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posted by on Friday August 25 2017, @11:26PM   Printer-friendly
from the we're-really-big-time-now dept.

Welcome, new trolls! We're pleased as punch to have you aboard, unfortunately as you may have noticed our moderators are unable to give you the moderations you've been working so hard for. Since we can't really do much about people not moderating more, we're going to be giving out more points so that the ones that do can give you the attention you so desperately crave.

Moderators: Starting a little after midnight UTC tonight, everyone will be getting ten points a day instead of five. The threshold for a mod-bomb, however, is going to remain at five. This change is not so you can pursue an agenda against registered users more effectively but so we can collectively handle the rather large uptick in anonymous trolling recently while still being able to have points remaining for upmodding quality comments. This is not an invitation to go wild downmodding; it's helping you to be able to stick to the "concentrate more on upmodding than downmodding" bit of the guidelines.

Also, this is not a heavily thought-out or permanent change. It is a quick, dirty adjustment that will be reviewed, tweaked, and likely changed before year's end. Questions? Comments?

 
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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by bob_super on Friday August 25 2017, @11:38PM (39 children)

    by bob_super (1357) on Friday August 25 2017, @11:38PM (#559153)

    How much pain would it be to have separate pools for modding ACs vs registered users?

    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +1  
       Interesting=1, Total=1
    Extra 'Interesting' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   3  
  • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 25 2017, @11:53PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 25 2017, @11:53PM (#559161)

    I am registered but almost 99% of the time post AC. Sorry people are dicks and like to dox you. You never know what will set them off... So sorry if that makes you mad but I am going to protect myself.

    I try to mod fairly. I regularly mark things OT that I may even agree with. If you are not contributing to the convo. Then I mark it. Also a reminder to other mods. Also Troll != disagree. There are a couple of accounts that tend to pick up troll from me. They are obvious troll accounts meant to just piss people off. They are almost always offtopic or try to make the topic about something they hate/love.

    I did not mod you on this one bob_super, but I would however mark it disagree.

    The slashdot system of modding has a bad problem with more points in the pool. Stuff will either go -1 or +5 and stay there. I have seen many comments that are a 3 maybe a 4. That are +5 or -1. It is a poor side effect of the system. There is no clean way to fix it. Not everything is OMZG AMAZEBALLS or DIE DIE DIE IN FIRE YOU BASTARD. Yet this system produces it. Also being logged in and adding +1 to a comment produces over inflated items. So other mods look at the current score and decide. Adding more points will basically degenerate the sd system of modding into thumbs up and down.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by bob_super on Saturday August 26 2017, @12:12AM (4 children)

      by bob_super (1357) on Saturday August 26 2017, @12:12AM (#559174)

      I am not sure you are correctly answering my question, which was genuinely the technical difficulty of having mod points separated between AC and registered users. I mod ACs up a lot more than I mod them down (mostly because very efficient people do take care of the trolls quickly), and outside of rare odd cases, I am not complaining about mods I receive.
      I have left obvious trolls unmodded in the past, because I wanted to keep points to reward those very good comments which keep me coming. Having a separate pool to reward ACs or punish AC trolls could potentially avoid that effect, when giving everyone ten "universal" points risks a +5 overdose...

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @12:30AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @12:30AM (#559181)

        I just disagree. Like I said. I think more points will make the problem worse. -1/+5 is what will happen no matter what. More points just shows the issue more. 'special points' do not do any good other than let people over-inflate a particular segment.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @06:21PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @06:21PM (#559520)

          As I see the moderation system here get more and more complex, the more I think it should just be thrown out completely.

          It's like a balance is trying to be found for something that cannot be balanced.

          Each supposed ``fix'' introduces new problems and new incentives for unwanted behavior.

          So throw it all away. Throw away comment ratings. Throw away mod points.

          Show all comments by default, regardless of who they're posted by.

          If you like a comment, then reply and say why.

          If you don't like a comment, then reply and say why.

          If you don't want to read a comment, then skip over it.

          I always have to browse at -1 anyway, so I can see the best comments here.

          The ``quality comments'' that have been modded up are usually bland and state the obvious, or worse, they push some circle-jerk line of thinking.

          The most intelligent, insightful and thought-provoking comments are often at 0 or -1.

          Having to browse at -1 just to see the best content means that the moderation system has utterly failed. So get rid of it. Discard it.

          The moderation system here serves no beneficial purpose, and is actually quite harmful. It should be removed immediately.

          • (Score: 2) by Justin Case on Saturday August 26 2017, @07:04PM

            by Justin Case (4239) on Saturday August 26 2017, @07:04PM (#559534) Journal

            Damn! I'd love to mod you up, not because I agree, but because you raise some thought provoking ideas I haven't seen so well supported before, so I'd like others to consider them too.

            But...

          • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Sunday August 27 2017, @12:36AM

            by Reziac (2489) on Sunday August 27 2017, @12:36AM (#559652) Homepage

            While I largely disagree, you raise an interesting point: we all disagree on what's interesting or thought-provoking, sometimes vehemently. I've rescue-modded enough comments from -1 hell to know that it doesn't mean "positively is shit and needs to vanish" -- at least in my opinion. Yours? that's why we have discussions and don't just repeat everything here by rote.

            --
            And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday August 25 2017, @11:56PM (15 children)

    Pretty significant one. And one that I can't tackle any time soon anyway what with constant back pain keeping me from coding right now and a paying gig coming up next week or so that I'll have to code through regardless. Try and keep it to an average of 20% or so downmods to total mods and you won't even get a frown out of me. Not that it's something that's regularly checked; we allow worse moderation ratios, we just don't like them.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 2) by Non Sequor on Saturday August 26 2017, @12:50AM (4 children)

      by Non Sequor (1005) on Saturday August 26 2017, @12:50AM (#559201) Journal

      Ok, so why not more modpoints, but the cost of modding varies with the direction and status of the target? Logged in vs anonymous and curent score maybe.

      --
      Write your congressman. Tell him he sucks.
      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 26 2017, @01:56AM (2 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday August 26 2017, @01:56AM (#559222) Homepage Journal

        Simplicity first, complexity if that doesn't work out. It's a happy little rule.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2) by FakeBeldin on Monday August 28 2017, @07:47AM (1 child)

          by FakeBeldin (3360) on Monday August 28 2017, @07:47AM (#560091) Journal

          Funny, my thoughts after reading a few comments went exactly like this.
          - Problem is trolls? Well then don't give everyone more, just give everyone more options to beat trolls down.
          - We like promoting ACs, but worry about promoting everything to +5? Make it "for free" to promote a comment (AC, or maybe all) from 0 to +1.
          - Oh, we want to avoid having everything at +5? We could make it progressively "more expensive" to promote comments further up.

          Yeah, all of it is possible. All it requires is TMB hacking a lot. For which we only pay him in more comments.

          As a comment above pointed out:
          Is the point of the moderation system sufficiently satisfied by the current version of the moderation system?
          Clearly, in the eyes of (at least) TMB: nope, so let's try a simple fix.
          Downside I see to the simple fix is that it'll cause a lot more upmods then downmods, while the problem was insufficient downmods.

          I don't see a simple solution to that without changing the community. You could get some folks as designated downmodders or some such. But yeah, that changes the dynamics and then you have police running around the forums... :s.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday August 28 2017, @10:06AM

            Actually, the problem this was meant to address wasn't insufficient downmods. I stated that poorly. It was meant to allow people to keep a good upmod to downmod ratio while still addressing the called-for downmods. Which is to say, don't take that as meaning I don't think we can use the additional upmods as well. Not on all stories by any means but on the heavily commented ones we could definitely use more upmodding.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 26 2017, @01:57AM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday August 26 2017, @01:57AM (#559224) Homepage Journal

        Not shouting you down, mind you. Just saying let's see if we can fix it without big changes before we go getting funky with the Cheeze-Whiz.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 2) by Kell on Saturday August 26 2017, @02:17AM (3 children)

      by Kell (292) on Saturday August 26 2017, @02:17AM (#559231)

      Sorry to hear you're having back pain problems, Buzzard. Best wishes to a speedy recovery!

      --
      Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 26 2017, @02:22AM (2 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday August 26 2017, @02:22AM (#559236) Homepage Journal

        Cheers. It's just a pulled muscle but it's a back muscle and those do tend to cause way more annoyance than anywhere else.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2) by Kell on Saturday August 26 2017, @04:20AM (1 child)

          by Kell (292) on Saturday August 26 2017, @04:20AM (#559279)

          Glad to hear it's nothing permanent/crippling. Speedy recovery!

          --
          Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @06:47AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @06:47AM (#559325)

            Uzzard injured his back while trying to suck his own cock; therefore, he deserves to be permanently crippled for attempting such an immoral act.

    • (Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday August 26 2017, @03:44AM (2 children)

      by Arik (4543) on Saturday August 26 2017, @03:44AM (#559271) Journal
      "Try and keep it to an average of 20% or so downmods to total mods and you won't even get a frown out of me. Not that it's something that's regularly checked; we allow worse moderation ratios, we just don't like them."

      As I would prefer to avoid being disliked, it would be hella cool if I could actually see my moderation ratio, on whatever time-frame and terms of reference y'all look at them. Because I have little idea what my ratio would look like. I am pretty sure I mod up more than down, but is it 1%? or 30%? *shrugs* no clue. I spend those points on impulse. Generally trying to up-vote if I think something is legit insightful or informative and down-vote if I think something is a troll/flamebait AND rated too high already. I'm sure some days I do a LOT more down-voting than others though. When you look at it, are you looking at a daily score, a weekly/monthly/yearly average or what?
      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by lx on Saturday August 26 2017, @06:29AM

        by lx (1915) on Saturday August 26 2017, @06:29AM (#559320)

        This way it's better. IMO modding should be done on the merits of the comment, not on the basis of moderator point scoring. Modding is about promoting healthy discussion not about you or me being liked/disliked. If that means wacking trolls all day and getting a lower mod score, so be it.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 26 2017, @10:10AM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday August 26 2017, @10:10AM (#559373) Homepage Journal

        Last I looked at it, it was a since-go-live tally. Don't worry about a day to day or month to month ratio. Not all days and months are created equal. The smallest unit of time worth considering is probably six months or a year's span.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Saturday August 26 2017, @04:09AM

      by RS3 (6367) on Saturday August 26 2017, @04:09AM (#559277)

      Oh man, sorry to hear about your back pain. I've had problems with it; used to take and swear by various glucosamine supplements (esp. "Cosamin"), but stopped a few months ago. Back started hurting a lot, but now pain has gone away.

      I find it's mostly sitting positions that cause the problem. If I sit such that my lower back curves outward, very very bad for many days. If I'm sure to keep it pulled in, I'm good.

      And moderate exercise and activity seems to help. Most of the work I do is fairly physical but doesn't seem to hurt the back, unless I do something really stupid like try to pick up something crazy heavy. A few 80 lb bags of concrete mix don't seem to be a problem (that work is very rare) as long as I'm generally in good shape.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 27 2017, @08:49AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 27 2017, @08:49AM (#559747)

      Can you assign modpoints and downmodpoints, such that they can be used only according to their direction?

  • (Score: 3, Disagree) by Snotnose on Saturday August 26 2017, @12:02AM (13 children)

    by Snotnose (1623) on Saturday August 26 2017, @12:02AM (#559168)

    I don't mod AC's anywhere but down. If you can't stick your name on your droppings I'm not gonna bother.

    --
    In this month in 1958 Project Snot was started. This has upset many people and is widely considered a bad idea.
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by Gaaark on Saturday August 26 2017, @12:32AM (6 children)

      by Gaaark (41) on Saturday August 26 2017, @12:32AM (#559184) Journal

      I don't usually mod AC's either, but if one posts something funny or interesting, I'll grant them an up mod. You have to realize that some members just like being anon.

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @02:23AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @02:23AM (#559238)

        You have to realize that some members just like being anon.

        If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide.

        • (Score: 3, Touché) by Gaaark on Saturday August 26 2017, @12:13PM (1 child)

          by Gaaark (41) on Saturday August 26 2017, @12:13PM (#559410) Journal

          Tell that to the Jews in Nazi Germany, 1938ish, who were told to report to police stations to be identified as Jews.

          Oh...you can't. They're dead.

          --
          --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
          • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @07:51PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @07:51PM (#559557)

            whoooooooooooooooshhhhhhhhhhh
            .
            .
            .
            .
            . ---> You.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Reziac on Saturday August 26 2017, @03:24AM (2 children)

        by Reziac (2489) on Saturday August 26 2017, @03:24AM (#559259) Homepage

        I usually don't notice who the poster is til after I've already decided to mod it, so makes no diff to me if it's an AC or whoever.

        --
        And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
        • (Score: 2) by Kell on Saturday August 26 2017, @04:27AM (1 child)

          by Kell (292) on Saturday August 26 2017, @04:27AM (#559280)

          Ditto - moderate the comment, not the commenter. But given that the vast majority of shit comments come from ACs, there is reason to consider "open season" on moderating ACs

          --
          Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
          • (Score: 3, Touché) by Reziac on Saturday August 26 2017, @04:47AM

            by Reziac (2489) on Saturday August 26 2017, @04:47AM (#559292) Homepage

            Oh, I dunno... I often find I've modded up an AC. And I can think of a dozen folks here who shitpost under a regular nym.

            --
            And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @03:13AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @03:13AM (#559256)

      My ac posts are the same as my logged in posts

    • (Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday August 26 2017, @03:33AM

      by Arik (4543) on Saturday August 26 2017, @03:33AM (#559262) Journal
      About the only time I bother to down-mod an AC is when their comment was inappropriately up-modded before I got to it.
      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Saturday August 26 2017, @08:02AM

      by maxwell demon (1608) on Saturday August 26 2017, @08:02AM (#559339) Journal

      You are doing the readers of this site a disservice. Moderation is not done for the posters, but for the readers. If you don't want to read AC posts, you can just go to your settings and give ACs a negative score there. That way you are not affecting other readers who want to read comments based on their quality, not based on their authorship.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @01:27PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @01:27PM (#559424)

      I don't mod AC's anywhere but down.

      That's a direct admission of intentional abuse of the moderation system.

      This "Snotnose" account, and any other associated accounts or IP addresses, should be permanently banned from moderating here.

    • (Score: 2) by FakeBeldin on Monday August 28 2017, @07:51AM (1 child)

      by FakeBeldin (3360) on Monday August 28 2017, @07:51AM (#560092) Journal

      I don't mod AC's anywhere but up. If I think it's worth reading, I'll mod it up so it gets more eyeballs.

      Downmodding AC's is kind of pointless - either they are at 0 where the only folks who get to see them are the folks who choose to do so (so why interfere), or they are upmodded, in which case other moderators already found the comment worthy of more attention.

      • (Score: 2) by FakeBeldin on Monday August 28 2017, @08:02AM

        by FakeBeldin (3360) on Monday August 28 2017, @08:02AM (#560096) Journal

        PS: If you were trolling: congrats! Bait widely taken by many, including me!

  • (Score: 2) by bart9h on Saturday August 26 2017, @02:58AM (2 children)

    by bart9h (767) on Saturday August 26 2017, @02:58AM (#559253)

    Or maybe downmodding ACs don't cost you modpoints?

    • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday August 26 2017, @08:04AM (1 child)

      by maxwell demon (1608) on Saturday August 26 2017, @08:04AM (#559340) Journal

      That would just provoke bad behaviour.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 27 2017, @09:00AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 27 2017, @09:00AM (#559750)

        I can live with that. Downmoding is not erasing/censoring, although it can push a post into an unfitting company. For someone like me who always post as an AC and always reads at -1, it means that I, and whoever reads my posts, have to see some ... online vandalism equivalent, too, but any grownup should have enough guts to endure that.