Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

SoylentNews is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop. Only 18 submissions in the queue.
Meta
posted by martyb on Friday October 18, @03:50PM   Printer-friendly

Sometime last Tuesday, our IRC went offline. If you made any changes prior to that, could you please reverse them?

In the meantime, we have a backup server that you might want to use:

irc.libera.chat/6697 channel: ##soylentnews

This can always be used to contact staff when, as now, our own IRC is having problems. It is thought that the problems might not be internal to our servers and I am told that a ticket has been raised with Linode.

You can always use this IRC channel for general chat at any time.

This discussion was created by martyb (76) for logged-in users only. Log in and try again!
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
  • (Score: 3, Flamebait) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Friday October 18, @04:10PM (7 children)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Friday October 18, @04:10PM (#1377580)

    I'm hit by a wave of nausea each and every time.

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 18, @04:33PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 18, @04:33PM (#1377585)

      Meta, adj. [merriam-webster.com]:

      Showing or suggesting an explicit awareness of itself or oneself as a member of its category : cleverly self-referential

      Usage (albeit only in the past 15-20 years) makes 'meta' an appropriate category.

      Would it be better calling such posts "cleverly self-referential", or perhaps just "self-referential" instead?

      Complaining without suggesting something "better" or at least different is really low effort. I know you can be more than that.

      • (Score: 2, Disagree) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Friday October 18, @04:48PM (5 children)

        by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Friday October 18, @04:48PM (#1377586)

        I'm well aware that the word meta predates Zuckerberg.

        But here's the thing: swastika, apartheid, hacking and, well, facebook are also words that used to mean innocuous thing and aren't used neutrally anymore because someone loaded them.

        That's what happens in living languages. You can deplore that meta now mainly evokes a nauseating dystopian company all you want but it won't change anything: it's not a normal word anymore.

        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 18, @05:00PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 18, @05:00PM (#1377587)

          You can deplore that meta now mainly evokes a nauseating dystopian company

          I never said anything even approaching that. I don't think about that wretched hive of scum and villary -- they are not a part of my life.

          And more importantly, what should we call the 'Meta' categpry instead? I'm not against changing it, I just don't have anything better. Do you?

          • (Score: 3, Touché) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Friday October 18, @05:06PM (2 children)

            by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Friday October 18, @05:06PM (#1377588)

            I just don't have anything better. Do you?

            Yeah I do: "SoylentNews"

            • (Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Friday October 18, @05:28PM (1 child)

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday October 18, @05:28PM (#1377590) Journal

              The topic is already "Soylent". Isn't that enough of a clue?

              --
              I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
              • (Score: 5, Funny) by martyb on Friday October 18, @06:58PM

                by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Friday October 18, @06:58PM (#1377599) Journal

                Hey! Would you clown quit your bickering about "Meta"; we have some important business to discuss here! Take it somewhere else where it won't clog up this discussion! Someplace like IRC.

                Oh, wait...

                --
                Wit is intellect, dancing.
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by khallow on Saturday October 19, @04:53AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 19, @04:53AM (#1377663) Journal

          But here's the thing: swastika, apartheid, hacking and, well, facebook are also words that used to mean innocuous thing and aren't used neutrally anymore because someone loaded them.

          While we can't fix some of those historical examples, you can stop loading "meta". For example, I don't think of Facebook when I hear meta. Just do that. As a side benefit, you'll get Zuck out of your head too.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by drussell on Friday October 18, @04:10PM (2 children)

    by drussell (2678) on Friday October 18, @04:10PM (#1377581) Journal

    The IRC server software itself is fine, it is just the IPv6 network connection that is going up and down...

    If you connect directly to 72.14.184.41 via IPv4 it works fine.

    Supposedly there is a trouble ticket in with Linode about the connectivity issue, since the problem appears to have started right after they did "maintenance" on the servers used by SoylentNews.

    I think Kolie said yesterday that he has a new, staging server online also at irc.staging.soylentnews.org that should be working, including via IPv6, but I have not tried it myself.

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 18, @07:28PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 18, @07:28PM (#1377603)

      How can that post be modded funny? I'm at a loss

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by drussell on Friday October 18, @07:37PM

        by drussell (2678) on Friday October 18, @07:37PM (#1377604) Journal

        Indeed... I have no idea...

        Thanks to Kolie, BTW for his efforts on administration and preparations for site migration...

        He even renewed the site's SSL certificates yesterday, a couple weeks ahead of the expiry meltdown for once! :)

        They appear to be all installed and functional already.

        Kudos! Thanks, Kolie!!

  • (Score: 2, Disagree) by krishnoid on Friday October 18, @06:00PM (13 children)

    by krishnoid (1156) on Friday October 18, @06:00PM (#1377592)

    It makes me wonder why massive applications like Slack and Microsoft Teams are the standard in companies. Isn't IRC old, stable, reliable, distraction-free, with a well-tested API?

    • (Score: 5, Touché) by Unixnut on Friday October 18, @06:14PM (2 children)

      by Unixnut (5779) on Friday October 18, @06:14PM (#1377593)

      because there is no profit in an open system that is "stable, reliable, distraction-free, with a well-tested API".

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Friday October 18, @08:28PM (1 child)

        because there is no profit in an open system that is "stable, reliable, distraction-free, with a well-tested API".

        S'truth. Between IRC and XMPP [wikipedia.org], there's no reason for anyone to use commercial crap like Teams, Slack or Discord.

        But people are lazy and ignorant, so it turns out that P.T. Barnum (or whoever it actually was who said it) [wikipedia.org] was right. And more's the pity.

        --
        No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
        • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Unixnut on Friday October 18, @08:44PM

          by Unixnut (5779) on Friday October 18, @08:44PM (#1377611)

          Take note that the people who pick what tech you use are pretty much never technical. Those who use the system most have no say.

          I remember a previous company I worked for. They had their own IRC server, the techies loved it. However non-techs didn't like or use it because they could not share attachments and images, so they proposed Slack. There was a huge pushback against replacing IRC with Slack, but the objections were overruled because Slack had an IRC gateway, so the techs can use IRC and everyone else used Slack.

          Of course, later on Slack did the "bait and switch" and removed the IRC gateway, but by then it was too late, the old IRC servers were gone and the business forbade any other IM system except Slack.

          A few years later, they decided to dump Slack for Teams because quite simply "it was free" and bundled already with Windows. So why pay for Slack? Once again a lot of push back against it, but the rule was enforced and everyone switched to Teams. How good a system was technically was never even a consideration, let alone things we techies care about (like openness, API's, stability, etc...), even reliability is not critical if the price is right (and a good support contract in place).

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by vux984 on Friday October 18, @06:31PM (9 children)

      by vux984 (5045) on Friday October 18, @06:31PM (#1377595)

      People want to share links, images, embedded video, cute little emojii reactions; they want contact list and calendar integration, phone system integration, active directory group deployment, management, they want to drop into voice calls, with cross platform screen sharing, whiteboards, and remote control, with custom backgrounds, and whatever else.

      IRC is great at what it is, but most of the above won't fit, and anyone trying to add it all will fail because there's no way everyone else will agree on the changes.

      • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Friday October 18, @06:34PM (4 children)

        by krishnoid (1156) on Friday October 18, @06:34PM (#1377596)

        So there's no IRC client/service that provides all that stuff (maybe through a secondary channel), but also allows people to connect in via just text? Seems like that would be a good compromise.

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by bryan on Friday October 18, @07:13PM (2 children)

          by bryan (29) <bryan@pipedot.org> on Friday October 18, @07:13PM (#1377601) Homepage Journal

          There have been several proprietary software platforms. For example, Slack [wikipedia.org] started out with a built-in IRC gateway. But they ended up shutting down the official IRC gateway due to low usage.

          Discord is another popular alternative to IRC these days. With people using either the WebRTC support inside your browser or their electron-like desktop app to connect. Again, while it may be free (as in beer) to use, it is not so free (as in speech) to make into your own.

          • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday October 18, @07:46PM (1 child)

            by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday October 18, @07:46PM (#1377606) Journal
            Hi Bryan - just saying 'hello'. Not seen you in quite a while.
            --
            I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by kolie on Friday October 18, @09:56PM

          by kolie (2622) on Friday October 18, @09:56PM (#1377616) Journal

          Wouldn't be hard to make additions to irc protocol to add them.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Friday October 18, @08:31PM (3 children)

        People want to share links, images, embedded video, cute little emojii reactions; they want contact list and calendar integration, phone system integration, active directory group deployment, management, they want to drop into voice calls, with cross platform screen sharing, whiteboards, and remote control, with custom backgrounds, and whatever else.

        A fair point. Although XMPP, which I shouted out [soylentnews.org] in a another comment does provide most, if not all, of that functionality.

        --
        No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
        • (Score: 5, Interesting) by kolie on Friday October 18, @10:01PM (1 child)

          by kolie (2622) on Friday October 18, @10:01PM (#1377618) Journal

          XMPP++

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by NotSanguine on Friday October 18, @10:07PM

            XMPP++

            You are, of course, correct. Plug-ins/extensions are required to support voice and video/screen sharing.

            And those are available, free as in libre *and* beer, stable and well used -- just as xmpp is.

            --
            No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
        • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Unixnut on Friday October 18, @10:13PM

          by Unixnut (5779) on Friday October 18, @10:13PM (#1377624)

          I do believe that a lot of the IM systems out there are in fact based on XMPP. I seem to remember whatsapp started that way, as did a few others. It is no coincidence that shortly after XMPP came out, so sprang into being quite a few branded messengers. I suspect a lot of them bootstrapped themselves with XMPP.

          XMPP for me would be a good modern alternative to IRC for those who need/want to share files, images, documents and chat but as I mentioned earlier, there is no profit in an open and standard system anyone can connect to. Companies want their own walled gardens and to force people in there where they can "monetize" them.

  • (Score: 2) by Fnord666 on Saturday October 19, @08:03PM (3 children)

    by Fnord666 (652) on Saturday October 19, @08:03PM (#1377717) Homepage
    So is IRC still borked or has the situation been resolved?
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Saturday October 19, @08:51PM (2 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 19, @08:51PM (#1377725) Journal

      If you connect IPv4 to port 6697 it works fine. If you use ZNC abd connect to port 60000 the problems are still there.

      --
      I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
      • (Score: 2) by Fnord666 on Sunday October 20, @03:52PM (1 child)

        by Fnord666 (652) on Sunday October 20, @03:52PM (#1377803) Homepage

        If you connect IPv4 to port 6697 it works fine. If you use ZNC abd connect to port 60000 the problems are still there.

        Thanks. Interesting that it's only thru ZNC.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Sunday October 20, @03:59PM

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 20, @03:59PM (#1377804) Journal

          I think that is because ZNC is set up using internal IPv6 addresses, which are unable to access the outside world because the IPv6 DNS values are not being loaded by the linode servers.

          I am reporting this second-hand and is not something I am sure of, so I am prepared to be corrected if anyone knows any better.

          --
          I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 20, @12:08AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 20, @12:08AM (#1377745)

    How does one disguise their IP/hostname when connecting to SN's IRC server with a client like mIRC or HexChat so that it's disguised in a /whois query? Is there some mode that you set like +i for invisible? Is it automatically set by the server, or do users have to manually set it when connecting?

    I've occasionally considered signing on IRC, but I'd prefer not to reveal my hostname or have it show up in the logs so that certain malicious users could use it to determine my geographic location. I don't want to make it any easier for our resident spammer to find any information that could be used for doxxing me. I assume the web-based client automatically disguises a person's hostname and IP in /whois queries, but I'd prefer to use a client like mIRC or HexChat. I'm familiar with EFNet and probably spent far too much time on there in the past, but it doesn't have this functionality as far as I know. How does that work on SN's IRC server?

    • (Score: 2) by Fnord666 on Sunday October 20, @04:07PM

      by Fnord666 (652) on Sunday October 20, @04:07PM (#1377805) Homepage

      How does one disguise their IP/hostname when connecting to SN's IRC server with a client like mIRC or HexChat so that it's disguised in a /whois query? Is there some mode that you set like i for invisible? Is it automatically set by the server, or do users have to manually set it when connecting?

      I've occasionally considered signing on IRC, but I'd prefer not to reveal my hostname or have it show up in the logs so that certain malicious users could use it to determine my geographic location. I don't want to make it any easier for our resident spammer to find any information that could be used for doxxing me. I assume the web-based client automatically disguises a person's hostname and IP in /whois queries, but I'd prefer to use a client like mIRC or HexChat. I'm familiar with EFNet and probably spent far too much time on there in the past, but it doesn't have this functionality as far as I know. How does that work on SN's IRC server?

      Once you have a registered nick on the server, you can request a vhost (virtual host) to replace your actual host in the whois information.
      use the following commands:

      • /hs offerlist - See a list of available vhosts
      • /hs request the.vhost.that.you.want

      Once approved by an admin, your vhost will replace your real host in the whois administration. I believe IRC admins can still see your real host however.

    • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday October 20, @04:07PM

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 20, @04:07PM (#1377806) Journal

      Please wait until the current IRC problem is addressed,

      When you register your username the system can be set to automatically encrypt your IP etc. Contact chromas for more information.

      --
      I am not interested in knowing who people are or where they live. My interest starts and stops at our servers.
(1)