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from the See-dick-mod.-See-dick-sock-mod.-See-dick-get-banned.-Don't-be-a-dick dept.
Labor Day:
In observance of Labor Day (a federal holiday in the United States celebrated on the first Monday in September) I am hereby inviting the SoylentNews editorial staff to enjoy a three-day weekend — Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. Stories will be scheduled and released on a weekend-story-spacing schedule. The holiday marks the unofficial end of summer and it often marked by parades, sales, cookouts, and the like.
These volunteers give selflessly of their spare time to try and make sure we keep the stories coming. Please join me in thanking them for their generous sacrifice of spare time and experience to keep those stories coming!
Tor:
(short for The Onion Router) is in the process of rolling out an updated protocol. ThIs update is NOT compatible with prior versions. SoylentNews has had support from the early days of the site (thanks to NCommander, IIRC). As nobody on staff has experience in this area, our support will cease at any time - the TOR site is saying October. It was laudable at the time. Unfortunately, its more recent use seems to have been primarily by spammers. As such, we could lose access to Tor at anytime as our network "neighbors" either upgrade or find themselves no longer "adjacent" to back-level versions like ours is. You can still access this site using TOR with our normal URL.
Sock Mods
We have been methodically identifying and shutting down sockpuppet accounts. These are NOT allowed. Attempts to bypass the will of the community by controlling multiple accounts is forbidden. One user, one account. Do NOT use another account (or accounts) to upmod one-or-more accounts that you control. If you do not like getting downmods, take a look at the comments you post. Sure, occasionally, someone might mis-moderate a comment by accident (heck, *I* have done it!) In our experience, such errors are generally rare and are frequently followed at some point by others, offsetting moderations.
So: "Sock mods" are being tracked. We are methodically investigating cases. Accounts are being disabled, and never in isolation. It takes agreement by at least two admins, and usually more, for any action to be taken.
If you are generally a positive contributor to the site, such impacts to your karma are usually just "line noise" in the grand scheme of things.
Mod bombs:
In a similar vein, if you disagree with someone, do not attempt to silence them by using multiple accounts to mod their comments down.
We have seen cases of both "mod bombs" and "sock mods". We have held back on taking action until we are certain. Any action taken is first confirmed by at least one other staff member. Complaining about moderation is OFF TOPIC and tends to get moderated as such.
Limits
We've previously tried to set concrete limits. "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile." I have personally witnessed cases where one account downmodded another account 4 times in one day. For ten days in a row! That was just enough to avoid getting moderations reversed, but certainly enough to show a concerted effort to moderate the commenter rather than just the comment.
This will no longer be tolerated.
Admins can see who has moderated whom. We talk among ourselves. We discuss cases that come up. It's pretty simple, really: "Don't be a jerk!"
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Sunday September 05 2021, @10:42PM (3 children)
From time to time I've considered writing an epistolary novel or novella or maybe just short story consisting of several characters communicating with each other entirely with soylent news posts. To have the proper impact, I would have to make several accounts for these fictional characters so that they could interact with each other realistically. Of course if real people start commenting on these posts they would be involving themselves into the story.
No sockpuppet modding, at least none outside the bounds of the story.
Should even this be prohibited? If so, I should maybe give up on my plans.
-- hendrik
(Score: 2) by martyb on Monday September 06 2021, @12:29AM
That sounds quite interesting. And also quite out of the normal story submission system. Which suggests certain alternative mechanisms to me.
This could be fun!
We are busy right now, but send an email to me ( martyb (at) soylentnews (dot) org ) with more details and we can discuss it.
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 06 2021, @01:19AM (1 child)
I did something like that a very long time ago. Basically I started a thread as an ersatz personal blog, in the middle of somebody's customer support forum. I'd split it up, posting about events and adventures, with imaginary goals and themes. And then somebody'd jump in and affect the flow, then I'd adapt to that, and if it was fun, I'd go their way. I mean, I was gonna let the ogre live, but they said to attack it, so...
It only required one account. But it was a different userbase then, and there were no AC posts. But it was fun, and I think the company liked it.
It's Sunday, I'm taking a little time off from Word2000.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 07 2021, @05:56PM
I was going to add more, about using a single account, but changing the appearance to act as another character, and to... nevermind, it'll never work. AC posts are almost a worse problem than those who register and take it as a license to drive their bandwagon through the parlor. It's truly a shame that we can't have nice things any more.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Monday September 06 2021, @04:23AM
I would like to present the SN team with the META Editorial Transparency Award.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 06 2021, @05:41PM (1 child)
2 best posts on this topic here https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=44739&page=1&cid=1175033#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] and how to beat sockpuppet downmod bombers here https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=44739&page=1&cid=1175036#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] when sockpuppets downmod bomb you unjusitifiably (often the forums staff no less who generate controversy and use your right to defend yourself against you by downmodding you. Weak easily seen through "pseudo psychology" on their part, but nobody ever accused them of being smart, hahaha). It is how to 'fight the power' (no real power, only illusions of majority rules by fake name using fucks with fake do nothing loser lives) by showing how powerless they are and how to do it in several ways that really work. So much for downmod points sockpuppeteer loaded forums losers infesting them. See how simple it is to run them dry of downmod points of losers who do it behind fake names for their fake fuck useless lives making them and forums admins/moderators out to be the powerless fools they are against someone who has more ability and understanding of computers than they do or ever will.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 06 2021, @05:58PM
Hilarious! What they bitch about they did: Downmod bomb to try "hide" facts about both sockpuppeteers and shitbrain low skill wannabe admins https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=44739&page=1&cid=1175033#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] and here to a replier https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=44739&page=1&cid=1175036#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] and so it was posted again to prove a point how POWERLESS and EFFETE "moderators/admins" REALLY are as well as the sockpuppets they THEMSELVES employ. Yes that is how it really is and these posts all prove it for all to see. How embarassing for SOYLENT NEWS and SLASHDOT the houses of chattering dolt underachievers online that will never amount to a damn thing in this life. Not too effective vs. the methods extolled there now is it? Nope, I am reposting this to make a point FACT proving how easy it is to override the bullshit of "forums moderation" and sockpuppeteer scumbag whimps and weasels https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=44739&page=1&cid=1175047#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] and here too https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=44739&page=1&cid=1175048#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] which no matter how they try "forums sliding" burying it? This post re-exposes once more easily. Yes, they will downmod those posts too but it only proves their REAL NATURE of being scumbag do nothing loser weasels and nothing more.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 06 2021, @06:13PM
2 best posts on this topic here downmod bomb hidden (or so they think) but shown again now https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=44739&page=1&cid=1175033#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] and how to beat sockpuppet downmod bombers exhausting them of their downmod points here https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=44739&page=1&cid=1175036#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] when sockpuppets downmod bomb you unjusitifiably (often the forums staff no less who generate controversy and use your right to defend yourself against you by downmodding you. Weak easily seen through "pseudo psychology" on their part, but nobody ever accused them of being smart, hahaha). It is how to 'fight the power' (no real power, only illusions of majority rules by fake name using fucks with fake do nothing loser lives) by showing how powerless they are and how to do it in several ways that really work. So much for downmod points sockpuppeteer loaded forums losers infesting them. See how simple it is to run them dry of downmod points of losers who do it behind fake names for their fake fuck useless lives making them and forums admins/moderators out to be the powerless fools they are against someone who has more ability and understanding of computers than they do or ever will. Hypocrites are easy to expose and to laugh at and believe you me, everyone IS laughing at the downmod bombing sockpuppets trying to HIDE FACTS in those posts. I can repost them at any time too. Time is on MY side, losers. Facts also. Facts you PROVE FOR ME, lol, no less. You show your LOW crude hypocrite natures bitching about downmod bombing? You ALL DO IT bullshitters. You prove it for me you fake name using lowlife fucks.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 06 2021, @06:15PM
2 best posts on this topic here downmod bomb hidden (or so they think) but shown again now https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=44739&page=1&cid=1175033#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] and how to beat sockpuppet downmod bombers exhausting them of their downmod points here https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=44739&page=1&cid=1175036#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] when sockpuppets downmod bomb you unjusitifiably (often the forums staff no less who generate controversy and use your right to defend yourself against you by downmodding you. Weak easily seen through "pseudo psychology" on their part, but nobody ever accused them of being smart, hahaha). It is how to 'fight the power' (no real power, only illusions of majority rules by fake name using fucks with fake do nothing loser lives) by showing how powerless they are and how to do it in several ways that really work. So much for downmod points sockpuppeteer loaded forums losers infesting them. See how simple it is to run them dry of downmod points of losers who do it behind fake names for their fake fuck useless lives making them and forums admins/moderators out to be the powerless fools they are against someone who has more ability and understanding of computers than they do or ever will. Hypocrites are easy to expose and to laugh at and believe you me, everyone IS laughing at the downmod bombing sockpuppets trying to HIDE FACTS in those posts. I can repost them at any time too. Time is on MY side, losers. Facts also. Facts you PROVE FOR ME, lol, no less. You show your LOW crude hypocrite natures bitching about downmod bombing? You ALL DO IT bullshitters. You prove it for me you fake name using lowlife fucks.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 06 2021, @06:32PM
2 best posts on this topic here downmod bomb hidden (or so they think) but shown again now https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=44739&page=1&cid=1175033#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] and how to beat sockpuppet downmod bombers exhausting them of their downmod points here https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=44739&page=1&cid=1175036#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] when sockpuppets downmod bomb you unjusitifiably (often the forums staff no less who generate controversy and use your right to defend yourself against you by downmodding you. Weak easily seen through "pseudo psychology" on their part, but nobody ever accused them of being smart, hahaha). It is how to 'fight the power' (no real power, only illusions of majority rules by fake name using fucks with fake do nothing loser lives) by showing how powerless they are and how to do it in several ways that really work. So much for downmod points sockpuppeteer loaded forums losers infesting them. See how simple it is to run them dry of downmod points of losers who do it behind fake names for their fake fuck useless lives making them and forums admins/moderators out to be the powerless fools they are against someone who has more ability and understanding of computers than they do or ever will. Hypocrites are easy to expose and to laugh at and believe you me, everyone IS laughing at the downmod bombing sockpuppets trying to HIDE FACTS in those posts. I can repost them at any time too. Time is on MY side, losers. Facts also. Facts you PROVE FOR ME, lol, no less. You show your LOW crude hypocrite natures bitching about downmod bombing? You ALL DO IT bullshitters. You prove it for me you fake name using lowlife fucks. Funniest part is not a single one of you has managed anything of note in computers. Not a single one. Prove otherwise. You can't. You are HUMAN WASTE FAILS chattering fools on forums, nothing more.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 06 2021, @06:35PM
2 best posts on this topic here downmod bomb hidden (or so they think) but shown again now https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=44739&page=1&cid=1175033#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] and how to beat sockpuppet downmod bombers exhausting them of their downmod points here https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=44739&page=1&cid=1175036#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] when sockpuppets downmod bomb you unjusitifiably (often the forums staff no less who generate controversy and use your right to defend yourself against you by downmodding you. Weak easily seen through "pseudo psychology" on their part, but nobody ever accused them of being smart, hahaha). It is how to 'fight the power' (no real power, only illusions of majority rules by fake name using fucks with fake do nothing loser lives) by showing how powerless they are and how to do it in several ways that really work. So much for downmod points sockpuppeteer loaded forums losers infesting them. See how simple it is to run them dry of downmod points of losers who do it behind fake names for their fake fuck useless lives making them and forums admins/moderators out to be the powerless fools they are against someone who has more ability and understanding of computers than they do or ever will. Hypocrites are easy to expose and to laugh at and believe you me, everyone IS laughing at the downmod bombing sockpuppets trying to HIDE FACTS in those posts. I can repost them at any time too. Time is on MY side, losers. Facts also. Facts you PROVE FOR ME, lol, no less. You show your LOW crude hypocrite natures bitching about downmod bombing? You ALL DO IT bullshitters. You prove it for me you fake name using lowlife fucks. Funniest part is not a single one of you has managed anything of note in computers. Not a single one. Prove otherwise. You can't. You are HUMAN WASTE FAILS chattering fools on forums, nothing more.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 06 2021, @08:25PM (6 children)
I've asked this question but never received an answer. As I understand it, each comment has a SUBNETID and IPID associated with it. These are hashed, and I believe Slashdot used MD5 for this purpose. Although this does prevent editors from immediately seeing the IP responsible for posting comments, it is easy to determine the actual IP responsible for posting a comment. There are 2^24 /24 subnets, or roughly 16.7 million. It is simple to use brute force to find which subnet is responsible for posting a comment. Even this provides a considerable amount of information about who is responsible for posting a comment. This is likely sufficient to determine a geographic location and perhaps other information about a person. Once the /24 is identified, there is a search space of 256 addresses to determine the actual IP responsible, a very simple task.
SN needs to be clear about how long this information is retained in the database. I've asked before, but did not receive an answer. It is a serious privacy issue, and one that could leave users at risk if this information is retained in perpetuity.
Has anyone noticed that youtube-dl has not been updated in three months? Although there has been no statement from the developers, people have speculated that the RIAA may have targeted individual developers because it proved impractical to target Github. This is speculation, but a real possibility given the lack of updates to the project. If I posted information about how youtube-dl works or how to extract Widevine level 3 keys, which could very much be on topic in some discussions, should I have to worry forever that an RIAA or MPAA lawyer could unmask me if they decide the information should be censored? There are plenty of comments that would not be considered abusive, but where anonymity would still be needed. One cannot fully trust that VPNs and many other anonymizing services are truly anonymous. How does you really know if your VPN service is logging your traffic?
Users deserve to know how long SN retains IPIDs and SUBNETIDs. As I have explained, it is a serious privacy issue. SN has stated that IPs are not retained for an extended period of time, but it is not clear that the aforementioned derived information is deleted as readily, if at all.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 06 2021, @11:40PM
https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp [github.com] seems to be where all the action is.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday September 07 2021, @06:32AM (1 child)
You claim you've asked this before and not been given an answer - do you have any evidence to prove that claim? Dates? IRC logs? Post IDs?
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 07 2021, @11:47PM
I'm pretty sure I responded to one of your comments in TMB's "I don't dig disco" journal. That journal was one of the casualties when the site went down. I checked back a few times and I believe the comment got modded up to +3 or +4, but nobody gave an answer. I didn't say there's anything nefarious about not replying, nor do I mean to imply as such. I just think it's important to know how SN handles information that could, in principle, be used to personally identify me. Thank you for attempting to answer my question. I do appreciate your reply.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by janrinok on Tuesday September 07 2021, @08:14AM (2 children)
Why, are you planning world domination using this site? If you are you are then you are doing it wrong. If you are saying things that you know you shouldn't be saying then the correct thing to do would be to stop saying them. We respect privacy, but we do not claim that we are using unbreakable ciphers that nobody else could ever crack. And if you are so concerned about being identified, I am assuming that you are also using both TAILS, and therefore TOR, to add more layers of security to your ever-so-secret comments to a predominantly STEM-based website. As someone who is so concerned with his/her personal security, you will be aware that, certainly in the western world, an IP address does NOT equate to a person in a court of law. Furthermore, I am hoping that you are not using a smartphone device to access the site as they can be identified to a specific user and also give the device's location.
I am assuming therefore that, in addition to always using TAILS, TOR and posting anonymously, that you are also using internet cafes, VPNs and using techniques to mask your writing style. Equally as important, are you sure that you are never even hinting that you have a specific political viewpoint, or are associated with any particular country or region in the world, or you have a specific post or profession? Have you held a specific rank or should you be addressed using a title e.g doctor, professor, minister? Do you log in to the site with random time patterns so nobody can deduce which time zones are used the most? Do you ever access our IRC channels and compromise all the things you have done in 'secret' on the site by chatting about them openly in full view of the world? Do you maintain the same levels of security awareness on IRC too? If you are always posting anonymously and not compromising your comments then you are very unlikely to be identifiable.
And each submission, story, moderation,...
Lets assume that we are using the same - I'm not saying that I know it to be true - but simply an assumption. Are the hashes raw MD5 hashes? Or do we use a salt? If we use a salt, what is it? I'll leave it to others to answer your other questions - not because I am being evasive but simply because I do not know the answers.
Finally, how will somebody get the records of the site's activity? If they are recording every hit on our site then you are already doomed - those organisations have capabilities that we could never defeat. They can obtain a warrant and seize our servers and then where would you be? Or do you believe that we are selling this important information and that the 6-monthly plea to help cover our costs is nothing more than a ruse to hide the fact that we are actually sitting on a luxury yacht in the Caribbean?
We have to maintain a working database that links together submissions, stories, comments, moderations, accounts, and a whole host of data that you haven't even imagined. But that is nothing nefarious - it is simply necessary to run a site such as this one. Our code is evolved from slashcode, so we are doing nothing that hasn't been done for 20 years or more. I never see an IP address; I am not concerned with who you are in the real world, only with what you do on this site. If that threatens your perceived security then you are on the wrong site.
We protect privacy but we do not make, nor have we ever made, any promises that we might not be able to keep regarding the security of information that you really shouldn't be divulging.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 08 2021, @12:10AM (1 child)
This really isn't relevant. The search space is small enough that, regardless of the hash algorithm, it's easy to brute force the subnet and IP.
This isn't helpful. It's fundamentally no different from saying that you shouldn't need privacy unless you have something to hide. It's a fallacious statement.
I provided some context about what types of content I was concerned about, specifically youtube-dl and obtaining Widevine keys from browsers. Both of these things have received DMCA takedowns on Github. If you think that people "shouldn't be saying" these things, then perhaps you need to reevaluate your standards. Using the DMCA and legal threats to silence technical discussion is nothing new. How many stories did Slashdot run about DeCSS a couple of decades ago? I use these examples because I think the majority of readers here would think it should be legal to share information and code relating to these topics, yet the RIAA and MPAA lawyers actively say otherwise.
In the context of this discussion, it's pretty clear that I'm referring to a lawyer obtaining a subpoena for this data.
I never said that you were doing anything malicious. I understand why that information is needed for a period of time to make the site run. I don't question that at all. But it's fair to ask how long that information is retained.
Your comment seems to imply a malicious intent on my part for asking the question, that I must be up to no good if I'm concerned how long the data is retained. For a normally pro-privacy crowd, I don't think that's a fair assessment. As I made clear, I'm not concerned that you are doing something malicious with the data. But I do question what an overzealous RIAA or MPAA lawyer might do, for example, if I chose to discuss technical topics like how to download video streams.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday September 08 2021, @09:16AM
Not true. If the salt is unique for each IP then it is far more difficult to build rainbow tables. Choosing a salt is not difficult to do, nor is storing it away from the IP itself. But if the site is seized by law enforcement then there is nothing that can be done to prevent the IPs being determined - unless you are using TOR or something similar which would only compromise the TOR exit node.
If by publishing them you are inviting legal sanctions in any form in either the US (where the site is hosted) or in your own country, then you would be responsible for your actions and perhaps you shouldn't be publishing them. Furthermore, if you were to do so you would be risking the shutdown of the site. We cannot afford to contest a DMCA takedown or any other request issued by the courts; we would have to comply or face legal sanctions. These are all things that an editor must consider when publishing a story. What you do in your journal however, is entirely your responsibility.
The IP addresses are given as much protection as we can. As I understand it, only a very small handful of people have direct access to such information - and I am not one of them.
Then we would have to hand it over. And I assume that it would also include back-ups which mean that data that has been deleted from the current database might still be compromised from backup copies. Do not rely on SN to provide you with absolute security - we only offer as much privacy as we can.
That is not intended. However, if some organisation is searching for you as an individual then you are responsible for ensuring that you have taken every reasonable precaution to hide or disguise your identity. It isn't always necessary to have the IP address before beginning a search for an individual if there are enough clues around to point someone in the right direction.
There are plenty of people on this site, myself included, who have divulged sufficient information to enable a reasonable search effort to identify them. Personally, I am unconcerned, but it is worth pointing such things out.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 07 2021, @04:52AM
Your problems on this site is what happens when failures in life using fake names invade. You get Sockpuppet scumbags with 10 accounts or more whose lives are so miserable all they can do is "bolster their self-esteem" by up moderating themself or down moderating others who get the better of them or expose them which your forums moderators\administrators have even noted and done getting rid of their low life kind. I mean, seriously: What kind of low life loser does that? The ones around here and on slashdot. Probably every forum in fact. I've known forums admins and they have told me since the late 90's this goes on. WoW! Truly pitiful. The ones doing it who are reading this? Seriously. Get a life! The mods\admins here know it goes on from what I've read they've seen already by droves and I pity them the most having to deal with such pitiful crap from scum that do it though you can bet your mods\admins also do it too.