from the prevention-goes-a-long-way dept.
So, every once in awhile, if things have been quiet, I like to pop a post seeing what the general feelings of the community are towards the site, seeing what we could do better, etc. I think its been a few months since the last time I posted in Meta, so I think this is a good time to get a pulse on the community, and provide a venue to get any feedback (good or bad).
On the staff side, I know things have been relatively quiet over the summer due to most of us being busy with life and such, which is why we haven't made a major site upgrade since the original rehash upgrade at the end of May. For myself, I've been working at a new job, and dealing with a fair bit of non-Soylent related things to the point that I really only have the time or energy to post, and occasional check in, and I'd like to thank the rest of the staff, and mrcoolbp in particular for holding down the fort for me.
Anyway, in contrast to my usual posts, I'm going to cut this off here, and will be looking forward to your comments below.
73 from NCommander
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday November 17 2015, @10:48AM
I'm antipodean, summer just starts here, you insensitive...
Maybe this is why I find myself SN-ing less frequently than, say, 2-3 months ago.
But, personally, I reckon it's good to see stories with 250+ comments now and again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 17 2015, @12:27PM
I'd say the quality of the discussion is good, too, for the most part. I do notice that there is a lot more discussion about specific computer hardware & code, which there are relatively few articles for, and also general working & lifestyle topics, which everyone can relate to, than there are about science or general technical issues per se. Do people care about the science articles? Does anyone have a good, regular source for code issues?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by rondon on Tuesday November 17 2015, @01:08PM
I greatly enjoy the science articles, but I'm not generally informed enough to feel that I should (or want to) comment on them.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @06:48PM
Ask questions even if you think they are too basic.
I'm very knowledgeable about certain science topics and answering questions/explaining concepts leads to better commentary and usually a broader discussion.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2015, @01:57AM
Mod parent up. If the summary is decent, it would be enough for those of us without the specific expertise to ask questions, and perhaps even read the linked piece. If I know people here, those with some expertise would be glad share some of it with the rest of us plebs.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JeanCroix on Tuesday November 17 2015, @03:22PM
(Score: 5, Interesting) by richtopia on Tuesday November 17 2015, @05:08PM
I don't want to divulge into Reddit, but I would like to see a moderation system for articles. I would allow users to +1/-1 on articles, but not show the article score or use it for ranking. Meerly it would provide a feedback to the administrators that some of the topics are appreciated even though there is little discussion.
Particularly some of the astronomy announcement articles I feel this way. I like to be informed, but there is little to say on some of the announcements.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by FatPhil on Tuesday November 17 2015, @05:54PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @07:00PM
It's fine to say "that's cool". Try to throw in a question, especially a "Why" question.
Example: That's really cool that scientists can manipulate immune cells to kill cancer. Why don't the immune cells already kill cancer? What is keeping this from becoming a standard therapy? What are the potential downsides of the therapy?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 19 2015, @02:00AM
I'd like to see that myself. Give us an idea of what to hunt for when we've been light on it for a day or three.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @06:46PM
I find a lot "code issues" in the project I am working on. Maybe folks can post their bug database dumps.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday November 17 2015, @10:51AM
... and more on the website.
IRC doesn't show up in web search. If we want our site to grow we need to take the discussion to the World Wide Web.
At least, for once, I didn't get First Post.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday November 17 2015, @02:33PM
Which one of you sorry lot is this? [google.com]
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by mtrycz on Tuesday November 17 2015, @11:08AM
We need more submitters at times, otherwise all's good.
In capitalist America, ads view YOU!
(Score: 4, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 17 2015, @12:11PM
I second this. I try to keep the pipeline full when it flags, but I would like to spend time on the back end. Plus I'm sure people would like to see my username less.
Some people might think it takes a long time to prepare a submission, but it doesn't have to. Check the headlines, see one you think the community might find interesting. Copy & paste 3-4 paragraphs that give people the gist (summon your inner grad student with a massive syllabus to get through), throw a link in there somewhere, and you're set. When you get into the rhythm of it it doesn't take more than 5 minutes.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by quadrox on Tuesday November 17 2015, @01:40PM
I know that somewhere there is supposed to be the output of an IRC bot that lists potential new articles - only I cannot find it anywhere on the website anymore. I have tried twice without success, it is too well hidden.
To increase submissions (at least from me), please make this useful tool widely visible so as to encourage readers to submit articles.
Thank you!
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 17 2015, @01:54PM
Here it is [sylnt.us]. I use it every day and usually it's enough to keep the queue full. About once per week, usually on Mondays or Fridays, I have to ping other sources.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by quadrox on Tuesday November 17 2015, @02:04PM
Thanks a lot - in the short term this will be sufficient for me.
In the long term however I am hoping that this link will be put into the menu or at least the submission page, so that other users can find it also.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @02:55PM
How about making a story that shows what to do?
(Score: 3, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 17 2015, @05:33PM
I submitted a piece to the editors as an addendum to the wiki on "how to submit a story." I haven't actually checked to see if it went through or if it was included, but here's what I do. For me the cost-benefit ratio is fine, but YMMV:
1. Check the story feed on http://logs.sylnt.us/%23rss-bot [sylnt.us]
2. Click the headlines you think would be interesting to the community to open multiple tabs in your browser.
3. Quickly skim the article to make sure it passes the sniff test, if so, copy & paste the headline into Soylent's "Submit your scoop" form.
4. Copy & paste 3-4 paragraphs from the article that convey the gist of the story (tip: articles from dailies make this easier, monthlies make it harder) into Soylent's form, enclose them in blockquote tags.
5. Copy & paste the link to the full article somewhere in the blockquote clause on Soylent's form.
6. Include your own conversation starter or quip, or don't. Submit. Done.
I find I can often submit a story in about 2-3 minutes. Not too much time. Easily done while having your morning coffee or evening apperitif.
It's not like doing a book report, which I think most Soylentils think it would be. But even if one were so inclined initially, I would recommend not approaching it that way because you'd wind up spending a lot of time on the submission, only to very likely be let down and/or insulted when nobody comments on the submission (should it be even accepted). So my advice is, don't spend too much time on it, don't invest too much of yourself in it, don't care too much when it's rejected.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Informative) by martyb on Wednesday November 18 2015, @02:53AM
All your steps / suggestions are much appreciated! Quite simply, how much does your submission resemble other stories that you see posted to the site? The more it looks like something that appears on the main page, the less we have to do to the submission so that is looks like it should appear on the main page!
One suggestion, if I may, on the copy-pasting of paragraphs from the original story: PLEASE include relevant imbedded links!
One can note where the links are in the copied text and update the submission accordingly. Alternatively, after selecting the text, do a right-click and then "View selection source". Barring that, just a note to the editors in the submission stating, say, "3 links were not brought over from the source" would be a big help.
Is that necessary? No, not really. Does it give a boost to the likelihood your story will be selected for the site? I certainly look favorably on the links being included.
NOTE: I am speaking only for myself as an editor on the site, but from what I have seen, I'm not the only one who holds those views.
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday November 18 2015, @11:41AM
OK, duly noted.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Tuesday November 17 2015, @01:17PM
Maybe it's time for each of us to do a little advertising again as well. Every once in a while it's good to post a description of the site to social media groups that might be interested. I would think the site's growth is very much word of mouth driven.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday November 17 2015, @03:30PM
We need more submitters at times, otherwise all's good.
Agreed. I really think having a story rejected without knowing why turns infrequent submitters away.
Anecdotally, after the last Meta thread several people said they want more polls. (Still a popular position)
So I decided to try to come up with a poll idea every 10 days or so.
They don't all need to be posted, of course, but recently they seem to all get rejected. With no feedback as to why I've basically just stopped submitting them.
I think it should be a high priority to get some sort of submission feedback mechanism working.
(Score: 2) by cmn32480 on Wednesday November 18 2015, @12:35AM
It is my understanding that this has been coded and is to be included in the next code update around the first of the year-ish.
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear" - Norm Peterson
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 19 2015, @02:13AM
Yep, the pull request has already been merged. It'll be up on dev shortly and go live sometime around year's end.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by NickFortune on Tuesday November 17 2015, @12:23PM
... is that when you do it right, hardly hear a whisper, but when you get it wrong, your inbox explodes.
I think you're doing a pretty good job.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by NCommander on Thursday November 19 2015, @12:47AM
The problem is that mild irritations can build up over time, and when something goes wrong, everything gets vented at once. An occasional meta article to clear the air goes a long way. Let's be blunt, Beta was the final straw for most of us; Slashdot had been doing downhill and not listening for eons before that.
Still always moving
(Score: 2) by NickFortune on Friday November 20 2015, @08:35AM
Sure. By all means keep giving us the occasional meta thread.
I just thought a little positive feedback might be welcome :)
(Score: 3, Touché) by wonkey_monkey on Tuesday November 17 2015, @12:24PM
Community Health Check - Seeing What People Are Thinking
I thought this was about a new thought-scanning device they're rolling out on Obamacare.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 3, Funny) by takyon on Tuesday November 17 2015, @12:27PM
DarpaCare
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by rob_on_earth on Tuesday November 17 2015, @12:27PM
is there a submission queue for polls?
other than the lack of polls this site is fore filling all my needs.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday November 17 2015, @12:49PM
I also would like to see more polls. Some can be deep, some can be nerdy, some can be techy, some can be just for laughs, I don't care. If they change quickly, it doesn't matter if a duff one comes along, as it will be gone soon.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday November 17 2015, @12:50PM
I think you just submit the poll as plain text and we make it for you.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by WizardFusion on Tuesday November 17 2015, @12:51PM
Agreed, the polls are very lacking. Although I realise coming up with new poll ideas can be hard.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @01:04PM
Are the polls currently lacking?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday November 17 2015, @03:21PM
I've submitted quite a few over the last few months and they have all been rejected.
Sure, they were stupid as hell but that's what polls are for!
Maybe we could get that much-discussed feedback mechanism for submissions working? For all I know I've just been putting them in the wrong place.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday November 17 2015, @12:53PM
At first glance had me hoping someone had figured out how to read minds with technology, and we could get rid of the keyboard and mouse. Wear skull caps with lots of sensors, and just think what key or button to press or where to move the mouse or cursor.
Oh well, maybe next time.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @01:03PM
I'd like to see an option to highlight new comments since I last viewed a discussion. Something like store a last-read timestamp for each discussion in the user's database record - or maybe even just stored in cookies that get set/reset each time a discussion is loaded. Then when displaying the discussion, change the background color of the posts and their subject-lines (so it is visible in the collapsed views). Right now you have to set it to view comments newest first and ignore threads which means you lose the context. That's not terrible when the number of comments is small, but get up past 30 or so and it is a PITA.
(Score: 2) by AndyTheAbsurd on Tuesday November 17 2015, @02:28PM
Modded up because this is a great idea.
If the SN devs won't do it, I bet somebody could bang together a GreaseMonkey script for it.
Please note my username before responding. You may have been trolled.
(Score: 2) by AndyTheAbsurd on Tuesday November 17 2015, @02:31PM
Also, a "load new replies" button per thread would be neat! Possibly one of these ideas is a lot harder to implement than the other, though.
Please note my username before responding. You may have been trolled.
(Score: 2) by termigator on Tuesday November 17 2015, @07:06PM
Not knowing the specifics of the SN codebase, so take this with a grain of salt: one potential method is to store last time the main post was loaded for the user. If a timestamp is associated with each comment (can be stored in a custom data attribute in the DOM) a little javascript can be used to highlight those comments that are dated later than last load time (highlighting done by adding a CSS class to newer comment nodes, where the class used has whatever styling is used to highlight).
After highlighting, set the last load time stored with the user record to current time. You keep the previous last-load time on the current page so you can properly highlight replies that have yet-to-be loaded because they are under a collapsed node. When the node is expanded, the previous load time is used for purposes of highlighting
This method does not track if each individual comment is viewed, but it may be good enough for most people.
If javascript is disabled, and you are not logged in, you do not get this feature. Supporting no javascript is doable, but may not be worth the effort.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday November 18 2015, @04:10AM
Not knowing the specifics of the SN codebase
That can be easily remedied [github.com].
There's even a VM Image [soylentnews.org] you can work with.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Thursday November 19 2015, @01:02AM
Wrong repo, slashcode is the legacy Apache 1.3 codebase. We keep it separate for sites who want to upgrade to rehash (and there have been discussions for non-SN sites on that point). Main repo is here: https://github.com/SoylentNews/rehash [github.com]
Still always moving
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 19 2015, @02:19AM
What NC said and also, the VM image is pre-rehash. Prehash? Whatever. Anyway, we're all currently working off of the dev server because the bloody VM building process requires the awesome skillz of NC instead of my merely wondrous skillz.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Thursday November 19 2015, @03:30AM
What NC said and also, the VM image is pre-rehash. Prehash? Whatever. Anyway, we're all currently working off of the dev server because the bloody VM building process requires the awesome skillz of NC instead of my merely wondrous skillz.
Thanks to NC and TMB for correcting me.
My apologies to all for the incorrect information. I guess I was having a rough night last night.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @01:08PM
Clicking on 'Older Articles' in the 'Older Stuff' sidebar sorts 'By relevancy', which is pretty much a random order since there's no search query. It should sort by 'Most Recent First' instead.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @01:36PM
I second this. It changed with the last update. It also used to display more information per article. I liked the old behavior a lot more because the title and the first line of the article which is always "so-and-so writes...." is not very helpful for browsing/identifying older articles.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @01:18PM
but enough with the politics, people. When everyone knows what your political agenda is because you keep singing the same song in every post, then you are a bad poster and a bad community member.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @01:24PM
Should I post anonymously, then, so they won't know of my dark secrets?
I'm not sure why having your political agenda known makes you a bad poster and a bad community member. Maybe knowing the fact that you think that way makes *you* a bad poster and a bad community member.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @01:45PM
If every time you see a post from Ethanol, he turns the subject back to his personal crusade for Furry Rights, it takes away from the quality of the discussion.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 17 2015, @01:52PM
Are Furries your pet peeve?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @03:16PM
Ha!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @08:25PM
Then once you are about to start ignoring his posts, you see some really good ones. I think he/she strikes the perfect balance to keep you reading through his troll posts.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 17 2015, @01:51PM
I don't know that pretending to not have political positions has particular merit. It's good to know where someone is coming from. But jingoism turns shrill, fast, so I agree with you insofar as that goes.
I have been gratified to see many regulars, who walked in off the street spouting partisan gibberish, come to drop that stuff and reveal the living, breathing complexity of intelligent beings underneath. Focus-group tested talking points make everyone petty and stupid. Reasoned, informed discussion keeps you on your toes, and whets your wits.
So I say, fine, have opinions, but present & defend them brilliantly.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday November 17 2015, @02:26PM
Just to nit pick
1) Who gatekeeps the probably rather immense list of possible positions? Or just allow free text and no graphics?
2) I'd suggest making it optional for non political discussion... someone pissed off at "ABCs" normally wouldn't downvote an insightful rant about why Clojure lisp should have reader macros, and next thing you know its getting downvoted more for the "ABC" party affiliation than because programmer-(re)defined reader macros basically suck for long term code readability.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @05:22PM
My complaint is not that people have opinions or express them. My complaint is that some people (who probably don't even know who they are) bring politics into every goddamn post.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @07:09PM
It's Obama's fault.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @08:29PM
... but he inherited this mess from the Republicans and at least he isn't as bad as Mittens.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2015, @05:09AM
Parent is obviously an SJW, trying to force PC on all of us.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2015, @05:07AM
Shove that PC SJW faggotry up your ass. If we want to have a right-wing circle jerk to make this place into an echo chamber, none of you SJW faggots and your PC patrol will stop us.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @02:09PM
I dare you (yes, YOU) to submit one single story to SN. Once you have done so, you can reply to this post and link to your submission/article.
Doesn't have to be perfect but don't mind if it is.
Besides that, I think this site is great.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @03:44PM
I submitted three stories when the site first went up. All three were rejected just to see at least two for them go up under someone elses name with a worse summary.
No challenge not accepted till Soylent provides feedback.
Also where is my alternate method to get a subscription? Paypal/bitcoins.. nnnnooooooo.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 19 2015, @02:48AM
Look for that around the end of the year. The code's already in the repo.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 19 2015, @02:49AM
Also, credit card (including prepaid ones you get from wal-mart/etc...) billing handled by Stripe rather than paypal will be in the next update.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by darkfeline on Tuesday November 17 2015, @02:52PM
I just checked my preferences to enable polls or something, when I noticed an odd problem.
Why is there no option to set the date/time format to ISO 8601? (2015-11-16T22:23:48+00:00 or at least 2015-11-16 22:23:48) SN is still a tech site, yes? The closest option right now is 2015.11.16 22:23, with regard to which, see https://xkcd.com/1179/ [xkcd.com]
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 2) by quadrox on Tuesday November 17 2015, @10:07PM
The only issue I have with the ISO format is the stupid fucking T in the middle. It makes the entire string unreadable - who came up with that shit?
(Score: 2) by termigator on Wednesday November 18 2015, @03:15AM
ISO 8601 covers other representations, where the use of T is needed to denote the time component. The wikipedia article is informative on the various ISO 8601 formats: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601 [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2015, @03:17AM
(Today is Sweetmorn The Aftermath 29th, YOLD 3181)
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Thursday November 19 2015, @12:53AM
https://github.com/SoylentNews/rehash/issues/229 [github.com] - Filed.
Still always moving
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday November 20 2015, @05:38AM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by timbim on Tuesday November 17 2015, @02:53PM
For science.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @03:01PM
I would actually like less of them. With a large number of points posts are going to +4/5 way faster than they should on site this size. It only takes 4-5 people to bump something up that high. Most stories rarely get 30-40 comments. So +4/5 should be reserved for more 'that is the best of the best' comments. Instead they get tagged up pretty high on fairly banal stuff.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by NCommander on Thursday November 19 2015, @12:55AM
Honestly, too few points and people horde them. Getting people to moderate is tricky, and metamod ... eh, forget about it.
Still always moving
(Score: 2) by SanityCheck on Tuesday November 17 2015, @03:12PM
At a glance it's hard to tell how the site is doing. We want to know... how about some analytics, like visits in last 24 hours type a thing.
The goal bar is also nice, but how about breaking it down and showing number of people who donated?
Is there any chance we can get an API?
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Thursday November 19 2015, @01:09AM
There's a stats system backed into the codebase, but that code hasn't been well checked to make sure there isn't any obvious SQL exploits. The admin code in general is pretty horrific and not well documented or tested by the original authors.
Still always moving
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 19 2015, @02:53AM
You already do: http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/ApiDocs [soylentnews.org]
Doesn't do polls yet but most site functionality is there in rather simplistic form.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by SanityCheck on Thursday November 19 2015, @03:26AM
Noice
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 19 2015, @03:54AM
Some of the features (like two or three) are currently only available on dev but they should be noted in the docs.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by JeanCroix on Tuesday November 17 2015, @03:38PM
I brought this up in a discussion several months ago, and it seemed to get some interest, but I haven't heard anything more. To address the "speed" at which some comments reach a score of 5, might it be a good idea to require the higher scores to receive more up-mods?
In the current system, as far as I can tell, it works like this: 1 up-mod = score 1, 2 up-mods = score 2, 3 up-mods = score 3, etc.
In a scaled system (and yes, the idea came from RPGs), it might work such that 1 up-mod = score 1, 3 up-mods = score 2, 6 up-mods = score 3, 10 up-mods =score 4, and so on.
It might take a bit of time to correctly dial in the right number for each score level, but it could also be re-scaled as the community grows. Think of it as inflation.
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Thursday November 19 2015, @12:50AM
We actually refine the moderation code to make sure that a healthy number of comments reach plus five, while not being every post in existance. Relatively few people moderate and burn all their points, which prevented the initial model (which depending on points being spent) from working very well. Given your UID, you probably remember the many drastic changes to the system we've made over the ages.
Still always moving
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @03:58PM
^^^^^^^^
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @04:08PM
I just remembered a bug I had recently:
foo
bar
baz
This is generated when I type
<quote><code>foo
bar
baz</code></quote>
As you can see, only the first line (foo) is in monospace.
(can't we get a nice Markdown parser instead?)
(Score: 1) by D2 on Tuesday November 17 2015, @06:19PM
Um... I see all three words monospace and in a 'code' box (indent and grey '(' left border). I also see your code in codebox form.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @06:51PM
I doubt that, since the generated HTML for that comment (check the source code to see for yourself) is:
<div class="quote">
<p>
<tt>foo</tt>
</p>
<p>bar</p>
<p>baz</p>
</div>
(Score: 4, Disagree) by gman003 on Tuesday November 17 2015, @04:17PM
There seem to be too many people here who are being excessively tribalistic about things. Comments get moderated up not for actually being insightful or informative, but because they toe the party line - and moderated down if they disagree.
Groupthink has always been a problem for /. and it's children. It's always been easy to rocket straight to +5 Insightful by badmouthing Microsoft or the RIAA or the Patriot Act. The troubling thing here is how ruthlessly this is being done - it's not enough to just upvote those who are aligned with you, anyone against you must be modded into oblivion. I would not be surprised to discover there are accounts made just for this, or that there is off-site coordination of this activity.
It's gotten excessive to the point where I'm getting annoyed at it even when I happen to be on the same faction. Insightful comments (that disagree with me) with are often modded down as troll or flamebait; stupid comments (that agree with me) are often modded up. Even that is getting obnoxious - I do not want to be coddled by constant agreement. I don't want an echo chamber. And I don't think that's what Soylent's users want it to be.
I do not know what the solution is. Perhaps simply making the users aware of the problem will be enough to solve it. Perhaps changes to moderation are needed. But the problem is real, and needs to be solved.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @04:50PM
> Perhaps changes to moderation are needed.
Buzzard will be right on that! Ain't never been a change to moderation he didn't love.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 19 2015, @02:59AM
Actually, it's about ethics in.... no, wait, wrong forum. Actually, I'm pretty happy with moderation as it stands.
gman003 If anyone's in a position to bitch about that it's me and I'm more or less good with how I get moderated. There are enough people willing to give a comment a fair shake to counterbalance the ideologues most of the time. And, really, most of the time is as good as you're ever going to get without capital M Moderators.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday November 18 2015, @01:14PM
I don't think this place will ever turn into an echo chamber as long as jmorris, Ethanol, aristarchus, Buzz, ikanreed, and others are around.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 19 2015, @03:01AM
Yup, I do take great pride in keeping us having the one true diversity; intellectual diversity.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Thursday November 19 2015, @12:44AM
Well, to be fare, we have the disagree mod, and overrated/underrated are still there for their intended purpose. The moment I start blocking people from moderating just because they agree/disagree on something is the first step on a slippery slope :/.
Still always moving
(Score: 2) by gman003 on Friday November 20 2015, @01:01AM
Blocking people from moderating definitely isn't what I'm asking for.
I think the problem might lie in just too many people having too many mod points. If essentially everyone gets five points a day, every day, they're doing to be given away a lot more freely. Something to consider, at least.
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Friday November 20 2015, @05:02AM
The problem is anything else encourages hording (to the point points expire w/o being used just incase something awesome comes along). We ran into this problem the hard way which is why we despense them regularly now.
Still always moving
(Score: 2) by Valkor on Tuesday November 17 2015, @04:18PM
73? QSL...
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Tuesday November 17 2015, @09:04PM
KD2JRT :)
(I actually put the 73 in to see how many people would recognize it for what it was)
Still always moving
(Score: 2) by Valkor on Tuesday November 17 2015, @10:54PM
Great, but I would advise against posting my call, because the FCC ULS is a public database, and the internet is full of really weird people (much like the airwaves. Go figure). I see that you just got your license, so, welcome to the club! You're now a card-carrying nerd!
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Thursday November 19 2015, @12:42AM
Honestly, it doesn't concern me that much. My handle is well known, and my call-sign is associated with my handle on Reddit. It won't be hard to figure out where I lived even before that info went into to ULS so *eh*.
Still always moving
(Score: 2, Insightful) by throwaway28 on Tuesday November 17 2015, @04:50PM
I used to be heavy reader of that other site, which must not be named. But, they've gradually broken compatibility with older browsers, and rendering has become increasingly difficult. Soylentnews; just works. Even in stone age browsers, everything rendered perfectly and effortlessly; well . . . 364 days out of the year. There were some weird visual quirks on last years' april 1st page. ☺
As an introvert who can't talk to anyone; I've really enjoyed the front page visibility of the journal section. Feels like a megaphone of just the right size, to fit the lips of someone who normally can't talk. Much more fun than my previous 3 attempts at blogging (lj ancient, lj 2nd account 2011; self hosted solely 'cause lj's robots.txt forbids crawling, 2011). Even though my webserver is currently down, even though the latency was like 6 months; that last one is still up on archive.org. One of the more popular posts (not sure why) was http://web.archive.org/web/20120212091129/http://ohcamacj.dyndns.org:8088/~jonathan/ljtest/posts/post_2012-02-11.html [archive.org]
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Thursday November 19 2015, @01:01AM
April 1st is kinda a special deal for me and the staff. Its the one day we can be silly and do stuff we don't normally do. It's a massive stress relief, and while I know a vocal part of the community piss about it each year, it lets us have something to look forward to beyond the daily grind of the site.
That being said, I'm curious how the vt100 theme broke compatibility for you (the theme is available year round, we just changed the site default for that date).
Still always moving
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Tuesday November 17 2015, @05:14PM
sudo mod me up
(Score: 3, Informative) by n1 on Tuesday November 17 2015, @10:56PM
[My opinions as an editor and a member of the community is as follows, general response to the above comment and the thread in general. Not ranting at you, TheRaven!]
The timing of articles is extremely difficult for a few reasons. There is only a small editorial team, we always like to have two sign-offs before a story goes on the front page. We would like to have a story every hour of every day on the front page, thats the dream. There are about 6 of us working on it regularly, i've been slacking the last few months due to paying the bills. Each of us have our own commitments and obligations. We are also limited by submissions, always have been, I don't want to be submitting stories all the time.
Finding the balance between timely articles, quality articles and submissions not from staff or regular submitters is not easy. Rarely is an editor 'on-duty' we do what we can, when we can. Due to the desire to maintain a constant stream of new stories, giving each a fair shake, we often run 12hrs ahead in accepted submissions. This gives time for another editor to check them over and accept new submissions and keep consistent.
Many submissions are not time-sensitive and it can be beneficial, in my opinion, to give a story time to digest if it's been seen elsewhere, before discussing it here.
Recently, I accepted a submission and pushed it ahead of already accepted submissions, this story was about the events in Paris as they were happening. This was an exceptional case, it just happened I was online and someone mentioned it on the SN IRC channel. Checked the submissions and there was one, edited it extensively as it was out-of-date even by then. I updated the story twice with additional information as I watched the popular news/media watch Twitter...
This is an example where our process could fail but thankfully did not. If the story was not submitted, the process does not allow me to just run a story as quickly as it was. It has been done, skipping the editorial policy, but it's very rare. This was an exceptional case that would merit that. Most stories are not time critical and the '$1 code' certainly is not. If SN had it a week before the other site, it would not make it subjectively better.
The quality of articles to me is, as it appears to be for you also, extremely important. I feel the site suffers as relatively few of the community make submissions. A small number of people make a lot of them, and this can lead to a drop in quality. I'd like a higher bar for quality and diversity in all forms of content on the site. This is where it gets tricky again though, I do not know what makes a good story. I accept stories about topics I know extremely little about and have limited interest in, I put myself in someone else's shoes and see how they fit, is it interesting? Sometimes I get it wrong, sometimes I do not know. Lack of discussion and views is generally a negative in deciding if a story was a success in the community. Science should be popular, and by this comment section, apparently is, but there's not much to talk about and they get less views as a result.
I made a couple of submissions the other day, CIA Inspector General’s Report on Engagement with the Entertainment Industry [soylentnews.org] was one. This story generated little interest although I find it a fascinating subject that has several elements of interest to the community here, I would have assumed anyway. The same goes for Facebook Data Requests from Governments are Surging [soylentnews.org]. The submission I expected to be least popular was California and New York Are Poorer than You Think [soylentnews.org]. That was the most active and viewed, by a long way.
None of those stories I submitted may be your cup of tea (or coffee, water, beer). That's why I do not submit stories or comment too often.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday November 18 2015, @12:34AM
What n1 said with this addition: of all the sources we pull from, the other site is not one. None of us on staff, editors or otherwise, read the other site anymore as far as I know, so we have no idea what it is running or not running.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by CoolHand on Wednesday November 18 2015, @04:49PM
Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job-Douglas Adams
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @05:40PM
I see that there is at least a draft of a privacy policy on the wiki, but "reasonable and customary" measures do not assure me. "Only if legally compelled" would be better. What I want to know before I sign up is whether you will sell my information to Microsoft, give it to the NSA, or share it with DoubleClick.
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Tuesday November 17 2015, @07:34PM
What I want to know before I sign up is whether you will sell my information to Microsoft, give it to the NSA, or share it with DoubleClick.
Does a privacy policy have any legal standing? As far as I know, it is basically just a "promise", one that can be changed or dumped without notice. I'm happy as long as the site avoids the pile of scripts to run that plague other sites.
(Score: 2) by draconx on Tuesday November 17 2015, @06:22PM
I have a feature request:
I normally only log in to post comments... so when I'm not posting I normally don't bother logging in.
One thing that annoys me is that when browsing as AC, I need to manually adjust the comment thresholds for every single article, because the settings do not seem to persist from one article to the next. I wish the settings would persist for my session (with a cookie), so I only have to change it once and it applies site-wide.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2015, @03:22AM
We kicked this one around a bit before.
In that discussion, I mentioned AutoHotkey / AutoKey (keyboard macro apps). [soylentnews.org]
If you assign your preferred parameters to a keybinding, it's easy to get what you want on the 1st pageload.
(Note what I said there about dragging and dropping stuff into a blanked Address Bar.)
N.B. If there are more than 50 comments, you will likely want to add &startat=0 to the string and bump that to 50 when you want to load the next page.
Caveat: When a thread has 1 or more really long subthreads, it can take some jiggery-pokery with the startat number to get what you want.
...and when a -subthread- has more than 50 comments, you will find that "you can't get there from here" with the nested presentation.
.
Further down in that subthread, others liked the idea of nested being the default presentation (as it was on the other site).
I have mentioned previously that that has the possibility of getting this site more traffic from search engines.
-- gewg_
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Thursday November 19 2015, @01:08AM
It's been discussed. The hard part is making it work with varnish caching. We'd collapse under load if all the ACs hit the backend every page load. I'd be willing to try it with the cavaet that if the site starts buckling due to load we'd have to back it out which don't make anyone happy.
It's also been the opinion that there should be some perks to registering such as keeping settings persistent, and as such no one has really put time into looking how hard this would be do in practice. If we get a patch, I'll merge it and push it out on the next rollout.
While we like ACs, I prefer that regular contributors sign up. I do realize some people don't due to philosophical reasons.
Still always moving
(Score: 1) by Shimitar on Tuesday November 17 2015, @08:24PM
I would like very much a mobile friendly view... something a bit less wide, or where the text can flow for narrow screens...
Coding is an art. No, java is not coding. Yes, i am biased, i know, sorry if this bothers you.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 19 2015, @03:26AM
I'll see if I have time to do up a theme for mobile for the next update round the new year. It'll just be a theme to start with though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @09:56PM
The "pending stories" queue looks like a possible anti-feature to me. After an editor approves a story and puts it into the pending queue, do other editors look at the story and make improvements? If not, then the only thing the queue is doing (as far as I can tell) is adding a delay before the story appears. I see that as undesirable, unless the intention is to discourage people from posting about current events.
I think the site runs on EST, and the time is currently around 17:00. In the pending queue, a story is being delayed so it won't appear until after 3:00 tomorrow morning.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 17 2015, @10:45PM
Minor correction: I was off by an hour. The site seems to be on Atlantic time.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by n1 on Tuesday November 17 2015, @11:21PM
The pending stories (I believe) is there to show what stories are coming to avoid duplicate submissions in the abyss between the submissions list and the main page.
The reason there can be a lot there is because editors are not 'on-duty' at any given time. The idea is to have a story checked by two editors before it goes live, as you suggested, to improve the content or resolve any outstanding issues so we try to make sure there are new stories on the main page regularly.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2015, @01:16AM
I like the pending stories list for that reason but sometimes you can't tell by the title alone. Is there any particular reason why regular users/ACs can't see the body after a story is accepted?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2015, @03:52AM
Sometimes you can view an accepted submission via the Google cache. [googleusercontent.com]
The Wayback Machine is useful once in a blue moon. [archive.org]
-- gewg_
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 19 2015, @03:32AM
So crutchy won't write a script to scoop Bender on every story with his own bot.
Seriously though, we don't allow future stories to be read because they can and do get moved around a lot, majorly edited, or even outright shitcanned while they're in the queue. A story's not remotely guaranteed to be in its final form until it's visible on the main page.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by cmn32480 on Wednesday November 18 2015, @01:36AM
The site runs officially on UTC, but you will see the times in whatever time zone your account has set, I believe.
The pending story queue allows for a few things to happen:
1) Another editor can look over the story, check the links again, and make improvements if necessary. This happens pretty much daily.
2) It allows submitters to see what has already been accepted into the queue, thus preventing what will likely be a declined submission.
3) It allows the editors to pre-program the articles that are going to display.
The last point is the only one that I feel is not pretty self explanatory. Keep in mind that we are volunteers. All of us. The editors, the devs, the sysadmins, the board, and all the rest of the cogs that mesh (pretty harmoniously as a general rule) to make SoylentNews work. Everyone of us takes time away from our jobs, families and personal lives to keep things running. I can say (speaking only for myself) that I don't mind. I rather enjoy it, and see it as more a labor of love than anything else.
But, because we are all volunteers, there is no guarantee that there are editors on duty around the clock. We try our best, but it just isn't possible. Don't let the Authors page [soylentnews.org] fool you, there are not very many active editors, but we are always looking for volunteers! [soylentnews.org]. So the way it goes is that we will front load the story queue in our spare time. Some times we can only push one or two stories. Sometimes we see Herculean efforts that get entire days posted and ready to go out. On a Thursday not too long ago, one editor pushed out the entire weekend worth of stories. This allows us to have lives. Wives, kids, jobs, taking care of loved ones, paying the mortgage to keep a roof over our heads and food in our stomachs.
Sorry for the long answer to a short question.
In other news, the staff agrees on giving you feedback for declined submissions. It has already been written, and is sitting on Github waiting for the next site update, as far as I know.
We hear you when you gripe about the story selection, or something that I screwed up as an editor. It lightens my heart when any member of the community constructively critiques what we do. It means you care. And that is a place I want to continue being a part of.
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear" - Norm Peterson
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday November 18 2015, @04:29AM
After an editor approves a story and puts it into the pending queue, do other editors look at the story and make improvements?
Emphatically, yes. As n1 mentioned, stories require two signoffs before being posted to the main page. The pending stories list is where that second sign off happens. What's more, there can be discussions between editors over various stories in the pending queue, and changes made.
I think the site runs on EST, and the time is currently around 17:00. In the pending queue, a story is being delayed so it won't appear until after 3:00 tomorrow morning.
It's GMT, actually.
Stories are scheduled so they don't all come out at once. This is done on purpose to keep a relatively even flow of stories throughout the day.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday November 18 2015, @04:32AM
cmn32480 did a much better job explaining. Please mod his comment up and consign mine to oblivion.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 1) by zraith on Wednesday November 18 2015, @02:08PM
One feature I really like on the other site is the Most Discussed listing. I always find it interesting to see what other people care about.
Also, more polls would be nice too.
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Thursday November 19 2015, @12:45AM
It's present, just enable it on your slashboxes. Maybe a decent idea to make it default though.
Still always moving