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posted by n1 on Wednesday May 17 2017, @10:31PM   Printer-friendly
from the home-sweet-home dept.

Chelsea Manning has been freed from the Fort Leavenworth military prison, according to a US Army spokesperson:

In January she tweeted that she wanted to move to Maryland after being released, a state where she previously lived. On Monday she tweeted: "Two more days until the freedom of civilian life ^_^ Now hunting for private #healthcare like millions of Americans =P".

Manning will remain on active army duty while her military court conviction remains under appeal. She will have healthcare benefits but will be unpaid, the army says. An online campaign set up by her attorney has raised $150,000 (£115,725) to pay for her living expenses for the first year after her release. If the appeal is denied, she could be dishonourably discharged from the army, US media say.

The mentioned Chelsea Manning Welcome Home Fund. Also at NPR, NYT, and CNN.


Original Submission

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Puerto Rican Nationalist Oscar López Rivera Is Freed 4 comments

The Chicago Tribune reports that Oscar López Rivera has been freed and has returned to Chicago:

Lopez was considered a top leader of the Armed Forces of National Liberation, or FALN, an ultranationalist Puerto Rican group that claimed responsibility for more than 100 bombings at government buildings, department stores, banks and restaurants in New York, Chicago, Washington and Puerto Rico during the 1970s and early '80s.

[...] former President Barack Obama commuted his sentence in January. Since then he has been on house arrest in Puerto Rico.

The National Review reports that he is to lead the Puerto Rican Day parade in June in New York City, and that

He’ll be granted the title of “National Freedom Hero,” a designation never before bestowed on anyone.

additional coverage:

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Puerto Rico: 1 Substation Fire; All 3.5 Million People Lose Power


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 17 2017, @10:35PM (59 children)

    by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 17 2017, @10:35PM (#511429)

    It's a good day when a person who revealed war crimes which defeated Obama's attempt to extend the Iraq war, is freed from persecution.

    http://www.salon.com/2011/10/23/wikileaks_cables_and_the_iraq_war/ [salon.com]

    That cable was released by WikiLeaks in May, 2011, and, as McClatchy put it at the time, “provides evidence that U.S. troops executed at least 10 Iraqi civilians, including a woman in her 70s and a 5-month-old infant, then called in an airstrike to destroy the evidence, during a controversial 2006 incident in the central Iraqi town of Ishaqi.” The U.S. then lied and claimed the civilians were killed by the airstrike. ...

    In other words, whoever leaked that cable cast light on a heinous American war crime and, by doing so, likely played some significant role in thwarting an agreement between the Obama and Maliki governments to keep U.S. troops in Iraq and thus helped end this stage of the Iraq war (h/t Trevor Timm).

    If the Nobel peace prize wasn't locked up by war criminals, Chelsea should be top of the list.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 17 2017, @10:57PM (21 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 17 2017, @10:57PM (#511437)

      It's okay, don't worry. Obama has a (D) next to his name, so the media isn't the least bit interested in the military committing atrocities while he was in charge.

      • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday May 17 2017, @11:04PM (7 children)

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 17 2017, @11:04PM (#511443) Homepage Journal

        He only freed Chelsea because she's a tranny.

        If Chelsea stayed Bradley he'd still be rotting in Leavenworth. So the moral of the story is, if you get caught leaking classified information with a Democratic president in charge, become a tranny immediately and wait for your pardon.

        That was a battle that both Chelsea Manning and Baraq Hussein Soetoro chose to fight wisely, because the Democratic party's image would have suffered a significant hit in the voting booths come next election.

        • (Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Wednesday May 17 2017, @11:48PM (6 children)

          by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Wednesday May 17 2017, @11:48PM (#511456) Journal

          Wait, what? Er… hold on. So, ok, everybody knows that Baraq Hussein Soetoro is the last president's True Name [wikipedia.org], and knowing somebody's True Name gives you power over him.

          So are you saying that Chelsea Manning is the True Name of the person in TFS???

          Can we get a confirmation from Runaway?

          --
          Merry fucking Christmas!
          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:11AM (5 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:11AM (#511476) Journal

            WTF? You want the "true name" of a subhuman?

            --
            This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
            • (Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:43AM

              by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:43AM (#511490) Journal

              Lol!

              --
              Merry fucking Christmas!
            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:55AM (3 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:55AM (#511513)

              Oh that's fucking rich coming from you. Manning may be messed up in the head but she's about a million times better of a person than you are.

              • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @07:51AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @07:51AM (#511588)

                I swear, ever since I stuck up for Runaway as not a total conservative Trump voting douche he has done his damned best to prove me wrong. Reminds me of training a dog, can't show too much affection or it goes to their head and discipline goes out the window. They start shitting on the rug thinking they have a free pass on everything!

              • (Score: 2, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:56PM (1 child)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:56PM (#511679) Journal

                Your biggest problem in regards to Manning, is that you actually believe he "leaked" stuff for altruistic reasons.

                --
                This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:30PM

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:30PM (#511777)

                  So? You don't get to bitch about "petty" now with who we have in the Oval Office.

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by butthurt on Wednesday May 17 2017, @11:08PM (12 children)

        by butthurt (6141) on Wednesday May 17 2017, @11:08PM (#511444) Journal

        He wasn't in charge in 2006, nor were the news media universally uncritical of him. E.g.,

        https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/obama-administration-drone-strikes-war-crimes [theguardian.com]
        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-kovalik/obama-adminstration-guilt_b_8916380.html [huffingtonpost.com]

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 17 2017, @11:58PM (11 children)

          by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 17 2017, @11:58PM (#511461)

          You might be astounded to learn this, but things people do have an effect into the future if they are important.

          what Manning did was force a withdraw on Bush's deadline because Obama could not get the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) extended. SOFA forbade Iraqi courts from trying US military personnel for crimes committed in Iraq. Perhaps you can comprehend that the Iraqi government was sort of irked by the US Military having immunity to commit war crimes, and so decided not to extend SOFA.

          Anyway, after failing to extend the war, Obama declared peace and has been a Democrat darling. Honest question, would he still be a Democrat darling had he managed to extend the war like he wanted to?

          • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:36AM (9 children)

            by butthurt (6141) on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:36AM (#511486) Journal

            You might be astounded to learn this, but things people do have an effect into the future if they are important.

            Thank you for sharing your observation. Does it have some relation to what I wrote?

            What I meant was that Mr. Obama wasn't president in 2006. You had posted about a "2006 incident in the central Iraqi town of Ishaqi" and I was alluding to that.

            Perhaps you can comprehend that the Iraqi government was sort of irked by the US Military having immunity to commit war crimes, and so decided not to extend SOFA.

            I don't have a deep understanding of Iraqi politics. After a little reading I gather that the agreement was made during the George W. Bush administration, gave general immunity from Iraqi law for U.S. soldiers stationed in the country, and was disliked because the presence of thousands of foreign soldiers was seen as an infringement on the country's sovereignty.

            Two major agreements-a Status of Forces Agreement stalled on the issue of legal immunity for U.S. troops and dates for a full withdrawal, and a broader strategic framework agreement-were approved by Iraq’s parliament in late November 2008.

            -- https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-security-agreements-and-iraq [cfr.org]

            At the end of the Bush administration, when the Status of Forces Agreement, or SOFA, was negotiated, setting 2011 as the end of the United States’ military role, officials had said the deadline was set for political reasons, to put a symbolic end to the occupation and establish Iraq’s sovereignty.

            -- http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/22/world/middleeast/united-states-and-iraq-had-not-expected-troops-would-have-to-leave.html?_r=0 [nytimes.com]

            Are you simply saying that the war as a whole is criminal because it was a war of aggression? If not, what leads you to say that immunity from war crimes was the main factor in non-renewal of the agreement?

            > Anyway, after failing to extend the war, Obama declared peace [...]

            Citation, please, for "Obama declared peace"?

            > [...] and has been a Democrat darling.

            As I understand it, he ran for the Senate and for president as a Democrat. By "Democrat darling" are you saying that fellow politicians in his party have been uncritical of him? That's not unexpected: I've noticed that politicians belonging to his predecessor's party have, largely, been uncritical of Mr. Bush. Or are you saying that the press is controlled by Democrats?

            > Honest question, would he still be a Democrat darling had he managed to extend the war like he wanted to?

            His party's platform in 2008 said:

            Ending the war in Iraq will be the beginning, but not the end, of addressing our defense challenges. We will use this moment both to rebuild our military and to prepare it for the missions of the future. We must retain the capacity to swiftly defeat any conventional threat to our country and our vital interests. But we must also become better prepared to take on foes that fight asymmetrical and highly adaptive campaigns on a global scale.

            We will not hesitate to use force to protect the American people or our vital interests whenever we are attacked or imminently threatened.

            -- http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=78283 [ucsb.edu]

            Not exactly a commitment to non-violence, was it?

            • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:20AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:20AM (#511503)

              > Thank you for sharing your observation. Does it have some relation to what I wrote?

              Seems like hemo's hate-on for hillary is now bending towards obama too.

              • (Score: 4, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:16AM

                by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:16AM (#511557)

                Obama:

                • Expanded GWB's reprehensible policy of due process free detention based on secret legal memos, to include execution.
                • Tripled the number of troops in Afghanistan to more than 3x GWB's max.
                • Persecuted more whistleblowers under the Espionage Act than all other presidents combined -- about 4x
                • Expanded the number of wars we are in to include 7 or 8 countries in total.
                • Libyan war destroyed the War Powers Act, the great liberal achievement to come out of the Vietnam War and designed to prevent others. Remember that now that Trump is office and remember who to blame if he starts a war w/o consulting Congress.
                • Excused torturers making it much more likely for the policy to be expanded under Trump.
                • Dropped over 26,000 bombs in 2016 alone.
                • Mass surveillance
                • Prosecuted zero Wall St. fraud. The S&L crisis was something like 1/40th the size of the recent meltdown and about 1000 banksters did Federal prison time. Remember that next time they act with impunity and we have to pay the bill.

                Yeah -- Obama is super awesome. If you are Republican.

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by shortscreen on Thursday May 18 2017, @05:51AM (1 child)

              by shortscreen (2252) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @05:51AM (#511553) Journal

              What I meant was that Mr. Obama wasn't president in 2006. You had posted about a "2006 incident in the central Iraqi town of Ishaqi" and I was alluding to that.

              The post wasn't about Obama's relationship to the 2006 incident/crime. It was about the effects of the leaked info which came out in 2011 (when Obama was president). Before that, essentially no one knew about the incident.

              • (Score: 3, Informative) by butthurt on Thursday May 18 2017, @08:27AM

                by butthurt (6141) on Thursday May 18 2017, @08:27AM (#511594) Journal

                The post wasn't about Obama's relationship to the 2006 incident/crime. It was about the effects of the leaked info which came out in 2011 (when Obama was president). Before that, essentially no one knew about the incident.

                I didn't reply to that post. I replied to an AC who had written:

                Obama has a (D) next to his name, so the media isn't the least bit interested in the military committing atrocities while he was in charge.

            • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:10AM

              by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:10AM (#511556)

              The war was a travesty based on lies. However, one of the war crimes committed was quoted in my original post, it involved:

              • Executing a 70yo woman
              • A 5yo kid
              • A bunch more of intermediate age
              • Calling in an airstrike to cover up the executions
              • Lying that those people died in the airstrike.

              The publicity surrounding that event was important and w/o Chelsea Manning's help, more such atrocities would have been enabled under an Obama extension of hostilities. Considering that nobody involved in that incident was publicly punished, and Iraq was prohibited from doing anything about because of SOFA, it should be glaringly obvious the importance of publicizing the event.

            • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:19AM (3 children)

              by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:19AM (#511558)

              One should also add, quoting Obama's 2008 platform is like quoting Sleeping Beauty. It might be interesting fantasy, but it bears little relationship with reality.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @07:16PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @07:16PM (#511792)

                Does that mean that Trump's 2016 platform is something like Snow White with the evil queen played by Hillary?

                • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday May 18 2017, @11:23PM

                  by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday May 18 2017, @11:23PM (#511890)

                  Yes. Except in reality, HRC is an evil queen. However, when it comes to what Trump promised, it will be as useful a reference tool as Obama's '08 platform.

              • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Friday May 19 2017, @06:16PM

                by butthurt (6141) on Friday May 19 2017, @06:16PM (#512287) Journal

                You seem to be faulting me for quoting it. It seemed the most obvious standard by which the Democrats could be expected to judge his actions, and decide whether he ought to be their "darling." Or by "Democrat darling" did you mean the same thing as the AC: that the news media are uncritical of Democratic Party politicians?

          • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Friday May 19 2017, @06:53PM

            by butthurt (6141) on Friday May 19 2017, @06:53PM (#512300) Journal

            > [...] Obama declared peace [...]

            I asked where you learned this, but there was no answer. I found a transcript of his speech from 31 August 2010:

            Of course, violence will not end with our combat mission. Extremists will continue to set off bombs, attack Iraqi civilians and try to spark sectarian strife.

            --
            https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2010/08/31/remarks-president-address-nation-end-combat-operations-iraq [archives.gov]

            The moment of candour wasn't universally ignored by the news media. For example, one article was titled "President Obama Marks End of Combat in Iraq, Cites Challenges Ahead" and said:

            Today the official name of the military mission in Iraq changes to "Operation New Dawn," but the president cautioned that does not mean the violence in Iraq is over, nor is the U.S. commitment to help fight it.

            "Extremists will continue to set off bombs, attack Iraqi civilians and try to spark sectarian strife," Obama said.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Wednesday May 17 2017, @10:57PM (25 children)

      by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday May 17 2017, @10:57PM (#511439)

      Nobel could happen, given that "not being Trump" might have the same effect as "not being W" (4 Nobel prizes total).

      What I cynically want to know is whether she will remain Chelsea after being released from jail. Last indications seem to be yes, but I can't stop wondering whether the transgender identity wasn't a sympathy/protection move.

      • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Wednesday May 17 2017, @11:11PM

        by butthurt (6141) on Wednesday May 17 2017, @11:11PM (#511446) Journal

        > [...] I can't stop wondering whether the transgender identity wasn't a sympathy/protection move.

        The photo at the top of the BBC article was taken before Manning was imprisoned.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 17 2017, @11:36PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 17 2017, @11:36PM (#511449)

        > I can't stop wondering whether the transgender identity wasn't a sympathy/protection move.

        You have watched too many episodes of MASH.

      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:00AM (22 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:00AM (#511498) Journal

        Manning was described as "gender confused" long before the incidents for which he was charged and convicted. None of that was put on for defense. Given that the creature was put into prison for forever minus a couple days or so, any pretense probably would have been dropped sometime after arriving in prison. Whatever it is, it's genuine. It passes the smell test, you may choose to do a taste test if you like.

        --
        This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
        • (Score: 1, Troll) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:11AM (20 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:11AM (#511516)

          Stop referring to another human being as "it." You're protesting much too hard here and it's making me think you're running from something.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:42AM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:42AM (#511562)

            "It" may be used when referring to entities of indeterminate gender, we use the word when speaking of babies, toddlers and animals all the time.

            You're protesting much too hard here and it's making me think you're running from something.

            Do not presume bad faith, it's an incredibly toxic attitude to hold.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @11:46AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @11:46AM (#511638)

              > "It" may be used when referring to entities of indeterminate gender, we use the word when speaking of babies, toddlers and animals all the time.

              Nobody human refers to babies or toddlers as its.

              > Do not presume bad faith, it's an incredibly toxic attitude to hold.

              There is no presumption. It takes every chance it can get to denigrate LGBT people.

              • (Score: 2, Funny) by kurenai.tsubasa on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:06PM

                by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:06PM (#511683) Journal

                Well, the way I take GP is that the pronoun “it” should be used until the Crocodile Dundee maneuver has been performed. While the Crocodile Dundee maneuver isn't foolproof, it should help to determine a pronoun to be used with trans men and even folks with advanced infiltrator class woman suits like me. If not for that maneuver, somebody might be tricked by my woman suit or by a trans man's facial hair and incorrectly gender them according to their appearance (as opposed to their True Gender… something like a True Name I'm sure).

                The only downside to GP's proposal is that performing the Crocodile Dundee maneuver on a cisgendered woman who doesn't pass as well as I do (there are some very unlucky women out there) may invite lawsuits if not a slap across the face. Performing this maneuver on a trans man may result in a punch to the nose. So it's risky, but I understand that GP may well be more afraid of misgendering a cisgendered person accidentally.

                When people used to have manners, misgendering somebody was a faux pas for sure, but other than the momentary embarrassment on the part of the speaker, we were able to quickly resolve it and move on. However, these days it's straight to condition red and beat the shit out of the person you were confused about, then double down if they turn out to be cisgendered.

                (This is where I go completely off the rails. I am saying something here, but I am content with leaving the reader to dig for it.)

                Unfortunately, most women are not T-900 advanced infiltrators from the post-apocalyptic future, and an Apache Attack Copter may severely damage them with 30 mm chain gun fire or even kill them if they launch off an AGM-114 Hellfire anti-tank missile. Of course, given that T-900s have a coltan hyperalloy endoskeleton underneath the woman suit, they can typically take a few AGM-114 hits and remain 83% combat effective (but the woman suit never survives this! it has to be entirely regrown same as the T-888! q.q 'tis sad, but protip for any other T-900s out there! if this happens, it really helps if you put the lotion on its skin once every 6–8 hours! seriously! your new infiltrator sheath will be so soft and silky!), though given the greater agility afforded to the T-900 chassis over the T-800, especially the bulky model 101 infiltrator, it's doubtful a direct hit would occur. When armed with a phased plasma rifle in a 40 watt range, a T-900's tactical subsystem is able to perform the split second precision aiming necessary to shoot down an inbound AGM-114 missile.

                So this is why it's important not to assume somebody's gender until performing the Crocodile Dundee maneuver!

                Or at least I assume that's what GP was getting at….

                --
                Merry fucking Christmas!
            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:32PM

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:32PM (#511779)

              And Chelsea is not now, nor when she was Bradley, of "indeterminate gender." Was very clearly male, now very clearly female. I "assume bad faith" because he--and you, with this post--are showing it constantly. Piss off.

          • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:51PM (15 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:51PM (#511677) Journal

            I will speak the English language as I damned well please. It almost sounds like you are projecting. If you protest something, that means you are running from something? I'll try to remember that. So, in view of the fact that I consider Manning to be subhuman, what are YOU running away from, with your protests?

            --
            This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:39PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:39PM (#511695)

              > I will speak the English language as I damned well please.

              And we will judge you based on what you say.

              Don't like being judged? Easy solution. Shut the fuck up buttercup.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:19PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:19PM (#511705)

                Lick the buttercup, LMAO!!

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:35PM (12 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:35PM (#511780)

              You consider her subhuman...why exactly? Unless you do a DNA test and find, say, telomeric sequence characteristic of the common or garden tomato, you're already way the hell off base.

              Fuck you sideways, Runaway. We all know what this is about: trans and queer people give you the icks, and you have to put them down any way you can in order to shield your precious, delicate ego. God, men are so fucking fragile.

              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday May 19 2017, @01:17AM (11 children)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 19 2017, @01:17AM (#511926) Journal

                Manning betrayed his mates. That is the bottom line. The queer shit may give me the icks, but I have never called you or anyone else here subhuman, have I? No, I have not. You are infatuated with Manning because A. he is queer, and B. he has been painted as altruistic. Betrayal. Look that up in the dictionary. Think about it. Imagine your mother betraying you. Imagine your father betraying you. Imagine your brothers and sisters betraying you. Your special other, with whom you share a home, a life, everything.

                Manning betrayed his brothers and sisters. The spiteful little bitch stabbed his brothers and sisters in the back. It is subhuman.

                --
                This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 19 2017, @02:28AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 19 2017, @02:28AM (#511951)

                  I think I understand how you feel now.

                  Family betrayed me many moons ago, and they'll tell you that I was the one who betrayed them instead.

                  That's interesting. I hadn't expected such an interplay between sociology and psychology.

                  Thank you for explaining.

                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday May 19 2017, @03:05AM (9 children)

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday May 19 2017, @03:05AM (#511982)

                  And what he revealed ended up possibly stopping a shitload worse. I've got mixed emotions about what he did and why, and the motives sure as hell weren't pure, but then...what about the last 70+ years of US intervention in international affairs has been? There's no good guys here, and I suspect he, now she, never really expected most of this.

                  Mind explaining your condensation of LGBT as "lickbutt" though? That doesn't sound neutral or "I don't really care"-ish to me. You tip your hand much too easily.

                  • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Friday May 19 2017, @01:43PM (8 children)

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 19 2017, @01:43PM (#512162) Journal

                    Lickbutt? It's funny as hell. I can't take credit for it, I heard it on the radio. But, every fucking drag queen and drama queen in the country needs us to know they are queer. Fuck, no one wants to know. Go home, and lick that butt in private!!

                    Oh yeah - pedophilia. It WAS acceptable among the lickbutts, until the FBI busted half the people in NAMBLA. But, it's coming back.

                    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/01/dsm-pedophilia-mental-disorder-paraphilia_n_4184878.html [huffingtonpost.com]

                    The slippery slope starts out as a nice, easy incline. But, soon, it's going to be "Anything goes!"

                    --
                    This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
                    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday May 20 2017, @02:39AM (7 children)

                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday May 20 2017, @02:39AM (#512495)

                      Christ, you actually made a slippery slope argument?! I thought you were better than that. And I can't help but notice you're calling out a group of gay men (lesbian invisibility strikes again, whoohoo!) and tarring every single queer person of every stripe with their criminality. As I understand it, NAMBLA occupies about the same headspace within the queer community as Westboro does among mainline Protestants.

                      *This* lesbian is active in anti-trafficking work, with a specific emphasis on keeping children OUT of the reach of bastards like them. My closest friend, and the recipient of easily 30%+ of my after-tax income, meager as that is, was trafficked from ages 12-16 during the Reagan years. So was her sister, and she is long dead. You owe me an apology you can't tilt your head back far enough to see the size of for that little piece of guilt-by-association.

                      tl;dr: fuck your fallacies and go to Hell.

                      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday May 20 2017, @02:52AM (6 children)

                        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 20 2017, @02:52AM (#512502) Journal

                        Salutes for your position on human traficking.

                        OK, so pedos are a small part of the queer community. Westboro is a small part of the Christian community. How does that change the fact that pedophilia is following the same track that made homosexuality "acceptable"?

                        You don't like slippery slopes? Hey, I got an idea. Let's just stay the fuck OFF OF THEM!! The fact is, LGBT had no problem with pedos, until the FBI cracked down on NAMBLA. The chiefs of each were photographed on stages, hugging, and doing queer stuff together. "Oh, we're all just misunderstood, let's work together to make normal people understand us!"

                        But, wait. Headspace? Are you kin to Max Headroom?

                        --
                        This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
                        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday May 20 2017, @03:02AM (5 children)

                          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday May 20 2017, @03:02AM (#512505)

                          Look, I was born in 1985 so I missed out on the entire "queer liberation" phase, especially since it took till age 16 to admit what I was. This paedo stuff seems almost exclusive to queer men, from what little I've seen, so how about you at least be honest with yourself and admit it's gay dudes that squick you for whatever reason?

                          Because something tells me you wouldn't have a problem watching me and my girlfriend go at it but you'd (pretend to...?) be grossed out at Adam and Steve. And this is your justification for that. "Eww some of those people are paedos, therefore everyone who's not straight and cisgender is gross as hell!"

                          Frankly, Runaway, I've suspected you're bisexual or at least questioning ever since I saw your first homophobic-sounding post. You're showing all the classic signs of defensive overreaction. Especially the one where, when someone (me!) points this out to you, you go "no, YOU'RE the one who's projecting!!!!111eleventyone." My experience has been that most straights who are truly secure in their sexuality *do not care.*

                          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday May 20 2017, @01:29PM (4 children)

                            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 20 2017, @01:29PM (#512604) Journal

                            "Frankly, Runaway, I've suspected you're bisexual . . ."

                            And, you're different from the jocks in the locker room - how, exactly? You can't win a point, so you attack a guy's sexuality. But, wait - you're trying to shame me, with the sexuality that you accuse/project/assign me? But, being gay is something to be PROUD OF!!

                            Whatever it is that you think, or don't think, of me, it's not my job to fit into your warped version of reality. Especially when you can't seem to make up your mind which reality you're in.

                            --
                            This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
                            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday May 21 2017, @05:00AM (3 children)

                              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday May 21 2017, @05:00AM (#512887)

                              *I* don't think being any kind of queer is something to be ashamed of--*you* do. That's the entire point.

                              You took a long time to reply to that last one, and then replied with a hysterical, half-incoherent pile of non-sequiturs. Good grief, you're not fooling anyone but yourself. If you actually are bi or questioning, or even gay but closeted, *let it go.* You'll feel a lot better--this is sixteen year old me speaking here!--and things will start falling into place. And you can stop hating yourself.

                              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 21 2017, @06:19AM (2 children)

                                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 21 2017, @06:19AM (#512909) Journal

                                You're getting boring, 'Zumi. For me, it's girls. I've liked girls for about 50 years now, and no male has ever looked appealing. End of story. Wherever you think you want to go with this, it's a dead end.

                                But, you've failed repeatedly to explain your interest in MY sex life. All this locker room talk, questioning the size of my penis, questioning my interests, etc ad nauseum. Explain all of that, alright?

                                --
                                This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
                                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday May 22 2017, @05:34AM (1 child)

                                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday May 22 2017, @05:34AM (#513328)

                                  Very easy to explain: these things bother the hell out of you, you've got unresolved daddy issues, and I like seeing what you *don't* say and how you *do* say the things you say, as they are much more revealing than you think.

                                  Your choice of words, what you choose to reply to, what you choose not to, how you reply to what you reply to, all of it paints a much more detailed picture than you realize. You're one of the more predictable and, frankly, easily-trollable posters on here, and you're such an asshole it becomes an irresistible temptation to set you off :) You're also amazingly tightly-wound, and this is coming from someone who needs massive doses of magnesium and B-complex just to get through the workday.

                                  Have you noticed something in the last few months? People like you, J-Mo, Uzzard, and the like are taking a lot more flak and getting a lot less leeway for the bullshit you post on here. I won't claim credit for that of course, but it seems like the site's collective conscious, if not collective conscience, is waking up, and it's tired of your fallacious horseshit.

                                  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday May 22 2017, @09:08AM

                                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 22 2017, @09:08AM (#513399) Journal

                                    Oh, my bad. You're the resident psyche-chiatrist, or something like that. You mostly read minds, and when you can't do that, you analyze everything until it fits into your own world view. After all, it would be unethical or something like that just to take a sentence at face value.

                                    Get a life, girl. It's not all about you, it's not all drama, and you don't have the answers to Life, the Universe, and Everything.

                                    Since I'm feeling generous right now, I'll GIVE you the answer. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/42-the-answer-to-life-the-universe-and-everything-2205734.html [independent.co.uk]

                                    --
                                    This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
        • (Score: 1) by lcklspckl on Thursday May 18 2017, @10:29PM

          by lcklspckl (830) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @10:29PM (#511867)

          Yep, I modded this insightful. You see, this creature (Runaway) is pretty much right. It (the issue with Manning) is genuine and does pass the smell test. Here Runaway seems to be acknowledging that and I didn't sense the use of disrespectful pronouns. Now, I default to calling most folks whatever they want to be called out of simple respect--usually. Doing otherwise is a kind of gaslighting. I'm not defending anything Runaway has said over time, but this time, I detect no aggression nor intentional disrespect. The creature is something a grandmother says in order to express pity--we're all creatures, and humans should be pitied. It's the most we deserve. Hashtag SadHumans!

    • (Score: 2) by epitaxial on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:49AM

      by epitaxial (3165) on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:49AM (#511495)

      Don't forget about the Nobel prize for all of that too!

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:04AM (8 children)

      by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:04AM (#511515) Journal

      I'm glad Manning is out, too. His leaks sparked the Arab Spring, which is a long overdue liberation from dictators from North Africa to the Middle East. Yes, it's uneven, with some parts having failed and others still unfolding. But he played a key role in liberating millions of people from decades of oppression. I've never done anything near that significant in my life, and if I had done I would consider my life fulfilled. The list of American heroes in this century is very short so far, and he would be on it.

      If there is any justice history will look on him kindly, and condemn his accusers and persecuters. Given that Obama was the latter in both Manning's and Snowden's cases, there's a decent chance of it. Makes me wish they could revoke his Nobel Peace Prize.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday May 18 2017, @07:50AM

        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Thursday May 18 2017, @07:50AM (#511587) Homepage
        Let's give the farce its full name - the Henry Kissinger Memorial Nobel Peace Prize.
        --
        I was worried about my command. I was the scientist of the Holy Ghost.
      • (Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:12PM (6 children)

        by linkdude64 (5482) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:12PM (#511701)

        "His leaks sparked the Arab Spring, which is a long overdue liberation from dictators"

        And replaced them with ISIS? Please tell me you don't actually believe the "Arab Spring" was anything other than a failed coup attempt orchestrated by the United States and Saudi Arabia, thanks to Hillary Clinton. It was a total disaster, much worse than Afghanistan, which did not only deeply impact the US economy, but the fallout of which has almost destroyed the European Union project - the premerie experiment in sustained peace among advanced civilizations. Has Wikileaks taught you nothing? The "Arab Spring" was savages overcoming their lesser-savage masters, just as with Saddam - were it smiles and rainbows you would not have the millions upon millions of "refugees" completely abandoning their native women and children in the noble pursuit of free shit and defenseless white women. I am surprised to see you write something so utterly off the mark. Is Black Lives Matter also a "Spring" of advanced socio-political philosophy in your eyes?

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:59PM (5 children)

          by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:59PM (#511719) Journal

          It liberated Algeria and Tunisia. Egypt is mostly there. It did depose Qaddafi, who had been there longer than anyone could remember, though the aftermath hasn't been what it has in the other three. Can you agree on that much?

          In the Middle East proper it has not worked so well. But, then, things were already a different kettle of fish thanks to the US invasion of Iraq and staunch support of the Saudi royal family at the highest levels of American government. That, in turn, gave the Saudis cover to intervene directly against the populist uprising in Bahrain.

          I did say the results as yet were uneven.

          Is it all to blame for Europe's troubles? I don't think so. Europe already had a problem with assimilating immigrants. Germany had real challenges with its Turkish gastarbeiter when I lived there 30 years ago, and France immigrants from its former colonies. The Syrian refugees, which I surmise you're really thinking about, are a more complicated matter. The EU had already made a mistake when it jerked Turkey around on its bid for membership, because they were muslims and just too culturally different; it weakened moderates in Turkey, who had staked a lot on successful admission. Erdogan took over. And as soon as the Syrian refugees showed up they sent them along to Greece, which the Turks hate anyway, and the Balkans. Is it hard to imagine they're doing it intentionally to mess with Europe?

          But let's set aside the Turkish dimension and look at the numbers we're talking about. According to the Wikipedia page on it [wikipedia.org], all the refugees taken in by all the European countries on the list sum to 1,077,768. Google reports the population of the European Union is 508,000,000. So, all the Syrian refugees taken together, do not constitute your "millions upon millions," but rather 1 million and change, and against the native population of Europeans amount to about a 0.2% change in population. That's a rounding error. If the EU was so weak that a rounding error in population change would cause it to crumble, then it was not very strong to begin with and a butterfly flapping its wings in a gale in Gibraltar might also have brought everything crashing down.

          You characterized the Arabs as "savages overcoming their lesser-savage masters." Your words. It seems there's no way they could win with you anyway. They could have come in and cured cancer in Italy or made the nanotech field take a quantum leap forward in Switzerland or some other amazing feat and probably still not won a kind word from you. The material contributions Arabs have already made to your quality of life, such as algebra and other advances in math and science, do not seem to count for much, after all. Their beautiful art, music, poetry, and literature have likewise made no impression.

          I'm no apologist and no booster of Arabs or Muslims per se, but give credit where credit is due. And since Arabs and muslims have done great things in the past, Manning's leaks may have given them a fresh chance to do great things again, and that's laudable.

          Bravo, Manning. May we all be so brave as you.

          --
          Washington DC delenda est.
          • (Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:15PM (4 children)

            by linkdude64 (5482) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:15PM (#511771)

            "Can you agree on that much?" Absolutely not.

            Algeria's Presidential "Election" following the spring was rife with fraud, as was the election in Libya, again, Wikileaks. Shit, even MSM.

            http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2014/04/algeria-ailing-president-wins-fourth-term-2014418154859606338.html [aljazeera.com]
            https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/30/opinion/the-algerian-exception.html?_r=0 [nytimes.com]

            Tunisia:
            "After winning 41% of the seats in the Constituent Assembly, representatives of al-Nahda proposed a constitutional provision declaring Islam to be “the main source of legislation”[8] with the goal of unifying all Tunisian legislation under the rule of Islamic law."
            "and abolish Law 27 of 1958, which allows for the adoption of a child,[12] since al-Nahda leaders consider adoption of a child to be forbidden under Islamic law."
            "Religion is also mentioned in article 136, which provides that no constitutional amendment shall harm Islam as the religion of the State.[17]"
            https://www.loc.gov/law/help/tunisia.php [loc.gov]

            Europe had problems before, but nothing like it has now. According to Wikipedia, "As of 2010, 1.33 million people or 14.3% of the inhabitants in Sweden were foreign-born." That is from 2010, before the Somalians and Libyans showed up and the crime rate "coincidentally" spiked to make Sweden the rape capital of Europe, with violent crimes being committed that had literally never been seen in the country before: dozen+ size gang rapes, etc. All of your statistics cite "registered" refugees, but the real number is likely higher, and again, includes mostly fighting-age men. Not "Philosophers, poets, mathematicians, and musicians." A large amount are considered illiterate even in their native languages - this source says roughly 20%, which I would consider fair, however it should also emphasize the point that these refugees were the most wealthy and mobile in their countries (they could afford to leave, after all). So you tell me what the definition of savage is, if not uneducated, violent, and supporting oppressively religious forms of governance?

            http://theconversation.com/election-factcheck-are-many-refugees-illiterate-and-innumerate-59584 [theconversation.com]

            "then it was not very strong to begin with"

            Neither is a precious work of art, and that does not excuse its destruction or the people responsible for its destruction. If you hadn't noticed Hungary, Austria, and Poland are all in deep with Brussels and giving no fucks about it, as they rightly shouldn't. Britain is out, and France is more right wing and anti-EU than it has been in decades.

            https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3584665/austria-bans-the-burka-and-demands-all-refugees-take-intensive-language-lessons-in-new-migrant-clampdown/ [thesun.co.uk]
            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/poland-no-refugees-eu-legal-action-infringement-quotas-resettlement-beata-szydlo-commission-a7741236.html [independent.co.uk]
            www.express.co.uk/news/world/806186/hungary-viktor-orban-european-union-nuclear-vote

            Whether or not you think immigration and the rape and death those immigrants bring with them is responsible for refusal of them by those countries is a matter of some conjecture, though the countries and people opposed to EU policies would tell you as much themselves, that they do not want crime and rape in their previously relatively peaceful countries.

            Islamic art, science, etc. would have all maintained its previously grandiose level were it not for the tragically objective fact that the Islamic culture is designed to keep itself in power. This is not just true in the middle east, but in Southeast Asia as well, where Muslims are killing Buddhists at such a rate that even they are against Islam in all of its forms. Christianity was able to reform itself several hundred years ago and co-exist with societal progress. Quite apparently, that is not also the case with Islam. If history is to be the judge of all things, what is history saying to us about how long Islam has had, how many chances it has been given, and what it has done time and time again?

            • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday May 19 2017, @01:07PM (3 children)

              by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 19 2017, @01:07PM (#512148) Journal

              Syria only had 20 million people. Even if all of them were refugees in Europe, that's still only 3.9% of the native population of Europe. That's enough to put an end to the EU? It would be all their fault?

              The Wikipedia article says 5 million registered, with an estimate million more unregistered. About 3.5 million of the registered ones are in Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan, countries whose combined population is much smaller than Europe's. Why aren't you pointing out how those refugees are the end of the world for Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan? Because it hasn't been.

              But, OK, let's play your game and say that 100% of the estimate unregistered Syrian refugees wound up in Europe. That's 2 million Syrian refugees scattered across the EU, 1 million registered, 1 million registered. It comes to a whopping 0.39% of the native European population. In other words, it's still rounding error.

              A rounding error does not bring down a civilization. Blaming that handful of people for the EU's problems is absurd. It's as absurd as saying, "Oh, well, everything was great in Europe before the Gypsies showed up. Then everything went to hell. It's all their fault."

              And your whole thing about Islam vs. Christianity. That's a long conversation, but it's kind of futile to have with you anyway because you are prejudiced. You hate muslims, period, and nothing they have ever done or could ever do will ever pass muster with you.

              --
              Washington DC delenda est.
              • (Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Saturday May 20 2017, @05:14AM

                by linkdude64 (5482) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 20 2017, @05:14AM (#512528)

                "You hate muslims, period, and nothing they have ever done or could ever do will ever pass muster with you."

                I don't really care about the rest of the conversation - fine, immigration is having no impact on the stability of the European block.

                But this statement is just fucking childish. I do not hate Muslims because they are Muslims. I hate Muslims because they worship a violent ideologue, and so, inevitably, create societies which promote violent ideologues. Is it a reasonable statement to say that you can get a feel of someone's content of character based upon whom they idolize and attempt to emulate? Is it also a reasonable statement to say that actions speak louder than words? If we can move forward in agreeance, as a militant agnostic, I will take a very no-bullshit look at the lore of the figureheads of Christianity and Islam.

                Christ's words: Go in Peace. Do unto others. Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. Generally things of that nature.
                Christ's actions: Sacrificed himself to save his people from hell. Never married or had intercourse, apparently. Never attacked anyone but Jews who were being greedy, even then, did not harm them.

                Muhammed's words: Peace, faith, take the infidel's children for your own. Tax them for believing other things, or just kill them outright.
                Muhammed's actions: Personally led a crusade to slay thousands of pagans. Took a child bride who was 6 when he was 53, knocked her up at 9. She also turned out to be a violent ideological warlord who led a crusade of her own (look it up.) Did not sacrifice himself in any way - he was injured in war, and as a result of his violent crusades, he was eventually poisoned by an enemy. Lived by the sword, died by the sword.

                I don't even care about the words really: Christianity worships someone who didn't fuck kids and didn't kill anyone. You can mince words all fucking day, but who would you rather your daughter, or sister, or niece, or whoever marry? A guy who never killed or harmed anybody, or a pedophile who killed hundreds of people? Regardless of how "Nice" or "pretty" their paintings were or how smart they were at math.

              • (Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Saturday May 20 2017, @05:32AM

                by linkdude64 (5482) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 20 2017, @05:32AM (#512532)

                To be clear, I am absolutely prejudiced against Muslims of any race, region, or level of involvement in the culture. I have the same prejudice against Christians, the difference is that I do not hold their culture in contempt. Religion is belief, culture is societal.

                However, what I actually hate is not them per se, what I hate is that they are going to other already developed peaceable cultures and not assimilating. The ideologies that created the respective societies in which they thrived belong there, and only there. If a Mexican, a Syrian, and a German told me that they hated with a fucking passion the cultural influence that the US has on their countries and proceeded to insult it in detail I would say, "Right the fuck on. We do not belong in your country, and you do not belong in ours." I should hope they are as proud of their cultures and countries as I am of mine, for better or worse.

              • (Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Saturday May 20 2017, @10:28AM

                by linkdude64 (5482) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 20 2017, @10:28AM (#512573)

                Took another look at my comment and realized a couple things:

                That the difference between a "Christian" MS-13 member and a Muslim charity worker must be due to something other than religion, and that no person who pledges to a specific religion is a total embodiment of what that religion professes.

                Were that the case, it would be the world which I previously assumed to exist. I am not sure why, but I think typing that comment out made me realize that.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @07:23AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @07:23AM (#511580)

      If the Nobel peace prize wasn't locked up by war criminals, Chelsea should be top of the list.

      She should get the one Obama got. He never got around to deserving it.

  • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by looorg on Wednesday May 17 2017, @10:44PM (16 children)

    by looorg (578) on Wednesday May 17 2017, @10:44PM (#511433)

    Reading the "articles" is like reading fan letters to the We-Love-Manning-newsletter. No hard questions what so ever.

    He is to remain on active army duty as what? I seriously doubt he can return to the former posting as an intelligence analyst. There is no way they are EVER granting Manning any kind of security clearance again, by leaking documents and having several suicide attempts he got security risk just written all over him. Regarding the suicidal tendencies that tends to also be somewhat frowned upon as there is "easy access" to guns in the army, they don't tend to go well together. The Army won't trust Manning to be in charge of the office paperclip collection, much less anything else.

    "If the appeal is denied, she could be dishonorably discharged from the army, US media say."

    IF?! Like there is any kind of doubt about that outcome. OK technically he could get some other kind of discharge. If not dishonorably I would assume it would be a bad conduct one. But he is leaving and it's not going to be an honorable discharge of any kind. One is only left to wonder why Manning would even want to remain in the Army or even returning to the Army. He clearly hated the Army before and I doubt the stay at Fort Leavenworth has changed any of that. This release is just the, short, interlude before the discharge.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 17 2017, @11:00PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 17 2017, @11:00PM (#511441)

      Reduced in rank to E-1, forfeiture of pay, sent home TDY while processing appeal.

      $150K from gofundme supporters for gold lifetime Grindr membership and iPhones in perpetuity.

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by hemocyanin on Thursday May 18 2017, @12:00AM (1 child)

        by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday May 18 2017, @12:00AM (#511462)

        No -- for service to human kind. And I'm proud to have been one of the early donators.

        • (Score: 2) by Kell on Thursday May 18 2017, @05:15AM

          by Kell (292) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @05:15AM (#511548)

          Good for you, blueblood! :)

          --
          Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @12:41AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @12:41AM (#511470)

      A dishonorable discharge from the US military is in many ways functionally equivalent to a felony criminal conviction standing alone by itself.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:09AM (4 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:09AM (#511500) Journal

      From worst, to best, there are dishonorable, bad conduct, general under dishonorable, general under honorable conditions, convenience of the service, and finally, honorable. Each has subtle differences in the benefits available to a veteran. Whatever may be forced upon the military due to political pressure, you can be sure that Manning will not be entitled to a military funeral with honors. The Army isn't going to send an honor guard to his funeral to grieve a fallen member. Even if he requests being buried at sea, the Navy won't carry his body out, and tip it off a sheet of plywood.

      Having served as an honor guard on many occasions, I can assure you that I would disobey any order to honor Manning. Many other servicemen probably feel the same way about this traitor.

      --
      This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
      • (Score: 2) by KiloByte on Thursday May 18 2017, @04:10AM (3 children)

        by KiloByte (375) on Thursday May 18 2017, @04:10AM (#511535)

        Traitor to whom? Barrack Hussein Obama?!?

        He did a great service to the humankind, including his country. Manning should get highest medals, not a dishonourable discharge.

        --
        Ceterum censeo systemd esse delendam.
        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:40PM (2 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:40PM (#511675) Journal

          Julian Assange provides a service to humanity. Assange cannot be faulted for publishing the stuff that Manning sent him.

          Manning swore several oaths, all of which he broke, as a soldier in the US Army. Manning dishonored himself.

          Have you ever heard, 'Semper Fidelis'? Well, obviously, Manning hasn't either.

          --
          This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
          • (Score: 2) by KiloByte on Thursday May 18 2017, @04:51PM (1 child)

            by KiloByte (375) on Thursday May 18 2017, @04:51PM (#511732)

            Can you link to the text of the oaths? I don't know ones used by the US military, but I guess it's the usual stuff about protecting the people of USA and upholding its constitution, rather than helping cover up crimes of his higher ups.

            In fact, it was his duty, that everyone else in the army failed to fulfill.

            --
            Ceterum censeo systemd esse delendam.
            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday May 19 2017, @02:23AM

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 19 2017, @02:23AM (#511945) Journal

              Your request is easy to deal with - http://www.history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html [army.mil]

              And, I would like to help you a little to understand that oath. "All enemies, foreign and domestic" Some of America's worst enemies are located inside of the Washington beltway. Others are scattered around the nation, sitting in offices, at the Federal Reserve, on Wall Street, and in "defense" contractor's plants.

              Manning, however, cannot make any valid claim to have attacked any of those enemies. Manning didn't even have the intel necessary to hurt any of those enemies. Instead, Manning took a dump of all the intel he could get, then painted that intel as "war crimes". The most dramatic of those "war crimes", I have gone over in detail in other discussions. The video in which the Reuters correspondent is killed is no crime at all. It is a tragedy, but it is no crime.

              There were crimes committed in Iraq, but Manning didn't expose Abu Ghraib - other people did that.

              The greatest American crime in Iraq was the invasion itself. Responsibility for that rests squarely on GW Bush and his neoconsrevative buddies, all of whom were safe at home, reaping profit from the bloodshed.

              War crimes. Had Manning actually exposed any war crimes, I might despise him less. But, at the end of the day, it always comes back to one thing. Manning was and is a spiteful little bitch, who was trying to hurt his comrades in arms.

              Edward Snowden's actions bear a lot of resemblance to Manning's actions - but Snowden actually exposed real crimes. Snowden has clear motivations, none of which are petty and spiteful. Edward went into this thing, KNOWING that he would be sacrificing his job, and maybe his life. Snowden accepted those risks, and took action to minimize the risks. Manning - thoughtlessly and carelessly snatched everything he could get, and sent it off to the only correspondent he could reach.

              I could go on, but it's time I headed out to work.

              --
              This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:34AM (4 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:34AM (#511510) Journal

      I neglected to mention what seemed obvious to me, but may be less obvious to others.

      If Manning can manage to get a general under honorable conditions, or better, then he has access to Veteran's Administration health services. What that means to Manning, personally, is a free sex change operation, free hormones, free whatever. And, what that means to the Lickbutt (How do you pronounce LGBT, anyway?) community, is that the government/military has to do gender reassignment for people who request it.

      --
      This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
      • (Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:27AM (3 children)

        by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:27AM (#511521) Journal

        I think people generally just read the letters when they pronounce LGBT, as in el-gee-bee-tee. I hope that helps. There are a lot of trans women who are also army veterans. I think over half of the local trans support group were deployed in Vietnam, though some were in the Gulf.

        I haven't gone since before Manning became a headline, so I don't know how they feel about Manning. Thinking about one older woman in particular I remember from support group who served in Vietnam, I would bet that she also disapproves of Manning's actions.

        --
        Merry fucking Christmas!
        • (Score: 2, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:31AM (2 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:31AM (#511526)

          You're wasting your time on this guy. He's either intensely frightened or hiding his own queerness (or some of both) and it's hilariously transparent, but what he is *not* doing is asking questions in good faith.

          ...personally I think it's because he fantasizes about smoking more sausage than a German butcher shop, possibly while wearing a dress, but I could be wrong :D

          • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:46PM (1 child)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:46PM (#511676) Journal

            'Zumi, you gotta quit fantasizing about me.

            --
            This broadcast is intended for mature audiences.
            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:37PM

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:37PM (#511783)

              I don't even think about you until I come on here and see you took another half a dozen stinking dumps all over the forum. Though now that you mention it, I do wonder what kind of noise you'd make if someone lit you on fire. I guess you'll find out in a few decades, eh? :)

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @04:20AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @04:20AM (#511539)

      to be subject to the military justice system and UCMJ (in the US) you must still be in the military. on active duty no less.

      While Manning's been in custody she's bern knocked down to E-1 rank. not much pay there to dock.

  • (Score: 2) by Snotnose on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:16AM (1 child)

    by Snotnose (1623) on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:16AM (#511478)

    Which can be much worse than civilian discipline.

    / IMHO, s/he did the right thing exposing this video
    // that said, taxpayers should not have paid for his/her sex surgery
    /// I wish her the best of luck
    //// oh wait, I'm commenting on a thread that isn't Fark? oops.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @07:37AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @07:37AM (#511585)

      that said, taxpayers should not have paid for his/her sex surgery

      That could have been easy to avoid. Simply by not claiming responsibility over her health, i.e. locking her up.

      Not providing medical treatment for prisoners is considered cruel and unusual treatment, something that will put you in the league of people like Stalin and Pol Pot.

  • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:47AM (10 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @01:47AM (#511492)

    A woman is not just a man with his balls chopped off. Even adding a dress, long hair, fake tits, and completely extreme make-up isn't going to do the job.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:20AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:20AM (#511502)

      What about real tits?

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:13AM (8 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:13AM (#511517)

      Hey, dipshit, she's going to grow her own on the hormone therapy. I've got enough MtF friends to know the process in some detail. At least educate yourself about what you're heaping scorn on.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @04:36AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @04:36AM (#511543)

        That's nice. It really doesn't matter. It's a traitor.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday May 18 2017, @04:42AM

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday May 18 2017, @04:42AM (#511544)

          In case you haven't figured this out yet, the axis of legal/illegal is not the same as good/evil...and the closer to orthogonal they get, the more things like this will happen. Did she do something illegal? Hell yes. Was it morally right? As far as I'm concerned, also hell yes.

          Legal and moral are not the same thing.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:47AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:47AM (#511564)

          He is objectively not a traitor by the very definition of traitor in the US constitution:

          Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @07:40AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @07:40AM (#511586)

            or in adhering to their Enemies

            Does this include whole "domestic as well as foreign" thing?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:48AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:48AM (#511566)

        He will never naturally carry a baby.

        Look, I'm basically OK with people being weird, even if it is disturbing. Just don't drag anybody else into it please. I'll even be sort of supportive if there are no children involved and I'm not expected to use a non-male pronoun.

        You're a dude. You're weird as could be. OK, whatever, it's icky but not inherently affecting anybody else very much. It's not much worse than people with horrible acne, obesity, and other grossness.

        If you start demanding I participate in your fantasy though, using "she" and "her", then I'm pissed. If you have kids or make any attempt to acquire them, I'm pissed. If you have a normal spouse who wasn't expecting this, then I'm also pretty well pissed, though less so than with an affair.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @09:46AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @09:46AM (#511610)

          Proof of you having a genetic analysis of Pvt. Manning is missing from your comment.

          Meanwhile, the possible variations of human genotypes other than XX and XY is a significant number. [wikipedia.org]

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Thursday May 18 2017, @04:36PM

          by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Thursday May 18 2017, @04:36PM (#511726) Journal

          He will never naturally carry a baby.

          Sarah Connor [wikia.com], is that you?

          --
          Merry fucking Christmas!
        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:39PM

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:39PM (#511784)

          I won't ever naturally carry a baby either, because unless Yahweh decides to make me the next Virgin Mary, lesbianism is 100% effective birth control. What's your fucking point?

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:06AM (7 children)

    by bzipitidoo (4388) on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:06AM (#511499) Journal

    What? Hey, where are my free health benefits? How come soldiers get that and civilians don't? Soldiers are superior citizens or something?

    This worship of our military has reached scary levels. Seems to have totally blinded many to the failures of force. Funny how so many can blithely overlook that the Middle East is a mess, and that the West has done more harm than good there ever since the Ottoman Empire fell. So what's the military plan for an enemy like Climate Change? Deny that it's a problem? Throw up their hands and say that's one for civilians to handle?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:27AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:27AM (#511506)

      Out of Zoloft again I see.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:31AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @02:31AM (#511509)

      Soldiers get shit pay. When I worked at a defense contractor they regularly ran fundraisers and donation drives for deployed soldier's families. It was all PR to hype the company's patriotism to ingratiate themselves with the customer - yes that's literally how they referred to the DoD, as "the customer."

      I couldn't believe that it worked because it was essentially shining a spotlight on the fact that soldiers were not paid enough to support a family. Which is counter to all the patriotic rhetoric and hero-worship lip-service that our politicians and much of the brass pay to "the troops" on a constant basis.

      So I don't begrudge them VA health benefits, even retired soldiers (and Manning is getting health benefits because she is still technically employed). The problem isn't that soldiers get reasonable good healthcare by default, its that the rest of us do not.

      • (Score: 2) by pnkwarhall on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:23AM (2 children)

        by pnkwarhall (4558) on Thursday May 18 2017, @03:23AM (#511520)
        US soldiers do not get "shit pay", and whoever mod'd this "insightful" has no idea what they're talking about. Between base pay, BAH, healthcare, and other perks working for the military is one of the best jobs around, compensation-wise. Sure, low-ranking enlisted members do not have the best base pay, but it levels up quick.
        --
        Lift Yr Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven
        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @05:57AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @05:57AM (#511554)

          By the Pentagon's own estimate, thousands of military families live in poverty. Despite recent salary increases, many enlisted men and women say they can't afford food and other basic needs.

          http://www.voanews.com/a/a-13-a-2003-01-15-5-thousands-67286427/380364.html [voanews.com]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @10:02AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @10:02AM (#511615)

          When you have presented evidence that you have swapped your current gig for an enlistment, that will be a starting point for me to accept your claim.

          If you go in as a buck private and serve out your enlistment, that will add credence to your boosterism for the credibility of the USA's aggressor force as an exemplary employer.

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:59AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 18 2017, @06:59AM (#511571)

      What? Hey, where are my free health benefits? How come soldiers get that and civilians don't?

      They are not free, health benefits are part of the employment contract between the state and the soldier.

      So what's the military plan for an enemy like Climate Change? Deny that it's a problem? Throw up their hands and say that's one for civilians to handle?

      Uhhh.... yes? These are radically different spheres of expertise we are talking about, operating military hardware does not exactly have transferable skills in climate research or political science.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 19 2017, @12:28PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 19 2017, @12:28PM (#512140)

    Guys got balls of brass and a working ethical compass. How many people in the Intelligence Community can say the same thing of themselves?

    [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
    [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
    [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

    (Richard Stallman's email signature, rms rocks)

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