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posted by martyb on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:28AM   Printer-friendly
from the call-a-spade-a-spade dept.

Common Dreams reports

As President Donald Trump continues to behave bizarrely and erratically--attacking his own attorney general, launching into a political tirade during a speech to Boy Scouts, bringing his 11-year-old son into the burgeoning Russia controversy--a professional association of psychoanalysts is telling its members to drop the so-called Goldwater Rule and comment publicly on the president's state of mind if they find reason to do so.

The Goldwater Rule was formally included in the American Psychiatric Association's "Principles of Medical Ethics" following the 1964 presidential campaign, during which a magazine editor was sued for running an article in which mental health professionals gave their opinions on [Republican] presidential candidate Barry Goldwater's psychiatric state. The rule deems public comments by psychiatrists on the mental health of public officials without consent "unethical".

In a recent email to its 3,500 members, the American Psychoanalytic Association "told its members they should not feel bound by" the Goldwater Rule, which some have characterized as a "gag rule", STAT's Sharon Begley reports.


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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:37AM (7 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:37AM (#545037)

    Psychiatrists don't diagnose the mental state of actors on stage. It's all an act.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:44AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:44AM (#545047)

      Damn right, aristarchus is fucking delusional [soylentnews.org] but you don't see the niggers-in-charge calling the crazy wagon to take him away.

      • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:58PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:58PM (#545171)

        Are you sure that Aristarchus is delusional, or is Aristarchus the delusion? Or, alternatively, Aristarchus is just a douche.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:06PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:06PM (#545201)

          It's alternately, not alternatively, unless your additional option necessarily includes a musical selection.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:47AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:47AM (#545049)

      Trump must be one dedicated method actor to be twitting such madness sunrise till dusk.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:54AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:54AM (#545054)

        When I method act I like to play the parts of three people so I can have a threesome instead of masturbating alone.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:01AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:01AM (#545059)

      It's called "method acting". The insanity is real.

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @09:08AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @09:08AM (#545082)

      I doubt it's an act. It's a rational response to having your facade as a business genius exposed as a laundering operation for Russian crime syndicates for the past 3 decades.

      https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate [newrepublic.com]

      It’s entirely possible that Trump was never more than a convenient patsy for Russian oligarchs and mobsters, with his casinos and condos providing easy pass-throughs for their illicit riches. At the very least, with his constant need for new infusions of cash and his well-documented troubles with creditors, Trump made an easy “mark” for anyone looking to launder money. But whatever his knowledge about the source of his wealth, the public record makes clear that Trump built his business empire in no small part with a lot of dirty money from a lot of dirty Russians—including the dirtiest and most feared of them all.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by jmorris on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:40AM (15 children)

    by jmorris (4844) on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:40AM (#545040)

    Every Republican candidate gets assigned one or more of "Evil", "Stupid" or "Crazy". Every single one. Doesn't matter who we nominate, the Narrative is one or more of evil, stupid or crazy. Nice Mormon guy? Evil. Every Democrat's favorite "statesman"? Crazy and Evil. Nice guy reformed drunken frat boy? Evil and Stupid. War hero? Evil. War hero, statesman, cucked but all around good guy? Evil. Popular former Governor of CA? Evil, Stupid -AND- Crazy. Ok, I will give ya Nixon as Evil but he got Crazy too and it is nuts.

    So the question you guys should be asking is, "How many times can we use the exact same playbook?" Might I suggest, certain in the knowledge you will ignore reality, that you now know the answer? You cried "WOLF!" as loudly as you possibly could, you yelled, you screamed, you committed punditry, you told everybody and their dog that Trump was the personification of "EVIL!", "STUPID!" and "CRAZY!" And the voters didn't listen. You were pointedly ignored.

    But do continue.

    • (Score: 5, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:24AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:24AM (#545070)

      "How many times can we use the exact same playbook?"

      As long as the Republicans keep being evil and stupid? We can keep this up for decades! And the fun in voting for clowns just to make a point will vanish once your health insurance, retirement benefits, and VA benefits all disappear, just to stick it to the libtards! Yeeee Ha! (Common clay of the new (old) west. You know, morons.)

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @05:23PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @05:23PM (#545280)

        Yup, here's your sign.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by tonyPick on Thursday July 27 2017, @09:19AM

      by tonyPick (1237) on Thursday July 27 2017, @09:19AM (#545090) Homepage Journal

      Hang on, weren't you also insisting that Trump does look Crazy and Stupid, but that it was all an act [soylentnews.org] and that he's just trolling us all [soylentnews.org]?

      So your current argument is that the left is making it up out of their playbook, but it's all true, but it's an act, but they're crying wolf, even though everything is true, because he's doing it on purpose.

      You really should try reality for a few days at least, just to see what it's like.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by VLM on Thursday July 27 2017, @12:23PM (8 children)

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 27 2017, @12:23PM (#545125)

      You forgot about Hitler. Every Republican is and always has been Hitler. I know a Republican isn't worth voting for unless he's been called a Hitler.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @12:49PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @12:49PM (#545138)

        C'mon, be fair. Every Democrat is a Hitler as well.

        • (Score: 2) by GlennC on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:32PM (2 children)

          by GlennC (3656) on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:32PM (#545162)

          C'mon, be fair. Every Democrat is a Hitler as well.

          I think the "Democrats" are more like Mussolini. Gotta keep up the illusion of choice, don't you know.

          --
          Sorry folks...the world is bigger and more varied than you want it to be. Deal with it.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @05:12PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @05:12PM (#545278)

            actually, if you switch those around you would be accurate. the dems are socialists and the repubs are fascists.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:48PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:48PM (#545421)

              If that was true, and you'd ever been laid off from a job, you'd now likely be a working at a workplace where you are a worker-owner (and not just another voiceless exploited employee at a top-down Capitalist operation).

              In 1985, Italy reworked its unemployment insurance law [google.com] such that a worker[1] who had been laid off by a boom-and-bust Capitalist operation could start his own worker-owned cooperative.

              [1] Since then, unemployed people are able to take the insurance benefit in a lump sum.
              It requires that that be applied to forming a co-op via a group of 10 or more unemployed workers organizing together.

              If the Dumbocrats were actually Socialists, this would be a thing in the USA.

              N.B. Bernie may like to -call- himself "socialist" but he's actually a Capitalist-friendly Imperialist who, uncharacteristic of USA politicians, simply recognizes the viability of the fiscal multiplier WRT wages.
              (Henry Ford had this figured out over a century ago.)

              .
              the repubs are fascists

              That part is correct.
              What is a fascist? How many fascists have we in the United States? How dangerous are they? -- Vice President Henry Wallace, 1944 [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [thomhartmann.com]

              -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:43PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:43PM (#545218)

        This is why you conservative types get no respect or sympathy anymore. You're too blind and stupid, oh well.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @05:52PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @05:52PM (#545291)

        To be fair, judging by your voting record, you would support a literal "literally Hitler." Aren't you a neo-nazi?!

      • (Score: 4, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Thursday July 27 2017, @10:30PM (1 child)

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday July 27 2017, @10:30PM (#545492) Journal

        You forgot about Hitler. Every Republican is and always has been Hitler.

        Hitlery [soylentnews.org]
        Hitlery [soylentnews.org]
        Hitlery [soylentnews.org]
        Hitlery [soylentnews.org]
        Hitlery [soylentnews.org]

        You were saying?

        • (Score: 2) by VLM on Friday July 28 2017, @01:24PM

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 28 2017, @01:24PM (#545746)

          Hitler is equal opportunity and Hillary can try to live up to that level. I'm just saying for decades you can tell if a Republican is a good Republican if he's called Hitler. I'm not sure that algo works on D party given the Hitlery example provides at least one disproving example.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:40PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:40PM (#545217)

      Typical, can't see the naked truth right in front of your face. I understand, when you're a delusional evil person it is very hard to recognize the evil in others.

      Obligatory: fuck off

    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday July 27 2017, @05:42PM

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday July 27 2017, @05:42PM (#545288) Journal

      So you don't like it when people who are evil and/or stupid and/or crazy get called out for being evil and/or stupid and/or crazy? Too bad: WALUIGI TIME.

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Thursday July 27 2017, @06:05PM

      by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Thursday July 27 2017, @06:05PM (#545304) Journal

      Yep. You've got guns. I've got guns. These differences are irreconcilable unless we all decide to follow that one AC's recommendation and using a series of contracts instead of a “violently imposed monopoly.” However, as many of us have noted, even that will devolve into a violently imposed monopoly.

      There is only one place to go from here.

  • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:41AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:41AM (#545046)

    Last I check, there was no repercussion to publishing fake news with anonymous mind-reading spies as sources.
    Now with less anonymous, more actual named entities to go onto the org chart.

  • (Score: 3, Troll) by kaszz on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:48AM (16 children)

    by kaszz (4211) on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:48AM (#545050) Journal

    How come that a rulebook established precisely because certain actions were deemed bad interference gets changed when a president the deep state can't control gets elected?

    Preparation for election 2020? or just hammer time until then?

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by VLM on Thursday July 27 2017, @12:36PM (14 children)

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 27 2017, @12:36PM (#545128)

      Its simpler than that. Why do all the mainstream journalists hate Trump? Because he's in the "R" group and they're almost all in the "D" group and its middle school sociology hate of the outgroup. They hate Trump viciously because he eats at the wrong lunchroom table, nothing more. If he "came out" as a D party member they'd love him as much as Hillary right now.

      Likewise take one guess about political distribution among shrinks... Given the headline above you get one, exactly one guess.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/upshot/your-surgeon-is-probably-a-republican-your-psychiatrist-probably-a-democrat.html [nytimes.com]

      Oh fall out of my chair surprised, ridiculous propagandistic soviet-era-style anti-trump rants from a group that's 76% democrat party membership. Next thing you tell me will probably be its a shocking little known scandal that illegal aliens don't like Trump very much LOL. Let me take another wild guess, public school teacher union membership doesn't like Trump either, is it because they're "so smart" or because they're over 95% D party members?

      The progs should watch out. As America steadily becomes more Soviet and makes any opposition to political progressivism an economic death penalty (check) or a mental illness (now, check) or a crime (in some cases, check), note that Stalin who was theoretically a prog, killed lots of progs. Progs need to consider that the non-progressives having been sent to the same death camp as you are, will be little comfort as you die. History shows the death machine has a start button thats easy to hit, and there's a lot of leftists scrambling to hit it ASAP before the pendulum violently swings out of their grasp, but they really need to consider is the stop button is not nearly as easy to hit.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:02PM (9 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:02PM (#545143)

        Why do all the mainstream journalists hate Trump? Because he's in the "R" group and they're almost all in the "D" group and its middle school sociology hate of the outgroup.

        Indeed, why do they dislike him? When someone keeps calling me fake, overrated, lamestream, enemy of the people, threatens to sue me, etc., every single day, I know I should start singing praises of that person. I do not understand this hostility by the press. What did Trump ever do to provoke it? I can't think of a single thing.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:06PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:06PM (#545144)

          He probably grabbed them by the truth. ;-)

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday July 27 2017, @02:07PM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 27 2017, @02:07PM (#545174) Journal

            That post reminds me of those old candy bar commercials - sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't. The post is informative, while being outrageously funny. I'll take a carton, to nibble on for the next few weeks.

          • (Score: 4, Informative) by takyon on Thursday July 27 2017, @02:25PM

            by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Thursday July 27 2017, @02:25PM (#545180) Journal

            Here's today's truth nugget [cnn.com] from the Trump inner circle:

            After Politico published a story about how the he continues to profit from the sale of his hedge fund SkyBridge Capital, Scaramucci slammed the leak of his Office of Government Ethics forms.

            "In light of the leak of my financial disclosure info which is a felony. I will be contacting @FBI and the @TheJusticeDept, he tweeted Wednesday night, adding, "#swamp @Reince45."

            The inclusion of Reince in the tweet was seen by some as an accusation.

            The financial disclosure forms, however, are publicly available, notes the Politico report, which links to them [politico.com]. CNN has not independently obtained the disclosure form.

            With just a hint of purge.

            --
            [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by unauthorized on Thursday July 27 2017, @02:29PM (2 children)

          by unauthorized (3776) on Thursday July 27 2017, @02:29PM (#545182)

          Indeed, why do they dislike him? When someone keeps calling me fake, overrated, lamestream, enemy of the people, threatens to sue me, etc., every single day, I know I should start singing praises of that person. I do not understand this hostility by the press. What did Trump ever do to provoke it? I can't think of a single thing.

          I'm not even American and even I know that this is a war that the so-called liberal press started. He didn't start lambasting the press for months of extremely negative coverage filled with what any skeptically minded person would rightfully classify as dishonest horseshit.

          • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:53PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:53PM (#545230)

            Trump IS dishonest horseshit. If the shoe fits :/ If you haven't figured that part out yet then you fall under a quite limited array of descriptors, none of them good.

          • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Sunday July 30 2017, @08:48PM

            by kaszz (4211) on Sunday July 30 2017, @08:48PM (#546814) Journal

            I doubt it's about the press really. They are just one front. There's a lot more sinister going on in the background.
            Now the press is a complete trainwreck being a oligopoly in America and quite conformist and clueless. But that is nothing new. Just try to find any accurate reporting on computer technology ;) So this has been going on for decades. But they are now being used as a explicit and synchronized attack dog. It just screams something-is-wrong-mark-me-faulty.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @09:36PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @09:36PM (#545458)

          The greatest power that the media has is its willingness to IGNORE a story.

          Stories that interest me, which I can read in alt-media, don't make it into Lamestream Media.

          These are typically items that are Science-based or would reveal people-unfriendly gov't actions.
          The usual suspects don't want to lose their "access" to USA.gov, so they won't cover stories that cast the Oligarchy in a negative light.
          In particular, PROTESTS against gov't and corporation don't get covered.

          Items that are critical of corporations' malfeasance are avoided.
          (For-profit media doesn't want to lose the advertising revenue from those corporations, so they won't cast them in a bad light.)

          By the time ATSC had replaced NTSC in 2009, I had determined that it wasn't worthwhile to invest in any new TeeVee equipment.
          Media consolidation (Reaganomics) and media's increasingly mercenary ethos had put me off of what they were offering.

          I heard a statistic that there was just 15 minutes of airtime on TeeVee last year on the topic of Global Warming.
          That's not per-outlet; that's the entirety of TeeVee.

          This is why I use the term "Lamestream Media".

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @09:55PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @09:55PM (#545471)

            I agree, 15 minutes is FAR TOO MUCH. I read a tweet that said it was a Chinese hoax. That settles it.

          • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Sunday July 30 2017, @08:51PM

            by kaszz (4211) on Sunday July 30 2017, @08:51PM (#546815) Journal

            Just had a funny idea.. The broadcast spectrum is limited. So let the public vote for which channels or networks that will get new permits to use the spectrum or slot in a mux-stream. That should keep them on their toes. And the radio spectrum IS a commons.

      • (Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday July 27 2017, @02:50PM (1 child)

        by Arik (4543) on Thursday July 27 2017, @02:50PM (#545194) Journal
        You're *almost* right, but there's more to it.

        They are Ds and they were never fans of Rs, that much is true.

        But the level of hatred, of vitriol, the way that standards of reporting haven't just been bent occasionally but rather thrown aside entirely in response to Trump, is something quite different from the way they've treated Rs in the past.

        --
        If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by http on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:08PM

          by http (1920) on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:08PM (#545204)

          In all fairness, Trump is only an R of convenience, so different treatment scans as consistent.

          --
          I browse at -1 when I have mod points. It's unsettling.
      • (Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:47PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:47PM (#545222)

        Hehehe, never an original thought from you crazy Nazis. Just pull the latest news article, the latest radio talk buzzwords and insults, slap on some patented stupidity and you've got a post worthy of being downmodded!

        • (Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday July 27 2017, @10:35PM

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 27 2017, @10:35PM (#545494)

          Thats what passes for journalism today

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by kaszz on Sunday July 30 2017, @08:56PM

      by kaszz (4211) on Sunday July 30 2017, @08:56PM (#546816) Journal

      My post is now marked "Score: 3, Troll" so at least one person marked it as "Troll" and all I asked is how come the rule book changed right now and not before or later. That points to some fairly thin skinned person or many that just can't stand even the hint of questioning what is going on. In Soviet union and other dictatorships, the leadership had the very same modus operandi.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:55AM (10 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:55AM (#545055)

    Hopefully this will trigger some pressure on the psychology/medical/psychiatry pseudoscience that has been flourishing the last few decades.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:59AM (9 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:59AM (#545057)

      Fuck that shit. Let's return to the good old days when mental illness was a sign of demonic possession. Burn the witches.

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:22AM (8 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:22AM (#545069)

        Well today they are diagnosing ~1/6 people with some kind of "mental illness"[1], you are claiming during the time of possessions they were missing all these? Or perhaps they were actually more accurate at diagnosing these types of problems back then?

        [1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/1-in-6-americans-takes-a-psychiatric-drug/ [scientificamerican.com]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @10:55AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @10:55AM (#545103)

          Well today they are diagnosing ~1/6 people with some kind of "mental illness"[1]

          1/6 taking psychiatric mess does not mean 1/6 have some kind of mental illness. It means 1/6 were susceptible to Big Pharma marketing and asked their doctors for a drug so they wouldn't have to try so hard at life (news flash: life is hard for almost everyone).

          Sure, being the victim of marketing could be considered a form of mental illness. But I would hazard a guess that more than 1/6 could be painted with that brush.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by VLM on Thursday July 27 2017, @12:47PM (5 children)

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 27 2017, @12:47PM (#545137)

          Well today they are diagnosing ~1/6 people with some kind of "mental illness"[1]

          Speaking of that, from a corruption standpoint, ask your barber sometime if he thinks you should get a haircut. Or ask a Realtor (tm) if today is a good day to buy or sell a house. Or ask a bartender if she thinks you look thirsty. Or ask a SN admin if today is a good day to donate (LOL)...

          Mix that in with some of the pills being psuedoscience or fake (not all, but some)...

          Then consider that docs are smart and there's likely self selection pressure such that pre-med with, shall we say, flexible ethics, are not going to be repelled from the wild and whacky psych field, but pre-med with strong ethical background are going to be propelled into something a bit more honest like ER doc, perhaps. Then the field self selects and strengthens itself to a stereotype and next thing you know they're all like the stereotype...

          • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:04PM (1 child)

            by deimtee (3272) on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:04PM (#545199) Journal

            You gotta ask, why does every male psychiatrist have a goatee?

            --
            If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @04:03PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @04:03PM (#545237)

              Better a goatee than a goatse.

          • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:56PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:56PM (#545232)

            You just see conspiracy everywhere, and magically it lines up with your political ideologies. I think those psychs you hate have a good term for it: delusional.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @05:07PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @05:07PM (#545274)

              No, there are fields of psychology that study why the delusions of psychology researchers and the clinicians they inform seem so difficult to stamp out. These delusions are not actually controversial. They are provably incorrect using well accepted mathematical and logical rules: http://library.mpib-berlin.mpg.de/ft/gg/GG_Mindless_2004.pdf [mpib-berlin.mpg.de]

            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Thursday July 27 2017, @10:47PM

              by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 27 2017, @10:47PM (#545498)

              One conspiracy is "people like money" and the other conspiracy is someone faked the entire history of the soviet system of using mental illness as a shaming or punishment system for obviously political purposes and people of the same political persuasion have taken over the field in here, also. My money's on "people like money"

              My example were also kinda negative. Consider asking a dietitian if you should hire them because the american diet sucks, or asking a gym owner if more fat lazy americans should exercise.

              Something rather obvious about standards of care is emergency rooms will at least go thru the motions of treating anyone with a physical injury, like being found in an alley with a gunshot wound. However mental treatment seems solely determined by payment, well insured people with a spider phobia can get treatment, crazy homeless dude generally isn't being treated. That would seem to imply mental treatment is only a slight step up from 900 number seances and faith healing in general, fool and money soon parted etc. I mean, if their stuff really worked, we'd treat it like emergency room heart attacks, treat their field seriously.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by TheRaven on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:57AM (6 children)

    by TheRaven (270) on Thursday July 27 2017, @07:57AM (#545056) Journal
    They did not free members from the Goldwater Rule. The rule still applies, they are not allowed to diagnose anyone that they have not had as a patient in a clinical setting. They are; however, allowed to make public statements based on their expertise that are not diagnoses: for example, it's fine for them to say 'based on the behaviour that I've observed, Donald Trump is a pathological narcissist,' but that is not a diagnosis and should not be treated as one.
    --
    sudo mod me up
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by tonyPick on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:45AM (2 children)

      by tonyPick (1237) on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:45AM (#545077) Homepage Journal

      They are; however, allowed to make public statements based on their expertise that are not diagnoses

      Uh. That's what the goldwater rule prohibits, and is being repealed AIUI? TFA:

      The rule states that it is unethical to offer a professional opinion about a public figure’s mental health....

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by TheRaven on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:02PM (1 child)

        by TheRaven (270) on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:02PM (#545142) Journal
        TFA that you quoted that from seems to be written by someone who skim-read another article about the actual announcement. The announcement that they sent out explicitly stated that they were not freeing members from the Goldwater Rule, but that they were clarifying its meaning.
        --
        sudo mod me up
        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:25PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:25PM (#545160) Journal
          Except of course, they are freeing members from that part of the Goldwater Rule. Maybe it's only a partial freeing with some residual of the Goldwater Rule still in place, but the AC's point remains. And let us keep in mind that it's your words now that are stating that they are freeing members from this aspect of the Goldwater Rule.

          They are; however, allowed to make public statements based on their expertise that are not diagnoses: for example, it's fine for them to say 'based on the behaviour that I've observed, Donald Trump is a pathological narcissist,' but that is not a diagnosis and should not be treated as one.

          The public will totally dig that distinction.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:48AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:48AM (#545079)

      it's fine for them to say 'based on the behaviour that I've observed, Donald Trump is a pathological narcissist,'

      "while Bill Clinton was a psychopath and Hillary Clinton is a narcissist with co-morbid sociopathy."

      It's not as if you need training or a clinical setting to make theses diagnoses. The question is, what are we going to do about these dangerous pathologies at the wider, societal level?

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by c0lo on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:46PM (1 child)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:46PM (#545164) Journal

        The question is, what are we going to do about these dangerous pathologies at the wider, societal level?

        Kill them, kill them all.
        No, not the pathological cases, you silly... the wider society needs cleansing.

        (grin)

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Thursday July 27 2017, @02:15PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 27 2017, @02:15PM (#545176) Journal

          Wrong answer. The correct answer is, "We'll vote them into high office!"

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:13AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @08:13AM (#545065)

    This is his secret plan to dispatch ISIS. They think we're in disarray and self-destructing, then POW!!!

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @11:05AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @11:05AM (#545106)

    It's Trump time and the rules go out the window...

    Even for his opponents...

    Seriously what is the benefit of breaking this rule? You think those who aren't already against Trump will change their opinions because some "expert" says Trump is nuts? Looks like those psychiatrists need their brains checked.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:56PM (6 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 27 2017, @01:56PM (#545169) Journal

    We like to observe some civilized rules, but we hate Trump so badly, we're giving up civlized behaviour.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @02:47PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @02:47PM (#545193)

      American Psychoanalytic Association

      Psychoanalysis has already been discredited, so I wouldn't call them civilized.

      I could be wrong, but weren't you one of the people that were supporting an MD that was publicly diagnosing Clinton with some sort of neuropathology?

      Either way, medical professionals publicaly speculating about non-patients are not worthy of respect and I'd hope reputable medical associations would disavow them.

      • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:46PM (1 child)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:46PM (#545220) Journal

        I likely agreed that Clinton is neuro, if someone had stated so. I know that Clinton is evil. I feared Clinton being in charge of our country like any parent would fear a demon from hell babysitting their children.

        As for diagnosing Clinton, all on my own, I don't think so. I simply don't speak psychobabble.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:33PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:33PM (#545214)

      What's good for the goose is good for the gander, fight fire with fire, etc.

    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday July 27 2017, @06:04PM (1 child)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday July 27 2017, @06:04PM (#545301) Journal

      So you're opposed to Psychiatrists stating their political opinions.

      What was that about lefties being the ones who dislike free speech?

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday July 27 2017, @11:58PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 27 2017, @11:58PM (#545533) Journal

        Lefties stating their political opinions is one thing. A leftist "medical" profession passing judgement on political figures is quite another thing. You know that, and I know that, why do you even try to confuse the issue?

        If Joe Blow arrives on the scene of an accident (Yes, our political picture does resemble the scene of a disaster.) and voices random opinions about what should be done, that's cool. But, if Joe claims to be an EMT, a nurse, paramedic, or doctor, he had BETTER know just what the hell he is talking about, because people will take him seriously.

        Joe Blow the non-medical passerby may suggest a tourniquet around the neck, and no one takes the damned fool seriousl. Joe Blow the medical professional suggests a tourniquet around the neck, and you can bet your ass that SOMEONE believes Joe, just because he's a doctor. Joe is still a damned fool, but he's a DOCTOR!!

        In this specific case, shrinks aren't competent to voice political opinions, so they shouldn't be using their "professional" status to lend weight to their political opinions.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:06PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 27 2017, @03:06PM (#545202)

    What does Elron say?

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