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posted by martyb on Friday August 23 2019, @06:17AM   Printer-friendly
from the tragedy-of-the-commons dept.

I was going to post this to a particular story, but thought this might generate more attention and discussion as a general submission.

Seriously, what is going on with all these troll mods? Just because you disagree with someone, thus earning a "disagree" mod, does not mean that person is a "troll." To steal a definition from Urban Dictionary:

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Just because you disagree with someone, does not mean they are trying to do the above. Be faster on the "disagree" and slower on the "troll." Under such abuse, it is hard to have a good discussion and, in itself, is trollish behavior by "generally disrupt[ing] normal on-topic discussion." Other than people disciplining themselves, a concerted effort to police such abuses, or making moderation logs public on the bottom of a comment where the score is shown now, I'm unsure of what to do about. As it stands, it is getting increasingly ridiculous to read what discussion is here on any topic remotely controversial, and is expanding outside of even those. It is starting to drive me away from the site, and I'm somewhat confident it is doing the same for others. I'd be interested to see what others think about the depth of the problem, if they even believe it even exists at all, and what solutions you all have for it.

[Ed note. This story is published exactly as received. First off, it bears repeating that complaining about moderations in the comments often leads (rightly) to an off-topic moderation. That is a contributing factor to my decision to run this story. Secondly, moderation is something that I on occasion have found I've fat-fingered and given a different moderation than expected. Thirdly, in the grand scheme of things, a comment's moderation is — relatively speaking — small potatoes. It is NOT a measure of your IQ or value as a human being. or standing in the community. Just accept that stuff happens and that as likely as not, someone will be along to moderate it the other way. Which is a good opportunity to say: PLEASE USE YOUR MOD POINTS! Lastly, if you think a comment was moderated in error, then send the CID (Comment ID) link e.g. "(#876543)" in an email to admin (at) soylentnews (dot) org. Keep in mind however that we are all volunteers here and there most likely will be a delay between when you send out an email and when we can get around to it. --martyb]

[Updated: 20190823_111312 UTC See comment from JR who far more precisely and eloquently expressed the idea I was attempting to. I concur with his assessment. If I want people to upmod a comment of mine that I believe was unfairly downmodded, then I need to be willing to upmod other's mis-modded comments. For perspective, so far this month, anywhere from ~150-~350 mod points were used in any given day. It bears repeating: use your mod points!]


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  • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday August 28 2019, @12:12AM (11 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 28 2019, @12:12AM (#886511) Journal

    Incorrect information needs a rebuttal not a moderation.

    Sorry, mate, if you really believe that you are naive.
    I can bury you in one hour under an amount of incorrect information you will need a lifetime to "rebutte" - simply because it's cheap for me to lie and expensive to you to prove that I'm lying (it's called the Gish gallop [wikipedia.org])

    And can repeat the process every day - and you say this won't make me a troll? Do you give strong warranties that you'll revert every troll mod if I try?

    Not gonna happen.

    Fact: "You are abusing your position of power. It's clear you do, even if you do it unconsciously and believe you are doing a good thing"

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   2  
  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 28 2019, @12:48AM (9 children)

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday August 28 2019, @12:48AM (#886547) Homepage Journal

    And can repeat the process every day - and you say this won't make me a troll?

    Correct. That you're already a troll would render it irrelevant. Now if you were earnest in all of your postings it likewise would not make you a troll, only incorrect. You know, like you are right now. Trolling requires intent to wind people up, as you very well know.

    Fact: "You are abusing your position of power. It's clear you do, even if you do it unconsciously and believe you are doing a good thing"

    No, I'm abusing the meaning of the word "troll". And you a little bit for the pure kek of it.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday August 28 2019, @01:15AM (2 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 28 2019, @01:15AM (#886567) Journal

      Still an abuse, with consequences made possible only by your position. So, bottom line, you are still abusing it.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:06AM (1 child)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:06AM (#886593) Homepage Journal

        The day an admin can't mock a user for saying/doing something bloody stupid is the day every admin across the world retires.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:16AM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:16AM (#886595) Journal

          Meh, for some values of admin.

          You'll have to demonstrate your claim that what I said is bloody stupid before mocking me, have you not?

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday August 29 2019, @03:01AM (5 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 29 2019, @03:01AM (#887147) Journal

      Now if you were earnest in all of your postings it likewise would not make you a troll, only incorrect.

      I don't read people minds, I can't know if the other person is earnest or actually trolling; even more so on a forum (see Poe's law for example).
      As such, I don't have any moral qualms in applying a "Troll" mod after I'm seeing that behavior over years and in spite of arguments demonstrating the falsity.
      And no, I'm not troll-modding genuinely expressed opinions - i.e. "I think/believe", "to my mind", etc.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday August 29 2019, @04:17AM (4 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday August 29 2019, @04:17AM (#887168) Homepage Journal

        You don't need to read minds, you just need to have interacted with another human being once or twice.

        And no, I'm not troll-modding genuinely expressed opinions - i.e. "I think/believe", "to my mind", etc.

        I'd personally rather you were. Factually incorrect but genuinely believed comments do contribute positively to the conversation because they invite correction. Kind of like Keynesian economic theory but it actually works. They should either receive that correction by a comment so that the whole community can benefit from your information or left alone if you're too lazy. Hiding them only allows the stupid to fester.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday August 29 2019, @05:07AM (3 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 29 2019, @05:07AM (#887173) Journal

          You don't need to read minds, you just need to have interacted with another human being once or twice.

          Should I understand you place jmorris outside human race?
          'Cause his statements on facts are lies quite often, I'm simply tired to assume he's believing so falsities and obstinately refuse to correct them.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday August 29 2019, @10:31AM (2 children)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday August 29 2019, @10:31AM (#887228) Homepage Journal

            You're saying you don't have the stamina for rational debate so you try to silence the opposition? Yeah, I figured as much.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday August 29 2019, @10:51AM (1 child)

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 29 2019, @10:51AM (#887232) Journal

              You're saying you don't have the stamina for rational debate so you try to silence the opposition?

              Well, do you? I didn't find any of your rebuttals to jmorris lies.
              So, what is it: you believe him or don't consider truth important or don't have the stamina yourself or ... what?

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
  • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 29 2019, @01:14AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 29 2019, @01:14AM (#887090)

    Sorry, mate, if you really believe that you are naive.

    He really is. "He may talk like an idiot, and act like an idiot, but don't let that fool you, he really is an idiot." Groucho Marx, Duck Soup, 1933. Fascist days, if you know what I mean.