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posted by charon on Thursday April 20, @01:08PM   Printer-friendly
from the natural-enemies dept.

Government restrictions on religion and social hostilities involving religion increased in 2015 for the first time in three years, according to Pew Research Center's latest annual study on global restrictions on religion.

The share of countries with "high" or "very high" levels of government restrictions – i.e., laws, policies and actions that restrict religious beliefs and practices – ticked up from 24% in 2014 to 25% in 2015. Meanwhile, the percentage of countries with high or very high levels of social hostilities – i.e., acts of religious hostility by private individuals, organizations or groups in society – increased in 2015, from 23% to 27%. Both of these increases follow two years of declines in the percentage of countries with high levels of restrictions on religion by these measures.

Among the world's 25 most populous countries, Russia, Egypt, India, Pakistan and Nigeria had the highest overall levels of government restrictions and social hostilities involving religion. Egypt had the highest levels of government restrictions in 2015, while Nigeria had the highest levels of social hostilities.

Global Restrictions on Religion Rise Modestly

Does this reflect your personal experience ?


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @01:24PM (59 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @01:24PM (#496837)

    Jews, Muslims, and [American] Christians believe that the creator of the entire universe wants them to cut chunks of sexually pleasing flesh from little boys' sexual organs.

    Religion needs to go. The more restrictions, the better.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @01:26PM (38 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @01:26PM (#496839)

      I'll note that Egypt is a hotbed of female genital mutilation (90% of the women there have been circumcised); I'll also note that wherever there is female circumcision, there is also male circumcision.

      Religion is a mindrot.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by isostatic on Thursday April 20, @03:28PM (37 children)

        by isostatic (365) on Thursday April 20, @03:28PM (#496887) Journal

        I'll note that Egypt is a hotbed of female genital mutilation (90% of the women there have been circumcised);

        It's shocking, however 91% of boys born in the 70s in The US were circumcised, the US is a hotbed of male genital mutilation, and we tend to hold western countries to higher standards.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:38PM (13 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:38PM (#496895)

          Is it any wonder that nobody takes the West seriously on the matter of female genital mutilation?

          Muslims, who traditionally circumcise boys when they are adolescents, know what's what: If you condone cutting up boys' sexual organs, then it makes no sense to condemn cutting up girls' sexual organs.

          Don't think there's a double standard? Think again.

          It's illegal, and determined to be a mutilation, under international and national law even to prick with a pin the labia of a minor female; yet, male circumcision removes upwards of 50% of a boy's penis skin, much of which is specialized to providing both protection of and sexual pleasure for the sex organ.

          It's insane. The US is insane. YOU ARE ALL INSANE!

          • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday April 20, @04:34PM (11 children)

            by Grishnakh (2831) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @04:34PM (#496923)

            To be fair, what I'm hearing now is that MGM has been on a downward trend in the US for some time now, except among Jews of course.

            • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Thursday April 20, @04:45PM (10 children)

              by isostatic (365) on Thursday April 20, @04:45PM (#496930) Journal

              Jews and Muslims are practically the same in their beliefs.

              I'm glad that in the UK it's gone in the right direction

              An estimated 3.8% of male children in the UK in 2000 were being circumcised by the age of 15.[44] The researchers stated that too many boys, especially under the age of 5, were still being circumcised because of a misdiagnosis of phimosis. They called for a target to reduce the percentage to 2%.

              In the US though things are bad

              In 2005, about 56 percent of male newborns were circumcised prior to release from the hospital according to statistics from the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality.[21]

              A 2008 study of male infants born in the US state of Maryland found that the circumcision rate was 75.3% based on hospital discharge data files, and 82.3% based on maternal post-partum survey data.[28]

              The CDC reported in 2011 that, following an earlier increase in neonatal circumcision rates, rates decreased in the period 1999 to 2010. Citing three different data sources, most recent rates were 56.9% in 2008 (NHDS) 56.3% in 2008 (NIS), and 54.7% in 2010 (CDM).[32]

              Quotes from wikipedia.

              OK, 50-70% is not 90% bad, but it's still very very bad.

              • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday April 20, @05:10PM (9 children)

                by Grishnakh (2831) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @05:10PM (#496939)

                Right, but what is the trend? I'm pretty sure the male circumcision rate in the US was quite a bit higher 40+ years ago, probably well over 90%.

                From what I hear, over in continental Europe it's pretty rare outside of Jewish communities. It's really a strange US custom that doesn't seem to be very correlated with religion.

                • (Score: 4, Informative) by AthanasiusKircher on Thursday April 20, @05:35PM (8 children)

                  by AthanasiusKircher (5291) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @05:35PM (#496952) Journal

                  Yes, it is in decline in the U.S.

                  It's really a strange US custom that doesn't seem to be very correlated with religion.

                  Well, it is correlated with Judaism and Islam. But otherwise, it's mostly correlated with the rise of a distinctive American religion, i.e., organized "medicine."

                  I already said this a bit below, but basically nobody who wasn't Jewish (or Muslim) in the U.S. in the mid-1800s was circumcised. But then doctors started using it as a "treatment" for various conditions. In some cases, it was a legitimate treatment, but in the final decades of the 1800s it became more standard for physicians to use it for all sorts of conditions that vaguely might have to do with genitals. It was a small step from that idea to the recommendation that infants be circumcised as a preventative. This became common on the advice of the burgeoning organized licensed physician movement in the U.S. in the early 1900s.

                  Within a few decades, better understanding of many diseases meant that the original justifications no longer made sense, but doctors continued to advocate it (along with a battery of other weird stuff, a lot of which was borderline quackery) as part of their "hygiene" guidelines until the mid 20th century. (Part of those "hygiene" concerns, it should be noted, had to do with prevention of masturbation, which was also viewed by physicians as a matter of "hygiene" in that period -- and circumcision supposedly lessened it.)

                  By ca. 1950, medical science had basically progressed to the point that any reasonable medical researcher could probably figure out that circumcision was unnecessary unless there was some serious physical issue... and yet it continued to be recommended by most doctors, largely because of the authoritarian structure of medical education in the U.S., which traditionally focused not on the most recent research, but on what a more experienced and senior physician told you was his opinion of the best practice.

                  Seriously -- until the past few decades, there's a lot of the rise of organized medicine in the U.S. that looks a lot more like religious doctrine, propagated through societies of "initiates" who don ceremonial white coats, rather than "science." (Just in the past couple decades, with the rise of the "evidence-based medicine," the authoritarian education of doctors has finally started to decline more.) Thankfully, a lot of the quackery gradually worked itself out over the generations, but circumcision had become so well established by the mid-20th century as standard practice in the U.S. that parents EXPECTED it. To this day, the best predictor of whether an infant is circumcised in the U.S. has little to do with religion or socioeconomic status or race or whatever -- but with "whether Daddy is circumcised," because parents want kids who "look like Daddy."

                  But if you're looking for someone to "blame" for the rise of circumcision, look at the religion-like indoctrination propagated by the burgeoning medical profession in the early 20th century.

                  • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Thursday April 20, @05:52PM

                    by AthanasiusKircher (5291) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @05:52PM (#496964) Journal

                    By the way -- I should be clear that I obviously acknowledge modern medicine did a lot of good things. I only wanted to highlight the stronger role of tradition and authority in medicine and clinical practice, which often ended up promoting strange or even barbaric practices with little scientific evidence of effectiveness.

                  • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday April 20, @06:04PM

                    by bob_super (1357) on Thursday April 20, @06:04PM (#496971)

                    Bias in the research...
                    "If my dad and mom had me circumcised, it must be a great thing with positive effects"

                  • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Thursday April 20, @06:06PM (3 children)

                    by AthanasiusKircher (5291) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @06:06PM (#496972) Journal

                    Sorry, one other thing I forgot to mention that played into this -- many people today don't realize this, but until the late 1900s doctors basically were taught that babies couldn't feel pain.

                    I'm absolutely serious. It sounds INSANE, but it was standard medical teaching. Until the 1980s, lots of physicians performed major surgeries (like open heart surgeries) on babies with no anaesthesia. (Granted, anaesthesia was much more risky in earlier generations, but the idea that it wouldn't even be necessary for infants because they couldn't feel pain... that's the sort of nonsense only doctors could believe.)

                    Anyhow, keep that in mind when you're judging the whole circumcision thing -- doctors legitimately believed that lopping off a chunk of a newborn's penis caused no pain (despite the screaming that inevitably resulted). It makes it a lot easier to understand how physicians could advocate mutilating infants given what they were taught back then about it all.

                    By the way, if you don't believe me about this, here's the New York Times [nytimes.com] reporting on how major medical journals finally were acknowledging that infants experience pain... in 1987.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @10:09PM (2 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @10:09PM (#497089)

                      Interesting, I hadn't heard that one. I found a review (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23548489) that claims the science was so settled in the 1950s on this topic that no one bothered talking about it anymore. In fact they started inflicting "not pain" on infants for diagnostic purposes (since they would still "react").

                      • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Thursday April 20, @10:24PM (1 child)

                        by AthanasiusKircher (5291) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @10:24PM (#497093) Journal

                        Thanks for the study link. It's one in a series of very strange medical traditions that continued into recent years. To this day, many older physicians don't bother even giving a local anesthetic to an infant before circumcision, despite the fact that safe practices for doing so have been known for decades, with extremely low risk for adverse effects. This practice is basically a holdover from the older belief that pain to infants doesn't matter... Except it does. (Subsequent studies have shown longer -term behavioral differences in infants who have been circumcised without any pain relief, as well as higher risks of complications afterwards, probably due to the shock the extreme pain sends their systems into.)

                  • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday April 20, @09:47PM (1 child)

                    by Grishnakh (2831) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @09:47PM (#497082)

                    That's a good analysis, but remember that other western countries (mainly western Europe, plus places like Aus/NZ, Japan, and even Hispanic nations in Latin America, etc.) also have very similar medical systems with a lot of sharing between them, but the circumcision thing is mainly American. So why did America get stuck on it, but no one else did?

                    • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Thursday April 20, @10:44PM

                      by AthanasiusKircher (5291) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @10:44PM (#497098) Journal

                      It seems to be an English-language thing, likely because most of the doctors promoting the early theories spoke and wrote in English. The UK, Australia, etc. had high rates too. According to this [wikipedia.org], a 2005 poll in Australia had 58% of males saying they were circumcised. (There's a marked decline in circumcision for infants, but traditionally it was much higher.) And there are countries (e.g., South Korea) which have a high rate of circumcision solely due to contact and influence of Americans.

                      Apparently the UK had a high rate of circumcision too until the late 1940s, when a combination of a prominent article pointing out the flawed science and the founding of the new National Health Service (which refused to include it in its list of covered services) caused its incidence to drop dramatically. Canada had the same trend, where rates were high until the 1970s or so, and then provinces started dropping coverage for the procedure (unless medically necessary), so its use has been declining there significantly too.

                      Basically, it's mostly an English language thing within medicine. And apparently Americans keep doing it because insurance covers it.

          • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday April 20, @06:26PM

            by DeathMonkey (1380) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @06:26PM (#496982) Journal

            It's illegal, and determined to be a mutilation, under international and national law even to prick with a pin the labia of a minor female; yet, male circumcision removes upwards of 50% of a boy's penis skin, much of which is specialized to providing both protection of and sexual pleasure for the sex organ.

            Yes, welcome to Christian Sharia Law.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:41PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:41PM (#496897)

          Never forget that the American Academy of Pediatrics, the organization that believes they have the right to violently impose choices about your body, wants to bring the USA to Egypt's level [psychologytoday.com].

          That's what I could find with a quick search. In 2010, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommended routine female genital mutilation.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @03:54AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @03:54AM (#497218)

            In 2017, the World Academy of Soylentils recommends routine Pediatric mutilation doctor throat mutilation. No complaints has been filed by any doctor, though they have not payed the medical bill. Why that is so we are currently investigating.

            :p

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:48PM (20 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:48PM (#496900)

          Just wanted to point out that (male) circumcision and female genital mutilation are not at all comparable. The male procedure is but a little snip while the female operation is complete butchery. The difference is like between common flu and ebola.

          Read and vomit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation [wikipedia.org]

          • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:56PM (18 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:56PM (#496903)

            As the other AC pointed out, female genital mutilation includes pricking a girl's labia with a pin to draw a drop of blood. Boo Hoo.

            In contrast, even the most mild form of male circumcision destroys specialized sexual structures, and greatly diminishes (and often destroys) an entire mechanical aspect of the penis; male circumcision removes a proportionally huge swath of tissue from the penis, what becomes upwards of 15 square inches in the adult (I don't know about you, but my penis has gotten larger since I was an a child, let alone an infant).

            Male circumcision is disgusting—and it's often far more disgusting than the little nip of the clitoral hood that is performed on girls; in Egypt, female circumcision is performed by females, for females, on females.

            • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Thursday April 20, @04:40PM (6 children)

              by isostatic (365) on Thursday April 20, @04:40PM (#496927) Journal

              The way you're writing that implies that female genital mutilation is more acceptable. I strongly disagree. Neither is acceptable, just like removing an arm is unacceptable, and removing a leg is unacceptable.

              • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @04:50PM (5 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @04:50PM (#496934)

                I won't sit here and let you fools try to say "Hey, but wait, like, the womenfolk have it much worse!" It's just not true. IT'S JUST NOT TRUE.

                • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Thursday April 20, @08:07PM

                  by isostatic (365) on Thursday April 20, @08:07PM (#497035) Journal

                  Which I believe is what I said - removing an arm is no more (or less) acceptable than removing a leg

                • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @09:01PM (3 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @09:01PM (#497060)

                  Log in please, we'd like to see who has the massive persecuted white male complex.

                  • (Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Thursday April 20, @09:39PM (2 children)

                    by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Thursday April 20, @09:39PM (#497080) Journal

                    Can't claim GP comment as mine but frankly fuck you. How the fuck is a pin prick worse than amputating an entire organ?

                    Oh, oh, oh, a clitoris that's forced to be an external organ is just soooooo awful! It's sooooooo awful! A Hunny got hurt!

                    Because the glans is a totally different organ that god meant to be an external organ, just he was drunk a put a clitoral hood, er, foreskin over it by accident, right?

                    Intact bodies are something only women deserve? Fuck you.

                    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday April 20, @11:38PM

                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday April 20, @11:38PM (#497122)

                      This coming from an MtF is hilarious.

                      So, how about this?: NO ONE HARMS OUR BABIES' GENITALIA, MALE OR FEMALE. Sounds weird coming from a lesbian feminist, maybe? I don't care. All our babies are precious and harming any of them for any superstitious reason is societal insanity. We're failing our boys, too, as a society.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @03:36AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @03:36AM (#497209)

                      Weird weird weeeird response. Why can't we just say that genital mutilation is wrong whether male or female? As an intact male I can tell you that the foreskin is way less sensitive than the head, and I don't have a clitoris so I can't comment but being a major erogenous zone I would expect even minor pinprick could be quite painful. Also, as an intact male I can tell you that when the head is exposed it can be VERY sensitive. So I imagine a clitoris is the same way and once it is exposed it probably takes a while for any contact to stop hurting.

                      You are way out there Kurenai, I've seen you get angry at people with little provocation, but to take what I said as condemning only female mutilation? You should really work on your reactionary behavior, if you're doing it online to this degree it probably comes out in real life as well and it is not ok.

                      My more cynical side imagines that you are a fictional persona used to troll liberals by being an "untouchable" that can spout hatred that liberals (or whatever) won't push back against. Well, either way, FUCK YOU for trying to project that bullshit on to me.

            • (Score: 3, Informative) by bob_super on Thursday April 20, @06:33PM (7 children)

              by bob_super (1357) on Thursday April 20, @06:33PM (#496986)

              > As the other AC pointed out, female genital mutilation includes pricking a girl's labia with a pin to draw a drop of blood.

              Did you read that wikipedia page?
              There are multiple FGM types. The worst, which are very common include cutting off the labia and clitoris.

              Male circumcision is barbaric, but they cut the skin only, not the actual penis.

              • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by kurenai.tsubasa on Thursday April 20, @07:33PM (6 children)

                by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Thursday April 20, @07:33PM (#497016) Journal

                The worst, which are very common include cutting off the labia and clitoris.

                You're confused by feminist propaganda. Besides that one incident with, who was it, Boko Haram? a while back in Africa, citation or it didn't happen.

                What can and does happen is that a clitoral cut becomes infected, necessitating the removal of additional tissue. That was the reasoning behind the American Academy of Pediatrics' 2010 recommendation that US hospitals should begin performing clitoral slicing/pin-prick. It was meant as a harm-reduction measure.

                Feminists have hopelessly fucked this issue up. They tell lies about female circumcision to activate your instincts to protect the Hunnies, and they act like male circumcision is not only risk-free but necessary to prevent cervical cancer (again, protect the Hunnies because males are nothing more than sexual objects even as infants).

                You know what, though? Not a single goddamned feminist knows what it's like to live with a fucked up circumcision. There are males born right here in West who have lost their entire reproductive system because of circumcision. Cock, balls, whole nine yards. Went in for a "snip," left as a eunuch.

                But hey, if somebody fucks up your circumcision enough, I hear they'll let you into the womyn-born-womyn gender caste [latimes.com].

                R.I.P. David Reimer, a victim of male genital mutilation in a horrifying way that somebody cisgendered cannot even begin to imagine.

                • (Score: 4, Informative) by bob_super on Thursday April 20, @07:45PM (3 children)

                  by bob_super (1357) on Thursday April 20, @07:45PM (#497020)

                  > You're confused by feminist propaganda.

                  Besides Wikipedia, I do indeed reserve my FGM-porn intake exclusively from official feminist agencies based in countries ruled by rabid feminist women:
                  For example: http://www.aljazeera.com/topics/issues/fgm.html [aljazeera.com]

                • (Score: 3, Funny) by c0lo on Friday April 21, @02:42PM (1 child)

                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 21, @02:42PM (#497421)

                  their entire reproductive system... Cock, balls, whole nine yards

                  This got me thinking... why-oh-why those emails in my spam folder advertise only 12 inches of reproductive system if 9 yards are the norm?

                  • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Friday April 21, @04:49PM

                    by kaszz (4211) on Friday April 21, @04:49PM (#497487) Journal

                    Your email hasn't been enlaaarged yet!
                    Please type in your credit card number, social security, all STDs etc. And it will be fixed, we promise. ;)

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 20, @08:34PM (2 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @08:34PM (#497046) Journal

              As the other AC pointed out, female genital mutilation includes pricking a girl's labia with a pin to draw a drop of blood. Boo Hoo.

              And it includes other things far more destructive (such as type III "infibulation" which has been practiced [who.int] on over 8 million women).

              what becomes upwards of 15 square inches in the adult

              So it is true that they aren't snipping 15 square inches of skin.

              I find it interesting that you can't protest male circumcision without exaggerating male circumcision and trivializing female circumcision. For the record, I used to favor male circumcision, but wouldn't now. But it's ridiculous how exaggerated the argument provided here is. I won't respect your pain or concern more just because you're dismissing other peoples' pain.

              • (Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Thursday April 20, @09:34PM (1 child)

                by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Thursday April 20, @09:34PM (#497076) Journal

                Amazing you don't find it interesting the mental contortions feminists go through to minimize ritual infant sexual objectification.

                Let me guess, fuck the victims of male circumcision, huh? Somebody's dick gets burned off by a laser scalpel, and it's just lol! to you. Less competition for the Hunnies, right?

                So why the fuck should you listen to feminists about this? The feminist argument consists solely of dismissing other people's pain. But it's ok with you to dismiss another man's pain or complete loss of reproductive capability because that's just more Hunnies for you, right?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @04:16PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @04:16PM (#496912)

            Get your head out of your ass. 15 square inches of adult skin is not a "little snip." A fucking pinprick is not "complete butchery."

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @01:33PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @01:33PM (#496842)

      Indeed. If there were any better proof that men are not angels, it's ritual infant genital mutilation.

      How can an infant possibly enter into a consenting, voluntary agreement or contract?

      Even the practice of immunization has an implied contract. If a toddler is harmed by a vaccine, there is a fund that will pay for additional medical expenses to try to make the victim whole.

      With genital mutilation, the infant's body is violated in a horrific way for merely cosmetic reasons, doctors pocket the cash to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars per year, and there is not even an implied contract whereby the infant receives some form of tangible benefit and has recourse to be made whole again if it goes wrong.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @04:16PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @04:16PM (#496913)

        "If a toddler is harmed by a vaccine, there is a fund that will pay for additional medical expenses to try to make the victim whole."

        give me a break! there are toddlers being brain damaged all over the country. these monsters don't pay for shit. that whole court was set up to minimize damages. don't be so fucking naive.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @06:38PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @06:38PM (#496993)

          Point taken, but isn't it interesting that they at least pretend they're being responsible when it comes to vaccinations?

          When it comes to mutilating somebody's body and sexually assaulting them as an infant, we just blithely go about it as though nothing can possibly go wrong.

          Heck, since when has the media even acknowledged that we routinely rape male infants of their right to "my body, my choice?" When has the media ever acknowledged the ethical depravity in the American Academy of Pediatrics' proposal that routine infant male genital mutilation is the best way to prevent cervical cancer?

          At least the media will play up the autism-vaccine link for clicks.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 20, @08:36PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @08:36PM (#497047) Journal

        for merely cosmetic reasons

        What are those "cosmetic reasons" again? Last I heard, it was prevention of sexually transmitted disease and religion, neither which is cosmetic.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @02:53PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @02:53PM (#496871)

      More restrictions means more control. Then more people will get curious as to what it is that some 'government' (infiltrated by lowlife scum) is trying to stop. So there will be war, and blood will be spilled.

      Anyway, who is this person (or group) who will add more restrictions on 'some' religion(s) and not others? Who will make sure this upholder of justice and friend of the people is not the very gutter rat who is the enemy of all people?

      Oh I get it... it is someone _you_ approve of, and someone _you_ control. It is always groups in the shadows that control those who are in full view. They are the puppet masters. They pull the politicians', militaries' strings. The masters of deceit and lies.

      Better put your energies into building a better future for humanity, so that the need for religion and the identity it gives you is reduced.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:19PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:19PM (#496885)

        It is already illegal to cut flesh from a completely healthy child's penis; any logical reading of modern law leads one to conclude that such an action is child abuse, sexual assault, battery, etc.

        So, it doesn't require more control; it just requires the enforcement of existing law. However, religion warps a person's mind, and makes it impossible for him or her to think logically.

        That being said, it's not even necessary to rely on existing law; it would be enough to induce a cultural revolution, whereby mothers make faces at other mothers for cutting up their children's intimate sexual organs for no justifiable reason.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Wootery on Thursday April 20, @03:35PM (1 child)

          by Wootery (2341) on Thursday April 20, @03:35PM (#496891)

          It is already illegal to cut flesh from a completely healthy child

          No it isn't, not in the meaningful sense. Let's not be obtuse.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:41PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:41PM (#496898)

            You cannot help but come to the conclusion that it is already illegal. It just so happens that the law is only as good as its enforcers, and the enforcers are all circumcised or afraid of being called "anti-Semitic".

            Of course, it is possible for the law to be contradictory; for instance, a German judge concluded that the circumcision of a minor is illegal in Germany according to national and international law, but the German legislation process quickly made it legal.

      • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Thursday April 20, @03:30PM (2 children)

        by isostatic (365) on Thursday April 20, @03:30PM (#496890) Journal

        More restrictions means more control. Then more people will get curious as to what it is that some 'government' (infiltrated by lowlife scum) is trying to stop. So there will be war, and blood will be spilled.

        Is it legal for a parent to remove an arm from their child? Or an eye? If it is, why? Isn't that an affront to freedom?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @07:11PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @07:11PM (#497011)

          It's not illegal to kill the infant when it's still being carried inside the mother. Is that not an affront to freedom?

          Just saying

          • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Thursday April 20, @08:11PM

            by isostatic (365) on Thursday April 20, @08:11PM (#497038) Journal

            It is illegal once the baby is old enough to survive without the mother.

    • (Score: 2) by bradley13 on Thursday April 20, @03:36PM (5 children)

      by bradley13 (3053) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @03:36PM (#496892) Homepage Journal

      Religion needs to go

      Perhaps, but not by government mandate. Governments pushing individual behavior underground just doesn't work. See the "war on drugs" in the US for a stunning example of failure.

      Want religion to wither? It is already doing so nicely in the West, simply due to decent living standards and education. If your life here and today is decent, you don't have to hope for some phantom paradise later.

      --
      Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by DannyB on Thursday April 20, @03:49PM (4 children)

        by DannyB (5839) on Thursday April 20, @03:49PM (#496901)

        Religion is withering so nicely and becoming so insignificant in the west that 83% of professing Evangelical Christians voted for the present administration. An administration that wants to filter incoming refugees by religion by disguising that filter with some other label.

        Personally, I do have hope for paradise later, but that doesn't stop me from wanting decent living, education, health care, etc in the here and now. So I don't seem agree with that other 83%.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @04:00PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @04:00PM (#496905)

          I always knew you were an idiot.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @09:04PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @09:04PM (#497061)

            Paradise is relative, some people will accept "decent jobs, education, and healthcare" as paradise compared to the shitshow we've got now.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Thursday April 20, @04:42PM

          by Grishnakh (2831) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @04:42PM (#496928)

          The USA is not like the rest of the west. It's a lot like Turkey compared to the EU.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @06:37PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @06:37PM (#496992)

          Religion is withering so nicely and becoming so insignificant

          Except for Jews, of course.

          I do have hope for paradise later, but that doesn't stop me from wanting decent living, ...

          The fact is that the Jews are responsible for taking away your decent living, education, health care, ...

          They make you pay for what is (and should be) already yours, so you keep working harder and harder but never quite make it.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by DannyB on Thursday April 20, @03:36PM (2 children)

      by DannyB (5839) on Thursday April 20, @03:36PM (#496893)

      First, obligatory sarcasm:
      Religion is the best way to heal a world that is deeply and violently divided by religion.

      Next, an observation.
      I find it amusing that the new testament is specific that physical circumcision is not what is important.
      If you are talking to a Christian who insists that circumcision is necessary, point these out.

      1 Corinthians 7:19 [biblegateway.com]

      Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.

      Galatians 5:6 [biblegateway.com]

      For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

      That second one has a larger interesting context. In short, a group was insisting on circumcision. Paul argues it is unnecessary, but I love his conclusion in verse 12:

      12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

      Perhaps those today who would argue for circumcision should heed that advice, from Paul, right in the bible, the NT even. If you're a big supporter of circumcision for religious reasons, especially Christian, then go the whole way!

      • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Thursday April 20, @04:48PM (1 child)

        by AthanasiusKircher (5291) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @04:48PM (#496933) Journal

        Who are these Christians who advocate circumcision on the basis of Christianity? As you rightly point out, for most of Christian history, circumcision was associated with Jews. It was frequently used by Christians who wanted to find Jews and persecute them. Paul says you don't have to do it. All Christian denominations I know of are basically neutral on the subject.

        The reason non-Jewish Americans do it has nothing to do with religion and a lot to do with suspect "hygiene" guidelines doctors came up with about a century ago. It's mostly propagated in the U.S. not because of Christianity but because there is ignorance about how unnecessary it is and because of a desire to have kids "look like daddy."

        Lots of bad stuff to blame on Christianity in history, but I'm really not sure this is one of them.

        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday April 21, @12:12PM

          Circumcision was proposed as a way of discouraging masturbation, by a Quaker. No religious influence there at all, no siree.
          --
          I was worried about my command. I was the scientist of the Holy Ghost.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @01:26PM (17 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @01:26PM (#496838)

    Religion is perhaps the best evidence that men are not angels yet they are deluded enough to think themselves angels.

    Moslems and Christians need control. It's the only way to handle those barbaric and violent ideologies.

    Voluntary agreements/contracts with Christians or Moslems aren't possible, because you don't comply, they'll cut off your head or bomb your workplace.

    They are warlords, and the only answer to a warlord is to band together under an opposing warlord called government.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @01:30PM (14 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @01:30PM (#496840)

      Banding together sounds like voluntary agreements/contracts; there's no inherent reason that a warlord need be fought by a warlord.

      Try again, young Padawan.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @01:40PM (13 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @01:40PM (#496846)

        No, there isn't an inherent reason for the state of things, not one to be derived from a system of voluntary contracts on its face.

        People may band together in voluntary contracts to fend off a warlord, and that can be the scope and duration of the contract.

        However, warlords are ever desiring to take what is not theirs by any agreement anybody has with them, and there is an endless supply of warlords.

        The inherent reason is to be found in man's nature itself. Man, by nature, is a warlord, unless we can find a way to guide him towards a more angelic nature.

        In that capacity, religion can be a boon, but not the Abrahamic religions. Religions such as Buddhism or Taoism may be the path men would follow to become angels who prefer entering into voluntary agreements with the goal of eliminating undefined and thus dangerous behavior.

        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @01:48PM (12 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @01:48PM (#496850)

          Acknowledging that humans cannot be angels is acknowledging that society should never be built around a monopoly on imposition (let alone a monopoly on violent imposition).

          If a monopoly is inherently unworkable, then it must be a separation of powers (that is, there must be checks and balances); the most extreme and general form of a separation of powers is competition within a market, and such competition would be rendered all the more robust in the context of a culture that reveres voluntary interaction, where "voluntary" is defined as "according to well-defined agreements in advance of interaction".

          Bastiat wrote the following around 1848 [bastiat.org]:

          If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? The organizers maintain that society, when left undirected, rushes headlong to its inevitable destruction because the instincts of the people are so perverse. The legislators claim to stop this suicidal course and to give it a saner direction. Apparently, then, the legislators and the organizers have received from Heaven an intelligence and virtue that place them beyond and above mankind; if so, let them show their titles to this superiority.

          They would be the shepherds over us, their sheep. Certainly such an arrangement presupposes that they are naturally superior to the rest of us. And certainly we are fully justified in demanding from the legislators and organizers proof of this natural superiority.

          Please understand that I do not dispute their right to invent social combinations, to advertise them, to advocate them, and to try them upon themselves, at their own expense and risk. But I do dispute their right to impose these plans upon us by law—by force—and to compel us to pay for them with our taxes.

          I do not insist that the supporters of these various social schools of thought — the Proudhonists, the Cabetists, the Fourierists, the Universitarists, and the Protectionists — renounce their various ideas. I insist only that they renounce this one idea that they have in common: They need only to give up the idea of forcing us to acquiesce to their groups and series, their socialized projects, their free-credit banks, their Graeco-Roman concept of morality, and their commercial regulations. I ask only that we be permitted to decide upon these plans for ourselves; that we not be forced to accept them, directly or indirectly, if we find them to be contrary to our best interests or repugnant to our consciences.

          But these organizers desire access to the tax funds and to the power of the law in order to carry out their plans. In addition to being oppressive and unjust, this desire also implies the fatal supposition that the organizer is infallible and mankind is incompetent. But, again, if persons are incompetent to judge for themselves, then why all this talk about universal suffrage?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @02:03PM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @02:03PM (#496856)

            I wasn't expecting the violent imposition.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @02:12PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @02:12PM (#496859)

              Good day, sir.

            • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @02:45PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @02:45PM (#496869)

              Nobody expects the violent imposition!

              Fetch... THE COMFY CHAIR!

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @12:16AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @12:16AM (#497133)

                I am sick and tired of all the motherfucking violent imposition on this motherfucking plane!

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @03:55AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @03:55AM (#497219)

                  SNEKS!!?!

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @02:34PM (6 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @02:34PM (#496865)

            With the continual threat of warlords, what other kind of structure could emerge other than another warlord that the vast majority of people can consent to? That is the system of government present in democracy. However, as we see the descent of constitutional democracy into direct democracy, the warlord becomes less agreeable to a growing minority until 49% of people under that warlord do not consent.

            But what can they do other than band together and form another warlord? Even if we believe that the creation of this warlord and arrangement of this revolt were temporary, the minute the warlord the 49% banded together consensually for the sole purpose of waging war with the warlord who represents the 51% expires, no matter how angelic in nature the 49% are with an independent political system based only on voluntary contracts, the 51%'s warlord will come.

            What I'm arguing is that a warlord called a government is what the market has decided.

            Yet we see that not all people consent to democractic control of their warlord in any form, constitutional, republican (small r), or direct. When given the chance, these people engage in a mass negotiation called an election and consent, willingly and enthusiastically, to a dictatorship.

            If men could be angels, religion robs men of the hope of ever being angels. Under religion, violent imposition is a given, and people consensually, voluntarily submit to a warlord they believe best represents their religion. If there is one thing that continues to motivate me to make these posts, it is the Abrahamic religions and their ability to defile what little angelic potential man has.

            Why should I have the right to violently impose my idea of what a man should be on another man?

            Of course I don't. However, men who want to violently impose their idea of what a man should be on me are never, ever going away. And unfortunately, they're the 51% of voters who reject a common market and a common currency, who want nationalism, who want theocracy, who want border walls, who want dictatorships.

            All of these recent events have been 51% to 49%. I tend to think that such a pattern is beyond any kind of probability; it must be evidence that these "elections" are themselves faked. However, the 51% demonstrate that it is not fake at all by their continued support of a warlord many of us find abhorrent.

            I now find myself at an impasse. Your system is not workable because men are not angels. My system is miserable because men are not angels.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:09PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:09PM (#496877)
              • Statism is a religion. Just consider the hymns, the pledges of allegiance, the holidays, the pageants, the origin myths, the sacred symbols, and the irrational reverence coupled to one's own sense of identity, etc.

              • Democracy is a sham; it's not different from a dictatorship: One group is dictating to another group.

              • The natural progression towards liberty is one of increasing decentralization: One warlord is ripped apart into 2 warlords; 2 warlords are ripped apart in to 4 warlords, and so on, until there is nothing but individual pitted against individual, each one finding that there is more profit in agreement in advance rather than in ambush.

                Let's not forget that technology is the enabler of such progress: For instance, the gun is known as "The Great Equalizer"—there is no such thing as a peasant when every man sports a foreboding sidearm (is it any wonder that the Universe's creatures tend to be constructed with lethal weapons such as teeth, spines, pincers, fists, and injectable or projectile poison?).

                • Logistically, a restrained monarchy seemed intractable, until the nobles realized that they could employ a new technology: A written document describing the constraints, which could be disseminated amongst the literate nobles.

                • Logistically, a representative democracy seemed intractable, until the population realized that they could employ a new technology: A written document describing the constraints, which could be mass produced and thereby disseminated amongst the literate little people, who would thereby be able to check the decisions of their representatives.

                  The innovation of the voting booth, and the wealth (including literacy) required to pay for such things, should not be discounted in understanding how it came to be.

                • Logistically, a pure democracy seemed intractable, until the population realized that they could employ a new technology: A network of supremely capable computing devices, which could cheaply collate their votes on any particular topic.

                Yet, this leaves us at a dead end: One group dictating to another group. The insight here is that imposition has taken us as far as we can go; a new plane of organization must be reached before things can be improved further.

                • Logistically, law customized to each individual seemed intractable, until the population realized that they could employ a new technology: Some kind of system for encoding, calculating, and interpreting contracts between individuals, allowing for "law" to be defined as the collection of all such contracts.

                Of course, the "government" as it exists today will be the tool for enforcing such contracts, but eventually...

                • Logistically, a market of competing contract enforcers seemed intractable, until the population realized that contract enforcers comprise an industry like any other: The technology used for establishing contracts between individuals was also suitable for constructing relationships to enforcers, thereby allowing all parts of the market to exist under a culture of contracts, and thereby find their shape according to the most fundamental process in the Universe: Evolution by variation and selection, a process which finds workable solutions even to problems that nobody knew existed.

              • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Friday April 21, @04:11AM

                by kaszz (4211) on Friday April 21, @04:11AM (#497226) Journal

                Evolution by variation and selection is a process that modern societies seems to try do away with at any price. Better let it work and keep a minimum level for those that fail.

              • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday April 21, @03:37PM

                by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 21, @03:37PM (#497455)

                Logistically, a pure democracy seemed intractable, until the population realized that they could employ a new technology: A network of supremely capable computing devices, which could cheaply collate their votes on any particular topic.

                You assume too much capability or ignore the complexity of the problem.
                Collation is the easiest problem in voting.

                What is hard:

                1. a single vote per person
                2. a vote that's freely expressed = a vote not influenced by coercion (duress) or incentive (bribe) (other than the dis/advantages that the voted issue will bring once its enters in reality
                3. a vote which, once expressed, cannot be modified or repudiated

                The first two requirements are divergent in eVoting: first requires the voter's identification, the second imply the voting act privacy. While they are easy to satisfy in the real world, its not the same in eVoting.
                The second and third requirement are divergent as well in evoting - a voter must be able to control her/his vote was not modified (while stored) without being able to show to anyone the way s/he voted (otherwise the second requirement will be violated).

                Sorry, but we aren't yet at the stage of such sophisticated protocols which would allow reliance on only "supremely capable computing devices" - a paper trail of one sort or another is still necessary.

                See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-to-end_auditable_voting_systems [wikipedia.org] as a start and, if curious, see where it will lead you.

            • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday April 20, @04:56PM (2 children)

              by Grishnakh (2831) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @04:56PM (#496935)

              The simple solution to the problem you see is separation: let the people who want nationalism, theocracy, dictatorships, etc. have their own nation, and stop bothering the rest of us. To do this, we need to work on splitting apart nations so that those people can have a large majority in their own districts, and then a minority in other districts.

              So, for instance, if we could have kicked the South out of the US before the 2016 elections, Bernie would probably have won the primaries (Hillary had really strong support in the South), and there's no way Trump would have won the general.

              Over in the UK, Scotland and Northern Ireland need to leave the UK and rejoin the EU separately (Northern Ireland might want to just rejoin regular Ireland). London should also secede from England, and form a separate city-state, and rejoin the EU. They can even have a direct rail line under the Channel going straight to London so that no border checks are necessary between them and the continent, only if they leave the city.

              Eventually, as the idiots either die off or see the error of their ways (as their economies turn 3rd-world), they might be allowed to rejoin, but under special conditions with lesser rights and privileges.

              • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday April 20, @11:53PM

                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday April 20, @11:53PM (#497125)

                Well, it was ol' Abe Lincoln who insisted on keeping the South in the Union. I always say the Union lost that war...

              • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Friday April 21, @04:15AM

                by kaszz (4211) on Friday April 21, @04:15AM (#497227) Journal

                It's already possible to vote against stupidity of government or your peers. It's called feet voting. No need to wait for next ballot or argue the case, just do it and let other suffer their implicit choices.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:12PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:12PM (#496882)

      Considering Russia is present in the list this is not even a control you are thinking of. In Russia Christian church is de facto government's left hand.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @06:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @06:25PM (#496980)

      Silently slipping Judaism past us, eh?

      Judaism says that Jews are God's chosen people (never mind the fact that they are Khazars, and are the filth of the planet).

      Jews need to be controlled. They need to be locked up on an island and watched 24/7.

      Any agreement made with Jews should be considered null and void because the Jews do not make promises with the expectation of keeping them.

      Jews are parasites who start wars by getting other peoples to fight on their behalf. When both sides are destroyed, they declare themselves rulers of the world.

      The whole world is victim of the Jews and we need insiders everywhere working to destroy their choke-hold on world affairs.

  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by ngarrang on Thursday April 20, @02:58PM (10 children)

    by ngarrang (896) on Thursday April 20, @02:58PM (#496874) Journal

    In 99% of the cases of religious violence, Islam is the primary offender. That is the common theme in all of the top countries listed. In India, it is Hindus committing the violence.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:13PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @03:13PM (#496883)

      In 100% of cases, the underlying cultural fault is a reverence for imposition; indeed, "Islam" means "submission" to a higher power.

      The solution: A reverence for agreement in advance of interaction; this precludes any sort of democracy, because democracy is based on the notion that it is OK for one group to dictate to another group.

    • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Thursday April 20, @03:48PM

      by butthurt (6141) on Thursday April 20, @03:48PM (#496899) Journal

      In 99% of the cases of religious violence, Islam is the primary offender. That is the common theme in all of the top countries listed.

      Just look at what happened in Moskow:

      No more mosques will be built in Moscow, despite the huge crowds that swamp the city's four public mosques on Muslim holidays, because they are mainly used by temporary workers, Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin has decided.

      [...] he insisted that the vast throngs of Muslims who fill Moscow streets and wait, often for many hours, to enter the city's few existing mosques are mostly people who come from outside the city limits and therefore have no right to be catered to.

      [...]

      One new mosque is presently under construction in Moscow, but that's the end of it, he added. "No new building permits will be issued. I think that's enough mosques for Moscow."

      -- http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2013/1121/Moscow-mayor-No-more-mosques-in-my-city [csmonitor.com]

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday April 20, @06:21PM (7 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @06:21PM (#496979) Journal

      In 99% of the cases of religious violence, Islam is the primary offender.

      Not if you live in the US.

      RIGHT-WING EXTREMISTS ARE A BIGGER THREAT TO AMERICA THAN ISIS [newsweek.com]

      They and untold thousands like them are the extremists who hide among us, the right-wing militants who, since 2002, have killed more people in the United States than jihadis have. In that time, according to New America, a Washington think tank, Islamists launched nine attacks that murdered 45, while the right-wing extremists struck 18 times, leaving 48 dead

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 20, @08:46PM (5 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @08:46PM (#497050) Journal
        And four months after that article was written, one Islamist launched an attack that killed 49 people. The article is sandwiched between the Orlando nightclub shooting [wikipedia.org] and 9/11 [wikipedia.org]. 9/11 would by itself have swamped the figures even if the World Trade Center towers hadn't collapsed.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @09:16PM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @09:16PM (#497063)

          I worry WAY more about white supremacists than I do about brown terrorists. On this site alone I have seen veiled death threats and gloating such as "we have more guns than your side". There is also a ton of evidence that 9/11 was allowed to happen, but sure stick your head in the sand and blame Muslims for all our problems. I'll worry more about the very real domestic terrorism we've got going on.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 21, @06:57AM (3 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 21, @06:57AM (#497277) Journal
            I can see the argument that we shouldn't be worrying all that much about terrorism in the first place. But to ignore that Islamic terrorism has killed almost a couple orders of magnitude more people in the US (and has a vastly higher kill count in the Middle East) and then tell me that I should instead be really worried about a faction that has supposedly killed 48 people over 13-14 years. I think there's a problem here.

            On this site alone I have seen veiled death threats and gloating such as "we have more guns than your side".

            So? What's the context of these alleged threats? What are they responding to? A key problem here is that you being an AC means you're not even a little bit credible here.

            Finally, I just don't agree that you have tons of evidence about 9/11 being "allowed".

            • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday April 21, @11:52PM (2 children)

              by aristarchus (2645) on Friday April 21, @11:52PM (#497674) Journal

              A key problem here is that you being an AC means you're not even a little bit credible here.

              khallow said this, yes, he did. khallow is not a real person, he just plays one on SN, and he stayed at a Holiday Inn. His not being an AC means he's even less credible than an AC. Irony meter has just gone to plaid. Must be the silvery slope.

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 22, @01:10AM (1 child)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 22, @01:10AM (#497712) Journal
                Here's what I observe.

                I see a reply which gives the impression that you think my post was flawed or incorrect in some way, but fails to coherently describe the flaw.

                There are a few things where having a SN nym lends credibility that an AC can't have. The nym doesn't magically make someone trustworthy, but it does allow me to show how long I've been here and that certain articles were posted by me.

                Let's look at the quote in question:

                On this site alone I have seen veiled death threats and gloating such as "we have more guns than your side".

                If you, aristarchus had posted this, then we would at least know that you have been on here for several years (through cursory examination of your posting history) and thus, have the opportunity to see veiled death threats and such. But this might be the first post for Mr. AC, who hasn't read a bit of SN aside from the current story and is just talking trash. We just don't know.

                The AC in question can of course, rectify this issue by linking to examples of the above. It really doesn't matter if he's honest or not, but how prevalent and of what sort of character this alleged speech is. The claim of seeing is just the claim of existence. But if it's an occasional bout of obvious, sarcastic joking by insincere trolls, that greatly weakens the case for caring about this evidence.

                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Saturday April 22, @03:23AM

                  by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday April 22, @03:23AM (#497773) Journal

                  Wow! A rational, reasoned response, when I was expecting The Forcible Imposition!

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @05:20AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @05:20AM (#497247)

        Lookup the percent of Muslims in your country and compare with that of other countries. Correlate this with number of extremely violent and indiscriminate acts of maiming and killing. However in some cases a hard line dictator succeeds to keep the situation calm.

        As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

        United States -- Muslim 0.6%
        Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
        Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
        China -- Muslim 1.8%
        Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
        Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

        At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

        Denmark -- Muslim 2%
        Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
        United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
        Spain -- Muslim 4%
        Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

        From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

        France -- Muslim 8%
        Philippines -- Muslim 5%
        Sweden -- Muslim 5%
        Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
        The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
        Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

        At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world. When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:

        Guyana -- Muslim 10%
        India -- Muslim 13.4%
        Israel -- Muslim 16%
        Kenya -- Muslim 10%
        Russia -- Muslim 15%

        After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

        Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

        At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

        Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
        Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
        Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

        From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and ***ya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

        Albania -- Muslim 70%
        Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
        Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
        Sudan -- Muslim 70%

        After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

        Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
        Egypt -- Muslim 90%
        Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
        Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
        Iran -- Muslim 98%
        Iraq -- Muslim 97%
        Jordan -- Muslim 92%
        Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
        Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
        Palestine -- Muslim 99%
        Syria -- Muslim 90%
        Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
        Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
        United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

        100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:

        Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
        Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
        Somalia -- Muslim 100%
        Yemen -- Muslim 100%

        Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

        Most extremist organizations carries a risk of violence. But what also matters is how likely they are to carry out such acts and at what level, ie a brawl or a Nice lorry driving. Another factor is coordination and to whom they are loyal. So while some groups are what they are, others are intent on overthrowing government and genocide.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by opinionated_science on Thursday April 20, @03:12PM

    by opinionated_science (4031) on Thursday April 20, @03:12PM (#496880)

    "Rational secular though on the uprise on restrictions on barmy religious practices increased".

    The only way to survive in *this* universe is to study the evidence.

    Believe what you want, but stop on red, ok?

  • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday April 20, @03:40PM

    by Gaaark (41) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @03:40PM (#496896) Homepage Journal

    This is not the religion you are looking... to restrict...

    --
    --- I wish i had a cig for every sig i've ever had: i'd have cancer and wouldn't you feel bad for looking here. ---
  • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday April 20, @04:12PM (10 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @04:12PM (#496909) Journal

    There is a lot wrong in the United States, but I am glad that I could take my family to celebrate Easter at our church and not worry about being killed for it. I'm glad that a mosque and a synagogue can exist peacefully a couple short blocks away from each other in my neighborhood. As the article points out, things are so much different elsewhere.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @05:16PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @05:16PM (#496942)

      Celebrating a milestone in the year? Celebrating an end to your little giving-up-chocolate shtick?

      Certainly, you don't mean "Paying reverence to an ancient fairy tale that was itself based on even-more-ancient fairy tales"?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @08:04PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @08:04PM (#497032)

        I'll pray for you

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @04:10AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @04:10AM (#497225)

        Actually it is a celebration of spring, the return of life to the earth. Babies are born, plants bloom, etc. etc.

        The bunny business supposedly came about through the conversion of pagans. So, actually not quite the fairy tale you think.

        On to a more salient point, do you know what is worse than evangelical religious people? The arrogant atheists who have to shit on everything they look down on. I am non-religious and also do not like crazy religious crap, but that doesn't give me or you a right to crap on someone just cause they're there. Phoenix666 was just happy that he could celebrate a religious event without fear of violent retribution, but maybe he was too quick on that judgment?

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @05:30PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @05:30PM (#496947)

      Please don't be foolish. US Muslims are only being good because we are well armed and they are not in enough numbers to further radicalize themselves (the internal community pressure to become more "pure" will eventually outweigh the pressure from US society to become more secular) yet and start their goat humping jihad. They are already starting to get out of control in towns where their numbers have been allowed to fester like the infection they are. Yes, the jews and muslims are working together in the US, but why and against who? Oh, that's right. Whitey must be defeated/eradicated(depending on who you talk to)! Technically, it's just more Caucasoid infighting.

      • (Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Thursday April 20, @08:48PM (5 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 20, @08:48PM (#497052) Journal

        the internal community pressure to become more "pure" will eventually outweigh the pressure from US society to become more secular

        Unless, of course, that doesn't happen. Islamic cooties aren't any more durable than any other religion's cooties when it comes to exposure to the modern world.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @09:18PM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 20, @09:18PM (#497064)

          So you and jmorris are sliding back over the side of reason. What gives?

          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday April 20, @11:56PM (2 children)

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday April 20, @11:56PM (#497127)

            It's a lapse into temporary sanity. I've seen them do it before. Trust me, they're still crazier than a shithouse rat each on mescaline.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @04:34AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @04:34AM (#497232)

              Oh yes, but I like to encourage the brief bursts of sanity, let them know there could be a semblance of acceptance and appreciation for the things they can contribute.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @03:44PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 21, @03:44PM (#497457)

              Highly likely, posts made half an hour after taking their medication.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 21, @07:04AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 21, @07:04AM (#497282) Journal

            So you and jmorris are sliding back over the side of reason. What gives?

            Can't speak for jmorris, but it's probably just perception.

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