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This is a post that I have suspected that I was going to have to write since late December last year.
You will now know that SoylentNews.org is closing down on 30 June but things have not been standing still behind the scenes since we first became aware of NCommander's decision at the end of last week. In fact, it has been a very busy weekend.
A small group of existing staff are looking at alternative possibilities for a 'replacement' site to keep the flow of stories going and allowing discussions to continue. This is a big task, especially in the 38 days remaining in which to try to achieve it. There are several possibilities which spring to mind, Pipedot for example. I have reached out to Bryan but have not yet received a response. However, things as not as straightforward as they seem. The pipecode is written in Php-5 which some of you will realise is no longer supported. We do not want to become dependant on old software which cannot be maintained into the future; that lesson has been taken aboard and reinforced by NCommander's explanation regarding his decision announced today. There are other options but at the moment it is still a search for what is available out there today which also appears maintainable into the future.
But the first thing we need to know is "Is there still sufficient interest in having a discussion site such as ours?" Do you, the community, still want to have your daily dose of stories and the ability to exchange views with many others on this site? Are there any community members who would be willing to join us in trying to establish such a site? Your views are crucial to everything that we do over the coming days and weeks. So please let us know what you think about whether a site is still required with all the alternative technology available today that simply didn't exist 9 years ago. What form should a new site take? What changes to how we operate are essential for you to continue to remain interested in the future site?
Of course, it cannot be a mirror image of what we have today - which many will see as a good thing! But I hope that we would be able to transfer existing accounts, usernames and passwords directly to any new site that we create. We would also have to start with a relatively simple site and build on that over time.
At the end of the day we would have to restart the voluntary subscriptions but not immediately. We can raise some funds to see us get established without the requirement of a financial commitment from the community. Subscriptions were always sufficient in the past and I don't see why that would not be the case in the future too. The fact that we currently have enough to keep this site going until next year bears witness to that. We have also found that we can significantly reduce our running costs based on our current community rather than being ready for a major stream of new members which never materialises. I have no grandiose ideas of becoming a huge site employing our own journalists but just a community that enjoys the discussions as we have been doing for several years. Nevertheless, we would also be trying to build on our existing community which is beginning to happen on this site now that things have settled down.
So don't hold back - let us know what you think.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Gaaark on Monday May 22, @08:47PM
Lack of time and skills: this is why I can't have nice things, lol.
Person-anally, here's what i want, in order.
1. I want nothing to change.
2. I want very little to change.
3. Don't change a thing.
4. Change nothing.
5. Get off muh lawn! :)
AND, thanks to everyone for all they did and do.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by iWantToKeepAnon on Monday May 22, @09:02PM
"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." -- Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
(Score: 1) by TomTheFighter on Monday May 22, @09:34PM
and expression of carbon dioxide.
Long live Soylent News in whatever form it reincarnates as. I do like the idea of a more mobile phone friendly design though ( can't belief I wrote given how much I hate the dang things ).
Tom
(Score: 4, Informative) by Mykl on Monday May 22, @10:25PM
I enjoy SN, and it's one of the very, very few sites that I visit daily. I've submitted a few stories over the years, but am mostly a reader.
I am not overly fussed about the technology stack that sits behind the site, but am keen to ensure that a moderation system is in place to promote good content (and knock out bad content)
(Score: 2, Insightful) by AlwaysNever on Monday May 22, @11:44PM
I don't want to move to anywhere, and I don't buy. the "technical debt" reasons.
Apache 2.2 and mod_perl are good enough, and even better: they are warranted not to change. Just lock down the site, and let it run as is.
Make backups periodically, and bring in new editors to post new/more things. A couple system admins an 8 or 10 editors should do. No need for any devs, as the site SHOULD NOT change.
NCommander wants to kill the site, instead of transferring it to more willing people.
I will not go anywhere else, I will stay here until it sinks, hopefully it will not.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Tuesday May 23, @01:45AM (2 children)
I looked very briefly at pipedot. Its code is online at github, and seems to be written in php.
I did not see any posts at pipedot.org that were more recent than 2016. Is it dead? Or am I looking in the wrong place?
If, as janrinok mentioned, it is a syndicated source for other sites to draw from, I might very well be looking in the wrong place to see what's there.
-- hendrik
(Score: 3, Interesting) by janrinok on Tuesday May 23, @07:11AM (1 child)
It is also written in a version of php that is no longer supported. That is immediately a potential red flag because that is how we ended up in this situation. Now maybe there is work going on in the background, but if it isn't in the git repo then how do we discover it? I have emailed Bryan but I have not seen a response yet.
It is still an option under consideration though. We just have to find some php programmers because I do not think that somebody looking at the language for the first time is necessarily the best person to be upgrading, modifying and maintaining the code.
(Score: 4, Informative) by dalek on Tuesday May 23, @09:08AM
I've done a fair amount of PHP coding at various times, though not especially recently. The language is familiar to me, though I'd need to brush up on things if I were to do anything with a recent version. Overall, I think a PHP-based solution is better than sticking with Perl, though other alternatives may be available.
I took a look at the Pipedot code. I think it's better organized than Slash/Rehash, in that it's more intuitive where various functions are located. That's good, because I've looked at Rehash and didn't think it was obvious where in the code some functionality resided. Pipecode seems to be an improvement in that respect. However, it's a huge red flag for me that there appears to be no documentation whatsoever. Yes, there's information about how to install and configure a new Pipecode install, but the code appears to have zero documentation. I couldn't find any discussion of how the code works, and I noticed that there's pretty much zero comments in the source code other than the license at the top of every file and actual code that's been commented out. I've also noticed that while the formatting is reasonable, there's some inconsistency in the conventions of some things like quotes throughout the code. It also seems like there's less flexibility in the actual formatting of the site, where some things are hard coded in places where perhaps they shouldn't be. That might make it annoying to change the design of the site. There are probably other things I'd catch if I looked through the code further, but it certainly looks like there are some potential security issues that would need to be addressed. One of the very few comments mentioned that a piece of code was unsafe and would need to be improved in the future.
You'll also want to rethink some of the policies in Pipecode. For example, I believe images can be posted in some places like journals. On Slashdot, that would pretty much guarantee that the goatse.cx guy's portrait would appear regularly on the site. But it certainly could be abused for worse things than that. At least one time on Slashdot, trolls got a story accepted that linked to one of their servers. Upon getting accepted, the trolls made the page display goatse.cx a small percentage of the time. Because of some of the malicious behavior here, I think I'd be wary of some of the default policies. Slash stores these in a database, but it looks like Pipecode has these hard coded elsewhere in the code. I'm not a fan of this design decision, and it might be a priority to change this before deploying the code.
That's my initial impression from looking at Pipecode for an hour or two. Your opinion may vary. It's not a bad code base, but I have concerns about a number of design decisions and the almost complete lack of documentation.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest just whinge about SN.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23, @02:35AM (2 children)
Make UBB and call it a day.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Tuesday May 23, @03:47PM (1 child)
What does UBB mean?
(Score: 3, Informative) by kazzie on Tuesday May 23, @04:16PM
I guess it's "Ultimate Bulletin Board" , one of many web-based forum software packages.
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Tuesday May 23, @03:09AM
I lurk mostly nowadays, but man, seeing all of you regulars posting and reading your pontifications always brings a smile, and today, warms my heart. Please let me know where to send a few bucks, if it helps. I cherish this site and its community of greybeards with little interest in upvotes, and all interest in substance.
(Score: 1) by mrjesseking on Tuesday May 23, @03:58AM
I am a long time lurker in this community since the early days of Slashdot and I value the stories shared on the site and the commentary. I am confident that there are many other readers like myself who appreciate SN and want it to continue. I want to express my appreciation for the site administrators who have devoted so much of their time and energy into building the site and making difficult decisions. From the posts today it is clear that it has taken a personal toll on you. I think it is particularly admirable to build something like SN with little expectation for personal financial gain. I you can appreciate that your work has made a meaningful, positive impact on many of our lives.
Also, from the responses it is clear that there is interest in keeping some version of the site going. My vote would be to look for a solution that requires minimal technical maintenance. Probably an off the shelf hosting solution with some customization. While I appreciate the geekiness of home-brewed servers and databases they do not scale (or age) well. From my perspective, the core of this community does not need to be the platform on which it runs. I appreciate the lack of advertisements, the comment system and the minimal, fast loading, text based layout. Please, let's try to keep all of that. However, the core of the community is really the editorial decisions about which articles are featured and how the comments/users are moderated. If those core features are maintained I think you will be able to keep the spirit of the community going.
While I appreciate the sentiment that the site is good as it is ("nothing needs to change") I feel that it is unrealistic to discuss technology, science and other interesting topics without the community also adapting and modernizing. While I am sad to see SN shut down in its current form, I look forward to seeing (and helping) it transition to its new form.
(Score: 1) by oregonjohn on Tuesday May 23, @05:13AM
I love this place. I don't find hate, some animosity, lots of love of technology AND people.
I just want to see the articles and discussions continue.
When I see a post here requesting some money help for a transition I'll pitch in.
I could help technologically is there were little things I could learn and apply, but the big stuff is beyond me.
Thanks to everyone for even having this discussion.
(Score: 2) by dw861 on Tuesday May 23, @05:20AM (1 child)
I visit daily. Sadly, no skills to lend, but I will play my violin while you load the lifeboats. Then, in the new place, I will be a paying subscriber, as I was here. Onwards and upwards!
(Score: 1) by HexWitch on Tuesday May 23, @05:25AM
I have a harp. Can you do duets?
(Score: 1) by HexWitch on Tuesday May 23, @05:23AM
I am a new member. I finally decided to join after years of having stories and comments enthusiastically read to me. No sooner did I decide to join then I was told you were shutting down.
Please don't. I have enjoyed Soylent quite a bit, even if vicariously.
I have seen this kind of thing before. I was one of the people trying to save the site gznork26 spoke of. I was also involved in a debacle with an online school that badly needed a site update while people argued about what to do or not do, so I feel your pain.
I was a programmer for a few years. I can read Perl, PhP, HTML, and HTML5 and I can even code in a few languages, but I have no experience with a site like this. I will, however, volunteer to help where I can and be part of a team. I'm retired, so I have time to give.
Most of what I'm reading in the comments is about the technical issues, but I haven't heard very much about the business side. You need both.
One of the things I did read was something about trying to make a profit. Why? I'm pretty sure SL would qualify for a 501(c)3. If it doesn't qualify for that it would certainly qualify for a 501(c)6 or 501(c)7 as an organization catering to its members. The school I was involved with was a 501(c)3 organization. When we decided we wanted a presence on Second Life, we created a 501(c)6 to help us to afford it. Soylent might consider the same.
Another observation, a view from the outside, if you will, the instructions ask that you reply to other comments rather than start new threads. I've seen a couple of comments that say that they would volunteer. Why not start a thread of people who are willing to give some time?
(Score: 2) by rpnx on Tuesday May 23, @05:26AM (1 child)
If anyone is interested in Go, I've actually been building a blog website in Go... It's not exactly as fully featured as soylentnews but if anyone is interested I can collaborate and add enough features that I hope maybe the historical databases could be migrated over? If anyone is interested let me know how to get in contact with the people who run this today :) I suspect it shouldn't be *too* hard for me to get the backend working correctly. Although I'd mighty appreciate someone to help out with HTML/CSS as I have no idea what I'm doing there and all my CSS was generated by chatgpt.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Tuesday May 23, @03:49PM
Go is a somewhat decent language.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday May 23, @06:21AM
(Score: 2) by mechanicjay on Tuesday May 23, @06:44AM (1 child)
I, for one, would move to another platform with everyone. Though I officially stepped away from any SN duties a while ago, I do still peep in from time to time -- I long for what this place used to be. NGL, I have a lot of feels about this site and it's fate.
I don't have many suggestions about what platform to move to, but I do think that pipedot had the right approach of a clean slate implementation of a slash style site. Unlike, perl, which I find inscrutable, I make rent writing PHP -- more specifically, the last year or so has been a constant stream of updating PHP5 applications to PHP8. IDK, just tired rambling...
Most importantly, I'd like to give props to janrinok and a handful of others who've never given up on this place. You're far better people than I.
My VMS box beat up your Windows box.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday May 23, @02:40PM
If you feel inclined, could you drop me an email so that I can at least pick your brains about a couple of things that are outside my areas of expertise. I fully understand if you don't respond though... :)
Thanks for your kind words. In this situation they go a long way.
(Score: 2) by bart on Tuesday May 23, @08:57AM
I'm still reading Soylentnews daily, and still prefer it over the shout-fest that's going on at the green site (I presume, haven't visited in ages).
But I'm not going to do volunteer work for this site :-(
(Score: 2) by gawdonblue on Tuesday May 23, @11:46AM
What I would like most of all is if we can keep SN going (and many thanks to all that have contributed to it along the way), but if not then a new site that achieves similar functionality and members would be good.
As many others have expressed better, this is the site to go to for sensible tech news and knowledgeable discussions.
Cheers
(Score: 2, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday May 23, @12:03PM (7 children)
Saw yall were closing shop over on slashdot this morning. Remember how the site DB crashed a couple days after I randomized my passwords and it got rolled back? Apparently it got rolled back to before I randomized this password.
Nah. Same reasons I left still apply. Yall still want something different than what I do and it would cut my available fishing time back to pre-2021 levels. I just wanted to drop in and offer the staff my condolences and wish you all well wherever you end up. Most of the ordinary users and NCommander can bite me but yall who put in the day to day work to keep the lights on and stories moving are good folks that I hate to see lose their digital home.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Tuesday May 23, @02:06PM (2 children)
Hi Buzz! Wow. Never had a chance to say a proper goodbye to you last time. Pretty sure you were already gone when I wrote a comment on your journal.
Take care of yourself. I would've loved the chance to have some more epic arguments with ya.
You're having a laugh, you're deluded and wrong and your post exhibits several logical fallacies! (Just for old time's sake ;) ).
How's the church rebuild?
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday May 23, @02:22PM (1 child)
Sup. Church rebuild got put on hold due to a few thousand too many one pound bacon double cheeseburgers leading to a quadruple bypass. Everything went pretty well though and I'm doing better than I have been in a long time. It's amazing how much better you feel when your heart's not trying to push blood through a coffee stirring straw anymore. I should be back to working on it by the fall when my cardio efforts have my wind back in shape enough to wrangle lumber around again.
And they were logical phalluses not fallacies.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Tuesday May 23, @02:39PM
I'm pretty sure Vulcans have those, Pon Farr excepted of course.
Here's hoping your health continues to improve.
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Tuesday May 23, @02:43PM (1 child)
I appreciate you saying hello/goodbye and your comments. I hope that your home is now finished and the fish are still biting. Take care, and all the best for the future.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday May 23, @02:46PM
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Tuesday May 23, @04:36PM
*waves back*
Nice to see that old familiar name again! When you disappeared last time, I hadn't realised the depth of what was going on until we were already in the aftermath, and it was too late to say anything.
(I've no idea if my name's familiar to you, as I've largely been one of the readers with a few comments. Either way, I hope I don't have any biting that I need to do.)
I'm glad to hear that you're in better health, and that life is treating you fairly well. As I didn't get a chance last time, thanks for your hard work over the years, and your sharing of your views. (I won't have agreed with them all, but I come here in search of various viewpoints!)
Keep enjoying life, and I hope we stumble across each other again in the future.
(Score: 2) by mechanicjay on Tuesday May 23, @09:00PM
Nice to see your name around again, even if just for a good bye. I miss you bud.
My VMS box beat up your Windows box.
(Score: 2) by hellcat on Tuesday May 23, @01:31PM
I've enjoyed SN from the beginning, and thank NCommander and minions greatly. Backed it up with cash.
I'm not a fan of social media, but have been checking out Mastodon for a while and am impressed.
Server admin doesn't seem like it's crazy hard.
Mozilla is rumored to be building in server capabilities into Firefox.
And perhaps the best bit is that a server can have lots of flexibility in its configuration.
I know of some that allow 5k character limits.
Can a Mastadon server be set up to hold archived materials?
Can I be @HellCat @Soylent.News ?
And, as an added bonus, can features like comment moderation be accessed for those who help maintain the servers on a paid subscription basis?
I'm no longer good in the technical side, but I'll promise to support the next generation financially.
Good luck. To all of us.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Tuesday May 23, @02:00PM
Another vote for keeping this community alive by any viable means.
Obviously the closer it is to the lightweight, textual community-driven thing we had here, the better, but I believe just about anything, short of Farcebook, is better than nothing. Oh, not Hackernews though, I won't go there! Fussy, fickle lot we Soylentils are, huh?
I want to do what I can to help keep this going. I sadly still have to rule out full time staff involvement but maybe I can become an occasional editor or help tweak some HTML or CSS now and then. Let's see.
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Drake_Edgewater on Tuesday May 23, @03:38PM
I, for one, will welcome our
newoldsimilar, Lynx-compatible, community discussion website... uh, overlords!(Score: 3, Insightful) by tekk on Tuesday May 23, @03:40PM
I'd like Soylent to continue to exist in pretty much any form that's viable, honestly. I just like the weirder stories and more community-oriented feel vs slashdot.
(Score: 2) by Spook brat on Tuesday May 23, @04:28PM
Having skimmed the discussion, I'm going to chime in with a +1 and my own take on why:
This is not an echo chamber.
I frequently see complaints of this site being either a) a MAGA cesspool, or b) a far-left liberal stronghold. It can't possibly be both, and I'm going to assert that it's neither. This is not a "safe space" for anyone, where they can expect to only read things they agree with because everything posted conforms to the local groupthink.
What keeps me coming back is the presence of the aforementioned opinions, together with a fair spectrum in between. We have a community made up of many different voices, each confident in their positions, and all willing and capable to express them. There is frequent disagreement, and I'm sure the opposite sides aren't going to sway one another anytime soon; that's fine. I've occasionally marked people who strongly disagreed with me as "friend" on this site, because I genuinely want to keep hearing what they have to say. I don't want whatever comes next to ban disagreement or discussion of controversial topics. As long as the conversation continues, I'll have access to the full range of ideas people bring to this forum. For me, that's the greatest value that SN has.
Travel the galaxy! Meet fascinating life forms... And kill them [schlockmercenary.com]
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday May 23, @06:28PM
The real victim here is.....Michael David Crawford.
His gentleman-ness could be gone forever.
At the least, who he was could be forgotten.
I'd have thrown my panties at him (if I wore panties).
XD
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by r3dakted on Tuesday May 23, @07:58PM
I'm keen on seeing SN continue. I like reading the daily dose of stories and the community discussions around them.