Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

Community Reviews
posted by Fnord666 on Tuesday October 10 2017, @01:36AM   Printer-friendly
from the swords-are-technology dept.

I have been reading The Japanese Sword Column and thought it may be of niche interest to other Soylentils. It is written by Paul Martin, a noted British expert of Japanese swords. From the introduction:

Along with cherry blossoms and Mount Fuji, the Japanese sword has become one of the enduring symbols of Japan. It has experienced centuries of warfare, evolved through Mongol invasions, survived the introduction of the musket, the end of the samurai era, modernization, and confiscation and destruction by the Allied forces following World War II. They are an anachronism in modern society, yet they continue to be made. They are an integral part of Japanese culture.
Today, I feel very fortunate that we have access to Japanese swords and can observe the artistry of blades that were previously only accessible by Japan's ancient military and social elites.

I particularly enjoyed the July 25th article, The Changes in the Shape of the Japanese Sword. The articles are short, update infrequently and have plenty of pictures of museum-quality swords. A good fit for those with a casual interest in the subject.


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Arik on Tuesday October 10 2017, @03:20AM (12 children)

    by Arik (4543) on Tuesday October 10 2017, @03:20AM (#579590) Journal
    Yes indeed, in fact as another poster already mentioned, it's worse than that. Firearms are in the same category as bows and spears and axes - they're useful tools that can be used for many things, sure you can kill someone, but you can also hunt for food or you can split wood or something else quite different. Swords are good for nothing else, by design. This is precisely why they came to be symbols of warrior classes or castes around the world, even though said warrior classes actually didn't actually fight with swords so very often. In battle they were sidearms, something you could pull out in an emergency after losing your main weapon.
    --
    If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +1  
       Informative=1, Total=1
    Extra 'Informative' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   3  
  • (Score: 2) by t-3 on Tuesday October 10 2017, @05:16AM (1 child)

    by t-3 (4907) on Tuesday October 10 2017, @05:16AM (#579645)

    To be fair, the axes, spears, and arrows used in combat were very different from their hunting-use counterparts. You wouldn't want to try chopping wood with a battleaxe, the blade is optimied for cutting armor and flesh.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Arik on Tuesday October 10 2017, @03:15PM

      by Arik (4543) on Tuesday October 10 2017, @03:15PM (#579842) Journal
      The blade on a made-for-battle axe is indeed different from a utility axe, and it's different mostly in one specific way. It's thinner which clearly implies lighter, and thus more wieldy.

      This change does mean they are no longer ideal for chopping wood - but you can still use them for that. You say "you wouldn't want to try chopping wood with a battleaxe" but in fact I've done it, it works just fine in a pinch.

      And of course many times the axe that appeared on the battlefield really was a woodsmans tool, not a specially built battle-axe.

      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
  • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Tuesday October 10 2017, @05:55AM (7 children)

    by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday October 10 2017, @05:55AM (#579659) Journal

    IIRC, the weapon of choice when hunting bears was a sword. Don't know what kind, but that also makes a sword a hunting weapon.

    --
    Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 10 2017, @10:57AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 10 2017, @10:57AM (#579723)

      Ref? I think mostly a spear was used.

      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday October 10 2017, @02:18PM

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday October 10 2017, @02:18PM (#579804) Journal

        Spears were the primary weapon ("boar spears"), short swords to close in and finish the animal.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday October 10 2017, @04:30PM (4 children)

      by Arik (4543) on Tuesday October 10 2017, @04:30PM (#579877) Journal
      "Boar swords" were a thing, used for a short period in a relatively small area so they don't appear to have been all that useful. But they did exist.

      They're kind of on the line of even being 'swords' though. They're spears for men who think they're too noble for a spear, relatively late along in the medieval period, and they're what you would get if you took a boar spear to a swordsmith and said "I want this, but all steel, no wood."

      They're more like steel spears than swords. And as spears, they aren't that great. Short and heavy and oddly balanced. Still, as a sword, they're worse. Sort of like a very thrust-centric late period rapier, only shorter. But not lighter.

      I don't think these things were really tools. They were status symbols, expensive toys for some rich man who was so obsessed with displaying his wealth he didn't want to touch wood.
      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
      • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Tuesday October 10 2017, @11:23PM (3 children)

        by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday October 10 2017, @11:23PM (#580152) Journal

        I didn't say "boar". I said "bear". I agree that I always heard of the weapons being used against boar as spears. (Whether they were heavy metal or not depends, among other things, on the time period.) If actual swords, even highly modified ones, were used against boar I didn't know about it.

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
        • (Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday October 11 2017, @12:42AM (2 children)

          by Arik (4543) on Wednesday October 11 2017, @12:42AM (#580185) Journal
          Well I was trying to give your assertion the benefit of the doubt, and a boar sword is as close as I can get.

          I've never heard of anyone using a sword to hunt bear outside of fantasy rpgs. Nor does it make any sense at all. Swords are typically optimized for use against unarmored or lightly armored humans. Bears are fearsome giants with natural armor tough enough to hold against weaker modern firearms. Slicing through that hide with a typical cut-and-thrust sword would be slow and tiring work, assuming a dead bear. A live one wouldn't stand there and let you try it. There are specialist swords that *could* work, like the boar sword, but it would be even less of a sane choice against a bear than a boar.
          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
          • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday October 11 2017, @05:04AM (1 child)

            by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 11 2017, @05:04AM (#580294) Journal

            Possibly I'm wrong... I know that that's what the thing I read said, but I don't know how accurate it was. (And I can't check since it just "something I read a decade ago".)

            OTOH, there's all sorts of "recent" history in the US where people ended up fighting a bear with a long knife, which was essentially a sort of sword. I believe both Daniel Boone and David Crockett reported doing so. Of course Davy Crockett was a liar and spinner of tall tales...so you can't really trust what he reports.

            --
            Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
            • (Score: 1) by Arik on Wednesday October 11 2017, @05:27AM

              by Arik (4543) on Wednesday October 11 2017, @05:27AM (#580301) Journal
              Winding up fighting the thing with your bowie after everything else failed? Yes, I could believe that's happened - very rarely. On the other hand it's just a great motif for storytelling so it probably made it's way into lots of tales while happening quite rarely. But as a deliberate plan? Going out with the idea you would use that knife in the 'hunting' phase rather than the later 'butchering' phase would be utter insanity. Simply mounting the bowie knife securely to a nice long spear-shaft would make it orders of magnitude more useful. Your best shot at taking down a bear with a blade like that would be to force it straight through the roof of the mouth, even with a decent spear that would be a feat, doing it with a knife would essentially mean you're already at wrestling distance from him - and most likely already dead or dying - before you're even close enough to try.
              --
              If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 10 2017, @02:04PM (1 child)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday October 10 2017, @02:04PM (#579794) Journal

    You do realize that swords predate any sidearm by thousands, and more likely, tens of thousands of years? Firearms are only about 500 or 600 years old, I believe. Hmmm - how 'bout 650 years?

    http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/technique/gun-timeline/ [pbs.org]
    1364 - First recorded use of a firearm.
    1380 - Hand guns are known across Europe.
    1400s - The matchlock gun appears.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Arik on Tuesday October 10 2017, @03:28PM

      by Arik (4543) on Tuesday October 10 2017, @03:28PM (#579847) Journal
      "Sidearm" != "Firearm"

      side·arm
      ˈsīdärm/
      noun
      noun: sidearm; plural noun: sidearms; noun: side-arm; plural noun: side-arms; noun: side arm; plural noun: side arms

          1.
          a weapon worn at a person's side, such as a pistol or other small firearm (or, formerly, a sword or bayonet).

      Swords were worn as sidearms for millenia before firearms were invented, and even for centuries after firearms were being used as the early versions were single-shot affairs with little power and considerable reload times, so the need for a sword (or similar melee weapon, long knife, hatchet, etc could fill the role) as sidearm was greater than ever. Firearms only started to be worn as sidearms after reliable repeating models developed, and even as late as the Phillipines-America war, at which point they were being issued revolvers as sidearms, it was commonly reported that they had emptied their weapons and been forced into melee without time to reload, and so the men often supplemented the official kit with a melee sidearm. A sword, if they were lucky enough to get their hands on one.

      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?