Submitted via IRC for Runaway1956
Federal lawmakers are investigating how a former Iraqi insurgent fighter was able to lie about his identity and still get through America's 'extreme' vetting process.
The Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee has asked Attorney General Jeff Sessions to find out why the terror suspect's pending arrest was allegedly spiked just over a week before the election. Trump had run on a tough-on-terror platform and had been critical of President Obama's refugee policy.
"When [Joint Terrorism Task Force] and the U.S. Attorney's office for the Western District of Texas sought to prosecute this refugee, the local law enforcement and prosecutors allegedly 'met resistance' from officials within the National Security Division's Counter Terrorism section in Washington DC," Committee chairman Ron Johnson, R-Wis., said in a March 6 letter to U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @11:37AM (23 children)
"Extreme Vetting", huh? Another swipe at Trump, of course. Except, this guy entered the country before the election...
Fair and Balanced, my ass.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @01:38PM
.... thug niggers.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @02:11PM (18 children)
Yeeeeah, if anything, it felt like a swipe at the previous administration, as the usual reply to "we need EXTREEEEME vetting" is "we already have it". The vibe I get here is "no we don't", with the word "extreme" in scare-quotes and everything. Of course, I haven't RTFA, so I may be mistaken and your silly persecution complex may be justified.
(A single example of someone not caught by the byzantine, multi-year, soul-draining ordeal you call "vetting process" is, of course, useless. No matter how EXTREEEEME you vet, someone will sneak in.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @04:43PM (17 children)
Without defining how the new vetting would be more "extreme" than before, there is little use in comparing administrations and turning this into a partisan debate.
Bad guys lie and cheat; that's not news.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @05:34PM (11 children)
Indeed. can someone--anyone--tell me what "extreme vetting" means to them in the context of what Trump promised to the voters. AIUI, a refugee has to be first screened by the UNHCR before they are passed on the the US Dept of State for consideration for resettlement in the USA. Then the real fun begins for the prospective resettled refugee. They have to undergo vetting by something like half a dozen US TLAs, which includes at least half a dozen interviews, biometric scans, fingerprinting, criminal background checks, etc. The entire process typically takes 18 to 24 months, and that is if everything goes smoothly; I wouldn't doubt that by the end of the process they are on a first name basis with their case managers. Frankly, it looks to me like refugees coming to the USA undergo more rigorous screening than I did to get my security clearance to work for the US DoD. So, can anyone tell me what more the vetting process should include to make it "extreme", other than attaching a cute little buzzword onto the process?
(Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday March 09 2017, @06:17PM (10 children)
tell me what "extreme vetting" means to them in the context of what Trump promised to the voters.
An unconstitutional ban on Muslims entering the country.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @06:40PM (7 children)
Some constitutional rights apply to all people, some to people on US soil, and some to US citizens. (read carefully; check supreme court decisions)
There is probably no right to enter. Supposing there is, the constitution has a change process.
It's wishful thinking to imagine that importing the 3rd-world won't make us a 3rd-world country. A country is more than a chunk of land with some laws. Culture matters. When your culture involves tossing LGBT off of buildings and stoning women who report rape with less than 4 witnesses, you don't belong in the civilized world. These people mostly don't integrate. Rape culture is real... just not in the USA unless we invite it to immigrate.
Proper vetting: Eat a bacon cheeseburger while we watch your brain in an MRI scanner or SQUID.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday March 09 2017, @06:42PM (5 children)
The first ban was already ruled unconstitutional.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @06:55PM (2 children)
By the (frequently overruled) clowns of the 9th circuit.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 10 2017, @03:33AM (1 child)
> By the (frequently overruled) clowns of the 9th circuit.
Error. Yet another right-wing half-truth.
The 9th circuit is not over-ruled any more than other circuits.
They just handle more cases than the other circuits, so they have more cases that end up in front of the SCOTUS.
So yes it is true that in absolute numbers they are the most over-ruled. But in terms of percentage of decisions they are not.
And its the latter that matters.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 10 2017, @04:13AM
I'm surprised you didn't also point out that the first ban was, in fact, not (yet) ruled unconstitutional by the 9th circuit. No such ruling has yet to be made. The 9th circuit kept the temporary restraining order imposed by Judge James Robart of the US District Court for the Western District of Washington in place. At most this means that the 9th circuit court agrees with Judge Robart that the plaintiffs are likely to win their case and that continuing the travel ban would cause irreparable harm if allowed to continue. A ruling on constitutionality has not yet been made.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @10:16PM (1 child)
Yep
It's absolutely embarrassing and shameful to be an American these days. Absolutely disgusting for this trash to gain power.
More like the land of the Amerinazis now.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by SanityCheck on Thursday March 09 2017, @10:53PM
I love America now more than ever. Enjoy the grapes, they can be sour sometimes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 10 2017, @01:49AM
Well, true enough, as far as that goes.
In that case, maybe we should take the Statue of Liberty down and give it back to France? Perhaps they could find a country more worthy? And while we are at it, that plaque with the poem by Emma Lazarus should be taken down too. We don't do "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore" any more. I suppose many Americans just see that as too dangerous now.
Ironically, this has been said about most immigration waves coming to America. It was said about Germans back a little over a century ago; it was said about the Irish; it was said about the Japanese and Chinese; it was said about Italians and Jews. In fact, it's hard to think of any immigration wave that was not derided as people who "mostly don't integrate". Those past waves of immigrants are the ones who built this country and made it what it is today. Now imagine how impoverished our nation and our culture would be if all these other waves of immigrants had not been allowed in. This is what is at stake.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 10 2017, @04:02AM (1 child)
Since I always post as AC, unfortunately I can't mod you up +1, Funny. But I am still waiting for a (hopefully less glib) answer to my question. What more should (or can) be done that would make an already very arduous process more "extreme", in the sense of making it more rigorous (i.e., better)? I have yet to see any concrete proposals on how the process could be improved to make us safer here at home.
(Score: 2) by dry on Friday March 10 2017, @05:44AM
Well they could start by banning immigration from countries that have actually committed terrorist acts on US soil. There's also the other AC who wants to ban immigrants from countries that toss people from buildings. But that would be bad for business, especially Trump's businesses.
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @06:56PM (4 children)
First, the pre-screening: eat a bacon cheeseburger without hesitation
Second, get into the brain scanner. We show video of various things and see how your brain reacts. Some things: rabbi, imam, woman in burka, woman in bikini, man in bikini, dog, pig, cow, sheep, goat, a mixed group of unrelated men and women in beachwear, men kissing, koran, bible...
If you react like a member of any religious/ethnic/linguistic/caste/class group that tends to isolate itself when in western society, you're out. Go away.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @08:25PM (2 children)
OK, so you are not a fan of the first Amendment. So, tell us, which of the other amendments would you like to see ripped out of the bill of rights? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you see the second amendment as sacrosanct. But all those others...not so much. More and more, I am becoming convinced that there are no more true patriots left in this country. Really, I'm surrounded by a bunch of closeted fascists who would just love to enslave all those around them. And they likely see it as the ultimate blessed utopia...for themselves. I guess America really does deserve Donald Trump after all.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @09:05PM (1 child)
Suppose your religion requires you to toss virgins into volcanos. We don't let you do this, even though it limits your religious expression.
The same goes for tossing homosexuals off of buildings, stoning women who get raped but don't have at least 4 male witnesses, killing people who leave your faith, and killing your own daughter if she spends time with boys.
People who desire these things will lie about it. This is in fact explicitly part of their faith. Worse yet, people who have weak faith (not into the above horrors) frequently have kids who go all in.
Now, back to the limits of the 1st amendment. The supreme court has held that national security can take priority. This is such a case. It should also be obvious that a "faith" which fundamentally rejects our constitution is undeserving of constitutional protection.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 10 2017, @01:24AM
Look, you blithering fuckwit, the original premise was to demand that people "eat a bacon cheeseburger without hesitation" at the border in order to prove that they are not a threat. Call me weird, but I really don't think that abstaining from eating pork is a danger to me personally. On the matters of throwing virgins into volcanoes, tossing homosexuals off of buildings, stoning women who have been raped, et al., I'm right there with you. And you might be surprised to learn that quite a few muslims agree too. But just believing and practicing things different from what you believe and practice is not doing you any harm. It looks to me like you are demanding that anyone who comes into the country must do things exactly the way you do and believe exactly what you believe. This quite clearly makes you a fascist. Get help to cure whatever it is that is ailing you. Do it now.
Oh, good grief! Exactly why are you demanding others respect the constitution when not even you respect it? Physician, heal thyself!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 10 2017, @12:05AM
If you react like a member of any religious/ethnic/linguistic/caste/class group that tends to isolate itself when in western society, you're out. Go away.
Guess we'll be needing a new Vice President, then, eh?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @02:12PM
That's too bad, but I doubt it will cause the reaction from being any different. Clearly we need to do a better job molesting travelers.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @03:30PM (1 child)
Nothing to see here, submitter is just another SJW who got triggered when someone broke the rules of her safe space.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 10 2017, @12:07AM
You shouldn't talk about Runaway like that! You might trigger him again, right after he went all SJW on the Racists over in the Belladona Curves thread yesterday.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Thexalon on Thursday March 09 2017, @02:28PM (10 children)
The only way you could 100% keep all bad guys from outside of the country from getting into the country is:
1. Ban all international travel to the US, from anywhere. Which also means banning all international travel from the US to anywhere, since otherwise an American citizen could go to a foreign country, swap passports with a terrorist lookalike, and the terrorist comes back to the US claiming to be the citizen who just left.
2. Build something more effective than the Berlin Wall along all US borders. Including all coastlines. Potentially important is that Trump's Mexican border wall isn't even up to Berlin Wall standards, and the Berlin Wall was not 100% effective.
3. Ban all international trade, because nobody wants to spend the money to really investigate cargo shipping containers and a bad guy could easily sneak into the country by hiding in a shipping crate.
And even after you do all that, with all the major disruptions and staggeringly huge cost those measures would entail, the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of bad guys in America are native-born American citizens, and are bad guys for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with international terrorism and everything to do with things like "My girl better not be sleeping with another man!" and "Hey, I can get rich real quick by robbing banks." and "I need my drug fix."
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @03:38PM (1 child)
2. Build something more effective than the Berlin Wall along all US borders. Including all coastlines.
It's going to be great. [nytimes.com] Really really terrific. [csmonitor.com] Believe me. [inhomelandsecurity.com]
(Score: 2) by SanityCheck on Thursday March 09 2017, @10:54PM
Genius, take all the money from TSA for the wall as far as I'm concerned. Also man the wall with patriots.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday March 09 2017, @03:39PM (3 children)
3. Ban all international trade, because nobody wants to spend the money to really investigate cargo shipping containers and a bad guy could easily sneak into the country by hiding in a shipping crate.
This is technically incorrect. It would be pretty simple to use X-ray machines to scan all incoming shipping crates and look for humans, and given the level of X-ray radiation required to penetrate steel shipping crates, it probably wouldn't be good for any humans hiding inside either. There's already such scanners in use.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Thursday March 09 2017, @04:22PM (2 children)
They're in use, but they don't scan all cargo (they passed a law saying that they were supposed to, but then they decided that was too expensive). And you can solve the x-ray problem with lead shielding. I didn't say this was going to be a pleasant trip, mind you, just that it was possible to make it.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday March 09 2017, @04:36PM (1 child)
Two things with lead shielding: 1) you can just boost the X-ray power and penetrate that, or 2) since lead shielding isn't likely to be commonly used in containers, any that do can be flagged for manual inspection, at additional cost to the shipper or receiver. As for the expense of scanning, how expensive can it be once you have the machine in place? The only ongoing costs will be 1) electricity for the machine, 2) labor (having humans sit there and look at the images, which shouldn't take more than 1 minute per container I'm guessing; they certainly don't take anywhere near that long to look at the images of your luggage at the airport), and 3) maintenance costs for the machine.
I'm just pointing out that technical solutions can be employed to completely prevent people from sneaking into the country in shipping containers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @05:18PM
No matter how strict your guidelines, you are always at risk of one or more of them being accidentally overlooked. There is always a chance to get through.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @05:36PM
Yes, let's turn our country into a hermit kingdom, like NK. I hear it's completely safe over there.
(Score: 3, Touché) by NewNic on Thursday March 09 2017, @06:30PM (1 child)
You forgot the beaches. Perhaps we need pillboxes with .50 caliber machine guns at all beaches on both coasts. Or mines. Yeah, we could lay mines in the beaches.
In the real world, this administration is proposing reductions to the funding of the Coast Guard.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday March 10 2017, @04:04AM
No, I didn't forget them. My proposed wall specifically ran along all coastlines.
Oh, and based on that, going out onto the ocean in a boat for any reason has to be illegal too. Hope you didn't like seafood.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @06:46PM
The fact that one may get through is no excuse for not having a proper wall. Better, do 5 fences with 1000-foot spacing and sensors, or just lay a minefield.
Cutting down on identity theft would also help. If you can't do basic transactions in the USA, it's rather hard to survive undetected. (no job, no housing, no car, no medical care, no large purchases, no banking, no flights...)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by pkrasimirov on Thursday March 09 2017, @02:56PM (1 child)
> Why ... ?
Because instead of resorting to sane methods the USA government decided groping balls at the airport should do.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Gaaark on Thursday March 09 2017, @03:22PM
Don't forget the pussy... Small orange hands get lots of pussy.
;)
This shit is still fun!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Gaaark on Thursday March 09 2017, @03:19PM (2 children)
To go along with all the hate, where is H?
Still showing her leadership skillz! H packed up all her toys and went home to play with Wasserman-Whogivesashit, while Sanders showed up to the fight.
Vote for Sanders and be smart (unlike the DNC)
Lol, can't believe this shit is still carrying on. :)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @03:33PM (1 child)
What does your post have to do with this article?
Seriously, do you have Asperger's Syndrome?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @03:54PM
Unfortunately he does suffer from similar. [soylentnews.org] Nobody's perfect.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by fishybell on Thursday March 09 2017, @04:18PM (6 children)
What I'm getting from all of this is that the system worked. He was able to get past all of the various steps and obstacles to get into the country, and he was still caught.
We're not hearing about him shooting up a mall or anything, we're hearing about his arrest.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 09 2017, @06:14PM (5 children)
Yeah, well, OK. It's good that he was caught before he did something like shoot up a mall. On the other hand, I would feel more comfortable about it if he were caught before he was allowed into the country. From that perspective, I think it entirely appropriate for the US Dept of State to review their procedures to find out how he managed to slip through the cracks.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fishybell on Thursday March 09 2017, @06:39PM
Sure, that would be optimal. I'm guessing studying how he got through all the steps successfully is very much going to effect future vetting practices, as it should.
It's kind of like the black-hat vs. white-hat hacker debate. Penetration testing is highly effective at reducing further intrusion. If no one ever got through the process before, it would be easy for the state department to sit on their laurels, thinking they'd thought of all possible loopholes. Things like this can end up leading to a more secure system.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 10 2017, @08:17AM (3 children)
Yeah, well, OK. It's good that he was caught before he did something like shoot up a mall. On the other hand, I would feel more comfortable about it if he were caught before he was allowed into the country. From that perspective, I think it entirely appropriate for the US Dept of State to review their procedures to find out how he managed to slip through the cracks.
Exactly. Because no one other than those Mecca praying, raghead pieces of shit ever shoot anything or anybody [latimes.com]. Amirite?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 10 2017, @05:28PM (2 children)
No, you are not right, you worthless phlegm ball. Go back and reread what I wrote, this time for comprehension. I was challenging fishybell's notion that "the system worked"; in this case it didn't and I think that means procedures need to be reviewed and (possibly) improved. Note I said reviewed and improved, not halted. FWIW, fishybell immediately picked up on what I was getting at. Sadly, you did not. Remember: Read, Think, (optionally) Post. Do not change this order. Do not skip any steps. Also, it is good to keep in mind that it is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 11 2017, @05:13AM (1 child)
And so Poe's Law strikes again!
Good on you, brother AC! You win the Intertubes today!
(Score: 2) by fishybell on Saturday March 25 2017, @06:07PM
Poe's Law is the Hitler of English adages.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 10 2017, @12:42AM (1 child)
Saw this same tactic back with CRAB. When caught in a scandal, change the subject. This story is fake news. Not found anywhere else, anywhere on the real media streams. A Non-event. Nothing happened. Nobody was hurt. No blood was spilled. No dishes were broken. Nothing was blown up. Nobody died. A fake staged arrest may have been made to enhance the illusion for the cameras.
The Emperor of Chaos tweeting serious allegations of illegal wiretapping abuse by a former president and several federal agencies. All false rumors started by fake alt-right media. If Obama had done this shit he would have been in an eternal shit storm by all those fucking reds he was surrounded by every God-damned day.
Meanwhile for those not paying attention, because you're watching fox news:
1. Congress is passing a bill right now to allow your ISP to track all your browsing habits and sell your browsing history to whomever wants to buy it. Your privacy is now gone.
Read it here on that other site: https://politics.slashdot.org/story/17/03/08/2032228/gop-senators-new-bill-would-let-isps-sell-your-web-browsing-data [slashdot.org]
2. Your insurance and healthcare is going to get much worse and much more expensive. If you have healthcare at all.
3. Mexico will never pay for that wall. All americans will pay for it buying their groceries, good & services and through your taxes.
Much like the old playground game of "look at my thumb." While the public's focused on fake news, the "Look at my thumb" part, Your senators are passing laws that make your future Orwellian future look tame. The "I've got my hands down your pants and groping your junk" is the "Gee you're dumb" part.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 10 2017, @03:36AM
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
-LBJ