from the we've-been-here-for-you;-will-you-be-here-for-us? dept.
[20200629_140251 UTC: Update 1: Encourage taking care of personal/local needs, first.]
[20200629_191024 UTC: Update 2: Added stretch goal of $1000.00 ]
[20200630_023201 UTC: Update 3: Increased stretch goal from $1000.00 to $2000.00]
[20200630_023201 UTC] What is possibly one of the worst things to hear from an editor? "I'm at a loss for words." Well, it's happened. The SoylentNews community has done it, again! We started today needing $800 to cover projected operating expenses of $3500 for the first half of the year. And you did it! So, I added a stretch goal of an additional $1000. Now you have gone and reached that goal, too! We'd run at a significant loss ($6000 so far), so that is very much appreciated! THANK-YOU!!!. Stretch goal has now been increased to $2000 [so we can continue to track your subscriptions in the Site News block]. Dare I hope? --martyb
[20200629_191024 UTC] The SoylentNews community is AMAZING! In these especially difficult circumstances, we've reached our original goal for ongoing expenses... and then some!
Thank You!!!!
We started today (Monday June 29) needing over $700.00 to cover projected operating expenses for the first half of the year.
We not only reached our original goal of $3500.00, but I added a stretch goal of $1000.00 and we are already 66% of the way to reaching *that*!
Why a stretch goal? Because we have been running at a deficit for a few years. We are are still about $6,000.00 short of having sufficient funds to pay back our benefactor's original $10,000.00 outlay. Any additional funds raised will go towards that purpose whilst giving us a larger safety cushion. --martyb
The original story (after performing Update #1) appears below:
SoylentNews could use your help.
tl;dr The first half of our fiscal year runs Wed. January 1 through Tue. June 30, inclusive. We are at 80% of the funds needed to cover our expenses for the period. If money is tight for you, take care of yourself first. But, if you can help, it would mean a lot to help us to continue to be here for you.
Please subscribe. The subscription amount provided (e.g. $20.00 for 1 year) is the minimum amount for that period; you can change that default to any larger value.
To all who started a new subscription or renewed an existing subscription: Thank You!
Times are tough. First, please take care of yourself and those close to you. But, if you do have funds to spare, we would very much appreciate your support!
Where We Stand:
So far, we have had 106 subscriptions this year which have netted us an estimated $2,794.92 (after processing fees from Stripe/Paypal) towards our goal of $3,500.00.
We run a very lean operation; $20/day keeps everything going. Staffing is all-volunteer; nobody has ever been paid anything for their work on SoylentNews. That includes the editors who get the stories out on the main page. The sysadmins who keep everything running: the servers and all the services like the MySQL databases, Apache HTTP Server, IRC (Internet Relay Chat), email... it's a long list. That we so rarely have issues is a testament to how fortunate we are to have professionals who donate their free time to keep things running. We had to incorporate to be able to accept subscriptions to pay expenses. And with that there are fees for maintaining the incorporation, calculating taxes, and paying them.
Subscriptions Breakdown:
Number of subscriptions for each subscription amount, and the totals at that level, so far in 2020:
Qty Sub Amt Total 7 $4.00 $28.00 12 $5.00 $60.00 2 $12.00 $24.00 63 $20.00 $1260.00 2 $25.00 $50.00 3 $30.00 $90.00 1 $36.60 $36.60 1 $39.39 $39.39 3 $40.00 $120.00 4 $50.00 $200.00 1 $60.00 $60.00 2 $100.00 $200.00 1 $113.00 $113.00 2 $120.00 $240.00
The Pandemic Sucks:
The world has changed in the past six months.
A lot.
The pandemic hit and with it came lock-downs, work-from-home, and social distancing. Closures of movie theaters, restaurants, and bars. Video conferencing became a norm as in-person gatherings were prohibited. And for good reason: worldwide, over 10 million are known to have been infected and over a half million have died. Untold struggles and suffering as we attempt to understand and adapt to a new reality.
We recognized that many of the community were struggling. On April 19th, we extended all subscriptions that were due to expire in April or May to the end of May. If money was tight and it was a choice of renewing your subscription or paying your bills, we'd rather you spend your money locally and so thereby help keep the money in your local community.
Folding@Home (F@H):
SoylentNews is helping in the fight against SARS-CoV-2. You might not be aware, but SoylentNews has a Folding@Home team. We are currently ranked in the top 300 teama in the world (#297 out of 254150 teams)!
F@H is a distributed computing project designed to help understand how proteins fold and thereby search for cures to various diseases. It was originally focused on Parkinson's and Huntington's diseases as well as cancer. With the appearance of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, F@H has pivoted to trying to unravel the behavior of that virus. To this end, many large infrastructure companies (like AWS, Microsoft, Oracle, and Google) have joined the effort.
How it works: Install the client on your computer, instruct it what amount of resources to use, and you are ready to go. The client will periodically download work units and, when completed, upload the results to the F@H servers. The faster the results are computed, the more points are earned. We are team #230319. If you have computes to spare, we'd love to have you join us!
Stories and Discussions:
Through all this, we here at SoylentNews have persevered. People from all over joined us in discussions on the pandemic and so many other topics. We aim for news with a technological focus but will occasionally offer something a little offbeat.
So far in 2020, SoylentNews has posted over 2,100 stories. Separately, the community has posted 700 journal entries. To these 2,800 items, the community has posted 76,000 comments — over 400 comments per day! In addition, there have been over 55,000 comment moderations — that's nearly 300 per day.
Server Upgrades:
We are continuing our efforts to move services from beryllium (our only Centos server) to aluminum (Gentoo). Deucalion (on IRC; aka Juggs on SoylentNews) has been trudging along trying to get things brought over for IRC (Internet Relate Chat). He reports he had a 100-hour long week at work last week, but still managed to make some progress on this over the weekend. There are significant differences between the two, so it has been quite the challenge. Getting userids added to the correct groups; setting up ACLs; chron syntax incompatibilities; the list goes on and on.
Related Stories
WOW!
On June 29th, I posted a story that shared our financial status and asked for the community's support. And did you ever! As noted in that story:
So far, we have had 106 subscriptions this year which have netted us an estimated $2,794.92 (after processing fees from Stripe/Paypal) towards our goal of $3,500.00.
In short, we needed $705.08 to cover our expenses for the first half of the year (2020H1).
I am ecstatic to report that we not only covered that shortfall, but raised an additional $1254.52.
Thank You!!!
See the Subscription FAQ for a list of subscriber benefits. (Note: this is bit old; please mention in the comments if you find anything that is incorrect.)
The extra will go towards covering shortfalls from prior periods, help build our "rainy day" fund, and help us to be able to repay the $10,000.00 that our founders put up to get SoylentNews started.
I'll leave the first-half-year stats up in the "Site News" box for a few days before resetting it for the second half of the year. (That goal will be the same, $3500.00, toward which we have already raised $144.45 or 4.1% as of 20200702_120140 UTC.)
Here is the breakdown of our subscriptions for the first half of this year:
Qty Sub Amt Total 7 4.00 28.00 12 5.00 60.00 2 10.00 20.00 6 12.00 72.00 99 20.00 1980.00 1 20.20 20.20 4 25.00 100.00 1 26.74 26.74 4 30.00 120.00 1 33.33 33.33 1 36.60 36.60 1 39.39 39.39 6 40.00 240.00 9 50.00 450.00 1 60.00 60.00 3 100.00 300.00 1 103.50 103.50 1 113.00 113.00 3 120.00 360.00 2 200.00 400.00 1 400.00 400.00
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 29 2020, @01:14PM (4 children)
You worry more than I do, man. I fully expected to run a loss this fiscal half when I suggested extending subscriptions. A one-third loss would knock our rainy day fund down from about six months of operation at current expenses to about four months. We could live with that in the name of doing our part to keep folks employed by circulating their money in places where it means jobs will continue existing instead of here where it don't. It's sound financial strategy as well as helping a brother out, cause unemployed people have less disposable income for things like subscriptions. Running at a loss is not something we can continue indefinitely but one period of knowingly doing so for specific reasons won't kill us.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by martyb on Monday June 29 2020, @01:58PM (1 child)
"Worried" is not the word I would use.
Each of the members of our board of directors, Matt and Michael, put up $5,000.00 to get us started as a PBC (Public Benefit Corporation). Partly so that SoylentNews could accept subscriptions and become self-supporting. But primarily so that nobody can just shut it down on a whim. It protects the community. As such, we are indebted to them and I believe it is fiscally responsible to be good stewards of their financial support.
They have been most patient and understanding in not demanding we pay them back, but I do not want to take their kindness for granted.
I would not be able to live with myself if we did not make a reasonable effort to remain self-supporting. Just like we've done every time we neared the end of a funding period.
That said, I realize times are tough. If you are struggling, please take care of yourself and those close to you first! But, if you do have funds to spare and would like to help us, it would be very much appreciated!
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 29 2020, @02:22PM
I didn't say it was a bad thing. It's handy to have someone who worries more than yourself around. Saves you a serious toe-stubbing sometimes.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by tekk on Monday June 29 2020, @02:46PM (1 child)
Eh, helps to not use the fund where y'all can though ;)
Money's been a bit tighter lately, but soylent finally got a subscription out of me.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 29 2020, @03:14PM
MAKE THE BEGGING STOP MAKE THE BEGGING STOP
$120
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 29 2020, @01:34PM (6 children)
Sea tietl.
RIP MDC
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 29 2020, @01:38PM (3 children)
Yeah, I miss him too. He was one of my favorite kinds of crazy.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Monday June 29 2020, @01:43PM (2 children)
warplife.com is no more :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 05 2020, @06:41AM (1 child)
His site was supposed to be maintained :(
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 08 2020, @10:07PM
https://web.archive.org/web/20191224012602/http://www.warplife.com/ [archive.org]
And somebody really needs to talk with archive.org about fixing the robots.txt filter so it doesn't block old versions of a domain that gets re-registered/squatted from having its archived pages displayed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 29 2020, @06:35PM
One of my great regrets is not having tried to meet up with him when I went to Portland, Oregon a while back. I could have bought him a coffee and given him some moral support.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 11 2020, @08:42AM
I miss him too
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday June 29 2020, @02:22PM (45 children)
I surmise most (all?) of the $ goes to hosting fees? If that's true, have you considered reducing the cost, including less costly hosting somewhere else?
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 29 2020, @02:36PM (5 children)
Hosting, domain names, taxes, and the CPA. The vast majority goes to hosting. We could trim down what we pay now but we'd have to sacrifice something to do so. Could be services, could be uptime and redundancy. The community seems large and willing enough to foot the bill at the moment but we can trim as necessary if that changes.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday June 29 2020, @02:38PM (4 children)
Thank you, very clear and informative.
How about a less costly host?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 29 2020, @02:40PM (3 children)
For the reliability/utility vs. cost ratio, I really haven't found one superior enough to warrant a move. Feel free to drop a name or two though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday June 29 2020, @02:58PM (2 children)
I don't have any data because I admin and I'm biased.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 29 2020, @09:17PM (1 child)
I don't mind biased suggestions. I wasn't going to take your word for it anyway, I was going to have a look myself.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday June 30 2020, @03:38AM
I was only referring to myself, being the admin for a small hosting company. I've mentioned it more than once dm. You know where to find me. :) So does martyb.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 29 2020, @03:03PM (38 children)
Have you considered contributing something, anything really, even if only the cost of one lousy coffee before asking?
(Score: 4, Touché) by RS3 on Monday June 29 2020, @04:01PM (18 children)
I've offered to host. Not enough?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 30 2020, @02:49AM (17 children)
[Citation needed] - the initial "hosting somewhere else" doesn't seem a serious offer to host.
That being said, I can't totally fault the AC, in spite of being almost rude.
To elaborate: here's a post coming for a person that couldn't find $20 for a subscription, questioning the due diligence of the current S/N admin team.
May be a fault of in the phrasing, but you'll have to admit that this interpretation is possible.
$20 is a lot easier to pay than the effort and resources incurred by hosting.
This makes a hosting offer sound like one too good to be true. I'm not saying that's impossible or insincere, I'm saying that the context doesn't make it probable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 30 2020, @03:40AM (10 children)
We've had several offers of hosting. Currently we're (well I'm at least) pretty damned happy with Linode though. They really do offer a good service, above and beyond just space, cycles, and bandwidth. We've been considering taking someone up on their offer for offsite backups though since we parted ways with RamNode. Only problem there is we'd have to work up an encrypted backup script first, cause it would just be unnecessary temptation and all around bad practice to stick unencrypted DB backups on a user who isn't staff's servers.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday June 30 2020, @04:07AM (9 children)
Thank you for responding to c0lo. He attacks me a fair amount, often AC. I couldn't come up with anything nice to write, so... He interprets too much- he thinks he has sixth sense I guess.
Anyway, of course you'd want to encrypt DB backups going anywhere outside of the direct admins' controls.
I guess you'd just pipe mysqldump output through GnuPG or bcrypt or ccrypt or what're your thoughts?
I don't encrypt my backups currently. Just cron scripts that do some piping and copying and stuff currently. It's not enough of a load to care to do anything any fancier.
(Score: 2) by DECbot on Tuesday June 30 2020, @05:00AM (6 children)
You could try putting the database on a natively encrypted ZFS filesystem. Then cron job snapshots that get ZFS sent somewhere. That way integrity of the backups can continue to be checked without decrypting on the backup server.
Though you might want to run that past a professional system admin, I'm just an enthusiast sysadmin for some personal servers.
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday June 30 2020, @12:43PM (5 children)
That's an awesome idea. I have to think it through, but maybe you're saying to grab the DB in its ZFS encrypted state, and if so, I'm not sure how you get that ZFS image but I'm sure it can be done and I've got many other pressing things stealing most of my neuron cycles. :0
I think the concept was (is?) for sending DB to offsite backups, and they (obviously) don't want to send it out unencrypted. It's just a big ugly SQL file. You can break it up too- table by table, whatever. (mysqldump is the command).
But yeah, ZFS might be a great choice, and that'd be 100% up to SN admins.
I used to be an enthusiast! Them's were fun days. I used to compile kernels almost every day. I'm not a full-time admin. Not to brag, but it's not that much fun anymore, so I do everything I can to design/build/admin for very long-term uptime. Rock-solid dependable no baby-sitting most of the time. Have had a few hardware failures- the occasional disk die and RAID rebuild. One MB literally made a small fire- 1 U rack Dell that blackened the lid. Amazingly the disks were fine so I just popped them into another spare machine and kept rolling. It was a local-only file server. Servers are under constant attack and I've never had a break in. I do employ IP blocking software that works well. There are those here (TMB cough cough) who will scoff but several sites are WordPress and the most problem I've seen is occasional (maybe 2 a year) spam comments, but 1) they don't show until an admin okays them, and 2) I really don't know how it happens- maybe some "back door" in a plugin? The site designers / admins choose their plugins, and there's a guy who does some site design / admin, but I do all the backend, updating, theme and plugin qualification, etc.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DECbot on Tuesday June 30 2020, @04:33PM (4 children)
If I were to attempt this, I'd want to ensure the database was in a rest state during the snapshot. I'm not really a DB admin, so I don't know the best way; if possible pausing transactions might work but stopping the database would definitely work. The ZFS snapshot is instant using the "zfs snapshot" command and if the zpool is natively encrypted, the snapshot will be too. To send it to a remote machine, the "zfs send" command on the sending system to send the snapshot and the "zfs receive" on the receiving system are the builtin methods to do this. That way, you don't even have to dump the database, you just send the snapshot of the filesystem underneath the database. For a recovery, you would reverse the zfs send and receive commands and import/decrypt/mount the snapshot. What's cool about this solution is the backup server can still perform zfs scrubs on the encrypted dataset to ensure block integrity and repair blocks without having to decrypt the data.
Granted running ZFS on a system is not free. ZFS likes to use the available ram to improve read performance and ECC ram is generally recommended to ensure block checksums are not corrupted in ram. There is cpu overhead to encrypt and compress the filesystem too.
I have a samba/minecraft server for pictures/music/movies on ZFS Z2 pool and a postfix/dovecot/apache/roundcube/tt-rss server on an old Jetway MB featuring a 32-bit, low power, single thread Via CPU that I'm eventually going to move to a RockPro64 with a ZFS mirror. I have plans to setup something for home assistant and Octopi on some raspberry pis some time in the future. However, that's for a much later date as I've moved the family into a new place and there's painting, yardwork, and kitchen remodeling that will take pretty much all of my free time.
My adventures in sysadmin has seen a few hd failures on old mdadmin RAID arrays, but I've mostly had to work through power supply failures likely caused by my UPSs. They have killed every power supply with PFC I left plugged in to them for any length of time. That makes senses as their approximation of a sine wave makes the PFC go mad trying to compensate for the stair stepped input voltage.
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday July 01 2020, @01:26AM (3 children)
All very interesting! I wasn't aware power supplies were doing PFC. You'd think the design would have factored in the harmonics because many UPSes create them. Several mental link process led me to think of a gyrator. Any idea what's failing in the PSes?
I don't remember if I ever had a Jetway MB, but I had a Jetway graphics card that was pretty awesome for the price at the time. Early dual-monitor one. I have a couple of Via CPUs I always wanted to use for just a simple NAS. When I first got them I thought they'd work in my existing MBs, but no, had to buy special ones, which I did, but for some reason lost interest. I've noticed most P3 / socket 370 stuff runs very cool. Not so much the Tualatin (sp?) but they're still way less watts than P4. You've got great ideas! You and TMB with the remodeling. :) I do some of that but mostly for $.
One of my "things" is easy recovery. I haven't tried ZFS yet, but anything needs to be easy to boot an optical or USB drive and easily get at filesystems. That said, I'm not a huge fan of LVM because why. But I learnt and adapted. Still not a fan- I don't get it. Okay, maybe for people who are constantly moving things around... I got other things to do, like ramble on online boards. :0
No question DB backup and recoveries are tricky. You really can't guarantee 100% because for example, if right now while I'm typing the DB is shut down, backed up, I hit "submit", my post might be lost (much to the joy of some people here! :) There are a bunch of buzzwords describing all that stuff in DB handling and I forget them. One is "atomic". I just worked on a 70-year old tractor. That's my diversion from too many bytes. :)
(Score: 2) by DECbot on Wednesday July 01 2020, @11:56AM (2 children)
I don't think it was harmonics that killed the PSU. My UPSs are bypassed until there is a power loss. Then they switch on and create a very dirty stair stepped sine wave as they are el cheapo consumer grade CyberPower AVR UPSs. PFC in the fancy power supplies aggressively fix the simulated sine wave, though since the steps are big, the circuitry in the PFC doesn't last long if I have a bunch of power outages or decide to move things without turning off the servers. It's funny that I don't have this problem with the value brand PSUs without the PFC circuit. Same UPS, but years of usage in various different servers.
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday July 01 2020, @03:53PM (1 child)
I'm sorry, one of my problems in communications, especially written like here, is I don't know what others know. I'm an EE, and we learned an amazing and fundamental concept of any kind of signal (anything but DC) - that any waveform is made up of a series of sinusoidal waveforms of specific frequencies and amplitudes. We call it "Fourier analysis" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourier_analysis [wikipedia.org] So by nerdly definition, anything outside of a perfect sine wave has added harmonics.
You could do a fairly simple experiment. A bit of it will require some electronic knowledge. You can use your sound input as a signal sampler, and run software that does oscilloscope waveform display (time domain) and see the stair steps, and then you can run an FFT to see the spectral components (frequency domain).
The electronic knowledge part is where you shift the 120 VAC (or whatever your "lines" voltage is depending on where you are) down to 1 V or so, so that you don't zap the sound input and potentially fry the whole computer. Also, signal ground might be a problem, so again, it requires some electronic knowledge / stuff.
You might find this interesting (or too nerdy, or overwhelming): https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Details-of-FFT-spectrum-for-output-voltage-with-SPWM_fig6_291185126 [researchgate.net]
Or just look at the pretty pictures (who really read the articles anyway!): https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Suresh_Yellasiri/publication/291185126/figure/fig5/AS:320084447907857@1453325487824/a-Simulation-validation-of-proposed-nine-level-inverter-b-Simulation-validation-of.png [researchgate.net]
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Suresh_Yellasiri/publication/291185126/figure/fig6/AS:320159240736771@1453343319374/Details-of-FFT-spectrum-for-output-voltage-with-SPWM.png [researchgate.net]
The stair-step problem is known and being worked on, where people care to. As an EE I'm very disappointed that the PSU mfgr. didn't account for this very well known problem.
My next step (ha ha, get it? sorry...) is to do some research on PFC compensation stuff, but not now, important work calls...
(Score: 2) by DECbot on Wednesday July 01 2020, @06:03PM
I found the answer to this question to have the pretty pictures articulating what I think I'm working with. [superuser.com] I haven't borrowed the oscilloscope from work to determine how terrible my sine wave is, but I know I'm somewhere around low-end given how much I paid for it. I do think your opinion is correct, a decent PSU manufacturer would be aware of these low end UPSs and should perform longevity tests to make sure their products wouldn't fail prematurely. Though, I imagine the testing they actually do is not to prove the quality of the design and components, but to set the maximum warranty length. All of mine died out of warranty. I suspect that the components and design of the active PFC PSUs are paired with a low quality filter that was cheaper to produce in mass with the PLUS 90 energy efficiency rating than the circuit design using just a high quality filter circuit and no PFC but with the energy rating. Though I don't have the time and inclination to test that theory. I mean I didn't even take the time to investigate why the 1st or 2nd PSU died, I just borrowed an old PSU from a retired server that was previously on that UPS. As far as I know, there's just a blown soldered on fuse some where in those two PSUs. My theory of the PFC circuit came after the death of the second unit where I found the old PSU worked fine and I was doing some postmortem research about UPSs and PFC as that was the only thing in common with the two failed power supplies. I intended to order a replacement, but it's been 5+ years since the last failure. This PSU has been in service with that UPS for over 10 years now and I don't want to change something that's working. Maybe my previous post spoke with too much authority on the topic as I didn't validate my theory with a proper tear down of the PSUs possibly causing me to jump to wrong conclusions--as we often say here, correlation is not causation. Let me try to set the appropriate tone, these are my suspicions that I have not taken the effort to prove. Nor do I believe them strongly enough to make it a priority to determine if they are correct.
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 30 2020, @02:56PM (1 child)
Just to clarify, I wasn't defending you, only imparting information. You're perfectly capable of dealing with, ignoring, or laughing at culo's trolling nonsense, same as I am.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday July 01 2020, @12:42AM
You stuck your neck out; I saw a fulcrum. :)
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday June 30 2020, @04:17AM (5 children)
Citation needed. Oh, you imagined that? Well okay then.
Again, you're logic-leaps ahead. So by your decree, I'm not allowed to ask a freaking question? I'm just trying to be helpful here. You really like to troll me.
With you, any left-field interpretation is expected.
When my life gets so bad that I need you to manage me, I'll change my name and move far away first.
You're so far out of reality I don't have... just not worth my time. There's much more going on than you know. Stick to what you know and stop trolling me.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 30 2020, @04:38AM (4 children)
I don't even try to manage you, I'm showing a possible interpretation of what you wrote in the provided context.
Come on, show that the interpretation is impossible. Otherwise, how the heck am I going to learn the reality if you don't even.
I don't understand what's exactly you mean by "left-field interpretation". Care to explain or rephrase?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Informative) by RS3 on Tuesday June 30 2020, @06:13AM (3 children)
There's a saying "he's out in left field" meaning "way off base" meaning fantasy-land, not reality. You do too much reading into things, then deducing conclusions that are based on incorrect guesses and artifact. It's okay to ask questions, but you ask loaded questions- ones based on incorrect assumptions. Like I said, I think you do too much interpretation. But that said, I think a lot of people do far too much interpretation- especially these days. I think it causes some of the worst problems in the world. Read up on the "Dunning-Kruger effect". https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740 [verywellmind.com] I call it arrogance, or overly-confident, but someone got some grant money to study and document it. Possibly named "Dunning" and "Kruger"... (that's my sarcastic humor that many of my friends (real life ones) would get the humor right away. Mostly the making fun of ludicrous ideas that qualify for grant $. Read about this guy if you don't know him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Lesko [wikipedia.org] )
You make a good point about subscribing, but a tiny subscription isn't going to pay big $ that the hosting costs. The current hosting is awesome and could handle vastly more size and traffic than SN has currently. I know the founders had high hopes for a large membership here, and I was hoping the same, but I see some problems that drive people (and their $) away, IMHO.
As the admin for a small hosting company I can do far more for SN by negotiating hosting for far far less $. Making any sense yet? I've been in private communication, a bit, that you know nothing about and isn't your business, about possibly hosting this site. I have a great deal of unused bandwidth available. Slightly used, but very awesome (more CPUs and RAM and TB than they have now) servers are available cheap ($160). I'm not (in any way) a salesman (and can't stand pushy people). I've made offers and if the admins here want to, they can contact me to discuss, brainstorm, and negotiate.
Does that make sense yet? Most people get it. I know there's a lot of good in you and I don't mind clarifying things- because you asked. :) When I was younger I didn't comprehend a lot of things in life, like movies. If it wasn't spelled out, I didn't get it, but I didn't make assumptions. Somehow my brain grew some connections and I'm able to deduce and connect things- so much that most movies and TV shows are boringly predictable. A few aren't. But I'm off topic. I don't mean to be so verbally mean, and I'm extra unhappy that I wrote sharply. You've trolled me before and I'm probably misunderstanding you- we misunderstand each other. I know I sometimes write- well, my attempts at brevity sometimes leave some people out. You like truth and hate BS (as do I) and you want backing info and citations, and that's okay, but you ask by attacking and putting me on the defensive. I'm learning, and I hope some of this is helpful to you and that we can become friends, and I mean it. Have a good day!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Tuesday June 30 2020, @06:37AM (2 children)
Thanks for the explanation.
I suspect a cultural reference so very specific to US, probably coming from baseball by the terminology it uses.
Apologies, after quite a large numbers of years in engineering, one gets to look of "what can go wrong" before it does.
Well, not providing enough context is bound... nay, highly likely to create a lot of problems too - my opinion leans those problems are far worse than those caused by reading too little.
And this simply because there are so many ways the things to go wrong and so few ways for things to go right.
Oh, how much of the meaning of your original message would have been more precise if you only added this tidbit to it as context.
Don't you think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday June 30 2020, @01:01PM (1 child)
Yes, sorry for the USAian colloquialism. I don't know who's from where but iirc you're NZ or AUS maybe- no matter. Non-USAians love to point out how we USAians are not as world savvy as many esp. European and Oceanic. That said, we're getting better, I think, maybe? Some of us? Trying?
My best friend is not an engineer, but certainly does intense engineering R&D and he is stunning at telling me what and how something can go wrong with any ideas, mine included. It's one of the things I most like and revere about him. Most of life needs someone to do that- govt, engineering, medicine, business... And frankly he can be very direct, but somehow his delivery doesn't come across harshly at all. But knowing you're also an engineer helps a lot- we can be a very surly group. We're so focused on facts and truth and that's just how it ends up coming across.
All I was trying to say is: you're correct, I did not give all kinds of details. I'm big on context, and to me the context is this: if I read something that I don't comprehend because data / details / citations are missing, I move on. It wasn't intended for me. If it is for me, like a work assignment, I do my best to gather the info I need. One of the "engineers" (he had no degree but was a pretty poor code monkey) I used to work with was like that- assignments from the top boss would be met with insurmountable walls from monkey. I'm kind of the opposite- I'm the eager enthusiast who loves the challenge of making something work, and occasionally to a fault, with as little help as possible (especially from the grumpy crowd). :)
I don't mean to be demeaning, and sorry for redundancy, but again, my comments were brief and made sense for the targeted audience. If you're part of the SN admin team, or just wanted to be more "in" on the conversation, it's okay to ask. Skepticism is perfectly okay by me, but maybe a less surly approach?
I have NOTHING to do with the "Dilbert" comics, but today's is just too appropriate (and actually helped me understand you before I read your most recent post:
https://assets.amuniversal.com/e679f1a08d7f013808e1005056a9545d [amuniversal.com]
Thanks man!
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 30 2020, @01:15PM
Touche.
About those cooties: LOL, thanks for that, made me feel good close to the time of day change (yes, I'm hailing from Australia).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by martyb on Monday June 29 2020, @04:03PM (1 child)
I think it is a fair question. Certainly, I'd like to know that whomever might receive money from me would be good stewards of my trust.
For starters, $7,000 for a whole (365-day) year works out to just under $0.80 per hour.
Since July 24, 2009, the federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour [wikipedia.org]. At that rate (excluding hosting costs, taxes, CPA, feeds, etc.) one year would cost... $63,510.00
I'd like to think the community is getting a pretty good deal here.
That said, if someone has had a good experience with a US-based provider, please let us know and we can look into it. Either reply here, or send an email to: admin (at) soylentnews (dot) org
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 5, Funny) by c0lo on Monday June 29 2020, @04:30PM
Have you tried the Utah Data Center [wikipedia.org]? They may have spare capacity lately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday June 29 2020, @04:11PM (16 children)
Someday I'll stop replying to you ACs. Sadly some of you are good people. Your post is condescending, and strongly worded as such. I've considered all kinds of things- what's it to you? Drink lousy coffee if you wish- it's irrelevant to me. I can ask anything I want to, and your attempt at belittling is annoying and demotivating.
I could insult you all day but I have better things to do. I'll give you a real answer that you don't deserve: I don't contribute to (enable) things I don't agree with. For the size and traffic on SN, they're paying way too much. I greatly admire the founders and maintainers of SN, and I kind of feel sad for them that they're paying so much for hosting. I also don't agree with some aspects of the site. 'nuff said.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 29 2020, @04:53PM (11 children)
Don't let the trolls get you down.
You've contributed a lot to this community, just in your comments alone.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday June 29 2020, @05:14PM (10 children)
You're much too kind to be AC. :) Thank you. I really only wish to contribute. Trolls like to nip at the ankles, but when you kick at them, they crawl back under the bridges. I just don't like having to kick, know what I mean?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Monday June 29 2020, @05:40PM (7 children)
You know you've really arrived when you attract your own personal trolls. It's a rite of passage.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday June 29 2020, @05:53PM (5 children)
I need a 'humorously insightful' mod for you.
I'm laughing, but it's a dubious distinction- I don't know whether to laugh or cry. There's a saying: 'there's no such thing as bad publicity' but I think I'd rather be less known, or at least be able to pick and choose my trolls. I've tried intentionally feeding them (with poisoned stuff) but they don't bite. They spring when you least expect them. I hate having to be on guard 100% of the time. We need a troll filter. Certain people won't be able to see my posts.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Phoenix666 on Monday June 29 2020, @11:13PM (4 children)
I like to think we have a more interesting sort of trolls around here. They're like chimeras of the one-dimensional breeds you get elsewhere. Generally, they're a bit more intelligent than the average bear, but are far more delusional and inventive with their delirium, marbled with generous helpings of Asperger's and other maladies common to techies. Even our small handful of resident nazis (I mean real, literal nazis, not the broad, useless smear cast around these days) are much more interesting than anything you'd find on Stormfront.
So when one of them latches on to you, like a demented little puppy suffering from distemper and irritable bowel syndrome, it's kind of endearing. Two years ago or so I attracted one who seems like a low-level government apparatchik at Foggy Bottom or Langley, up to his ears in the Kool-Aid, who has convinced himself in turns that I'm a Russian operative, a Chinese shill, and other things. I imagine that somewhere on a wall in his mom's basement he has printouts of my posts connected by lengths of red string, cross-indexed with clipped newspaper articles and fragments of maps.
It's good times.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 30 2020, @02:53AM
That's a sample of quite a nice imagination. True, not yet to the level of "more delusional and inventive with their delirium".
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday June 30 2020, @04:31AM
Great post- I'm laughing and crying. What bugs me is that some (most?) of the trolls are real users with mod points who hide under their AC bridges and nip at ankles by modding me "troll" when I was not trolling. I wish I could find them more entertaining but I'm more creeped out. I feel like I have a voyeur watching me wipe my butt. Maybe they're trying to learn something.
(Score: 2) by DECbot on Tuesday June 30 2020, @06:30PM (1 child)
Tread lightly, here be dragons!
It's all fun and games until you start spotting your personal trolls at the grocery store, post office, library, place of work, walking dogs in front of your house, etc... It's even worse when they're clever and don't alarm your neighbors when they are stalking you. Or when your neighbors are in on it too and completely deny hiding the troll in the attic or in the bushes when he's plainly just right there.
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday July 01 2020, @12:45AM
The more I post, the more a kind of "Streisand effect" is happening here...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 05 2020, @02:30PM
I miss MDC.
You know you had crossed a line when he took the time to try to mess with you.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 30 2020, @01:00AM (1 child)
I'd point out that someone disagreeing with you, even vehemently, doesn't make them a troll.
It just makes them folks who disagree with you. You have repeatedly called folks who disagreed with you (even those who have done so calmly and politely) 'trolls'.
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
That said, please carry on.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 30 2020, @01:16AM
Same AC replying to myself.
I'd have posted the above as my logged in self, but I didn't feel like getting mod bombed by you as you've done before when I've simply disagreed with you.
Again, as I said, please carry on.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 29 2020, @08:01PM (1 child)
"For the size and traffic on SN, they're paying way too much."
I don't really know much about the various hosting services but what are some alternatives? Maybe someone here can consider some alternatives you have in mind or at least there could be a discussion of the pros and cons of each. Such a discussion could be informative for everyone here as well.
Thanks.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday June 30 2020, @06:21AM
Yeah, again, I don't know, other than just doing websearch, because I run a small hosting company (I don't own it, but I'm the only IT person) so my solution would be to host it for SN. It would take a bit of organized discussion, offline. As I've written here more than once, I've offered and it's up to them to write back and start a discussion process. I have ideas, but I (truly) hate wasting time, like I have many times in life, planning something out that never comes to fruition. They've mentioned some good reasons to keep things where they are, and if they get the funding, that's awesome for everyone.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday June 30 2020, @05:48AM (1 child)
It reminds me of the old quip:
Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do >this<
Doctor: Well, don't do that then
We run out of money when we spend it all on hosting. Well, ...
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday June 30 2020, @06:30AM
Yeah, I'm with you. As I've written (probably several times now above) I've seen this problem here (hosting cost vs. $ coming in) for the past several years and offered to host before, and again recently. They know who they are, and they know how to reach me. :)
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 29 2020, @02:27PM (9 children)
Will I receive a t-shirt and a photo of the poor underfed Soylenter I saved?
(Score: 5, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 29 2020, @02:39PM (7 children)
We could probably score you a naked picture of EF. Honestly, the trick is not getting a naked picture of him.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 29 2020, @04:22PM (3 children)
I already have the poster size goatse. So... only if it's autographed.
(Score: 4, Funny) by RandomFactor on Monday June 29 2020, @04:41PM (2 children)
Demand the scratch and sniff version.
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 3, Funny) by Gaaark on Monday June 29 2020, @08:06PM
Funny, but,.............NOOOOOOO!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 30 2020, @06:45AM
How about a 3D version?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday June 29 2020, @11:15PM (2 children)
I've never received a naked picture of EF. I don't know whether to feel relieved or left out.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 29 2020, @11:37PM
You can't be "relieved" until you have the photo.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 30 2020, @12:44AM
Should have spent more time in IRC. I think it's still in the logs [sylnt.us] if you feel like searching. I'm certainly not going to subject myself to it again to find it for you though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Monday June 29 2020, @07:00PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 29 2020, @02:53PM (2 children)
I'll probably get a subscription. But I'm not going to run Folding@Home because it's proprietary software. They have refused to open source the client, so I don't trust it.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday June 29 2020, @04:20PM
I did run F@H for many months earlier in the year on a few CPUs. The watts contribute to heating the house, so no loss there. I tried to give my "points" to SN, but for some reason at least 1/2 went to some other group. I was unable to get any help with it. I uninstalled and re-installed, removing all F@H data and registry info, and the points still went to another group. I installed on fresh new machines, same result. There's no direct help that I could find. IIRC help forums had no categories for work unit points. And finally, I saw, very happily and very good for them, that some huge entities were running F@H so I shut it down.
But the F@H software is very well behaved, easy to control, etc. Some numbers: idling, the one computer drew about 70 watts, running F@H full/max, drew about 105 watts.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Monday June 29 2020, @05:17PM
Do as you see fit. I have made accomodations for some non-free software. If you want to run CUDA, you're probably going to install non-free binaries anyway. Nvidia has a lot of open software, but to install the driver and all of the CUDA software, you have to accept some non-free stuff.
There's no need to apologize for doing what you think is right. I'm a little bit proud of my, and our, contributions. We, as a team, are helping the world, a little bit, I think. But you don't have to compromise your beliefs to contribute something somewhere. I'm quite certain that BOINC has a lot of stuff going, just as worthy as F@H.
Enjoy!
(Score: 2) by quietus on Monday June 29 2020, @03:44PM (38 children)
(Score: 1) by hman on Monday June 29 2020, @04:09PM
(subscribed a year)
IIRC you can have paypal with Iban money transfer somehow, don't remember how though or how long ago that was.
If you are willing check the fine print on the paypal site and report back please :-)
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Monday June 29 2020, @05:20PM (29 children)
That is only silly, in view of the fact that Gubbermint is going to stop writing checks soon. If you don't have a card, you won't get any benefits at all.
NOTE: I'm only half joking. Applying for unemployment benefits in Arkansas automagically gets you a debit card, with which you withdraw your funds. From what I've seen on Youtube and other sites, EBT recipients get a card that looks just like any other credit card - it doesn't even say "EBT" on it.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by quietus on Monday June 29 2020, @06:41PM (3 children)
The unstoppable rise of the cashless society, eh?
(Better to Pay in Cash, in Confessions of the Pricing Man, Hermann Simon, Springer, 2015)
(The research mentioned above is an October 2011 discussion paper (Nr 22/2011 [ssrn.com]) for Germany's central bank, the Deutsche Bundesbank, Using cash to monitor liquidity implications for payments, currency demand and withdrawal behavior.)
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday June 29 2020, @09:45PM (2 children)
Those stupid cops & robbers shows from late last century were educational. Everyone who ever watched them knows that credit card purchases are recorded, tracked, analyzed, and run through myriad data bases to search for correlations. Did you know that one brand of antacids are used exclusively by fascists, while another brand is used exclusively by antifascists? Don't like the antacid correlation? Make your own up - it will be as valid as most others.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Tuesday June 30 2020, @04:19PM
Antifacid?
(Score: 2) by quietus on Wednesday July 01 2020, @04:34PM
I do not know. Right now businesses still seem to do an awful job in attempting to seduce me into buying, but a few random thoughts:
I will start drooling now.
(Score: 2) by quietus on Monday June 29 2020, @06:58PM
As an aside, on quickly checking out the GAO report [gao.gov] on how the covid money under ARES(*) has been spent:
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 29 2020, @06:59PM (23 children)
Of course it doesn't. We wouldn't want people on the dole to be embarrassed spending other taxpayer's money.
(Score: 4, Touché) by istartedi on Monday June 29 2020, @11:40PM (22 children)
We wouldn't want people on the dole to be embarrassed spending other taxpayer's money.
Seriously, we don't. Don't judge somebody until you've walked a mile in their shoes. I'm old enough to remember when people had to pay with physical food stamps at the register, and I'm sure it was embarrassing for them. Of course that system was rife with corruption because people would sell the coupons for pennies on the dollar to get drugs. If they were passing it at the register for food, that was the least embarrassing thing you could do with it, but I'm sure they still got dirty looks.
Also, do you think some owner of a football team should be embarrassed for taking taxpayer money to get a stadium built? If not, why?
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Tuesday June 30 2020, @12:39AM (20 children)
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 30 2020, @03:41AM
Do lawyers and politicians count or are we talking strictly human beings?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 30 2020, @03:49AM (18 children)
Rookie mistake. One doesn't start the serial killer career before one gets a backyard or a pickup truck able to carry a couple of barrels of acid.
This is to say your analogy is entirely flawed and loaded; at the best, people on the dole will advance to "simply killers", they lack the proper tools of the trade to avoid early cop's interference.
(large grin)
And I have this nagging suspicion you used this loaded analogy on purpose, just to paint the people on the dole as criminals or something.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 30 2020, @03:52AM (7 children)
And if I did, do you have the intellectual resources to do something about it?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 30 2020, @04:11AM (3 children)
You mean, do more than to call it out?
That may be an intellectually valid endeavor, but otherwise an other-than-wise one (i.e unwise).
You see, some saying about fighting pigs springs in my mind (also supported by the fact the individuals of Sus scrofa domesticus species may be as intelligent as the primates [seeker.com]).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 30 2020, @04:37AM (2 children)
I notice that you didn't actually call anything out.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 30 2020, @04:45AM (1 child)
Ok, we have different understandings on the meaning of "calling it out".
Since I'm not inclined to engage in an intellectual pissing contest, we may as well end this thread here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Funny) by khallow on Tuesday June 30 2020, @12:05PM
Good call.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday July 01 2020, @10:33AM (2 children)
Shut up, khallow! You remember that thing we talked about? You're doing it again.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 02 2020, @12:43AM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday July 02 2020, @02:25AM
You fool, khallow! It is a movie reference! "War Games" with Matthew Broderick.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001999/?ref_=tt_trv_qu [imdb.com]
Just letting you know, like you asked me to, that you're doing it again.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 30 2020, @04:31AM (9 children)
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 30 2020, @04:40AM (8 children)
Any "circle" has fringes.
If you demonize those fringes and eliminate them, in time you yourself will end being a fringe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by istartedi on Tuesday June 30 2020, @05:33AM (2 children)
This gets close to a proper rebuttal to the counter-point to my original suggestion. "Don't judge somebody until you've walked a mile in their shoes" is not an absolute. The person who suggested that the statement is flawed because it should include serial killers is suggesting that it *is* an absolute. In general, assuming that a proverb like that is absolute tends to lead to just these kinds of fallacies.
For example, "do unto others as you would have done unto yourself". If you take it too literally, you end doing something totally wrong like buying your wife a bunch of fights on pay-per-view.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 30 2020, @05:53AM
Well, in the context, I reckon is not that bad, as it will balance out; for example, your wife may buy you some high heels and sexy fishnet stocking.
Oh... wait... that's bad! You'll need some leg hair removal sessions!
Ummm... I think you may be right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 30 2020, @12:16PM
Ignoring that the proverb actually was absolute, we still have no guidance from you on when it applies. Why does the proverb apply to welfare deadbeats and not to corporate welfare deadbeats? Why aren't you demanding that we walk a mile in the shoes of the stadium owner before decrying the public funds he's using to build his stadium?
Another reason why proverbs like this tend to lead to these sorts of "fallacies" is because they are false even in the non-absolute sense. We need to make split-second judgments all the time, for an important class of judgments that can't afford to walk a mile in anyone's shoes. It could be deciding whether that car ahead of you is a risk to you, whether to follow that YouTube link provided by the poster who just blathered about SJWs and libtards, or whether you really want to read that pamphlet that the strange guy just gave you in the parking lot while you're rushing to finish some errands. Judgment happens all the time and it is healthy.
Further, I think people are ignoring how effective these soft discouragements are at keeping societies running. For example, I think a big part of the reason that the Scandinavian countries can survive their levels of social programs is because they have social factors like embarrassment driving down the demand for the programs. IMHO, that's also one of the big tools in primitive tribes for getting rid of leeches in the tribe.
Overconsumption of social safety nets is a bigger problem than embarrassment and shame. That's why so many societies which have widespread cooperative behavior, also have embarrassment and shame in the tool box.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 30 2020, @12:22PM (4 children)
Just like we better not demonize and eliminate serial killers because otherwise in time we'll end being serial killers? Or at least a fringe that the "circle" thinks is as bad as serial killers today? Sorry, not buying it.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 30 2020, @12:33PM (3 children)
I'd rather classify them as "outside", but then I can't stop you if you want to include serial killers in your circle.
BTW, I note that you still didn't address the issue of your analogy of equating "people on the dole" with "serial killers", how are they the same in the context of the discussion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 30 2020, @12:37PM (2 children)
They're still part of society until exposed. That makes them fringe.
You've already addressed it. It's analogy.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 30 2020, @12:49PM (1 child)
fringe group [collinsdictionary.com]
You'll need to demonstrate is a valid one to accept it as a premise of an valid argument.
Fail this and I'm out of a discussion that may lead to incorrect conclusion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 30 2020, @01:42PM
The fact that I wrote it is demonstration that I think it's a valid argument. So this is a matter of demonstrating to you, right? All we have presently is some claim that people on the dole don't have the infrastructure to support serial murder and a "nagging suspicion" that they are implied to be "criminals or something". It just doesn't sound like much needs to be validated?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by cmdrklarg on Wednesday July 01 2020, @08:23PM
That way, you're a mile away and they don't have their shoes.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday June 29 2020, @09:31PM (4 children)
You could get a Visa debit and attach it only to its own account, that way limiting your financial exposure.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 30 2020, @03:10AM (3 children)
You are far more protected with a credit card than a debit card. If someone falsely charges the credit card they have defrauded either the bank or the merchant. Despite what banks try to claim in their contracts, you are not responsible for a debt you didn't incur.
If someone scams your debit card the bank will simply say that the thief took your money. Tough luck.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 30 2020, @03:44AM (1 child)
It's funny how credit card fraud lands on the merchant, debit card fraud lands on the individual, and nothing whatsoever lands on the banks. Not sure how that needs to be fixed but there's some serious fuckedupedness there that does need fixing.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 30 2020, @03:55AM
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday July 01 2020, @12:54AM
Which is why you keep a special account for the debit card, and only deposit as much as you need for the transaction, and maybe a bit extra. I do it and it works. Maybe my bank is different, but they blocked an ebay purchase because every transaction is vetted by a 3rd party security company and the seller had been flagged (but not by ebay nor paypal).
Only pain was- nobody would admit why the card was blocked until I pestered the bank several times. Overall it was a win and I'm grateful to the bank because as you said, they probably don't have to vet debit card transactions.
(Score: 4, Informative) by inertnet on Monday June 29 2020, @10:10PM (1 child)
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 01 2020, @03:07AM
> provide the bank account details where to send the money to.
Be careful with this. About 15 years ago I started up a group for students to pool their money to purchase an expensive service, useful to a project they do at uni. I posted bank account details in a discrete corner of the web for students to join the consortium by direct money transfer. Within a couple of months, a thief attempted to withdraw a good chunk of money out of the account to an Ameritrade brokerage account, more than was in the account.
Luckily, the account was at a local bank branch where I knew the manager & some tellers. They spotted the transaction and called me asap. I filled out some paperwork to swear that I wasn't trying to steal money from the account (and didn't know who tried), changed the account numbers, and never heard any more about it.
I did a little searching, but never found a way to post bank account numbers that were only valid for transfers-in (deposits). If any one knows how to do that, please let me know!