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Mars, Ho! Chapter Fourteen

Posted by mcgrew on Wednesday March 12 2014, @04:50PM (#181)
2 Comments
Science

Chapter One
Previously...

Fusion
      As I was floating back to the pilot room, Tammy was waiting outside her quarters, hanging from the doorway with one hand. "Is Destiny OK?" she said with a worried tone.
      "She will be," I said. "A little anoxia." They'd warned us about anoxia in Captain's training and I'd seen it before. "She's in the infirmary getting oxygen. You can see her if you want but she was still unconscious when the robot took her."
      "Thanks. I would have thought you'd have stayed with her."
      "God knows I'd like nothing better, but I have to make sure we get to Mars alive. We're off course and I have to inspect the ship to make sure it isn't about to blow up or anything. Look, I gotta go," I said as I continued to the pilot room.
      We were even farther off course than I'd feared. Now it was a matter of juggling speed and fuel usage to the company's specifications.
      Back in the old days, way before my time, these boats weren't so automated. Crews were human rather than robot, and the Captain had to calculate all this stuff by hand, with their primitive computers helping.
      Captains had to go to college back then, and some of the crew, too. The Captain had to figure out all that shit almost by hand; he needed to know calculus. Hell, I ain't even took algebra even though I could have in high school.
      I made the adjustments the computer read out, and we had gravity again and were going the right way. I didn't look at what gravity was, and it was hard to tell since we'd been so heavy before weightlessness.
      The empty crew's quarters were first, then cargo pens. I wondered why they call them that.
      "Who is it?" a voice said at my knock. Presumably Kathy, which was the name on the doorplate.
      "Captain Knolls. Ship inspection, you girls should be used to this by now."
      "Yeah? You should be used to us telling you to fuck off, too."
      "Door, open. I can lock you up any time I want, you know. I don't even need no excuse."
      "I ain't got no drops, bitch."
      I suddenly realized why they called them "pens". They were designed to house any species of animal, and a word Destiny had teased me for using came to mind.
      Feral. From what I'd read of Tammy's book, some of these whores were more animal than human, especially when they didn't get their drops. It had driven Billie wild enough that she'd wound up blowing her quarters up, with her in it.
      I sighed. "I hope you're lying. From what I found out I'm better off when you have them."
      "Well, cough 'em up, Joe!"
      I laughed, and replied "I ain't got no drops, bitch!"
      I did wonder why they hadn't run out. Where were they getting them? They shouldn't have been able to get them onto the boat in the first place.
      Billie's quarters were next. She, along with some fifty odd fellow cargo were confined for the duration. Of course, I just opened the door and entered, taser in hand. This would have been a "brig" back when Captains had diplomas.
      The robots had done a good job, but they always did. Except for making coffee. They suck at that. But you couldn't tell that she'd almost burned to death. Well, except that her hair was really short and frizzly.
      "Inspection."
      "I ain't got no drops, bitch."
      "Whatever," I sighed, and inspected the quarters. It was obvious she was lying, her eyes gave her away. I wondered again where the drops were coming from.
      After hearing "I ain't got no drops, bitch" so many times I didn't even hear it any more I went to inspect the infirmary, the one part of the inspection I looked forward to. I wanted to see how Destiny was.
      Tammy was sitting there talking with her. "John!" Destiny said. "Tammy told me you saved my life."
      I blushed, and grinned sheepishly. "It's my job."
      Tammy laughed. "Bullshit, any other 'cargo' wouldn't have made it. Destiny almost died, and she would have if you weren't moving so frantically. God but you're fast!"
      Destiny pulled me close and kissed me. "Thanks, Johnnie," she whispered, then said in a normal voice "go ahead and finish your inspection, I should be able to go home in half an hour. I'll meet you there."
      I walked back to the starboard generator and wondered why in the hell I had to do this. I mean, I don't know anything about a fusion generator. There was a stairway to get there, as the generators and engines were on the "bottom" of the boat. It was the "bottom" because the ion engines pushing against the ship pushed everything else the other way. Something about "three laws of thermoses" or something but I think I was hung over that morning's training and don't really remember. Something about actions and opposite reactions or something.
      I went over the checklist and checked the first engine. These things were huge and there were a lot of them. A hell of a lot of electricity went through those things.
      I had two more engines to go when an alarm went off. "Damned whores, not now!" I thought.
      But it wasn't the whores, it was the port generator and I couldn't get in; the computer said it was an inferno in there. Hell, that damned thing should have shut down automatically. I pulled the breaker and there was a sort of thump. Damn. Another trip to the pilot room, we were going to be off course again.
      It would have to cool before the robots could start repairing it, if it was repairable at all. Damn, if the other generator went out...
      I called Destiny. "Honey, I'm really sorry but this is going to take a while."

Continues.

I'm on a roll this morning. Besides this chapter I've started on a foreword; as I write this thing new ideas pop into my head and the foreword will be sort of a teaser you'll think of when you see the surprise at the end (hey, I have to give some sort of clue).

Someone said my web site was ugly so I added a <style> tag and filled out the <body> tag. Happy now?

Yesterday was beautiful and all I did was get a haircut, take Leila to lunch and spent the afternoon in Felbers' beer garden. Spring fever?

Now it's snowing. I'm staying inside today.

Mars, Ho! Chapter Thirteen

Posted by mcgrew on Tuesday March 11 2014, @02:41PM (#176)
0 Comments
Science

Chapter One
Previously...

Oxygen
      The cargo hold door was open. That wasn't right, that door should always be closed. I went in, scared to death about Destiny, straight for the airlock.
      The outside hatch of the airlock was open, which meant somebody was outside the boat. That relieved me a little, I'd worried one of the whores had thrown her out the airlock without a suit. But the open hatch said that thankfully hadn't happened.
      It also said that I wasn't getting outside here. Thankfully there were three airlocks that doubled as boat docks. One was for the Captain's houseboat connected to the pilot's room, and the other two were at opposite ends of the ship. Sometimes dozens of ships coupled like this traveled together. It's supposed to be cheaper that way for big loads.
      I flew as fast as I could to the other wing, put on a suit and went through the other docking airlock, closing it behind me.
      The climb on the skyscraper-like boat was a lot easier without gravity. It was probably stupid of me but I was in a hurry to get to Destiny, who was probably dying by now so I didn't bother with tethers, I just moved as fast as I could. My God but this woman was my life! The thought of losing her... I climbed faster.
      I kept trying to call her on the suit radio, knowing it was useless. Her radio probably wasn't even turned on or she would have tried to call me rather than following me out.
      I finally made it around to the airlock she'd left open and saw her floating about six or so meters from the boat. I hooked two tethers to a rung next to the airlock and one to my suit and pushed off towards her. She wasn't moving and that worried the hell out of me, if she was conscious she'd be thrashing around in a panic. She was obviously out of air.
      You would think climbing a tether without gravity pulling at you would be easy. You'd be wrong.
      There's no gravity but there's still mass. There was the mass of two humans and two suits, which weren't all that light. I climbed the tether to the lock and pulled her in behind me.
      Finally inside the airlock I shed my gloves and her helmet. She took a big gasp of air - she was alive! I got our suits off as the medical robot wheeled her away with an oxygen mask on her face.
      I floated back to the pilot room to make the course correction. The ship's inspection would be a little late today.
      I should have inspected the ship first.

Continues.

Someone bought http://www.li694-22.org/ :D

Posted by Yog-Yogguth on Tuesday March 11 2014, @12:36PM (#174)
10 Comments
Soylent

As many might know SoylentNews resides on http://li694-22.members.linode.com/¹ and because of this some people were talking and joking about using li694-22 as a new name. It's a cool name, I was tempted myself! Perhaps an even "weirder" inside joke than http//:/..org :)

No need to be tempted any more; a Mr. Watt (not me!) of Washington bought it and pointed it at SoylentNews¹ :)

¹ naturally your cookies are in different jars

Edit: just to practice safe surfing don't log in through redirection or move your cookies manually or anything like that. Not that I would think anything bad would happen in this case but one would never know until it was too late (maybe Mr. Watt suddenly develops an appetite for collecting low UID accounts).

A weird sale and... rentals?

Posted by mcgrew on Sunday March 09 2014, @06:37PM (#164)
0 Comments
News

For those of you new to my writing, I like to write while sitting in a bar stool and my favorite bar is a little redneck place in the ghetto. It's always full of interesting characters, most of whom I know well, and there are all kinds of folks. It's mostly construction workers but the crowd ranges the gamut from homeless crackheads to successful business people, from age 21 to quite elderly, from illiterate to college-educated.

Most of Nobots was written there. I left a signed copy in the bar for anyone to read with the admonition that it was not to leave the bar. Several folks wanted to read it, but not sitting in a bar stool. So I donated a second, unmarked copy for loaning out.

Heather, one of the patrons there, had been nagging me to loan her a copy and I kept forgetting to bring one. So I finally remembered, but she wasn't there so I loaned it to Art. Art is a bookworm, a little older than me who likes sitting in the beer garden with a book when the weather's nice. But it's a little dark inside for reading.

The next time I saw Heather she nagged again, and I told her I'd loaned it to Art. The next time I was in there, Art had left it with the bartender and Heather came up. "You got that book?" She demanded. "Ask Ruthie," I said. "It's behind the bar."

So yesterday a guy texted me (in code, of course) that he had some weed and did I want some? So I texted back "2@4" meaning two bags at four o'clock. I started the car about two or so; it was damned cold yesterday. It's been damned cold all winter. Yesterday it only got to 17F (minus eight point three in celcius). So I let the car warm up or I'd have hypothermia before I got there.

I walked inside from the parking lot and was snowblind when I went in. I couldn't tell who anybody was, just made out vague figures. A stool looked open, no drink in front of it so I sat down, still uable to see well. It was really bright outside and like I said, you'd have a hard time reading paper in there. Rachel, a co-owner, was tending bar and got be a beer. Damn it, their draft cooler had gone out a week ago so it was just bottles and cans, more expensive than draft.

My eyes finally dialated enough to see. There was a young guy I'd never seen before to my right, the woman to my left I could finally see was Jeri Lynn, and man was she loaded! I'd never seen her so messed up. Drunk as a skunk and sporting cocaine eyes. I think she was trying to seduce me, but she was way too loaded and I was way too sober; she's not bad looking but nobody looks good when they're shitfaced.

KY and a few other folks at one end of the bar waved. A woman I didn't recognize at first walked up - I dated her several years ago until I found out she was married to some rich guy, and there was no way I was going to put her kids through what my kids went through. Embarrisingly, I can't remember her name.

We chatted and reminisced about our short-lived romance. I mentioned that I almost didn't recognize her because she'd cut her hair short. She said "it went gray, too. That's why I cut it."

Damned if she wasn't hitting on me, too. Was I wearing a George Clooney mask or something?

She asked what I'd been doing, and I told her I'd written Nobots and had retired last week. She wanted to buy a copy, and I refused to sell her one. However, the loaner book was behind the bar so I got it from Rachel and told her it was a gift. She protested.

"Look," I said, "When we were dating you would never let me pay. You bought me beer, food, carriage rides, and this is just a little thank-you." She bought me a beer and I went back to my stool. Heather came up before I sat down. "I loved your book!" she exclaimed, and gave me a big hug. Man, the women must have all had some really thick beer goggles on.

Billy, sitting at the far end of the bar by the front door, motioned me over. "Hey, I got some hash if you want some." I declined, the price was ridiculously low so the quality surely would as well. And I had some coming around shift change when the bartenders would be too busy to notice.

Art was sitting next to him. "That book was sure different," he said, and grinned. To us like we are to australopithecus!" He stuck a folded up piece of paper in my pocket. I looked at it when I sat down - there was a small bud wrapped up in it.

My former girlfriend came over to say goodbyes and tried to give me her new phone number. She threw a twenty on the bar in front of me and hurried out. The guy I'd been waiting for finally showed up and slipped me a coupld of bags, and I slipped him a couple of twenties.

I went home in a very good mood. Some things are far better than money!

I typed that out a week or two ago and waited until I had what was written of Mars, Ho! posted. I'll probably write a new chapter of that in a day or two.

I ran across another snag with The Paxil Diaries this morning. I got the covers acceptable and went to upload it to Lulu, but I'd formatted it to A5 and they don't have that in hardcover, only American Standatd size (which I abbreviate as ASS) and an even more rediculously big book. The only books on my bookshelf that big and bigger are monsters like the entire Lord or the Rings trilogy.

And I'm very unsatisfied with their prices. I got a postcard, actual dead tree delivered by the USPS from a printer in St. Louis. Their prices were good but what the price listed was perfect bound softcover and I'd been looking for hardcover. So I stuck it in a fat science fiction anthology I've been reading that someone gave me.

So I was at Lulu's site getting ready to upload Paxil and damn, that sucks. Well, lets see, perfect bound?

Ridiculously expensive. So I'll reformat the damned thing to ASS and call the lady at mirabooksmart, the St Louis place, tomorrow.

No promises, but you may be able to get a soft cover Nobots for ten or fifteen bucks in a while, and maybe a really cheap pocket book most people read and pass along.

The next Mars, Ho! chapter has been making my brain itch, so like I said it will be soon.

Oh, BTW, this is another Soylent exclusive.

Thoughts on flight MH370 (Boeing 777)

Posted by Yog-Yogguth on Sunday March 09 2014, @04:51AM (#162)
0 Comments
/dev/random

Since I've moderated and can't be bothered to log out I'll write some thoughts here for my own interest. By no means is this meant to be any kind of complete answer or anything of the sort, just some idle thoughts/speculation.

0.a. It is an entirely unknown failure mode that is sudden and immediately cripples everything. Very unlikely.
0.b. It is an entirely unknown phenomenon that is sudden and immediately cripples everything. Extremely unlikely but not zero.
0.c. A confluence of simultaneous and lasting shoddy operation and systems malfunction in two culturally different countries (Malaysia and Viet Nam). This one is hard to judge; I wouldn't think so on behalf of Viet Nam but they hadn't yet taken airspace control/responsibility for the plane and might not have paid much if any attention to it. Malaysia is fully able to fuck anything up beyond rational belief (*cough* bigoted apartheid-style legislation on the use of a word *cough*) but even so Viet Nam should still have the radar records and be fully able to find anything if there in fact was a more normal disaster.

I guess the simplest ad hoc would be 0.b. with some kind of unusual simultaneous failure of radar range for whatever reason: the signal would then simply disappear giving no clues about anything. If this was caused by some freak meteorological event local to the aircraft it might explain the total lack of everything except debris which might be found later. It might not have to last all that long if the electronics in the plane are knocked out before any remaining related blips on now-functioning radars disappear among the noise. Still extremely unlikely. Inverted clear sky sprite plasma bolts (no such thing is known to exist) or time-space warp bubbles (sorry no link to the paper handy and no such thing is known to exist) or alians!!1 (etc.) or whatever, but who knows.

1. Whether or not some terrorist organization claims responsibility doesn't mean much. Some YKW (You Know Who) organizations claim just about everything or are created solely to claim credit for anything new (like happened for the attacks in Oslo before those claims were discredited) and all it takes for the opposite to happen are a few things:
1.a.1. Whoever did it has discovered and understood the meaning of tactics, and the incident while public in nature is also long term in nature (there are several possibilities here, I'm not comfortable with spelling it out). Somewhat likely.
1.a.2. Whoever responsible simply (and without any deeper thought) doesn't want to draw attention to something that is still ongoing. Fairly likely.

and

1.b.1. For whatever reason(s) the incident fails to trigger knee-jerk claims. Doing something to a flight from a YKW nation to China should naturally avoid most if not all such attention because China is kind of outside the horizon of most YKW despite the recent YKW attacks both in Beijing and western China. Not too unlikely.
1.b.2. Someone figured it was stupid and counterproductive to make bullshit claims and has the clout to stop those who still don't get it. Very unlikely but not impossible.

For a 1.a.2. that passes 1.b.1 it seems very likely that some YKW "Chinese" did this to simply kill as many Chinese as possible. Such YKW "Chinese" aren't known to be big on making public statements of responsibility, in fact they seldom say anything at all (probably it makes them very easy to catch and kill) so that fits.

Oil slicks don't mean much on their own but are often the first thing spotted. If nothing else is spotted (lots of debris floats for a fairly long time) then 0.b. increases.

Sometimes there isn't an answer.

Mars, Ho! Chapter Twelve

Posted by mcgrew on Saturday March 08 2014, @02:44PM (#159)
0 Comments
Science

Chapter One
Previously...

Meteors
      The damned alarm woke me up. Damn them whores... but it wasn't whores, it was a meteor shower. Fuck. I went to the pilot room.
      The meteors were tiny but when you're going fast, well, when a meteor shower is coming you want to slow down.
      Or speed up. Usually it was slow down but not this time. I spoke into the fone. "Attention, passengers and cargo. Prepare for higher gravity in ten seconds." Ten seconds later I gradually added thrust. We were almost at Earth-normal now, and man it was not the least bit comfortable. I felt like I weighed a ton.
      After these long interplanetary trips it was customary to spend a month or more in a gradually faster centrifuge until 1.3 normal. After a few days of this, Earth felt pretty good.
      Right now it wasn't too comfortable, but we had to outrun those rocks. We'd be at .85G for the next hour. It looked like I was going to be up early today, I had inspection in two hours. I was glad we'd gone to bed early instead of drinking, this would have been hell with a hangover. I went to my quarters and made coffee, wishing again that robots could make decent coffee.
      I flipped on the video and saw the last quarter of the zero-G football semifinals. That's one hell of a sport. Too bad Memphis lost.
      I was wishing we were back to half gravity again, just sitting here was tiring. When the game was over I headed back to the pilot room.
      I couldn't get in, over fifty angry whores were blocking the hallway. "You're all going to be confined if you don't let me through."
      One of them laughed. "You and whose army? You think you can take us all on?"
      I pulled out my taser. Most of them laughed. "Go inspect your boat, Joe." I don't know why the whores call me that, they know my name. The woman continued. "This full gravity is great, Joe, and we ain't givin' it up!"
      "Look," I said, "this acceleration is going to need a course correction. I have to get in that pilot room!"
      "Fuck off, Joe." Scattered giggling from the whores. I turned around and slunk off to the cargo area. I sure wasn't looking forward to this.
      Damn but the cargo area was a lot longer off than at half G. I finally got there, suited up, and went through the airlock.
      My God but I was scared. With the boat's acceleration it was like hanging from the side of a skyscraper. With weights on you. In a space suit with clumsy gloves.
      I hooked the A tether to the highest rung I could reach and climbed. When the tether was below me I hooked the B tether above and unhooked the A tether.
      I don't know how long it took me to get to the houseboat. I had to stop and rest a few times. I was sweating so hard I was afraid I'd drown in my suit.
      I finally got there, went inside, and pressurized it. I took off the suit and went through the dock into the pilot room, pulling the suit in behind me. I was soaked in sweat, I wouldn't have been wetter if I'd been caught in a thunderstorm on Earth.
      All my muscles ached, on fire. Them whores was going to be floating in a minute, I was really pissed off. I strapped into the pilot chair and killed the thrusters. The asteroid threat had long since passed and we'd been at high G way too long. Damn, our trajectory was way off.
      Well, I'd fix that later. Right now I had a bunch of whores to lock up, and I wasn't about to be gentle. I was hurting like hell from the climb, I stunk, I was really pissed off at those damned whores and almost hoped they'd give me an excuse to tase them.
      I was also looking forward to a shower. I was nasty.
      I checked the monitor - they were all still outside the pilot room, floating, guarding it from me, ignorant of how the houseboat was docked to the ship. I wonder what went through their heads when we started floating?
      I pulled out my taser and went outside. "All of you worthless bitches, hands behind your backs or God damn it I'm going to tase the shit out of you!"
      This time they complied. It took half an hour to get them all cuffed and another half hour to get them to their rooms. I stopped by my quarters to make sure Destiny was OK.
      She wasn't there. I knocked on Tammy's door. She opened it and said "You're probably looking for Destiny."
      "Yeah, you seen her?"
      "She was worried about you. She was heading toward the cargo bay right before we lost gravity."
      Holy hell, I hoped she hadn't gone outside the boat to find me. If she did, she was probably dead, or would be soon.
      I kicked off as hard as I could towards the cargo hold, flying as fast as I could.

This is a crude, rough draft of an upcoming book that is less than 10% finished.

This chapter is a Soylent's Fiction exclusive for a few days or so. It continues.

Mars, Ho! Chapter Eleven

Posted by mcgrew on Friday March 07 2014, @03:04PM (#154)
2 Comments
Science

Chapter One
Previously...

Addiction
      I woke up before her for once. I took a shit... hey, you wanted everything, right? Started the coffee because the robots really suck at making coffee, and got dressed. I was just taking my first sip when the doorbell rang. It was Tammy.
      "Hi, uh Destiny invited me for coffee."
      "Come in. She's still asleep, I'll get you a cup."
      "Thanks."
      "Uh," I said, handing her a cup, "Destiny says you're a psychologist and a, uh I forgot. You're not a whore, you're studying them.."
      "Did destiny tell you that?"
      "She didn't have to. I ain't went to college but I ain't stupid, I can add two and two and get something between three and five. It's obvious."
      "Is it?"
      "Yeah, I wondered how you got the money for a ticket, but shit, you got two doctorates. You ain't gotta look for work."
      "Nope. Want to know about my studies?"
      "Huh?"
      "Jesus, you're a dumbass. I'm studying drug abuse and prostitution and you have two hundred drug addicted whores on board! Do you want an education, dumbass?"
      I felt like a dumbass. "Yeah, I guess it might help."
      "Here," she said, giving me a small memory chip.
      "What's this?"
      "Just read it. Don't worry, anything you don't understand I can explain."
      Shit, I hate reading. That's one thing where me and Destiny are different, she loves reading. "Well, you had me fooled when I met you."
      She laughed. "I study them, you don't know them at all. Don't let them know they're being studied or the study will be ruined."
      "I'm discrete. Guess I have some studying to do."
      "It'll save you a whole lot of trouble. I have some studying to do myself," Tammy said. "Tell Destiny to drop by when she wakes up. I'll be in the commons."
      I put the chip in the tablet and started reading.
      After reading for an hour and a half I had to put the tablet down. I was in trouble. No wonder they was paying me so good.
      Most of these girls were abused and sexually molested as children, most of them raised in foster care. Many and maybe most were children of criminal parents; thieves, often very violent. They were the kids society allowed to be ruined for life.
      It was sad. Most of them were droppers. There's a chemical name for drops in Tammy's book but I'd have to look it up.
      These girls hated sex, having a normal sex life was ruined in their childhoods when they were molested and abused. But drops made the whores enjoy getting fucked. Most of them had never had an enjoyable sexual experience until they put a drop in an eye before work.
      There were other psychoaffective (and yeah, I had to look that and lots of other shit up when I read that damned book) stuff. Her book had a lot of other big words like neurotransmitters and I just kind of glossed over them, I ain't went to college or nothing.
      I gathered the whores just stayed really fucked up.
      And the drug was highly addictive physically as well as in worse ways. It made the user the opposite of pissed off when under the influence. When that was taken away, well... it ain't pretty.
      "Damn," I thought, "Addiction must be a bitch" as I got another cup of coffee.
      It seemed I was in for serious trouble.

This is a crude, rough draft of an upcoming book that is less than 10% finished. This is the last of the chapters that were posted at slashdot, and in fact has a little added to the end.

I just "finished" tomorrow's chapter, which will be a Soylent's Fiction exclusive for a few days or so. Continues.

Staff IRC Transcript, Part 3

Posted by NCommander on Friday March 07 2014, @01:49AM (#151)
0 Comments
Soylent
Mar 05 01:06:29 <paulej72>    And I need dinner
Mar 05 01:06:40 <MrBluze>    ok shall we call this whole thing paused until next round?
Mar 05 01:06:43 <mattie_p>    kobach and pork
Mar 05 01:06:49 <paulej72>    should I leave or should i go now?
Mar 05 01:06:53 <cosurgi>    LaminatorX: topic for you.
Mar 05 01:07:18 <LaminatorX>    I'll be away for a few hours, but will check in later.
Mar 05 01:07:18 <MrBluze>    i need to go do some actual work
Mar 05 01:07:40 <LaminatorX>    Quick, cosy rig?
Mar 05 01:07:48 <Barrabas>    cosurgi: NCommander can add you to the project himself. I'm taking a break :-)
Mar 05 01:08:03 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: ok :)
Mar 05 01:08:29 <cosurgi>    LaminatorX: ?
Mar 05 01:08:32 <LaminatorX>    Autocorrect on my ipad is not kind to anagrams.
Mar 05 01:08:51 <cosurgi>    ahh :)) what about "quick"?
Mar 05 01:09:21 <LaminatorX>    Your topic, is it something quick?
Mar 05 01:09:45 <cosurgi>    LaminatorX: no. it's a full log of revolution that happened in last 3 hours. Starting at 21:47
Mar 05 01:10:05 <LaminatorX>    Email my nick at gmail, or we can catch up later. I need to go.
Mar 05 01:10:31 <kobach>    mattie_p: yes, chorizo specifically
Mar 05 01:10:31 <cosurgi>    ok. simply - if you need a log, just ping me.
Mar 05 01:10:33 <LaminatorX>    Thank you.
Mar 05 01:10:45 *    LaminatorX has quit (Client Quit)
Mar 05 01:10:57 <cosurgi>    ok, I need to sleep now.
Mar 05 01:10:57 *    rdavis (~robind@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/robind) has joined #staff
Mar 05 01:10:57 *    buttercake gives channel operator status to rdavis
Mar 05 01:11:17 <cosurgi>    so goodnight. I set my status to /away, but don't fret if I got disconnected, because my university network is real crap right now (can't `ping 8.8.8.8` !!!).
Mar 05 01:12:43 <kobach>    goodnight
Mar 05 01:14:09 *    robinld has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
Mar 05 01:14:43 <paulej72>    time to go get food. bbl.
Mar 05 01:14:59 <MrBluze>    time to earn my daily bread bbl
Mar 05 01:15:00 *    paulej72 has quit (Quit: paulej72)
Mar 05 01:15:04 *    kobach is sitting here happily chewing away
Mar 05 01:20:24 <mrcoolbp>    audioguy: I'd like to get started with the slashcott idea asap
Mar 05 01:20:42 <mrcoolbp>    we are concurrently working on the mailing list thing but I think this would be huge
Mar 05 01:20:54 <Landon>    mrcoolbp: slashcott idea?
Mar 05 01:21:06 <Landon>    ohh, the staff slash thing?
Mar 05 01:21:13 <mrcoolbp>    yes
Mar 05 01:21:18 <audioguy>    mrcool - which one ? ;-)
Mar 05 01:21:23 <mrcoolbp>    staff slash
Mar 05 01:21:34 <audioguy>    oh, ok.
Mar 05 01:21:44 <mrcoolbp>    how do we get that so it is only vieable by staff?
Mar 05 01:22:03 <mrcoolbp>    we can discuss there, then bring thing before the community on Soylent
Mar 05 01:22:09 <mrcoolbp>    that's how I see things working
Mar 05 01:22:09 <audioguy>    Yes, what I was hoping to do is to try putting some of the stuff we will need to do that in place.
Mar 05 01:22:30 <mrcoolbp>    I see the mailing list as a temporary measure, but I'm not in charge
Mar 05 01:22:32 <mrcoolbp>    = )
Mar 05 01:22:34 <audioguy>    That part is easy, just password proect it
Mar 05 01:22:41 <mrcoolbp>    I'd like to pursue this asap
Mar 05 01:22:45 <mrcoolbp>    can we get that going?
Mar 05 01:23:01 <xlefay>    mrcoolbp: the mailing list is actually something that's intended to be actually used when the server freeze is over it'll be on SN servers afaik
Mar 05 01:23:04 <audioguy>    Yes, we need an archival thing, I am certain of that.
Mar 05 01:23:32 <audioguy>    There are some minor technical things in the way of that right now:
Mar 05 01:23:39 <xlefay>    Archiving is something that's built into mailman
Mar 05 01:23:41 *    mrcoolbp is not aware of the implication of the words xlefay just typed.....
Mar 05 01:23:50 <mrcoolbp>    server freeze?
Mar 05 01:24:15 <xlefay>    No new services on SN servers till the CentOS vs. Ubuntu (Sysops vs. Dev) situation is fixed.. perhaps it is but not quite sure
Mar 05 01:24:42 <Barrabas>    mrcoolbp: Put an apache password in the .htaccess of the dir.
Mar 05 01:24:43 <audioguy>    I cannot create new topics easily, because the admin topic interface is broken. I want that fixed, as doing it by modifying the db is not a good way.
Mar 05 01:25:04 <mrcoolbp>    Barrabas: thanks, I think that is the solution
Mar 05 01:25:16 <audioguy>    Barabbas is entirely correct, it is a 5 minute job.
Mar 05 01:25:20 <mrcoolbp>    audioguy, can we do that?
Mar 05 01:25:30 <mrcoolbp>    get started testing it out so to speak?
Mar 05 01:25:35 <mrcoolbp>    i don't know.
Mar 05 01:25:49 <audioguy>    I could do it right now if I knew for sure I had the authority to do that. ;-)
Mar 05 01:25:50 <mrcoolbp>    we need a system for verifying staff etc
Mar 05 01:26:11 <mrcoolbp>    the slashcott is a test server that we are using actively to develop?
Mar 05 01:26:25 <mrcoolbp>    or just a thing we were messing around with unoficcially?
Mar 05 01:26:26 <Barrabas>    audioguy: Get NCommander's OK and I'll give you a login and PW.
Mar 05 01:26:56 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander is out for work I believe....
Mar 05 01:26:56 <audioguy>    The slashcott server was set up for development, mostly by paul amd me, of html and css stuff.
Mar 05 01:27:06 <Barrabas>    audioguy: Strike that, I'll give him root access and let him handle it.
Mar 05 01:27:16 <audioguy>    I already have root on thast machine, could not di the work else
Mar 05 01:27:17 <mrcoolbp>    Barrabas: that is probably a better optoin
Mar 05 01:27:44 <audioguy>    Root to mrbp?
Mar 05 01:28:27 <audioguy>    I want to make sure NCommader knows and pul, what we are up to.
Mar 05 01:28:36 <audioguy>    and paulj
Mar 05 01:28:44 <mrcoolbp>    audioguy: there's no rush right this second, but I for one, would like to try to move forward with this idea in some way. Let's keep it in mind for now and we can talk later?
Mar 05 01:29:26 <mrcoolbp>    I think it will allow us to organize, I could be wrong......
Mar 05 01:29:27 <audioguy>    Yes, just do not feel comfortable doing that without others clearly on board.
Mar 05 01:29:31 <mrcoolbp>    oh totally
Mar 05 01:29:43 <audioguy>    I want it as much as you do, believe me. ;-)
Mar 05 01:30:11 <Barrabas>    Well, have NCommander E-mail me if he needs the keys to anything. I'm going back to AI (love that field!).
Mar 05 01:30:18 *    Barrabas has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0/20140127194636])
Mar 05 01:30:23 <audioguy>    OK.
Mar 05 01:30:24 <mrcoolbp>    and he was gone.....
Mar 05 01:31:15 <mrcoolbp>    Audioguy: I know I love the idea, and that is my current reccomendation for imroving communication
Mar 05 01:31:30 <mrcoolbp>    I'm thinking we need to literally test it out as a means
Mar 05 01:31:37 <mrcoolbp>    before we can go ahead with it
Mar 05 01:31:48 <mrcoolbp>    seems trivial but I think that's the next step
Mar 05 01:31:58 <mrcoolbp>    let me know after you talk to the guys
Mar 05 01:32:07 <audioguy>    Before being interrupted by the meeting, I was going to test some javascript, then go through all the admin interface and send NCommander a report on what needs to go and stay, etc. So we could do that, and start making fixes.
Mar 05 01:32:08 <mattie_p>    audioguy, assume you have the authority and just do it
Mar 05 01:32:42 <mattie_p>    catching up...
Mar 05 01:32:50 <mattie_p>    slashcott is on CentOS, I heard
Mar 05 01:33:05 <mattie_p>    will need to be ported to ubuntu
Mar 05 01:33:14 <audioguy>    mattie, it is common courtesy. Paul is having others test test, and they need to be able to get in the site. Intil I have everyone with passwords, etc, IT may interfere with what he is doing.
Mar 05 01:33:25 *    MrBluze has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
Mar 05 01:33:58 <audioguy>    Paul is currently eating dinner so unavailable.
Mar 05 01:34:11 <mattie_p>    audioguy, you talking about a code change? they can always decide not to commit
Mar 05 01:34:54 <audioguy>    No, mattie, talking about making slashcott password protected and available only to staff.
Mar 05 01:35:18 <mattie_p>    oh, that?
Mar 05 01:35:22 <mrcoolbp>    mattie_p i was with you on that. He convinced me. They are using that server, I thought it was just there for now
Mar 05 01:35:30 <audioguy>    Yes. See the problem now?
Mar 05 01:35:31 <mrcoolbp>    yes that
Mar 05 01:35:49 <mattie_p>    you have suadmin on it?
Mar 05 01:35:52 <mrcoolbp>    guys I'll be leaving for food in a sec
Mar 05 01:35:59 <mrcoolbp>    I'll be back in an hour or 2
Mar 05 01:36:01 <mattie_p>    I'd recommend you do it anyway
Mar 05 01:36:13 <audioguy>    We have had enough of people wildly going their own way without communicating, do not want to add to that.
Mar 05 01:36:16 <mattie_p>    its primarily staff at this point anyway
Mar 05 01:36:29 <mattie_p>    Talk to NCommander
Mar 05 01:36:36 <audioguy>    I have root on it, yes.
Mar 05 01:36:37 <mattie_p>    but its going to happen anyway
Mar 05 01:36:46 <audioguy>    That is what I plan to do.
Mar 05 01:36:55 <mattie_p>    and it will need to be ported to ubuntu
Mar 05 01:37:14 <mattie_p>    therefore by default it is the dev/test server
Mar 05 01:37:25 <mattie_p>    NCommander might call it edge or test or whatever
Mar 05 01:37:47 <mattie_p>    we are already putting CSS up there first, right?
Mar 05 01:37:58 <audioguy>    yes
Mar 05 01:38:06 <mattie_p>    ok
Mar 05 01:38:28 <mattie_p>    part of the problem with the structure we had before was that we weren't doing anything
Mar 05 01:38:35 <mattie_p>    spinning in circles
Mar 05 01:39:15 <audioguy>    I promise you this will get done, and soon. ;-)
Mar 05 01:39:16 <mattie_p>    we can get staff in if they are somehow missing
Mar 05 01:39:36 *    Barrabas (~chatzilla@Soylent/Staff/Barrabas) has joined #staff
Mar 05 01:39:36 *    buttercake gives channel operator status to Barrabas
Mar 05 01:39:44 <mattie_p>    ok
Mar 05 01:39:48 <mattie_p>    then I recommend you do it
Mar 05 01:40:17 *    mattie_p being fired frees me to say that I wanted a dictatorship at the beginning anyway
Mar 05 01:40:59 <Barrabas>    mattie_p: ubfortunately, dictatorship  would have lost the community at the beginning.
Mar 05 01:41:11 <mattie_p>    No, I don't think it would have
Mar 05 01:41:28 <Barrabas>    That's what the community kept telling me.
Mar 05 01:41:34 <mattie_p>    Dictators are good at throwing bones to the communirt
Mar 05 01:41:41 <mattie_p>    *community
Mar 05 01:41:57 <mattie_p>    who left when we made the site soylent news? noone of consequence
Mar 05 01:42:04 <mattie_p>    who decided that? one person
Mar 05 01:42:10 <mattie_p>    it was a good decision
Mar 05 01:42:12 <mrcoolbp>    I hope I was right to disclude Zak.......
Mar 05 01:42:16 <Barrabas>    That was always to be temporary.
Mar 05 01:42:16 <audioguy>    I think Barrabas is right.
Mar 05 01:42:24 <mrcoolbp>    he seemed to be done with the project
Mar 05 01:42:26 <audioguy>    The situation has changed.
Mar 05 01:42:43 <Barrabas>    mrcoolbp: Who?
Mar 05 01:42:46 <mattie_p>    this was always going to be a bootstrap organization
Mar 05 01:42:52 <audioguy>    In 6 month or a year, it could change again.
Mar 05 01:42:53 <mattie_p>    zford, concur, I think he's gone
Mar 05 01:42:57 <mrcoolbp>    sorry zford
Mar 05 01:43:03 <mrcoolbp>    my bad
Mar 05 01:43:11 <audioguy>    We will find our way, may be some growing pains.
Mar 05 01:43:33 <mattie_p>    anyway, we need to have stuff get done now, and mob leadership isn't the best way
Mar 05 01:43:49 <NCommander>    Alright
Mar 05 01:43:50 <mattie_p>    we'll get feedback, but you have to stick the booger on someone
Mar 05 01:43:51 <NCommander>    I'm back
Mar 05 01:43:53 <NCommander>    I've eaten
Mar 05 01:43:56 <mattie_p>    yay!
Mar 05 01:43:57 <NCommander>    And life is way better
Mar 05 01:44:06 *    NCommander loves the topic
Mar 05 01:44:06 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Slept tonight?
Mar 05 01:44:13 <NCommander>    Barrabas, what's sleep?
Mar 05 01:44:29 <Barrabas>    It's my turn to sleep :-)
Mar 05 01:44:29 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: email sent
Mar 05 01:44:32 *    NCommander despises his body
Mar 05 01:44:58 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, very awesome. With luck, mechanicjay will get mailman up today, we can get mass-enlistment done, and officially get this show on the road
Mar 05 01:45:02 <mattie_p>    NCommander, do you think we should immediately turn slashcott.org into a staff-only test/dev site?
Mar 05 01:45:05 <Barrabas>    NCommander: BTW, it that package gets back to me, where should I send it?
Mar 05 01:45:20 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: what mattie_p said
Mar 05 01:45:33 <NCommander>    Barrabas, lets wait until stateside again to deal with it. I'll trade you a check for your packages :-)
Mar 05 01:45:38 <mrcoolbp>    I'd like to at least test the idea of having staff communication on slashcott
Mar 05 01:45:41 <NCommander>    Barrabas, OH!, and I'll find you something nice as a keepsake from China
Mar 05 01:45:48 <audioguy>    NCommander, read the log just previous
Mar 05 01:46:03 <Barrabas>    NCommander: A keychain would be nice :)
Mar 05 01:46:12 <mattie_p>    I lost mine :(
Mar 05 01:46:17 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: what mattie_p said
Mar 05 01:46:24 <NCommander>    Barrabas, one GPG keychain, coming up
Mar 05 01:46:26 *    NCommander ducks
Mar 05 01:46:44 <Barrabas>    I actually bought a keychain for mrcoolbp, it hasn't arrived yet.
Mar 05 01:46:54 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I feel the USPS hates you
Mar 05 01:46:55 <Barrabas>    (To be fair, it's a "video recorder" keychain.)
Mar 05 01:47:25 *    mrcoolbp though that was a joke
Mar 05 01:47:29 <mrcoolbp>    Joh ^^^
Mar 05 01:47:33 <mrcoolbp>    John*
Mar 05 01:47:34 <Barrabas>    mrcoolbp: It's not.
Mar 05 01:47:38 <mrcoolbp>    lol
Mar 05 01:47:39 <mrcoolbp>    !!
Mar 05 01:48:03 <NCommander>    audioguy, i'm looking at the backlog and nothing obvious is jumping out at me
Mar 05 01:48:04 <mattie_p>    Can I get a keychain? I kind of promised one to people.
Mar 05 01:48:13 <Barrabas>    Hey, I'm not in charge any more, so go poind sand. It's *my* video recorder keychain now, bub!
Mar 05 01:48:15 <mrcoolbp>    <@mattie_p> NCommander, do you think we should immediately turn slashcott.org into a staff-only test/dev site?
Mar 05 01:48:40 <mattie_p>    That means convert to ubuntu, if not on it already
Mar 05 01:48:41 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, uh, we can. I'm not sure if there's a lot of point to do so
Mar 05 01:48:43 <mrcoolbp>    we'd like to move forward and test that idea concurrently with the mailing list
Mar 05 01:48:45 <mattie_p>    test and do QA there
Mar 05 01:48:46 <audioguy>    Any problem with me password protecting slascott so we can begin experimenting with using it for staff only?
Mar 05 01:48:53 <mrcoolbp>    IT
Mar 05 01:48:57 <NCommander>    The dev servers should be a thing soonish
Mar 05 01:48:58 <NCommander>    I hope
Mar 05 01:49:10 <mrcoolbp>    it's dual purpose, we are doing our own QA while communicatin!
Mar 05 01:49:18 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, actually, second thought, lets do that. the initial edge server will still be talking to production's database.
Mar 05 01:49:19 <mattie_p>    "^^
Mar 05 01:49:25 <mrcoolbp>    AWESOME!
Mar 05 01:49:30 <mrcoolbp>    audioguy ^^^^
Mar 05 01:49:34 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, and I need to do some voodoo to make us use a second theme on edge
Mar 05 01:49:42 <mrcoolbp>    yes
Mar 05 01:49:44 <NCommander>    Like, super voodoo
Mar 05 01:49:46 <mrcoolbp>    that would be helpful
Mar 05 01:49:53 <mrcoolbp>    and much requested
Mar 05 01:49:55 *    mattie_p summons voodoo master
Mar 05 01:50:01 <mrcoolbp>    but not essential right now!
Mar 05 01:50:06 <mrcoolbp>    we need to prioritizer
Mar 05 01:50:14 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, yeah, dev servers are up there
Mar 05 01:50:14 <mattie_p>    shit, worked last time
Mar 05 01:50:15 <mrcoolbp>    one more thing before leave for food
Mar 05 01:50:45 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: mattie_p and I are working on a master task list
Mar 05 01:50:49 <audioguy>    OK, I still need to double check this will not interfere with paul in any way, as soon as he is back from dinner.
Mar 05 01:50:53 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, very awesome.
Mar 05 01:50:59 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, keep me apprised
Mar 05 01:51:01 <mrcoolbp>    you should review, we need to PRIORITIZE
Mar 05 01:51:03 <mattie_p>    am I?
Mar 05 01:51:04 <mrcoolbp>    we will
Mar 05 01:51:08 <mrcoolbp>    you said you were
Mar 05 01:51:10 <mattie_p>    last I heard I was an editor
Mar 05 01:51:18 <mrcoolbp>    okay you WERE
Mar 05 01:51:19 <mrcoolbp>    no?
Mar 05 01:51:30 <mrcoolbp>    any progress on that mr. editor?
Mar 05 01:51:34 <audioguy>    What I can do is just make it open with ONE username password, until everyone is in, the give people individual ones. Sound reasonable?
Mar 05 01:51:43 <mrcoolbp>    you can send to me and I'll finish mattie_p
Mar 05 01:51:53 <mattie_p>    I'll send what I got
Mar 05 01:51:57 <mrcoolbp>    perfect
Mar 05 01:52:02 <mattie_p>    will take me some time to finish the compillation
Mar 05 01:52:05 <NCommander>    audioguy, just stick a damn .htpasswd on the thing with shared secret
Mar 05 01:52:16 <NCommander>    PROBLEM SOLVED
Mar 05 01:52:20 <mrcoolbp>    mattie_p just send it over if you like
Mar 05 01:52:31 <audioguy>    That is what I just said.
Mar 05 01:52:46 <NCommander>    audioguy, oh, I thought you mean a shared admin password for slashcode
Mar 05 01:52:48 *    NCommander brainfarts
Mar 05 01:53:15 <audioguy>    NCommander probably needs sleep.
Mar 05 01:53:21 <NCommander>    audioguy, can't, have a job to do
Mar 05 01:53:22 <mrcoolbp>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mar 05 01:53:23 <NCommander>    RL job
Mar 05 01:55:23 <mattie_p>    RL jobs suck
Mar 05 01:55:26 <mattie_p>    never have one
Mar 05 01:55:27 <xlefay>    zford: did you really resign?
Mar 05 01:56:06 <xlefay>    anyone else feel free to answer that one..
Mar 05 01:56:52 <mattie_p>    2nd hand pm says he ragequit
Mar 05 01:56:57 <mattie_p>    cannot confirm
Mar 05 01:57:35 <kobach>    lol
Mar 05 01:57:39 <xlefay>    I see
Mar 05 01:57:42 <mattie_p>    2nd hand pm says he no longer has root
Mar 05 01:57:44 <mattie_p>    cannot confirm
Mar 05 01:57:57 <xlefay>    hmm k
Mar 05 01:58:10 <mrcoolbp>    he also said he was not in if there was a change in leadership
Mar 05 01:58:16 <xlefay>    mechanicjay?
Mar 05 01:58:22 <kobach>    no, zford
Mar 05 01:58:24 <Barrabas>    mattie_p: Real quick. He's definitely out, so I should remove his privs on linode. Yes?
Mar 05 01:58:33 <xlefay>    mrcoolbp: yeah I decided to read the logs anyway
Mar 05 01:58:43 <mattie_p>    Barrabas if they are not already gone, then probably yes
Mar 05 01:58:56 <xlefay>    I mean, where's mechanicjay? Not sure about his stance?
Mar 05 01:58:56 <mattie_p>    I'm out, so confirm with NCommander if you need to
Mar 05 01:59:07 <kobach>    xlefay: he was in there
Mar 05 01:59:16 <xlefay>    kobach: I know
Mar 05 01:59:32 <mattie_p>    not sure: mechanicjay may still be on board
Mar 05 01:59:37 <xlefay>    you mattie_p?
Mar 05 01:59:47 <mattie_p>    I never had root
Mar 05 01:59:56 <mattie_p>    Don't want it either
Mar 05 02:00:07 <mrcoolbp>    marrie_p: you're "out"???
Mar 05 02:00:08 <xlefay>    I mean, are you still on board with SN
Mar 05 02:00:18 <Barrabas>    mattie_p: Done. And also, zak did not "ragequit".
Mar 05 02:00:20 <mattie_p>    Oh, I'm still onboard with SN
Mar 05 02:00:48 <mattie_p>    Barrabas: I said -2nd hand pm says he ragequit, cannot confirm
Mar 05 02:00:58 <mattie_p>    Just not sure of what I'm doing now
Mar 05 02:01:09 <mattie_p>    should probably eat dinner and edit a story, I guess
Mar 05 02:01:11 <Barrabas>    He and I talked and decided it wasn't working out. It's good both ways.
Mar 05 02:01:27 <mrcoolbp>    Barrabas: you are being extremely civil and helpful about this
Mar 05 02:01:33 <mrcoolbp>    that says alot about you
Mar 05 02:02:13 <mattie_p>    I know everyone likes asking me stuff, but I should probably step back for now
Mar 05 02:02:26 <mattie_p>    While everything gets sorted out
Mar 05 02:02:55 <kobach>    mattie_p: come have pork with me
Mar 05 02:03:01 <mrcoolbp>    mattie_p agreed
Mar 05 02:03:02 *    kobach motions to the chair next to him
Mar 05 02:03:13 <mrcoolbp>    feel free to defer stuff to me if people request?
Mar 05 02:03:16 <Barrabas>    mattie_p: You've been one of the good guys in all this - thanks for the help.
Mar 05 02:03:26 <mrcoolbp>    I'll check with NC on things
Mar 05 02:03:31 *    kobach slides a plate of bacon towards #staff
Mar 05 02:03:40 *    xlefay fetches some bacon :o
Mar 05 02:04:09 *    NCommander eats bacon and kobach's chair
Mar 05 02:04:13 <mattie_p>    I'll send the task list tonight and then chill
Mar 05 02:04:16 <kobach>    :O
Mar 05 02:04:17 <Barrabas>    I htink I'm going to have some pork right now: http://www.google.com/imgres?client=firefox-a&hs=SaM&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&biw=1024&bih=1136&tbm=isch&tbnid=hUgUEbiR8ZjZUM:&imgrefurl=http://www.coldbacon.com/kliban2.html&docid=Ynqelq9GfqQsDM&imgurl=http://www.coldbacon.com/pics/kliban/bkpork.gif&w=554&h=371&ei=_XcWU5OZHMqB0AHb9IHQBQ&zoom=1
Mar 05 02:04:27 <mattie_p>    I'll be in bed before 10pm for once, how about that
Mar 05 02:04:28 <kobach>    oh my link
Mar 05 02:04:46 <kobach>    Barrabas: rofl
Mar 05 02:05:33 <Barrabas>    (I've been following him since the beginning. *Love* his cartoons.)
Mar 05 02:05:45 *    xlefay just wants to thank everyone for being generally awesome, even though some things didn't work out. ;)
Mar 05 02:05:56 <xlefay>    'generally' because you all are awesome in a different way
Mar 05 02:06:04 <NCommander>    Barrabas, water may have shot through my nose just now
Mar 05 02:06:10 <xlefay>    End of Love Letter.
Mar 05 02:06:18 <NCommander>    xlefay, you forgot to close your tags
Mar 05 02:06:20 <NCommander>    </letter>
Mar 05 02:06:27 <mrcoolbp>    everyone++
Mar 05 02:06:27 <Cubert>    karma - everyone: 1
Mar 05 02:06:36 <NCommander>    bacon++
Mar 05 02:06:36 <Cubert>    karma - bacon: 18
Mar 05 02:06:41 <Barrabas>    xlefay: You leaving?
Mar 05 02:06:45 <xlefay>    damnit I did didn't I
Mar 05 02:06:48 <kobach>    bacon++
Mar 05 02:06:48 <Cubert>    karma - bacon: 19
Mar 05 02:06:50 <mattie_p>    I think he's back
Mar 05 02:06:57 <NCommander>    wow, bacon appears to be very popular
Mar 05 02:07:01 <xlefay>    No, I just felt like sharing
Mar 05 02:07:05 <xlefay>    NCommander: check #soylent
Mar 05 02:07:06 <stderr>    bacon++
Mar 05 02:07:06 <Cubert>    karma - bacon: 20
Mar 05 02:07:09 <kobach>    NCommander: unfortuneatly im out
Mar 05 02:07:17 <NCommander>    kobach, catch you later
Mar 05 02:07:26 <kobach>    no i meant of bacon
Mar 05 02:07:36 <xlefay>    LOL
Mar 05 02:07:39 <kobach>    i ate all the bacons
Mar 05 02:07:47 <NCommander>    all your bacons are belong to kobach
Mar 05 02:07:49 <mattie_p>    anyway, now that I'm fired, anyone who wants to comment on my management can tell me freely, just shoot a pm and I'll get it
Mar 05 02:07:53 <kobach>    i have 1chorizo and 1 pork burger left
Mar 05 02:07:57 <mattie_p>    eating dinner and taking son to scouts
Mar 05 02:08:02 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I downgraded Zak's access to the linodes. Also, see my E-mail about the BlueHost migration (TL;DR: it's done)
Mar 05 02:08:19 <kobach>    lol mattie_p
Mar 05 02:08:25 <kobach>    whats for dinner
Mar 05 02:08:26 <mattie_p>    NCommander, feel free to remove my suadmin bits
Mar 05 02:08:26 <NCommander>    Barrabas, thanks. I nuked his shell access. I'll get mechanicjay to scrap it off the centos boxes
Mar 05 02:08:37 <NCommander>    mattie_p, mmmm bits
Mar 05 02:08:42 <kobach>    bacon bits
Mar 05 02:08:45 <kobach>    :p
Mar 05 02:08:48 <mattie_p>    dinner is pasta and salad
Mar 05 02:08:51 <mattie_p>    pasta++
Mar 05 02:08:51 <Cubert>    karma - pasta: 1
Mar 05 02:08:53 <kobach>    mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Mar 05 02:08:56 <xlefay>    NCommander: u no nuclear sshfare?!
Mar 05 02:08:58 <kobach>    pasta++
Mar 05 02:08:58 <Cubert>    karma - pasta: 2
Mar 05 02:09:00 <kobach>    salad++
Mar 05 02:09:00 <Cubert>    karma - salad: 1
Mar 05 02:09:48 *    xlefay notes he has yet to eat >.<
Mar 05 02:09:55 <xlefay>    now I'm hungry, thank you kobach!
Mar 05 02:10:20 <kobach>    dont feel bad, im full and want more food, thats even worse
Mar 05 02:10:25 <kobach>    at least you have room
Mar 05 02:10:41 <xlefay>    :P
Mar 05 02:10:55 <kobach>    my stomach is full of pork and cereal
Mar 05 02:11:08 <mattie_p>    hasn't gotten any comments, I must have been pretty mediocre then
Mar 05 02:11:08 <kobach>    im a happy man
Mar 05 02:11:15 <kobach>    mattie_p: we loved you calm down
Mar 05 02:11:18 <mattie_p>    good to know
Mar 05 02:11:23 <Barrabas>    Dinner for me is word salad and copy-pasta. Ih, wait! I don't have to write documents any more! Mmmmmm... relaxed reading for me :-)
Mar 05 02:11:46 <mattie_p>    look, lay it on me, I can take it if I could be better
Mar 05 02:11:53 <mattie_p>    I'll be happy to chat when I get a chance
Mar 05 02:11:57 <kobach>    i dont think you could hav ebeen
Mar 05 02:12:09 <kobach>    unless someone else has a different opinion
Mar 05 02:12:30 <mattie_p>    2nd hand opinion says otherwise
Mar 05 02:12:30 <kobach>    i think you did the best that could be done under the circumstances
Mar 05 02:12:42 <kobach>    well like i said its just my opinion
Mar 05 02:12:44 <mattie_p>    I'd prefer first hand though
Mar 05 02:13:06 <Barrabas>    mattie_p: Here and now?
Mar 05 02:13:15 <mattie_p>    anyway, feel free to talk behind my back, it'll be a couple of hours before I can respond though
Mar 05 02:13:23 <mattie_p>    or shoot me an email, don't really care
Mar 05 02:13:36 <mattie_p>    Barrabas, make sure you have permission before you release names, tho
Mar 05 02:14:02 <Barrabas>    mattie_p: What? I was hoping to get blackmail money for weeks!
Mar 05 02:14:15 <mattie_p>    But I'm willing to listen to criticism, and respond
Mar 05 02:14:28 <mattie_p>    see pretty much all of my posts in the site
Mar 05 02:14:48 <kobach>    well you know my opinion, everyone elses turn
Mar 05 02:14:49 <mattie_p>    and make changes as a result
Mar 05 02:15:29 *    buttercake has quit (Service unloaded.)
Mar 05 02:15:29 *    baconserv (buttercake@services.) has joined #staff
Mar 05 02:15:29 *    services. gives channel operator status to baconserv
Mar 05 02:15:55 <Barrabas>    OK, here's one. With the fever, slicing off my finger, and being generally tired all week, I asked you to let up on me. You told me I had to keep going, told me to finish the "answers" post (and no one else had that deadline), and the vision statement by Sunday.
Mar 05 02:16:34 <Barrabas>    mattie_p: So, you weren't paying attention to your employees' situation. :-)
Mar 05 02:18:37 *    mrcoolbp is back
Mar 05 02:25:56 *    paulej72 (~paulej72@Soylent/Staff/Frontend/paulej72) has joined #staff
Mar 05 02:25:56 *    baconserv gives channel operator status to paulej72
Mar 05 02:26:13 <mrcoolbp>    okay, looks like everyone is left AFK
Mar 05 02:26:24 <mrcoolbp>    I'm going to go spend some time with my wife
Mar 05 02:26:37 <stderr>    Not me... But I am going to the kitchen soon...
Mar 05 02:26:41 <mrcoolbp>    = )
Mar 05 02:28:08 <paulej72>     I am back
Mar 05 02:29:07 *    MrBluze_ (~daniel@Soylent/Staff/IRC/MrBluze) has joined #staff
Mar 05 02:29:07 *    baconserv gives channel operator status to MrBluze_
Mar 05 02:29:38 <MrBluze_>    hmm..
Mar 05 02:30:25 <MrBluze_>    anyone home?
Mar 05 02:30:34 <xlefay>    Knock knock
Mar 05 02:30:54 <stderr>    Who's there?
Mar 05 02:31:00 <MrBluze_>    archy
Mar 05 02:31:13 <stderr>    archy who?
Mar 05 02:31:21 *    MrBluze_ hands stderr a tissue
Mar 05 02:31:29 <stderr>    Thanks...
Mar 05 02:31:33 <MrBluze_>    yw
Mar 05 02:31:42 <MrBluze_>    ok so who's doing what .. and where can i look
Mar 05 02:31:52 <MrBluze_>    or are we not up to that yet
Mar 05 02:32:16 <stderr>    I think the dust needs too settle first.
Mar 05 02:32:20 <mattie_p>    You commited to that like a long time ago, I sent you questions on 1 march, response on 2 march
Mar 05 02:32:20 <rdavis>    dammit i hate msft so much
Mar 05 02:32:22 <MrBluze_>    okay
Mar 05 02:32:43 <MrBluze_>    mattie_p:  huh?
Mar 05 02:33:00 <mattie_p>    oh, sorry, was responding to Barrabas :)
Mar 05 02:33:04 <MrBluze_>    okay
Mar 05 02:33:09 <mattie_p>    I still can't IRC
Mar 05 02:33:23 <MrBluze_>    lol naww it grows on u over time
Mar 05 02:33:29 *    xlefay notes there aren't many good knock knock jokes on the webs to find.
Mar 05 02:33:44 <xlefay>    probably should have looked for knocked up jokes instead, bet there are a ton of those.
Mar 05 02:33:47 <mrcoolbp>    rdavis= ?
Mar 05 02:33:52 <xlefay>    robind
Mar 05 02:34:10 <mrcoolbp>    thx
Mar 05 02:34:16 <MrBluze_>    lol yeah xlefay
Mar 05 02:34:30 <Barrabas>    mattie_p: If you had an employee commit to something and they got the flu, would they still be liable for that schedule?
Mar 05 02:34:41 <MrBluze_>    what did the blondie say when she fell pregnant? ... "gee, i hope its not mine"
Mar 05 02:34:48 <xlefay>    LOL
Mar 05 02:34:51 <MrBluze_>    thee's a knocked up joke
Mar 05 02:34:54 *    rdavis is now known as robind
Mar 05 02:35:01 <robind>    sorry i am like always changing my nick apparently
Mar 05 02:35:03 <mattie_p>    You had replied already when you said you needed days off
Mar 05 02:35:37 <kobach>    no this was like
Mar 05 02:35:41 <mrcoolbp>    mattie_p: I'd use the "Barrabas:" he seems kinda afk
Mar 05 02:35:43 <kobach>    whoops
Mar 05 02:35:43 <Barrabas>    mattie_p: Well, then I guess there was miscommunication. I felt a little put out when you told me I couldn't slack off.
Mar 05 02:35:48 <mrcoolbp>    oh nm
Mar 05 02:36:15 <Barrabas>    mattie_p: Anyway, it's over now.
Mar 05 02:36:56 <mattie_p>    I'm trying to remember using those words
Mar 05 02:37:08 <mattie_p>    I recall thanking you after you gave those updates
Mar 05 02:37:14 <mattie_p>    I'm looking at emails now
Mar 05 02:38:25 <Barrabas>    mattie_p: It might have been on IRC too.
Mar 05 02:38:30 *    xlefay notes he hasn't seen Gaaark for a while.
Mar 05 02:38:56 <mattie_p>    Gaaark resigned, IIRC
Mar 05 02:39:14 *    xlefay notes we do desperately need mailing lists.
Mar 05 02:39:17 <Barrabas>    Anyway, I've got a half-bottle of "pork" left. I'm going to go watch a Mr. Moto movie and relax for a change.
Mar 05 02:39:47 <xlefay>    This is getting ridiculous, why did he resign if I may ask, mattie_p?
Mar 05 02:40:01 *    MrBluze_ is now known as MrBluze
Mar 05 02:40:04 <mattie_p>    xlefay it wasn't tendered to me, so I can't say
Mar 05 02:40:15 <mattie_p>    this was several days ago I heard about it
Mar 05 02:40:15 <xlefay>    hmm k, thx
Mar 05 02:40:49 <Barrabas>    mattie_p: P.S. - We are at page 55 in that book I recommended to you :-)
Mar 05 02:41:01 <MrBluze>    yeah it's important to know who is actually active
Mar 05 02:42:42 <mattie_p>    anyway, off to scouts now, back in a few hours
Mar 05 02:42:51 <mattie_p>    make sure you still have fun
Mar 05 02:43:39 *    mrcoolbp notes that we are working on mailing lists xlefay = )
Mar 05 02:43:59 <xlefay>    I know, but we're waiting on mechanicjay now, right?
Mar 05 02:44:21 <mrcoolbp>    I'm not sure
Mar 05 02:44:26 <mrcoolbp>    I think so though
Mar 05 02:44:37 <mrcoolbp>    if only we had a maili---nevermind
Mar 05 02:45:04 *    mechanicjay (~jhowe@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mechanicjay) has joined #staff
Mar 05 02:45:04 *    baconserv gives channel operator status to mechanicjay
Mar 05 02:46:01 <MrBluze>    great idea mrcoolbp, we should do a mailout about that idea.. but if only we ha da maili..
Mar 05 02:46:14 <mrcoolbp>    mmmmmmmmhmmmmmmmmmmm
Mar 05 02:46:17 <xlefay>    rofl
Mar 05 02:46:52 *    MrBluze failed the cyclic redundancy check
Mar 05 02:47:35 *    mrcoolbp is really leaving in a sec
Mar 05 02:47:56 <xlefay>    mrcoolbp: go spend time with your wife ;)
Mar 05 02:48:02 <mrcoolbp>    I'll leave you all with this
Mar 05 02:48:03 <mrcoolbp>    http://web.archive.org/web/19980113192107/http://slashdot.org/slashdot.cgi?mode=article&artnum=429
Mar 05 02:48:13 <mrcoolbp>    note this at the bottom:
Mar 05 02:48:17 <mrcoolbp>    "Post Your Comments Here!
Mar 05 02:48:17 <mrcoolbp>    If you don't have anything worthwhile to say, don't say it. If people continue to abuse this feature, I will have to remove it."
Mar 05 02:48:20 <mrcoolbp>    hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Mar 05 02:48:38 <xlefay>    OMG
Mar 05 02:48:45 <kobach>    rofl
Mar 05 02:49:08 <xlefay>    mrcoolbp++ ! :)
Mar 05 02:49:08 <Cubert>    karma - mrcoolbp: 2
Mar 05 02:49:26 <mrcoolbp>    can you imagine if he had decided to remove it?
Mar 05 02:49:35 <mrcoolbp>    wow
Mar 05 02:49:43 <mrcoolbp>    oh Rob
Mar 05 02:49:49 <mrcoolbp>    you made the right choice
Mar 05 02:49:54 <xlefay>    Actually yes, but then none of us would be here right now
Mar 05 02:49:55 <kobach>    LOL
Mar 05 02:49:57 <mrcoolbp>    enjoy that guys. I'll see you soon
Mar 05 02:50:03 <kobach>    mrcoolbp++
Mar 05 02:50:03 <Cubert>    karma - mrcoolbp: 3
Mar 05 02:50:06 <mrcoolbp>    = )
Mar 05 02:50:07 <kobach>    blimpie++
Mar 05 02:50:07 <Cubert>    karma - blimpie: 1
Mar 05 02:50:08 <xlefay>    oke, ciao mrcoolbp, take care now :)
Mar 05 02:50:15 <mrcoolbp>    y'all too!
Mar 05 02:50:17 <kobach>    god i want a sub sandwich so bad
Mar 05 02:50:37 <kobach>    pepperoni and 3 types of salami, roast beef
Mar 05 02:50:42 <xlefay>    best not to program in Perl then kobach
Mar 05 02:50:46 <kobach>    etc
Mar 05 02:50:47 <xlefay>    sub Sandwich { } ...
Mar 05 02:50:52 <kobach>    indeed
Mar 05 02:50:56 <kobach>    i can make it as long as i want
Mar 05 02:50:57 <kobach>    lol
Mar 05 02:51:14 <xlefay>    just imagine working on something serious and then craving for a subway sandwich...
Mar 05 02:51:29 <kobach>    not one from subway but yes
Mar 05 02:51:38 <xlefay>    then reading back an hour ago and finding you just wrote an entire CPAN library for sub sandwich
Mar 05 02:51:38 <kobach>    subway = mcdonalds of sandwiches
Mar 05 02:51:42 <kobach>    i only eat real food :p
Mar 05 02:51:47 <xlefay>    sub sanwich is =?
Mar 05 02:51:55 <kobach>    subway is a restaurant
Mar 05 02:51:57 <xlefay>    We actually have a food establishment called Subway here
Mar 05 02:52:10 <xlefay>    which specializes in sandwiches only.. guessing it's the same there then
Mar 05 02:52:12 <kobach>    sub sandwich is a type of sandwich
Mar 05 02:52:14 <kobach>    yes
Mar 05 02:52:17 <xlefay>    ooh rofl
Mar 05 02:52:31 <kobach>    im talking about like an italian sub
Mar 05 02:52:34 <xlefay>    needless to say, I never go there
Mar 05 02:52:37 <kobach>    good
Mar 05 02:52:41 <xlefay>    damnit I gotta go downstairs
Mar 05 02:52:47 <xlefay>    getting hungrier with every message you write
Mar 05 02:53:07 <xlefay>    :P
Mar 05 02:53:13 <xlefay>    bbs
Mar 05 02:53:21 <kobach>    looooooooooool
Mar 05 02:53:27 <kobach>    my bad :p
Mar 05 02:53:58 <xlefay>    nah it's mine, should've eaten something before I went to sleep ;)
Mar 05 02:55:50 <xlefay>    MrBluze: before I go btw!
Mar 05 02:56:09 *    Barrabas has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0/20140127194636])
Mar 05 02:56:18 <xlefay>    How about we replace the main website's logo with the one from the Wiki? That one looks much neater, maybe you can float that idea around in Style?
Mar 05 02:56:26 <xlefay>    .voice
Mar 05 02:56:26 *    baconserv gives voice to xlefay
Mar 05 02:56:27 <xlefay>    .bacon
Mar 05 02:56:32 <xlefay>    hmm.. worth a try
Mar 05 02:56:48 <xlefay>    bbs :)
Mar 05 02:58:11 <MrBluze>    oh..
Mar 05 02:58:16 <MrBluze>    i will
Mar 05 02:58:21 <MrBluze>    is there still a style?
Mar 05 02:58:39 <MrBluze>    and we will be redoing the logo
Mar 05 02:58:41 <mrcoolbp>    not sure yet
Mar 05 02:58:56 <mrcoolbp>    we need some art people I think
Mar 05 02:59:09 *    MrBluze isnt sure either
Mar 05 02:59:10 <xlefay>    I suggest all teams organize them as they see fit and then submit that structure as a proposal?
Mar 05 02:59:30 *    xlefay still has to go downstairs..
Mar 05 02:59:38 <MrBluze>    lol ok xlefay ill talk to frogblast
Mar 05 02:59:46 <xlefay>    NCommander: ^
Mar 05 02:59:51 <kobach>    xlefay: the full name is submarine sandwich
Mar 05 02:59:57 <kobach>    fyi
Mar 05 03:00:02 <xlefay>    kobach: sounds lengthy and very wet.
Mar 05 03:00:08 <xlefay>    eh..
Mar 05 03:00:12 <kobach>    which is why they named it such
Mar 05 03:00:14 <MrBluze>    it is if u leave it outside overnight
Mar 05 03:00:16 <xlefay>    that sounded way to worse.
Mar 05 03:00:19 <kobach>    nothing like a good italian sub
Mar 05 03:00:21 *    NCommander is so bloody fried its not even funny
Mar 05 03:00:24 <kobach>    lol
Mar 05 03:00:33 <NCommander>    Not going to get anything useful done today
Mar 05 03:00:33 <kobach>    bedtime yet?
Mar 05 03:00:34 <NCommander>    \o/
Mar 05 03:01:09 <MrBluze>    NCommander:  i leave it to u to work out how u want everything to be regarding the art/graphics side of things
Mar 05 03:01:10 <xlefay>    You probably should sleep yea, however in order to make the teams efficient, do you agree with that suggestion?
Mar 05 03:01:40 <kobach>    i dont agree with the current feasibility of it, it may not be possible yet
Mar 05 03:01:45 <MrBluze>    its fair enough xlefay but we started off that way a bit
Mar 05 03:02:06 <xlefay>    MrBluze: true but actual teams exists now, if you can organize internally now, it can probably work
Mar 05 03:02:26 *    xlefay still thinks art, style & Frontend should be merged together.
Mar 05 03:02:31 <MrBluze>    well we'll just keep going, but its better in some ways that we are working alongside dev
Mar 05 03:02:39 <MrBluze>    yes they are after all only 4 prople
Mar 05 03:02:42 *    kobach is just here for irc
Mar 05 03:03:05 <xlefay>    MrBluze: then for efficiency sake, just use the one name Style
Mar 05 03:03:09 <MrBluze>    at some point i just want to get on and create content
Mar 05 03:03:22 <xlefay>    If need be, you can always setup "task forces" later on
Mar 05 03:03:26 <xlefay>    for specific aspects
Mar 05 03:03:40 <MrBluze>    style or art .. i dont care i just wanna know where i am so i can get on with it ;)
Mar 05 03:03:42 <MrBluze>    yeah
Mar 05 03:04:01 <xlefay>    I'd vote for Style imo, it's a good broad description that actually makes sense
Mar 05 03:04:11 <MrBluze>    yep
Mar 05 03:04:18 <MrBluze>    i guess that's fine
Mar 05 03:04:37 <MrBluze>    basically it's UI design, artwork, look-feel, whatever
Mar 05 03:04:44 <MrBluze>    all the fluffy stuff
Mar 05 03:04:49 <xlefay>    MrBluze: then please send me the nicknames of all those in the newly merged "Style" and a general description of Style.
Mar 05 03:05:02 *    xlefay is cooking something up with mrcoolbp, that info is useful
Mar 05 03:05:13 *    robind has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
Mar 05 03:05:32 <MrBluze>    paulej, audioguy, me, frogblast are the active ones
Mar 05 03:05:42 <xlefay>    But are they all staff or volunteers?
Mar 05 03:05:44 <MrBluze>    paulej and audioguy are becoming dev
Mar 05 03:05:52 <MrBluze>    they are staff afaik
Mar 05 03:05:57 <mrcoolbp>    xlefay most everyone is staff at this point
Mar 05 03:05:59 <xlefay>    Will they be dev specifically or will they overlap?
Mar 05 03:06:04 <MrBluze>    overlap
Mar 05 03:06:08 <MrBluze>    because css is style
Mar 05 03:06:13 <xlefay>    So they'll be in two teams at the same time, ok
Mar 05 03:06:13 <MrBluze>    its even in the name
Mar 05 03:06:31 *    mrcoolbp is actually leaving NOW (bye guys)
Mar 05 03:06:32 *    mrcoolbp has quit ()
Mar 05 03:06:35 <MrBluze>    and i have ppl knocking on the door asking to help with smaller aspects
Mar 05 03:07:19 <MrBluze>    but for now thats it.. and i am working with frogblast on making mockups, icon work, logo, color schemes all of that, and UI guidelines and all that folllows that
Mar 05 03:07:34 <xlefay>    Feel free to drop a general description for Style and perhaps it's also useful if you write something on a specific wiki page about the scope of style, so everyone's up to date as to what style can and does
Mar 05 03:07:47 <xlefay>    (e.g. perl, won't be in your scope since that's for DEV)
Mar 05 03:08:03 <MrBluze>    i will i'll email u
Mar 05 03:08:18 <xlefay>    Thank you, but please drop the general description in Style and agree with it with your team
Mar 05 03:08:22 <MrBluze>    well the style wiki eplains it all
Mar 05 03:08:33 <MrBluze>    no worries
Mar 05 03:08:37 <xlefay>    after all, people always have enhancements, suggestions :)
Mar 05 03:08:44 <xlefay>    alrighty, thanks
Mar 05 03:08:45 *    MrBluze nods
Mar 05 03:08:46 <MrBluze>    cheers
Mar 05 03:09:39 <xlefay>    Personally, I think this is the easiest way to get the organization through. Cheers ;)
Mar 05 03:09:57 <MrBluze>    http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/index.php/Style#Description
Mar 05 03:10:04 *    xlefay 's stomach mumbles *go downstairs, nowwwwwwww*
Mar 05 03:10:18 <MrBluze>    off u go
Mar 05 03:10:23 <MrBluze>    i will play on the wiki and tidy it up
Mar 05 03:10:50 <xlefay>    Great, thanks!
Mar 05 03:15:31 *    Cactus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
Mar 05 03:20:06 <paulej72>    I recommend that we disband #frontend and #qa.  I can move all of that into #dev
Mar 05 03:27:12 *    Bado (~Bado@Soylent/Staff/Developer/Bado) has joined #staff
Mar 05 03:27:12 *    baconserv gives channel operator status to Bado
Mar 05 03:29:41 *    NCommander is seriously on fumes
Mar 05 03:30:49 *    Bado here's that. Developed a nice headache today (which I never get) from dicking around with too much data whilst working on some migration functions from one system to another
Mar 05 03:33:27 <MrBluze>    hi bado
Mar 05 03:33:33 <Bado>    Hola!
Mar 05 03:33:43 <MrBluze>    agreed paulej72
Mar 05 03:35:42 <MrBluze>    paulej72:  are u still happy to be on style, etc with audioguy?
Mar 05 03:35:53 <MrBluze>    otherwise i will basically reduce the scope of it
Mar 05 03:36:51 <paulej72>    I think at this point both of us should be in dev but we will be the point guys for css and stuff
Mar 05 03:36:56 <MrBluze>    on fumes, NCommander? u mean smoking?
Mar 05 03:37:07 <NCommander>    MrBluze, lack of sleep
Mar 05 03:37:09 <MrBluze>    ok i take u off the list
Mar 05 03:37:15 <MrBluze>    oh yeah u need rest
Mar 05 03:37:25 <MrBluze>    get some sleep lol
Mar 05 03:37:47 <MrBluze>    paulej72:  and i will wind the style thing back - not much to do ;)
Mar 05 03:46:35 <xlefay>    and I haz food!
Mar 05 03:47:21 <MrBluze>    wb
Mar 05 03:47:28 <xlefay>    thx
Mar 05 03:48:21 <NCommander>    MrBluze, can't, I'm at a conference and expected to attend
Mar 05 03:48:23 <NCommander>    I think I can escape to my room in an hour so so and take a nap
Mar 05 03:49:02 <MrBluze>    hard yards
Mar 05 03:51:36 <MrBluze>    off i go
Mar 05 03:53:30 <paulej72>    xlefay: can you kill #frontend and #qa
Mar 05 03:53:38 <xlefay>    sure
Mar 05 03:53:46 <xlefay>    done
Mar 05 03:54:13 <NCommander>    xlefay, can you make me a god in idlerpg?
Mar 05 03:54:15 *    NCommander ducks
Mar 05 03:54:16 <NCommander>    (j/k)
Mar 05 03:54:33 *    paulej72 (~paulej72@Soylent/Staff/Frontend/paulej72) has left #staff
Mar 05 03:54:35 <xlefay>    Still figuring out how to make myself just that
Mar 05 03:54:43 <xlefay>    haha j/k :p
Mar 05 03:54:44 <stderr>    NCommander: You just have to say "make me a god" in the channel.
Mar 05 03:54:47 <xlefay>    I do seem to have lost so much :|
Mar 05 03:54:58 <stderr>    Try it...
Mar 05 03:55:04 *    xlefay went from #1 to #3... I blame stderr
Mar 05 03:55:19 <stderr>    :-)
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Mar 05 04:23:41 <xlefay>    I'll bbl ;)
Mar 05 04:24:54 *    BaconServ gives voice to xlefay
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Mar 05 04:50:17 <martyb>    Hi Barrabas!  How you feeling these days?
Mar 05 04:54:26 *    martyb is now known as martyb_afk
Mar 05 04:57:00 *    janrinok (~blue@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok) has joined #staff
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Mar 05 05:00:20 <Barrabas>    I'm just lurking.
Mar 05 05:00:49 *    martyb_afk is now known as martyb
Mar 05 05:01:02 <martyb>    Barrabas: as was I.  seems quiet tonight.
Mar 05 05:01:29 <martyb>    Barrabas: Hope you are getting over your bug.
Mar 05 05:01:59 <Barrabas>    martyb: NCommander's in charge of everything ATM. Peste him.
Mar 05 05:02:04 <Barrabas>    pester
Mar 05 05:02:17 <paulej72>    too much excitement for most today
Mar 05 05:02:35 <martyb>    paulej72: guess I missed it.
Mar 05 05:03:06 <martyb>    paulej72: I noticed I got logged out of SN a couple times today, so I suspect changes were rolled out to the main site?
Mar 05 05:03:34 <paulej72>    martyb: nothing on SN, but check the link in the channel topic
Mar 05 05:03:51 *    Bado has quit (Quit: Bado)
Mar 05 05:04:02 <martyb>    paulej72: on my way. back in a bit.
Mar 05 05:08:52 <martyb>    paulej72: Hmmm, I may be a while ...
Mar 05 05:09:05 <xlefay>    martyb: recommendation: skip most of it
Mar 05 05:09:08 <janrinok>    Hi gys, Middle of the night here but I can't sleep - just popped in to see if anything is happening.
Mar 05 05:09:39 *    robind (~robind@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/robind) has joined #staff
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Mar 05 05:09:43 <paulej72>    janrinok: just getting martyb caught up
Mar 05 05:09:43 <xlefay>    martyb: the gist of it: tl;dr Barrabas "temporarily" handed over the keys to the castle to NCommander. NCommander might/will pay for the initial start up costs of SN that Barrabas made. And we're going to get shit done.
Mar 05 05:09:54 <janrinok>    so I see
Mar 05 05:10:28 <martyb>    xlefay: thanks for that... still digesting it.
Mar 05 05:10:42 <xlefay>    Although, I don't see how it makes sense for NCommander to pay for it if it's only temporarily...
Mar 05 05:12:13 <janrinok>    xlefay: If he's happy it keeps everything tidy until the dust settles, but I think I share your feelings.  I'll be happy to chip in but, at the moment, that will only complicate matters IMHO
Mar 05 05:14:37 <Barrabas>    martyb: The long and the short of it is that I desperately need a break and no one would let me. NCommander got me angry, so I gave him control of the project.
Mar 05 05:14:52 <xlefay>    janrinok: I'm not sure. I might chip in /after/ there's enough clarity in how we're going to proceed.
Mar 05 05:15:28 <janrinok>    OK, perhaps I misunderstood :)  - Nothing new for me...
Mar 05 05:18:08 <Barrabas>    xlefay: It's not temporary, it just hasn't been finalized. The idea is that he pays me back for startup costs, and he takes the project lock, stock and barrel.
Mar 05 05:18:51 <xlefay>    "lock, stock and barrel"? Not familiar with the meaning of that
Mar 05 05:19:16 <janrinok>    xlefay: it means 'everything'
Mar 05 05:20:17 <Barrabas>    xlefay: It's a metaphor expression, it refers to a rifle. It means "everything".
Mar 05 05:20:41 <Barrabas>    lock => flintlock mechanism.
Mar 05 05:21:56 <xlefay>    I see, English metaphors might be the most illogical part of your language
Mar 05 05:22:04 <stderr>    Barrabas: From the log it sounds like a temporary thing, but maybe I misunderstand what "23:51 <@Barrabas> NCommander: Be aware, I've not decided for certain." means.
Mar 05 05:22:08 <xlefay>    s/illogical/indirect/
Mar 05 05:22:16 <janrinok>    Barrabas: Do you not think that you could find a role after a rest?
Mar 05 05:24:06 <MrBluze>    nah, the people are the most illogical part
Mar 05 05:24:56 <xlefay>    MrBluze: "lock, stock and barrel" to say 'everything' seems excessive, illogical and indirect to me. Hence my comment about English metaphors.
Mar 05 05:25:16 <xlefay>    Metaphors is the way in English to be indirect. :)
Mar 05 05:25:41 <Barrabas>    stderr: Officially I'm still running the show. I kept the option open as a backstop "just in case" something goes wrong. The understanding is that he's in total control.
Mar 05 05:25:53 <janrinok>    xlefay: you might have hit the nail on the head there ;)
Mar 05 05:26:38 <Barrabas>    xlefay: Sometimes colorful phrases and powerful imagery can make a point better than direct words. It all started with the Iliad, when Homer wrote "It was a wine-red sea".
Mar 05 05:27:12 <xlefay>    I'm really afraid to ask if that's another metaphor..
Mar 05 05:27:43 <Barrabas>    IIRC, that's the first usage of written metaphor.
Mar 05 05:27:46 <janrinok>    I was! it means 'correct'
Mar 05 05:28:12 <xlefay>    'It was a <wine->red sea' so what's the "wine" supposed to mean?
Mar 05 05:28:38 <xlefay>    (besides the liquor, that is)
Mar 05 05:28:52 <janrinok>    xlefay: Sorry, I thought that you were referring to my comment.
Mar 05 05:29:16 <Barrabas>    Grape wine is frequently reddish (Burgundy). By alluding to the metaphore image, it gives a more powerful and deeper meaning than just "it was a red sea".
Mar 05 05:29:22 <xlefay>    janrinok: no worries, I actually did understand that metaphore
Mar 05 05:29:28 <janrinok>    lol
Mar 05 05:29:58 <stderr>    Barrabas: The log makes it seem like it's a temp thing. Then you say that NCommander gets everything. And then you say that you're still running the show... That's very confusing and looks like the communication problems people have been talking about for a while...
Mar 05 05:29:59 *    xlefay really doesn't understand people.. why didn't they just call the red sea, grape wine sea... would've made much more sense.
Mar 05 05:30:07 <mechanicjay>    Hey all -- it's time for me to break things
Mar 05 05:30:43 <xlefay>    then one could say, "it was the grape wine sea." ;)
Mar 05 05:30:46 <stderr>    mechanicjay: W00T!!!
Mar 05 05:30:48 <xlefay>    mechanicjay: uh oh, whatcha breaking?
Mar 05 05:30:57 <paulej72>    mechanicjay: what are you breaking tonight
Mar 05 05:31:02 <mechanicjay>    I'm going to flip the DNS record for mail.soylentnews.org to our linode box -- if anyof you erm..don't get any email...erm, let me know?
Mar 05 05:31:04 <MrBluze>    xlefay: because people are poets
Mar 05 05:31:06 <xlefay>    Glass? Walls? Golf clubs? Vis sticks?
Mar 05 05:31:14 <xlefay>    MrBluze: really bad ones at that.
Mar 05 05:31:19 <Barrabas>    xlefay: Ever read Sherlock Holmes? The phrase "He is the Napoleon of crime" is brief, but powerfully evocative.
Mar 05 05:31:22 <stderr>    mechanicjay: Ok, we'll send you an email...
Mar 05 05:31:25 *    robind has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
Mar 05 05:31:30 <xlefay>    oh... the MX, that's less exciting.
Mar 05 05:31:57 <xlefay>    Barrabas: can't say I have. Probably never will now.
Mar 05 05:32:08 <stderr>    mechanicjay: I assume you have tested stuff already? telnet to port 25 isn't that hard...
Mar 05 05:32:18 <paulej72>    mechanicjay: as I do not have a soylentnews email yet I say go for it
Mar 05 05:32:37 <mechanicjay>    yeah, been testing and ironing out little config things for the last couple hours
Mar 05 05:33:07 <mechanicjay>    getting mailman to cohabitate with a generic postfix mailserver isn't quite as straightforward as you might hope.
Mar 05 05:33:17 <Barrabas>    xlefay: Are you saying that you don't use metaphor or similar constructs?
Mar 05 05:33:24 <mechanicjay>    ..also it's been *years* since I've done a mailman setup.
Mar 05 05:33:31 <mechanicjay>    so, relearning etc etc
Mar 05 05:33:31 <xlefay>    We probably do but I prefer to be more direct.
Mar 05 05:34:06 <xlefay>    mechanicjay: it isn't that difficult iirc from the last time I set it up manually, just tidies.
Mar 05 05:34:15 <xlefay>    tidies? tedious?
Mar 05 05:34:29 <mechanicjay>    tedious -- I'd call it fiddly myself
Mar 05 05:34:50 <xlefay>    I see, thank you.
Mar 05 05:35:05 <stderr>    Tenacious? D?
Mar 05 05:35:16 <mechanicjay>    xlefay: what's your native language?
Mar 05 05:35:22 <stderr>    Damn it... Now I have to visit youtube...
Mar 05 05:35:25 <Barrabas>    MrBluze: Do you know of any poets from the Netherlands?
Mar 05 05:35:28 <xlefay>    Dutch.
Mar 05 05:35:34 <mechanicjay>    cool
Mar 05 05:35:41 <MrBluze>    uhhh
Mar 05 05:35:44 *    xlefay searches for the definition of Tenacious......
Mar 05 05:35:49 <MrBluze>    no, but some damn good painters
Mar 05 05:35:49 <kobach>    lol back w/ food
Mar 05 05:35:52 <xlefay>    ugh I hate you people :P
Mar 05 05:35:58 <xlefay>    kobach: bacon?
Mar 05 05:36:01 <mechanicjay>    ...I think I remember that now through a haze of exhaustion.
Mar 05 05:36:03 <kobach>    no, sub sandwich
Mar 05 05:36:09 <stderr>    xlefay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZBwgz-ANwA
Mar 05 05:36:17 *    Barrabas has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
Mar 05 05:36:26 <xlefay>    kobach: with bacon?
Mar 05 05:36:35 <kobach>    no unfortuneately
Mar 05 05:36:38 <kobach>    just an italian sub
Mar 05 05:36:42 <kobach>    :(
Mar 05 05:36:47 <xlefay>    if it doesn't contain bacon, it ain't food.
Mar 05 05:36:50 <xlefay>    kobach--
Mar 05 05:36:50 <Cubert>    karma - kobach: 0
Mar 05 05:37:00 <kobach>    :(
Mar 05 05:37:10 <stderr>    If at first you don't succeed... Add more bacon.
Mar 05 05:37:15 <MrBluze>    ok bbs
Mar 05 05:37:16 <kobach>    hmmmmm..... cereal... and bacon....
Mar 05 05:37:23 *    MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|afk
Mar 05 05:37:24 <paulej72>    how about this chain amavisd postfix dovecot squirrelmail
Mar 05 05:37:25 <xlefay>    oh god stderr...
Mar 05 05:37:36 <stderr>    xlefay: Yes? :-)
Mar 05 05:37:43 <kobach>    tommorow i will quest to my local pig farmer to get bacon
Mar 05 05:37:48 <xlefay>    rofl...
Mar 05 05:38:01 *    Barrabas (~chatzilla@Soylent/Staff/Barrabas) has joined #staff
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Mar 05 05:38:08 <mechanicjay>    paulej72: how about it?
Mar 05 05:38:22 <stderr>    xlefay: I see that you know my true name... Excellent...
Mar 05 05:38:41 <xlefay>    rofl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXlu4guvWDE&list=PL8HjrIXeC667Qy63stFQswXhxB2MUOHLm ;)
Mar 05 05:38:58 <paulej72>    That is what I have been using on my mail servers, but I do not have mailing lists built in, but fiddly as hell to set up
Mar 05 05:39:01 *    xlefay finally grabbed his wireless headphones from downstairs...
Mar 05 05:39:04 <kobach>    lol
Mar 05 05:39:21 <mechanicjay>    yes, actually have that same setup for my personal server
Mar 05 05:40:00 <paulej72>    on centos?
Mar 05 05:40:09 <mechanicjay>    suse
Mar 05 05:40:46 <mechanicjay>    so it's fiddly, with the German difficulty of stuff being over-engineered.
Mar 05 05:40:48 <xlefay>    exim + dovecot + spamd + mailman
Mar 05 05:40:57 <kobach>    lol
Mar 05 05:41:21 <Barrabas>    xlefay: Since there seems to be a communications issue, I'll be direct. Unless something changes, NCommander will be taking over the project entirely. That means finance, vision, and development.
Mar 05 05:41:44 <Barrabas>    xlefay: I'm only holding off by a day or so to make sure that things won't instantly blow up.
Mar 05 05:42:08 <xlefay>    And what if you change your mind in that day?
Mar 05 05:42:49 *    xlefay was already wondering wtf those sounds were, kobach... your youtube link was still open and it auto played other things :O
Mar 05 05:42:51 <Barrabas>    xlefay: Thank you for making up my mind for me.
Mar 05 05:42:58 <kobach>    xlefay: rofl
Mar 05 05:43:09 *    Barrabas has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0/20140127194636])
Mar 05 05:43:16 <xlefay>    Excuse me? I'm asking a legitimate question.
Mar 05 05:43:35 <kobach>    lol
Mar 05 05:43:48 <kobach>    now look what you did
Mar 05 05:44:03 <janrinok>    LOL
Mar 05 05:44:11 <kobach>    damn dutch
Mar 05 05:44:13 <xlefay>    It's a legitimate question. I've seen people change their minds for far less.
Mar 05 05:44:13 <kobach>    lol
Mar 05 05:44:26 <kobach>    im not saying its not, but lol @ the reaction
Mar 05 05:45:45 <xlefay>    Meh, it was a legitimate question, I'm sticking to that.
Mar 05 05:46:17 <audioguy>    I use sendmail, smartlist, and hypermail. Easy to set up.
Mar 05 05:47:32 <audioguy>    Plus spamassassin and some heavy duty blocklists
Mar 05 05:51:10 <mattie_p>    xlefay, as far as I am concerned, NCommander is the man, we do whatever at his whim
Mar 05 05:51:23 <xlefay>    mattie_p: agreed.
Mar 05 05:52:22 *    NCommander just cracked open his email
Mar 05 05:52:28 *    NCommander had 48 emails from Jon
Mar 05 05:52:30 <NCommander>    geeeeeeeeze
Mar 05 05:52:32 <mattie_p>    waits for the explosion
Mar 05 05:52:36 <xlefay>    48?
Mar 05 05:52:38 <xlefay>    woa
Mar 05 05:52:40 <mattie_p>    *boom*
Mar 05 05:53:02 <janrinok>    One word per email?
Mar 05 05:53:37 <kobach>    lol what
Mar 05 05:53:49 <kobach>    lol what
Mar 05 05:54:02 <kobach>    lol what
Mar 05 05:54:11 <kobach>    lol what
Mar 05 05:54:22 <kobach>    lol what
Mar 05 05:54:29 <kobach>    holy hell
Mar 05 05:55:00 <kobach>    thats fucked
Mar 05 05:55:08 <xlefay>    lolwut?
Mar 05 05:55:12 <janrinok>    Finishing with FUUUUUUU
Mar 05 05:55:20 <xlefay>    think I just burned my own eyes out
Mar 05 05:55:24 <kobach>    thats fucked
Mar 05 05:55:38 <kobach>    thats fucked
Mar 05 05:55:43 <xlefay>    .info
Mar 05 05:55:48 <xlefay>    .set mlock +nstPC
Mar 05 05:55:48 *    BaconServ sets mode +C #staff
Mar 05 05:55:50 <xlefay>    :]
Mar 05 05:55:53 <kobach>    thats fucked
Mar 05 05:55:58 <xlefay>    .set mlock +nstPc-C
Mar 05 05:55:58 *    BaconServ sets mode -C #staff
Mar 05 05:55:58 *    BaconServ sets mode +c #staff
Mar 05 05:55:59 <xlefay>    ..
Mar 05 05:56:09 <xlefay>    how about now kobach?:P
Mar 05 05:56:16 <kobach>    thats fucked
Mar 05 05:56:21 <kobach>    :p
Mar 05 05:56:21 <xlefay>    aah :P
Mar 05 05:56:28 <kobach>    i win
Mar 05 05:56:29 <kobach>    lol
Mar 05 05:56:33 <kobach>    there is like
Mar 05 05:56:36 <kobach>    -r or somthing
Mar 05 05:56:41 <kobach>    that blocks reverses
Mar 05 05:56:46 <kobach>    but 48 emails
Mar 05 05:56:50 <kobach>    thats fucked
Mar 05 05:57:03 <kobach>    wow
Mar 05 05:57:10 <kobach>    wow
Mar 05 05:57:16 *    xlefay pats NCommander on his back, that's a lot buddy
Mar 05 05:58:07 *    NCommander sets mode +S #staff
Mar 05 05:58:11 <kobach>    wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow
Mar 05 05:58:14 *    NCommander likes his world slightly more black and white
Mar 05 05:58:32 <kobach>    wow 48
Mar 05 05:58:52 *    kobach hands NCommander a bag of chips
Mar 05 05:59:10 *    xlefay hands kobach tissues, sorry about your bag of chips'
Mar 05 05:59:18 <xlefay>    it's gone now
Mar 05 05:59:29 <kobach>    lol
Mar 05 05:59:47 <xlefay>    no bacon, no ships...
Mar 05 05:59:50 <xlefay>    s/ships/chips/
Mar 05 05:59:52 <xlefay>    rofl
Mar 05 05:59:55 <kobach>    i have lots of cereal though
Mar 05 05:59:58 <kobach>    so its fine
Mar 05 05:59:59 <xlefay>    ooh
Mar 05 06:00:02 <xlefay>    that's good
Mar 05 06:00:13 <kobach>    i ate all my bacon and chips this week
Mar 05 06:00:22 <xlefay>    sucks
Mar 05 06:00:31 <kobach>    well its going to happen eventually
Mar 05 06:00:42 <kobach>    but i went out and bought kraut
Mar 05 06:00:45 <kobach>    some rye bread
Mar 05 06:00:48 <kobach>    i have some butter
Mar 05 06:00:53 <kobach>    gonna make that tommorow
Mar 05 06:01:08 <kobach>    i also bought a couple cans of organic corn and sweet peas and grean beans
Mar 05 06:01:23 <kobach>    ill probably make some of thos ein the next few days also
Mar 05 06:01:49 <xlefay>    hmm wow
Mar 05 06:02:00 <xlefay>    do you guys have kit kat?
Mar 05 06:02:03 <kobach>    yea
Mar 05 06:02:15 <xlefay>    Chunky's?
Mar 05 06:02:19 <kobach>    no
Mar 05 06:03:02 <xlefay>    http://www.kitkatchunky.com/ ?
Mar 05 06:03:15 <xlefay>    you sure?
Mar 05 06:03:31 <kobach>    oh probably
Mar 05 06:04:48 <kobach>    wow 48
Mar 05 06:05:32 <kobach>    loooool
Mar 05 06:06:13 <xlefay>    hmm kobach
Mar 05 06:06:35 <kobach>    yea we have a lot here
Mar 05 06:06:48 <kobach>    so im sure that is
Mar 05 06:07:22 <xlefay>    :P
Mar 05 06:07:48 <kobach>    im just eating honey atm
Mar 05 06:07:51 <kobach>    lol
Mar 05 06:07:56 *    NCommander goes to take a nap

Staff IRC Transcript, Part 2

Posted by NCommander on Friday March 07 2014, @01:47AM (#150)
0 Comments
Soylent
Mar 04 23:27:37 <NCommander>    Why do we have 6-7 overlords for 16 people
Mar 04 23:27:45 <paulej72>    either version
Mar 04 23:27:47 <NCommander>    Basic ICS says we should have 2, top
Mar 04 23:27:51 <NCommander>    *tops
Mar 04 23:28:08 <audioguy>    Or is it. I saw another whoswho thing on the eiki, then 5 minuets later it was deleted.
Mar 04 23:28:12 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: I think the idea is that we'd have more volunteers/staff at this point
Mar 04 23:28:16 <FunPika>    Or we could just use a staff only PHPBB board on the forums, seems like that would be the easiest thing to set up at the moment.
Mar 04 23:28:17 <audioguy>    on the wiki
Mar 04 23:28:26 <mrcoolbp>    audioguy: the who's who is on the wiki
Mar 04 23:28:28 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, then we can reorg later. This is an unworkable mess
Mar 04 23:28:37 <Barrabas>    NCommander: OK, I've seen the org chart. Let's start from the top. I've identified 5 general areas of interest, as shown. Do you think that's appropriate, or are there more or fewer departments?
Mar 04 23:28:41 <mrcoolbp>    I added the overlord part to the who's who section
Mar 04 23:29:02 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I'm saying you've got far too many managers, and thus we're suffereing from a middle management problem in a tiny organization
Mar 04 23:29:15 <mrcoolbp>    that seems like a good point
Mar 04 23:29:20 <audioguy>    I know, mrcool, I saw something that was supposed to replace that, maybe,.
Mar 04 23:29:24 <NCommander>    Barrabas, what you need is an overlord + general manager + editoral manager (as thats the largest team by far)
Mar 04 23:29:28 <NCommander>    Actually
Mar 04 23:29:30 <NCommander>    scratch that
Mar 04 23:29:34 <mrcoolbp>    audioguy, I didn't see that
Mar 04 23:29:36 <NCommander>    Overlord + editoral manager
Mar 04 23:29:43 <Barrabas>    NCommander: OK, but on the org chart, do you see that as not enough, too many, or what? What's your proposed change?
Mar 04 23:29:44 <NCommander>    Max of 7-12 people to one manager
Mar 04 23:29:49 <cosurgi>    hmm... this google.doc looks like a rewritten version of `who's who` on wiki. Why do we need two documents? I was using the wiki version all the time....
Mar 04 23:29:54 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I'm saying delete the damn thing.
Mar 04 23:30:16 <Barrabas>    NCommander: OK, suppose it's deleted. What's your proposed org chart structure?
Mar 04 23:30:29 <FunPika>    the google doc has more information about exactly what each team is responsible for last I looked
Mar 04 23:30:33 <mrcoolbp>    ^^^^^ wondering this as well
Mar 04 23:30:52 <NCommander>    Barrabas, A single overlord, and a manager to handle the editoral team. The overlord has 7-12 people reporting to them, and the editoral team has 4-6
Mar 04 23:31:08 <Barrabas>    cosurgi: The other document was mattie's. He was just more comfortable with google docs.
Mar 04 23:31:37 <NCommander>    Furthermore, that overlord needs the ability to decide, overrule, or veto freely. Because hafl the time, I ask 3 people for an idea, and get 3 ideas
Mar 04 23:31:43 <NCommander>    This entire management model is unworkable
Mar 04 23:31:50 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Is the manager at the same level as the overlord, or what?
Mar 04 23:32:23 <NCommander>    Barrabas, you're getting too far into the fine details.
Mar 04 23:32:37 <NCommander>    The basic rule: 7-12 people max per person to report to
Mar 04 23:32:46 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I want to draw the lines of command. Is the manager under the overlord, or at the same level?
Mar 04 23:32:51 <cosurgi>    I'm glad that the discussion is now getting really constructive. And I'm sorry that I must leave soon.
Mar 04 23:33:07 <LaminatorX>    Right now, there's too much overlap between the teams duties for them to operate without LOTS of overlord coordination.
Mar 04 23:33:21 <Barrabas>    LaminatorX: Can you give an example?
Mar 04 23:33:30 <NCommander>    Barrabas, ok, you have our overlord, the cheif, who directly manages some people. The editoral overlord directly manages his people, but can be overruled by the chief because the chief can see the big picture
Mar 04 23:33:34 <Barrabas>    LaminatorX: We know about sys/dev overlap. Any others?
Mar 04 23:33:50 <NCommander>    Why am I explainign Management 101 if I'm supposidly too inexperieneced to be a manager
Mar 04 23:34:03 *    NCommander goes to find something to bang his head on
Mar 04 23:34:07 <LaminatorX>    Layout of a story: Style's business or Content's. To make it happen, changes to perl by code or css by style?
Mar 04 23:34:09 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: we are just clarifying
Mar 04 23:34:33 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Please keep in mind that I only know people from E-mail, and for only 3 weeks. You *told* me that you weren't a manager, so that's where I'm getting it.
Mar 04 23:34:48 <LaminatorX>    IAnswer to my question: All of the above.
Mar 04 23:34:56 <NCommander>    Barrabas, yes, after you laid into me after bringup, then offered me the dev chair in the same conversation.
Mar 04 23:34:59 <paulej72>    Barrabas: you never told us you were not a manager either
Mar 04 23:35:23 <Barrabas>    NCommander: For the record, some might view that comment with negative intent.
Mar 04 23:35:24 <audioguy>    The truce fact is that slash is so shot through with perl that there is little dstinction between 'cod' and css stuff.
Mar 04 23:35:28 <audioguy>    code
Mar 04 23:35:37 <LaminatorX>    ^^^^^
Mar 04 23:36:03 <Barrabas>    paulej72: That's why I put mattie in place.
Mar 04 23:36:09 <NCommander>    Barrabas, we're getting ratholed right now.
Mar 04 23:36:20 <LaminatorX>    That was a good step, but not a complete solution.
Mar 04 23:36:29 <Barrabas>    paulej72: I figured I could put a manager in that position.
Mar 04 23:36:47 <audioguy>    We need, more or less, a techincal dept. run by a good peerrl coder with people doing the css and html etc under him.
Mar 04 23:36:52 <NCommander>    Barrabas, it doesn't magically work like that unfortunately
Mar 04 23:37:03 <Barrabas>    NCommander: If you're going to be a manager, you need to be sensitive to how you put things.
Mar 04 23:37:03 *    NCommander notes it would be nice if it did
Mar 04 23:37:13 <paulej72>    Barrabas: from what I am seeing mattie_p is not managing as he defers all division to you
Mar 04 23:37:21 <mrcoolbp>    Barrabas: Agreed
Mar 04 23:37:33 <Barrabas>    audioguy: There's been a lot of discussion of moving away from perl. Does it have to be a perl expert?
Mar 04 23:37:45 <audioguy>    Right now it does.
Mar 04 23:37:50 <kobach>    perl > * :p
Mar 04 23:37:51 <NCommander>    Barrabas, er, the most recent talks I had was to stay with slash, especially because we have a 2.4 mod_perl
Mar 04 23:37:53 <audioguy>    We are dealing with right now.
Mar 04 23:37:57 <LaminatorX>    That's a phase 3 cdiscussion.
Mar 04 23:38:17 <audioguy>    I persoanlly do not like perl. But for the moment, that is what we have.
Mar 04 23:38:37 <NCommander>    These phases are meaningless
Mar 04 23:38:47 <NCommander>    They're undefined, and don't actually tell us what needs to be done.
Mar 04 23:38:58 <audioguy>    And anyone who thinks we can rewrite this in some other languge 'quickly' is not in touch with how long such projects actually take.
Mar 04 23:39:10 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Overlord isn't like president of the US. We can have overlords under overlords, like managers within managers. I tried to put people in place to manage defined segments of the project.
Mar 04 23:39:22 <LaminatorX>    I just mean that long term architechture questions are lower priority than out immediate need.
Mar 04 23:39:25 <Barrabas>    NCommander: So for example, IRC is under content, as well as editorial staff.
Mar 04 23:39:41 <NCommander>    Barrabas, no, Overlord is like a firechief managing a command site. That chief must always have the big picture, and have a reasonable number of people reporting to him
Mar 04 23:40:21 <kobach>    ^
Mar 04 23:40:25 <NCommander>    Small group of people doing specialized jobs to get a job done.
Mar 04 23:40:26 <Barrabas>    paulej72: Mattie doesn't always communitate with me well. What has he deferred to me?
Mar 04 23:40:59 <NCommander>    Christ
Mar 04 23:41:03 <NCommander>    Its 7:00 AM
Mar 04 23:41:05 <paulej72>    Barrabas: I can give no specifics other than the OS decision
Mar 04 23:41:06 *    NCommander swears
Mar 04 23:41:27 <LaminatorX>    I gotta go pickup my daughter.
Mar 04 23:41:37 <kobach>    cya later lam
Mar 04 23:41:38 <Barrabas>    NCommander: If I can't stop, you can't stop.
Mar 04 23:41:51 <NCommander>    Barrabas, work calls me in an hour
Mar 04 23:42:19 <Barrabas>    NCommander: For the record, just why is it that my definition of overlord is bad and yours is good?
Mar 04 23:42:30 <NCommander>    Barrabas, because in my version, shit gets done.
Mar 04 23:42:32 *    LaminatorX has quit (Quit: Web client closed)
Mar 04 23:42:47 <audioguy>    ^
Mar 04 23:42:52 <NCommander>    If we were a firecrew as we are right now, the damn city would have burned down.
Mar 04 23:43:00 <kobach>    ^
Mar 04 23:43:09 <kobach>    brb
Mar 04 23:43:15 <paulej72>    too many chiefs and not enough indians
Mar 04 23:43:28 <NCommander>    paulej72, s/indians/firefighters/g
Mar 04 23:43:30 <Barrabas>    It's obvious that I cannot sustain the level of effort needed to manage the project in the way that the volunteers need.
Mar 04 23:44:12 <Barrabas>    I simply cannot provide the timely completion of my duties to the level of quality needed, at a rate sdemanded by the project.
Mar 04 23:44:19 <NCommander>    so what are you going to do about it?
Mar 04 23:44:36 <Barrabas>    I have to take several actions, while at the same time release completed documents on a harrowing schedule.
Mar 04 23:45:08 <audioguy>    I'd like to see a -plan- from NCommader.
Mar 04 23:45:26 <audioguy>    Written. ;-)
Mar 04 23:45:31 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I'm half inclined to send you my passwords file and take a break. Let you deal with it.
Mar 04 23:45:31 <NCommander>    audioguy, you can have one by Friday at the latest
Mar 04 23:45:39 <NCommander>    Likely tomorrow or Thursday though
Mar 04 23:45:46 <cosurgi>    audioguy: IMHO "shit gets done" is a good plan :)
Mar 04 23:45:57 <paulej72>    ^
Mar 04 23:46:00 <audioguy>    Because without that, it's till just tal, and we have plenty of that. ;-)
Mar 04 23:46:08 <NCommander>    Barrabas, feel free. At the very least, I'd like to have the DNS moved
Mar 04 23:46:10 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: If you take over, do we have someone in place that can do the dev work you are doing?
Mar 04 23:46:22 <Barrabas>    NCommander: What
Mar 04 23:46:29 <Barrabas>    's wrong with linode hosting our DNS?
Mar 04 23:46:35 <NCommander>    Barrabas, oh, it got relocated?
Mar 04 23:46:36 <audioguy>    No, shit gets done is not a plan any more than 'We will reclaiom the net for nerds' is a plan.
Mar 04 23:46:44 <NCommander>    Barrabas, it must be on the other account. Sorry. Disregard that :-)
Mar 04 23:47:06 <audioguy>    I'm a demanding bastard. ;-)
Mar 04 23:47:08 <NCommander>    audioguy, I'll have a manifesto rough draft tomorrow at the latest, published on the site by end of week
Mar 04 23:47:09 <mrcoolbp>    audioguy: he said he would work something up in a few days
Mar 04 23:47:11 <NCommander>    audioguy, reasonable?
Mar 04 23:47:14 <cosurgi>    audioguy: ok. good :)
Mar 04 23:47:16 <Barrabas>    audioguy: I do actually have a plan, I've just not had the time to write it down.
Mar 04 23:47:21 <audioguy>    Sound like a plan ;-)
Mar 04 23:47:43 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, we need to get a mailing list with all the staff registered so I can to all-hands emails, and get a good environment for discussion
Mar 04 23:47:49 <cosurgi>    so you two guys publish your plans, and then we vote?
Mar 04 23:48:00 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Pay me back for startup costs?
Mar 04 23:48:07 <NCommander>    Barrabas, agreed.
Mar 04 23:48:08 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: I have a lot of personal emails in that list...
Mar 04 23:48:11 <NCommander>    Barrabas, prefer check, or paypal
Mar 04 23:48:19 <mrcoolbp>    Ncommander: I can BCC if you direct to me
Mar 04 23:48:26 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Check is good. I'll E-mail you my address.
Mar 04 23:48:29 *    cosurgi can participate in costs to some extent....
Mar 04 23:48:35 <audioguy>    Whoa.
Mar 04 23:48:37 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I won't be able to send it for at least 1-2 weeks.
Mar 04 23:48:51 <NCommander>    Barrabas, let us work out the exact value on email
Mar 04 23:48:53 <audioguy>    Premature.
Mar 04 23:49:06 <Barrabas>    NCommander: NP, I trust you. Let's wait a day or so to see if you really want to pull the trigger.
Mar 04 23:49:15 <cosurgi>    audioguy: my feeling also.
Mar 04 23:49:16 <NCommander>    Barrabas, fair enough
Mar 04 23:49:20 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Exact value is on the wiki.
Mar 04 23:49:21 <mrcoolbp>    audioguy: Barrabas is offering to hand over the keys
Mar 04 23:49:23 <kobach>    in the meantime, lets all get a good nights sleep
Mar 04 23:49:29 <audioguy>    Let bruises heal a bit.
Mar 04 23:49:43 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, ugh, we need a way to email people. Can you BCC everyoen then and ask if its ok if we register them on a list?
Mar 04 23:49:53 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: yes
Mar 04 23:50:05 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, perfect. Once we have a confirmed list, we'll get mailman setup so we can organize
Mar 04 23:50:08 <mrcoolbp>    but I don't have the means to setup the mailing list itself
Mar 04 23:50:11 <Barrabas>    Looks like I can finally get a good night's sleep :-)
Mar 04 23:50:12 *    MrBluze (~daniel@Soylent/Staff/IRC/MrBluze) has joined #staff
Mar 04 23:50:12 *    buttercake gives channel operator status to MrBluze
Mar 04 23:50:33 <mrcoolbp>    Barrabas: I'm sad to see you hand over the keys, but I'm trying to understand
Mar 04 23:50:42 <Barrabas>    Oh, one thing. We should get Mattie in on this. It wouldn't be fair to just pull the rug out from under him.
Mar 04 23:50:44 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, that's fine, I'll see to getting one setup soonish
Mar 04 23:50:46 <mrcoolbp>    if this is really happening, hopefully you could still be involved?
Mar 04 23:50:56 <NCommander>    Barrabas, agreed, but AFK people don't write back :-)
Mar 04 23:51:00 <mrcoolbp>    I've been trying to contack him
Mar 04 23:51:14 <kobach>    hes been gone an hr and a half, probably preparing dinner
Mar 04 23:51:16 <audioguy>    Can't we just set up abloddy mailserver? I coud set all that up on sendmail in an hour or less.
Mar 04 23:51:25 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Be aware, I've not decided for certain.
Mar 04 23:51:27 <NCommander>    audioguy, we have a mailserver on production right now.
Mar 04 23:51:28 <audioguy>    I hate using outside services.
Mar 04 23:51:35 <mechanicjay>    we have one, talk to me
Mar 04 23:51:38 <audioguy>    Then let's use it.
Mar 04 23:51:51 <mechanicjay>    mailmain is almost done being setup, I'll get it finished tongiht.
Mar 04 23:51:53 <kobach>    omg i get to use a real email client again instead of gmail
Mar 04 23:51:55 <NCommander>    Barrabas,  Let me run this for awhile, then we can make a final call.
Mar 04 23:52:06 <mattie_p>    sorry, back now.  Mandatory stuff
Mar 04 23:52:11 <mattie_p>    let me catch up
Mar 04 23:52:12 <NCommander>    mechanicjay, is that on our "misc services" box?
Mar 04 23:52:12 <Barrabas>    brb
Mar 04 23:52:12 <mechanicjay>    Was busy getting stuff moved to linode from bluehost first before adding anything.
Mar 04 23:52:15 <kobach>    mattie_p: was it dinner
Mar 04 23:52:19 <mattie_p>    no
Mar 04 23:52:22 <kobach>    fuck
Mar 04 23:52:25 <mattie_p>    too eatly
Mar 04 23:52:26 <cosurgi>    mattie_p: try: /last mattie_p
Mar 04 23:52:32 <kobach>    never too early to prepare dinner
Mar 04 23:52:35 <mechanicjay>    NCommander: yes
Mar 04 23:52:45 <mattie_p>    ./s/eatly/early
Mar 04 23:52:47 <NCommander>    mechanicjay, right, at the moment, we've got everything spread across two linode accounts which is doubleplus ungood
Mar 04 23:52:57 <audioguy>    If mailman is almost set up, let's just use that, it's good.
Mar 04 23:53:01 <NCommander>    mechanicjay, we need a migration plan to get everything on one, lock down what we're doing on sys, and get the rest going
Mar 04 23:53:04 <NCommander>    ^- zford
Mar 04 23:53:17 <mechanicjay>    NCommander:  I agree
Mar 04 23:53:20 <NCommander>    I think Linode can migrate accounts, let me take an action item to ask them
Mar 04 23:53:30 <NCommander>    !todo Linode migration across accounts - ask support
Mar 04 23:53:30 <Cubert>    todo item 4 added
Mar 04 23:53:41 <mattie_p>    I'm checking backlog, looks like we're discussing site leadership in genera
Mar 04 23:53:45 <mrcoolbp>    yes
Mar 04 23:53:52 <mrcoolbp>    mattie_p we can summarize?
Mar 04 23:53:52 <mattie_p>    I wish this had been brought up on Sunday
Mar 04 23:53:58 <NCommander>    mechanicjay, for the time being, lets keep the slash servers on Ubuntu as we can clone them in two commands. For other boxes, we can use CentOS as a reasonable comprimise until we can get a final plan locked
Mar 04 23:53:59 <mattie_p>    yup
Mar 04 23:54:06 <NCommander>    mechanicjay, zford: any objections?
Mar 04 23:54:08 <mattie_p>    someone pm me
Mar 04 23:54:12 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander offered to take over
Mar 04 23:54:16 <mrcoolbp>    Barrabas is considering
Mar 04 23:54:47 <mechanicjay>    NCommander: I have no issues maintaining the status quo until we can talk about our options.
Mar 04 23:54:47 <mattie_p>    what's the consensus?
Mar 04 23:54:51 <mrcoolbp>    not sure
Mar 04 23:54:59 <mrcoolbp>    he said he'd BRB
Mar 04 23:55:03 <NCommander>    mechanicjay, perfect. Let's get that conversation sometimes next week
Mar 04 23:55:07 <mrcoolbp>    I'm on the sidelines here
Mar 04 23:55:09 <mattie_p>    The way things have been going are not the way I'd have liked
Mar 04 23:55:13 <NCommander>    !todo operating system decision - schedule for next week
Mar 04 23:55:14 <Cubert>    todo item 5 added
Mar 04 23:55:22 <mrcoolbp>    mattie_p: yup
Mar 04 23:55:46 <janrinok>    we are where we are
Mar 04 23:55:50 <mattie_p>    My proposals: 1) merge dev/sys under NCommander, at least he responds even while traveling
Mar 04 23:55:51 <kobach>    ^
Mar 04 23:56:00 <kobach>    agreed w/ janrinok
Mar 04 23:56:16 <NCommander>    mattie_p, I need to rewrite the org chart to confirm to something sane
Mar 04 23:56:22 <NCommander>    !todo rewrite org chat
Mar 04 23:56:23 <Cubert>    todo item 6 added
Mar 04 23:56:25 <mattie_p>    2) too early for pure democracy, this thing needs strong leaders right now
Mar 04 23:56:27 <NCommander>    !todo-done 6
Mar 04 23:56:29 <Cubert>    1 item deleted
Mar 04 23:56:32 <NCommander>    !todo rewrite org chart
Mar 04 23:56:33 <Cubert>    todo item 6 added
Mar 04 23:56:42 <kobach>    talk out your ass
Mar 04 23:56:44 <kobach>    whoops
Mar 04 23:56:47 <NCommander>    mattie_p, welcome to the new reality.
Mar 04 23:56:48 <mrcoolbp>    mattie_p: he is claiming to be a strong leader
Mar 04 23:56:58 <kobach>    (wrong chan)
Mar 04 23:57:07 <Barrabas>    (I'm back)
Mar 04 23:57:13 <NCommander>    mechanicjay, oh, as a personal favor, can you call the list "firefighters", I figure after that conversation, I think it might be a very good name for our staff and a hell of a lot less generic.
Mar 04 23:57:15 <mrcoolbp>    I'm not indicating either way whether that's true
Mar 04 23:57:51 <mrcoolbp>    Barrabas: mattie_p and I would not like to see this happen hastily
Mar 04 23:57:55 <mattie_p>    3) overlords is a bad name, we're all volunteers, this is all herding cats, call us catherders
Mar 04 23:58:04 <NCommander>    mattie_p, call it chiefs and firefighters.
Mar 04 23:58:08 <paulej72>    I think we got more accomplished in the last 10 minutes than the whole 3 hours of the staff meeting
Mar 04 23:58:13 <kobach>    i like the name catherder
Mar 04 23:58:15 <audioguy>    ^^^
Mar 04 23:58:17 <mattie_p>    doesn't matter, NCommander
Mar 04 23:58:18 <kobach>    better than scruffy looking nerfherder
Mar 04 23:58:22 <mechanicjay>    mattie_p: sound to close to catheders
Mar 04 23:58:35 <MrBluze>    who's scruffy looking
Mar 04 23:58:39 <mattie_p>    I'm fine with whatever, but none of us are lords of anything, we can all quit
Mar 04 23:58:39 *    NCommander is actually
Mar 04 23:58:43 <kobach>    rofl
Mar 04 23:58:50 <cosurgi>    actually catherders & firefighters is a very good name. Imagine herding cats inside a house under a fire.
Mar 04 23:58:58 <kobach>    cosurgi: ^^^^^^
Mar 04 23:58:59 <zford>    I'm not interested in drama or reorganizing, so I'm going to stay out of it
Mar 04 23:59:01 <NCommander>    cosurgi, .... you just won the chat
Mar 04 23:59:04 <audioguy>    Make us all lords.
Mar 04 23:59:10 <mrcoolbp>    whoa, zford is here
Mar 04 23:59:36 <mattie_p>    zford, you need to pipe up or get out of the room, TBH
Mar 04 23:59:49 <mattie_p>    apparently we're all rebelling
Mar 04 23:59:51 <MrBluze>    well, if there is a change in leadership, i put myself up as a volunteer and NCommander can decide what he wants me to do, i'm easy
Mar 04 23:59:51 <mrcoolbp>    zford: are you planning on continuing being a part of this project?
Mar 05 00:00:00 <mattie_p>    and this needs to sort out
Mar 05 00:00:01 <janrinok>    I leave this forum far happier than I arrived - time for me to go, cheers guys
Mar 05 00:00:11 <NCommander>    cya janrinok
Mar 05 00:00:13 <mrcoolbp>    later janrinok
Mar 05 00:00:15 <kobach>    janrinok: cya tommorow
Mar 05 00:00:19 *    janrinok has quit (Quit: leaving)
Mar 05 00:00:24 <zford>    If there is a coup, I'm out
Mar 05 00:00:32 <mattie_p>    I have no idea what is going on
Mar 05 00:00:32 <mrcoolbp>    understood
Mar 05 00:00:41 <mattie_p>    but we're discussing everything
Mar 05 00:00:48 <mattie_p>    anything and everything is on the table
Mar 05 00:01:20 <NCommander>    zford, I'm sorry you feel that way. The door will remain open if you wish to return.
Mar 05 00:01:29 <mrcoolbp>    mattie_p: NCommander confronted Barrabas, eventually Barrabas said NCommander could give it a go, but he didn't make it final
Mar 05 00:01:34 <mrcoolbp>    correct me if I'm wrong all
Mar 05 00:02:11 <mrcoolbp>    also trying to catch up a little
Mar 05 00:02:13 <zford>    The drama isn't worth it and I have better things to do if the group is just going to fight over whatever you guys are pissed off at each other about.
Mar 05 00:02:23 <NCommander>    mechanicjay, robinld, I'm going to get some notes together on our thoughts. I think for the short term, we'll keep the slash servers themself running Ubuntu, and dev can directly administator. For everything else, lets use CentOS (who says I can't comprise). The DB server is debatable, as its pretty much just mysql
Mar 05 00:03:06 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: If you take over, do we have someone in place that can do the dev work you are doing?
Mar 05 00:03:13 <audioguy>    It's hard to tell what decision was made because we have no way of recoding votes, and anly the vaguest lines of authority.
Mar 05 00:03:24 <audioguy>    recording
Mar 05 00:03:29 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: there will be a lot of management things to do
Mar 05 00:03:31 <audioguy>    An how many people are not here?
Mar 05 00:03:32 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, I'm still head of dev for the moment. Let me see how well I scale
Mar 05 00:03:42 <mrcoolbp>    okay
Mar 05 00:03:59 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, if necessary, we'll start recruiting
Mar 05 00:04:10 <mattie_p>    NCommander, I think dev and sys should merge ASAP.
Mar 05 00:04:18 <kobach>    ^
Mar 05 00:04:22 <audioguy>    ^
Mar 05 00:04:22 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: makes sense, just remember saying it's difficult to find someone with your skillset
Mar 05 00:04:23 <mattie_p>    NCommander too early to differentiate tasks
Mar 05 00:04:23 <NCommander>    mattie_p, I'm going to rework the org chart to match my mental reality
Mar 05 00:04:38 <mattie_p>    NCommander great, lets see what shakes out from this
Mar 05 00:04:44 <NCommander>    robinld, mechanicjay: We can look at getting on one platform in the nearish future. Once we have reducent boxes setup, we can migrate them one-by-one to the final decision
Mar 05 00:04:57 <MrBluze>    i think we should all merge actually, to a point - the problem has been too much separation, when i think about it
Mar 05 00:05:05 <NCommander>    Right now
Mar 05 00:05:10 <audioguy>    In a plan, so be submitted in final form Friday. ;-)
Mar 05 00:05:12 <NCommander>    The org chart is Me <- *everyone*
Mar 05 00:05:16 <mrcoolbp>    lol
Mar 05 00:05:17 <NCommander>    I need to delgate somewhat
Mar 05 00:05:23 <robinld>    sounds reasonable
Mar 05 00:05:36 <kobach>    i can agree with that chart
Mar 05 00:05:39 <NCommander>    robinld, perfect
Mar 05 00:05:54 <paulej72>    I like
Mar 05 00:05:55 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander, where will the plan be posted?
Mar 05 00:06:01 <kobach>    bash.org
Mar 05 00:06:03 *    MrBluze nods
Mar 05 00:06:04 <mattie_p>    googledocs
Mar 05 00:06:05 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, to the site and the wiki once I write the damn thing
Mar 05 00:06:07 <mattie_p>    :)
Mar 05 00:06:08 <mrcoolbp>    will *WE* have any say in this?
Mar 05 00:06:14 <kobach>    mrcoolbp: yes
Mar 05 00:06:15 <mrcoolbp>    just curious
Mar 05 00:06:17 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, yes, on both counts.
Mar 05 00:06:21 <mrcoolbp>    okay thanks
Mar 05 00:06:44 <NCommander>    I'm not going to be a complete dictator, and I don't win friends my mandating my law. But I will moderate the discussion, and if necessary make a final decision
Mar 05 00:06:50 <audioguy>    NCommader might whack me again if I keep bringing this up.
Mar 05 00:06:58 <mrcoolbp>    Barrabas: what are you thinking?
Mar 05 00:07:00 *    NCommander whacks audioguy pre-emtpively
Mar 05 00:07:04 <kobach>    lol
Mar 05 00:07:22 <audioguy>    He hit me! he hit me!
Mar 05 00:07:24 <paulej72>    Just to let people know some of us have already discussed this with NCommander and have provided out support before this dust up happened
Mar 05 00:07:46 <MrBluze>    ok, then i await the org chart, see what my tasks may or may not be, and then get on with it :)
Mar 05 00:07:58 <mrcoolbp>    ^^^^^^^^^^
Mar 05 00:07:58 <NCommander>    robinld, mechanicjay: right now, we *need* a dev server. I'm going to nuke and pave the dev boxes over to Ubuntu, and clone the dev VM ontop them. That's a hue blocker for the dev team. I've got partial Slash bringup instructions written, I'll get those on the wiki soonish
Mar 05 00:08:03 <mattie_p>    paulej72: well, he owns the linode anyway, he could have walked at any time
Mar 05 00:08:05 <audioguy>    Yes, regular palace coup here.
Mar 05 00:08:24 <robinld>    i don't see a coup honestly
Mar 05 00:08:27 <NCommander>    mattie_p, well, Jon owns the linodes. and on the wrong account on the data centre
Mar 05 00:08:28 <mattie_p>    paulej72: better this way
Mar 05 00:08:29 <robinld>    it's not like anything has changed?
Mar 05 00:08:32 <NCommander>    I need to deal with linode support to sort it
Mar 05 00:08:32 <paulej72>    mattie_p: yes I know and I was going to follow
Mar 05 00:08:46 <MrBluze>    .. its hard to call it a coup when the thing was in disarray
Mar 05 00:08:48 <mechanicjay>    robinld: I sort of do
Mar 05 00:08:53 <NCommander>    !todo get name change discussion rolling
Mar 05 00:08:53 <Cubert>    todo item 7 added
Mar 05 00:08:54 <NCommander>    !todo
Mar 05 00:08:54 <audioguy>    It is, but for the best.
Mar 05 00:08:57 <Cubert>    todo for ncommander: 1) answer QA questions 2) make sure install-slashsite installs proper schema 3) port slash to mod_perl 2 4) Linode migration across accounts - ask support 5) operating system decision - schedule for next week 6) rewrite org chart 7) get name change discussion rolling
Mar 05 00:09:02 <mattie_p>    paulej72 if it came down to this or nothing, I'll take this
Mar 05 00:09:03 <NCommander>    !todo-done 1
Mar 05 00:09:03 <Cubert>    1 item deleted
Mar 05 00:09:05 <paulej72>    bloodless coup
Mar 05 00:09:17 <audioguy>    Exactly.
Mar 05 00:09:19 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: I will send out the BCC email to all addresses I have saying what?
Mar 05 00:09:21 <NCommander>    I like to call it sponatious organization
Mar 05 00:09:35 <kobach>    i like to call it a change of places
Mar 05 00:09:35 <mattie_p>    I've been only doing what I can through-out
Mar 05 00:09:46 <kobach>    same
Mar 05 00:09:48 *    mrcoolbp too
Mar 05 00:09:54 <paulej72>    same
Mar 05 00:09:56 <mrcoolbp>    go ahead and mod me redundand
Mar 05 00:10:02 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, that we'd like your permission to add you to the firefighting mailing list, where all staff can discuss and cooridinate on a global basis, and that this server is on boxes we know, won't be public to anyone except other staff
Mar 05 00:10:02 <kobach>    no
Mar 05 00:10:08 <MrBluze>    i will continue to do what i can
Mar 05 00:10:11 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: Done.
Mar 05 00:10:27 <NCommander>    MrBluze, we need the bot to be able to run meetings
Mar 05 00:10:29 <MrBluze>    globals.. crutchy would be so proud
Mar 05 00:10:37 <kobach>    Landon: ^
Mar 05 00:10:40 <NCommander>    MrBluze, what's the base script the bog is running, eggdrop?
Mar 05 00:10:40 <mattie_p>    hey, so quick question, am I in or out on this?
Mar 05 00:10:50 <NCommander>    mattie_p, you're in this, I just don't have you organized yet :-)
Mar 05 00:10:56 <MrBluze>    jsonbot
Mar 05 00:10:57 <audioguy>    Make sure any archive is password protected...easy to forget.
Mar 05 00:11:01 *    NCommander just got dumped and organization, and hasn't put the pieces together
Mar 05 00:11:09 <mattie_p>    consensus?
Mar 05 00:11:13 <kobach>    on?
Mar 05 00:11:14 <MrBluze>    xlefay is needed
Mar 05 00:11:20 <mattie_p>    Am I needed in this project?
Mar 05 00:11:20 <NCommander>    MrBluze, he's back on staff
Mar 05 00:11:26 <MrBluze>    ok good
Mar 05 00:11:34 <NCommander>    mattie_p, which project? mailing list?
Mar 05 00:11:41 <mrcoolbp>    the whole thing he means
Mar 05 00:11:47 <mattie_p>    ^
Mar 05 00:11:48 <paulej72>    mattie_p: I believe that you will still be needed for SN
Mar 05 00:11:48 <MrBluze>    im at work but later i will find u the git repo for it
Mar 05 00:11:49 <mrcoolbp>    he feels left out of the decision I think
Mar 05 00:12:07 *    mrcoolbp shouldn't put words in his mouth
Mar 05 00:12:35 <NCommander>    mattie_p, you're part of the project, and you proved yourself a good manager. Right now, I'm reorganizing us in a way that we can function, and getting us unblocked
Mar 05 00:12:36 <mattie_p>    I never put myself in the role, I kind of stepped up informally
Mar 05 00:12:52 <mattie_p>    NCommander I'm fine with that
Mar 05 00:12:55 <NCommander>    mattie_p, do you want to be a general manager?
Mar 05 00:13:01 <NCommander>    Or return to editing?
Mar 05 00:13:06 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: can I put your personal email address as the main so everyone has it?
Mar 05 00:13:09 *    Barrabas feels like the horse in "Animal Farm"
Mar 05 00:13:13 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, mcasadevall@ubuntu.com
Mar 05 00:13:17 <mattie_p>    NCommander I was trying to follow John's direction as best I could
Mar 05 00:13:18 <mrcoolbp>    yup
Mar 05 00:13:19 <paulej72>    mattie_p: and you were doing a great job under the circumstances
Mar 05 00:13:20 <MrBluze>    https://github.com/lfowles/jsonbot-plugins
Mar 05 00:13:39 <NCommander>    MrBluze, I'm not super familiar with jsonbot. I know a great meeting plug for eggdrop
Mar 05 00:13:43 <NCommander>    Will have to see what's available
Mar 05 00:13:46 <mrcoolbp>    paulej72: agreed
Mar 05 00:13:57 <NCommander>    At minimium, it needs to log, annouce topics, note action items, and handle voting
Mar 05 00:14:02 *    mrcoolbp goes to send email (BRB)
Mar 05 00:14:03 <MrBluze>    well im sure u can run whatever bot u want
Mar 05 00:14:14 <mrcoolbp>    voting bot!
Mar 05 00:14:16 <paulej72>    we need to have full access to the logs at any time
Mar 05 00:14:17 <NCommander>    If we need a seperate meeting bot, then so be it
Mar 05 00:14:22 <mattie_p>    If there is a consensus that I can participate in a management role, I'll continue, otherwise I'll go back to editing
Mar 05 00:14:31 <kobach>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mar 05 00:14:32 <NCommander>    paulej72, the logs should be public. For staff meetings, they're be recording #soylent
Mar 05 00:14:42 <audioguy>    Should go right to the mailing list archive, NCom
Mar 05 00:15:01 <NCommander>    audioguy, OH!, yes, agreed
Mar 05 00:15:04 <NCommander>    audioguy, sorry, brainfart
Mar 05 00:15:05 <mattie_p>    I never claimed to be perfect, but I was trying and I listened to feedback
Mar 05 00:15:08 <NCommander>    mattie_p, right now, this is your choice. For the moment, I've got it, but I will likely need you in the future.
Mar 05 00:15:19 <paulej72>    no access to the irc logs have been bugging me since we moved here from freenode
Mar 05 00:15:23 <mattie_p>    NCommander I'm your man whenever you need me
Mar 05 00:15:36 <audioguy>    audioguy WHACKS NCommander, with a GREAT sense of satisfaction
Mar 05 00:16:11 <NCommander>    mattie_p, awesome. Right now, I think you might enjoy a vacation in editing, and I'll recruit you when the workload goes BOOM (beside, I need someone to edit my posts!)
Mar 05 00:16:13 <mattie_p>    NCommander You know I never tried to overstep my bounds, so whatever I get is fine
Mar 05 00:16:15 *    cosurgi reads backlog. "Animal farm" lol!!! and where are the pigs? :)
Mar 05 00:16:16 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: is Stderr on this list? I don't have him
Mar 05 00:16:23 <NCommander>    mattie_p, you can stay as a manager, but it might be a bit slow
Mar 05 00:16:24 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, which list?
Mar 05 00:16:29 <mrcoolbp>    list of emails
Mar 05 00:16:36 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, I didn't compile the list
Mar 05 00:16:37 <mrcoolbp>    I have 23 people I think
Mar 05 00:16:39 <NCommander>    Hold on, I have his email
Mar 05 00:16:47 <stderr>    Me too...
Mar 05 00:16:55 <kobach>    do you have me
Mar 05 00:16:55 <kobach>    hi stderr
Mar 05 00:17:01 <mrcoolbp>    please give emails if you'd like to be involved people
Mar 05 00:17:11 <mrcoolbp>    this is private channel I assume
Mar 05 00:17:15 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, thats a problem. We can't ask the uninvolved people to please stand up
Mar 05 00:17:17 <mattie_p>    NCommander try to keep your posts sane, and I'll be happy to
Mar 05 00:17:17 <stderr>    What list are we talking about?
Mar 05 00:17:19 <mrcoolbp>    feel free to PM me
Mar 05 00:17:24 <paulej72>    ericpaul at princeton.edu  I opt in
Mar 05 00:17:33 <NCommander>    mattie_p, beware of wordy :-)
Mar 05 00:17:42 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: I need to know who to put in the list, that is up to you
Mar 05 00:17:49 <kobach>    afk migraine
Mar 05 00:17:51 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, everyone who has access to this channel
Mar 05 00:17:52 <mattie_p>    NCommander, you couldn't be un-wordy if you tried
Mar 05 00:18:05 <audioguy>    audioguy@demmers.org
Mar 05 00:18:12 <mrcoolbp>    they are here, that's why I'm asking them, is that what you wish?
Mar 05 00:18:17 <NCommander>    mattie_p, I was compiled with VERBOSE=9
Mar 05 00:18:27 <paulej72>    lol
Mar 05 00:18:30 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: they are here, that's why I'm asking them, is that what you wish?
Mar 05 00:18:33 *    mechanicjay has to head home
Mar 05 00:18:34 <stderr>    I prefer to use different email-address for different things, so I would like to know which list we're talking about before I give my address.
Mar 05 00:18:38 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, oh, you can leave them off :-)
Mar 05 00:18:46 <NCommander>    audioguy, paulej72: I believe we discussed this earlier, but were we more or less agreed that we were going to migrate to the github issue tracker, right?
Mar 05 00:18:58 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: as you wish
Mar 05 00:19:05 <mattie_p>    matthew.g.peck@gmail.com
Mar 05 00:19:08 <paulej72>    NCommander: I am Ok with this
Mar 05 00:19:11 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, just make sure they're on the master list for when we do the subscribe
Mar 05 00:19:13 <audioguy>    You change you email once you are on the list, as well.
Mar 05 00:19:19 <mrcoolbp>    got it
Mar 05 00:19:23 <NCommander>    paulej72, fusionforge didn't really work out all that great, so I rather scrap it and reclaim the node
Mar 05 00:19:26 *    mechanicjay has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
Mar 05 00:19:45 <mattie_p>    Yeah, no one liked fusion forge IIRC
Mar 05 00:19:48 <paulej72>    NCommander: we need to get those bugs migrated over first
Mar 05 00:19:54 <mrcoolbp>    Kobach, Stderr, please send me your email if you'd like to be included in the subscription, we are compiling staff list specifically right now
Mar 05 00:19:58 <audioguy>    I am fine with that becuase I am a conpletel newby with github and everything connected with it.
Mar 05 00:20:04 <NCommander>    paulej72, agreed. Do you want to volunteer, or shall I go hunting?
Mar 05 00:20:06 <NCommander>    :-)
Mar 05 00:20:25 <paulej72>    I volunteer
Mar 05 00:20:33 <stderr>    mrcoolbp: A staff list? Thanks. That's what I need to know... soylentnews-staff@stderr.dk
Mar 05 00:20:52 <mattie_p>    paulej72 my man
Mar 05 00:20:54 <NCommander>    stderr, mechaniacjay is getting mailman setup on an official box
Mar 05 00:20:59 <NCommander>    stderr, the production freeze is over
Mar 05 00:21:08 *    Cactus (~EBC@Soylent/Staff/Editor/Cactus) has joined #staff
Mar 05 00:21:08 *    buttercake gives channel operator status to Cactus
Mar 05 00:21:12 <paulej72>    NCommander: i would love to be able to categorize and close the bugs
Mar 05 00:21:22 <NCommander>    paulej72, give me a sec, I'll give you admin powers on fusionforge
Mar 05 00:21:26 <stderr>    NCommander: Ok.
Mar 05 00:21:31 <audioguy>    paul has been fixing many but he cannot cross them off
Mar 05 00:22:02 <NCommander>    paulej72, ugh, my bad. Sorry about that
Mar 05 00:22:07 <NCommander>    To hell with fusionforge
Mar 05 00:22:10 *    NCommander occassionally has bad ideas
Mar 05 00:22:39 <paulej72>    NCommander: Just give me access on GitHub, I do not need anything else on FF
Mar 05 00:22:41 <audioguy>    When you get it set up let me know, and I will start reading github docs. ;-)
Mar 05 00:22:49 <NCommander>    paulej72, hrm ...
Mar 05 00:23:55 <MrBluze>    if frogblast aware of all this?
Mar 05 00:23:56 <NCommander>    paulej72, hrm, I'm not admin
Mar 05 00:24:00 *    cosurg1 (janek@cueqwxyw.hell.pl) has joined #staff
Mar 05 00:24:00 *    buttercake sets ban on *!*@cueqwxyw.hell.pl
Mar 05 00:24:00 *    buttercake has kicked cosurg1 from #staff (You are not authorized to be on this channel)
Mar 05 00:24:02 <NCommander>    robinld, can you admin me on github
Mar 05 00:24:05 <NCommander>    O_o;
Mar 05 00:24:58 <NCommander>    paulej72, robinld is the only admin. Until he fixes my account, or adds you, we're slightly foobared
Mar 05 00:25:00 <paulej72>    we need a list of people who have the keys for each system
Mar 05 00:25:05 <NCommander>    !todo github admin access
Mar 05 00:25:05 <Cubert>    todo item 7 added
Mar 05 00:25:16 <NCommander>    paulej72, we've got an LDAP for that, but its a bit ... fuzzy
Mar 05 00:25:23 <NCommander>    !todo remove zford's SSH key from LDAP
Mar 05 00:25:23 <Cubert>    todo item 8 added
Mar 05 00:25:24 <NCommander>    Which reminds me
Mar 05 00:25:43 *    cosurgi lost network connection for 5 minutes
Mar 05 00:25:56 <MrBluze>    wb cosurgi
Mar 05 00:26:09 <mrcoolbp>    WB cosurgi
Mar 05 00:26:18 <NCommander>    wb cosurgi
Mar 05 00:26:19 <cosurgi>    what "WB" means?
Mar 05 00:26:21 <NCommander>    welcome back
Mar 05 00:26:25 <cosurgi>    ah :) thx.
Mar 05 00:26:33 <paulej72>    cosurgi: nothing much happened while you were gone
Mar 05 00:26:45 <cosurgi>    in fact I am really puzzled what's going on with this network. I'm writing to you right now from a box that cannot ping 8.8.8.8
Mar 05 00:27:08 <paulej72>    ddos on google?
Mar 05 00:27:12 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I can admin you on github. Do you want that now?
Mar 05 00:27:34 <NCommander>    Barrabas, yes please
Mar 05 00:27:42 <NCommander>    cosurgi, voodoo networking?
Mar 05 00:27:57 <NCommander>    Barrabas, er, Jon, https://github.com/orgs/SoylentNews/members - you're not even in the group
Mar 05 00:28:20 <cosurgi>    NCommander: apparently. This university network is pretty messed up.
Mar 05 00:28:28 <NCommander>    cosurgi, likely filtering ICMP ECHOs
Mar 05 00:28:52 <Barrabas>    NCommander: My name is "John".
Mar 05 00:29:03 <cosurgi>    it broke 5 minutes ago. And it's 28 minutes past midnight. So I don't think it's some university admin playing with network setup.
Mar 05 00:29:07 <paulej72>    aha so not to get ddosed
Mar 05 00:29:10 <mrcoolbp>    John: he's just following IRC convention
Mar 05 00:29:49 <mrcoolbp>    BRB guys
Mar 05 00:29:56 *    mrcoolbp goes to send the email
Mar 05 00:30:01 *    NCommander debates breakfast
Mar 05 00:30:21 <cosurgi>    mrcoolbp: you have my email, right? cosurgi@gmail.com
Mar 05 00:30:25 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, if you get no replies, assume the BCC got filtered. Also ask people on IRC if you can
Mar 05 00:30:32 <mrcoolbp>    yessir
Mar 05 00:30:37 <MrBluze>    u better eat, u got a lot ahead
Mar 05 00:30:47 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: on it
Mar 05 00:30:55 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, perfect
Mar 05 00:31:09 *    NCommander thinks he needs to go take a cigarette break
Mar 05 00:31:12 <NCommander>    !todo quit smoking
Mar 05 00:31:12 <Cubert>    todo item 9 added
Mar 05 00:32:22 *    FunPika has quit (Quit: Leaving)
Mar 05 00:32:35 <kobach>    mrcoolbp: hi2uall@gmail.com
Mar 05 00:33:07 <kobach>    mrcoolbp: put xlefay on it also
Mar 05 00:33:18 <kobach>    if hes not already
Mar 05 00:33:27 <mrcoolbp>    that's good to hear kobach, I'm happy to put him in
Mar 05 00:33:36 <mrcoolbp>    (he was in already)
Mar 05 00:33:47 <kobach>    ok cool
Mar 05 00:34:05 <kobach>    my intelligence seems to be mostly intact, but my head is imploding and i cant completely see straight
Mar 05 00:34:12 <kobach>    took an ibuprofin
Mar 05 00:34:17 <kobach>    hopefully thatll kick in soon
Mar 05 00:34:22 <mrcoolbp>    GL with that
Mar 05 00:34:25 <kobach>    rofl
Mar 05 00:34:33 <MrBluze>    drink plenty of water
Mar 05 00:34:42 <kobach>    yea i did, and doing so
Mar 05 00:35:13 <Barrabas>    *Sigh*. Can someone tell me how to make NCommander admin on GitHub? I can't seem to find the command/interface for it.
Mar 05 00:35:34 <cosurgi>    how do I join https://github.com/orgs/SoylentNews/members ? I already logged into github.
Mar 05 00:35:38 <paulej72>    xlefay mentioned yesterday he wanted to step back from running the irc stuff.  Does anyone know what his motivations were behind his decision?
Mar 05 00:35:58 <audioguy>    If Quentin Tarentino made a movie of this, it would show people cleaning up the bodies after the palace coup.
Mar 05 00:36:04 <MrBluze>    NCommander:  once u have gotten through your list, pls advise re: how u want art/style/interface/whatever-u-wanna-call-it will be arranged so i can get on and plan what i am gonna do
Mar 05 00:36:08 <kobach>    i havent heard anything of it, i was afk yesterday
Mar 05 00:36:19 <paulej72>    audioguy: lol
Mar 05 00:36:19 <MrBluze>    i spoke to him
Mar 05 00:36:21 <audioguy>    He said he needed help, too much to do for one person.
Mar 05 00:36:54 <MrBluze>    we have to make sure ppl dont burn out
Mar 05 00:36:57 <Barrabas>    Ah, found it! NCommander, you should be "owner" in the soylent project. You should have complete access now.
Mar 05 00:37:20 <Barrabas>    kobach: Does caffeine help?
Mar 05 00:37:32 <kobach>    Barrabas: havent tried it yet ;)
Mar 05 00:38:13 <Barrabas>    kobach: Seriously, the standard medivcine for migraines is "Caffergot", which is caffeine. Drink 2 cups of coffee and see if it helps.
Mar 05 00:38:19 <audioguy>    Caffeine helps up to the point it makes you paranoid as hell. ;-)
Mar 05 00:38:28 <cosurgi>    NCommander: my login on github is cosurgi, can you add me as a member to SoylentNews?
Mar 05 00:38:33 <kobach>    ok
Mar 05 00:38:52 <Barrabas>    cosurgi: I can make you a member. Is NCommander good with that?
Mar 05 00:38:57 <MrBluze>    migraine is good with metoclopramide, and imigran
Mar 05 00:39:03 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: sure, please do that.
Mar 05 00:39:29 <cosurgi>    err :) I'm sure he is. he probably went to smoke a cigarette right now.
Mar 05 00:39:49 <mrcoolbp>    he is smoking I believe
Mar 05 00:40:06 <mattie_p>    anyway, folks, either forum or wiki needs to go, since we're tossing stuff
Mar 05 00:40:12 <Barrabas>    mrcoolbp: I'm not surprised, given all the activity.
Mar 05 00:40:15 <mattie_p>    including me
Mar 05 00:40:20 <mrcoolbp>    I say the forun
Mar 05 00:40:25 <mattie_p>    might as well clear the dead wood out
Mar 05 00:40:30 *    cosurgi never used forum TBH
Mar 05 00:40:37 <mrcoolbp>    !Vote Forum
Mar 05 00:40:44 *    MrBluze never used forum either
Mar 05 00:40:54 <kobach>    NOR I
Mar 05 00:40:56 *    kobach steps up
Mar 05 00:40:56 <paulej72>    fourm--
Mar 05 00:40:56 <Cubert>    karma - fourm: -1
Mar 05 00:41:05 <mrcoolbp>    okay for realz: BRB
Mar 05 00:41:13 <audioguy>    I never did, because it seemed like it had little use.
Mar 05 00:41:28 <audioguy>    I want one central place.
Mar 05 00:41:32 <Landon>    NCommander: if you've got an eggdrop with the meeting plugin running, shove it in here :)
Mar 05 00:42:34 *    MrBluze back in a few min
Mar 05 00:42:35 <Landon>    !todo meeting plugin
Mar 05 00:42:35 <Cubert>    todo item 26 added
Mar 05 00:42:56 <Landon>    jsonbot is just around because it looked like a fun hacking platform with the ncessary support for having user permissions
Mar 05 00:43:01 <Landon>    (and python)
Mar 05 00:43:45 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: are you waiting for NCommander with adding me to SoylentNews/members ? :)
Mar 05 00:44:05 *    LaminatorX (~6158adc1@Soylent/Staff/Editor/LaminatorX) has joined #staff
Mar 05 00:44:05 *    buttercake gives channel operator status to LaminatorX
Mar 05 00:45:15 <paulej72>    cosurgi: we should wait for NCommander as we do not know who he wants to have direct access to the repo.  I have been submitting my code as pull requests from my forked private repp.
Mar 05 00:45:26 <cosurgi>    ah, ok.
Mar 05 00:45:30 <cosurgi>    good point.
Mar 05 00:45:37 <LaminatorX>    What did I miss?
Mar 05 00:45:46 <kobach>    not much
Mar 05 00:46:07 <paulej72>    cosurgi: not to say you will not get access.
Mar 05 00:46:14 <mattie_p>    we're all fired and re-hired in somewhat the same spots
Mar 05 00:46:16 <cosurgi>    LaminatorX: except that we had a riot and a revolution :)
Mar 05 00:46:29 <cosurgi>    paulej72: sure I get the point. Pull requests are just as good.
Mar 05 00:46:33 <Barrabas>    cosurgi: I am.
Mar 05 00:46:35 *    xlefay (~xlefay@Soylent/Users/65/xlefay) has joined #staff
Mar 05 00:46:50 <LaminatorX>    Right.
Mar 05 00:46:53 <paulej72>    wb xlefay
Mar 05 00:46:58 <kobach>    lolol
Mar 05 00:47:02 *    MrBluze has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
Mar 05 00:47:07 *    kobach slaps xlefay
Mar 05 00:47:17 <xlefay>    Danke!
Mar 05 00:47:25 <kobach>    yer welcome
Mar 05 00:47:26 <kobach>    :p
Mar 05 00:47:28 <paulej72>    xlefay: I would suggest reading the logs of this channel for the past 3 hours or so.
Mar 05 00:47:38 <xlefay>    There are no logs for this channel ;)
Mar 05 00:47:45 <paulej72>    fuck
Mar 05 00:47:48 <xlefay>    but that's ok
Mar 05 00:47:51 <paulej72>    I forgot
Mar 05 00:47:57 <xlefay>    I've got a pretty good idea
Mar 05 00:48:01 <Landon>    the revolution will not be televised
Mar 05 00:48:24 <mattie_p>    too bad, I cut a fierce image
Mar 05 00:48:36 *    stderr packs the camera away again...
Mar 05 00:48:52 <LaminatorX>    It's true, I have seen him.
Mar 05 00:50:06 <NCommander>    paulej72, cosurgi: so my rule on landing code is it has to be signed off by someone beside who wrote it. I have others review my code before I push it
Mar 05 00:50:31 <NCommander>    paulej72, so direct commit access lets you review, but you should always send pull request so someone else can sign off
Mar 05 00:50:39 <cosurgi>    xlefay: I have full logs.
Mar 05 00:50:56 <NCommander>    xlefay, wb
Mar 05 00:51:10 <stderr>    I think I got logs too.
Mar 05 00:51:12 <paulej72>    NCommander: I am fine working that way
Mar 05 00:51:13 <xlefay>    thx NCommander | cosurgi: that's not required, I've got a pretty good idea
Mar 05 00:51:34 *    NCommander needs to figure out who exactly is staff, and get teams organized
Mar 05 00:51:35 <audioguy>    People not here need to be able to read the logs, asap.
Mar 05 00:51:41 <LaminatorX>    I wouldn't mind seeing the logs. To get caught up.
Mar 05 00:51:55 <kobach>    ^^^
Mar 05 00:52:00 <paulej72>    Yes the logs need to be kept
Mar 05 00:52:01 <xlefay>    audioguy: still waiting for the bot to get it's ass on Github.
Mar 05 00:52:22 <LaminatorX>    I left at kind of a serious moment.
Mar 05 00:52:29 <kobach>    lol
Mar 05 00:52:32 <mattie_p>    NCommander: that doc was almost complete, but mrcoolbp should have the mostly complete list
Mar 05 00:52:33 <audioguy>    I have them - maybe one person should be in charge of getting those logs to people for the nex 24 hours.
Mar 05 00:52:51 <kobach>    patstebin?
Mar 05 00:52:58 <kobach>    err
Mar 05 00:52:58 <audioguy>    Ot get the mailing list up and send them out.
Mar 05 00:52:59 <stderr>    Lisa: Hey, a letter from my pen-pal, Anya.
Mar 05 00:52:59 <stderr>    Anya: [reading, Anya narrates] Dear Lisa, as I write this, I am very sad. Our President has been overthrown and...
Mar 05 00:52:59 <stderr>    [Voice changes]
Mar 05 00:52:59 <stderr>    General Krull: ...replaced, by the benevolent General Krull. All hail Krull, and his glorious regime. Sincerly... little girl.
Mar 05 00:53:05 <kobach>    paste*
Mar 05 00:53:26 <kobach>    stderr: ?
Mar 05 00:53:26 <NCommander>    mattie_p, indeed. I think the first order of business is a soundoff once we get everyone on the list
Mar 05 00:53:31 <Barrabas>    LaminatorX: NCommander is in charge, and his garden is littered with the bodies of those who opposed him.
Mar 05 00:53:32 <paulej72>    stderr:  lol I can even hear the voices
Mar 05 00:53:39 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: just thinking the same thing
Mar 05 00:53:46 <stderr>    kobach: Simpsons... Nevermind. :-)
Mar 05 00:53:49 <mrcoolbp>    Barrabas: hahaha
Mar 05 00:53:50 *    mattie_p is dead as well
Mar 05 00:53:59 <mrcoolbp>    Awww I liked him
Mar 05 00:54:10 <mattie_p>    I didn't.  He was a jerk
Mar 05 00:54:11 <Barrabas>    His cabbage garden has a few more heads ATM...
Mar 05 00:54:13 <audioguy>    Hail Caesar! is the order of the day. ;-)
Mar 05 00:54:23 <mrcoolbp>    Point of order: Zford may actually be a body in that garden
Mar 05 00:54:30 <kobach>    lol
Mar 05 00:54:40 <audioguy>    Sorry.
Mar 05 00:54:41 <mattie_p>    I would have recommended to Barrabas we fire him today anyway
Mar 05 00:55:00 <mattie_p>    !communication 4-5 days, missed staff meeting
Mar 05 00:55:02 <mattie_p>    sorry
Mar 05 00:55:07 <mattie_p>    overlords need to do better
Mar 05 00:55:30 <kobach>    catherders
Mar 05 00:55:39 <mattie_p>    I guess if my managerial style was better I'd have done it myself
Mar 05 00:55:47 <mattie_p>    we weren't catherders at the time
Mar 05 00:55:53 <kobach>    true
Mar 05 00:56:23 *    MrBluze (~daniel@Soylent/Staff/IRC/MrBluze) has joined #staff
Mar 05 00:56:23 *    buttercake gives channel operator status to MrBluze
Mar 05 00:56:55 <Barrabas>    Someone should put up a post on the newsfeed about the coup. I'd like a nice tombstons on the wiki - something out of Lovecraft or GirlGenius, please.
Mar 05 00:57:13 <kobach>    looool
Mar 05 00:57:50 <Barrabas>    (Not making that up.) In reference to Trotsky, this is why I've never told anyone about my family. :-)
Mar 05 00:58:34 <mattie_p>    Maybe I should respond to our Q/A I just posted today
Mar 05 00:58:35 <audioguy>    Nice try Barrabas. But do you REALLY know where each of them is, RIGHT NEW?
Mar 05 00:58:40 <audioguy>    RIGHT NOW?
Mar 05 00:58:50 <LaminatorX>    Shame about Trotsky.
Mar 05 00:59:14 <kobach>    mattie_p: that sounds good
Mar 05 00:59:22 <kobach>    everyone will be looking there anyway
Mar 05 00:59:37 <mattie_p>    I'll tell everyone to look for a new post soon
Mar 05 00:59:52 <mattie_p>    We will probably want regular posts from this point out
Mar 05 00:59:59 <mattie_p>    every couple of days
Mar 05 01:00:08 <mattie_p>    ^^ suggestion
Mar 05 01:00:18 <Barrabas>    audioguy: My minor in college was security, I kept the secret from my relatives for 35 years (including my parents), and only two relatives now I have a family *at all*, and that's because of my will. I think I'm safe.
Mar 05 01:00:30 <cosurgi>    xlefay LaminatorX : http://www.pg.gda.pl/~jkozicki/irc/2014.03.04.staff  http://www.pg.gda.pl/~jkozicki/irc/2014.03.05.staff
Mar 05 01:01:16 <mrcoolbp>    !Suggestion New post every couple of days re: updates
Mar 05 01:01:17 <mattie_p>    Anyway, I'm going to step out for a while, as this continues to shake loose
Mar 05 01:01:17 <cosurgi>    everyone: the logs of government being overthrown: http://www.pg.gda.pl/~jkozicki/irc
Mar 05 01:01:30 <mattie_p>    I'll post something, not sure what yet, it that thread
Mar 05 01:01:30 <cosurgi>    everyone: the logs of government being overthrown:  http://www.pg.gda.pl/~jkozicki/irc
Mar 05 01:01:40 <audioguy>    Sure, you are. Now wondering if NCommander is... ;-)
Mar 05 01:01:49 *    Landon has changed the topic to: Holy crap revolution, http://www.pg.gda.pl/~jkozicki/irc
Mar 05 01:02:34 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: I have a list of tasks I'm working on, and mattie_p was working on a master list
Mar 05 01:02:40 <paulej72>    when I see catherders I keep reading catheters.
Mar 05 01:02:54 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: you should review these at some point
Mar 05 01:03:06 <audioguy>    I really didn't need that in my mind/
Mar 05 01:03:08 *    LaminatorX has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
Mar 05 01:03:09 <mrcoolbp>    NCommander: so we can prioritize
Mar 05 01:03:19 <cosurgi>    paulej72: actually I've just though 'cathedrals' (and a baazar) :)
Mar 05 01:03:55 <paulej72>    !todo
Mar 05 01:03:55 <Cubert>    todo for paulej72: 1) change Read More to button. 2) kill all users 3) Kill D2 4) fix all buttons to have proper case. 5) fuck todo list? 6) bug 48 fix log in screen ul list 7) fix bug #68 some links are worn color in comment details 8) trace JS loads to fix JS resize of certain elements on mobil devices. 9) style blockquote and see what is up with quote 10) add hyperlink - 2 more
Mar 05 01:03:59 <paulej72>    !more
Mar 05 01:03:59 <Cubert>     to article story title to story page per bug 106 11) style input boxes to have better border contrast per bug 107 12) add night mode skin per 112 13) make sure it is Log In and Log Out per bug 116 14) fix journal template to fix broken link title tex per bug 118 15) fix preference pages per many bugs 16) fix relationships ui as per bug 37 17) add xlefay and martyb to qa when - 1 more
Mar 05 01:04:01 <audioguy>    The catheter and the bazaar
Mar 05 01:04:15 <audioguy>    NEw open source meme.
Mar 05 01:05:05 <paulej72>    !more
Mar 05 01:05:06 <Cubert>     it it setup
Mar 05 01:05:09 <NCommander>    !todo
Mar 05 01:05:10 <Cubert>    todo for ncommander: 1) make sure install-slashsite installs proper schema 2) port slash to mod_perl 2 3) Linode migration across accounts - ask support 4) operating system decision - schedule for next week 5) rewrite org chart 6) get name change discussion rolling 7) github admin access 8) remove zford's SSH key from LDAP 9) quit smoking
Mar 05 01:05:12 *    cosurgi has changed the topic to: Holy crap revolution, http://www.pg.gda.pl/~jkozicki/irc  start with 2014.03.04.staff at 21:47
Mar 05 01:05:13 <NCommander>    !todo-done 8
Mar 05 01:05:14 <Cubert>    1 item deleted
Mar 05 01:05:48 <xlefay>    mattie_p: pm pretty please?
Mar 05 01:05:55 <kobach>    no
Mar 05 01:05:58 <kobach>    :p
Mar 05 01:06:02 <MrBluze>    Is frogblast on staff?
Mar 05 01:06:03 <NCommander>    shit
Mar 05 01:06:05 <NCommander>    need breakfast
Mar 05 01:06:06 <NCommander>    BBL
Mar 05 01:06:12 <kobach>    brb, checking pork
Mar 05 01:06:13 <mrcoolbp>    and there he goes
Mar 05 01:06:13 <cosurgi>    and I need sleep
Mar 05 01:06:16 <cosurgi>    seriously.
Mar 05 01:06:26 *    LaminatorX (~6158adc1@Soylent/Staff/Editor/LaminatorX) has joined #staff
Mar 05 01:06:26 *    buttercake gives channel operator status to LaminatorX

Staff IRC Transcript, Part 1

Posted by NCommander on Friday March 07 2014, @01:46AM (#149)
1 Comment
Code
Mar 04 21:14:39 <mattie_p>    I'm discussing with Barrabas
Mar 04 21:14:52 <LaminatorX>    How's it going?
Mar 04 21:14:53 <mattie_p>    we're getting some good feedback in the latest soylentnews post I made
Mar 04 21:15:13 <mattie_p>    there are some emails being exchanged as well
Mar 04 21:15:34 <mattie_p>    I think we're going to make a decision in the next week or so
Mar 04 21:15:41 <mattie_p>    soliciting feedback in advance
Mar 04 21:15:51 <mattie_p>    and be cleared to implement after that
Mar 04 21:17:23 <LaminatorX>    Could drafts go on the wiki or the business forum? I think out of site comms are at the root of a lot ouf the tensions floating around, I think.
Mar 04 21:17:59 *    Barrabas (~chatzilla@Soylent/Staff/Barrabas) has joined #staff
Mar 04 21:17:59 *    buttercake gives channel operator status to Barrabas
Mar 04 21:18:04 <mattie_p>    we don't have drafts of bylaws or anything yet, but drafts will be crowdsourced
Mar 04 21:18:05 <LaminatorX>    People worry in the absence of information.
Mar 04 21:18:27 <mattie_p>    In this case, the absence of information is evidence of absence
Mar 04 21:18:45 <mattie_p>    That was one reason I pushed to get the interview out
Mar 04 21:18:57 <mattie_p>    even incomplete (NCommander and Dopefish owe us some stuff)
Mar 04 21:19:52 <mattie_p>    Hey, Barrabas
Mar 04 21:20:07 <Barrabas>    What's up?
Mar 04 21:20:27 <mattie_p>    not much, just listening to my class podcast and checking IRC
Mar 04 21:20:41 <mattie_p>    thanks for the response via email, you saw we have your answers posted
Mar 04 21:20:58 <cosurgi>    I convinced NCommander to look at MathJax :)
Mar 04 21:21:06 <Barrabas>    Yup. Others have answers also, yes?
Mar 04 21:21:34 <mattie_p>    Yes, Dopefish and NCommander also have sections
Mar 04 21:21:38 <Barrabas>    I've implemented MathJax on my own site. It's not terribly difficult, and works well.
Mar 04 21:21:43 <mattie_p>    It will be a serial, with parts 2 and 3
Mar 04 21:22:18 <Barrabas>    I sent off an E-mail to EFF asking for recommendations of lawyers in my area. I need to nail down the business aspects real soon.
Mar 04 21:23:09 <Landon>    mattie_p: a class podcast, goodness
Mar 04 21:23:36 <mattie_p>    I'm taking it online, so they tape lectures from last semester and pump them out
Mar 04 21:24:00 <Landon>    ah
Mar 04 21:24:05 <mattie_p>    I've only listened to half of them so far and still have an "a" average, but I figured it might be useful for this lesson
Mar 04 21:24:09 <Landon>    I took podcast to mean audio :)
Mar 04 21:24:25 <Landon>    all of my lectures are online too... 8 behind right now, not a good feeling
Mar 04 21:24:32 <mattie_p>    podcast = everything, as far as I am concerned
Mar 04 21:24:44 <Barrabas>    So tell me - in the passage about masturbation, how many times is masturbation mentioned compared to the number of times having "mold in your cellar" mentioned?
Mar 04 21:24:52 <mattie_p>    hah, and I used the word "tape" as well
Mar 04 21:24:57 <mattie_p>    no tapes involved, I'm sure
Mar 04 21:24:59 <cosurgi>    are we all here employed at universities?
Mar 04 21:25:04 *    cosurgi raises hand.
Mar 04 21:25:10 <Landon>    not I
Mar 04 21:25:14 <kobach>    LOL
Mar 04 21:25:27 <kobach>    nein
Mar 04 21:25:30 <mattie_p>    nope
Mar 04 21:25:36 <Barrabas>    Not I
Mar 04 21:25:44 *    mechanicjay raises hand
Mar 04 21:25:45 <Barrabas>    Iye
Mar 04 21:25:58 <mattie_p>    Barrabas, was that question for me?
Mar 04 21:26:05 <cosurgi>    ok. I must have misunderstood that pat about you giving lectures :)
Mar 04 21:26:10 <cosurgi>    s/pat/part/g
Mar 04 21:26:43 <Barrabas>    mattie_p: yes. It's a questio about the literal interpretation of the Bible.
Mar 04 21:27:03 <mattie_p>    oh, I lost my literalness about the same time I lost my virginity
Mar 04 21:27:33 <mattie_p>    But when I discuss religion I like to bring up every word that Jesus said about homosexuality
Mar 04 21:27:46 <mattie_p>    when I speak to literalists
Mar 04 21:27:50 <cosurgi>    ok. bibble, virginity & masturbation. I'm outta this ;>
Mar 04 21:28:24 *    cosurgi prefers Maxwell's equations and Newton's laws.
Mar 04 21:28:45 <mattie_p>    I like them too.  That's what helped me stop being literal
Mar 04 21:28:51 <mattie_p>    Science++
Mar 04 21:28:51 <Cubert>    karma - science: 1
Mar 04 21:29:00 <Barrabas>    Curiously, if you look at the original words used, you notice that Mark (IIRC) uses the same word to describe himself. In his context it was taken to mean "outlier" (as in "political extremist"), whild in the other context it was taken to mean "homosexual".
Mar 04 21:31:31 <Barrabas>    cosurgi: Quick question. How do we know that Newton's law of gravitation is right?
Mar 04 21:31:57 <LaminatorX>    Barrabas, have you been in contact with member Appalbarry? He's got some considerable expertise in this area: http://forums.soylentnews.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=44&sid=0a6380d791c82fa0ef822e3db80acd40#p387
Mar 04 21:32:11 <Landon>    wait, are we still talking about masturbation?
Mar 04 21:32:15 *    Landon runs
Mar 04 21:32:59 *    LaminatorX works in broadcasting, but does teach night classes at a community college.
Mar 04 21:33:25 <Barrabas>    Bah. Forums aren't letting me in right now. 'stupid cookies!
Mar 04 21:33:47 <Landon>    Barrabas: this should help .. http://cookieclicker.org
Mar 04 21:34:21 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: It is an approximation of general relativity, which has been confirmed by experimental observations with great accuracy, like 10^-12 orders of magnitude precise.
Mar 04 21:34:24 <LaminatorX>    Summary: years of experience with non-profs. We're teetring on the brink of some typical pitfalls at the moment.
Mar 04 21:34:44 <Barrabas>    I can't type right now anyway. I hurt my thumb last week, and am doing 5 more min of MT.
Mar 04 21:34:49 <LaminatorX>    It's be nice if we could avoid the sort of rookie mistakes that often doom groups like ours.
Mar 04 21:36:07 <Barrabas>    LaminatorX: Can you be more specific? What mistakes are we making?
Mar 04 21:36:14 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: without general relativity the GPS in your car would be off by hundreds of meters. So even you GPS is confirming Newton's law of gravitation :)
Mar 04 21:36:17 <LaminatorX>    I suggest bringing him in at least an official advisory capacity, included on staff/business/etc discussions.
Mar 04 21:36:19 <cosurgi>    s/you/your/g
Mar 04 21:36:58 <Landon>    cosurgi: I might be missing context, but if the GPS was purely following newton's laws, it would be off hundreds of meters, right?
Mar 04 21:38:04 <Barrabas>    cosurgi: Here's an alternative solution: Instead of dividing by D^2, suppose it's really (1 + D^2). If the "1" was assigned a very small unit, how would we know the difference?
Mar 04 21:38:16 <LaminatorX>    <yoda>Communication breakdowns->lack of coordination->wasted-effort->frustration->ire->etc</yoda>
Mar 04 21:38:32 <cosurgi>    Landon: hmm... funny. It doesn't make sense. But if you want it to make sense, then you are right. Netwon's law of gravitations is just a nonrelativistic approximation of general relativity. And general relativity (in case of GPS: the time dilation) is what makes GPS work.
Mar 04 21:38:38 <LaminatorX>    We saw it in the meeting.
Mar 04 21:39:12 <LaminatorX>    We don't want to become those typical revolutionaries who turn on eachother and fall apart in the aftermath.
Mar 04 21:40:29 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: we wouldn't. Until we make an experiment precise enough to discover this. That's how science and process of falsification works: if something was tested 10000 times and it works, it is assumed to be true. If on 10001th try it stops working, then it is clear that it is false, and a new theory must be discovered.
Mar 04 21:40:46 <Barrabas>    OK, MT is done. Let me point out a few things. 1) I've got a physics major, 2) I *love* stirring the pot and seeing how people react, 3) GPS works by Newton's laws, 4) GPS is *adjusted* to account for Newton's laws, but it's minor and cumulative, and 5) Variations in the speed oflight in atmosphere (mostly due to variations in moisture content) have a much larger effect on the instantaneous...
Mar 04 21:40:47 <Barrabas>    ...signal than GR effects.
Mar 04 21:41:37 *    LaminatorX finds the physics discussion interesting but wonders if it might better belong on the general chat channel, rather than on #staff.
Mar 04 21:41:39 <cosurgi>    so you caught me wrong on one point :)
Mar 04 21:42:11 <cosurgi>    right, I forgot about atmosphere, sorry.
Mar 04 21:42:29 <cosurgi>    btw, what is "MT" ?
Mar 04 21:43:22 <Barrabas>    LaminatorX: Every time I try to hit that link it asks me to log in. Any idea why that is?
Mar 04 21:43:47 <Barrabas>    MT => Medical therapy. I'm hitting it (my thumb) with IR to speed the healing process. (It's an experiment.)
Mar 04 21:44:03 <cosurgi>    ok :)
Mar 04 21:44:03 *    mechanicjay has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
Mar 04 21:44:38 <LaminatorX>    That hapenned to me too. try a different browser I think there's something browsers are caching that hasn't worked with the server migration.
Mar 04 21:44:42 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: hm, I'm pretty convinced that time dilation plays big role, because the satellites on the orbit have quite high speed. But we can leave it for now.
Mar 04 21:44:43 <Barrabas>    cosurgi: http://www.journeyofhealth.net/energytherapy/layout/images/HotHouse/Augmentation_of_Wound_Healing.pdf
Mar 04 21:44:49 *    mechanicjay (~jhowe@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mechanicjay) has joined #staff
Mar 04 21:44:49 *    buttercake gives channel operator status to mechanicjay
Mar 04 21:45:43 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: oh, interesting. I have a wound to heal too. Might try IR as well.
Mar 04 21:46:03 <Barrabas>    cosurgi: Here's the thing. If the denominator is (1+D^2), then there's *no* pole when D goes to zero. Black holes and other weird constructs are then completely analytic.
Mar 04 21:46:20 <cosurgi>    true.
Mar 04 21:46:38 <cosurgi>    and we don't know. Which is pretty interesting and funny :)
Mar 04 21:46:55 <cosurgi>    but, maybe we should focus on altslashdot :)
Mar 04 21:47:00 <LaminatorX>    Seriously, I love physics, but could you please take that to #Soylent instead of #staff.
Mar 04 21:47:23 <cosurgi>    LaminatorX: ditto.
Mar 04 21:47:43 <Barrabas>    cosurgi: I'm using one of these: http://www.theledman.com/handheld.html
Mar 04 21:48:20 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: so getting back to topic can you brief us on general progress?
Mar 04 21:48:22 <Barrabas>    cosurgi: It does play a role, and it's cumulative. It's just small relative to the instantaneous signal variation.
Mar 04 21:48:54 <Barrabas>    cosurgi: General progress is that I'm not completely burnt out. That's a plus :-)
Mar 04 21:49:01 <cosurgi>    good :)
Mar 04 21:49:16 <Barrabas>    cosurgi: I'm starting the "business/financial" aspects. We need that in place, and pretty fast.
Mar 04 21:49:28 <Barrabas>    I'm letting everything else take care of itself.
Mar 04 21:50:06 <Barrabas>    Grrrr... I never get to have any fun. Oh well.
Mar 04 21:50:26 <Barrabas>    LaminatorX: To reiterate, what mistakes are we making that you referred to previously.
Mar 04 21:50:48 <LaminatorX>    I fear that everything else is not  going to take care of itself unless we up our coordination and communication game more or less immediately.
Mar 04 21:51:15 <mattie_p>    Sorry, had a phone call
Mar 04 21:51:27 <mattie_p>    Barrabas, catching up, haven't learned Greek yet, this is my first class
Mar 04 21:51:53 <Barrabas>    LaminatorX: OK, I got the forum in another browser. Reading it now.
Mar 04 21:51:57 *    mattie_p comes out of the closet.  I am a closet student in seminary.
Mar 04 21:52:13 <mattie_p>    I'm still cool though, you won't see me proseletyzing
Mar 04 21:52:28 <mattie_p>    if you want to discuss, I'm fine with that
Mar 04 21:52:32 <LaminatorX>    I think our team structures aren't functioning in a healthy way. We've managed to get the site running, which is no small triumph, but unless we get our organazational problems worked out PDQ they're going to tear us apart.
Mar 04 21:53:38 <mattie_p>    LaminatorX: I've got mrcoolbp working on communication mechanism, I'm working on building the team structure
Mar 04 21:53:48 <mattie_p>    I like what the editors are doing, with their meetings
Mar 04 21:53:55 <mattie_p>    other groups should be meeting regularly as well
Mar 04 21:53:58 <Barrabas>    Being concerned with sects, mattie proselytizes strange men on the street.
Mar 04 21:54:23 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: please try to be constructive.
Mar 04 21:54:25 <mattie_p>    Barrabas: being concerned with sex, I prefer to encounter my wife
Mar 04 21:54:38 <mattie_p>    anyway
Mar 04 21:54:48 <janrinok>    Any eds around - Can you tell me if my 21:05 (GnuTLS bug) requires such a quick release, or should I just queue it as normal?
Mar 04 21:55:03 <mattie_p>    Laminatorx, I'm working with the overlords on their own groups individually
Mar 04 21:55:05 <LaminatorX>    Critical TLS bug? Post immediately.
Mar 04 21:55:11 <janrinok>    Done
Mar 04 21:55:18 <Barrabas>    LaminatorX: Can you be specific? What problems are people having, can you cite examples?
Mar 04 21:55:54 <LaminatorX>    Have you put any thought into overlord meetings, perhaps every other day, to facillitate better coordination between the teams?
Mar 04 21:56:20 <mattie_p>    I have, but scheduling is a problem
Mar 04 21:56:27 <mattie_p>    I've been doing most of the coordination myself
Mar 04 21:56:46 <mattie_p>    NCommander's travel schedule has been ... inconvenient
Mar 04 21:56:54 <Barrabas>    LaminatorX: Is there a problem to be addressed? I'm aware of one problem so far, and we're working to resolve that. Otherwise, have there been complaints?
Mar 04 21:57:07 <LaminatorX>    Major obvious example: the dev/sys OS dispute. I'm not taking a side on the merits, but if we'd been talking to one another effectively, it wouldn't have come to a head like that.
Mar 04 21:57:18 <NCommander>    janrinok, quick release it
Mar 04 21:57:21 <Barrabas>    LaminatorX: That's the one problem we're working on.
Mar 04 21:57:28 <Barrabas>    LaminatorX: Anything else?
Mar 04 21:58:05 <LaminatorX>    Similarly, I'm at a loss as to where to begin as far as coordinating content's needs with sys and dev. Other than bugging people at random, I don't know where to begin.
Mar 04 21:58:22 <NCommander>    Our communication and team layout is IMHO fundamentally broken
Mar 04 21:58:27 <NCommander>    And the wiki doesn't match reality anymore
Mar 04 21:59:40 <LaminatorX>    There are existing project and change management principles that are meant to handle things like what we're doing here, and we're not using them, or any alternative mechanisms that I can see.
Mar 04 21:59:45 <cosurgi>    NCommander: can you provide some examples? (I take care of wiki, so I'd be glad to hear).
Mar 04 21:59:56 *    mattie_p listens as well
Mar 04 22:00:13 *    Barrabas also listening
Mar 04 22:00:23 <LaminatorX>    that I can see, I don't know what might be quietly going on out of site. I'll give the benefot of the doubt. We're in a mostly goodwill environment here.
Mar 04 22:00:31 <NCommander>    Right now, the sys team is listed as "Code", the Frontend guys should be under dev, as well as art as ulimtately it has to go in via git, and needs to be cooridinated
Mar 04 22:00:41 <LaminatorX>    The out of site thing is a big part of the problem though.
Mar 04 22:00:54 <NCommander>    We've got far too many methods to communicate via, and no mailing list to cooridiate or regular staff meetings
Mar 04 22:01:12 <Barrabas>    Frontend belongs in code, but code got really big. It was moved to style to even the load.
Mar 04 22:01:15 <NCommander>    We have no one providing DIRECTION
Mar 04 22:01:55 <NCommander>    Barrabas, irrelveant. Its all code in the end, and if the team is too large (and right now, it aint', no more than 12 which is the max for ICS), I can deligate
Mar 04 22:02:14 <NCommander>    Our org chart looks like a 2 year old came and rearranged all the names
Mar 04 22:02:53 <NCommander>    furthermore, the fundamental bubble issue exists because there isn't anyone takig charge of the project. There is no direction, too many people pulling at once in directions with no one controlling them
Mar 04 22:02:55 <cosurgi>    true. There are too many channels of communications. In fact I didn't even create forum login for me, because I think that IRC+wiki is enough for me. But indeed I am much more used to mailing lists than forums. And - strangely - we have no mailing list. Where in fact we could use only mailing list for communications.
Mar 04 22:03:01 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I haven't gone on hiatus with the rest of the dev team. I was really fried, and yesterday was my first day off. Is there ANY(!) chance we can not devolve into internecine fighting until I catch my breath PLEASE???
Mar 04 22:03:27 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I don't see how this is fighting. THese are fundamental issues I raised weeks ago, and nothing has been done.
Mar 04 22:03:47 <mattie_p>    Arguments happen when they happen, Barrabas, if we need to discuss now then we do so
Mar 04 22:03:59 <mattie_p>    Its part of why I brought up the sys/dev issue on Sunday
Mar 04 22:04:05 <NCommander>    our last email exchange completely failed to address the fundamental problem, and as I stated I'm willing to talk with w/ zford (who has been now idle 5 days)
Mar 04 22:04:26 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Is there NO WAY I CAN CONVINCE YOU to just GIVE IT A REST for a week or so? You're in China, for gosh's sake.
Mar 04 22:05:10 <cosurgi>    weird. please no shouting.
Mar 04 22:05:40 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I'm not taking this to PM.
Mar 04 22:05:46 *    Barrabas (~chatzilla@Soylent/Staff/Barrabas) has left #staff
Mar 04 22:05:50 <NCommander>    Or ...
Mar 04 22:05:51 <NCommander>    Well
Mar 04 22:05:59 *    Barrabas (~chatzilla@Soylent/Staff/Barrabas) has joined #staff
Mar 04 22:05:59 *    buttercake gives channel operator status to Barrabas
Mar 04 22:06:03 <cosurgi>    even weirder?
Mar 04 22:06:10 <Barrabas>    Sorry - network problems.
Mar 04 22:06:12 <LaminatorX>    Phase one was build a site. Phase two is organization and governmance. Phase three is build the future.  We need to make phase two happen so that we have mechanisms in place to adress this sort of conflict other than drama on IRC.
Mar 04 22:07:01 <cosurgi>    yep. mailing lists encourage much more civilised discussion, because you have time to think on what you want to write.
Mar 04 22:07:18 <Barrabas>    LaminatorX: We have an "arbiter" of sorts, a professional manager, who is mediating the argument. Is there something else you think we should be doing?
Mar 04 22:07:22 <NCommander>    Barrabas, uh, robinld said he rather us stay on Ubuntu because its working. Like hell its settled. Its deadlocked, and not taking in account any other teams. I don't know how you can tell me this is settled.
Mar 04 22:07:38 <LaminatorX>    They're silo'd though. Nobody sees who isn't on the list. Problems fester behind the cutrain.
Mar 04 22:08:12 <cosurgi>    what "silo'd" means? (I thought I know english weel:)
Mar 04 22:08:27 <Barrabas>    NCommander: If robin said that to you, then he's changed his position since he talked to me.
Mar 04 22:08:41 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I'll pull the backlog
Mar 04 22:09:01 <Barrabas>    Better is to ask robin to respond directly.
Mar 04 22:09:03 <NCommander>    Barrabas, his exact words were he prefers CentOS, but doesn't want to change it because its already working on Ubuntu
Mar 04 22:09:15 <cosurgi>    silo'd == independent?
Mar 04 22:09:17 <LaminatorX>    The information is locked in stacks that can't be seen from the outside, ctirically people don't have the information they need because they're not on the list.
Mar 04 22:09:24 <robinld>    hey
Mar 04 22:09:25 <robinld>    so
Mar 04 22:09:26 <robinld>    what I said
Mar 04 22:09:33 <NCommander>    robinld, oh good, you're here
Mar 04 22:09:37 <mattie_p>    cosurgi basically means that no one talks to people outside their group or silo
Mar 04 22:09:52 <cosurgi>    mattie_p: thx
Mar 04 22:09:53 <robinld>    I'd prefer centOS -- BUT -- since we're already running on ubuntu I don't see a point in changing UNLESS we were going to do a whole re-architecting anyway
Mar 04 22:10:13 <robinld>    hope that's clear...
Mar 04 22:10:25 <Barrabas>    robinld: Zak's alreaty gor CentOS provisioned, and wants to keep the servers that way. What's your take?
Mar 04 22:10:34 <NCommander>    Barrabas, servers that aren't sed or doing anything.
Mar 04 22:10:37 <robinld>    Barrabas, is that where the production env is running?
Mar 04 22:10:39 <NCommander>    *used
Mar 04 22:10:48 <NCommander>    No, its still on the two Ubuntu boxes I setup
Mar 04 22:10:48 <LaminatorX>    Mediation is a good step, but we need to look at the structural voids that allawed there to be such a problem in the first place.
Mar 04 22:10:48 <mattie_p>    In my mind, the only reason why we would do so is if there is a compelling reason for us to use something else in a years time
Mar 04 22:10:51 <cosurgi>    well, I try to talk to everyone that I meet here. In fact I still don't remember who is in what group :)
Mar 04 22:11:04 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Dev is more than SlashCode. Please keep that in mind.
Mar 04 22:11:30 <mattie_p>    Barrabas: eventually yes, it is
Mar 04 22:11:40 <mattie_p>    but for right now, slashcode is what we have
Mar 04 22:11:43 <robinld>    Barrabas, so it sounds like we've got a couple of centos vms. I don't really care about that. I'm saying we're already up and running on ubuntu. Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
Mar 04 22:11:52 <mattie_p>    and is dev's 100% workload
Mar 04 22:11:58 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Ok, you didn't want this in PM so here's my position for everyone.
Mar 04 22:12:45 <LaminatorX>    I didn't bring this up to get into the nitty gritties of Cent vd Ubintu. Though if the parties are here to come to an agreement on it  _right_now_ then by all means do.
Mar 04 22:12:47 <Barrabas>    NCommander: If I let you bulldoze your decisions on people, then people will start leaving over it. That means no one will take over and help out, and we're left with you. I've told this to you in so many words.
Mar 04 22:12:55 <robinld>    like *why* are we migrating servers??
Mar 04 22:13:08 <robinld>    I don't know why other than "coz we're more familiar with centOS" which isn't a good enough reason IMO
Mar 04 22:13:23 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Secondly, if I let you bulldoze your opinions on me, every. other. overlord. will want to do the same. Nothing will get done, and we'll devolve into fighting.
Mar 04 22:13:36 <NCommander>    Barrabas, yes, and people are leaving because we can't make decisions. The only people I've seen disagree with what I've had to say with zford and mechanicjay. We are in deadlock, and that was the point I've been trying to make
Mar 04 22:13:44 <NCommander>    I am willing to have a discussion, I might even be able to be convinced to use CentOS. I said that in my email
Mar 04 22:13:44 <LaminatorX>    That seems to be the state we're in at the moment anyway.
Mar 04 22:13:56 <robinld>    anyone care to take a shot at answering my question?
Mar 04 22:13:59 <NCommander>    The problem I have at the moment is the fundamental communication issue which remains unaddressed
Mar 04 22:14:07 <LaminatorX>    ^^^
Mar 04 22:14:16 <NCommander>    robinld, because zford decided we were. I only found out about these boxes because linode automatic annoucements
Mar 04 22:14:27 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Thirdly, it is my opinion that you pissed off Zak during the initial rollout. His thing with the PDF was a mistake, but he's digging his heels precisely because he wants to destroy your reliability in the project. And it's working, people are largely on his side.
Mar 04 22:14:27 <cosurgi>    I wish to point out that NCommander prepared debian packages that should make installing slashcode pretty strainghforward for anyone interested (but I didn't try it out myself yet, so cannot confirm).
Mar 04 22:14:46 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: this means, that it should be easy for other people to get involved (if it works, that is).
Mar 04 22:14:50 <robinld>    Barrabas, it's beside the point
Mar 04 22:15:02 <robinld>    Barrabas, I haven't heard a single good reason why we should migrate servers
Mar 04 22:16:02 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I don't give a damn I pissed of Zak on the rollout, because someone had to make a decision and get slash working. The reason we functioned because that time was that I was a dicator on the decisions we were deadlocking on. I was communicating load on all these, and I never heard a peep about it from zford himself
Mar 04 22:16:07 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I've told you before, that the right way to appeal the decision is to get more people on your side. You *may* have that wirh robin, and if that's right we can revisit it. Forcing the issue in a heated manner, however, is not the professional way to do that.
Mar 04 22:16:10 <cosurgi>    so better we don't migrate :)
Mar 04 22:16:11 <mattie_p>    I'm just going to let this play out, because its still civil, by the way
Mar 04 22:16:45 <mattie_p>    Barrabas, I'm not convinced that either "side" is correct
Mar 04 22:16:46 <paulej72>    I am on NCommander's side as well
Mar 04 22:16:50 <NCommander>    Barrabas, and ignoring the point I keep trying to make here is good? Jon, you are missing the problem. As an organization, *WE* *ARE* *NOT* *FUNCTIONING*. Its not this issue. I could say I have no issue to CentOS right now, and that statement is still true
Mar 04 22:16:51 <robinld>    Barrabas, you're absolutely correct
Mar 04 22:17:02 <mattie_p>    I need the SMEs to determine what is the best OS for us a year from now
Mar 04 22:17:03 *    cosurgi sides with NCommander too.
Mar 04 22:17:04 <mattie_p>    and get us on it now
Mar 04 22:17:05 <LaminatorX>    I think it became a heated conflict because we're lacking healthy communications structures.
Mar 04 22:17:06 <robinld>    NCommander, so what's your proposal on that front?
Mar 04 22:17:08 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I don't know why you couldn't have just *politely* said that robin is on your side, and could we please revisit Zak's discussion? It was only something that I *explicitly* said was one of your options.
Mar 04 22:17:18 <mattie_p>    that way mechanicjay gets familiar with it NOW
Mar 04 22:17:28 <mattie_p>    rather than a year from now and stagnates the process then
Mar 04 22:17:39 <robinld>    it's not like ubuntu is hard to learn or anything
Mar 04 22:17:50 <robinld>    i mean when i was first getting slashcode running i used centos because it's what i know.
Mar 04 22:17:56 <NCommander>    Barrabas, because robinld was AFK due to sickness, I didn't get his opinion until the staff meeting. You intervened and sided with zford when I clearly told you it was undecided
Mar 04 22:18:07 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I don't care if you pissed him off either. I think you made all the right decisions at that time, but if you believe Machiavelli, then you have to watch out for certain situations.
Mar 04 22:18:21 <robinld>    yeah it doesn't matter if you're right if you piss off your team
Mar 04 22:18:37 <robinld>    even if they're wrong :)
Mar 04 22:18:51 <NCommander>    robinld, the only reason I know I pissed off Zak is because I heard it second hand. How the hell am I supposed to talk to someone like that, work with their issues, or concerns?
Mar 04 22:18:53 <cosurgi>    all what you need is being polite
Mar 04 22:19:07 <cosurgi>    (dang, that was supposed to be green)
Mar 04 22:19:14 <Barrabas>    mattie_p: Oddly, I am on NCommander's side as well. My best guess is that meeting him with the same force of emotion might get him to understand the bigger picture.
Mar 04 22:19:17 <NCommander>    robinld, its great for people to tell me their pissed off, I can talk to him, work with their issues. But going through proxies and other people doesn't solve the issue
Mar 04 22:19:24 <LaminatorX>    Even if we're all one big happy distro in common family after ten more minutes of chatting here, how do we keep this from happening again?
Mar 04 22:19:37 <robinld>    people need to be more civil
Mar 04 22:19:42 <NCommander>    LaminatorX, ^- THIS. This is what I've been trying to say
Mar 04 22:19:43 <robinld>    there's a cattiness going on that i don't like
Mar 04 22:19:48 <mattie_p>    Barrabas, I asked zford last week to reply to NCommander's concerns
Mar 04 22:19:55 <mattie_p>    I haven't seen anything on that front
Mar 04 22:20:02 <cosurgi>    proxies--
Mar 04 22:20:02 <Cubert>    karma - proxies: -1
Mar 04 22:20:02 <NCommander>    Barrabas, this all started with a single email asked why we were using CentOS
Mar 04 22:20:05 <cosurgi>    proxy--
Mar 04 22:20:05 <Cubert>    karma - proxy: -1
Mar 04 22:20:09 <NCommander>    Which was promptly ignored
Mar 04 22:20:17 <NCommander>    A second email got a one word response
Mar 04 22:20:22 <NCommander>    er, one sentence
Mar 04 22:20:29 <NCommander>    I hilighted the issue to mattie_p
Mar 04 22:20:32 <NCommander>    I hilighted it to you
Mar 04 22:21:06 <NCommander>    Instead of seeing any communication, I get a decree from you telling me zford is right, and I'm wrong because he has "consenious" even though as a member of sys, I was never asked, robinld wasn't asked (and couldn't have been), there was no email, and the PDF I signed off on didn't have it.
Mar 04 22:21:10 <mattie_p>    I really need to step out for a few moments
Mar 04 22:21:19 <mattie_p>    sorry I cannot stay right now
Mar 04 22:21:20 <cosurgi>    I'm worried that we spend so much time on OS selection, even after everyone agrees on the selected OS :(
Mar 04 22:21:22 <mattie_p>    timing is everything
Mar 04 22:21:24 <NCommander>    And then I got smited by you.
Mar 04 22:21:28 <Barrabas>    robinld: Are you confirming that Zak is pissed at NCommander?
Mar 04 22:21:51 <robinld>    Barrabas, I've had very limited comms with Zak so I only have hearsay
Mar 04 22:21:52 *    NCommander has pinged zford multiple times on IRC and by email to talk to him and has promptly been ignored
Mar 04 22:23:05 <paulej72>    from one brief interaction with zford, I would say he is pissed at NCommander
Mar 04 22:23:11 *    FunPika (~FunPika@Soylent/Staff/Wiki/FunPika) has joined #staff
Mar 04 22:23:11 *    buttercake gives channel operator status to FunPika
Mar 04 22:23:25 <cosurgi>    well, ok. There's not much we can do about Zak & zford. In fact I have never meet them here. We cannot do anything unless they decide for themselves to come back.
Mar 04 22:23:38 <Barrabas>    NCommander: You got smited not because you were wrong, but because you were being pissy. I'm not making this up, you are in a Machiavellian situation, you need to think beyond the "rightness" and "wrongness" of your situation.
Mar 04 22:23:44 <LaminatorX>    OS selection isn't the issue.  Effective coordination is. If we can't chaive it, the OS won't matter.
Mar 04 22:23:57 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Nerds need to figure this out. It's not enough to be "right", you also have to be "effective"!
Mar 04 22:24:11 <NCommander>    Barrabas, um ... calling you saying "we have a communication issue" is "being pissy?"
Mar 04 22:24:30 <Barrabas>    NCommander: That's an important lesson, and the first one for you as a trainee manager. Figure it out, or you'll never succeed.
Mar 04 22:24:31 <NCommander>    I was very reasonable working with mattie_p as well
Mar 04 22:25:05 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Let me put some numbers on that. An estimated 15% of your success in life is based on your true ability, and 85% is based on your ability to get along with others.
Mar 04 22:25:38 <Barrabas>    NCommander: This is important, and it's something you *have* to learn to do if you ever want to manage dev.
Mar 04 22:25:38 <NCommander>    Barrabas, and I was getting along fine until you smited me. Look in this room. you have people saying you have a problem with communication
Mar 04 22:25:40 <NCommander>    Its not just me.
Mar 04 22:26:04 <NCommander>    If it was just me being pissy, then people would not be saying that there are larger issues here
Mar 04 22:26:08 <LaminatorX>    OK, so we've identified a problem scenario. Say the same thing starts to happen tomorrow, how do we prevent a crisis?
Mar 04 22:26:14 <Barrabas>    Yeah? Well I recall you were a little loopy when you were burnt out so give me the same consideration.
Mar 04 22:27:20 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Your tone is puerile, confrontational and combative. It's no wonder that you piss people off. You pointed this out to me, indirectly, yourself. Consider this the first step.
Mar 04 22:27:22 <NCommander>    Barrabas, Agreed, but will you agree that this isn't me being pissy. I'm trying to hilight an actual problem here with how we are working as a fundamental group.
Mar 04 22:27:55 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Right now I *am* being pissy. It's a facade, it's trying to get you to wake up, to see what's going on, and consider larger issues.
Mar 04 22:28:03 <LaminatorX>    I suggested in the staff meetig that dev&sys should have a summit where they lay out the respective pros and cons, look at the impace of their choices, and work out an agreement.
Mar 04 22:28:21 <LaminatorX>    ...with mattie_p stepping in where needed.
Mar 04 22:28:42 <NCommander>    And you're treating me like someone who has nothing of importance  to say. And I'm saying there are larger issues and you are ignoring them. Right now, if I said "Lets use CentOS", it wouldn't change that at all.
Mar 04 22:29:07 <NCommander>    Barrabas, talk to the staff, ask them 1:1 if they see problems, and get some feedback, because I'm sure you'll have an eye opening experience
Mar 04 22:29:53 <NCommander>    And before you ask, I did exactly that. That's why I won't let this (the issues w/ communications and bubbles) drop
Mar 04 22:29:53 *    cosurgi confirms that NCommander talked 1:1, at least to cosurgi. But Barrabas did talk 1:1 also - a week ago :)
Mar 04 22:30:16 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Get it through your thick skull that I think you're *right*. The only issue here is how you go about it.
Mar 04 22:30:39 <LaminatorX>    It seems to me we need to take concrete steps, now, so that constructive communication becomes our default posture rather than a corrective measure.
Mar 04 22:30:55 <janrinok>    ^
Mar 04 22:30:59 *    cosurgi agrees wholeheartedly.
Mar 04 22:31:16 <Barrabas>    NCommander: So, what's your take-away from this conversation
Mar 04 22:31:19 <Barrabas>    ?
Mar 04 22:31:50 <Barrabas>    NCommander: So, what's your take-away from this conversation?
Mar 04 22:31:59 *    NCommander is debating his answer
Mar 04 22:32:22 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: your answer to the same question also would be interesting.
Mar 04 22:32:35 <paulej72>    exactly
Mar 04 22:32:38 <Barrabas>    cosurgi: OK, in a minute.
Mar 04 22:32:49 <LaminatorX>    Hopefully Constructive Proposal: Overlord meetings every other day to co-ordinate our efforts.
Mar 04 22:33:25 <NCommander>    Barrabas, my take away here is further issues dealing with communication. I know I'm somewhat quick to temper, but the fact that you're insistent on treating me like I'm 2 really makes it hard not to be an ass right now.  While I might be bad (and I admit it), you're doing no better than me in this regard
Mar 04 22:33:37 <LaminatorX>    Don't have to be long, but we need to nip stuff like this in the bud.
Mar 04 22:34:41 <Barrabas>    NCommander: So... what do you plan to do in the future?
Mar 04 22:34:43 <NCommander>    Had I been taken seriously on my concerns originally, which I told you flat out the issue wasn't due to choice of OS (on the Hangout when I was in Panama), this would have never been an issue
Mar 04 22:34:50 <Barrabas>    future => near future?
Mar 04 22:35:30 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I honestly don't know at this point
Mar 04 22:36:27 <Barrabas>    OK, let me say a few things. First of all, I'm not actually mad. In reality, I'm not even pissy - when I said it was a facade, it was just that. Something I tried to get an effect.
Mar 04 22:37:08 <Barrabas>    Since you keep coming back to the issue in bad ways, I decided to try being pissy to see if I could "wake you up", to get you to consider things in a "meta" sense.
Mar 04 22:37:29 <Barrabas>    It appears to have worked. In essence, I'm popping you out og heuristic mode and into systemic mode.
Mar 04 22:37:33 <NCommander>    Barrabas, there is absolutely no way to know that on IRC, and frankly, I expect people to be professional. Furthermore, I already acklodged the OS issue, and have relatively stated on voice, on email, and on IRC that it is part of a larger problem.
Mar 04 22:37:42 <NCommander>    I said that two weeks ago
Mar 04 22:37:47 <Barrabas>    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristic-systematic_model_of_information_processing
Mar 04 22:37:52 <zford>    NCommander, I've been out of town since Friday and just caught up with my emails last night.
Mar 04 22:37:52 <LaminatorX>    That is a critically inneffective management strategy, Barrabas.
Mar 04 22:38:00 <NCommander>    zford, !, you live
Mar 04 22:38:13 <kobach>    agreed w/ LaminatorX
Mar 04 22:38:24 <Barrabas>    LaminatorX: Perhaps. Let's see if it has any effect.
Mar 04 22:38:25 <LaminatorX>    Escalation is the exact opposite of helpful.
Mar 04 22:38:55 <janrinok>    That was not leadership
Mar 04 22:38:56 <Barrabas>    NCommander: So, thinking it through, what will you do, near term?
Mar 04 22:39:00 <NCommander>    It also doesn't address the fact that it wasn't until now that the problem brought up before the email, in the email, and after the email wasn't even acklodged now
Mar 04 22:39:25 <cosurgi>    zford: try: /last zford
Mar 04 22:39:34 <Barrabas>    NCommander: You have liegitiiiimate concerns, but what's your take-away?
Mar 04 22:39:41 <cosurgi>    zford: we were talking about you in past 30 minutes.
Mar 04 22:39:52 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I don't know. Right now, I'm trying to convince myself this project is worth it
Mar 04 22:39:55 <zford>    I'm reading my scrollback
Mar 04 22:40:42 <NCommander>    Barrabas, and given how things are going, I'm questioning if my time is better spent elsewhere. If you intended this as a learning exercise, it backfired horribly.
Mar 04 22:40:59 <Barrabas>    NCommander: You have the opportunity to be one of the top-10 well known people in the internet. You could be as well known as Woz, Bill Gates, or Mark Zukerberg.
Mar 04 22:41:08 <MrBluze|zzz>    i gtg to work, but without ncommander i believe this project has nowhere to go
Mar 04 22:41:13 <NCommander>    Barrabas, not if I have to spend multiple weeks to get a basic issue solved.
Mar 04 22:41:13 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: given what NCommander has done I suspect that without him we are dead in the water....
Mar 04 22:41:18 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I'm not up for playing games.
Mar 04 22:41:39 <LaminatorX>    Hopefully Corrective Proposal #2: Barrabas I'd like to humbly ask you to step back and focus on the business plan and the lawyers and such, and hand day to day administration completely to mattie_p
Mar 04 22:41:40 <MrBluze|zzz>    and all of our time is precious so..
Mar 04 22:41:43 <MrBluze|zzz>    ok back later
Mar 04 22:42:03 <NCommander>    I have to sit on techninical committess all day. The UEFI forum, Linaro Intercompany Meetings, Ubuntu Server Team. In all those, I've never once lost my temper
Mar 04 22:42:08 <NCommander>    You managed it. Congratulations
Mar 04 22:42:20 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: forget "Woz, Bill Gates, or Mark Zukerberg". It's not about that. You never achieve anything if you focus on some dreams instead of hard work.
Mar 04 22:42:22 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I'm not upplaying the importance of this. Dev is more than SlashCode, and you are the right person in the right place to make an enormous difference in the internet.
Mar 04 22:43:10 <NCommander>    Barrabas, not if I have to constantly fight with you to even acklodge there's an issue. Right now, we're running like DICE 2.0.
Mar 04 22:43:45 <NCommander>    Barrabas, you've yet to even admit fault in this. Instead, I'm sitting her ewondering what the hell I did wrong, where the only thing I can say is I lost my temper in an email
Mar 04 22:43:55 <NCommander>    A private email that I sent to you, zford, and mattie_p
Mar 04 22:44:07 <Barrabas>    NCommander: It won't be constant. This will be like the first days of getting off addiciton. It'll be much easier and much better as time goes on.
Mar 04 22:44:12 <NCommander>    Until tonight, I have been nothing but curatious and respective of you in public
Mar 04 22:44:21 <NCommander>    and well as the rest of the staff
Mar 04 22:44:49 <NCommander>    Barrabas, then why does it look like we're getting worse. We've got members of the staff threating to quit that I had to talk to at length about
Mar 04 22:45:25 <NCommander>    Why don't I see a light at the end of this tunnel
Mar 04 22:45:37 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I wasn't aware of that. Firsly, do you have specifics, and secondly, that's yet another thing that a manager has to learn to do.
Mar 04 22:46:14 <cosurgi>    (nobody is better)
Mar 04 22:46:17 <NCommander>    Barrabas, then get off the ivory pillar and come down and join us. I won't out the individual w/o their permission. mattie_p can likely confirm that this is true.
Mar 04 22:46:36 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I can give you other similes and metaphores, but it''s all the same. The first step in change is really hard, but eventually it gets better.
Mar 04 22:46:43 <NCommander>    Because right now, that's exactly what I see. Someone who is complete detached from the actual operations and not aware of the life blood of the company
Mar 04 22:46:49 <NCommander>    s/company/staff/g
Mar 04 22:46:57 <kobach>    tbqh thats what i also see
Mar 04 22:47:23 *    MrBluze|zzz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
Mar 04 22:47:28 <cosurgi>    Barrabas: don't use metaphores. I simply got lost. Speak straight to the core.
Mar 04 22:47:32 <LaminatorX>    Seriously, this disturbs me deeply: "I decided to try being pissy to see if I could "wake you up", to get you to consider things in a "meta" sense." That sort of behavior can work in thing like therapy sessions, but will destroy an organization like this, right quick.
Mar 04 22:47:40 <NCommander>    I'm defacto running the show at the moment, and trying to deal with a redicious org chart, no effective communications, and a ton of other shit. I've been our bridge to the community w/ seeing how things are going on. Why?
Mar 04 22:48:02 <NCommander>    If I walk, I'm dead certain SoylentNews is dead.
Mar 04 22:48:04 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Are you running style? Or content?
Mar 04 22:48:29 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I've communicated with them at length to get their needs, and to see how to make stuff work better for them, but we can't even get a consistent style organized
Mar 04 22:48:45 <NCommander>    Barrabas, and a person who runs operations delagates jobs
Mar 04 22:49:32 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I'm sitting down and talking to people to try keep morale up, to see where our problems are, to understand what the hell is going on
Mar 04 22:49:34 <Barrabas>    Recognize that there has been a mountain of work, and I've been communicating and coordinating for 12-16 hours since the begininng. Through the sys hiatus and the week after.
Mar 04 22:49:48 <NCommander>    Barrabas, then delgate it
Mar 04 22:50:01 <Barrabas>    So, when I said I was fried I wasn't making that up. I have to step away for at least a day or two to refuel.
Mar 04 22:50:29 <NCommander>    So you expect those days to change then?
Mar 04 22:50:29 <Barrabas>    12-16 hours/day. All days, including weekends.
Mar 04 22:50:37 <NCommander>    Soylent, or real life?
Mar 04 22:50:51 <NCommander>    (real life wor)
Mar 04 22:51:20 <Barrabas>    NCommander: What real life? Everything's been SoylentNews for me since the beginning.
Mar 04 22:52:02 <Barrabas>    I can't get a spare hour to watch a movie, and I take my notebook with me to the gym to write documents between exercises.
Mar 04 22:52:07 <cosurgi>    but you need to do something for the living. There's no money out of this (yet..)
Mar 04 22:53:26 <LaminatorX>    Take my suggestion then. Back off. Focus on the org level.
Mar 04 22:53:29 <NCommander>    Barrabas, yes, and no one can see that. Furthermore, a lot of things were decided by you with no community discussion what so ever, or in some cases, made life extremely difficult.
Mar 04 22:53:35 <Barrabas>    NCommander: And to top it off, I'm not a manager, never have been, and don't understand humans at all. I've got no sense of what others are thinking, and I mean that in a literal sense. I don't know if someone's angry until they take a swing at me.
Mar 04 22:53:47 <NCommander>    Barrabas, then why are you on the top of the org chart.
Mar 04 22:53:54 <Barrabas>    So the best I can do is rely on any psychology information I've managed to pick up and try things.
Mar 04 22:54:06 <NCommander>    Step aside and handle the bussiness side, and allow someone else to run the show.
Mar 04 22:54:06 <janrinok>    That was a crap attempt!
Mar 04 22:54:09 <kobach>    if you're not a manager why not let someone who has experience managing manage
Mar 04 22:54:20 <kobach>    such as NCommander or mattie_p
Mar 04 22:55:00 *    cosurgi could live with NCommander or mattie_p as managers. They both have shown they can act professionally.
Mar 04 22:55:08 *    kobach same
Mar 04 22:55:14 <paulej72>    same
Mar 04 22:55:18 <Barrabas>    NCommander, and everyone else: That's mattie's job exactly.
Mar 04 22:55:45 <paulej72>    Then give him command ability
Mar 04 22:55:47 <NCommander>    Barrabas, but mattie_p defers to you on a lot of things, and TBH, doesn't have the necessary leadership to drive the project
Mar 04 22:56:06 <NCommander>    mattie_p was in the military and he's an awesome manager
Mar 04 22:56:11 <paulej72>    Let him make some decisions on his own
Mar 04 22:56:20 *    cosurgi agrees.
Mar 04 22:56:22 <Barrabas>    kobach: Cluebat: Mike is the right person at the right time. He doesn't have management experience, so I got Mattie to agree to mentor him in management skills.
Mar 04 22:56:24 *    NCommander was a line firefighter, I understand it
Mar 04 22:56:33 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I'm disagreeing with my management experience
Mar 04 22:56:37 <NCommander>    I'm not a formal line manager
Mar 04 22:56:44 <LaminatorX>    Yes, hand mattie the keys then. he can handle it, but he's deferring to you right now more than you seem to be able to handle effectively.
Mar 04 22:56:50 <NCommander>    But I have run multiple open source projects, and been the tech lead for the Canonical ARM team for three years
Mar 04 22:57:20 <NCommander>    This is essentialyl an open source project both in structure and in management, requiring excellent communication, vision, and leadership.
Mar 04 22:58:12 <NCommander>    I used to write blueprints for other people to work through an implement, I understand CrM. Have I ever been a formal manager on an org chart? No.
Mar 04 22:59:04 <janrinok>    I was also in the mil for 37 years. NCommander don't worry, you can lead...
Mar 04 22:59:31 <NCommander>    Barrabas, furthermore, your notebook isn't transparent. I want to know what our project is going to look like, to get the bylaws drafted for a not for project so we can get tax-exempt status from the IRS
Mar 04 22:59:32 <Barrabas>    NCommander: We had a conversation, and you said you'd like the position, but thought that being a manager wouldn't work well. That's why I got mattie - because you wanted it, it's the best seat in the house, and I made special arrangements to giv it to you.
Mar 04 23:00:19 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I'm revising my opionion of myself given recent events and after talking with the rest of the community. At that point, you had recently chewed me for pissing off people which is why I agree to that.
Mar 04 23:00:33 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Had I gone by just what you said, you wouldn't be the head of dev. But I wanted to make it happen, so figured out a way.
Mar 04 23:00:51 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I'm defacto head of dev, mattie_p already agreed that it wasn't going to work.
Mar 04 23:01:24 <NCommander>    I'm getting merge requests and time permitting, making sure people are working on what they want to work on. I can't fork anyone to do anything because its not a paid position and thats how we loose people
Mar 04 23:01:25 <Barrabas>    What did he say that wasn't going to work?
Mar 04 23:02:17 <NCommander>    Barrabas, Mattie lacks any knowledge required to make 99 percent of decisions in the job. Furthermore, due to him "ascending" to management of everything, his time is virtually nil
Mar 04 23:02:52 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I'd like to have the vision statement don, I really would. But ya see, when you spend all your time coordinating things, it's hard enough to find time to sleep.
Mar 04 23:03:27 *    audioguy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
Mar 04 23:03:36 <LaminatorX>    That is a testament to our structure not working at the moment.
Mar 04 23:03:37 <paulej72>    Barrabas: to most of us it seems you are not coordinating anything
Mar 04 23:03:39 <cosurgi>    if there was some kind of voting going on, I would vote on NCommander to take the lead.
Mar 04 23:03:41 <NCommander>    Barrabas, I'm going to be blunt. I'm not sure how you've managed to go that long without writing it, because I could have written a manifesto on what I want this site to be in a day. I wrote a partial one when we went up.
Mar 04 23:03:45 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Is it so critical that all these things that "must happen now" really happen now? I mean, can't we take a break and catch our breath?
Mar 04 23:03:57 <NCommander>    Barrabas, yes, it is. We already did that.
Mar 04 23:04:35 <janrinok>    Lets learn to walk before we run....
Mar 04 23:04:42 <NCommander>    And its not just me. We need active cooridination now when we're still in early launch
Mar 04 23:04:45 <cosurgi>    (crawling is fine ;)
Mar 04 23:04:53 <NCommander>    we *have* none
Mar 04 23:05:00 <paulej72>    agreed
Mar 04 23:05:04 <janrinok>    agreed
Mar 04 23:05:11 <kobach>    agreed
Mar 04 23:05:19 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I don't write with the same ease as you. It took me a whole day to write the answers to the "Ask Soylent" question posted, and two hours to write theIRC verision of the vision statement.
Mar 04 23:05:33 <LaminatorX>    An ouce of prevention now can stave off ruin later.
Mar 04 23:05:40 <NCommander>    Barrabas, that's fine. Its been almost a month.
Mar 04 23:05:58 <NCommander>    This isn't filing taxes, its a vision plan to outline our future, and can be somewhat vague where it can be
Mar 04 23:06:09 <NCommander>    Barrabas, and writing isn't easy for me, I just happen to be damn verbose
Mar 04 23:06:11 <Barrabas>    NCommander: You did that. I'm still where you were at first release.
Mar 04 23:06:53 <NCommander>    How can we pretend to run an organization if we don't have defined princaples to run it
Mar 04 23:07:11 <NCommander>    To register a NFP, we need defined bylaws, a full business plan, explination of reveune sources
Mar 04 23:07:14 <NCommander>    (at least in NYS)
Mar 04 23:07:24 <NCommander>    that's a shitton of writing requiring us having stuff on paper
Mar 04 23:07:37 <NCommander>    I was expecting at this point we'd have a state level NFP, and starting the federal IRS approval
Mar 04 23:07:51 <LaminatorX>    (See Appalberry's post in the Business forum)
Mar 04 23:08:04 <NCommander>    LaminatorX, I recommend he be contacted ASAP
Mar 04 23:08:23 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I agree. If you had been tasked with doing that, with your current situation and given that you did the initial rollout, where would you be on that task right now?
Mar 04 23:08:45 <NCommander>    Barrabas, right now? I'd have draft copies of the bylaws going to a lawyer, probably filling out the state paperwork
Mar 04 23:09:04 <NCommander>    Due to my location issues, I couldn't formally file for the NFP until I got stateside again, but I'd have the forms vetted and ready to go
Mar 04 23:09:07 <Barrabas>    NCommander: With all the other work you've been doing? And your China trip... you'd have all that?
Mar 04 23:09:14 *    audioguy (~freenode@Soylent/Staff/Frontend/audioguy) has joined #staff
Mar 04 23:09:14 *    buttercake gives channel operator status to audioguy
Mar 04 23:09:54 <NCommander>    Barrabas, honestly? I've been pretty inactive after the last round of emails. I nearly fucking walked right then and there. I had 36 hours of flying to write out mission statements, and I used to be a riminal justice manager
Mar 04 23:10:10 <NCommander>    Today is the first time I fired up the dev VM to land branches at all
Mar 04 23:10:33 <Barrabas>    It must be nice to have spare time like that.
Mar 04 23:10:44 <NCommander>    What I might have written might not be a manifesto to inspire the world, but it would be a guiding ship
Mar 04 23:11:22 <Barrabas>    Also, during the last week I caught a cold and was running a fever most of the time. I also accidentally sliced the end off of my thumb on Thursday - I was too tired and not paying attention.
Mar 04 23:11:25 <NCommander>    Barrabas, coming from the person who has been spending 12-16 h a day, you should have been DEPWAIT the government at this point. After bridge up, at most I've been doing a few hours a day on the weekend.
Mar 04 23:11:47 <NCommander>    I'm not saying its easy
Mar 04 23:12:00 <NCommander>    But asking for help or saying you're backed up has no shame attached to it
Mar 04 23:12:23 <LaminatorX>    Barrabas, if you're so wiped that you're accidentally slicing off parts of your anatomy, you need to stop doing this. It isn't going to work, at least not this way.
Mar 04 23:12:52 <Barrabas>    NCommander: In this conversation, the one started a hour ago, did I or did I not ask if we could put this off?
Mar 04 23:13:14 <NCommander>    Barrabas, and I said no, because thats been the running theme on these talks
Mar 04 23:13:19 <paulej72>    Barrabas: we can't put this off anymore
Mar 04 23:13:22 <NCommander>    This is the first time I know where we stand
Mar 04 23:13:26 <NCommander>    And its worse than I thought
Mar 04 23:13:42 *    mrcoolbp (~mrcoolbp@Soylent/Staff/mrcoolbp) has joined #staff
Mar 04 23:13:42 *    buttercake gives channel operator status to mrcoolbp
Mar 04 23:13:53 <NCommander>    If I've been stubborn and difficult, its because the only thing that seems to work at all is when I draw a line in the sand
Mar 04 23:14:14 <mrcoolbp>    I'm back for a few
Mar 04 23:14:22 <LaminatorX>    Nobody's looking to kick you out of your own band, man. It's just not working. You need to share the load.
Mar 04 23:14:23 <NCommander>    I've made EXACTLY one thing that pissed off people, and that was deciding to use Ubuntu
Mar 04 23:14:36 <Barrabas>    So which is is? LaminatorX agrees that I should stop, NCommander tells me that things are going to hell and I can't stop now.
Mar 04 23:14:47 <NCommander>    Barrabas, no, we're telling you to hand it off.
Mar 04 23:14:52 <kobach>    ^
Mar 04 23:14:56 <NCommander>    So you can stop, and the project can keep going
Mar 04 23:14:56 <janrinok>    ^
Mar 04 23:15:31 <audioguy>    ^
Mar 04 23:15:38 <LaminatorX>    Focus on what you can do, not wearing yourself out on what you can't.
Mar 04 23:15:38 <mrcoolbp>    hand what off?
Mar 04 23:15:39 <NCommander>    I'm willing to take full lead on getting us organized, getting the necessary talks with the community (on the site) to hash this out. I'm off all next week, and I can get the paperwork started, locate a lawyer
Mar 04 23:15:51 <Barrabas>    Mattie's supposed to be doing the day-to-day operations. He's the one I haded things off to, and it's been a week or more. You're saying that it's not working out?
Mar 04 23:16:12 <audioguy>    It's not working out.
Mar 04 23:16:17 <janrinok>    Matties good if you'll let him be.
Mar 04 23:16:17 <paulej72>    no it is not
Mar 04 23:16:21 <NCommander>    Barrabas, we're saying things have gotten worse. The staff meeting just proved that it was worse than anyone of realized due to the silos
Mar 04 23:17:06 <Barrabas>    So far as I can tell, there's one major issue. Mattie was handling it... are there more problems?
Mar 04 23:17:18 <NCommander>    ... no
Mar 04 23:17:45 <janrinok>    Yes, we shouldn't be having this conversation!
Mar 04 23:17:46 <mrcoolbp>    Barrabas: a few feel like their voice isn'tbeing heard or nothing is changind
Mar 04 23:17:47 <paulej72>    No decisions are being made and few that are, are not being discussed
Mar 04 23:17:51 <Barrabas>    So if this one issue is resolved, then everything else can coast for, let's say, two weeks while we get better communicatio nin place?
Mar 04 23:17:53 <audioguy>    The problem is that we have no clear plan, nor do I see any way we are going to get one with the current modes of communication.
Mar 04 23:17:54 <LaminatorX>    Not yet, but if we go on as we have been, there will be more, and worse.
Mar 04 23:18:25 <paulej72>    we can not coast if we do we die
Mar 04 23:18:42 <mechanicjay>    I agree, we cannot coast for two weeks.
Mar 04 23:18:55 <audioguy>    I would like to see one or more plans, vote on it, then let person who wrote runs things for a while.
Mar 04 23:19:22 <cosurgi>    mattie_p: are you there?
Mar 04 23:19:31 <LaminatorX>    Rotating consulships worked for Rome for a couple centuries, we could do worse.
Mar 04 23:19:31 <kobach>    probably still afk
Mar 04 23:19:46 <audioguy>    We are supposed to be operating on concensus, but we can't even seem to agree on a mechanism to allow that kind of process to work.
Mar 04 23:20:11 <paulej72>    We need a leader who leads
Mar 04 23:20:16 <NCommander>    ^
Mar 04 23:20:19 <kobach>    ^
Mar 04 23:20:22 <janrinok>    *
Mar 04 23:20:24 <Barrabas>    *Sigh*. OK, let's do this. I've spent some time looking for lawyers who can help set up the business. I've E-mailed the EFF, and only now found out about SPI. I'll look into that and conact them to see fi they can help.
Mar 04 23:20:43 <NCommander>    Barrabas, why are we emailing the EFF? What we need is a business lawyer. SPI is for open source projects
Mar 04 23:20:49 *    NCommander is connected to the SPI through Debian
Mar 04 23:21:14 <Barrabas>    As far as consensus, there's two general categories. All the "low level" decisions are supposed to be made at the overlord level, by taking consensus of their groups.
Mar 04 23:21:22 <Barrabas>    Other than our one bug issue, is that not happening?
Mar 04 23:21:36 <mrcoolbp>    guys can comeone clue me in on what's happeneing?
Mar 04 23:21:38 <NCommander>    Barrabas, which disagrees w/ the wiki. That MIGHT work if the teams were organized in a way we can get things done.
Mar 04 23:21:42 <Barrabas>    Does anyonenot feel that their overlord isn't taking consensus within their group?
Mar 04 23:21:43 <NCommander>    mrcoolbp, very long story
Mar 04 23:21:50 <mrcoolbp>    well I know some of it
Mar 04 23:21:57 <audioguy>    Thee is no cosistent mechanism for that to happen with a bunch of people in different times zoners, etc.
Mar 04 23:22:01 <mrcoolbp>    I'm just wondering what is being proposed right now???
Mar 04 23:22:01 <FunPika>    We also need to figure out what a good means of staff communication is ASAP. Clearly whatever we are doing now (Emails and this channel I think...?) isn't working if we got to this point.
Mar 04 23:22:07 <NCommander>    Barrabas, beside myself, can anyone say that their overlord has the leadership experience?
Mar 04 23:22:19 <NCommander>    We've got a stupidly complicated org chart for 16 people
Mar 04 23:22:19 <janrinok>    mrcoolbp: what we do to fix the mess
Mar 04 23:22:21 <FunPika>    urgh...misworded the end of that wait a moment
Mar 04 23:22:21 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I on'y found out about SPI this afternoon. Let me do some research after this conversation and we'll talk.
Mar 04 23:22:34 <NCommander>    ...
Mar 04 23:22:40 <cosurgi>    mrcoolbp: long story short - NCommander suggests that he cen be a better manager than Barrabas. And some people here agree with that.
Mar 04 23:22:47 <mrcoolbp>    thanks
Mar 04 23:23:30 <FunPika>    *if we got to the point where we are getting into a huge argument like this and seemingly being disorganized from what I'm getting out of it
Mar 04 23:23:31 *    NCommander feels li ke everything being said is going in one ear, and out another ...
Mar 04 23:23:34 <Barrabas>    NCommander: Mattie has, and so does DopeFish. Applesmasher has been missing, but he as some as well.
Mar 04 23:24:16 <mrcoolbp>    I'm still proposing the staff slash as a means of staff communication
Mar 04 23:24:25 <mrcoolbp>    for what it's worth.....
Mar 04 23:24:25 <LaminatorX>    I've have no complaints WRT Dopefish, but he doesn't have the time for top kick.
Mar 04 23:24:29 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I'm sorry, but I didn't follow that. Can you be more specific?
Mar 04 23:24:55 <audioguy>    Whatever is happenng right now isnot  working. If NCommander thinks he can do better, I 'd say, maybe its worth a try.
Mar 04 23:25:15 <audioguy>    But I would want to see an actual plan. ;-)
Mar 04 23:25:17 <NCommander>    WOW
Mar 04 23:25:22 <cosurgi>    NCommander: who is not listening? (... one ear, and out another ...)
Mar 04 23:25:25 <NCommander>    That was an incredibly horrid time for my laptop battery to die
Mar 04 23:25:27 <NCommander>    Give me a sec
Mar 04 23:25:27 <Barrabas>    So we've been putting together mailing lists for various topics. Staff, all the departments, and such. When those are in place, would that help?
Mar 04 23:25:37 <NCommander>    Barrabas, but thats the problem. We need one SINGLE mailing list
Mar 04 23:25:37 <LaminatorX>    I think that idea could work a year from now mrcoolbp with lots of design work along the way, but I think we need a mature project management solution ASAP.
Mar 04 23:25:43 <NCommander>    We're 16 people
Mar 04 23:25:49 <NCommander>    Why does the damn org chart look like it came from Intel
Mar 04 23:26:06 <mrcoolbp>    because it came together slowly from multiple sources
Mar 04 23:26:12 <paulej72>    How long does it take to setup a mailing list?
Mar 04 23:26:18 <mrcoolbp>    ^^^^
Mar 04 23:26:27 <mrcoolbp>    seems like a good temporary solution
Mar 04 23:26:34 <Barrabas>    NCommander: I didn't do the org chart. Can you give me a moment to take a look?
Mar 04 23:26:36 <paulej72>    Even if we had to use a third party for now.
Mar 04 23:26:44 <audioguy>    Answer 5 minutes .
Mar 04 23:26:49 <LaminatorX>    You havent seen the org chart?
Mar 04 23:26:51 <cosurgi>    where is the org chart? I would like to see it too :)
Mar 04 23:26:58 <mrcoolbp>    I will link hold on guys
Mar 04 23:27:03 <audioguy>    We have an org chart?
Mar 04 23:27:06 <kobach>    ^
Mar 04 23:27:11 <janrinok>    news to me
Mar 04 23:27:12 <cosurgi>    :-DD
Mar 04 23:27:21 <NCommander>    Its the Who's Who on the wiki
Mar 04 23:27:26 <cosurgi>    ah!
Mar 04 23:27:27 <paulej72>    the org chart has nothing to do with reality at his point
Mar 04 23:27:28 <NCommander>    I ask the question again
Mar 04 23:27:29 <mrcoolbp>    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1doOI5O_VHEUjUdmqmSzwbf6UZwARjbLNqBM9PnkYiLQ/edit