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posted by on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:00PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the silver-linings dept.

The Mighty Buzzard writes:

Congrats to the wannabe APK noobtard for advancing the site's codebase despite me having extremely limited time to play. I added three lines of code and now Spam modded comments (and comment trees) auto-collapse and you can still moderate a comment as Spam even if it's already at the minimum score. Honestly, the folks using any other downmod on obvious Spam annoy me more than the noobtard does but that annoyance at least is now history. Changes are to hot code only, I'll put them in the repo as part of my next pull request.

Suck it, noob. --TMB

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  • (Score: 5, Funny) by DeathMonkey on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:08PM (16 children)

    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:08PM (#1046032) Journal

    Soylent is censoring alternative viewpoints! Making editorial decisions about what comments shall be posted!

    So long CDA 230 protection if the conservatives get their way!

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:17PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:17PM (#1046038)

      Logic not your thing? It looks to me like Soylent News is giving the logged-in users the power to downmod what they feel is wasting everyone else's time. If you want to call downmods "censorship", that's your prerogative, but it's not "Soylent News" proper doing the downmodding, and it's certainly not censorship.

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:24PM (3 children)

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:24PM (#1046048) Journal

        If you want to call downmods "censorship"

        I don't. I was making fun of the people here who regularly do.

        • (Score: 3, Touché) by barbara hudson on Thursday September 03 2020, @09:30PM

          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday September 03 2020, @09:30PM (#1046074) Journal
          And just because a comment is sitting at -1 doesn't mean it's been removed. Mods are an expression of opinion. Freedom of expression means being able to downmod to MINUS_INFINITY
          --
          SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
        • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday September 03 2020, @11:36PM

          by PartTimeZombie (4827) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 03 2020, @11:36PM (#1046115)

          That particular A/C is a flat-earther. Don't expect him to understand your excellent joke.

          Whoosh! is a phrase invented for him.

        • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @01:03AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @01:03AM (#1046140)

          I don't. I was making fun of the people here who regularly do.

          Well alright alright alright!

    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:18PM

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@soylentnews.org> on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:18PM (#1046039) Homepage Journal

      Yes, Soylent, the community, can. And if they step outside the unchanged Spam mod guidelines today, they'll get the same smack they would have yesterday.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:26PM

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@soylentnews.org> on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:26PM (#1046050) Homepage Journal

      Fair troll by the way. I kinda had to answer but you hooked an AC too.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 4, Funny) by aristarchus on Thursday September 03 2020, @11:42PM (8 children)

      by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday September 03 2020, @11:42PM (#1046120) Journal

      Suck it, noob. --TMB

      This is what I have always liked about TMB: his unbridled professionalism.

      --
      Die Republikkkanische Partei isst die weissvolken partei.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @01:38AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @01:38AM (#1046154)

        His professionalism is still lower than his modesty and level of consciousness on his intellectual limits.

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 04 2020, @03:58AM (6 children)

        Partially intentional. Making it abundantly clear that us staff are not ever going to be some magical paragons of virtue or whatnot keeps you lot from being able to hold me to some higher standard than yourselves. You want to beat me in an argument, you're going to have to earn it; dragging it into the mud ain't gonna cut it here.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday September 04 2020, @05:10AM (3 children)

          by aristarchus (2645) on Friday September 04 2020, @05:10AM (#1046215) Journal

          Not clear about what you're saying, Buzz? You are just a Arkansas version asshole, since moving to the "Mother of Arkansas" Tennessee? Or that your idea of professionalism is reducing yourself to the level of an apk, which I can totally see you doing. But, my point was, as a professional code-monkey, you should never take it personally. And never lobby for the suppression of aristarchus submissions, as you have in the past. Professionalism, Busstard, there are Codes of Conducts for professionals, that do not apple to mere mortals. You are above this.

          --
          Die Republikkkanische Partei isst die weissvolken partei.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @10:09AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @10:09AM (#1046268)

            [Grabbing bucket of popcorn and propping feet up]

            No, no. Don't mind me. I'm just enjoying the show between you two.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 04 2020, @03:21PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 04 2020, @03:21PM (#1046340) Journal

            But, my point was, as a professional code-monkey, you should never take it personally.

            How about an unprofessional code-monkey? Is taking it personally ok then?

            Professionalism, Busstard, there are Codes of Conducts for professionals, that do not apple to mere mortals.

            I agree with TMB. He has taken this discussion beyond the professional level. And Codes of Conducts is dog whistle for turning the site over to SJWs. Never!!!

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday September 05 2020, @03:23PM

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@soylentnews.org> on Saturday September 05 2020, @03:23PM (#1046780) Homepage Journal

            Nope. Not happening. And my N, O, P, and E keys are in no danger of wearing out, so don't expect a different answer any time soon.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 1) by nsa on Friday September 04 2020, @05:29PM (1 child)

          by nsa (206) on Friday September 04 2020, @05:29PM (#1046406)

          Making it abundantly clear that us staff are not ever going to be some magical paragons of virtue or whatnot keeps you lot from being able to hold me to some higher standard than yourselves.

          Congrats to the wannabe APK noobtard ... [] ... Suck it, noob. --TMB

          I don't know if TMB has been clinically diagnosed as mentally retarded, but it wouldn't surprise me. I for one certainly had higher hopes for this site when it launched. Whatever.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday September 05 2020, @03:28PM

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@soylentnews.org> on Saturday September 05 2020, @03:28PM (#1046782) Homepage Journal

            You expected staff to not be ordinary human beings? You expected us to act like opinionless automatons and stay out of any discussion? Or maybe you just wanted us to have to censor ourselves to be considered professional so we can either be forced to lose any heated disagreement or not have said disagreement in the first place and get our petty tyrant on?

            No, thanks. I'm not special and I refuse your pedestal.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
  • (Score: 3, Flamebait) by chromas on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:20PM (7 children)

    by chromas (34) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:20PM (#1046042) Journal

    A little damage to the site here and there invites progress. The Broken Windows Vista phallusy strikes again!

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:23PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:23PM (#1046046)

      Just put your phallusy away chromas! You little DEVIANT!

      • (Score: 4, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:30PM (5 children)

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:30PM (#1046053) Journal

        Seems like a rather uncomfortable way to break a window.

        • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Thursday September 03 2020, @09:02PM (4 children)

          by MostCynical (2589) on Thursday September 03 2020, @09:02PM (#1046067) Journal

          new!! carbon fiber condoms!!

          --
          "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @10:21PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @10:21PM (#1046090)

            I don't know who those would hurt more. The wearer or the receiver. yikes!

            • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @10:52PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @10:52PM (#1046097)

              If there is a receiver, then the condom has failed.

            • (Score: 3, Funny) by MostCynical on Thursday September 03 2020, @11:17PM (1 child)

              by MostCynical (2589) on Thursday September 03 2020, @11:17PM (#1046105) Journal

              'It is more blessed to give than to receive.' "
              Acts 20:35 [biblehub.com]

              --
              "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @04:40AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @04:40AM (#1046207)

                Bless you, Now my turn.

  • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:20PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:20PM (#1046043)

    loser noobs should be kept in a cage, like vicious dogs

  • (Score: 1) by fakefuck39 on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:22PM (3 children)

    by fakefuck39 (6620) on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:22PM (#1046045)
    The slide down the slope starts.  This site does not have a large enough userbase for autisshtic ranting about hosrts files to be a problem.  In fact, those add to the discussion, much like a sprinkle of pepper adds to a good steak.  I'm already reading at -1.  What you're saying is despite me saying "I just want to see the raw information," you're going to what I see based on what people choose.  This means my info stream is now filtered by random idriots on the internet.
    The lammes filter is bad enough.
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:28PM (2 children)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@soylentnews.org> on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:28PM (#1046051) Homepage Journal

      It'll be a user preference when it goes permanent, this is just a temporary band-aid. You know us, never met a potential user setting we didn't want to have to code around...

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 1) by fakefuck39 on Thursday September 03 2020, @11:35PM (1 child)

        by fakefuck39 (6620) on Thursday September 03 2020, @11:35PM (#1046114)

        I should have expected that. So not a slippery slope, just a quick duct tape to be replaced by a solid ethical fix. Well, good job then, and I apologize for jumping the gun, you loser hippy on his 800th hour of looking at a fucking tree from his floater-mobile.

  • (Score: -1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:23PM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:23PM (#1046047)

    But I have to open all comments anyway, since I don't want to miss anything the democrat mob has modded to -1.

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:25PM (13 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:25PM (#1046049)

    Not clear on what defines "spam". I always thought it was someone trying to sell something...

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:31PM (12 children)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@soylentnews.org> on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:31PM (#1046055) Homepage Journal

      Here ya go [soylentnews.org]. That should clarify some. The definition comes from a Monty Python skit though and I've never understood it to be necessarily commercial.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday September 03 2020, @09:34PM (8 children)

        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday September 03 2020, @09:34PM (#1046076) Journal
        Political spam is an example of non-commercial spam. Get ready for a boatload in the next couple of months.
        --
        SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 03 2020, @09:45PM (4 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@soylentnews.org> on Thursday September 03 2020, @09:45PM (#1046080) Homepage Journal

          Eh, I really can't tell the difference between politics and goatse most days.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @01:08AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @01:08AM (#1046142)

            One is horrific and the other, uh, nevermind.

          • (Score: 3, Touché) by barbara hudson on Friday September 04 2020, @03:04AM (1 child)

            by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday September 04 2020, @03:04AM (#1046182) Journal

            With goatse, there's only one giver and one receiver. :-)

            And participation is by mutual agreement (I hope).

            --
            SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 05 2020, @07:54AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 05 2020, @07:54AM (#1046705)

              ...what?

              I'm not sure you've ever truly played goatse, in-person live nor 'hot potato' online...

          • (Score: 3, Touché) by DavePolaschek on Friday September 04 2020, @12:59PM

            by DavePolaschek (6129) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 04 2020, @12:59PM (#1046293) Homepage Journal

            It’s all a matter of what’s inside the ring.

        • (Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @11:43PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @11:43PM (#1046121)

          How is politics non-commercial when there's so much money involved?

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by PiMuNu on Friday September 04 2020, @09:21AM (2 children)

        by PiMuNu (3823) on Friday September 04 2020, @09:21AM (#1046255)

        > the folks using any other downmod on obvious Spam

        As a noobtard... the spam was trollish and flamey so I clicked the first mod that got rid of it from my screen. I didn't realise there was a technical difference. Sorry bout that.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Osamabobama on Friday September 04 2020, @08:00PM (1 child)

          by Osamabobama (5842) on Friday September 04 2020, @08:00PM (#1046494)

          Also, according to the linked definition of spam, if you incorrectly apply it, you will suffer mild personal consequences. In contrast, troll mods can be given out without consequences.

          --
          Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday September 05 2020, @03:34PM

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@soylentnews.org> on Saturday September 05 2020, @03:34PM (#1046787) Homepage Journal

            If there is a reasonable argument to be made for something being modded Spam, no mod ban is ever issued. We only issue them when it's very clearly, intentionally used inappropriately. Except to me. I take my lumps even if I think I had a very strong case for something deserving the mod.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @09:16PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 03 2020, @09:16PM (#1046069)

    I love it when three lines of code make a huge difference. Elegant solutions. Fun when they happen and I've been luck to notch up a few such moments over the years. "Good job!" to the anon noob guy and for TMB for making it live.

  • (Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Thursday September 03 2020, @10:17PM

    by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Thursday September 03 2020, @10:17PM (#1046089)

    Thank you masked TMB!!

    --
    "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
  • (Score: 2) by everdred on Thursday September 03 2020, @10:39PM (3 children)

    by everdred (110) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 03 2020, @10:39PM (#1046093) Homepage Journal
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @01:51AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @01:51AM (#1046160)

      Funny.

      It was funny when it came out and is still worth watching now.

  • (Score: 5, Funny) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday September 03 2020, @11:39PM

    by PartTimeZombie (4827) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 03 2020, @11:39PM (#1046118)

    Pretty sure I saw them play a gig in the early 90's.

  • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Friday September 04 2020, @02:00AM (1 child)

    by acid andy (1683) on Friday September 04 2020, @02:00AM (#1046163) Homepage Journal

    Thanks TMB. And thank you Soylentils because this story has some of the funniest comments in a long while (well, except for fakefuck's of course ;) ).

    --
    Where did that thought come from? And that one? What about this one? Woah, man...
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday September 04 2020, @02:18AM (54 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday September 04 2020, @02:18AM (#1046169) Journal

    ...there *are* limits to free speech. And they can be imposed from above by the ruling party, a sort of "governing body" if you will. And while this is more restrictions up-front than "say whatever wherever whenever," it actually improves quality of life and freedom and the free flow of information, even though that *seems* counterintuitive. Hm. Hmm. Interesting.

    You're so close to getting it.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 04 2020, @03:47AM (37 children)

      You don't, of course. Signal and noise. Posting something to a physical bulletin board: signal. Throwing a bucket of paint on it or posting tons of copies of the same thing that cover up other conversation: noise.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @04:45AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @04:45AM (#1046209)

        Nice and simple! That's the guy I want running the country.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @10:21AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @10:21AM (#1046273)

          Unfortunately, I betcha TMB would not touch that job with a ten foot pole.

          Seems I always seem to have to choose between D and R, neither of which much appeal to me.

          But as long as they are bickering, neither gets anything done. And that's usually a good thing.

      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday September 04 2020, @02:32PM (33 children)

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday September 04 2020, @02:32PM (#1046319) Journal

        Butbutbutbut MUH FREEZE PEACH!

        Please, you're a goddamn hypocrite. You're always about the fewest restrictions up front and your whole worldview is "fuck you I won't do what you tell me." Idiot rebel without a clue. Welcome to the tragedy of the commons; some 2000+ years of history, philosophy, and logic lay before you.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by RandomFactor on Friday September 04 2020, @03:22PM (24 children)

          by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 04 2020, @03:22PM (#1046341) Journal

          Tragedy of the commons implies that a commonly used resource is not maintained by the beneficiaries.
           
          It is closer to the opposite of what is happening here - enabling and enhancing maintenance (moderation) by the beneficiaries of the commons (in this case the forums). Additionally this is not a neglect but rather a bad actor situation.
          If noone bothered to moderate at all, then Tragedy of the Commons would be applicable, but lack of moderation isn't really the problem here.
           
          MOB RULE and TYRANNY OF THE MAJORITY, which fall out of unregulated democracy, are concepts that apply to inappropriate mass moderation and are actually a larger concern on SN considering the high amounts of viewpoint based moderation that occur.

          --
          В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
          • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @03:47PM (23 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @03:47PM (#1046356)

            I agree that the use of moderation as an agree/disagree vote is a problem and requires limits on mod points. I understand this is a major reason why admins won't police moderation. But spam mods are already carved out as an exception and editors do review those. So if the editors can agree to review these cases that aren't supposed to be controversial, it raises the question of why the editors couldn't just use unlimited mod points on those posts to begin with. It wasn't an issue on Slashdot when editors used hundreds of mod points to suppress GNAA crapfloods. As long as there's transparency and it isn't used in situations where there's any gray area at all, I don't see why it's a problem. Somehow I doubt anyone would complain if some editor marked all of the identical APK posts as spam. The logic from the SN admins is contradictory on this matter.

            If people are misusing moderation to vote on whether they agree or disagree with comments, perhaps the power given to each user should be reduced. Perhaps go back to the Slashdot approach of giving out five mod points to accounts in good standing on a random basis instead of daily, limiting the amount of damage any particular user can inflict. Then give the editors unlimited spam mods for use on crapfloods. Perhaps the editors could agree to only use unlimited spam mods in situations where posts are being repeated. An isolated goatse ASCII art post might be left to the community whereas APK's repeated garbage would be addressed by the editors. Again, this really wouldn't be controversial.

            • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Friday September 04 2020, @05:39PM

              by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 04 2020, @05:39PM (#1046414) Journal

              While I haven't been on /. in ages, the plumbing there was a bit more tricked out.
               
              The primary method employed to address the overuse of agree/disagree type moderation (or other invalid moderation activity) was Meta-moderation (the community moderating moderations.)
              Meta Moderations then had the potential to reduce/increase the frequency with which an account was awarded mod points.
               
              I actually liked that approach, except the interface never gave enough information and I quite often had to go look at the original thread to get enough context to make any kind of reasonable call.
               
              I don't know that this would work on SN however. With SN's smaller user base, opinion-based meta-moderation and mod point restrictions would almost certainly result in accounts with views outside the largest bubble being provided less opportunities to moderate and effectively becoming more heavily marginalized than currently.
               
              As a side note- I floated the idea of giving editors and such a kind of super-spam mod option over on IRC the other day, and was informed everybody had the exact same capability and it didn't sound like there was any philosophical wiggle room on that. Gotta take the bad with the good I guess :-)

              --
              В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
            • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by aristarchus on Saturday September 05 2020, @01:19AM (21 children)

              by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday September 05 2020, @01:19AM (#1046633) Journal

              I agree that the use of moderation as an agree/disagree vote is a problem and requires limits on mod points.

              No, it isn't, and, no it doesn't! You are a RWNJ snowflack who needs to be modded into oblivion. You should be modded so far down that further downmods actually raise your karma! Your sensitive feelings are getting in the way of rational debate here on the SN, so take offence and off with you. We do not downmod because we disagree, we disagree because we downmod. When your post is so stupid and provocative that it only serves to derail a serious discussion, we downmod you, and that means we disagree with you, we disagree with your attempted disruption of SoylentNews, and, you pathetic excuse for an AC, we disagree with your whining about being downmodded. Now bugger off! Bloody Vikings!!

              --
              Die Republikkkanische Partei isst die weissvolken partei.
              • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Saturday September 05 2020, @01:58AM (20 children)

                by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 05 2020, @01:58AM (#1046646) Journal

                TBH AC put words in my mouth with that line :-)
                 
                I'm not really sure why discussing moderation methodologies and approaches to see if any useful conclusion can be reached to address the semordnilap KiloPascal without impacting other conversation and activities is enough to flag someone as an RWNJ.

                --
                В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
                • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday September 05 2020, @02:11AM (10 children)

                  by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday September 05 2020, @02:11AM (#1046649) Journal

                  Well, Mandrake, you never see a commie whine about down-mods, do ya! That means they are after my precious bodily upmods, so I will deny them my essence. Every complaint I have seen about this has been by a RWNJ, usually with a massive, and probably deserved, persecution complex. But again, they are not smart enough to see what is going on, and how they are perceived by others. It is like conservatives complaining that there are not more of them on College Faculties, when the real reason is that conservatives usually are either too stupid, or too lazy, or too cheap, to complete advanced academic degrees. True during the School of Alexandria, true in at the University of Bologna in the middle ages, true everywhere except at American Business schools.

                  Mod points are used by Soylentils for what ever purpose the Soylentil desires. I have seen particle beams off the shoulders of Orion, and bad comments modded funny, funny comments modded as -1 Redundant. Journal authors modded off topic in their own journals, khallow modded +1 Insightful, just to mess with his head. TMB has been spam-modded, as have I. And I have seen -1 Troll used on trolls that did not realize they were trolls. So even discussing moderation on SN is itself a trollish action, a ruse de guerre, a ploy, a device, a strategem, if you will. That is why the semordinlap of KiloPascal resides where it does.

                  --
                  Die Republikkkanische Partei isst die weissvolken partei.
                  • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Saturday September 05 2020, @03:00AM (3 children)

                    by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 05 2020, @03:00AM (#1046656) Journal

                    you never see a commie whine about down-mods, do ya!

                    *cough* s/down-mods/rejections/ *cough*
                     
                    But more seriously, Why would they? The general user population of SN is well left of center with a healthy far-left population. The middling right of center contingent tossing downmods isn't going to be enough to bother them much.
                     
                    As I pointed out above, the approach AC proposed would increase marginalization of smaller groups in the SN environment, meaning it would make actual RWNJ's get less traction. So it doesn't make sense that an RWNJ would propose it (if they evaluated the likely outcome.)
                     
                    All IMO of course.

                    --
                    В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
                    • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday September 05 2020, @04:05AM (2 children)

                      by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday September 05 2020, @04:05AM (#1046673) Journal

                      The Obvious khallow is, we used to have more limited mods, five per user per day. And we changed to 10 because, better? I don't think going back would solve the whining AC's problems, unless they are trying Make SoylentNews Great Again!! (MSNGA? Not quite the right ring to it!)

                      --
                      Die Republikkkanische Partei isst die weissvolken partei.
                      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 05 2020, @08:30AM (1 child)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 05 2020, @08:30AM (#1046711)

                        To be clear, the change from five to ten mod points was to provide users greater ability to mod down shitposting [soylentnews.org]. I'm proposing that editors use unlimited spam mod points to eliminate the worst of the repetitive spam. If editors are modding the worst of the garbage like APK spam, that might obviate the need for the extra five mod points. And I admittedly have a bit of nostalgia which makes me want to retain as much of the old Slashdot feel as possible.

                        • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Saturday September 05 2020, @03:06PM

                          by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 05 2020, @03:06PM (#1046774) Journal

                          Heh, it didn't work on me.
                           
                          I run out of up-mods often enough, but I haven't dropped a downmod in something like two years at this point, not even for emordnilap KiloPascal. (Yes, yes, dowmods exist for a reason, i get it, but if my daughter can flip a switch and be vegan i can flip one and not downmod. Downmod if you disagree!)

                          --
                          В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
                  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 05 2020, @08:26AM (5 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 05 2020, @08:26AM (#1046709)

                    I'm the AC you've been commenting about. Interestingly enough, I am a university faculty member.

                    The university had an issue with TPUSA in the not too distant past. TPUSA maintains a professor watchlist [professorwatchlist.org] that's supposed to expose faculty pushing left wing political agendas in the classroom. In fairness, academic freedom [insidehighered.com] does not mean that faculty can impose their political views on students. I suppose the first question, though, is why TPUSA only objects to faculty pushing left wing views in the classroom. Does that mean they would be okay with faculty pushing right wing views on students? But you're right, there just aren't many right wingers who are university faculty members. The bigger issue is why a group that says they promote free speech is maintaining a watchlist. That has a chilling effect on free speech.

                    Many faculty members on the watchlist are there because of op-eds or guest appearances on TV as commentators, things that have nothing to do with classrooms. Others are there because they did things like assigning students to write about or in support of positions they disagree with. Of course, requiring students to examine and write essays in support of positions they disagree with is actually a really good critical thinking exercise. The "carefully maintained" watchlist is pretty much bullshit. In the case of my university, the administration cowered to right wingers in the legislature. Faced with the prospect of retaliatory funding cuts, the administration was all too happy to skip over the due process rights in academic freedom and impose sanctions against faculty members. We caved to TPUSA, which is highly unfortunate. I'd provide more specific details but I don't care to make myself a target of TPUSA. I will say a nearby university adopted social media policies [npr.org] that violate academic freedom [ericgoldman.org] because some snowflakes were triggered by a faculty member saying mean things about the NRA.

                    As for moderation, I suppose I just spent too much time on Slashdot, where M2 is supposed to remove bad moderators and there's a considerably smaller amount of mod points in circulation. I could also do without triggered right wing snowflakes occasionally modding my comments to -1 before others have a chance to mod them up. And yes, I only post AC.

                    • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday September 05 2020, @08:39AM

                      by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday September 05 2020, @08:39AM (#1046713) Journal

                      My apologies if I misread your intentions, Herr Facultater! TP-USA is really a problem, seeing how they are lead by a community college dropout. (He just recently lost his sugardaddy, so the whole operation may fold soon). But as is often pointed out here, moderation is not censorship. It seems to hit some posters rather personally, I won't mention any names, but exaeta and hemo are extremely sensitive about getting down-modded. But really it means almost nothing, unless you get spam modded. And, as a perennial AC, you do not have to worry about your username karma, so only the cumulative super-secret karma can get you down. As for your posts, don't whine. It attracts sharks.

                      --
                      Die Republikkkanische Partei isst die weissvolken partei.
                    • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Saturday September 05 2020, @05:42PM (2 children)

                      by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 05 2020, @05:42PM (#1046856) Journal

                      The university had an issue with TPUSA in the not too distant past. TPUSA maintains a professor watchlist [professorwatchlist.org] that's supposed to expose faculty pushing left wing political agendas in the classroom. In fairness, academic freedom [insidehighered.com] does not mean that faculty can impose their political views on students.

                      That's the rub. This is where academia is seen by many to have failed to serve well for generations, and for good or ill, why things like TPUSA now exist. I personally remember a psychology prof telling his class (attempting to quote by memory from 40 odd years ago..) "if you look at every bad thing the government has ever done, it was done by republicans", and don't even get me started on my macro-economics prof. :-)
                       
                      Academic freedom [natlawreview.com] requires balancing the rights of the university, the professors, and the students themselves. I don't know the perfect answer any more than anyone else, but I suspect like a lot of things it involves more sunlight to make reality match philosophy. Sunlight invariably is disliked for various reasons - Some are just used to the dark, some are doing things they shouldn't under its cover, and some are opposed for perfectly valid privacy/surveillance state concerns. That last is weakened by being invoked to protect instruction [themix.net] that parents feel is inappropriate in school. Sticky wicket and I'm mixing higher ed with K-12 anyway.

                      I suppose the first question, though, is why TPUSA only objects to faculty pushing left wing views in the classroom. Does that mean they would be okay with faculty pushing right wing views on students? But you're right, there just aren't many right wingers who are university faculty members. The bigger issue is why a group that says they promote free speech is maintaining a watchlist. That has a chilling effect on free speech.

                      Ok, also for free-speech concerns :-p
                       
                      I'm no expert on TPUSA, but it has an explicit viewpoint. Why would they track those that agree with it? From their mission statement page:

                      "Turning Point USA’s mission is to educate students about the importance of fiscal responsibility, free markets, and limited government. TPUSA activists are the community organizers of the right."

                      If there is an expectation for TPUSA to call out the small population (possibly hidden in business schools) that are actually aligned with their views I didn't see it in my quick perusal. That expectation may need adjustment?

                      As for moderation, I suppose I just spent too much time on Slashdot, where M2 is supposed to remove bad moderators and there's a considerably smaller amount of mod points in circulation.

                      Fair enough, I just don't think SN has the user population to make it work and that it would lead to issues that /. was able to avoid through sheer size of its user population smoothing things out.

                      I could also do without triggered right wing snowflakes occasionally modding my comments to -1 before others have a chance to mod them up. And yes, I only post AC.

                      A lot of folks read at -1 just because of this (I do). Reasoned/valid comments at -1 that don't belong there vex me and I'll drop an upmod on them that I might not have otherwise for that reason alone. As is so often the case - that's not a right or left wing snowflake specific issue.
                       
                      I also think we have categorically rebuked that you are a RWNJ.

                      --
                      В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 07 2020, @03:18AM (1 child)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 07 2020, @03:18AM (#1047405)

                        I personally remember a psychology prof telling his class (attempting to quote by memory from 40 odd years ago..) "if you look at every bad thing the government has ever done, it was done by republicans"

                        You object to professors relaying truth in their classrooms? Oh, you were one of Those students! Smarter than your profs! OK, Welcome to the desert of the real.

                        • (Score: 1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 07 2020, @12:34PM

                          Well, it's astoundingly untrue and verifiably so, so your objection is not really relevant. The Dems were the worst enemies minorities had historically. Pro-slavery, pro-Jim-Crow, anti-civil-rights bills, yadda yadda yadda. Some idiots think that changed around the late 60s but it didn't; they only switched whose votes they were trading manufactured racial hatred for.

                          --
                          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                    • (Score: 4, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday September 06 2020, @05:12PM

                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday September 06 2020, @05:12PM (#1047221) Journal

                      It's kind of a self-selection thing. The RWNJs aren't much for higher education (or ANY education at all), did you notice? All they want to do is destroy it, because it doesn't fit in their worldview...and they're trying to turn the ideas of openmindedness, considering all viewpoints, and fairness/equal exposure into a weapon to eradicate the very people and ideas that depend on them!

                      It's fucking disgusting is what it is. I don't have the words or the bile to express what kind of rancid brass-bollocked sociopathic gaslighting horseshit it is, and if anything, the underlying idea behind it--"destroy those weak fools with their own soft, stupid ideas about fairness and justice, they deserve it for being weak!"--is what pisses me off the most. Fuck those people and fuck their sociopathic bullshit.

                      --
                      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 05 2020, @07:20AM (8 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 05 2020, @07:20AM (#1046701)

                  I had no intention of putting words in your mouth. I interpreted "viewpoint based moderation" to mean that people are modding based on whether they agree or disagree with something rather than the quality of the comment. When it comes to political articles, that can be a real issue. Let me just say I apologize because you intended something different, but that my interpretation was made in good faith.

                  As for ari's objection, reducing the amount of mod points assigned to users should affect right wing and left wing posters evenly. It doesn't quite follow logically how it should target one side versus the other. I have no interest in suppressing his participation on this site. I'll go so far to say that I think his submissions are often rejected on the basis of the user submitting them rather than the actual quality of the content. I think some of his QAnon submissions deserved to be posted and were useful. I'm sure an extra story could be fit in from time to time to accommodate worthwhile content. I will happily admit that I'm the AC who posted this comment [soylentnews.org] a couple of months ago. I said many of the things ari did in his journal entry. I will leave it as an exercise for the readers to determine if that comment is the work of an RWNJ.

                  I'll even make another editorial suggestion beyond what I've already posted here. I've seen a number of articles submitted that are based on content from sites like Zero Hedge, which are not exactly known for the reliability of their content. I'll bet this idea could eventually be automated to a large degree, but I'd like to see when possible that links to articles in stories also include links to fact checking sites [mediabiasfactcheck.com] that provide a more direct way to evaluate the quality of sources. Not every source will be on there but I think it's worthwhile to provide some guidance for the readers about the quality of sources when possible. I'd support a policy of rejecting stories with sources that don't meet certain objective minimum requirements for source quality. For example, I'd propose that unless Zero Hedge is linked to for the purpose of providing an example of fake news, stories that rely on it be automatically rejected because it's classified as a conspiracy-pseudoscience site [mediabiasfactcheck.com]. Again, I'll leave it as an exercise for the readers to determine if that's something an RWNJ would propose.

                  I think you and ari are good posters so I'll apologize for misinterpreting your comment and leave these ideas here in good faith.

                  • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Saturday September 05 2020, @08:06PM

                    by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 05 2020, @08:06PM (#1046947) Journal

                    I had no intention of putting words in your mouth. I interpreted "viewpoint based moderation" to mean that people are modding based on whether they agree or disagree with something rather than the quality of the comment. When it comes to political articles, that can be a real issue. Let me just say I apologize because you intended something different, but that my interpretation was made in good faith.

                    No you got that bit completely correct ;-) It was the bit agreeing with me on restricting mod points. I puzzled for a second when I saw that, but just figured it was a minor misread or I said something poorly (common if I revise my thoughts mid compose), it wasn't significant to the conversation anyway and so I didn't give it another thought until Ari quoted and went after it. I didn't take it in any negative way whatsoever and did not mean to imply any intent.

                    As for ari's objection, reducing the amount of mod points assigned to users should affect right wing and left wing posters evenly. It doesn't quite follow logically how it should target one side versus the other.

                    /Nod.
                    I didn't address that either way - my thinking was that the suppressive functionality of metamod would amplify majority views over minority ones in a small population.

                    I'll go so far to say that I think his submissions are often rejected on the basis of the user submitting them rather than the actual quality of the content.

                    I suspect there is some truth to that, but more in that they have developed expectations rather than it being some intentional slight.
                     
                    If there is a sub from Ari you can expect it to have certain recurring characteristics that make it unsuitable or at least that would cause it to require a significant amount of effort to make an acceptable article. Contrariwise the eds may be so sensitized to him doing the squeaky wheel thing that they give his posts more consideration than they are due trying to avoid it.
                     
                    I've come to the conclusion that a lot of subs by Ari (and several other political article submitters) aren't really expected to reach the front page, they're just some sort of stick it in the queue in hopes of increasing visibility type of statement.
                     
                    (DISCLAIMER - I'm not an editor and I don't play one on TV, but I write-up and submit when I can)
                    IMO it isn't particularly difficult to figure out what has a good chance of being accepted and what doesn't. To wit:
                     
                      - The editors are overworked volunteers. If they can read a topical sub over once and check the links and post it as is, that's gold. The less revision, the better the odds.
                     
                    So what is needed to get something posted as is/with minimal revision? There is a write up [soylentnews.org] about this, but these are some points folks miss (or just bear repeating):
                     
                      - This isn't a political site.
                          You can get a political article in now and then, particularly if it has a geek angle, but it's much harder.
                          I once read an IRC by one editor that they try to limit political articles to ~1/day. (Limited slots, lots of competition, stick with the nerd stuff!)
                     
                      - Try to avoid Fox News, Breitbart and other source sites that are controversial to a center-left audience just because of the source (not the content) of the article.
                     
                      - If the write up is slanted - the editors have to rewrite it. The longer it takes to whip a sub into shape, the worse the odds it will happen. Steal the NPOV concept from Wikipedia for write ups.
                     
                      - A fully written up sub will have the best odds, and even better when the accepted articles queue is nearly empty, or eds are trying to get articles queued up so they can enjoy the weekend, or some editors are down (sick, vacation, rocking back and forth in their safe space, whatever)

                    --
                    В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
                  • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday September 06 2020, @02:58PM (6 children)

                    by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 06 2020, @02:58PM (#1047176) Journal

                    I'll go so far to say that I think his [Ari's] submissions are often rejected on the basis of the user submitting them rather than the actual quality of the content.

                    The emphasis on this site is STEM, however we do cover other stories when they have a general interest to the majority of our community. Occasional political stories that are based on fact and not simply an expression of an individual's personal views are published when we receive submissions that are suitable. Aristarchus' submission are often his own political views - accompanied by selected quotations that support his personal views - and after we have discussed them a few times there is nothing new in them. As Ari himself well knows, when he provides submissions that are factual, original and of general interest then we do publish them.

                    We recognise that some people might want to discuss such topics even though they are outside our usual interests and we have provided a journal so that those in the community who wish to discuss such topics can do so. If you do not look further than the front page then you might be missing much of what this site has to offer. As it is, currently too many of the stories that do get published end up twisting the topic into yet another political debate. Everyone is entitled to their own political view but they should be discussed in those stories that are in the Political nexus or in journals - not in every story that gets published.

                    --
                    It's always my fault...
                    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday September 06 2020, @05:15PM (1 child)

                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday September 06 2020, @05:15PM (#1047222) Journal

                      Keep that in mind when dealing with the Three-Gorges-Dam-size crapflood Runaway ("notherguy") inflicts on the subs queue.

                      He thinks you're stupid, you see. He'll drop in a fairly STEM-looking, neutral-ish article about mountain lions or the Indus River Valley people here and there, but embed that in literally dozens of alt-right disinfo screeds disguised as articles. Don't fall for the bait. He's replaced Ari as chief shitposter and unlike Ari he has a dangerous, destructive agenda. That, and he's not funny either 9_9

                      --
                      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                      • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday September 07 2020, @07:08AM

                        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 07 2020, @07:08AM (#1047476) Journal

                        crapflood Runaway ("notherguy") inflicts on the subs queue.

                        We cannot stop people from submitting whatever they want. However, as you well know, if there isn't a connection to our main areas of interest and there is no overriding reason for accepting a particular story they either get edited severely or rejected outright. By all means criticise us for our choice of stories that are published, but not for the content of submissions.

                        Whatever makes you think that we don't see political bias in stories? We do. It is a main reason that many stories are edited. But politics does impinge on many aspects of the world around us, for better or for worse. If the political information is relevant then it might well be justified in being quoted in the story. For example, new military weapons or increased arsenals of nuclear warheads are certainly topics with a technical interest - but it is politicians who decide which weapons are funded and how many nuclear warheads a country might think it needs.

                        --
                        It's always my fault...
                    • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday September 07 2020, @03:28AM (3 children)

                      by aristarchus (2645) on Monday September 07 2020, @03:28AM (#1047408) Journal

                      Aristarchus' submission are often his own political views - accompanied by selected quotations that support his personal views - and after we have discussed them a few times there is nothing new in them. As Ari himself well knows, when he provides submissions that are factual, original and of general interest then we do publish them.

                      Pure poopycock, this is! Not personal views, objective facts and news that are outside the SN bubble, and that paint TMB with a broad brush! No aristarchus submission has been accepted in recent memory, except from the imposter on IRC! STEM is a false front for creeping fascism, a Peter Thiel type delusion that has ruined American Democracy. And the chaos and carnage are coming to roost on ex-pat English speakers all across the world.

                      But we already knew that janrinok was beyond the Pale, along with several other editors. Right, chromas?

                      --
                      Die Republikkkanische Partei isst die weissvolken partei.
                      • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday September 07 2020, @06:57AM (2 children)

                        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 07 2020, @06:57AM (#1047474) Journal

                        objective facts and news that are outside the SN bubble

                        Er, shouldn't that have said 'outside the SN area of interest'? - which is another reason that they get rejected.

                        As you have been advised many, many times - PUT THEM IN YOUR JOURNAL, please.

                        Finally, you seem to be under the misapprehension that if you submit more rubbish we are duty bound to eventually publish one of them. This is untrue. You know the standard required to be published and, as RandomFactor clearly explained in an earlier comment, if you want to be published then quote the article, leave out your personal feelings (they belong in the comments), edit the submission in accordance with our guidelines, and make life as easy as possible for the person who has to process the submission.

                        --
                        It's always my fault...
                        • (Score: 3, Touché) by aristarchus on Monday September 07 2020, @08:37AM (1 child)

                          by aristarchus (2645) on Monday September 07 2020, @08:37AM (#1047494) Journal

                          Finally, you seem to be under the misapprehension that if you submit more rubbish we are duty bound to eventually publish one of them.

                          I have no such misapprehension! Perhaps you have me confused with some nutherguy?

                          --
                          Die Republikkkanische Partei isst die weissvolken partei.
                          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday September 08 2020, @05:56PM

                            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday September 08 2020, @05:56PM (#1047912) Journal

                            ...I regret that I have but one +1 Touche mod to give for this post. Fucking *ouch.*

                            --
                            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday September 05 2020, @03:38PM (7 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@soylentnews.org> on Saturday September 05 2020, @03:38PM (#1046791) Homepage Journal

          Blah blah blah. Come up with an argument that doesn't necessitate categorizing someone blowing an air horn in your ear as "speech". Currently you just sound like a clueless idiot or someone who's just arguing to argue.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Saturday September 05 2020, @08:47PM (3 children)

            by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 05 2020, @08:47PM (#1046964) Journal

            categorizing someone blowing an air horn in your ear as "speech".

            Ignoring that you're probably speaking metaphorically :-p
             
            Blowing an airhorn or using a megaphone in someone's ear is done with the full expectation and intent of causing permanent serious physical damage. Just like lasering them in the eyes is.
             
            Because of its common use as weapon it should begin being treated as one under law, sadly the courts haven't fully caught up with this application of the devices.

            --
            В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
          • (Score: 1, Troll) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday September 06 2020, @05:17PM (2 children)

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday September 06 2020, @05:17PM (#1047223) Journal

            How is that blowing an air horn in someone's ear? Is your problem just that he's found an innovative way to have MOAR FREEZE PEACH than the rest of us? :D

            Sounds like you're just mad he's a rugged, self-reliant individualist in the mold of John Galt and you didn't think of it first. But, oh well, if you're lazy you deserve not to have power and influence. Maybe if you weren't lazy...

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 07 2020, @12:37PM (1 child)

              Bitch, please. That's not even a Twitter-standard troll. Do better.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 1, Troll) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday September 08 2020, @05:53PM

                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday September 08 2020, @05:53PM (#1047910) Journal

                When you prove yourself worthy of better, you will get better. Until then, all you get is low-effort fire-and-forget. Nothing more is needed to deal with you until you up your game, and I think we both know that's neeeeever gonna happen :) You're all tapped out.

                --
                I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @03:31PM (15 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @03:31PM (#1046346)

      The logic here doesn't make sense.

      I don't agree with barbara hudson about banning AC posting. I work in the public sector and frequently criticize my employer's COVID-19 decisions and their management on other matters. If I had to create an account, I'd probably be less willing to post here. That said, SN needs to be transparent about what information is tracked and just how long hashed IPIDs are kept around. The IPv4 address space is small enough that it's not that hard to brute force who posted what comments. AC is better than pseudonymity but I'm starting to distrust just how much I can trust AC posts will be kept anonymous.

      That said, Slashdot handled the GNAA crapfloods very differently. TMB noted that a vast number of mod points are assigned each day. But only a small portion of those accounts are actually moderating. If editors like him are trusted to review spam mods and be the ultimate arbiter of whether the mods are applied correctly, there's no reason why those editors can't just mark all the spam comments as spam. Slashdot editors were criticized for not being transparent about the use of unlimited mod points, but the actual use of those mod points on GNAA crapfloods was not particularly controversial.

      I fail to see why it would be a problem for the editors to use unlimited mod points to assign spam mods, but otherwise have the same limits on moderation as other users. That means they wouldn't have unlimited troll or flamebait mods but would have unlimited spam mods and could clean up the messes. One argument I've seen for not policing moderation is the editors couldn't agree among themselves about which comments are good and which aren't. That shouldn't be an issue for removing spam. After all, the spam mods are supposed to be used only in situations where it isn't controversial and the comments clearly and obviously have no value. If the editors trust themselves to agree on reviewing spam mods, then the editors should be able to trust themselves to agree on handing out those mods to begin with. Using unlimited spam mods during crapfloods would be useful and shouldn't be controversial. I don't understand why this option isn't on the table.

      It's not hard to find ways around the lameness filters so this would be a very useful line of defense rather than saying it's the community's job. Perhaps the community should go on strike, so to speak, and just let the spam stay sometime. I respect the editors and even subscribe but it doesn't mean I have to agree with every decision.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @05:57PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @05:57PM (#1046424)

        That said, SN needs to be transparent about what information is tracked and just how long hashed IPIDs are kept around.

        https://soylentnews.org/faq.pl#aacpaa [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @07:15PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @07:15PM (#1046459)

          If that hash is deleted after about two weeks, I feel better about actually being anonymous. I remember CmdrTaco justifying AC posts on Slashdot saying that it's sometimes necessary to be able to say things anonymously, even if it allows trolls to abuse the feature.

          Where I work, I get the feeling a lot of faculty are frustrated with how the administration is handling the COVID-19 situation. As someone who is junior/temporary faculty, I'm reluctant to speak up too much because, despite being protected by the first amendment, it's still possible for people to make my life difficult. I'm pretty sure I'm far from the only person who feels this way. It's not quite as severe as the University of Alabama saying they would punish faculty who told students about COVID-19 cases in their classes, but I still feel pressure to not speak up too much. We haven't been threatened to not tell students about positive tests but the administration has a policy of not telling faculty if anyone in their class tests positive, provided that masks were worn and seats were spaced six feet apart in the classroom. It's frustrating and I think people deserve to know what's going on -- there's not anywhere close to enough transparency from the administration. So there's definitely value for me to being able to vent about it as an AC here.

      • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Friday September 04 2020, @06:02PM (6 children)

        by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 04 2020, @06:02PM (#1046425) Journal

        to be used only in situations where it isn't controversial and the comments clearly and obviously have no value.

        "Donald Trump is GREAT! Possibly the best president ever!" is not controversial to something like 200 Million people in the USA.
         
        100 Million agree strongly with it.
        100 Million consider the statement vicious, inciteful, and clearly and obviously without value.
        100 million just want the 200 million above to STFU.
         
        There would need to be a check/balance to ensure the determinations made were more generally acceptable and not a reflection of personal animus.
        .
        .
        .

        (yes yes - all numbers vague and imprecise and obviously much more weighted towards the reader's particular view of reality, but the point remains)

        --
        В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @08:16PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 04 2020, @08:16PM (#1046513)

          My take on your example is that it's something that would be inflammatory. Unless the poster tried to support that statement, it's obviously flamebait or trolling. But if it's on-topic and relevant in any way to the thread or the article, it's not spam. However inane, it's plausible that people could reply and eventually produce a useful discussion, even if the initial post is a low effort troll. I think the difference is that APK's repeated posts are, well, repeated and are also extremely unlikely to produce a useful on-topic discussion. If APK posted his drivel in a thread where he had previously been having a heated argument with Azuma Hazuki and posted it just once, the post would be flamebait and batshit crazy but not spam. But when he's starting thread after thread with that, it really isn't controversial at all to call it spam. Perhaps editors should only use unlimited spam mods for repetitive posts, because that really is unambiguous -- and that's the one place where unlimited mod points would be useful.

        • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday September 06 2020, @03:08PM (4 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 06 2020, @03:08PM (#1047177) Journal

          And you need to bear in mind that this ISN'T an American site. It is manned by volunteers from around the world. The common link is that it is an English language site. Many of us don't give a damn what Trump says or doesn't say but we still have several months of US 'politics' being discussed daily.

          It is currently hosted in the USA because that allows us to register it as a specific type of site and gives us several protections that aren't available in every other country. But make no mistake, the servers could be located anywhere if there was a good enough reason to justify it. Currently there isn't.

          --
          It's always my fault...
          • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Sunday September 06 2020, @04:22PM (3 children)

            by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 06 2020, @04:22PM (#1047202) Journal

            So if the line of excessive annoyance is crossed (Fidonet reference if anyone cares), the red lights flash hot and the copper comes calling, the site sort of yawns and gets a new hoster? Or maybe even entire TLD?
             
            If so, I vote for: SoylentNews.ni (News that goes ni!)

            --
            В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
            • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday September 07 2020, @07:18AM (1 child)

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 07 2020, @07:18AM (#1047479) Journal

              Why change to TLD? .com, .org, .net etc are used all over the world. Theyt might be managed by the USA but they are not solely a US asset. I am a European and have 3 sites, all hosted outside the USA, and all with a TLD (.org/.net) without a national identifier.

              But if US law changes and demands, for example, a private feed of all the data we process or information on all of our subscribers we can move the site relatively easily to somewhere less restrictive.

              --
              It's always my fault...
              • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Monday September 07 2020, @02:16PM

                by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 07 2020, @02:16PM (#1047567) Journal

                Ni.

                --
                В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 07 2020, @12:39PM

              If we ever do change domains, I'm sold.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday September 05 2020, @04:13PM (5 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@soylentnews.org> on Saturday September 05 2020, @04:13PM (#1046808) Homepage Journal

        I fail to see why it would be a problem for the editors to use unlimited mod points to assign spam mods...

        Because we actively want as little beyond-user power as necessary to do our jobs. Power you don't have can't be abused. And while anyone with direct database access technically has all the power we could possibly want, we still like to make it as annoying as possible on ourselves to abuse that power.

        Also, there aren't a whole lot of us and we're entirely volunteer, so we don't hang out reading every comment or even every article all day long. It's much more effective to get everyone helping out.

        That said, SN needs to be transparent about what information is tracked and just how long hashed IPIDs are kept around.

        IP hashes are supposed to be kept for two weeks and then discarded. That said, it's possible it hangs around in the db in out of the way places that we haven't found yet for longer. We do want it gone if that's the case though and I will absolutely look next time I have the time to scour every table in the db.

        That and credit card transaction records (Not the name and number and such, that's handled by the processors and we never see it. We only get the neutered transaction info the processor sends us.) are the only remotely personal information we collect though, since we don't even require email addresses to be valid. Who (what user account) posted what is of course tracked in perpetuity or all comments/submissions would necessarily have to be AC but who has what user account is pretty much as anonymous as it's possible for us to make it.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 10 2020, @03:38PM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 10 2020, @03:38PM (#1049015)

          "...so we don't hang out reading every comment or even every article all day long."

          Abundantly available evidence plainly supports a contrary conclusion.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 11 2020, @02:50PM (3 children)

            You get that if your ass actually makes an account and logs in, you get these notifications when someone replies to you? Not instant, annoying notifications like you might on a cell phone but unobtrusive, patient notifications that will sit and wait until any time you happen to have a few minutes to sit on your ass and pwn noobs.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 11 2020, @10:04PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 11 2020, @10:04PM (#1049685)

              Q.E.D.

              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 14 2020, @11:52PM (1 child)

                Missing something very important there. You only get notifications when someone replies directly to you or on your journal. That's a long, long way from deciding to sit and watch every comment as it hits the DB.

                --
                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 14 2020, @11:59PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 14 2020, @11:59PM (#1051040)

                  obs=n++

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