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posted by on Tuesday July 25 2023, @07:31PM   Printer-friendly

I wanted to post a reminder to the community that the SoylentNews PBC has it’s upcoming meeting at the end of July on the 31st ( #meeting on irc.sylnt.us @ 1:30 PDT - web access via https://irc.staging.soylentnews.org/ ). I believe that this event is the continuation and result of a very hard push by myself and others to bring about necessary changes to the management and structure of SoylentNews.

The upcoming meeting will be to nominate one or more qualified candidates to serve on the Board. The PBC exists to define what and how SoylentNews will be and to enforce that vision. Ultimately the Board is responsible for the high-level oversight that ensures the bylaws are fulfilled. The purpose of the expansion is to include more voices from the community so they will be directly represented in the decision making effecting the community. The next meeting will be held over IRC and will be answering and addressing your questions and concerns from any of the comments posted in this article.

I highly encourage anyone who wants to participate and improve SoylentNews now and in the future to seriously consider pursuing involvement in the PBC as an officer, board member, or committee leader/member. At the very least get in touch with someone who is in such a position and offer them your suggestions.

I believe it is very important for the PBC and Community to discuss and begin to draft items for consideration by the PBC which will formalize the process and delegation of the community involvement and decision-making process. In my mind this takes the form of setting up a community governance committee which I volunteer to chair. This community should be tasked with exploring and proposing the very changes necessary to empower community involvement again.

As I am a member of the PBC I always am acutely aware that ultimately the PBC is beholden to the community of which we serve. To that end rather than I or PBC dictate solutions to the numerous problems we face let’s find a way that we can do so together.

~kolie

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SoylentNews PBC Meeting Will Be July 31st @ 1:30pm PDT on SoylentNews IRC 12 comments

The date, time, and place for the upcoming SoylentNews PBC meeting mentioned in a previous meta post from Tuesday, July 25th were announced today:

  • Date and Time: Monday, July 31 at 1:30pm PDT (4:30pm EDT / 8:30pm UTC)
  • Place: #meeting on irc.soylentnews.org (SoylentNews IRC)

More details:

The upcoming meeting will be to nominate one or more qualified candidates to serve on the Board. The PBC exists to define what and how SoylentNews will be and to enforce that vision. Ultimately the Board is responsible for the high-level oversight that ensures the bylaws are fulfilled. The purpose of the expansion is to include more voices from the community so they will be directly represented in the decision making [affecting] the community. The next meeting will be held over IRC and will be answering and addressing your questions and concerns from any of the comments posted in this article.

For further information, see the previous meta post.

Community participation is essential, so I hope we'll see as many of you there as possible.

This discussion was created by kolie (2622) for logged-in users only, but now has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by mrpg on Wednesday July 26 2023, @12:34AM (9 children)

    by mrpg (5708) <mrpgNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Wednesday July 26 2023, @12:34AM (#1317628) Homepage

    I'd like to file a bug report, I don't see any name after "posted by".

    • (Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday July 26 2023, @02:18AM (7 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 26 2023, @02:18AM (#1317631) Journal

      I wondered about that myself - had to read to the end to see who posted it. Hmmmm - how do I do that?

      --
      ‘Never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals’
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @05:00AM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @05:00AM (#1317636)

        > Hmmmm - how do I do that?

        By literally owning this site.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by kolie on Wednesday July 26 2023, @06:25AM (5 children)

          by kolie (2622) on Wednesday July 26 2023, @06:25AM (#1317642) Journal

          My account might be bugged not sure why or how the article left off the submitter. Wasn't anything I did in particular.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Wednesday July 26 2023, @07:14AM (4 children)

            by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 26 2023, @07:14AM (#1317649) Journal

            If you edited it and released it yourself but your name is either not on the list of editors, or it wasn't selected from the drop down box of names, I don't think that it does display your name.

            --
            I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
            • (Score: 2) by kolie on Wednesday July 26 2023, @07:18AM (1 child)

              by kolie (2622) on Wednesday July 26 2023, @07:18AM (#1317650) Journal

              My name was in the box when I submitted fairly certain.

              • (Score: 4, Informative) by janrinok on Wednesday July 26 2023, @07:30AM

                by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 26 2023, @07:30AM (#1317653) Journal

                The 'posted by' is not the name of the submitter, but the name of the editor who processed it. Look at the others on " rel="url2html-3288471">https://soylentnews.org/.

                The submitters name is usually created automatically when the story moves from the submission queue to the story queue. As I think you created this using the 'New' command from the admin menu, then that will not have happened.

                Secondly, it really should have been released as a Meta with the topic of "Soylent", but that is window dressing really.

                --
                I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
            • (Score: 4, Informative) by janrinok on Wednesday July 26 2023, @07:20AM

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 26 2023, @07:20AM (#1317651) Journal

              If this is the cause, then you need to add your name to the list of editors and restart rehash.

              --
              I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
            • (Score: 4, Funny) by mrpg on Wednesday July 26 2023, @11:42PM

              by mrpg (5708) <mrpgNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Wednesday July 26 2023, @11:42PM (#1317766) Homepage

              I saw his name in Author when I checked it. I blame unicode or solar flares.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by dw861 on Wednesday July 26 2023, @02:28AM

      by dw861 (1561) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 26 2023, @02:28AM (#1317632) Journal

      My emailed digest version of the story appears slightly different.

      "posted by replic8tor on Tuesday July 25, @19:31 (Meta)"

  • (Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @06:48AM (11 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @06:48AM (#1317643)

    The community of Soylentils want a neutral source of tech, and other, news. The forum has been taken over, from the beginning, by alt-right or worse partisans. And, the Editors have protected and defended these assholes. One stands out, but there are many here that are not fit for polite company, and it shows in the exodus of reasonable people from this site. I sincerely suggest that termination is the only plausible solution. If we let janrinok continue in any purvue, the gig is up. Any solution that allows Runaway1956 to continue to threaten death and destruction on progressive, gays, drag queens, of women seeking to assert control over their own bodies, is not acceptable. This is SoylentNews, not Gab lite, or white supremacist catfish fucking. Seriously, if the Board cannot see that the only thing to do, is to quash the site, and cut their losses, well, there is no hope. No one is going to recoup any initial investment on this shithole. Kolie, be warned.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by kolie on Wednesday July 26 2023, @06:55AM

      by kolie (2622) on Wednesday July 26 2023, @06:55AM (#1317644) Journal

      No one is expecting a return on money here. Not the purpose of the Board or the site.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Wednesday July 26 2023, @07:42AM (2 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 26 2023, @07:42AM (#1317654) Journal

      and other, news

      Which in your case appears to be entirely political and often involves much mud slinging. Even the comment that I am responding to includes claims against 2 different community members.

      Everybody has a right to express their own views in their own journals. You were never stopped from expressing your own personal political views in your own journals, in fact editors would suggest that you publish your rejected submissions in your journal! People are not 'assholes' for having a different view than yourself. You know what views certain journals will express - why don't you just stop reading them? Do you insist on watching Fox News every day just so that you can become enraged?

      --
      I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
      • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday July 26 2023, @03:32PM

        by Freeman (732) on Wednesday July 26 2023, @03:32PM (#1317686) Journal

        Do you insist on watching Fox News every day just so that you can become enraged?

        "Hulk Smash!" or something like that. Though, the first thing I thought of was the Borderlands DLC that started most messages from the secret agent with the spam message "Engorge!" Or maybe that's just the one that I remember?

        --
        Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @09:17PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @09:17PM (#1317753)

        Pretty sure Runaway self-identifies as "asshole". It's what he is, and he does it well.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by jman on Wednesday July 26 2023, @12:43PM (4 children)

      by jman (6085) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 26 2023, @12:43PM (#1317667) Homepage
      And how does one provide justice without identifying the recipient of that justice?

      Not really sure where your comments are coming from, but then again I'm here for the stories, read via the email digest, not by going directly to the site, and unless commenting on a story rarely read what others post about them.

      The stories are varied, interesting, and generally of a tech nature, and so far as they go I don't see bias or agenda in what I read. Can't speak for the comments, but there's nothing wrong with the stories, which seems to be the subject of your complaint.

      I do contribute financially to the site, but am not in any way related to its management or day to day operations. Just happy to help keep the lights on. How 'bout you, whomever you are? Do you help, or just bitch?

      FWIW, while I'm sure derogatory comments have been posted here, and the free speech portion of Ammendment 1 is awesome, you'd think folks would realize its corollary exists, as well: Sure, everyone has the right to speech, but just because someone talks, doesn't mean you have to listen.

      One also have the right to ignore speech.

      If these supposedly vile comments translate to actual physical acts, the courts will deal with that person. Otherwise, why get insenced about mere words? If you don't like the content, don't consume it, or let it consume you.
      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by acid andy on Wednesday July 26 2023, @01:20PM (3 children)

        by acid andy (1683) on Wednesday July 26 2023, @01:20PM (#1317669) Homepage Journal

        If these supposedly vile comments translate to actual physical acts, the courts will deal with that person. Otherwise, why get insenced about mere words? If you don't like the content, don't consume it, or let it consume you.

        I think some people here, if we assume for a moment that their intentions were honest, believed they were waging an ideological battle for hearts and minds.

        These days, some are still ranting away just the same as ever. Others got utterly burned out and resigned to the hopelessness of it all. I think in some cases a lot of sanity has drained away.

        The way I see it is the more emotionally charged or controversial comments you see here often reflect how messed up the world in general is becoming. Our community is a little nerdy slice of humanity.

        --
        Consumerism is poison.
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by jman on Friday July 28 2023, @12:18PM (2 children)

          by jman (6085) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 28 2023, @12:18PM (#1318047) Homepage
          Concur. Vitriolic posting has been around since the old BBS days, and of course has existed long before we invented computers. Haters gonna hate, and all. Rant away, if it makes one feel better, but no skin off my nose. ;)

          I would also think the perception of the world being more "messed up" in general has something to do with there being more people.

          With an increased population comes more reasonable folks, but not necessarily per capita. As a species, we seem to fixate on the negative, so it would stand that there will always be more of those who just gripe for the sake of it. Would be nice if we could evolve away from that pattern.

          Thanks for the comment!
          • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Saturday July 29 2023, @02:36AM

            by Reziac (2489) on Saturday July 29 2023, @02:36AM (#1318137) Homepage

            Some people do get high on being outraged, and on expressing that outrage in even more outrageous terms. Even so, I've never seen anything here that approaches the vitriol that was everyday-ordinary in some corners of Usenet. Compared to that, we're the pinnacle of civilized discourse.

            So maybe we have evolved away from that, at least a bit.

            --
            And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
          • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Saturday July 29 2023, @12:05PM

            by acid andy (1683) on Saturday July 29 2023, @12:05PM (#1318167) Homepage Journal

            I would also think the perception of the world being more "messed up" in general has something to do with there being more people.

            Yes absolutely this. And those in power want it because growth.

            --
            Consumerism is poison.
    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @09:04PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @09:04PM (#1317751)

      Spam mod. Typical.

    • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2023, @09:48AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2023, @09:48AM (#1318036)

      WorkLooper is an app development company in Noida [worklooper.com] We help businesses grow through enabling them to increase their sales with mobile apps. Our team of dedicated developers seek to create the best mobile apps to boost your business growth. We are an expert in developing custom apps to utilize the existing resources of the operating system, and improve the performance of the target device.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @01:46PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @01:46PM (#1317673)

    Who will stand up and represent the ACs of the site. The silent majority oppressed by the sellout brand name posters. I implore ye!

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @02:27PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @02:27PM (#1317678)

      The billions of Anonymous Cowards contribute nothing and should be ignored even if systemd keeps restarting them.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @03:18PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @03:18PM (#1317681)

      I am a silent AC therefore this post is merely a figment of your imagination. I never sell out as I survive solely on solar neutrinos. Stand up for me. I cannot be counted for I am zero divided by zero, Not a Number, your NaN!

      • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Wednesday July 26 2023, @05:59PM

        by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 26 2023, @05:59PM (#1317712)

        If you're AC then your UID is 1.

    • (Score: 5, Touché) by requerdanos on Wednesday July 26 2023, @03:23PM (1 child)

      by requerdanos (5997) on Wednesday July 26 2023, @03:23PM (#1317683) Journal

      Who will... represent the ACs of the site.

      Though I suspect the question might have been intended as rhetorical, it actually has an answer: Whoever steps up and volunteers, is who will represent the site's users. Now might be a good time for those interested to indicate such interest.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @09:02PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 26 2023, @09:02PM (#1317750)

        Go ask dalek!

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Fnord666 on Thursday July 27 2023, @04:59AM (6 children)

    by Fnord666 (652) on Thursday July 27 2023, @04:59AM (#1317788) Homepage

    I Have a Few Questions:

    1. How many positions on the board of directors will become available?
    2. How many shares of the PBC will each board member hold?
    3. Will shares be equally distributed across the board members or will one or two still hold a majority?
    4. Will NC resign from the board after new members are appointed?
    5. Will current board members be compensated for their existing shares?
    • (Score: 2) by kolie on Friday July 28 2023, @07:22PM (5 children)

      by kolie (2622) on Friday July 28 2023, @07:22PM (#1318107) Journal

      I answered fnord privately I'll elaborate that. 1 As many as needed dependent on interest and activity. The more the better. 2) Up to them to work a deal / the community / to determine - if its up to me, more stock holders and I don't need stock holders being board members specifically. 3) Im working towards a plurality. 4) When a new structure is determined yes - not to speak for him but I believe that's the way forward right now. 5) Possibly - we don't have a proposal for them.

      If the community wants me to figure this out and act independently then let me know. I've been operating under the impression that we want to design that together. These questions are asking me what I want to do - I want to get community stock holders and work out the specifics together. The specifics I'm answering here but really we need to figure that out in a discussion.

      My proposal will be to setup under the PBC as soon as possibly an editorial committee and a community governance committee. The goal being to define who is responsible for coming together and working out the future details and proposing and working with the current PBC to transition.

      • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday July 28 2023, @08:00PM (4 children)

        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 28 2023, @08:00PM (#1318112) Journal

        It helps if you reply to questions in a thread using a comment to the questions. It is how this site works. And if you cannot do that then please explain to people why not.

        1. Hand waving again - just say that you haven't decided which posts you need.
        2. Not quite sure what you are trying to say - but I will take it as 'Unknown' for the moment.
        3. Hand waving again. Plurality is simply more than one, and you are 'working towards' that goal. So it might be one or more. You avoided committing yourself on the distribution of the shares. Will they be shared equally (assuming that it is more than one person)?
        4. Will this structure be identified at the imminent Board meeting? If not, how long do we have to wait until it is formally proposed and everything can move forward? Who will approve the new structure? - this will happen before you have committees established because they are part of the new structure. How will the community indicate their views regarding the proposed new structure? How will the vote be managed?
        5. So as it stands there will either be no transfer of shares at the next Board Meeting or they will be gifted at no cost, as there is 'no proposal' for anything else. Is that correct, and if not then what is going to happen? Will the shares remain where they are for the time being?
        --
        I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
        • (Score: 2) by kolie on Friday July 28 2023, @08:27PM (3 children)

          by kolie (2622) on Friday July 28 2023, @08:27PM (#1318114) Journal

          1) It's not up to me to decide. If it was a minimum of three and preferrably 5 and that's what I'm going to consider the direction of right now. The board hasn't specifically picked a number or direction and I'm not sure it will. It needs to be spoken and presented to the existing board as a consensus.
          2) Your asking what shares the board members will hold. I don't care if board members have shares or not. I'd like equal share weight ultimately given to a group of people. The board just handles the functions of the organization. Right now two board members are the only share holders. I want 3 different shareholders in the future and staff to fill board positions to handle the actual work.
          3) It's not hand waving. You were talking in your post about one person being the benevolant dictator for life. I am saying that is the opposite of the future I'm working towards.
          4) What I will be proposing at the board meeting is that we setup a community governance committee. It's responsibility will be to delegate the mission of structuring, designing, and implemting the transition from the current PBC to whatever form is appropriate. I'd like to fill it with current staff to work out the specifics your asking about.
          5) See #4 - I will be requesting shares and a general proposal but I need to speak with the current stock holders and work that out. I've got some ideas but they need to be hashed out and the meeting will determine what that will look like going forward. What I will be proposing is essentially a large pool of shares - lets say for purposes 50000 - that the PBC itself holds be set aside and used to be used to fulfill the needs of the community governance committee. These would be new shares not from existing holders. The committee would come together we would build out and map the new structure, bylaws, board members, and stock allocation - package all that up and then proceed with executing that.

          That's just one way forward. Willing to propose alternatives at the meeting if any are discussed or to figure that out inside the committee if it's approved.

          • (Score: 2) by kolie on Friday July 28 2023, @08:49PM

            by kolie (2622) on Friday July 28 2023, @08:49PM (#1318118) Journal

            Clarifying because I said I want three. I want more than three. Three is my minimum. Sharedholders 5+ is ideal - to many we get into voting issues ( could be resolved by bylaw ammendments ) - too few and we get misrepresentation.

          • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday July 29 2023, @06:59AM (1 child)

            by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday July 29 2023, @06:59AM (#1318149) Journal
            From https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=56735&page=1&cid=1318026#commentwrap [soylentnews.org]

            Explain - in detail please - what specific changes you will propose that you can write into some form of binding agreement between you and the community

            I specifically asked for details. But you had to be asked twice before you started giving them. The first time you replied to the FNord666's questions via a PM on IRC. That is not a very useful way of letting the community know what your views actually are, is it? We have been promised a rewrite of the Bylaws since the site began. It has not happened.

            Now you have converted 'plurality' into specific figures. It appears to me, and perhaps others, that either you didn't know how many seats on the Board you wanted to create and you were simply 'hand waving' away the details, or you chose not to give the full answer that I had asked for in response to FNord666's questions earlier. You can perhaps see why some of us have difficulty in supporting your ideas, no matter how beneficial they may superficially appear.

            I am not really into stocks and shares but to my simple way of looking at things then the site has a value of $X. You are going to ask for the release of 50000 more shares in addition to the ones that they now held privately. That appears to me to actually devalue the stock that they currently hold, i.e. there are far more shares to cover a fixed value of $X, so each share is worth less that before. Why should the 2 existing stockholders (who are also existing Board members) agree to that proposal? What verbal or written agreement or assurance exists to support your belief that the proposal will be accepted? Who will control the allocation of the pool of shares? I accept that this is a grey area for me so I will leave it to others to follow this line of questioning.

            After this meeting the 2 current stock holders will still have a commanding vote in the future of the site. A pool of shares might be agreed but they will not have been allocated. What legal restriction will be proposed and agreed during the Board meeting that will prevent them from closing down the site on, say, Tuesday? The site will not have advanced to a more secure future until this is resolved.

            If, as you seem to suggest, NCommander will step down completely when do you expect this will take place? Is there a date that is being aimed for or will it be triggered by a specific event or milestone? The site was severely damaged last Nov, and now 8 months later it hasn't yet reached the same capability that we had before the 'software update'. We are assured that NCommander is working very hard to rewrite elements of Rehash but we have no measure of how much progress is being made. How much work is remaining? Is he also fixing the bug list that has built up over the last couple of years or is that still work outstanding?

            You have very generously agreed to fund our running costs for the foreseeable future, and for that I am sincerely grateful and wish to say "thank you". You have, as I understand it, completed your promise to move your own servers at your own expense to Cogent La Mirada. There must be some form of agreement between Cogent and SoylentNews PBC, the Board of which you have assured us elsewhere controls the hardware etc. Can you please confirm that it is an agreement between Cogent La Mirada and SN PBC. Who signed that agreement on behalf of SN PBC? In the event of some unexpected event or emergency, who from SN PBC can change that agreement or access the physical hardware? What maintenance will Cogent La Mirada provide? I fear, but do not know hence my question, that we have created another potential single-point-of-failure which could easily result in the site going off-air. It also appears to have given actual physical control of the hardware and software to a single person. What is the fall back mode if such an event happens? This gives me great cause for concern.

            --
            I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
            • (Score: 2) by kolie on Monday July 31 2023, @04:20PM

              by kolie (2622) on Monday July 31 2023, @04:20PM (#1318486) Journal

              If specifically asked for details. But you had to be asked twice before you started giving them. The first time you replied to the FNord666's questions via a PM on IRC. That is not a very useful way of letting the community know what your views actually are, is it? We have been promised a rewrite of the Bylaws since the site began. It has not happened.

              Now you have converted 'plurality' into specific figures. It appears to me, and perhaps others, that either you didn't know how many seats on the Board you wanted to create and you were simply 'hand waving' away the details, or you chose not to give the full answer that I had asked for in response to FNord666's questions earlier. You can perhaps see why some of us have difficulty in supporting your ideas, no matter how beneficial they may superficially appear.

              I have specifics in mind. I want to instead of providing specifics setup a way that the community does this instead of me jamming it. That's why I was being generic. If you want to know the specifics of what I WANT - well - shares in the hands of community / staff. The board elected by those - and it being a minimum of 5.

              I am not really into stocks and shares but to my simple way of looking at things then the site has a value of $X. You are going to ask for the release of 50000 more shares in addition to the ones that they now held privately. That appears to me to actually devalue the stock that they currently hold, i.e. there are far more shares to cover a fixed value of $X, so each share is worth less that before. Why should the 2 existing stockholders (who are also existing Board members) agree to that proposal? What verbal or written agreement or assurance exists to support your belief that the proposal will be accepted? Who will control the allocation of the pool of shares? I accept that this is a grey area for me so I will leave it to others to follow this line of questioning.

              After this meeting the 2 current stock holders will still have a commanding vote in the future of the site. A pool of shares might be agreed but they will not have been allocated. What legal restriction will be proposed and agreed during the Board meeting that will prevent them from closing down the site on, say, Tuesday? The site will not have advanced to a more secure future until this is resolved.

              This needs to be worked out of course. You are asking for the endgame without playing the middle. They should agree to the devaulation because the mission isn't to enrich the share holders but to provide a service to the community. I intend to empower the community via the committee to determine what those shares represent - if anything.

              If, as you seem to suggest, NCommander will step down completely when do you expect this will take place? Is there a date that is being aimed for or will it be triggered by a specific event or milestone? The site was severely damaged last Nov, and now 8 months later it hasn't yet reached the same capability that we had before the 'software update'. We are assured that NCommander is working very hard to rewrite elements of Rehash but we have no measure of how much progress is being made. How much work is remaining? Is he also fixing the bug list that has built up over the last couple of years or is that still work outstanding?

              Once a new system/bylaws/board is established. We need other people coding rehash. Do not count on NCommander for any technical support.

              You have very generously agreed to fund our running costs for the foreseeable future, and for that I am sincerely grateful and wish to say "thank you". You have, as I understand it, completed your promise to move your own servers at your own expense to Cogent La Mirada. There must be some form of agreement between Cogent and SoylentNews PBC, the Board of which you have assured us elsewhere controls the hardware etc. Can you please confirm that it is an agreement between Cogent La Mirada and SN PBC. Who signed that agreement on behalf of SN PBC? In the event of some unexpected event or emergency, who from SN PBC can change that agreement or access the physical hardware? What maintenance will Cogent La Mirada provide? I fear, but do not know hence my question, that we have created another potential single-point-of-failure which could easily result in the site going off-air. It also appears to have given actual physical control of the hardware and software to a single person. What is the fall back mode if such an event happens? This gives me great cause for concern.

              I have equipment setup at the facility mentioned. Only staging runs on it. As a member of the PBC I have a fiduciary responsibility to maintain the corporation. My company of which I am a director has a signed agreement for the space in La Mirada. I personally own the equipment there. Any member of the SN PBC can access their system on its behalf as they are the legal owners of said resources. Cogent provides full service data center services. Offsite backups of all data are maintained and the full "setup" for the system being hosted is in github. Github+data == DR plan.

  • (Score: 1) by separatrix on Friday July 28 2023, @04:20AM (5 children)

    by separatrix (29779) on Friday July 28 2023, @04:20AM (#1317998) Journal

    I've been looking forward to this announcement for a while. One question:

    as an officer, board member, or committee leader/member

    I take this to mean that committees are not made up of board members? How do people apply to be any of the above?

    • (Score: 2) by kolie on Friday July 28 2023, @06:15AM (3 children)

      by kolie (2622) on Friday July 28 2023, @06:15AM (#1318015) Journal

      I'd say reach out at the board meetings or discuss it with myself. Like I said there is a skeleton crew right now and we need to bring people in from the community and establish what we will be going forward. If you have an area that your interested in helping then let's see how we can get you involved in doing so.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Friday July 28 2023, @07:52AM (2 children)

        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 28 2023, @07:52AM (#1318026) Journal

        When will we know the #channel and time of the meeting? Those of us not on US time will have to organise our day (either Monday or Tuesday, perhaps both) around an important discussion which will not be during our usual active hours. This is entirely doable - but calling a meeting at short notice suggests that you are not too worried about who can actually 'attend' that meeting. I accept that US timing is the best option, but others will need to know well in advance of that. It is Friday - you tend not to be around during the weekend. When are you planning to announce it?

        I am not sure how you intend to manage all those attending on IRC. Will we all have voice? We have tried this before and it is extremely difficult to achieve.

        Separatrix offered his help several months ago. I passed his name to you. He has written journals on this site on the topic. They are well worth reading.

        You haven't answered the questions that were raised by FNord666 here [soylentnews.org] which ask for clarity on several important issues.

        The power of the Board rests entirely in the hands of the current stockholders. It seems to me that, when someone is prepared to pay the asking price for the existing stock, what will actually happen is nothing more than a transfer of power from one group to another. So control will pass to someone having the funds rather than anyone or any group who have been actively supporting the site for almost a decade. We have been there - it doesn't work.

        Several of us tried to buy stock in 2014, but this was rejected out of hand. What are your views on more people being able to buy stock?

        Having a Board that can be ignored or over-ruled is not taking us anywhere different. NCommander was very democratic for quite a few years, and promised all that you are now promising and more. The site was guided very much by the community. However, he still retained the power to shut the site down in May of this year. The committees will also have a similar problem. They will be able to provide an input - but they will not be able to force any specific action or direction that future stockholders decide against. The solution perhaps is to remove the stock entirely. But why would anyone who has just spent money buying that stock support a move to remove any value from it? I don't believe that they would do so. And as the new holder of the stock, he would be in a perfect position to simply over-rule any such suggestion - regardless of how many Board or Committee members might support it.

        Who do you envisage buying that stock? Who will have the final control of the hardware? Who will have total control of the site data? Who will be the owner the site domain name?

        I could support your efforts if you could only answer these questions but, no matter how often they are asked, you do not seem to have ever done so. What makes YOUR plan any different? You were unknown until May of this year. Why should we all put our trust in you? Explain - in detail please - what specific changes you will propose that you can write into some form of binding agreement between you and the community. We have had promises from the current stockholders which they have not kept. I am not going to give my vote based on promises from someone that I barely know and who is still hand-waving away the details.

        --
        I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
        • (Score: 2) by kolie on Friday July 28 2023, @07:17PM (1 child)

          by kolie (2622) on Friday July 28 2023, @07:17PM (#1318105) Journal

          When will we know the #channel and time of the meeting? Those of us not on US time will have to organise our day (either Monday or Tuesday, perhaps both) around an important discussion which will not be during our usual active hours. This is entirely doable - but calling a meeting at short notice suggests that you are not too worried about who can actually 'attend' that meeting. I accept that US timing is the best option, but others will need to know well in advance of that. It is Friday - you tend not to be around during the weekend. When are you planning to announce it?

          #meeting 1:30 PM PDT

          I am not sure how you intend to manage all those attending on IRC. Will we all have voice? We have tried this before and it is extremely difficult to achieve.

          We just going to have to get through it. Moderated channel voice after PM to bring people "up".

          Separatrix offered his help several months ago. I passed his name to you. He has written journals on this site on the topic. They are well worth reading.

          I'd like to talk with him but unfortunately he hasn't contacted me. He's welcome to pursue that if he is interested I'm here.

          You haven't answered the questions that were raised by FNord666 here [soylentnews.org] which ask for clarity on several important issues.

          The power of the Board rests entirely in the hands of the current stockholders. It seems to me that, when someone is prepared to pay the asking price for the existing stock, what will actually happen is nothing more than a transfer of power from one group to another. So control will pass to someone having the funds rather than anyone or any group who have been actively supporting the site for almost a decade. We have been there - it doesn't work.

          Several of us tried to buy stock in 2014, but this was rejected out of hand. What are your views on more people being able to buy stock?

          I want to work with the current board to distribute shares between as many people representative of the site and its interest as possible. I support that and am working towards it. Nothing I've spoken our or discussed is power from one to one. It's to take the current system which we know doesn't work and transition it to one which we design by committee of staff and community.

          Having a Board that can be ignored or over-ruled is not taking us anywhere different. NCommander was very democratic for quite a few years, and promised all that you are now promising and more. The site was guided very much by the community. However, he still retained the power to shut the site down in May of this year. The committees will also have a similar problem. They will be able to provide an input - but they will not be able to force any specific action or direction that future stockholders decide against. The solution perhaps is to remove the stock entirely. But why would anyone who has just spent money buying that stock support a move to remove any value from it? I don't believe that they would do so. And as the new holder of the stock, he would be in a perfect position to simply over-rule any such suggestion - regardless of how many Board or Committee members might support it.

          Who do you envisage buying that stock? Who will have the final control of the hardware? Who will have total control of the site data? Who will be the owner the site domain name?

          The share holders are the interest of the site. They will elect the board. My solution of this is to put the shares into holders who want the best for the site and to distribute those to many different people.
          The hardware is owned/leased/purchased by the PBC. The PBC has the share holders mentioned above. The PBC would own the domain name.

          I could support your efforts if you could only answer these questions but, no matter how often they are asked, you do not seem to have ever done so. What makes YOUR plan any different? You were unknown until May of this year. Why should we all put our trust in you? Explain - in detail please - what specific changes you will propose that you can write into some form of binding agreement between you and the community. We have had promises from the current stockholders which they have not kept. I am not going to give my vote based on promises from someone that I barely know and who is still hand-waving away the details.

          Not sure what questions haven't been answered that you've asked. Please let me know what you've inquired that is outstanding.

          what specific changes you will propose that you can write into some form of binding agreement between you and the community

          Get the staff together - let's work on that. You don't want a dictator - I'm calling for the staff to get together and work out a governance plan while I work in the current structure to bridge that. It's why I've called for the remaining editors to pick a chief editor. It's why I'm pushing for shares. In my world the people who are here should be getting shares - determing the board structure, and holding the board accountable to the mission.

          • (Score: 2, Interesting) by separatrix on Saturday July 29 2023, @09:15AM

            by separatrix (29779) on Saturday July 29 2023, @09:15AM (#1318151) Journal

            Kolie, it didn't sink in that you wanted to speak with me directly, and I didn't know how to contact you directly anyway. (I'm something of an idiot savant technically, as you may already know.) I'll be at the meeting Monday, but this weekend is [the last] good [one] for me [for a while]. I can make myself available between now and the meeting whenever you like.

            Based on the exchange between you and jan above, though, it's going to be really important to determine what changes if any need to be made to the bylaws to allow the PBC to continue, or whether it needs a wholesale overhaul, as part of Monday's agenda. Reading the bylaws now on the Wiki, I think it'd be better to keep them and adjust sections that need it, rather than start from scratch, although I have to say they seem a little extra for what the site needs. Here are a few agenda items I can see:

            -- PRESIDING OFFICER. Article IV, §8, which says that both the chairman and president "preside" over meetings of the board of directors. Which is it? The org should pick one or the other.

            -- STOCKHOLDERS vs MEMBERS. Jan in particular emphasizes the importance of participation and the vices of commerce, yet a number of people have talked about wanting to "own stock". While the bylaws may be structured to consider "stockholders" as the only people that matter, I would think you would want to emphasize a "membership" model in which volunteer hours may also give a person a say in the management of the organization. I'm not sure that someone should be able to own stock but not participate in the minimum governance meetings necessary to prevent another trainwreck like the one you're painfully extracting yourselves from.

            -- NUMBER OF DIRECTORS. Article III almost goes out of its way to not specify a number of directors, or a range for that number to fall into. This is not good policy. In the past I've suggested a minimum of 5 and a max of about 19 as an optimal range. The number should be debated in the context of how many committees you want to create; maybe you want to err more on the high side if there's a lot to be done. (But you really have to lose Art. III §4; you don't want the board to be able to enlarge itself arbitrarily.)

            I also think that the new board should plan to meet regularly, like quarterly or monthly, and that the new board should at the very least set the time of its next meeting. The second meeting of the board should have on its agenda a meeting schedule for the next year.

    • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2023, @09:50AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 28 2023, @09:50AM (#1318037)

      WorkLooper is an app development company in Noida [worklooper.com] We help businesses grow through enabling them to increase their sales with mobile apps. Our team of dedicated developers seek to create the best mobile apps to boost your business growth. We are an expert in developing custom apps to utilize the existing resources of the operating system, and improve the performance of the target device.

  • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Sunday July 30 2023, @12:08PM (2 children)

    by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Sunday July 30 2023, @12:08PM (#1318256) Homepage Journal

    What about one nontransferable share to be granted to each natural person who is a subscriber, and only as long as s/he remains a subscriber?

    • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Monday July 31 2023, @08:29AM

      by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 31 2023, @08:29AM (#1318418)

      Can shares be granted to people who live in another country?

    • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday July 31 2023, @05:40PM

      by Freeman (732) on Monday July 31 2023, @05:40PM (#1318498) Journal

      That is how corporate takeovers happen. You and your friendliest 1k buddies control all the decisions.

      --
      Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by cmn32480 on Monday July 31 2023, @12:30PM

    by cmn32480 (443) <{cmn32480} {at} {gmail.com}> on Monday July 31 2023, @12:30PM (#1318445) Journal

    Why have there been no responses to any of the buyout offers that were sent to the shareholders?

    --
    "It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear" - Norm Peterson
  • (Score: 1) by Veyrdite on Monday July 31 2023, @12:38PM (2 children)

    by Veyrdite (6386) on Monday July 31 2023, @12:38PM (#1318447)

    Q1. There are lots of opinions about which parts of the org structure are problematic (and I suspect this will get brought up in the meeting), so instead I am curious as to which parts of the org structure work well? What should new aspiring communities potentially copy?

    Q2. I have heard "NDA" been mentioned. This seems dissonant for a public site with volunteers. Can you explain what is going on here?

    Best of luck to everyone at the meeting tomorrow. I encourage everyone to be patient and do their best.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by kolie on Monday July 31 2023, @04:26PM (1 child)

      by kolie (2622) on Monday July 31 2023, @04:26PM (#1318488) Journal

      I signed an NDA when NCommannder gave me access to all the internals of the PBC so I wouldn't leak them and the PBC held liable.

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