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I was going to post this to a particular story, but thought this might generate more attention and discussion as a general submission.
Seriously, what is going on with all these troll mods? Just because you disagree with someone, thus earning a "disagree" mod, does not mean that person is a "troll." To steal a definition from Urban Dictionary:
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
Just because you disagree with someone, does not mean they are trying to do the above. Be faster on the "disagree" and slower on the "troll." Under such abuse, it is hard to have a good discussion and, in itself, is trollish behavior by "generally disrupt[ing] normal on-topic discussion." Other than people disciplining themselves, a concerted effort to police such abuses, or making moderation logs public on the bottom of a comment where the score is shown now, I'm unsure of what to do about. As it stands, it is getting increasingly ridiculous to read what discussion is here on any topic remotely controversial, and is expanding outside of even those. It is starting to drive me away from the site, and I'm somewhat confident it is doing the same for others. I'd be interested to see what others think about the depth of the problem, if they even believe it even exists at all, and what solutions you all have for it.
[Ed note. This story is published exactly as received. First off, it bears repeating that complaining about moderations in the comments often leads (rightly) to an off-topic moderation. That is a contributing factor to my decision to run this story. Secondly, moderation is something that I on occasion have found I've fat-fingered and given a different moderation than expected. Thirdly, in the grand scheme of things, a comment's moderation is — relatively speaking — small potatoes. It is NOT a measure of your IQ or value as a human being. or standing in the community. Just accept that stuff happens and that as likely as not, someone will be along to moderate it the other way. Which is a good opportunity to say: PLEASE USE YOUR MOD POINTS! Lastly, if you think a comment was moderated in error, then send the CID (Comment ID) link e.g. "(#876543)" in an email to admin (at) soylentnews (dot) org. Keep in mind however that we are all volunteers here and there most likely will be a delay between when you send out an email and when we can get around to it. --martyb]
[Updated: 20190823_111312 UTC See comment from JR who far more precisely and eloquently expressed the idea I was attempting to. I concur with his assessment. If I want people to upmod a comment of mine that I believe was unfairly downmodded, then I need to be willing to upmod other's mis-modded comments. For perspective, so far this month, anywhere from ~150-~350 mod points were used in any given day. It bears repeating: use your mod points!]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Friday August 23 2019, @03:24PM (4 children)
So I just re-read the mod guidelines just to be sure it wasn't listed. And it's a serious question.
Both, as I understand (and may misunderstand) the terms are posts which are judged to not add to the discussion. Both, when used, are judged as attempts to provoke reactions and not represent the truth.
The only difference I can see is a Troll either labels a person or a behavior, and Flamebait labels the post or the behavior. I always understood flamebaiting as the behavior which trolls engage in, so including troll as a separate option to me means one is labeling the person.
I also think they are the two moderations that people would likely have disagreements of what they mean. Every other mod one could disagree that it applies to a given situation but everyone has a definable idea of what counts as Interesting, Informative, Offtopic, etc.
I suppose flamebait is meant to draw anger or hostility where a troll might be trying to draw any type of emotional response (sympathy, whatever) that the troll doesn't really care about. But really I don't think about distinguishing them? Can someone help me out to what I'm missing in regard to distinguishing Troll from Flamebait if that isn't it?
And maybe we need a Shirley mod. As in, not sure if you're trolling or baiting but Shirley You Can't Be Serious? (More strong than "I disagree with you" but lacking proof of intentional provocation....)
This sig for rent.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday August 23 2019, @04:41PM (3 children)
Troll: Man, I miss Beta.
Flamebait: So, what's this whole vi vs. emacs thing about anyway?
Which is to say, the type of butthurt they are trying to bring about; one-sided or two-sided.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday August 24 2019, @12:52AM
Yeah, everyone knows Nano is the One True Editor. Vi is a form of solo masochism and Emacs, well, it's an interesting shell but it needs a decent editor :D
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Saturday August 24 2019, @02:25AM (1 child)
I don't think that's an important distinction to make while modding. My understanding is that Troll is strictly a superset of Flamebait, if we admit that Flamebait refers exclusively to baiting both sides [1], Troll still refers to all types of baiting.
[1] This does not seem to be a commonly accepted restriction on the use of flamebait:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/flamebait [wiktionary.org]
https://www.techopedia.com/definition/398/flamebait [techopedia.com]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_(Internet)#Flame_trolling [wikipedia.org]
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(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 24 2019, @04:31AM
It's okay, we're not looking over your shoulder to make sure you pick the most accurate one. That's for pedants in moderation discussions. I'd hate to deprive anyone of their hobby. *grin*
My rights don't end where your fear begins.