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I was going to post this to a particular story, but thought this might generate more attention and discussion as a general submission.
Seriously, what is going on with all these troll mods? Just because you disagree with someone, thus earning a "disagree" mod, does not mean that person is a "troll." To steal a definition from Urban Dictionary:
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
Just because you disagree with someone, does not mean they are trying to do the above. Be faster on the "disagree" and slower on the "troll." Under such abuse, it is hard to have a good discussion and, in itself, is trollish behavior by "generally disrupt[ing] normal on-topic discussion." Other than people disciplining themselves, a concerted effort to police such abuses, or making moderation logs public on the bottom of a comment where the score is shown now, I'm unsure of what to do about. As it stands, it is getting increasingly ridiculous to read what discussion is here on any topic remotely controversial, and is expanding outside of even those. It is starting to drive me away from the site, and I'm somewhat confident it is doing the same for others. I'd be interested to see what others think about the depth of the problem, if they even believe it even exists at all, and what solutions you all have for it.
[Ed note. This story is published exactly as received. First off, it bears repeating that complaining about moderations in the comments often leads (rightly) to an off-topic moderation. That is a contributing factor to my decision to run this story. Secondly, moderation is something that I on occasion have found I've fat-fingered and given a different moderation than expected. Thirdly, in the grand scheme of things, a comment's moderation is — relatively speaking — small potatoes. It is NOT a measure of your IQ or value as a human being. or standing in the community. Just accept that stuff happens and that as likely as not, someone will be along to moderate it the other way. Which is a good opportunity to say: PLEASE USE YOUR MOD POINTS! Lastly, if you think a comment was moderated in error, then send the CID (Comment ID) link e.g. "(#876543)" in an email to admin (at) soylentnews (dot) org. Keep in mind however that we are all volunteers here and there most likely will be a delay between when you send out an email and when we can get around to it. --martyb]
[Updated: 20190823_111312 UTC See comment from JR who far more precisely and eloquently expressed the idea I was attempting to. I concur with his assessment. If I want people to upmod a comment of mine that I believe was unfairly downmodded, then I need to be willing to upmod other's mis-modded comments. For perspective, so far this month, anywhere from ~150-~350 mod points were used in any given day. It bears repeating: use your mod points!]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Friday August 23 2019, @10:10AM (28 children)
I am writing on SN about my experience with police harassment of myself, and my 20 years experience with this means that I actually know a few things about actual current operations. I call it Reverse Social Engineering, when years later you realize someone you knew wasn't who you thought they were, and start to piece together what they were doing and why.
You will find in response to my comments and in my downmods, a consistent pattern of dismissive responses that often include a troll downvote. I will argue with anybody, but these people know they can't argue with me.
Sites like Hackernews, Steemit, Raddle, Reddit, are I believe integrated directly with the police and result in any account I make there being dealt with completely differently, as if no one sees what I post and only police respond, and then only to call me crazy. I learned on day 1 at hackernews you are not allowed to be skeptical and must be a mozilla fanboy, and that they aggressively silo/shadowban accounts.
SN has been, thankfully, different, and I have been able to say my piece and no one can make it disappear, get silo'd. I took a long time to decide whether to post here with my real name, but it is I believe the only place on the internet where I can.
So I came here to say that when TPTB do not want you to see something, you are likely to find a comment calling a person crazy, a troll downmod, etc. Because paid soldiers really do sit at eglin AFB and fret over what people like me are posting, and there are people who are actually paid to try to minimize the operational data leakage of the people who are targeted but managed to survive. And hasbara, where everyone who can't be brainwashed into loving apartheid must be put on a list and dealt with.
On other sites there are also big upvote brigades, that's how I learned things like 'thconsciousresistance', disobedientmedia.com, caitlin johnstone and v4vapid were cops. If you DON'T see the effect of mechanized downvoting and infiltration of activists, you should be suspicious. FYI reddit/r/conspiracy is entirely cops, make sure everybody knows that. And the site like amitargetted.com or zersetzung.org are also run by police to trick people like me into asking help from our abusers.
I recommend to the mods here to take inventory, as you are a group of people who works well together and has a basis of trust, somewhere you and your relationships are drawn out on a board and a team of pschologists is developing an operational plan to make you all hate each other so this site gets taken offline. Distrust in the mod system as a result of systemic abuse could be a part of something like this.
So beware. The troll downmod issue is like a sharkfin for what we are dealing with, and the thing the sharkfin hates the most is anyone daring to publicize its operational patterns.
They could of course just leave us alone and let us talk freely, but apparently someone with a lot of power really hates this idea. Which is why it is important for us to not be stooges.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 23 2019, @01:41PM (6 children)
I'm not a cop. But I think you are crazy, yet I will still read your contributions. Wanna be our replacement MDC?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Friday August 23 2019, @03:12PM
I'll confess to drawing parallels between GP and MDC.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Friday August 23 2019, @04:13PM
>I'm not a cop
this is what a cop would say.
To GP: the best place for sowing propaganda is in comments and discussions. This is why I don't consider view count or moderation as indicators that I am browsing good material.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday August 24 2019, @12:48AM (1 child)
He's not at all crazy. If anything he's entirely too sane, and speaking from experience. It is not paranoia when people actually are out to get you, and being well-adjusted to a sick society is not a sign of a healthy psyche but an ignorant and/or defeated one.
See, not everyone who seems crazy is actually crazy. Some of them are, but others may just have insight into society or human nature you don't. "Doesn't jibe with my worldview at first blush" is not the same as insane; examine *why* there's a mismatch. Now if the reason turns out to be something like "the Reptilians of Zeta Reticuli are trying to get us all to kill ourselves in nuclear holocaust so they can feast on our souls," then yes, it's time to pull out the C-word.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Saturday August 24 2019, @01:47PM
Thank you for saying this.
I have read all conspiracy literature I can find, this is just one of the traits that I think makes me interesting to the watchers.
When I grew up, I really believed what I was taught, I was an honors history student who was actually trying to understand locke and hobbes when I was 16. I participated in every class discussion and kindof thought the other people in my class, a few of whom went on to harvard, were kindof dull in the head.
I have to be really careful what I say not to lose any credibilty, because what undercovers have done to me in numerous instances, in numerous cities, is outright crazy, I hardly believe it, or it astounds me. I can't believe anyone would consider this type of harassment and infiltration a day job, it boggles my mind.
I can just say that I can't relate to what they are doing at all, it is unamerican and against everything in the constitution.
So I don't know who is at the top of america's totem pole because the system operates so opposite to how it is advertised, that it has competely shaken my trust in what it is. Now I honestly don't know what it is. All I know is it is total bullshit to think you have privacy, free speech, freedom to assemble or civilian control of government, and that something behind the scenes jumps around local police and courts running undercover operations that are outright silly, or more like what one would expect in east germany.
Like at an open mic night attended by ~20 people, would you espect the MC to be an undercover cop? True story.
But if someone wants to talk about freedom or progress in america, you need to first talk with someone who tried and failed, and knows what you are up against. And if you read the intercept articles on the resistance to the pipelines, or black lives matter, it is going to confirm exactly what I am telling you.
People who want to cast people like myself, who are really trying to reduce it to the actual problem of rights and governance, who did survive intact, are i suspect from what I have seen the real danger to the system. It's not like after responding a hundred times peacefully to the most outrageous betrayals and insults is enough to get a pass, or somehow escape the web. No, proving that you are better and capable of rising above makes you *more* dangerous apparently from what I can tell, so you get *more* harassment. Which is also what is inhuman, you couldn't pay me to do this eternal investigation stuff to someone breaking a law they don't even know exists.
There is a book about amish war resisters to world war I, where this farmboy resisted the draft. They put him in leavenworth and beat him every day for months, then brought him out for a trial without a lawyer, and beat him during the trial, and he never fought back until he really felt he was finally within an inch of his life, and he finally took a hail mary swing at the sergeant beating him.
Then they said he wasn't a pacifist and gave him a life sentence for lying to escape the draft.
This is why the alien thing sounds right sometimes even though I have no evidence, because the system is so mean it feels inhuman when you come up against it.
If I am convincing you of something, *that* is the power I have that they don't like being outside of their control. I honestly think many of the undercovers I met thought they were being given wrong orders and honestly support bernie sanders and so tried to have fun with it and be as nice as they could, but there were others that did some extremely mean gasligthing shit to me and someone destroyed my car computer remotely which put me in real danger and is just cruel.
I am available for interviews, I'm a real person, I have a real site, I want to talk about this, I will answer all questions, people have to know what is going on. But do you think youtube is going to host this discussion? Do you think your patreon is going to work? lol nope.
Someone wrote this site is small and cops don't care etc, but the truth is you need to get the 'local' cop idea out of your head, it is now all fused together. And they are primarily concerned what 'intelligence', that means what intelligent people are doing, and in the clearnet I'm not sure if you've noticed but SN is that. This is a site intelligent people actually read from their desks like I have for years before I started posting. Yes even in the NSA, and I am actually trying to communicate with them intentionally citizen to citizen, to let them know what it like on the other end of their maniacal contraptions that focus incredible attention on someone like me, but none on people like Mr. Epstein. Which is to say, their shit is broken and they should do something about it plz thx.
Which is to say it's a living nightmare and I don't deserve it. Either admit I am brilliant and an important person who has a valuable contribution so I can live a life, or leave me alone. You can't just flag someone as a 'potential breakout artist' and then ruin their life so they can't ever live their dreams because they aren't going to lick your balls once they are successful. That' evil, that's antiamerican.
And that is what is going on.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @01:28AM
Careful what you wish for.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Saturday August 24 2019, @01:53PM
Crazy people don't write as well as I do.
I've talked with two actual psychologists in two different european countreis this year and neither thought I was crazy, so you are going to have to run with a different theory otherwise, well, you are the one who is crazy.
I have extensive writings from this year on my website, meme collections, drawings, and I invite everyone who thinks something is wrong to tell me so we can discuss the matter.
Should you have less than 10k words written this year and less than a fully functioning website you manage yourself, then the situation is worse for you, you're being outperformed by someone you think is crazy.
I remind you of MDC because MDC was also a good writer with a clear voice who was generous. Also because he is one of the few people like myself who has read the works of Robert Anton Wilson and Hunter S. Thompson, so he knows like I do that what passes for writing on the internet is generally not quite up to snuff.
MDC and I tickle your brain in the same way because we represent a dying tradition you have never encountered, I would respect this gift rather than tossing turds and labels around.
Because in my opinion that's what's crazy, I wrote something for you for free, and you don't have a single thing to say about any of the ideas, you just want to label the writer who you have never met. I'd get that looked at if I were you.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday August 23 2019, @04:06PM (3 children)
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra [wikipedia.org]
I had a job applicant once who put his website on his resume, directly linked from the landing page was his MK Ultra experiences blog wherein he detailed his decades of troubles at the hands of the MK Ultra program. One reading this extensive account can logically come to one of two conclusions. A) subject is an extremely paranoid nutjob, or B) subject actually has a good handle on reality, but dear God I want to stay as far away from that as possible.
Seeing as the material was so casually and easily linked from the subject's job application, I'm leaning toward A), but neither conclusion merits a callback for interview.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Bot on Friday August 23 2019, @04:16PM (1 child)
C) subject wants to show he is trying but he doesn't really want the job so he copies some material off the net and links to it discreetly.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday August 23 2019, @04:41PM
Like welfare punks in the UK, C) is always a possibility, but the blog was too extensive and too clearly written by the same person writing the resume.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Friday August 23 2019, @04:28PM
I am trying to walk the middle path.
But you're right, anyone who actually was on some list, is double/triple/googleplex screwed over because any attempts they make to get help are only going to isolate them further.
Which is why I know the people doing it must be sociopaths, and this should scare you.
That's why my response, after much thought is this thing called decultification.org and myfriendsandi.org, where we as civilians need to build networks resistant to a military/police apparatus invisibly taking over the civilian population, making everything into a permanent potempkin village, which is very close to what we have now.
One thing I have noticed, fake people trying to confuse such efforts to openly discuss these programs, and people with mental illness, have a near complete inability to separate irrelevant detail from the salient, making their prose nearly impossible to read.
If you read around on my website, for instance, I try to talk about actual constructive solutions and actual ideas, rather than some hagiography.
The discussion I am trying to start however is critical, there will be no free software, open culture, privacy, representative politics, if things continue the way they are going.
(Score: 2) by exaeta on Saturday August 24 2019, @03:18AM (16 children)
Why would the police give a fuck about this site? They have shit to deal with. If someone is attacking this site, it's probably some group associated with the DNC and a politician. Or possibly the NSA, they hate us tech nerds who expose them.
Seriously though your local police do not give a fuck.
The Government is a Bird
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 24 2019, @04:26AM (14 children)
Game wardens would be more likely given the guy who does most of the admining/coding.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Saturday August 24 2019, @02:09PM (13 children)
lol
plz check my response to the parent of this comment for my full response to his question, which I believe may also be helpful to you.
btw since we're here, I am trying to start this thing where people can debate online but I am really not a coder.
What if jmorriss and antarchus(sp) could have a SN(or elsewhere) debate where both sides are heard and publicized in a 5000 word back and forth with some loose rules?
I have for many years thought something like this should exist, but I decided to go for it and bought the domain globaldebate.net.
I think it is what the world needs, I'm tired of watching people scream at each other with no outlet for people with opposing views to engage each other besides watching propaganda surrogates on teevee.
What do you think?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 24 2019, @03:18PM (12 children)
Got the #884532 sub-tree open in a tab to do so later. You're a bit verbose for me to read unless I have a lot of attention stored up at the moment. Not "make me want to choke The Roomie to death for playing Jordan Peterson in the truck" verbose but more than I can usually read in one sitting. I can handle hours of stories or something that's informative but discussion leaves me wanting to scream "Get to the freaking point!" after two or three paragraphs.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Saturday August 24 2019, @04:38PM (11 children)
fair enough. im trying.
that is kindof the point of my idea though with globaldebate, we need to make people get to the point in confrontation with each other and give them a place to do so, so that we can find the middle ground easier and have interesting back and forth rather than having to choose which podium to to sit under.
and in our times which fabricated riot to be pro forma legally involved with...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday August 25 2019, @02:37PM (10 children)
Looking for your own platform for that or is that something you're saying you'd like added to SN?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Sunday August 25 2019, @10:02PM (9 children)
Both, either, all. It's an idea whose time has come.
I will eventually host such a site one way or the other, but for some reason I can see a 'soylent showdown' type of thing when two users are really back and forth in a thread and agree to a focused discussion about an issue. I think it could be productive and educational, and funny.
I think, believe, it is imperative to get people with opposing views talking more with each other and preaching less to the choir, I have this wild theory it might work against all of the pointless violence.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday August 26 2019, @03:33PM (8 children)
Could be done as a separate nexus but extra code would need to be added so only those involved in the debate could comment. Not a huge deal but not a write it during my morning coffee one day deal either.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Tuesday August 27 2019, @08:32AM (7 children)
That's about what I would estimate, I'm not a coder so it would take me forever.
What would it take to get that to happen? Could I somehow campaign in the community or make a formal proposal?
If I wanted to buiild just that, something like a forum but where it was designed to let people directly argue, what framework would be best? ruby?
At any rate, thanks for your time and consideration. I will continue to think the world is upside down to the extent that everyone wants to argue but the internet offers no efficient means to do so.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday August 27 2019, @10:33AM (6 children)
To get the coding done? It would just take me having the time (busy as hell offline) and ability (RSI issues) to code, which I likely won't have much of until near the holidays. To get it used on the site? An Ask Soylent story with enough interest that the eds start setting them up.
For long form discussion between two people? Manual HTML files probably. Unless you're doing a lot of them you wouldn't be saving all that much time or effort by using a framework.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Tuesday August 27 2019, @07:47PM (5 children)
Thanks for this.
One more question, why doesn't my journal work? I think I'd use it if it did.
Ok one more, how do you make a an ask soylent submission? Do I just make a normal one and call it ask SN?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday August 27 2019, @11:55PM (4 children)
It should. Are you getting an error of some sort?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Wednesday August 28 2019, @06:52AM (3 children)
Yeah when I post to my journal it never saves, journal is always empty after save.
I would like to post an ask SN also, how do I do that?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:23PM (2 children)
You certain you're hitting Save instead of Preview on the journal? No error messages or anything like that?
Just submit a story like normal with "Ask SN:" in the subject.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Thursday August 29 2019, @10:01AM (1 child)
Ah, to be public you have to allow comments. I had not done that so I think it didn't work. You might want to make that error message a little larger, but good deal.
Thank you for answering a couple questions, cheers.
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday August 29 2019, @10:32AM
Known bug, yep. It's on the very long list.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Saturday August 24 2019, @02:04PM
We are not talking about local police. Those don't exist anymore in the united states at least, they have been 'fused'. This is really bad, it means that local cops can now be called on to pull someone over because nearly anyone at the state or national level has a hunch or even wish to bother someone.
This site is of interest because intelligent people talk on it, and spies are primarily concerned with the ideas of intelligent people.
Basically they can let 100k people run totally amok on instagram for years at a time if they just knew no one in the group had an IQ over 115. They are in a contained system, they will never break out of it.
As soon as there is someone with an IQ of 130+ in that group, the 100k people become a threat to the powers that rule them, and a big one.
If they can simply track down all people with IQ above their arbitrary line, they can just monitor those people and the rest can break literally every law they want and it won't affect the system.
So if you have a website that attracts intelligent people, like SN, you are like a beacon for every spy agency in the world. They don't want to scroll through 100k rando repetetive comments from normal people, they want to track down the council of elders of their opponents, the last indian chief, etc and be the first to hear what they have to say about something and then either silence them or incorporate them into the propaganda system.
It is very complex, lookup what happens on Elgin airforce base and the executive orders prez Obama pushed through that allows the military to pay soldiers on bases to post on reddit and be reddit mods. It's a true disaster for america, really stupid. They are defending our opinions from ourselves, and calling it defense, it's nuts.
But they are doing it.
I drew some crude pictures so that anyone could understand it:
https://jmichaelhudson.net/4-important-drawings/ [jmichaelhudson.net]
I am writing partially for the human beings trapped on the other side of this system, so that they can see how it is being used by people like Mr. Epstein to attack people who believe in freedom. Which is to say, I am telling them that they can't think of themselves as the goodguys if their tools are used by the bad guys to attack the good guys, which is what is happening, right now, as we speak, and for whatever reason I find myself on the front line of this, which is also why I am posting here even though people will call me crazy, for my safety, and to minimize the chances that my considerable work is at some later date simply erased to make way for a more convenient narrative.