from the Woo-Hoo! dept.
Happy New Year!
As the final hours of 2021 here's wishing everyone a Happy New Year!
In light of the holiday, I am inviting the editorial staff to post stories on a weekend/holiday schedule. Thank you for all your hard work in 2021. Here's wishing for a better year to come! Enjoy!
We did it! [*]
([*] I think).
Thanks to a VERY generous subscription of nearly $1,000, we reached our fundraising goal for the second half of the year THANK YOU!: $4,132.81 on a goal of $3,500.00 (all amounts are estimates):
mysql> SELECT SUM(payment_net) AS Net, 100.0 * SUM(payment_net) / 3500.00 AS GoalPercent, MAX(ts), MAX(spid), NOW() FROM subscribe_payments WHERE ts > '2021-06-30' ;
| Net | GoalPercent | MAX(ts) | MAX(spid) | NOW() |
| 4132.81 | 118.0802857 | 2021-12-30 17:36:36 | 1744 | 2021-12-30 23:45:49 |
1 row in set (0.00 sec)
And for those of you interested in the details:
mysql> SELECT spid, ts, payment_gross, payment_net, payment_type FROM subscribe_payments WHERE ts > '2021-12-29 22:06:03' AND payment_gross > 0 ORDER BY ts ;
| spid | ts | payment_gross | payment_net | payment_type |
| 1728 | 2021-12-29 23:16:21 | 20.00 | 18.81 | user |
| 1729 | 2021-12-30 00:15:05 | 100.00 | 96.80 | user |
| 1730 | 2021-12-30 01:08:02 | 20.00 | 19.12 | user |
| 1731 | 2021-12-30 01:13:58 | 30.00 | 28.01 | user |
| 1732 | 2021-12-30 01:45:50 | 50.00 | 48.25 | user |
| 1733 | 2021-12-30 02:35:54 | 40.00 | 38.54 | user |
| 1734 | 2021-12-30 03:12:48 | 20.00 | 18.81 | user |
| 1735 | 2021-12-30 04:24:07 | 924.43 | 897.32 | user |
| 1736 | 2021-12-30 07:05:37 | 20.00 | 18.51 | user |
| 1737 | 2021-12-30 07:50:05 | 20.00 | 18.51 | gift |
| 1738 | 2021-12-30 09:23:14 | 20.00 | 19.12 | gift |
| 1739 | 2021-12-30 12:22:42 | 20.00 | 18.51 | user |
| 1740 | 2021-12-30 12:24:24 | 20.00 | 18.81 | user |
| 1741 | 2021-12-30 13:59:52 | 40.00 | 38.11 | user |
| 1742 | 2021-12-30 17:33:36 | 20.00 | 19.12 | gift |
| 1743 | 2021-12-30 17:35:13 | 20.00 | 19.12 | gift |
| 1744 | 2021-12-30 17:36:36 | 20.00 | 19.12 | gift |
17 rows in set (0.00 sec)
That's great news! So why the equivocation?
Actually, it's more of a stepping back to look at things over the course of the entire year:
mysql> SELECT SUM(payment_gross) AS Gross, SUM(payment_net) AS Net, ts, max(spid) AS SPID FROM subscribe_payments WHERE ts > '2020-12-31' ;
| Gross | Net | ts | SPID |
| 6916.61 | 6611.75 | 2020-12-31 21:47:25 | 1744 |
1 row in set (0.00 sec)
The fundraising goal for the first half of the year was also $3,500.00. So... (2 x $3,500.00) is $7,000.00 but we have a total of... $6,916.61?
And then I remembered. Early this year we had a server (fluorine) crash. We had backups (yay!), but they were borken (Boo! Hiss!). We lost over a day's worth of activity, including a number of subscriptions. I *was* able to manually reconstruct people's subscriptions (time) based on information displayed on a window I just happened to have open at the time. But that was in a table separate from what is used to generate these numbers. After 3 days' effort, I'd patched things up as well as I could. Thankfully the official numbers (on which income and taxes are calculated) are kept on a completely separate server. Whew! One that I DO NOT have access. I'd concluded that we'll just have to sort things out at the end of the year. And that time has draw nigh.
We're probably all set for the year, but there is also the matter that (unknown to me) we had previously been running at a deficit for a couple years. So anything additional you can contribute will go to replenish our funding base. (NCommander and Matt_ each put up $5,000.00 of their own money that to get us started.)
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 31 2021, @01:23AM (4 children)
> $7,000.00 but we have a total of... $6,916.61
Release the logs! We want to know who is stealing our money??? (Well not mine, but...)
(Score: 3, Informative) by martyb on Friday December 31 2021, @01:56AM (3 children)
The logs are on a server where I do not have access, so I am unable to comply with your request. FWIW. I have met Matt_ and he's as fine a man as I have ever men in my entire life. We are incredibly fortunate to have him at the fiscal helm of our organization.
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 31 2021, @03:56AM
Come on, admit it, those logs are on Log4j, now completely borked forever (based on the amount of internet angst in the last few days).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 31 2021, @08:09AM (1 child)
Lock him up! Lock him up! Where are the hidden logs??
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 31 2021, @02:58PM
I think you've got them. Sit on a toilet to release...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 31 2021, @03:48AM
Now shove those chocolate eggs into your ass and fart
OH YEAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHH YEAH!
(Score: 5, Interesting) by The Vocal Minority on Friday December 31 2021, @03:54AM (1 child)
Thank you to everyone who contributed to keeping the site going, especially the ~$1000! Oh yeah, and Happy New Year for when that happens where you are.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Friday December 31 2021, @04:32AM
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 31 2021, @03:56AM
just remember, if you get drunk enough, no sausages in the back door.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 31 2021, @04:00AM (4 children)
The site stumbles along for another 6 months of newsbot main page and political shitshow journals.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Friday December 31 2021, @04:25AM (3 children)
Upstart and Arthur merely submit stories making the submission process easier. The community still have to select the stories that they want to see on the front page and start the submission process.
We prefer submissions that have been at least partially edited and submitted through the usual web page but we are grateful for any submissions.
The editors are not responsible for the content of journals. But if you do not like the journals then why are you still looking at them?
(Score: 2) by hubie on Friday December 31 2021, @11:50PM (2 children)
I'm rather impressed with the submissions they come up with. Has there ever been a description of how they work?
(Score: 5, Informative) by janrinok on Saturday January 01 2022, @05:23AM (1 child)
I wrote Arthur to scratch my own itch. It is written in Python 3 as a project to help learn this language.
The stories it collects are then stored on disk, sorted by publishing date and, optionally, by source too. On a typical weekday it parses around 200-400 stories. The 'problem' is that bots cannot tell a good story from a bad one and it still requires a person to select the stories that (s)he wishes to submit. If they are not selected by a real person then they go no further.
The submission process can use either the built-in SN API [soylentnews.org] software or a cut-and-paste to a normal submission page. An average of 50% or more of the stories that it finds each day are potentially acceptable and of interest to our site.
There are over 30 copies of Arthur now out there. I'm sure that they have been modified and new ways of using the program's output have been devised. I have just started updating it to version 6.
Upstart was written by chromas [soylentnews.org] and is an IRC bot which essentially does exactly the same task but in a very different way. I know very little about the internals of the project other than it is written in PHP.
(Score: 2) by hubie on Saturday January 01 2022, @06:02PM
Thank you, that is very interesting. I've been fascinated with automated text analysis since I saw the first email spam classifiers from the late 90s, since they seemed to work very well. The software libraries to do that sort of thing are very common now and I was curious whether these bots did any kind of analysis like that. Playing around with that kind of thing has always been on my hobby to-do list, but it never has climbed up high enough in priority for me to take a stab at it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 31 2021, @04:00AM
Glad SN reached its goal, and thanks for all the hard work all you guys do to keep this site alive. Thanks to all who subscribed and contributed.
A lot of us are still more or less locked down due to the pandemic, and having a site like this one is a small bit of relief from the monotony of it all.
Don't let reaching this milestone stop anyone from subscribing still if you have the wherewithal. Happy New Year all!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 31 2021, @06:01AM (87 children)
Having one user provide 25% of your funding can buy an awful lot of "good will." Let's hope things aren't too "greased" now and that there is still a fair shot for the rest of us. Too bad we will never know or be able to know. Let the finger pointing and paranoia commence!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Frigatebird on Friday December 31 2021, @06:21AM (85 children)
I, for one, thank NCommander for ridding us of the nasty Buzzard. But it appears that now we have no one who understands how the site works? This is not good, and is obviously how alt-right wacko-nut-jobs have managed to infiltrate the place. So many sock-puppets, how many not even janrinok knows, and no body knows where the money goes. Aren't Public Good Corps like the SN required to publish their books, publically? Or are we just waiting until the $Profit thingy kicks in?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 31 2021, @07:17AM
i don't care what alt-x they belong to so long as they can do their job and keep the site running so well done everyone
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 31 2021, @08:27AM
We need to get hosted on TRUMP Social. Hell, we're more than 75% there.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 31 2021, @09:52AM (30 children)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Friday December 31 2021, @01:36PM (29 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 31 2021, @09:44PM (28 children)
And yet a five-9s backend couldn't even do two. If my HA systems had anywhere near that low availability, I wouldn't even get two weeks before they shoved me out the door and blackballed me to anyone that would listen.
(Score: 2, Funny) by khallow on Saturday January 01 2022, @12:06AM (27 children)
I'm pretty sure the backend was never intended to be "five nines".
SoylentNews was never a high availability system.
Imagine the vast number of shitposts that were lost! TMB will never work in this industry again!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 01 2022, @12:54AM (26 children)
Wikipedia disagrees with you
Oracle does too [mysql.com]
And don't forget that slashdot engineered slash itself for high reliability and scalibility that routinely killed other websites. Or that this site is supposedly run in a DMR configuration. If they can't get high availability out of an HA database and an Apache DMR deployment, that problem is square on the administrators' shoulders.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 01 2022, @02:30AM (25 children)
Well, actually no Wikipedia doesn't disagree with me. SoylentNews is not just a MySQL installation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 01 2022, @03:17AM (24 children)
Which is why the rest of the stack was mentioned. Not that it really matters because if you read all their downtime notes, it was almost always the database going sideways.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 01 2022, @03:20AM (16 children)
And which kills your argument.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 01 2022, @04:00AM (15 children)
Except it doesn't, especially when the source of the downtime is the one part you are completely unable to argue is not capable of five-nines. But no, keep on arguing that this spectacular devop of yours made the conscious decision to lower their downtime from the theoretical and practical maximum. To be fair, he made the decisions that caused the problems, but I would hope without the goal of causing problems.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 01 2022, @04:22AM (14 children)
So you claim. But you already acknowledge that there's a lot glued to that one part.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 01 2022, @05:42AM (13 children)
All database. Those alone get you well below five nines. There are even more than that, but they are the biggies that remain in the database. And all thanks to the devop's inability to properly op, regardless of how good of a dev he is.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Saturday January 01 2022, @12:27PM (11 children)
No. First, it was claimed that TMB didn't "actually understood how the site works". Now, the goalposts have moved to "inability to properly op, regardless of how good of a dev he is" which if you look at the description of the four outage writeups is due more to the absence of people than to any lack of understanding. For example, the second and third both were long as they were due to absence of admins ("several key admins being asleep", "failure to babysit the db node"). And the big outage didn't have TMB present at all (he had left SN before that point). And none of the outage descriptions describe the role of the rest of the SN system or their impact on that database. I'm not convinced these are strictly database issues, particularly the big one.
Without that big outage, BTW, SN would be pretty close and possibly better than 2 nines of reliability. The other three outages appear to be about 4-7 days in total outage duration (99% reliability over a seven year period would be about 25 days of outage or loss).
My point here is that this is a dishonest portrayal of the system, its staff, and our needs on that. There's no reason to expect five nines of anything because it's not staffed to support that level of reliability (and all the staff are volunteer!). And most of the outage duration is due to a single failure which happened after the loss of the very admin, TMB who is being criticized here. Finally, there's no need for that level of reliability for a discussion forum, even if it were a commercial product.
Blustering about how the admin who failed to deliver 5 nine SoylentNews would be blackballed in the industry is just over-the-top nonsense.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 01 2022, @09:53PM (10 children)
Your counter was that he ran it successfully. Too bad he didn't. A proper setup doesn't require admins to be available to fix every problem or "babysit the nodes." That alone is a failure. And the design decisions on top of it exacerbated the problems thanks to not properly handling split brains. My point is that worshipping the ground he walked on because of his very visible efforts to keep the site afloat and his dev ability, doesn't change the fact that he was a shitty blowhard of an op that caused most of the large problems in the first place.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 02 2022, @03:45PM (9 children)
Except, of course, when that "proper setup" does require them to be available. My point is that there would be a much higher availability for the system, if admins had higher availability - not a skill issue. A real world attempt at high availability would have the admins ready.
Then you are an idiot. Because nobody was doing that, including TMB. This is far from the first time I've seen a blowhard with some expertise tell some volunteer organization that they're doing it all wrong, without bothering to be helpful. They don't usually bother to spin some fanciful narrative in the process. I guess that means you're extra special.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 02 2022, @10:17PM (8 children)
I've tried to be helpful, now I don't care to help. If that makes me special because you don't understand server administration, then so be it.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 03 2022, @06:35PM (7 children)
Pull my other finger.
No, it makes you special because now you're harassing the admins rather than doing something useful for anyone, including yourself. Nobody here cares that you're allegedly another person on the internet with moderately useful technology skills.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 04 2022, @12:13AM (6 children)
You seem to care an awful lot.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 04 2022, @01:44AM (5 children)
About something in this thread. It's not those mad tech sk1llz.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 04 2022, @02:26AM (4 children)
There you go talking about them again. I'm blushing over here.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 04 2022, @03:20AM (3 children)
Perhaps it's because khallow cares about the success of this site and doesn't like trolls taking potshots at the admins.
I can't stand khallow's politics. Aside from his views on COVID, we agree on virtually nothing. That said, he seems to be a good guy who genuinely wants this site to succeed. I'm pretty sure he modded up three of my posts despite disagreeing with them, which earned a lot of respect from me. You, on the other hand, seem to only care about posting snarky comments about a service that's being provided to you for free.
Have you even subscribed? Although I'm posting this comment as an AC, I subscribed about ten days ago and gave $20 to the site again. I suspect you're just here to shit on work that people are doing for you for free.
If you think this site is so hideously awful, why are you so obsessed with shitting all over it? Nobody is forcing you to be here. Why do you care so much?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 04 2022, @07:10AM
Definitely wasn't khallow. He don't roll that way. In fact, I have never come across a more vindictive down modder. Every time I point out how wrong he is, he throws several downmods, in bad faith. So your admiration is poorly placed, unless you are khallow? Could you be, AC?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 05 2022, @02:23AM (1 child)
So you can only be a critic of the website if you have subscribed in the past. Good to know for future reference despite not being applicable now for multiple reasons. I'll add that to pile along with pointing out mistakes by the admins is the same as thinking their website is hideously awful and being obsessed with shitting all over it. Why do you care so much to make the world black and white or to feed what you think is a troll? No one is forcing you to do that either.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday January 19 2022, @04:19PM
Yet here you are whining and shitting all over that website. Looks like it was a good call to keep you out of SN admin.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 01 2022, @12:30PM
(Score: 4, Informative) by janrinok on Saturday January 01 2022, @10:02AM (6 children)
Not entirely accurate. The database going sideways was often as a result of other software which was not playing nice with the database. On at least one occasion it was as a result of running out of disk space during a backup - which clearly should not have happened but is hardly the fault of the database per se. Earlier in the life of the site it was a result of various users trying to corrupt the database intentionally - as time went by we managed to find those gaps and plug them effectively. But this existed in the code that we inherited. There was also a huge amount of meta-moderation code which had to be ripped out because it was a bit of a rats nest and poorly documented - or at least nobody could figure out why it had been written the way that it had. NCommander and PJB took it out because it just didn't function the way it should and was preventing the site from working properly. This is also not the fault of the database but of slash/rehash code but the end result was that the database was being asked to do some pretty weird things and got itself tied in knots.
One of the major efforts over the last 12 months or so has been to simplify the entire structure and reduce the amount of resources that the site needed. The site is in a much better position now but there is still work to be done - and insufficient manpower to do it. The systems guys (both of them!) have worked hard behind the scenes just to keep it all working without interrupting the community's access to it. MySQL is sometimes but rarely a problem in itself - but more of a result of how our configuration was using it.
You will probably have noticed Martyb's 'Thanks to audioguy/mechanicjay' on here or on IRC, both of whom live in timezones only a few hours apart. That means that for a huge part of the day we have no support available unless they pause their jobs, private lives or sleep to help out. And the heartfelt and sincere 'Thank you' is often the only reward they get for their hard work.
Sure, you can maintain 5 nines availability at work - but can you do it for free in the middle of the night in addition to what you do during the day? You might say that you could - but words are cheap and unconvincing. Criticism is easy when you don't have to demonstrate that you have a better plan.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 01 2022, @09:38PM (5 children)
That is the whole thing in a nutshell. I could maintain that for free in the middle of the night in addition to what I do during the day. The whole point of a high availability system is that once you set it up correctly it handles most of the problems for you automatically. I've offered multiple times to help out or how to fix the setup but when your devop already thinks they know it all about administration but causes most of the recent problems, all you can do is point out the idiocy and laugh.
(Score: 3, Touché) by janrinok on Sunday January 02 2022, @02:45AM (3 children)
We await your approach to the team to volunteer your services. Thank you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 02 2022, @04:02AM (2 children)
My very own ticket to the Titanic? How thoughtful of you!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Sunday January 02 2022, @04:14AM (1 child)
As I said in an earlier post - talk is cheap. If you wish to convince me that your actions would match your words then we offer a genuine invitation to join the team.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 02 2022, @10:22PM
That offer is as genuine as my desire to disco.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Sunday January 02 2022, @04:34PM
You "could", but you aren't.
I don't want to actually scare off someone who knows their shit, but the level of knowledge you've exhibited so far I could feign with some googling. We've had AC almost from day one harassing and making up shit about SN and its admins. Here's a great example [slashdot.org] from a bit more than a year in:
This incidentally just spontaneously appeared in a thread complaining about yet another potential sale of Slashdot. There was no mention of SN prior to it. Some of the replies further down the thread were interesting as well with accusations that a defending reply sounded "angry and extremist" even though it didn't. Or the heavy insinuation that SN would have a ban list because the SoylentNews code had some urls that had the word "ban" in them.
Well, it's been more than six years from that and things didn't turn out as foretold.
So maybe you're legit. But maybe you're just a continuation of a seven year old harassment campaign.
(Score: 4, Informative) by janrinok on Saturday January 01 2022, @06:06AM (51 children)
TMB simply decided to leave of his own accord. He wasn't pushed - and NCommander was not involved.
Many of us know how the site works, but we are not experienced Perl programmers.
You also seem to think that anyone who doesn't share your views is a right-wing nut job. But don't worry, we also have left-wing nut jobs and middle-of-the-road nut jobs too. You might have opposing views but you are every bit as bad as those you criticise.
Ah, dear 'Frigatebird'. True, but shall I name your previous and current socks to help explain the problem we face, Ari? Sorry, I mean 'Frigatebird'.
We might have to publish them in the appropriate place as defined by law. This site isn't it. That is why we employ a formerly recognised accountant too. We are incorporated in Delaware - you can start your search there.
Don't hold your breath then! Two people gave $5000 dollars each to get this site off the ground. They haven't been repaid yet. How much are you paid to push your divisive politically-biased rants in submissions and comments here? Frigatebird, please tell everyone how much you have contributed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 01 2022, @11:21PM (1 child)
I ask the following question without any intent of being snarky toward you.
You and others have said there's not enough help with editing stories, that it's time consuming and there's not enough staff to post as many stories as in the past. Why would anyone volunteer now to help this site?
Nobody gets paid for working on the site. It seems like much of the discussion is about politics and takes place in journals, not in the actual stories. It seems like being snarky toward editors is almost a sport given how much it happens. Whether it's sock puppet accounts or trolls hiding behind AC posts, it seems like less than a thankless job. I know, I'm no saint when it comes to civility, and I regret the rude things I've said in the past. But incivility seems to be the norm around here for many people, without regard for how it affects the people on the receiving end of the attacks.
It seems like the value of being a staff member would be less than zero considering the time commitment, lack of pay, and the nasty behavior of some users. I can't imagine I'd have the patience for be continually insulted by people hiding behind anonymity. Maybe the staff are better people than I, to put up with it.
I work as a professor by day in a physical science. I'm temporary faculty and the pay isn't all that great, so I'm trying to build a business on the side. I also need to make time for family and for my own health. If there was some intrinsic value to volunteering for this site, perhaps it would make sense to help out in the time I have left over. But I'm not seeing the intrinsic value, particularly given the lousy behavior by some individuals in this thread and others in this story. Like many faculty members, we might get ten favorable student evaluations, but the one or two rude ones are what remember. What am I missing?
If you could convince me that I'm missing something, that there really is intrinsic value that offsets the time commitment and foul behavior of some people here, I might consider volunteering. But I think I'd have a really hard time volunteering to edit stories that will get few comments if the only "reward" is rude comments and attacks like what's on display in many comments here. Again, what am I missing?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by janrinok on Sunday January 02 2022, @04:04AM
Nothing, nothing at all. But the good community members far outnumber those whom we would be happy to see go elsewhere. Posting as AC doesn't necessarily make a bad post any more than posting under a pseudonym ensures a good one. The good members might not be as vocal as as the others but we provide this site for them - and are very pleased to be able to do so.
We are a victim of one of our core beliefs - Freedom of speech is priceless and should be protected. And that means those with whom we disagree also have the same right. But if that risks the very existence of the site then as a community we may have to take decisions that we would rather not have to take.
I also have a pseudo motto : Illegitimi non carborundum - which can be loosely translated [wikipedia.org] as 'Don't let the bastards grind you down!'
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 01 2022, @11:56PM (48 children)
My my, how quickly the abuse of power manifests! Since I've been accused multiple times of being ari, by you at least once, I'd say your "knowledge" is quite limited. Maybe you're correct, maybe you're not, but for some reason you let your emotions get the better of you and you only lash out at supposed aristarchus sock puppets. Wildly biased behavior you have there Sir Editor! You're still better than TMB ever was though, so you've got that going for you which is . . . something, I guess.
(Score: 1, Troll) by aristarchus on Sunday January 02 2022, @12:17AM (44 children)
Yes, what times of pestilence we live in! What sad times are these, when passing editors can say "ni" at will to old ladies. Even I, aristarchus, have been falsely accused of being Ari! Oh, the infamy, the deplorable degradation of decency!
On the other hand, happy new year, editors! Here's to a fresh start, and a year of less fascism.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 02 2022, @01:09AM (43 children)
Let's be honest, these posts are aristarchus talking to himself. He doesn't even make an effort to disguise what he's doing. When APK replies to himself and pretends to not be APK, we spam mod those posts. Aristarchus is doing the same nonsense APK is doing. Why should we refrain from using the spam mod on aristarchus, too?
The moderation FAQ describes spam in the following ways:
Sock puppets are forbidden and are detrimental to the site, particularly when used to dominate discussions and moderation. Instead of admitting his behavior, aristarchus continues to create new sock puppets, carries on conversations between them, and pretends that the staff of SN are being unfair to him by enforcing the rules. That should qualify as being detrimental to the site. Aristarchus replying to himself, effectively saying the same thing in both comments, is repetitive. He's done this nonsense across many articles for many weeks now.
I believe it's appropriate to use a spam mod on both comments. These comments are repetitive and lack substance. They're just aristarchus replying to himself with the same nonsense he's been spamming about for weeks.
Admins, if you feel the need to penalize me for using the spam mod, I understand. Please understand that I am doing this in good faith, based on the belief that the comments I'm modding do qualify as spam. If you disagree with my decision, I ask you to consider leniency, warning me instead of imposing a ban on moderating. If these spam mods aren't reverted within a few days, I'll proceed with the assumption that you deemed this an appropriate use of the spam mod. Thank you.
(Score: 0, Troll) by aristarchus on Sunday January 02 2022, @01:17AM (11 children)
Except, there is one tiny flaw in your plan to exile aristarchus: one of those posts was not me. I understand how it can be troubling to read posts that your ideology tells you are incorrect, but that is just part of being on the internets. Perhaps, instead of spam modding me, you ought to cease being such a snowflake?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 02 2022, @01:38AM (10 children)
Go report me to the admins. Give them the URLs of the comments and ask them to overturn the spam mods.
You and I both know that you posted both comments, and that you also posted as Frigatebird elsewhere in this thread. Drop the charade and stop insulting everyone's intelligence.
If you don't like the spam mod, take it up with the admins. Go convince them that I used the spam mod inappropriately. They can revert the spam mods and mod ban me if they deem it appropriate. Put up or shut up.
(Score: 0, Troll) by aristarchus on Sunday January 02 2022, @03:19AM (9 children)
Never thought I'd see janrinok resorting to posting AC!
The only way you could know this is if you were me, which I assume you are not, oh delightful AC, since if you were, I would know that. Who is insulting whose intelligence now? Or is that what this is, another covert aristarchus ploy for sympathy, spam modding himself much like Pisistratus of Athens did, to gain a majority vote?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 02 2022, @04:38PM (5 children)
(Score: 1, Troll) by aristarchus on Sunday January 02 2022, @09:49PM (4 children)
If this type of behavior stands, you are next, khallow!
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 03 2022, @05:31AM (1 child)
Just wanna say, I am not Ari, either! Don't spam mod me, Bro!!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 03 2022, @03:00PM
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 03 2022, @06:36PM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday January 03 2022, @08:57PM
Nobody on SN talks to themselves more than you, khallow! Once this vigilante AC figures out you are your own sockpuppet, you will be spam modded as well!
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday January 03 2022, @12:04PM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday January 03 2022, @09:04PM
Sure he did't! Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more! Say no more!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday January 04 2022, @06:20PM
AC called it.
Khallow called it.
janrinok calls it.
I call it.
All of your posts, under whichever name(s) you choose to use are insults to intelligence.
If you insist on dying on this hill, then please, hurry up and die. You are the sock master of SN, and anyone with an IQ larger than his shoe size can see it. Which pretty much means every member of SN - this isn't the place that attracts idiots. Except you, of course.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Sunday January 02 2022, @03:34AM (30 children)
If you have moderated a comment as Spam in a genuine belief that it deserves it but we disagree, what we usually do (after much internal discussion) is simply 'Unspam' the error. We have not banned any user - nor have we any intention to do so - for making an error in judgement.
If you unfairly moderate a specific account repeatedly and, in our view, with an intent to control or direct a specific discussion or prevent somebody from expressing a genuinely held viewpoint then we would certainly contact you before taking any action. As moderations are clearly identifiable to us - you have to be logged in to make them - this usually isn't a problem. It all happens quietly and politely in private.
Some people want to simply deny it or claim that we are 'censoring' their contribution. They almost always want to discuss it publicly and repeatedly thereby creating an additional workload for the staff rather than use the alternative contact means that we suggest. Their complaints are invariably 'off-topic' in the story that they make them. I will leave it to the reader to decide what their true motivation on this site is.
We accept no responsibility for the content of discussions in journals - many of us simply do not look at them. But as the purpose of journals is to enable community members to discuss topics other than those that are on the main site then it is hardly surprising that they can be abused.
If you find that you are continually moderating a specific contributor because you simply disagree with everything and anything that they write then there are alternative ways to avoid seeing their posts. Mark them as 'Foes' and add a private moderation adjustment to such posts so that they never appear on your display. Many people choose to browse at -1 and then wonder why they keep seeing all of the rubbish. Use the tools provided intelligently. I understand why they do this as many ACs make interesting contributions to discussions - but if you go searching through a rubbish dump you might find a lot of rubbish before you find a gem that justifies your search.
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 02 2022, @06:12AM (29 children)
So, janrinok, you intend to let this egreigious spam mod stand? If we needed any further evidence of right wing bias on this site, this would certainly be it. No need to "discuss it publicaly", it is what it is. You have been trying to get aristarchus to leave, ever since TMB complained about the accuracy of his analysis.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday January 02 2022, @06:34AM (28 children)
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 02 2022, @06:45AM (27 children)
I am a fucking AC, janrinok! I cannot send emails to the admin, since I have no account, no existence, no return address! Are you saying that this means my complaint about unfair spam modding counts for nothing? AC's built SoylentNews, and we can bring it down, if you do not temper your Brit attitude!
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday January 02 2022, @09:58AM (3 children)
Don't lose your temper, it will not help persuade me to help you when I am able to do so. If you do not have an account at all - what gives you the right to dictate to those who are members how this site should be run?
Please log in and send the email, or seek an outlet for your 'contribution' elsewhere. We cannot tell if your SPAM moderation is unfair if you do not tell us via email which moderations you are referring to, can we? If you are posting as AC how can we identify your particular comments? Anyone could claim that any AC posts are theirs. Indeed, I could be replying to your first ever post, couldn't I? Just create an email account and please do as we ask.
No actually they didn't build it, and no ACs without accounts have ever helped manage the site either. Account holders who post by name or as Anonymous Coward did, and still do, contribute considerably though. Some other ACs also contribute - but by no means all.
And you think that threatening to 'bring the site down' is going to endear you further to the majority who contribute in giving their labour, financially or in intelligent discussion? In what way would bringing the site down serve you or the greater community? What makes you think that this site is yours if you haven't got an account and that you have the right to make such decisions? We started with nothing - I don't want to start again but If we had to, I think that we could. But there would probably to be rule changes if that were to happen.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 03 2022, @05:54AM (2 children)
I have seen how users with logged in accounts are treated.
No right. No wrong, either, just pointing out that something is rotten in Denmark. I am trying to contribute, but it is obvious to everyone that SN desires no help, as it spirals down into a closed bubble of paranoia. No account != no dictating. You are at the mercy of the interwebs, janrinok!
(Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Monday January 03 2022, @02:09PM
We serve the community first - that is how it should be.
I didn't deny the AC assistance, but (s)he admitted having no account so will have to wait their turn. If the AC would like to report the moderation that concerns them via email as usual then we can look into it. This is not a new concept : "If you see moderation abuse [soylentnews.org] (mod bombing or spam mod), please mail the admin any comments (the cid link) showing the abuse."
It seems that a very small number of our community think that coming up in the middle of a discussion to complain about moderation (which is ALWAYS off-topic) is the best way to intimidate the admin staff into reacting immediately. It isn't - being so sparsely manned means that we have to manage our contributions to the site to fit staff availability.
Just follow the rules [soylentnews.org] please.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 03 2022, @06:44PM
Sigh, so have I. This is a non-story.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday January 02 2022, @10:48AM (22 children)
You cannot have the same discussion with me on #soylent
... and expect me to believe that you are Aristarchus on #soylent but an AC with no account in these comments:
Spam mods are illegal - who knew?
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Sunday January 02 2022, @09:54PM (21 children)
Is it too much to expect you to notice there are multiple spam mods, janrinok? One of them against me, another against some poor AC who the spam-modder evidently thinks is me, which it is not. You are not helping with your wild speculations about who might be a sockpuppet. Perhaps some decorum, and professional ethics?
(Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Sunday January 02 2022, @11:57PM (8 children)
Perhaps it is also too much to expect you to send an email as requested?
Professional ethics, decorum? Go back and look at which one of us lost his temper. Who resorted to vulgarities? You cannot even remember which of your characters you are pretending to be, or who is supposedly using which VPN. If Frigatebird gets blocked why would Aristarchus be complaining?
Email or shut up.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday January 03 2022, @02:34AM (7 children)
I was only pointing out that I was spam modded. I know nothing of Frigatebird's situation, since (s)he is a different user. Your AC persona is waxing rather verbose, janrinok. Perhaps you should reign it in, until this blows over. I also am not the AC who was illegitimately spam modded, but everybody knows who AC really is.
(Score: 3, Touché) by janrinok on Monday January 03 2022, @12:01PM (6 children)
From IRC: [aristarchus] And, to report on the "landing place" of SN, there has been illicit, illegal, and illegitimate spam mods lodged against me. This injustice must not stand, man!
Oh, have you only just realised that you are making contradictory claims and statements, and forgetting who you are supposed to be at any one time? Yet you are not prepared to tell us which comments you are referring to and which belong to an AC that you know nothing about other than you state that they were illegitimately moderated . What is 'illegal' or 'illicit' about a Spam moderation?
I am sure that it is just a coincidence that Aristarchus and Frigatebird try to use the same banned IPs from a VPN in the Philippines - banned because of the associated criminal activity not because you are using it - and that nobody else ever has used that VPN to connect to this site. But coincidences can happen I suppose.
Your attempts at using alternative accounts are blatantly obvious to many in this community. It has nothing to do with anything that you imagine I am doing. Just play by the rules or leave. I don't suppose many of us care any more which option you choose.
If you wish to continue this discussion contact us on admin@[the usual address]. This thread is now closed.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 03 2022, @06:39PM
I have to say, that's pretty exotic cloak and dagger just to rant on SN.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 04 2022, @12:24AM (4 children)
You seem to be taking this entirely too seriously, janrinok. Entertaining, if you were not an editor.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 04 2022, @02:18AM (3 children)
I imagine it doesn't seem so to janrinok.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 04 2022, @07:13AM (2 children)
The problem, exactly.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 04 2022, @08:33AM
(Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Tuesday January 04 2022, @09:45AM
Many in our community are complaining about the number of spurious off-topic comments that appear in threads and are asking why we do nothing about it. The stories are there to generate a discussion and some are more successful than others. However, trying to change the subject under discussion by hijacking the comments and raising one's own personal objections and complaints about spurious matters is one of the things that quickly drives people away from a thread. Repeated occurrences could result in a temporary comment or moderation ban.
Raising complaints about moderation is ALWAYS off topic and there are procedures detailed elsewhere on the site [soylentnews.org] explaining how to alert staff when you think that specific types of moderation abuse have occurred. The sending of an email is by far the most efficient method to use as there is no guarantee that comments on IRC will be seen immediately. You MUST include the comment identity number (CID) in ALL complaints.
A lot of work might have gone into the preparation of a story - from the moment somebody decides to make a submission to it appearing on the front page. Spoiling a discussion is disrespectful to other community members and a cause of some annoyance to all of those involved, and particularly to those who wish to hold a sensible discussion about the topic in hand.
There are plenty of alternative ways to raise personal complaints and we do not object to anyone raising genuine concerns and issues. But some use thread hijacking as a means of keeping their own visibility and personal issues in everybody's face. This is unacceptable and we will do our best to prevent it where possible. If in doubt, an email to admin@[the usual address] will get the most timely response from staff. It is important that a complaint provides sufficient information for us to identify and act on the issue in a timely manner.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 03 2022, @12:03AM (11 children)
That quote was posted by you [soylentnews.org] on September 5, 2020.
I could lob your own words back at you as insults, but I don't think that's helpful. Instead, I hope you see that you've become exactly what you despise. Along the way, you've driven away many people who agree with your views but not your tactics.
You've been given clear instructions about how to properly lodge a complaint about the spam mods. Continuing to complain about it here without going through proper channels is disingenuous. You might as well post a journal about this, which is another common tactic of yours, just to draw more attention to yourself. If you were serious about lodging a complaint about the spam mod, you'd send an email to the admins and wait on a response before publicly fussing about this more. Instead, it looks like you're doing this just because you want to draw more attention to yourself.
(Score: 0, Troll) by aristarchus on Monday January 03 2022, @07:03AM (10 children)
No, you cannot. You are not competent to do so. And, driven away who? Hemo? You make me laugh, you pathetic excuse for a Soylentil! You did not even explain,
Until you master that, you have no standing. And you suck at spotting sockpuppets.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 03 2022, @11:02AM (9 children)
Your continued denials of running sock puppets and AC trolling is as asinine as the alt-right insisting that Trump lost the 2020 election because of massive fraud or that the insurrection on January 6 was done by Antifa. The evidence is abundant and clear, but you continue to lie and fabricate this fictional narrative that you're being persecuted. I suppose you believe that if only you could run as many sock puppets as you want, you'd be able to Make Soylent Great Again.
Nemo est supra legem. The English translation is that nobody is above the law. That includes you, aristarchus. The rules clearly state that sock puppets are forbidden. Just as the alt-right's efforts to overturn the 2020 election are an affront to the rule of law, so is your continued use of sock puppets. It seems that you think you're special and that the rules about sock puppets shouldn't apply to you. Aristotle would be very disappointed in you.
You also posted as an AC and threatened to bring SN down if you didn't get your way. Is that your version of January 6, that if you don't get to break the rules and run sock puppets, you're going to destroy the site?
My point is simple: you're a hypocrite, but you're too arrogant to realize it.
(Score: 0, Troll) by aristarchus on Tuesday January 04 2022, @07:20AM (8 children)
You poor, poor AC! Refugee from the world of real, are we? You expect people on line to be who they say they are? You think that the White supremacists behind janrinok and Runaway are on the level? Do you know what it is you are carrying? Your protests are as farts in the wind, mere hemo objections, a conservative screen with no substance, a paper tiger, if you will. You do not understand me, if you think I am the hypocrite. But then, I have come to expect such stupidity from my opponents on SN. You would rather I just go away, instead of persistently pointing out the bankruptcy of your worldview. I pity you. Spam away, AC!
(Oh wait, ACs cannot mod, so you are an actual user, too cowardly to Spam mod the Mighty Aristarchus to his face? Thought as much. Coward.)
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 04 2022, @07:41AM (7 children)
This is fucking dumb. You make some big threats, so let's see you follow through with them. I personally have no problem with you taking SN down if you're actually capable of that, but I doubt you are. And I'm getting really, really tired of your stupidity. Put up or shut up.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by aristarchus on Tuesday January 04 2022, @07:44AM (6 children)
Shirley, 'Zumi, you of all soylentils realize it has already happened, Just check the comment count. Dead, really dead. And an attempt to discuss actual issues ends up with Runaway comments. Dead.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 04 2022, @07:49AM (5 children)
Nope. You said you can take SN down. Go ahead and do it.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Troll) by aristarchus on Tuesday January 04 2022, @07:53AM (4 children)
Missing my point, my dear Hazuki; it already is down, just doesn't know it yet.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 04 2022, @07:54AM (2 children)
Do it, or forever quit threatening to do it. I am so sick of your bullshit. Go on, drop the dox and bring down the hammer of the law. I dare you. I dare you to follow through on your threats.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Troll) by aristarchus on Tuesday January 04 2022, @08:53AM (1 child)
Perhaps you missed the real drama that attended to the departure of the Buzzard? One who could threatened to pull the plug. Wasn't me. I am just a pawn, or lowly philosopher, in the game of SN.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 04 2022, @05:17PM
Then stop making threats. Don't write checks your ass (which people are saying is prehensile now...?) can't cash.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 04 2022, @06:34PM
If you had a point, you could have made it years ago. Give it up, fool, your existence is pointless.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday January 02 2022, @04:10AM (2 children)
I'm fairly sure that I apologised for mistaking your identity - at least as convincingly as you deny it.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 02 2022, @06:19AM
Yeah, right, sure, chromas!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Frigatebird on Wednesday January 05 2022, @07:05PM
(Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Friday December 31 2021, @01:25PM
That's weasel-speak for "I have nothing, but I'll make some noise anyway."