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I was going to post this to a particular story, but thought this might generate more attention and discussion as a general submission.
Seriously, what is going on with all these troll mods? Just because you disagree with someone, thus earning a "disagree" mod, does not mean that person is a "troll." To steal a definition from Urban Dictionary:
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
Just because you disagree with someone, does not mean they are trying to do the above. Be faster on the "disagree" and slower on the "troll." Under such abuse, it is hard to have a good discussion and, in itself, is trollish behavior by "generally disrupt[ing] normal on-topic discussion." Other than people disciplining themselves, a concerted effort to police such abuses, or making moderation logs public on the bottom of a comment where the score is shown now, I'm unsure of what to do about. As it stands, it is getting increasingly ridiculous to read what discussion is here on any topic remotely controversial, and is expanding outside of even those. It is starting to drive me away from the site, and I'm somewhat confident it is doing the same for others. I'd be interested to see what others think about the depth of the problem, if they even believe it even exists at all, and what solutions you all have for it.
[Ed note. This story is published exactly as received. First off, it bears repeating that complaining about moderations in the comments often leads (rightly) to an off-topic moderation. That is a contributing factor to my decision to run this story. Secondly, moderation is something that I on occasion have found I've fat-fingered and given a different moderation than expected. Thirdly, in the grand scheme of things, a comment's moderation is — relatively speaking — small potatoes. It is NOT a measure of your IQ or value as a human being. or standing in the community. Just accept that stuff happens and that as likely as not, someone will be along to moderate it the other way. Which is a good opportunity to say: PLEASE USE YOUR MOD POINTS! Lastly, if you think a comment was moderated in error, then send the CID (Comment ID) link e.g. "(#876543)" in an email to admin (at) soylentnews (dot) org. Keep in mind however that we are all volunteers here and there most likely will be a delay between when you send out an email and when we can get around to it. --martyb]
[Updated: 20190823_111312 UTC See comment from JR who far more precisely and eloquently expressed the idea I was attempting to. I concur with his assessment. If I want people to upmod a comment of mine that I believe was unfairly downmodded, then I need to be willing to upmod other's mis-modded comments. For perspective, so far this month, anywhere from ~150-~350 mod points were used in any given day. It bears repeating: use your mod points!]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Friday August 23 2019, @10:31AM (8 children)
Parent is already at 5 insightful, so I'll just repeat:
If a post is bringing up the same old trope - either side of a tired debate only tangentially related to the current discussion, particularly when there's nothing new or interesting in the post... is it anything other than trolling for a response "from the other side?"
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by isj on Friday August 23 2019, @11:32AM
If a post is only vaguely related to the topic and doesn't bring anything to the table I mod it off-topic.
I don't recall ever modding a post troll. Perhaps because I stay away from the US-centric political discussions.
I do wish for a "uninsightful" moderation sometimes when a poster clearly didn't even read the summary and just posted a knee-jerk reaction.
(Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Friday August 23 2019, @11:41AM
I would choose Off Topic.
And I agree that repetitive or inflammatory babbling is Trolling. But simply having a different, even extreme in your eyes, point of view is simply that - someone who has a different point of view. Those who live outside the USA see this all the time. Supporters in the US of either party claim that the other is at the opposite end of the political spectrum, whereas to those outside both US parties are to the right of centre although one is significantly more than the other. So if we sometimes express our political point of view we are seen as extremists or communists! Are we really trolling by expressing our viewpoints? I would argue not.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Thexalon on Friday August 23 2019, @01:53PM (5 children)
As someone who was hit just a couple days ago with a Troll mod that was pretty clearly a Disagree mod (others counteracted the downmod before I'd even noticed), and been mod-bombed in the past (and was targeted for a mod-bomb on the green site back in the day as well):
If your response to an on-topic viewpoint backed by science and reason is to immediately downmod it as "Troll", then I'm going to assume that you did so not because you believe what I said was trolling, nor because you have any interest in honest debate, but because you've abandoned debate in favor of an online attempt at argumentum ad baculum. If you find yourself reaching for the mod dropdown because there's a well-reasoned post that disagrees with the things you believe to be self-evidently true, then you might do well to see if you can respond effectively to the point, or consider questioning your self-evident truths. The main reason that is preferable is to reduce the odds you go through life believing in self-evident truths that aren't true.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday August 23 2019, @03:09PM (3 children)
When you call up Scott Bakula and get him to argue for you?
Oh. Joking aside, good point. Assuming the poster's references aren't from obscure and suspicious sources. And their refs actually support their viewpoint, not directly contradict them 2 sentences in lol
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday August 23 2019, @04:02PM
More generally, argumentum ad baculum is about applying intimidation rather than facts or reason to try to win a debate. "You say those things, I'm going to hurt you!" is the basic form.
If the posters' sources are obscure or suspicious, then counter their point with less obscure and less suspicious sources, or demonstrate that their sources are not to be trusted. For instance, if your opponent cited the Daily Stormer, you can either show that the specific story is wrong by demonstrating that their description of events fails to match the video footage of the event shown by MSNBC, CNN, the New York Times, Fox News, and the BBC, or you can argue that the Daily Stormer is a Neo-Nazi propaganda outlet and thus is not to be trusted on its own.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Friday August 23 2019, @04:05PM (1 child)
AKA argumentum ad mentulam.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 23 2019, @04:32PM
Sed mentula mea maior et crassior est.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday August 23 2019, @04:00PM
My "Troll Test" is this:
Does the poster appear, through the content of their writing, to be smelly, fat, and sitting under a bridge just waiting for innocent passers by so the poster can assault them with his boring, redundant, long winded recitation of sticky arguments which mostly serve to impede progress?
Posters' self regard for the amount and quality of scientific or otherwise reference material and research supposedly backing up their opinions, and likewise their self opinion of the reasonableness of their stated positions have little standing.
Maybe we could also add a "-1 do not enjoy this conversation" mod?
I still can't keep myself from occasionally feeding the trolls - if for no other reason than to get a more well rounded picture of their point of view.
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