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SoylentNews Book Club - Discuss: The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Start Reading: Fiasco

posted by martyb on Wednesday February 13 2019, @01:22AM   
from the cell-ular-automaton dept.

takyon writes:

March: We Are Legion (We Are Bob) (Bobiverse #1) by Dennis Taylor

Discuss The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress by Robert A. Heinlein in the comments below.

Fiasco was translated into English in 1988 by Michael Kandel:

Fiasco (Polish: Fiasko) is a science fiction novel by Polish author Stanisław Lem, first published in a German translation in 1986. The book, published in Poland the following year, is a further elaboration of Lem's skepticism: in Lem's opinion, the difficulty in communication with alien civilizations is cultural disparity rather than spatial distance. The failure to communicate with an alien civilization is the main theme of the book.

Previously: Announcement post • Mars, Ho! • Foundation • The Three-Body Problem • Snow Crash

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Original Submission

• Re:It's well written and... Re:It's well written and... (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 13 2019, @03:12PM (1 child)

  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 13 2019, @03:12PM (#800608)

  Repeatedly? Granted it's been a while since I've read the entire Heinlein library, but I don't remember *any* other narratives that contain a "computer" that becomes self-aware other than TMIAHM. Please do enlighten me.

  Not the op, but Time Enough for Love had...

  *SPOILER* (click to show) *SPOILER* (click to hide)

  a planet-wide computer complex become a person, raised another computer from scratch and had a child-like AI on a ship. Minerva, the AI is explained to have come into being in part by being cared about and treated like a human. The other AI were treated the same way and had personality rather than just responsiveness (think something like the Star Trek TNG computer; smart but bland) which is the alternative RAH proposed. Time Enough also had various offshoots in multiple other novels RAH wrote in the later period of his life. I can't recall if Minerva was in any of the other books, but I believe her sister AI, whose name escapes me, made a small appearance in The Cat Who Walks Through Walls. I think it was in Cat Who Walks that they reference Mike as another computer that might need saving so his destruction doesn't really kill him. RAH never did write that event into his alternative history, it was just sort of thrown out there, which is why its vague in my memory.

  So I'd say yes, there is at least some reason to say other RAH novels had similar concepts. Many people seem to either only like the early period or late period RAH. If you didn't care for his later works (approximately starting with I Will Fear No Evil), then I wouldn't expect you'd recall any of these.

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• Re:It's well written and... (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday February 13 2019, @04:50PM

  by NotSanguine (285) <{NotSanguine} {at} {SoylentNews.Org}> on Wednesday February 13 2019, @04:50PM (#800633) Homepage Journal

  So I'd say yes, there is at least some reason to say other RAH novels had similar concepts. Many people seem to either only like the early period or late period RAH. If you didn't care for his later works (approximately starting with I Will Fear No Evil), then I wouldn't expect you'd recall any of these.

  A fair point. As I said, it's been a while since I read the entire Heinlein library (and yes, I have done so). From the really early stuff (e.g., Lifeline, Magic, Inc., etc.) to the "juvenile" novels (e.g., The Rolling Stones, Podkayne of Mars, etc.), through the more esoteric stuff (e.g., Stranger In A Strange Land, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, Assignment in Eternity, I will Fear No Evil, etc.), along with the "Future History" stories (which, of course, are culled from his work and collected, along with If This Goes On..., Coventry and Methuselah's Children). Heinlein then continues along with the "Lazarus Long" thread in Time Enough For Love and To Sail Beyond The Sunset. Heinlein used a variety of styles and storytelling modes (cf. Glory Road) and, as such, it's difficult to classify him based on just a few of his works.

  The thing that binds all of Heinlein's work, IMHO, is the quality of writing and his primary focus on relationships rather than technology. The science/technology generally enables the situations where the relationships play out (in the case of TMIAHM, the cultures of Luna colony, its relationships with Earth, and the desire for liberty and self-determination).

  Back to Time Enough For Love and, IIRC, The "Minerva" personality is designed and implemented as a full-fledged AI that manages affairs (and not just technical stuff) for an entire planet prior to moving to a new planet (and a human body) with the Howard Families.

  This is significantly different from Mycroft, who attains consciousness through sheer comp[uting power and external inputs. As such, I don't consider the two to be analogous.

  Regardless, OP said [soylentnews.org]:

  Heinlein repeatedly has computers "come alive" via, essentially, magic.

  Twice (and in completely different ways/contexts) doesn't add up to "repeatedly" in my book.

  --
  No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr

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