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posted by Fnord666 on Sunday April 09 2017, @06:22PM   Printer-friendly
from the no-soup-for-you dept.

What is “lunch shaming?” It happens when a child can’t pay a school lunch bill.

In Alabama, a child short on funds was stamped on the arm with “I Need Lunch Money.” In some schools, children are forced to clean cafeteria tables in front of their peers to pay the debt. Other schools require cafeteria workers to take a child’s hot food and throw it in the trash if he doesn’t have the money to pay for it.

In what its supporters say is the first such legislation in the country, New Mexico has outlawed shaming children whose parents are behind on school lunch payments.

Source: The New York Times


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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @06:30PM (106 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @06:30PM (#491222)

    >Other schools require cafeteria workers to take a child’s hot food and throw it in the trash

    If the kid didn't pay for it, it's not the child's hot food.

    A long time ago, the definition of "shame" was having a bunch of kids that you couldn't possibly afford. The new definition is outrage over other people not taking care of you with their tax dollars for your entire life.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by mojo chan on Sunday April 09 2017, @07:15PM (13 children)

      by mojo chan (266) on Sunday April 09 2017, @07:15PM (#491247)

      Initially I was shocked that school meals were not free. In fact, in many European countries breakfast is included for free too because a good breakfast is so important for kids. One kid being hungry or undernourished can drag the whole class down as they struggle to concentrate, so it's in no-one's interests for that to happen.

      Also, get off your high horse. Some people have kids and then fall on hard times. The US has shitty medical cover, major illness or an accident can easily bankrupt you. Hardly anyone has job security any more. Most people would be waiting forever to have kids, and then you would be really screwed because by the time you get old either there wouldn't be enough people around to provide care and the economic stability your pension depends on, or there would be a vast influx of immigrants which doesn't sound like a popular solution.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:50PM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:50PM (#491310)

        > or there would be a vast influx of immigrants which doesn't sound like a popular solution.

        We fucking have that too! Who do you think is taking up a good percentage of those free lunches and not paying taxes on them?

        Oh, and for all the bleeding hearts - most schools still do give the kids a free lunch when they can't pay. It just isn't a nice hot one. They get a cold sandwich.

        We've had the War on Poverty for 50 years now. Every year the budget goes up and up, yet there's a higher percentage of the population on welfare than ever before. POVERTY IS WINNING, yet you idiots never seem interested in changing the game plan.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:08PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:08PM (#491348)

          POVERTY IS WINNING, yet you idiots never seem interested in changing the game plan.

          Poverty is winning in the US. In the civilized world we seem to be doing OK.

        • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @01:20AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @01:20AM (#491415)

          We've had the War on Poverty for 50 years now. Every year the budget goes up and up, yet there's a higher percentage of the population on welfare than ever before. POVERTY IS WINNING, yet you idiots never seem interested in changing the game plan.

          That is a lie. [washingtonpost.com]

          In 1965 the national poverty rate was 17.3%, in 2010 it was 15% and in 2013 it was 14.5%.

          And that's just based on cash income, and ignores non-cash benefits like medicaid and public housing which have reduced the effective poverty rate even further.
          Using the SPM (supplemental poverty measure [ucdavis.edu]) which tries to take into account not only regional differences in cost-of-living but also changes in family budget allocations (for example, food as a percentage of a typical family budget has dropped from ~30% in 1960s to ~15%) the percentage of households living in poverty has dropped from 25.8% in 1965 to 14.3% in 2015. [census.gov]

          Even with all the setbacks of the Clinton-era "welfare reform" in the 90s, American anti-poverty programs have, and continue to make an enormous difference in the lives of millions of people. We obviously can do better, but that doesn't mean we haven't done a lot of good already.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:05AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:05AM (#491478)

          For school lunch in the USA, nobody ever gets "a nice hot one". Here are the two possibilities:

          1. The non-paying student gets grape jelly, peanut butter, and white bread. The glycemic index is sky high, so causing hyperactivity followed by sleepiness. All three ingredients are yucky, but nothing is really horrible. Well, I would have vomited from the peanut butter, but that's just me.

          2. The paying student gets a hot lunch. The heat ensures that everybody can experience the vile smell. It's something like overcooked pasta with soy-based fake burger, 6 grapes, skim milk, and lettuce covered with a dressing made from various soy and corn chemicals.

          Also, nobody washes hands before the meal. You might not be allowed, there is no time, and you'd certainly have to touch dirty doors before getting back to your food. Nobody flosses or brushes their teeth afterward.

          • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday April 10 2017, @05:58PM

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday April 10 2017, @05:58PM (#491779) Journal

            Except in this case the non-paying student get a bigs helping of STFU.

            And the paying student gets, you know, food.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by mcgrew on Monday April 10 2017, @03:30PM

          by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Monday April 10 2017, @03:30PM (#491664) Homepage Journal

          there's a higher percentage of the population on welfare than ever before.

          The AC above is either ignorant or a liar. Welfare ended in the US in 1996 with the passage of the Personal Work and Responsibility Act, which ended Aid to Families with Dependent Children and replaced it with Temporary Assistance to Needy Families. TANF has a two year limit for benefits, with a five year lifetime maximum.

          There are also no more foof stamps. There is now LINK, and all thos people working at McDonald's has a LINK card. If you want to end poverty, raise the minimum wage. In 1971 when a candy bar was a nickle and a pack of cigarettes or a gallon of gasoline was a quarter, the minimum wage was $1.40. It should be $14 today, because prices have increased ten times.

          --
          Free Martian whores! [mcgrewbooks.com]
      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Dunbal on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:18PM (4 children)

        by Dunbal (3515) on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:18PM (#491357)

        Initially I was shocked that school meals were not free. In fact, in many European countries breakfast is included for free too because a good breakfast is so important for kids.

        Most of the world offers free meals to children in public schools. That's the way it is in latin America. It's the only way to guarantee that kids at least receive some form of guaranteed caloric intake and nutrition even in the poorest areas. Funny how tiny, poor countries can afford something as simple as this, and yet America that bastion of "Freedom and Democracy" and the shining light we must all follow - somehow thinks it's better to humiliate children. I wonder where all that capitalist money goes. Oh wait - Tomahawks...

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @05:12AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @05:12AM (#491506)

          You are free to starve, citizen.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @06:26PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @06:26PM (#491806)

            but keep paying for the wars or we throw you in debtor's prison

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @08:15PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @08:15PM (#491915)

              i don't pay for their wars. my just war will come when they try to get "their" back taxes. fuck the seditious whores at the irs and their henchmen. they will get theirs.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @06:41PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @06:41PM (#491820)

          "Most of the world offers free meals to children in public schools."

          Total b.s. you just made up, having done zero research.

          Here is the Wikipedia article. And, yes, it's a million times more authoritative than some uninformed simpleton posting on some web site:

          "Sweden, Finland, the Czech Republic, and Estonia are among the few countries which provide free school meals to all pupils in compulsory education, regardless of their ability to pay. In high-income countries, free school meals are usually available to children who meet income-based criteria. (The exception is Australia, where free school meals are not available). Canada has no national school meal program, and elementary schools are usually not equipped with kitchen facilities. Parents are generally expected to provide a packed lunch for their children to take to school, or have their children return home to eat during the lunch period."

          Gee, the bash-the-U.-S.-at-every-opportunity crowd (regardless of the facts) usually love countries like Canada and Australia.

          By contrast the U.S. program of providing free lunches to poor students is one of the best in the world. The parents that "aren't paying" have plenty of money, and are selfishly spending every penny on themselves. I don't think the children should be shamed, but lying about the world situation in the usual "U.S. is bad, bad, bad!" manner is absolute garbage.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @04:19AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @04:19AM (#491498)

        It is free in the US if your family is poor or just working class and apply for it. Otherwise, it costs a relatively small amount in most schools I have seen. And, you can also get breakfast.
        In the 80's it was less than a dollar.
        In the 90's it was about a dollar.
        In the 2000's it was about $2.

        Cheap, fast food is about 2 to 3 times that, and a proper meal about 4 to 5.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by davester666 on Sunday April 09 2017, @07:23PM (1 child)

      by davester666 (155) on Sunday April 09 2017, @07:23PM (#491255)

      Because it is literally impossible for an individuals circumstances to change.

      Because R's demand you pop the baby out, then toss you out onto the street with a bill for your hospital stay to give birth. Because they care about your baby.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @11:26PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @11:26PM (#491379)

        The right to life only applies to the unborn.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by KilroySmith on Sunday April 09 2017, @07:31PM (13 children)

      by KilroySmith (2113) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 09 2017, @07:31PM (#491266)

      I think there are valuable lessons here.

      Kids should understand that there are things in life that cost money, and if you don't have the money, you can't have the things. Lunch is a pretty harsh thing to learn that lesson over, but I understood it when I went to elementary school - you could "take" lunch in a brown bag, or "buy" lunch from the school. If you didn't have a lunch, you went hungry. My mother let us "buy" lunch twice a week; I quickly learned to make at least a sandwich on the "take" days.

      But that doesn't mean that stamping a scarlet letter on the student is the right answer. IMHO, a student who goes through the lunch line and doesn't have money to pay should get his lunch, along with a discreet discussion about needing to have money to get lunch and a note to parents requesting the cost. If it's a repetitive problem for a particular student, it needs a more personalized intervention - is it a discipline problem, a poverty problem, or something else - with a personalized approach. Based on my memories from elementary school, nobody's going to go broke because one or two students a day took some food and didn't pay.

      IMHO, punitive attitudes like the parents (take it out on the kids because of a bigoted perceived parental failing) are unforgivable in a civilized society.

      /frank

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by vux984 on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:18PM (2 children)

        by vux984 (5045) on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:18PM (#491292)

        Your whole post reads like a child going up, placing an order, and then not having enough cash in his wallet. And in the context your post seems reasonable. But is that really the scenario here?

        I RTFA and it sounded more to me like the parents are paying a monthly fees to the school to provide the lunches, and then have gotten behind on their payments. You see the same thing in after school care too -- where if the parents are behind on their payments, the provider is in a tough spot. Are they supposed to just deny the kid care and ... what... kick them out on the street.

        Its not the child's fault the parents last meal plan or daycare cheque bounced... and its not really a 'teachable moment' for the child.

        And perhaps the parents are 'milking' it a bit -- counting on the school not to literally withhold food or shelter from a child, just because they're behind on the fees... I'm not sure what the solution here is. Interest and fines on the late payments is the 'default' solution... and it's what utilities etc use, but it doesn't work if the parents are behind because they couldn't pay the original amount; tacking fines just gives them a bigger number they aren't going to pay. And actually the utilities have the same problem. They aren't allowed to simply cut off the heat when a cheque bounces either...

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @10:09AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @10:09AM (#491568)

          its not really a 'teachable moment' for the child.

          I suspect it is in fact teaching the child something... but definitely not the thing that they want to teach, depending on just how the school handles it. In some schools a child is required to take a lunch, or at least, it used to be. As such, in this situation they're essentially humiliated repeatedly for something entirely beyond their control that they cannot opt out of. This does in fact teach them a lesson, and it is not one that makes them inclined to be respectful or well-behaved in the future, and understandably so.

        • (Score: 2) by meustrus on Monday April 10 2017, @08:00PM

          by meustrus (4961) <{meustrus} {at} {gmail.com}> on Monday April 10 2017, @08:00PM (#491897)

          The solution is pretty simple: pay for the food with taxes. The problem with that is mainly people who send their kids to school with a lunchbox who would be indignant that they still have to pay, and to a lesser extent people with no kids anyway. It's ultimately the same problem as funding public education at all though, which is...currently under fire in every Republican state as a target to slash funding in order to pay for their tax cuts for the rich.

          I eagerly await the libertarian straw man to tell me how this plan is wrong because threats of violence if you don't pay your taxes are wrong and we should have a ridiculously complicated system of trillions of legal contracts between individuals instead, apparently enforced by sheer goodwill.

          --
          If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative.
      • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:52PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:52PM (#491312)

        >IMHO, punitive attitudes like the parents (take it out on the kids because of a bigoted perceived parental failing) are unforgivable in a civilized society.

        Your definition of 'civilised' is that an ever-increasing population of stupid, irresponsible and lazy people get to do whatever they please, while hard-working prudent people are forced to pay for them.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @09:29PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @09:29PM (#491335)

          Then why oscillate your bowels?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @04:32PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @04:32PM (#491711)

          Maybe you missed the latest reality check, but right now the US is a place where an ever-increasing (but still tiny) population of stupefyingly rich, irresponsible, stupid, and lazy people get to do whatever they please, while the hard working majority of people are forced to give up their hard earned money to the top 1% for "reasons".

          Taxes are normal and keep society moving.

          Extreme greed takes resources away from society and makes it collapse.

          Your definition of civilized is actually the opposite, what you propose is anarchy or such a thin system of "government" that it may as well be anarchy. I imagine a horde of angry poor people in your proposed future, a horde which runs over anyone with any amount of property / resources. This mob will work hard at plundering your stash of goodies, and will prudently leave your bibles behind. Hooray for the future!

      • (Score: 2) by dry on Monday April 10 2017, @02:21AM

        by dry (223) on Monday April 10 2017, @02:21AM (#491445)

        Especially the kid who just had his lunch money stolen by a bully.

      • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday April 10 2017, @05:25AM (4 children)

        by Reziac (2489) on Monday April 10 2017, @05:25AM (#491508) Homepage

        It's not stamping a scarlet letter. It's making sure the parent sees it in a kid who is unlikely to remember to take a note home from school.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by pe1rxq on Monday April 10 2017, @12:19PM (2 children)

          by pe1rxq (844) on Monday April 10 2017, @12:19PM (#491601) Homepage

          If stamping it on the arm of the kid is the only way a school can communicate effectivly with the parents your education system is seriously fucked up.

          --
          Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
          • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday April 10 2017, @03:51PM (1 child)

            by Reziac (2489) on Monday April 10 2017, @03:51PM (#491683) Homepage

            Or the parents are oblivious. Everything isn't on the school system's head, ya know.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @04:56PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @04:56PM (#491732)

              So what matters is that 0.01% who are bad parents, its their moral failings that should determine how all the other children are treated regardless of how damaging it is to those kids.
              You are a peach.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @04:14PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @04:14PM (#491704)

          It's not stamping a scarlet letter. It's making sure the parent sees it in a kid who is unlikely to remember to take a note home from school.

          And if that doesn't work, I suppose we could just tattoo it to their arm; that way, no one in their family will ever forget. I mean, it worked so fabulously for the nazis. </sarcasm>

      • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday April 10 2017, @03:34PM

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Monday April 10 2017, @03:34PM (#491667) Homepage Journal

        ALL poor kids know about not being able to afford things. Only those who have been affluent all their lives (or those with intelligence) know this. Why don't you?

        --
        Free Martian whores! [mcgrewbooks.com]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @07:32PM (33 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @07:32PM (#491267)

      It's not the kid's fault his parents are poor. Society should help the kid, not shun him because his parents, not him, were lazy.

      • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:36PM (32 children)

        If by "society" you mean you'd be happy to pay for someone else's kid to eat, more power to you. If you mean they should take money out of my check for someone else's responsibility, then fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

        --
        We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:47PM (15 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:47PM (#491307)

          Interesting concept of "society" you have. Glad I am not part of your society. (And I'm sure the feeling is mutual.)

          • (Score: 0, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:21PM (14 children)

            Yes, I'm aware of leftards views that society exists as this ephemeral overlord that must always be bowed to. It's not. It's simply a term for "a bunch of people that live in these borders". Do please bear in mind that when you try spouting what's good for "society", you're speaking for the half of the nation that hate your breathing guts and everything you stand for as well.

            --
            We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @11:41PM (13 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @11:41PM (#491383)

              You need to talk to a therapist. I have no idea who hurt you, but get help. Walking around with so much rage has horrible effects on your immune system, and trust me - you ain't earning enough to pay for the resulting medical bills on your own.

              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 10 2017, @12:28AM (12 children)

                No rage here, sweety. Plenty of scorn and mockery and maybe a bit of condescension but I don't get angry at fools or I'd have to be angry all day every day.

                --
                We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @01:22AM (11 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @01:22AM (#491418)

                  Dude, you are a riot.
                  You have got to be the least self-aware person on this site.
                  The lengths you go to to deny the obvious are epic.
                  But the only person you are fooling is yourself.

                  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 10 2017, @01:35AM (10 children)

                    I find it interesting that you think you know what others are feeling better than they do? Is this that fabled libtard empathy? That would make sooooo much sense given how wrong they always are on everything.

                    --
                    We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @02:08AM (3 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @02:08AM (#491440)

                      I find it interesting that you think you know what others are feeling better than they do?

                      I'm glad you asked.
                      To answer your question, no you do not find it interesting, you find it discomforting.
                      It annoys you that you lack the self-control to prevent others from reading you so clearly.
                      I'll give you a pointer though, maybe it will help. When you use words like "libtard" its like a spotlight on your id.

                      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 10 2017, @10:51AM (2 children)

                        SJWs always double down. -- Vox Popoli

                        Apparently a professional troll has better empathetic skills than our friends on the left fringe.

                        --
                        We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @04:59PM (1 child)

                          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @04:59PM (#491738)

                          Double down on what, exactly?
                          All I see here is you repeating "no I'm not!" with different words.

                          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @06:28PM

                            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @06:28PM (#491807)

                            But he used a quote!! It was more elaborate than "no I'm not!", it was a virtue signal to the rest of his fellow Morloks to let them know they should simply dismiss anything further you might say and prepare their cauldrons for your delectable Eloi meats.

                    • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 10 2017, @02:52AM (5 children)

                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 10 2017, @02:52AM (#491467)

                      Hey, dipshit, the reason we can "read" you so well is because YOU AREN'T SPECIAL. We've seen this shit before.

                      If anything, now that der Drumpfenscheisser has convinced your kind it's safe to come out of whatever moist places under rocks you breed in, we're finding out you're probably the largest block of the population. You're the "normies," Cthulhu help us. Ignorant, self-centered, stunted manchildren like you are a dime a dozen and between however many million of you there are there is not one single original thought.

                      Your disease is as old as history. In every era, people like you arise, and in every era, you're always beaten back. Maybe we'll lose this time. Maybe you'll win. If you do, the survivors will very quickly come to envy the dead. Until then, we will fight you.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @05:35AM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @05:35AM (#491512)

                        Hmm. So that's how rich justify beating the poor.

                      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 10 2017, @10:46AM (3 children)

                        It's nifty how your every argument is against a strawman of what you want me to be. Leftard empathy at its finest is apparently nothing but projection.

                        --
                        We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
                        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:34PM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:34PM (#491670)

                          People used to have empathy for you, your posts used to get more reasonable responses. But over time you've shown that you are either trolling, or you can't take the heat of real discussion. So here we are, you rage out then try and tell everyone they're wrong for thinking you're upset.

                          Why do emotions scare you so badly?

                        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 10 2017, @06:22PM (1 child)

                          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 10 2017, @06:22PM (#491800)

                          Yeah, what the AC below you said. Empathy just means being able to consider things from someone else's PoV. As such, normal human beings have a hard time empathizing with you because, and I can't stress this enough, *you aren't playing with a full deck.* You're very clearly a sociopath, and as empathy is the foundation of all prosocial behavior, it means there is naturally going to be some level of disconnect between you and fully-functioning people.

                          You don't even make an effort to be prosocial; you think this Randian brain-damage you've got is some kind of mark of distinction or superiority. Got news for ya, pal: it's not. You are pitiable.

                          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 11 2017, @02:35AM

                            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 11 2017, @02:35AM (#492088)

                            Dude's not even a smart sociopath.

                            A smart one would recognize his own deficiencies. He might not consider them deficiencies but he'd at least recognize that everybody else sees the world differently and that civilization is where it is now due to the efforts of generations of people unlike himself.

                            Instead he's stuck in that high-school outcast mode of thinking everybody else are dummies and that they only pick on him because they are jealous of his smarts.

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:54PM (2 children)

          by aristarchus (2645) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:54PM (#491315) Journal

          then fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

          That's our TMB! Genteel purveyor of reasoned discourse and rational debate! Defender of free speech and alternative viewpoints! And a homosexual rapist and practicer of animal husbandry. Oh, the Huge McManatee!

          --
          #freearistarchus!!!
        • (Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @09:01PM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @09:01PM (#491319)

          If by "society" you mean you'd be happy to pay for someone else's kid to eat, more power to you./quote.

          As the biggest misanthrope on this website you are the last person anyone should listen to on the topic of what constitutes a society. You live in an alternate universe randian utopia that has never once existed in the history of mankind.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:10PM (4 children)

            Did you have a point there or were you just flinging shit because you disagree?

            --
            We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @01:25AM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @01:25AM (#491419)

              Did you have a point or were you just posting to assuage your wounded ego?
              Your posts are so unintentionally revealing they are like a window into your desiccated soul.

              • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 10 2017, @01:32AM (2 children)

                Isn't that special... You think you know how to troll. It's so cute!

                --
                We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
                • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @05:02AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @05:02AM (#491504)

                  Dude, professional standards, please! Real Trolls know when to leave them hanging. You are just verifying everything that everyone suspects of you. Epic Troll Fail, dude! Reboot! Start again.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @11:46PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @11:46PM (#492023)

                  As the biggest misanthrope on this website you are the last person anyone should listen to on the topic of what constitutes a society. You live in an alternate universe randian utopia that has never once existed in the history of mankind.

                  Umm, learn to cogitate? That is not even close to trolling, that is straight up "fuck you".

        • (Score: 2) by boxfetish on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:16PM (2 children)

          by boxfetish (4831) on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:16PM (#491355)

          There is one fatal flaw in your (and the most of the other Randian shitstain's) world view. We don't live in a meritocracy in any way, shape, or form. If we did, you might have a point. What's that old adage? Something about being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple?

          • (Score: 2, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:37PM

            Yes, some people are born rich. You yourself I assume were born into a nation that is so amazingly prosperous that it affords you the leisure time to bitch about trivialities and How Things Should Be For Everyone. Get the fuck over it.

            --
            We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:51AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:51AM (#491493)

            There is one fatal flaw in your (and the most of the other Randian shitstain's) world view. We don't live in a meritocracy in any way, shape, or form.

            If you look into the origin of the modern definition of word "meritocracy" [wikipedia.org] you'll find that it was coined by someone parodying the concept.
            Turns out that a certain segment of the population that is congenitally unable to comprehend what makes for a healthy, robust society took it as an article of faith instead.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by dry on Monday April 10 2017, @02:54AM (3 children)

          by dry (223) on Monday April 10 2017, @02:54AM (#491469)

          Much better that they take the money from your paycheck to kill kids on the other side of the world eh.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 10 2017, @10:43AM (2 children)

            Wrong again. I've no love for wars for "America's Interests" or for the good of someone else. If it's not directly to protect me and mine, we shouldn't be spending my money to do it.

            --
            We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:36PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:36PM (#491672)

              What else do you expect from a violently imposed monopoly??

              But seriously, you fail so hard. Try 3rd grade history, might help you understand what taxes are all about.

            • (Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday April 11 2017, @01:59AM

              by dry (223) on Tuesday April 11 2017, @01:59AM (#492073)

              Perhaps best not to take any of "your" money. Your boss can lower your wage so you have slightly higher take home pay and you can spend more money dealing with a society full of people who are brain damaged due to childhood malnutrition.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by theluggage on Sunday April 09 2017, @07:51PM (7 children)

      by theluggage (1797) on Sunday April 09 2017, @07:51PM (#491283)

      A long time ago, the definition of "shame" was having a bunch of kids that you couldn't possibly afford.

      ...and that is the kid's fault how, exactly?

      Civilised states/countries have free school meals programs for kids from poor families. Or, if you've got reason to believe that it's "won't pay" rather than "can't pay", go after the parents, screw up their credit record, have the payments deducted from their wages/welfare payments, set the child protection services on them... Don't take it out on the kids.

      "Oliver Twist" wasn't an instruction manual.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:11PM (6 children)

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:11PM (#491351) Homepage Journal

        Appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy, and illegals are more than happy to exploit their children to stay affixed to the Free Shit™ teet. Like the Islamic savages steamrolling their way across Europe, they are taking advantage of your bleeding-hearts for as long as it suits them even though they can and do abandon their children when it is convenient for them.

        A big part of this leverage is the insistence that kids must stay with their families. While this is true for citizens, we should let it be known that there will no longer be incentives for illegals to get free rides. Yes, it sucks for the children, but their parents made a deliberate choice to open their families up to the possibility that people will say, enough, and deport all illegals and change the laws regarding anchor-babies.

        Some European countries far more civilized require that, to be considered citizens, children born in the country must have one or both parents as citizens. Unfortunately the EU leadership is replacing their civilized population with savage untermensch "refugees" as an end-run around those rules -- and this is why cheap labor doesn't necessarily make good labor...if they choose to "labor" at all rather than leech from the system, destroy property, rape, pillage, sell drugs, throw grenades, and drive trucks through people.

        • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:45PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:45PM (#491370)

          "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door and bare forth my free shit teet!"

          • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday April 09 2017, @11:13PM (2 children)

            by Ethanol-fueled (2792) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 09 2017, @11:13PM (#491374) Homepage Journal

            " The second amendment, and the whole constitution, are obsolete documents! We didn't have assault-rifles back then! "

            " America is a nation founded by immigrants! We let everybody in back then and that's how we became the greatest nation on Earth! "

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by dry on Monday April 10 2017, @02:36AM (1 child)

              by dry (223) on Monday April 10 2017, @02:36AM (#491456)

              Being the greatest arseholes in the world is hardly anything to brag about.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 11 2017, @04:24PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 11 2017, @04:24PM (#492334)

                Oh ho! You Brits better not spout off, you were the biggest nobs for a LONG while.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by cubancigar11 on Monday April 10 2017, @05:50AM (1 child)

          by cubancigar11 (330) on Monday April 10 2017, @05:50AM (#491514) Homepage Journal

          Warning: Offtopic

          The american cowboys got the bomb, so they screwed up middle-east to their liking. The Islamic savages got the oil, so they can screw up the west. Insead of hating those Islamic savages, you should hate yourself for being so dependent on dictators.

          There was never going to be a situation where this problem was magically disappearing. The west screwed up millions of human beings, caused death of millions, etc. to make sure it remains on top. Your problem is not the Islamic savages, your problem is that you are not on top in your country.

          In many ways, western savages are the worst [wikipedia.org].

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @11:49PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @11:49PM (#492025)

            Oh yeah, 100%. That is part of why we have such tension between the general categories of left / right. The liberals tend to acknowledge these problems, the conservatives tend to gloss over the problems and hop straight to "USA best country ever! SUPPORT OUR TROOPS killing everyone who gets in our way."

            A good portion of the US is absolutely horrified at what we do but powerless to stop it. We are also so dependent on this power structure that stopping it would be near apocalypse levels for the US. Renewables should put a stop to the madness. Collectively the US is quite insane.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:30PM (29 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:30PM (#491298)

      Another one who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

      Let me put it in terms more familiar to you: there is a higher RoI in feeding these kids than not doing it. The more of them finish school and become socially well-adjusted, the less way pay later on in prison money, doctor bills, insurance premiums (remember, insurance is pooled risk...), food stamps, homeless shelters, and so on.

      You and your kind are either so shortsighted it should be classified as a learning disorder, or simply hiding behind the supposed economics of this as an excuse to commit what amounts to class-stratified genocide.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:39PM (28 children)

        Nobody's ever died over missing a meal or two, you overly dramatic twat. If they were actually being malnourished, their teacher is obligated to involve social services but this is not what we're talking about here today.

        --
        We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:58PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:58PM (#491317)

          you mean you have changed your mind, and that you are willing to help fund the meals for all of the children, minus 2 days per school year?

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:14PM (1 child)

            I never said I wouldn't be. What I object to is it being taken from me by force because you think it should.

            --
            We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @11:40PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @11:40PM (#492019)

              Like the funding for the F-35, or for the 59 tomahawks we just launched at Syria, or the corporate welfare we hand out every year.

              Yeah, I'll take "feeding needy kids" over Trump's desire to look tough and distract us from his bad decisions. TMB grow a heart, the human body can't exist on bile forever.

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 09 2017, @09:00PM (24 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 09 2017, @09:00PM (#491318)

          Having grown up in the bad parts of NYC I can tell you many of my classmates on free lunch *were* malnourished. It was obvious in their movements and behavior and posture. Some of them told me that some days that lunch was the only meal they got. I had friends who had no socks, some who weren't wearing underwear, some who would come in with cigarette burns or suspicious bruises...you would not believe the shit I saw. These are *little kids!* This was third and fourth grade I'm talking about here!

          I should have figured you'd drop in and shit all over this thread. You can go to Hell, along with the cowardly AC I just replied to, and for the same reason.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:12PM (21 children)

            And that should be reported but has nothing to do with a kid missing a meal. Apples and oranges. Or a strawman if you prefer.

            --
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            • (Score: 5, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Sunday April 09 2017, @11:43PM (20 children)

              by AthanasiusKircher (5291) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 09 2017, @11:43PM (#491385) Journal

              And that should be reported but has nothing to do with a kid missing a meal.

              From the post you just responded to:

              I can tell you many of my classmates on free lunch *were* malnourished. [...] Some of them told me that some days that lunch was the only meal they got.

              I'm pretty sure when lunch is the only meal a kid is getting, and you're in favor of denying them even that -- that's pretty much ALL about "a kid missing a meal."

              Apples and oranges.

              I'm sure some of these kids would love to have some of those.

              BTW, you know, when I was young and cocky and thought I knew better than everyone, because I came from a blue-collar family and was doing real well in school and seemed on the path to success -- I acted like an ass when we had a discussion in a class in school about poverty and welfare programs, etc. My teacher said, "But is it the KID's fault where they're born?" And I was the cold-hearted bastard just like you are now, and was like, "Sucks to be them -- but society can't prop up that crap! Survival of the fittest and all!"

              Then I grew up and realized other people who had spent a lot more time thinking deeply about such issues had come to different conclusions. And I read their books. I read their theories of just action and the founding ethics of a society. And I realized that while I was lucky as heck to be born smart even in a family that wasn't rich, a lot of kids are born dumb in a family that's even poorer -- but they could actually have a chance of doing something productive in society if SOMEONE would only give them a chance. Malnourished kids pretty much don't get that chance, because learning is impaired when you're hungry. You get sick more and miss more school when you're hungry. You fall behind.

              And perhaps to your point -- a lot of these kids then drop out of school and find solace in the only thing they can: having sex with other poor young people whom society never gave a chance to. Which of course leads to more pregnancies and more poor kids. Quite literally, by failing to support the kids of one generation, you make it more likely that the very problems you complain about in social dependency continue. People have been poor since the beginning of time. Lots of societies turned their backs on poor people a lot more than we do, and lots of kids used to starve a lot more than they do today. Guess what? That did NOT get rid of poor people. It did not stop them from reproducing.

              So, if you actually want to have a chance at SOLVING the dependency issue you complain about, what you need is to support programs that will hopefully push more kids out of that cycle of poverty and dependency. Is it an impossible goal? Probably yeah. But unless you are literally going to go around and kill all the poor people and their kids, I'm not sure there's a better option.

              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 10 2017, @12:36AM (19 children)

                Then I grew up and realized other people who had spent a lot more time thinking deeply about such issues had come to different conclusions.

                Yes. Stop for a moment and consider who it was doing the thinking. Who has time to think deeply about issues that utterly do not concern them? That's right. Privileged, silver spoon still in the mouth rich kids who want to do something to give the finger to daddy.

                ...what you need is to support programs that will hopefully push more kids out of that cycle of poverty and dependency.

                You're absolutely correct. Be happy to. But I can see how to do it without making slaves out of them, which is precisely what handouts do.

                --
                We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
                • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday April 10 2017, @12:46AM (16 children)

                  by NotSanguine (285) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 10 2017, @12:46AM (#491401) Homepage Journal

                  You're absolutely correct. Be happy to. But I can see how to do it without making slaves out of them, which is precisely what handouts do.

                  Please enlighten us. I'm pretty sure most of us would like to break that cycle.

                  It would be objectively good for society, both economically and socially.

                  --
                  No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
                  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 10 2017, @01:28AM (15 children)

                    Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

                    So, teach them. Don't make food/housing/etc... free. Make it easy for them to acquire actual marketable skills. Not college, something useful. And make it part of the K-12 education system so there's no excuses about not being able to afford it.

                    Will it work for everyone? No. Nothing will. It's logically impossible to get rid of poverty with how we calculate poverty. It will work for those who give a damn about making something better of themselves though and the rest can starve for all I care because they sure as hell don't care if they do or not.

                    --
                    We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
                    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 10 2017, @01:56AM (8 children)

                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 10 2017, @01:56AM (#491435)

                      You don't get it, do you? You're telling people with varying numbers of broken bones in their lower bodies to participate in the triathlon. Get it through your carrion-eating beaky skull, Uzzard: once you fall below a certain threshold, *you cannot effectively participate in the economy any longer.* And yes, I am including "doing well in school" in "the economy" here, as many opportunities and much money is contingent on grades.

                      The problem needs to be solved as early as possible, and one way you do it is not-goddammit-letting-kids-go-hungry. Do you not see the part where hunger makes them unable to study or learn? Where it makes their very brains and bodies not grow properly? We're not talking about just missing a meal here and there. We would spend a hell of a lot less on prisons, social programs, law enforcement, etc. if a bit of "preventive medicine" were applied. But no: you, and all your kind, would rather see them suffer now and damn the future costs, because something something free market blargle-whargle bootstraps hukka-ukka-urk-oorgh back in MAH day...

                      One more time: go to Hell. You are not fit to exist in human society.

                      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:54AM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:54AM (#491494)

                        It's all right to tell a man to lift himself by his own bootstraps, but it is a cruel jest to say to a bootless man that he ought to lift himself by his own bootstraps.

                        — Dr Martin Luther King, Jr

                      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 10 2017, @10:53AM (6 children)

                        No, darlin, you do not get it. By treating them as if they are incapable of achieving without your help you are being a condescending cunt who views yourself as better than them.

                        --
                        We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
                        • (Score: 1) by ewk on Monday April 10 2017, @01:24PM (2 children)

                          by ewk (5923) on Monday April 10 2017, @01:24PM (#491610)

                          So... you don't want us to help you trying to become a better person then? :-)

                          --
                          I don't always react, but when I do, I do it on SoylentNews
                          • (Score: 2, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 10 2017, @02:28PM (1 child)

                            That'd be like a JV pitcher giving advice to Kyle Hendricks. I'm already a much better person precisely because I assume people are just as capable as I am of making a life for themselves.

                            --
                            We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
                            • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:42PM

                              by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:42PM (#491676)

                              Wow.

                              Narcissistic and out of touch with reality. Pretty sure that is THE definition of sociopath. Mighty Buzztard seems more appropriate.

                        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 10 2017, @06:14PM (2 children)

                          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 10 2017, @06:14PM (#491796)

                          Giving them enough to eat so that they CAN achieve is the precise opposite of what you're saying, and you damn well know that. Don't you get it?! In order for them to achieve ANYTHING, *their bodies must have adequate fuel, macro-, and micro-nutrients available to them!*

                          Fuck you sideways. When you say "helping people means you think you're better than them" thing at ALL; you're projecting your own feelings in that situation onto other people, because sure as fuck YOU are so stunted and evil that the only reason YOU would help someone else is for the self-congratulatory tinglies.

                          Well, guess what? Most of us aren't sociopaths. Most of us know Rand is full of shit. Most of us are social animals. And some of us, Uzzard, understand that everyone and everything is connected, and that in a very real sense when one of us is hurting we're all diminished. And I mean this on the level of plain old money, too; we let these kids suffer and fail, and we're gonna be paying for it dozens of times over in prisons, ER care, homeless shelters, social programs, you name it. This is not only the right thing to do morally, it's the right thing to do fiscally.

                          Piss the hell off with this. You don't have a single original or useful thought in your corpse-defiling buzzard skull that doesn't relate to coding, and the entire community knows it.

                          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @10:31PM (1 child)

                            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @10:31PM (#491977)

                            all those costs you name are more ills of socialism. of course your logic is correct, if we have to coddle them from birth to death. socialism is un-american. glad i don't fund the scum at the irs. people like you already have it spent wrong.

                            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @11:42PM

                              by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @11:42PM (#492021)

                              Yeah, god forbid we feed the children who will grow up to be citizens. It would be SO horrible if we taught that that generosity and looking out for your neighbors is a good thing. Much better that we let them suffer throughout childhood, get a shitty job with their shitty grades, and then turn to crime when they see no other viable alternative. Yup, that sounds just about perfect!

                              but but MAH MOOONIEEEESSSS! scum

                    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by tftp on Monday April 10 2017, @02:04AM

                      by tftp (806) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 10 2017, @02:04AM (#491438) Homepage

                      In university quite a few teachers threw some optional assignments at us, like "by the way, what will happen with the spectra of these signals if this and that is done? Prove this to me, and you get one point. Get $n points over the duration of the course, and then from the $m questions at the exam you can pick and answer only $k." Students are always interested in such things. There is no loss to the education because each independently researched and proved theorem is worth ten that are copied off of the blackboard and then visually memorized.

                      How can a poor child be motivated to earn his own lunch? By studying beyond the minimal norm, for example. Education is the mandatory job of children anyway. Poor children will benefit from learning far more than those born with various utensils in their mouths. Creative teachers can always put together a bunch of interesting assignments that entertain and educate. For example, an independently researched and delivered short lecture about "why is the sky blue," or some very gentle introdution to advanced math subjects, or some interesting facts about some book... perform the research, get a brownie point - a ticket for a free meal. That would be valuable to anyone if the saved money can be later spent on, say, ice cream... and will demonstrate that knowledge directly translates into wealth :-)

                    • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday April 10 2017, @11:47AM (4 children)

                      by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 10 2017, @11:47AM (#491586) Journal

                      I support teaching kids to be self-reliant. I do not think public schools in the US do a good job with that.

                      But letting them starve during key formative years will make them physically unable to be fully productive as adults and stamp them emotionally with resentment and hatred so deep that it will express itself in any number of deletarious ways later. That does not make sense.

                      Feeding and nurturing kids is always a good investment, no matter how you slice it, no matter what the cost.

                      --
                      Washington DC delenda est.
                      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 10 2017, @11:55AM (2 children)

                        Nothing ever said before "no matter what the cost" is ever correct.

                        --
                        We've got #BieberFever [soylentnews.org]!
                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @05:03PM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @05:03PM (#491742)

                          Nothing ever said before "no matter what the cost" is ever correct.

                          So you agree that a commitment to "free speech" no matter what the cost is incorrect.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @06:33PM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @06:33PM (#491813)

                          Absolutes, the phrases God looks for when he needs a laugh.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @10:36PM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @10:36PM (#491981)

                        i don't think anyone wants kids to starve but that's their parents' problem. However, if people want other people's kids to have food, then food charitiesshould easily have it covered. if not, then all the bleeding hearts are just generous with other people's money. Small towns could easily have community gardens where people grow their own food. instead, we steal from working people to feed them poisonous food. it's pitiful.

                • (Score: 3, Interesting) by AthanasiusKircher on Monday April 10 2017, @06:26PM (1 child)

                  by AthanasiusKircher (5291) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 10 2017, @06:26PM (#491804) Journal

                  Stop for a moment and consider who it was doing the thinking. Who has time to think deeply about issues that utterly do not concern them? That's right. Privileged, silver spoon still in the mouth rich kids who want to do something to give the finger to daddy.

                  Oh, I get it -- if you're a poor person who has worked their way up and argues in favor of helping poor people out, you're still just asking for handouts for your bros. If you're a rich person who argues in favor of helping poor people out, you're trying to "give the finger to daddy." Got it. Anyone who disagrees with you has some sort of chip on their shoulder and couldn't legitimately believe that this could be the best course for society.

                  And what precisely do you mean by "issues that utterly do not concern them"? YOU are debating these issues too, because you clearly think handouts and taxes and government programs concern YOU, so these issues are concerning YOU. And therefore YOU are voicing opinions too. Are you a "privileged, silver spoon still in the mouth rich kid" with daddy issues too?? Why are others disallowed from speaking on such things, but you are allowed?

                  Or is the problem the "think deeply" part? You're against actually thinking about serious issues and the consequences of policies, rather than just making stuff up based on what feels best to you with no thought put into it?

                  But I can see how to do it without making slaves out of them, which is precisely what handouts do.

                  Most of the people in this thread are talking about primary school kids. They don't have jobs. They don't have money independently of what is given to them by others. (Sidenote: is it a "handout" for a parent to give their kid lunch money, in your worldview? Or should they only get that lunch money after scrubbing the floors and sweeping the chimney?) So they have no financial control over whether they have lunch money or not.

                  Whatever you may think of the parents involved in this scenarios, this thread is discussing kids -- at school, sitting down during their lunch period, and whether or not they get something to eat (or whether they get something, but are publicly shamed about it). In some older societies, the sins of the father were held to the son as well, with kids punished for actions they had no control over. Our Founders were pretty much opposed to that concept. I'm willing to engage in arguments over how best to incentivize adult poor people to improve themselves, but when you start talking about "handouts" when referencing lunches at PUBLIC schools that kids are mandated to attend already... I really don't know how to respond.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @07:19PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @07:19PM (#491860)

                    I really don't know how to respond.

                    Indeed. I'm beginning to think the best response is "the cone of silence".

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:21AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:21AM (#491484)

            I'm a parent. Kids of that age like to skip the socks. It makes your shoes smelly, so I insist on socks, but the kids still like to run off without the socks.

            Girls have fewer odor issues and fewer urinary infections if they wear dresses without underwear.

            I'm sure I used to look like I had cigarette burns. I loved to use my soldering iron, despite being really unskilled.

            Some people are much more prone to bruising. If you are not a bruiser but somebody else is, you'll see a bruise they got from bumping the table and think they must have been beaten with a baseball bat. Wrong assumptions made my mother-in-law think that I might be beating my wife, who legitimately couldn't remember how she got the bruises. My mom managed to get full-leg bruises from climbing back into a canoe.

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 10 2017, @05:31AM

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 10 2017, @05:31AM (#491510)

              Sure, every single one of them just liked to freebird and was prone to stair falls. Right. God damn, but some people will do ANYTHING to erase the mental image of child neglect and abuse.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:47PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @08:47PM (#491306)

      "And I'm proud to be an American..."

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @09:38PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @09:38PM (#491341)

      And meanwhile, we have private companies providing shelter for the homeless [marysplaceseattle.org] while the government throws away food if it isn't paid for.

      But please, continue to tell me how we need those benevolent government agencies to protect us from the greedy corporations.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @02:27AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @02:27AM (#491449)

      Why should the child to suffer because of their parents' choices? That kind of thinking went out of style a long time ago.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @12:31PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @12:31PM (#491603)

        Why should the child to suffer because of their parents' choices?

        it builds character

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