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When we hear the word "multiculturalism," some imagine people of all races and creeds holding hands, others imagine a clash of disparate cultures that cannot co-exist. There are many more nuanced definitions in between.
In the world of mainstream politics, there is now widespread acknowledgment that the failure of immigrants to properly integrate into the culture of their host nations is causing a lot more harm that good. The backlash against multiculturalism has begun to manifest itself as a rise of nationalist parties such as England's UKIP and France's National Front gaining more support from disillusioned countrymen.
In 2010 German Chancellor Angela Merkel declared that,
" This [multicultural] approach has failed, utterly failed," Merkel told the meeting in Potsdam, west of Berlin, yesterday. "
Merkel also suggested that the onus was on immigrants to do more to integrate into German society, and late last year the European Court of Justice ruled that EU citizens who move to another member state "solely in order to obtain social assistance" may be excluded from receiving that assistance, an acknowledgement that multiculturalism's side effects are causing more harm than good.
Those interested in this topic should read Foreign Affairs' excellent article The Failure of Multiculturalism.
As a political tool, multiculturalism has functioned as not merely a response to diversity but also a means of constraining it. And that insight reveals a paradox. Multicultural policies accept as a given that societies are diverse, yet they implicitly assume that such diversity ends at the edges of minority communities. They seek to institutionalize diversity by putting people into ethnic and cultural boxes—into a singular, homogeneous Muslim community, for example—and defining their needs and rights accordingly. Such policies, in other words, have helped create the very divisions they were meant to manage.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:37PM
As my title says, I WANT to call it a no-brainer. But, I can't quite do that. It takes a LITTLE bit of brains to figure out that some aspects of some cultures are incompatible with some aspects of other cultures.
There is no culture on earth today that is "evil" or "wrong". People are intrinsically good, whether they be from the east, the west, the north or the south. I believe that - it doesn't matter what color you are, what language you speak, what costume you wear in your daily life, or even what name you call God by. You're probably a pretty decent person, much like myself.
But, your ancestry, your culture, you way of life developed in response to an environment different from mine. I cannot, will not, change my way of life to accomodate you, if you come to MY country. And, if the shoe is on the other foot, I cannot expect YOU to change your way of life if I should come to YOUR country.
If I move to some foreign, exotic land, I expect to eventually be assimilated into that culture. And, if you move to my home, I fully expect you to assimilate into my culture.
This multiculturalism nonsense is exactly that - NONSENSE.
If you come to America, you need to adopt the American culture - or, as some would say, our lack of culture. Adopt plastic restaurants, serving imitation foods which only contribute to your increasing obesity, totally devoid of nutrients. Adapt to our system of education, however sad that may be at this point in time. Learn our language, and don't expect us to learn yours.
Whatever value American culture has, it is the culture you are choosing to move into. Adopt it, or stay the fuck home. We don't need you, WHEREVER you are from!
“Take me to the Brig. I want to see the “real Marines”. – Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:42PM
Just meekly comply with whatever standards are in place wherever you go, and don't try to challenge anything.
Is that your motto? If it is, it sounds stupid to me.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:48PM
If you're the outsider, and you want to plant roots in that new place - yes, you accept whatever is there. End of story.
If you don't like conditions where you are going, then just don't go there. Find another place to put down roots. THAT MUCH is a fucking no-brainer!
“Take me to the Brig. I want to see the “real Marines”. – Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:09PM
You and I had nothing to do with the greatness or economic success (or lack thereof) of our native countries we were born into.
We have one life to do something with. Not one life to be passive and accept our lot, and then another life where we might be better positioned.
You seem to be like the Wal-Mart heirs who were born in the middle of a baseball game with the home team leading, 12-1, and thinking that they were the ones that ran up the score. No, they didn't do squat.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @09:35PM
I prefer the way Barry Switzer put it: "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." [wikiquote.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:25PM
My favorite bumper-sticker: "America, Love it or Give It Back." Loyalists and the UKIP making common racist cause? Sounds like Treason to me!
(Score: 2, Interesting) by azrael on Sunday May 24 2015, @05:57PM
Just like the settlers of the US that embraced the existing culture? The very culture you're so proud of is a homogenised one made up of the many many different cultures that jumped into the melting pot.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:17PM
You get half points for that observation. As I've pointed out in many discussions, on many forums, I am the product of marriages between Native Americans and European settlers. My wife is also a product of the same thing, and she actually qualifies as a tribes woman, if she should ever choose to join the tribe. My stepsons are more than 3/4 Indian.
You only get half points, because you forget all about those millions of us who have a heritage that predates the European invasion.
So - I stand by my words. It is suicide for today's culture to submit to the whims of every culture that desires to send colonists here.
“Take me to the Brig. I want to see the “real Marines”. – Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
(Score: 1) by azrael on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:09PM
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:16PM
You seem to presume that those other cultures are as accepting as you think that you are.
MEANWHILE - America's left-wingers are tolerant of anything and everything EXCEPT the already established culture in the US.
“Take me to the Brig. I want to see the “real Marines”. – Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
(Score: 3, Informative) by azrael on Sunday May 24 2015, @07:33PM
There's also too much assuming going on that those other cultures aren't aren't as accepting. There's a great line in this article [policy-network.net]:
There's a case that with a little wider discussion of the results of multiculturalism some of these inaccurate perceptions can be challenged and fears calmed. The cynical, however, might suggest that there are some who see an advantage in maintaining that ignorance.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @10:36PM
Is it possible to be muslim and still be loyal to another country? According to their book, no. Those who do not take islam first are not muslim
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 26 2015, @03:37AM
> Is it possible to be muslim and still be loyal to another country? According to their book, no. Those who do not take islam first are not muslim
You are correct. We also need to be aware that those who do not take Christianity first are not Christian.
"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other." Matthew 6:24
Similarly, the Apostle Paul wrote:
"Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ." Galatians 1:10
You just can't trust any of those religious fuckers, can you?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:56PM
> You seem to presume that those other cultures are as accepting as you think that you are.
Never mind that is not what he thinks, I just had to laugh at your tautological rebuttal - "you think what you think!" Damn straight he does!
> America's left-wingers are tolerant of anything and everything EXCEPT the already established culture in the US.
I know, right?
Being the majority is the hardest thing. Everybody is always beating you up. So mean!
Those left-wingers are nothing more than a bunch of meanies!!!
(Score: 2) by K_benzoate on Monday May 25 2015, @03:04AM
a live-and-let-live sense and growing together
That's exactly what I want our country to be. Do you accept that there are some cultures that have beliefs which make it impossible for them to act as such? How do you accommodate into your society a group which fundamentally hates some aspect of your culture and wants to change it to more resemble their view of the world? For example, what if some group didn't value freedom of speech when it came to their religion?
What is the multicultural compromise between our current system of near absolute free expression, and their system of restriction on speech which they consider blasphemous? SOMEONE is going to be unhappy no matter what you decide. So who gets their way? How would you adjudicate this?
I really do want an answer.
Climate change is real and primarily caused by human activity.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @03:10AM
Do you accept that there are some cultures that have beliefs which make it impossible for them to act as such?
No.
I accept that there are some individuals that have beliefs which make it impossible for them to act as such.
You are starting to look a hell of a lot like one of them advocating for this collective responsibility nonsense.
What is the multicultural compromise between our current system of near absolute free expression, and their system of restriction on speech which they consider blasphemous?
No compromise needed. Out of 1million+ muslims in the US, a handful have lost their shit. That's no different from any other group.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @08:42PM
Umm, hate to be so rude as to actually ask, but what tribes? Just saying "Indian" in the US, besides being colonialist, is itself multicultural.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:28PM
No it isn't. The 556 recognized tribes are not part of the US. They are sovereign nations that are protectorates of the US. They are by definition apart, reserved. Each one has their own government or coalition government. That is not multiculturalism but your statement is ignorant.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 25 2015, @08:23AM
That is not multiculturalism but your statement is ignorant.
Evidentally your reading comprehension is in need of some improvement. This is exactly what the FA is complaining about! All these various cultures that refuse to be assimilated! Of course, anyone who is actual a Native American has probably had more than enough experience with attempt to genocide (assimilate) their people. But this is why this particular AC asks the rather palefaced Runaway exactly what tribe he is descended from. Lots of USAians claim native blood, but without specifics, that is meaningless. And certainly no evidence that you are not a racist! So, particulars? Which tribe? What band? Who are your people? And please, don't say "Cherokee" unless you can be much more specific.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:00PM
so you're an "american", and any foreigner should comply with your standards, right?
I'm so glad your ancestors did this when they moved over from the old continent.
they must have been so happy to get to a land of lazy fat couch potato red skins.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:19PM
See my reply to Azrael. Why does everyone believe that every single European who came to this land was a murderous, raping, pillaging barbarian? Is that the kind of person who still lives in Europe, so you ASSume that European settlers are just like them?
“Take me to the Brig. I want to see the “real Marines”. – Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @06:38PM
> Why does everyone believe that every single European who came to this land was a murderous, raping, pillaging barbarian?
Why do you assume that every single muslim is a murderous, raping, pillaging barbarian? [soylentnews.org]
Or is hyperbole something only permitted to you?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by jmorris on Sunday May 24 2015, @09:24PM
There is no culture on earth today that is "evil" or "wrong".
Duckspoken like a double plus good good thinker. There is good and evil and that while there is debate about some of the details it is currently possible to reason out much of a moral code. Some cultures measure up better than others when compared to absolute standards of morality. Fucking children is wrong. There, I said it; I'm taking a boldly intolerant position on that. We can, should and must argue about the details and corner cases, age of consent laws, etc. but the idea of sex with children is right out and I think we can all agree that marrying a six year old is right over the damned line beyond any debate. So cultures that approve of that practice is evil. And when the infallible 'prophet' of a religion does it and current leaders can't imagine denouncing it, in fact is now trying it's best to restore the practice, we should question any who fail to condemn and certainly any who try to apologize and distract attention from such barbaric practices.
Or take NAMBLA, who has the motto of 'Sex before eight or it is too late.' This is a culture we can say with absolute certainty is vile, evil and must be exterminated from the Earth.
Ok, two very extreme examples but the cultural equivalence theory is a cherished fallacy of the Prog left and it must be demolished utterly. For by refusing to admit the existence of evil, it facilitates it and is thus itself evil.
People are intrinsically good...
Which is one of the basic disagreements in political philosophy. My side holds that man is inherently wicked, vile, and prone to commit atrocities, in short: fallen. Which is why we have religions, civilizations, rule of law, social customs and all that stuff to reign in our base impulses. The other side believes man in inherently good, removes all restraints and when Hell on Earth is unleashed makes excuses that it was done improperly, latent *ism was to blame, blah blah blah.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 24 2015, @10:03PM
People are intrinsically good...
Which is one of the basic disagreements in political philosophy. My side holds that man is inherently wicked, vile, and prone to commit atrocities
We see ourselves in others.
Or more colloquial, takes one to know one.
Seriously, you seem unapologetically vile, your posting history on this topic is one of someone just itching for a race war.