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posted by takyon on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:11PM   Printer-friendly
from the conversation-starter dept.

Submitted via IRC for TheMightyBuzzard

Alphabet Inc.'s Google has fired an employee who wrote an internal memo blasting the web company's diversity policies, creating a firestorm across Silicon Valley. James Damore, the Google engineer who wrote the note, confirmed his dismissal in an email, saying that he had been fired for "perpetuating gender stereotypes." He said he's "currently exploring all possible legal remedies."

[...] Earlier on Monday, Google CEO Sundar Pichai sent a note to employees that said portions of the memo "violate our Code of Conduct and cross the line by advancing harmful gender stereotypes in our workplace." But he didn't say if the company was taking action against the employee. A Google representative, asked about the dismissal, referred to Pichai's memo.

[...] After the controversy swelled, Danielle Brown, Google's new vice president for diversity, integrity and governance, sent a statement to staff condemning Damore's views and reaffirmed the company's stance on diversity. In internal discussion boards, multiple employees said they supported firing the author, and some said they would not choose to work with him, according to postings viewed by Bloomberg News.

"We are unequivocal in our belief that diversity and inclusion are critical to our success as a company," Brown said in the statement. "We'll continue to stand for that and be committed to it for the long haul."

Source: Bloomberg.

[Update: Apparently Julian Assange has offered James Damore a job, saying that "Censorship is for losers". - Fnord666]

Previously: Googler's Memo on Culture of Diversity Extremism Goes Viral Inside Google


Original Submission

Related Stories

James Damore's Labor Complaint Against Google Was Completely Shut Down 87 comments

From The Verge:

Google didn't violate labor laws by firing engineer James Damore for a memo criticizing the company's diversity program, according to a recently disclosed letter from the US National Labor Relations Board. The lightly redacted statement is written by Jayme Sophir, associate general counsel of the NLRB's division of advice; it dates to January, but was released yesterday, according to Law.com. Sophir concludes that while some parts of Damore's memo were legally protected by workplace regulations, "the statements regarding biological differences between the sexes were so harmful, discriminatory, and disruptive as to be unprotected."

Damore filed an NLRB complaint in August of 2017, after being fired for internally circulating a memo opposing Google's diversity efforts. Sophir recommends dismissing the case; Bloomberg reports that Damore withdrew it in January, and that his lawyer says he's focusing on a separate lawsuit alleging discrimination against conservative white men at Google. NLRB records state that its case was closed on January 19th.

There are White House Staff positions open, I hear.

Previously: Google Fires Author of Divisive Memo on Gender Differences
Google Cancels "Town Hall" Due to Leaks


Original Submission

Googler's Memo on Culture of Diversity Extremism Goes Viral Inside Google 206 comments

Gizmodo got their hands on an internal memo gone viral at Google that criticizes extreme biases and blind promotion of diversity. The memo's author confronts the practice of silencing such minority opinions through shame:

"Despite what the public response seems to have been, I've gotten many personal messages from fellow Googlers expressing their gratitude for bringing up these very important issues which they agree with but would never have the courage to say or defend because of our shaming culture and the possibility of being fired. This needs to change."

Are these hints of the writing on the proverbial wall? One fears the diversity pendulum will break rather than be allowed to swing back.

[Update: Google has written a memo to its employees about the document. - ed]

Also at Motherboard and BBC.


Original Submission

Google Cancels "Town Hall" Due to Leaks 100 comments

Google is struggling to discuss the recent diversity memo controversy internally:

Google's CEO, Sundar Pichai, canceled a scheduled all-hands staff meeting—moments before it was scheduled to begin—meant to address concerns over a controversial essay published by former employee James Damore.

In an email to staff, Pichai explained that questions from employees had been leaked and that, in some cases, specific employees' identities were revealed, exposing them to harassment and threats. Instead of today's large-scale meeting, which was to be livestreamed to Google's 60,000 employees worldwide, smaller groups will meet sometime in the future.

"We had hoped to have a frank open discussion today as we always do to bring us together and move forward. But our Dory questions appeared externally this afternoon, and on some websites Googlers are now being named personally," Pichai said in the email.

Also at CNET.


Original Submission

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(1) 2
  • (Score: 5, Funny) by DECbot on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:15PM (19 children)

    by DECbot (832) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:15PM (#550743) Journal

    HR fires employee for commenting that HR's discrimination policy is discriminatory.

    In similar researchers declare fire as 'hot'. More at 11.

    --
    cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:43PM (16 children)

      Hope they have fun dealing with the labor board and the lawsuit. What they did may have been in line with policy but it was not in line with the law [cnbc.com].

      --
      "Buzzy, you're probably the dumbest person I've ever encountered. Well, there is aristarchus, so make it 2nd dumbest."
      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Justin Case on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:58PM

        by Justin Case (4239) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:58PM (#550764) Journal

        They are probably planning to pay off the lawsuit as a cost of doing business to hush this guy.

        After all, this is a situation where Something Must Be Done so they had to be seen Doing Something About It.

        We can't tolerate diversity of opinion on the Sacred Precepts of diversity and tolerance!

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by bob_super on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:03PM (12 children)

        by bob_super (1357) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:03PM (#550767)

        "At will" state ? People finding him unpleasant to work with is enough for a dismissal.

        I'm pretty sure Google's highly paid lawyers worked overtime to greenlight such a high profile firing before it happened.

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:09PM (11 children)

          Read the link. It's from an actual business employment consulting lawyer.

          --
          "Buzzy, you're probably the dumbest person I've ever encountered. Well, there is aristarchus, so make it 2nd dumbest."
          • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:20PM (10 children)

            by bob_super (1357) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:20PM (#550779)

            I read the link. But there is no way Google terminated that guy without approval from their significant pool of lawyers, so his short arguments aren't the final word on the topic.
            He's obviously going to try to sue, let's see which high-profile lawyer rushes first to take his case...

            • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:03PM (9 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:03PM (#550788)

              It's still an at will state so at will, either party can say bye-bye with no need for a reason. He has no case. Even if they try to weedle it to be he's engaging in political discourse by posting that crud, he has no case.

              To all you who have usurped the word conservative who are frothing at the mouth right now, wah wah go create your own company and hire only who you want and succeed where you feel Google is failing. Then you can point out the superiority of your opinions. Otherwise you are just spewing hot air on a completely unrelated thread and nothing will change. Blow away, but no one will be seeing for Conservoogle any time soon.

              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by NewNic on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:07PM

                by NewNic (6420) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:07PM (#550790) Journal

                It's still an at will state so at will, either party can say bye-bye with no need for a reason. He has no case. Even if they try to weedle it to be he's engaging in political discourse by posting that crud, he has no case.

                Firing him for no reason is completely legal. Firing him with a reason that is contrary to employment law is problematic.

                My guess: they already worked out a settlement with this guy.

                --
                lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
              • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:17AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:17AM (#550869)

                You missed an important detail.

                States can't pre-empt federal employment law. Period. At-will, right-to-work, agency, union ... doesn't matter.

                They all fall under federal law.

                And the link above points out that Google is looking for trouble under FEDERAL employment law.

                Got that? California may or may not have a dog in this fight, but the FEDERAL employment groups sure as hell do - even the NLRB, even if he's not in a union. The NLRB has a mandate that stretches beyond unions.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @06:30AM (6 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @06:30AM (#550975)

                To all you who have usurped the word conservative who are frothing at the mouth right now, wah wah go create your own company and hire only who you want and succeed where you feel Google is failing.

                ... any chair in a bar fight.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:08AM (5 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:08AM (#550986)

                  το θάνατο στους Τούρκους και φασίστες

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:26AM (4 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:26AM (#550991)

                    το θάνατο στους Τούρκους και φασίστες [Death to the Turks and fascists]

                    The fascists in this case being the ones attempting thought control.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:57AM (3 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:57AM (#551003)

                      You really should look into Nazi and Italian and Spanish Fascist positions on the place of women in society! It's OK, we will wait.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @08:26AM (2 children)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @08:26AM (#551017)

                        I was unaware that Google was owned by Italy and Spain.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @09:56AM (1 child)

                          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @09:56AM (#551045)

                          There is much you are unaware of, judging by your posts here.

                          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @10:55AM

                            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @10:55AM (#551054)

                            Unsurprisingly, ad hominem and nothing else.

      • (Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:27PM (1 child)

        by LoRdTAW (3755) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:27PM (#550780) Journal

        I honestly hope they throw the book at Google.

        • (Score: 5, Funny) by looorg on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:32PM

          by looorg (578) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:32PM (#550781)

          ... they'll just scan it and add it to their library project.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 10 2017, @08:19AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 10 2017, @08:19AM (#551516)
      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Friday August 11 2017, @12:33AM

        by kaszz (4211) on Friday August 11 2017, @12:33AM (#551973) Journal

        They are on track until the last three paragraphs.

  • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:22PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:22PM (#550745)

    Google Dick, by Heman Merkin
    Chapter 100 - Leg and Arm. The Soylent of Nantucket, Meets the Julian Assaunge, of Wickedleaks

    "Hast seen the White Male!"
    "See you this?" and withdrawing it from the folds that had hidden it, he held up a white arm of sperm whale bone, terminating in a wooden head like a mallet.
    "Man my boat!" cried Pichai, impetuously, and tossing about the oars near him- "Stand by to lower!"
    . . .
    “There would be great glory in killing him, I know that; and there is a ship-load of precious sperm in him, but, hark ye, he's best let alone; don't you think so, Captain?"- glancing at the ivory leg.
    "He is. But he will still be hunted, for all that. What is best let alone, that accursed thing is not always what least allures. He's all a magnet! How long since thou sawist him last? Which way heading?"
    "Bless my soul, and curse the foul fiend's," cried Bunger, stoopingly walking round Pichai, and like a dog, strangely snuffing; "this man's blood- bring the thermometer!- it's at the boiling point!- his pulse makes these planks beat!- sir!"- taking a lancet from his pocket, and drawing near to Pichai's arm.
    "Avast!" roared Pichai, dashing him against the bulwarks- "Man the boat! Which way heading?"
    "Good God!" cried the English Captain, to whom the question was put. "What's the matter? He was heading east, I think.- Is your Captain crazy?" whispering Fedallah.

  • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:26PM (9 children)

    by Grishnakh (2831) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:26PM (#550746)

    This reminds me of a particular Spaniard....

    What exactly did he think would happen?

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by edIII on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:38PM (4 children)

      by edIII (791) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:38PM (#550749)

      What exactly did he think would happen?

      That we would magically be transported back the 1950's where all the women at Google were in high heels and employed as secretaries?

      That being said, IIRC he put in a complaint with the NLRB beforehand. That does indicate he was expecting a fight that would require union assistance to win.

      • (Score: 4, Touché) by unauthorized on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:17PM (2 children)

        by unauthorized (3776) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:17PM (#550775)

        That we would magically be transported back the 1950's where all the women at Google were in high heels and employed as secretaries?

        Or perhaps that people would see discrimination against people based on sex and skin pigmentation is wrong? Naah, can't be that, he is a white man, he must have some evil ulterior motive that ultimately leads to gassing the Jews!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @03:04AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @03:04AM (#550902)

          Was this guy in HR? Was he making hiring decisions? NO? Then where the fuck is your "discrimination?" Go fuck yourself. I can smell a commie like you a mile away.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @08:56AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @08:56AM (#551027)

            I can smell a commie like you a mile away.

            Is this because they are stealing your vital essence fluids? "Never see a Commie drink water, do ya, Mandrake."

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:50PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:50PM (#550828)

        In the 1950's the women at Google were still in their mother's imagination.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by DannyB on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:50PM (3 children)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:50PM (#550761)

      This reminds me of a particular Spaniard....

      Inigo Montoya?

      who famously said

      You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

      --
      ALL LIABILITY IS EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMED FOR PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH THAT RESULTS FROM READING THE SOURCE CODE.
      • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:13PM (2 children)

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:13PM (#550774)

        I think you're projecting.

        From Wikipedia: [wikipedia.org]
        "[Quixotism] also serves to describe an idealism without regard to practicality. An impulsive person or act might be regarded as quixotic."
        "Quixotism is usually related to "over-idealism", meaning an idealism that doesn't take consequence or absurdity into account."
        Also, from here: [wikipedia.org]
        "It may also connote an importune, unfounded, and vain effort against adversaries real or imagined for a vain goal."

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @05:57AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @05:57AM (#550963)

          But, American! Here is the end of Chapter 42 of Moby Dick: the original:

          Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way? Or is it, that as in essence whiteness is not so much a color as the visible absence of color; and at the same time the concrete of all colors; is it for these reasons that there is such a dumb blankness, full of meaning, in a wide landscape of snows- a colorless, all-color of atheism from which we shrink? And when we consider that other theory of the natural philosophers, that all other earthly hues- every stately or lovely emblazoning- the sweet tinges of sunset skies and woods; yea, and the gilded velvets of butterflies, and the butterfly cheeks of young girls; all these are but subtile deceits, not actually inherent in substances, but only laid on from without; so that all deified Nature absolutely paints like the harlot, whose allurements cover nothing but the charnel-house within; and when we proceed further, and consider that the mystical cosmetic which produces every one of her hues, the great principle of light, for ever remains white or colorless in itself, and if operating without medium upon matter, would touch all objects, even tulips and roses, with its own blank tinge- pondering all this, the palsied universe lies before us a leper; and like wilful travellers in Lapland, who refuse to wear colored and coloring glasses upon their eyes, so the wretched infidel gazes himself blind at the monumental white shroud that wraps all the prospect around him. And of all these things the Albino whale was the symbol. Wonder ye then at the fiery hunt?

          Wonder ye then, at the fiery hunt for the White Male?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:12AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:12AM (#550987)

            so the wretched infidel gazes himself blind at the monumental white shroud that wraps all the prospect around him.

            Interesting analogy; snowblindness, and blindness to white male privilege, what are the odds that Melville intended such a meaning? What are the odds that the White Male in question has read Moby Dick? Truely, these are the days of high American illiteracy!

  • (Score: 5, Funny) by Grishnakh on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:30PM (37 children)

    by Grishnakh (2831) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:30PM (#550747)

    Well, on the bright side, Google is now a little bit closer to achieving gender parity....

    • (Score: 5, Troll) by DannyB on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:47PM (6 children)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:47PM (#550757)

      Google must not quit until it has complete gender parity!

      Furthermore, Google must achieve hiring parody/parity in all other areas without discrimination. Race. Religion. (height, weight, shoe size, etc)

      Because all people are equally capable of performing highly skilled technology jobs.

      I'm sure you will join me in applauding Google achieving diversity by hiring mentally challenged and/or illiterate people for high tech jobs. They're all equally capable. Even the US President or congress critters could to these jobs.

      --
      ALL LIABILITY IS EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMED FOR PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH THAT RESULTS FROM READING THE SOURCE CODE.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @12:28AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @12:28AM (#550848)

        Even the US President or congress critters could to these jobs.

        +1

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @09:30AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @09:30AM (#551040)

        Ah, the elusive 5-point troll!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @02:59PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @02:59PM (#551126)

        I have never seen a +5 "Troll" moderated post.

        Well done. Although, I would not have considered this to be a "troll" in the traditional sense.

        It's enthusiasic sarcasm. Sarcasm is often only trollish to those that feel embarassed when the truth is exposed to them in this way...

        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday August 09 2017, @09:22PM (1 child)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 09 2017, @09:22PM (#551305)

          I got a +5 Troll only once on that green site about 15 or more years ago when they had a router melt down in their co-location cage.

          This is the 2nd time I got one here. So either I'm getting better (or worse?) at something, or it says something about the crowd here.

          --
          ALL LIABILITY IS EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMED FOR PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH THAT RESULTS FROM READING THE SOURCE CODE.
          • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday August 10 2017, @04:24AM

            by hemocyanin (186) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 10 2017, @04:24AM (#551452)

            I think whoever it was who saw that you were a +4 Troll and then modded you "underrated" -- is a comedic genius.

        • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday August 11 2017, @12:27AM

          by takyon (881) Subscriber Badge <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Friday August 11 2017, @12:27AM (#551971) Journal

          Underrated/Overrated do not change a label. The last mod to stick will become the label if there is no mod plurality. So +1 Insightful, -1 Troll and a bunch of underrated will get the job done. If you got modded Touché, Insightful, Informative, Interesting, Troll, and Underrated in that order with no karma bonus applied, you should have a +5 Troll post.

          --
          [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by MostCynical on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:34PM (29 children)

      by MostCynical (2589) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:34PM (#550823)

      Would a black woman have been fired for posting what Mr Damore wrote?

      What about if it were a white woman?

      A woman who outwardly identified as lesbian?

      A trans person?

      If any of these would have been treated differently to Mr Damore, then the diversity policy is discriminatory.

      --
      tau = 300. Greek circles must have been weird.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @12:10AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @12:10AM (#550839)

        Don't be silly, none of these could possibly write such a memo. Only a conservative white Chrisitian male could write such a memo. That is why firing him is not discriminatory. See?

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by JavaDevGuy on Wednesday August 09 2017, @12:27AM (27 children)

        by JavaDevGuy (5155) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @12:27AM (#550847)

        Try this thought experiment, replace the word woman in Mr Damore's document with the world hispanic, or asian, or black, how does it read now? Would anyone writing a similar document be tolerated in any business for authoring such a racist document? I hope not. He has the freedom of speech but should not be surprised when he abuses that freedom to write a misogynistic tract that people sanction him for exposing those views.

        Claiming this to be freedom of speech issue and positioning this as some kind of complaint about diversity gone mad shows how little understanding he had about the need for diversity, he simply reinforces that need in the worst possible way. Somehow we have someone working for a 21st C company dedging up the same arguments used in the 19th C to suggest women should not have universal suffrage. He absolutely had the right to expose to all the views he held, now come the consequences.

        • (Score: 3, Touché) by arcz on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:18AM

          by arcz (4501) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:18AM (#550870) Journal

          I call bullshit on your reply. I absolutely DO NOT support racist policies like having programs for one specific race.
          I would support him even if he were speaking on race instead of gender, the basic problem is the same.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:23AM (6 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:23AM (#550872)

          Ok, I tried your thought experiment.

          And it doesn't fit, because the appeals to well-investigated science in question don't map to those other categories. What he said was founded in specific, well-explored scientific fields on sex differences.

          But even so, assuming that he had similarly well-explored science backing him up, mutatis mutandis, with respect to, for example, hispanic people, it wouldn't have been problematic.

          What you seem to have missed was that he was saying that Google is being sexist, and racist, and bigoted with respect to politics, and he was trying to get them to undo their sexism and racism and bigotry.

          Now read it again, with attention. There will be a test next Thursday.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:30AM (5 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:30AM (#550875)

            specific, well-explored sexist and racist republican scientific fantasies about the fields on sex differences.

            FTFY.

            First, they came out with Faux News, and I said nothing.
            Then, they came out with fake news, and I said nothing.
            After that, they came out with fake science, and I had to say, WTF?

            • (Score: 2, Informative) by kurenai.tsubasa on Wednesday August 09 2017, @02:12AM (4 children)

              by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @02:12AM (#550884) Journal

              Um, I'm pretty certain the research hasn't come from Republicans. They're just as beholden to and invested in social gender theory as feminists are.

              Granted, there was some transphobic Christian think-tank that almost got it right, if only their analysis had included the brain being a gendered organ. So close, and yet so far.

              I know—empirical evidence such as male children, like normal male children, not intersexed etc, who are raised from birth as girls (one famous case of a botched circumcision resulting in complete genital amputation… would that I could trade places with that person but c'est la vie) nearly consistently transition to living as men later in life, despite being completely socialized from birth as a girl. Despite being injected with estrogen beginning at the medically appropriate age iirc.

              Empirical evidence is just simply not convenient for social gender theory. It also has the strange side-effect of legitimizing the experiences of every trans man (and trans woman) out there. How odd, and how un-feminist, no?

              Fuck your caste system.

              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday August 09 2017, @04:08AM

                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 09 2017, @04:08AM (#550937) Journal

                Meh, the ones who insist gender is entirely social and the ones who insist it's entirely biological are both equally wrong and both for the same reason: they don't seem to understand the idea of emergent properties. The intersection and interactions of a person's brain structure, prenatal environment, hormones, cultural ideas about gender, and individual experience all give rise to one's identity.

                --
                I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @10:49AM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @10:49AM (#551052)

                Could you please take your constant, and boring, tranny screeds somewhere more appropriate?

                Every evil in the universe is not based in the travails of confused sexuality.

                • (Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:51PM

                  by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:51PM (#551090) Journal

                  No!

                  Next question?

                • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday August 09 2017, @03:47PM

                  by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @03:47PM (#551156)

                  STFU asshole. Her "screeds" are completely relevant in this discussion thread, which in case your little brain didn't notice, is all about gender and the differences between genders.

        • (Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:44AM (11 children)

          by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:44AM (#550878) Journal

          *sigh* I guess I'm going to have to actually read the thing.

          *reads*

          Woah, holy shit!

          Biological males that were castrated at birth and raised as females often still identify and act like males

          Do I need to read anything more from this anti-feminist? Now I'm intrigued!

          Feminism has made great progress in freeing women from the female gender role, but men are still very much tied to the male gender role. If we, as a society, allow men to be more “feminine,” then the gender gap will shrink, although probably because men will leave tech and leadership for traditionally feminine roles.

          Well! I can certainly see why a feminist would have problems with this memo!

          It's just a fucking caste system with feminists, isn't it? Can't have feminine males. Can't have those assigned to the male gender caste acting in womyn-born-womyn only roles. I mean, what's next?! Holy shit, you mean he wants to take away professions and roles reserved exclusively for womyn-born-womyn? He wants to let men into the kitchen! Omg, panic everybody! Panic!

          And for goddess' sake the first bit I quoted! How dare he present empirical evidence that the brain is a gendered organ, which has a gendered determined before birth (in the womb, i.e. he noted testosterone level differences in the womb—he didn't say, but it's 2nd month iirc that may determine brain gender)! How dare he imply that gender is not merely a social construct—a vast conspiracy of 3.6 (and counting) billion individuals for the express purpose of oppressing womyn-born-womyn!

          I just….

          Try this thought experiment, replace the word woman in Mr Damore's document with the world hispanic, or asian, or black, how does it read now?

          I can't tell you how it reads because you're trying to compare apples and oranges. Seriously, if you fucking think gender is only skin deep like skin color (we'll assume that skin color is merely skin deep… no, I don't want to hear from an MD telling me about sickle cell anemia! beyond scope of argument! We're talking about cognition here.)

          If you fucking think gender is only skin deep like skin color, please go back to Janice Raymond or Germaine Greer or whoever and tell her to soak her damned head. The death wish people like that have for people like me is mutual.

          Consequences… yes, another person assigned to the male gender caste at birth is learning the consequences of challenging feminism's social gender theory, and I'm sure he's learning his place as an assigned member of the inferior, “incomplete” gender.

          Either that or hopefully he's getting angry, as fucking angry as I am. This guy gets it. The brain is a gendered organ, whether that's convenient for you fucking feminists or not.

          I know what consequences are like personally. Check my post history, or I can post it again if you don't want to wade through that, just so you understand that injustices have happened to me, injustices that will likely never find answer.

          At least it sounds like this guy didn't get his healthcare directly fucked with like mine was. I guess feminism just saves direct fuck-overs for trans women only. (He's still effectively fucked over, don't get me wrong.)

          • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday August 09 2017, @02:03AM (1 child)

            by kaszz (4211) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @02:03AM (#550883) Journal

            Any link that explains the story about where your health care fucked up?

            Btw, to dig deeper into the issue:
            Average IQ by country [iq-research.info]

            Though I think IQ misses the wisdom and creativity side. So while IQ is the shit to get through college etc. There's more to doing great things. A reading of Nobel prize winner bios hints a lot towards this.

            • (Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Wednesday August 09 2017, @02:31AM

              by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @02:31AM (#550890) Journal

              Ah, that's a data set that can be terribly misinterpreted if we don't control for poverty levels. And as you note, there be dragons looking solely at IQ.

              Heh, even I don't want to dig through my post history to find the last time I outlined what happened to me.

              Basically, I was between doctors and suddenly lost access to my meds. I'm certain this was in retaliation for a certain very specific (and somewhat tense) exchange between… (*checks client confidentially agreement*) between another assigned male and a feminist, but I'll never be able to prove it. If I ever found hard evidence, I would probably be able to retaliate myself with a sueball or two.

              Anyway, I would have run out of my meds before I could have possibly gotten a new letter of recommendation from a psychologist to become established in a new practice. Health care for a trans person is something that nobody is willing to provide around here just like they will for a cisgendered person walking off the street with any other rare condition.

              So, I did what I had to do, weighed options, and decided that my new medical home would be in the big city, even if driving out there is a royal pain that requires me to take time off. Fortunately, my employer is understanding.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @02:48AM (8 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @02:48AM (#550896)

            I did not realize that womyn-born womyn was a term that you did not make up until I read this article [wikipedia.org].

            • (Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday August 09 2017, @04:10AM (2 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 09 2017, @04:10AM (#550938) Journal

              Yeah, Kurenai is nuttier than squirrel diarrhea but she's E. O. Motherloving Wilson compared to the TERFs. I am still, several years later, a mixture of amused and bemused at being called "traitor to the lesbian race" by one of them, to my face, for daring to suggest that trans* people are humans too and aren't just crazy.

              That Horseshoe Effect is a killer. I never thought I would see Bible-bashers and radfems swapping arguments, but there you go...

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:14AM (1 child)

                by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:14AM (#550988) Journal

                About time you got here, Azuma! Please explain, "horseshoe effect"? Have an idea, but want to be sure.

                --
                #Free{nick}_NOW!!!
                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:49PM

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:49PM (#551265) Journal

                  Basically, when two groups of extremists who are supposedly at odds with one another find out that their mutual batshittery has pushed them surprisingly close together in terms of their beliefs and arguments.

                  The example in question here would be hardcore TERFs ("trans-exclusive radical feminists") and "conservative" "Christians." It is sometimes very difficult to tell them apart when the subject of trans* people, almost always trans* women, comes up. (Trans* man, of course, are even more invisible than lesbians...).

                  In particular, both of them will usually invoke 1) There are only two genders and they are determined by genitalia/chromosomes/something else physical (the Christians will add "by God" here), 2) Trans* people are mentally ill simply for being trans*, 3) Trans* people are usually or always predators, of ("real women"|"womyn") and/or children, and 4) Trans* people are transgressing the "natural order."

                  Whatever the assumptions one makes, whether the "natural order" is God-ordained or simply metaphysically naturalist, both of these groups see either mental illness or willful perversion at work here. And, to a man/woman, they're ignorant of everything from the idea of emergence/supervenience to the very long and well-documented history of gender-variance in ancient societies to the peer-reviewed literature on brain difference between cisgender and trans* individuals.

                  It's basically just bigotry and icks wrapped up in a veneer of pseudoscience and pseudo-logic. Do I "get" the trans* thing personally? No. But human is human, and I will not stand by and allow a fellow human to be abused simply for being transgender or transsexual. They are not insane simply for being trans*, there is a long history of third/other-gender concepts in human civilization, and modern science shows that they're not "choosing" this.

                  --
                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
            • (Score: 2, Insightful) by kurenai.tsubasa on Wednesday August 09 2017, @04:21PM (4 children)

              by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @04:21PM (#551180) Journal

              I'll admit to completely making up “gender caste.” I just cannot think of anything else that can adequately express the absolutely arbitrary and bigoted attitudes that TERFs hold (who appear to be the vast majority of feminists from over here, but maybe I'm just living in bizarro world). They exhibit all the patterns of thought that, according to Altemeyer, describe a right-wing authoritarian follower.

              (For example, mention intersexed people as a way of illustrating that biology is messy and they go all concern troll on you, eventually coming back around to their dogma that the brain is not a gendered organ. I don't even know if they literally believe that the womb is the seat of the soul, but that's what everything they say seems to imply. That's just how right-wing authoritarian followers roll. Compartmentalization of concerns, regurgitated talking points, and a +15 to doublethink.)

              • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:52PM (2 children)

                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:52PM (#551267) Journal

                You are seeing things through a crooked lens, yes, though given your experiences I really cannot blame you. But I guarantee you the TERFs are a small minority as I've been saying to you with nearly every reply.

                They're a very noisy minority though, so they tend to be much more visible than most of us, who are basically just humanists who realize that there is a major, major problem with the way the sexes relate to one another and would like it to change.

                We need you to stop smearing all feminists with the TERF brush though. Most of us aren't anything like that, and the most thoughtful of us actually make it a point to oppose them in print and online for the harm they do and for the fallacious arguments they use. I would wager well over 90% of feminists are trans-inclusive.

                --
                I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                • (Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Thursday August 10 2017, @03:37PM (1 child)

                  by kurenai.tsubasa (5227) on Thursday August 10 2017, @03:37PM (#551680) Journal

                  When will all these good feminists speak louder than the cacophonous minority of bad feminists?

                  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday August 10 2017, @09:49PM

                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 10 2017, @09:49PM (#551894) Journal

                    Never, because assholes are inherently louder than decent people. Westboro Baptist Church is a tiny proportion of Christianity, not even statistical sampling noise, but more people know of them than of the thousands of churches who do charitable work.

                    It's on you to understand this.

                    --
                    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday August 10 2017, @02:09AM

                by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 10 2017, @02:09AM (#551414) Homepage

                Authoritarian followers occur at both extremes of the so-called political spectrum.
                I prefer moderation in all things, even moderation in moderation.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Wednesday August 09 2017, @08:12AM

          by FatPhil (863) <reversethis-{if.fdsa} {ta} {tnelyos-cp}> on Wednesday August 09 2017, @08:12AM (#551009) Homepage
          Explain to me how blacks or hispanics have a different level of testosterone while developing in the womb?

          You sound as if you've not read the entirity of the manifesto.

          Stop trying to reword his argument into a straw man - which bit of his argument do you think is factually incorrect?
          --
          Life is a precious commodity. A wise investor would get rid of it when it has the highest value.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @08:19AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @08:19AM (#551013)

          That thought experiment was stupid. If the data still supported the thesis after changing 'women' to 'race of your choice' then I'd be fine with it. But it doesn't because he was talking nature not nurture and statistical trend not all women and certainly all women currently in the field.

          Try this though experiment, in the genetically engineered salmon article, replace the word salmon with.... yup just stupid.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @09:13AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @09:13AM (#551030)

            Try this though experiment, in the genetically engineered salmon article, replace the word salmon with.... yup just stupid.

            I was going to say, thought experiments only work when there is some thinking going on. Conservative dogma is no substitute.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 09 2017, @04:04PM (2 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 09 2017, @04:04PM (#551175) Journal

          I also call bullshit. Despite decades of attempts to do so, progressives have failed to hide or negate all the evidence that women and men are DIFFERENT. Little girl children seldom act like little boy children, and vice versa. The jails and prisons are filled with males, and few women see the inside of either one, except in visiting rooms. There are a lot of reasons for that, and those reasons are not limited to cultural pressure.

          Many of the supposed metrics that attempt to show differences between black and white, Hispanic and Asian, or whatever, are made up, bogus, cultural things. The differences between males and females cross all barriers, cultureal, ethnic, historical, religious, class, or any other barrier you wish to consider.

          If 1/4, or 1/2, or even 3/4 of the population pretends that there is no difference between men and women, that doesn't mean I have to poke my own eyes out so that I can be as blind as they are.

          --
          #eatyourliver #WalkAway #CTRLLeft
          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday August 10 2017, @10:03PM (1 child)

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 10 2017, @10:03PM (#551901) Journal

            Entirely correct. And it doesn't seem to occur to the ones who insist gender is entirely social and malleable that they're not only barking up the wrong tree, but hurting those they claim to help.

            I would wager their fear is something like "People are going to abuse the science to attempt to *force* $GROUP into $ROLE." And this is a legitimate fear, as proven time and time again by everything from eugenics to "race realism" to the questionable psychology of the 19th century (Freud etc.) has shown.

            But lies never were beaten with worse lies. What we need here is 1) acknowledgement that these differences exist, and 2) realization that, especially in the modern world, they don't mean as much as they did before. The problem is that most people are falling into the ought-from-is trap, that is, thinking that "Women are in general less spatially intelligent than men, THEREFORE, women can't into math hurr hurr hurr."

            There are definitely physical differences between the sexes and the genders. I suspect very strongly I've got a somewhat masculinized brain, which would explain the interest in computers, lots of active voice during typing and speech, a tendency to want to fix problems rather than discuss them, and so forth. Denying reality, no matter how noble the aim, is only going to cause trouble long-term.

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
            • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Friday August 11 2017, @12:39AM

              by kaszz (4211) on Friday August 11 2017, @12:39AM (#551978) Journal

              Even if women are in general less spatially intelligent than men it doesn't mean every women is such. Thus there are women in positions that need spatial intelligence, just not that many.

              Seems the public at large just doesn't grasp that general isn't equal to everyone.
              But it might be, it's just very unlikely ;)

        • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday August 10 2017, @04:38AM

          by hemocyanin (186) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 10 2017, @04:38AM (#551462)

          The problem is that he cited no research about race, just about different preferences women and men have. During this kerfluffle I've been reading a number of things and seems not so much to be a male/female issue, as a testosterone issue during gestation and thereafter. It's like the differing chemicals running through the brains of most men and women, are programming us to behave and desire differently. I have no expertise in this area so I can't talk with any authority, but it is interesting reading (and viewing, e.g., the documentary on Norway, the most equal country, with ever widening gender gaps in employment types).

          Anyway, it's pretty obvious that in today's society, that looking into differences between the sexes is forbidden (Damore). As is objecting to certain kinds of racism (Bret Weinstein), as is merely suggesting working with natural opponents on those issues for which there is agreement (Caitlin Johnstone).

          And so you know, I'm a pinko Green -- I just see the attacks on freedom of thought from the left, aside from being astonishingly ferocious and Godwinesque, as being extremely misguided and dangerous. Kind of like how Democrats never complained while Obama pushed executive authority, as if it never occurred to them that a Cheney type or a Trump could wield that same power. Forcing people to shut up and toe the line is beyond stupid no matter what side of things you are on, because inevitably, there will be a day when it is YOU being repressed.

  • (Score: 2, Informative) by krishnoid on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:39PM (12 children)

    by krishnoid (1156) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:39PM (#550750)

    A couple things came to mind:

    • He's a professional software engineer. Maybe a ten-page opinion piece on a Google internal forum wasn't the best place to try his hand at amateur (?) contemporary social anthropology?
    • This is *Google*, of all places. Regardless of opinions, how does the (vast) *data* available to them statistically compare to some/any of the points in that document?

    Finally, I'll leave this here [theuncool.com] for you to peruse at your convenience. It's very rambly, but I think it worked out ok for Jerry McGuire in the end.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:47PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:47PM (#550756)

      Most reporters left out that fact.

    • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:05PM (8 children)

      by jmorris (4844) <{jmorris} {at} {beau.org}> on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:05PM (#550770)

      He's a professional software engineer.

      Maybe you shouldn't pontificate on things you don't actually know anything about. Guy is a Harvard Biology PhD, not a random software engineer. He was in fact discussing subjects within his wheelhouse. Remember, Google has been sucking in the best and brightest from a LOT of fields for years, doing who knows what sort of Evil Google Things. I'm still rooting for him having gobs of those Evil Secrets safely uploaded to WikiLeaks. Google hasn't had many disgruntled ex-employees up until now so their secrets have stayed a lot more secret than, for a random example, the U.S. government.

      #GoogleLeaks. Lets all root for it to happen. In Kek's name we ask this! For great lulz!

      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:32PM

        by kaszz (4211) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:32PM (#550799) Journal

        Maybe you are right that the time is ripe for some serious secrets to be spilled from google due to people being disgruntled. They could of course attack people they know about like in this case. But there's always the uncertainty of people inside watching this play out and deciding to play hard wrecking ball from the inside.

      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:26PM

        by takyon (881) Subscriber Badge <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:26PM (#550820) Journal

        I'm still rooting for him having gobs of those Evil Secrets safely uploaded to WikiLeaks.

        If he is the only one who leaks, he would be really easy to sue by GOOG.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 5, Informative) by aristarchus on Wednesday August 09 2017, @02:15AM (4 children)

        by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @02:15AM (#550886) Journal

        He's a professional software engineer.

        Maybe you shouldn't pontificate on things you don't actually know anything about. Guy is a Harvard Biology PhD,

        Turns out he is not. 28 years old, worked for google since 2013? PhD at 24? Except Harvard says he does not hold a Doctorate from them. What else is he lying about?

        Maybe, jmorris, you should not pontificate on things you know nothing about?

        --
        #Free{nick}_NOW!!!
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @02:56AM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @02:56AM (#550899)

          A bit of extra sauce on the resume never hurts.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @03:18AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @03:18AM (#550913)

            Except when it is academic fraud. I know of persons who did not complete a PhD, and awarded themselves a consolation MA, but unfortunately from an institution that did not have a MA in the discipline. Did not end well. But to just grant yourself a PhD, from Harvard? Being a sexist conservative seems to be the least of this guy's problems.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @04:51AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @04:51AM (#550951)

              A bit of extra sauce on the resume never hurts.

              Sorry, that was meant tongue-in-cheek.

              • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday August 09 2017, @06:15AM

                by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @06:15AM (#550970) Journal

                Yeah, caught it. But it does raise the question of the memo author's bona fides, if you know what I mean.

                --
                #Free{nick}_NOW!!!
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:15PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:15PM (#551253)

        really? such a low level writing for that title

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:28PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:28PM (#550797)

      > Google internal forum

      devoted strictly to business? then he fscked up.

      devoted to strengthen the workforce identity or some other bullshit? then he was entitled to complain. Every other category complains, and, THE EBIL PRIVILEGED WHITE MEN THAT ACTUALLY RULE THE WORLD lets them complain, apparently.

      An appropriate HR response: "we don't agree with his conclusions so we won't act on his complaints, he is a valuable worker* so we hope his opinions won't cause problems when interacting with colleagues"...
      *) if not they would have fired him already and HR will never admit being wrong.

      So why did they go nuclear? fear of feminazis? a test to see how many boycott google over this? sexist drama to distract us from something else?

      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:05AM

        by kaszz (4211) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:05AM (#550863) Journal

        > Google internal forum

        devoted strictly to business? then he fscked up.

        The problem is that it is business and indeed career related if you look inside the memo under the heading "The Harm of Google’s biases":

        Programs, mentoring, and classes only for people with a certain gender or race

        Reconsidering any set of people if it’s not “diverse” enough, but not showing that same scrutiny in the reverse direction (clear confirmation bias)

        These practices are based on false assumptions generated by our biases and can actually increase race and gender tensions. We’re told by senior leadership that what we’re doing is both the morally and economically correct thing to do, but without evidence this is just veiled left ideology [7] that can irreparably harm Google.

        Now suppose you are going to handle a new big mapping project but can't get access to a program on Geographic information systems (GIS) because you have the wrong sex, race whatever. Then there will be a problem. Smart people can in many cases workaround stuff like that but it's not conducive to productive results.

        Which is kind of the core of this. Google has taken on a culture and cadre of political commissars that are counterproductive. And it will only be a question of time before profits and competence leave the house. Firing this employee and the subsequent uproar in itself will likely not be problematic in the short term. But it's a sign that the direction is bad and now it's out in the open. The choice is between Google fixing this or the market fixing Google. It also serves as a signal post for others that Google is now damaged goods and no longer a top spot.

        So why did they go nuclear?

        Because this new ideology whatever you want to call it is looking into controlling the thought of people and to grab power. There's a lot of people that just can't handle that some people think differently. So they can't have heretics or dissent nor tolerate it. This has been going on at least since 1987. It just has gotten big enough now to make it a issue for a lot of people because of the spread.
        It's the same human deficiencies displayed at the Salem witch trials in 1692 all over again in a different shape.

        A simpler explanation is that toxic people has been allowed in.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by jmorris on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:49PM (14 children)

    by jmorris (4844) <{jmorris} {at} {beau.org}> on Tuesday August 08 2017, @08:49PM (#550758)

    Let the record show that I called his firing on Monday. I said he would either be locked out of the building and his crap in a box at the security desk or they would let him in so they could all point and shriek at him for a good cathartic release culminating in a very public firing. Option 2 it was. Not a hard prediction to make either, the one thing SJWs can't allow is dissent. Fear is their most potent weapon and now the stench of it will be filling the corridors of the GooglePlex for months as they increase the demands. Simply remaining quiet and trying to work won't be good enough, everyone will be expected to make public proclamations of undying support for the Diversity and Inclusion inititives and anyone insufficiently enthusiastic will be scheduled for "struggle sessions." Because they know a non-trivial number of employees voted anonymously on the poll attached to the memo and until they have all been tracked down and publicly humiliated the incident can't be considered closed. Good news for everyone in tech who isn't named Google.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:00PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:00PM (#550765)

      Also, the record already shows that not only did people call it on Monday, but some people called for it even earlier than that.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by aristarchus on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:12PM (9 children)

      by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:12PM (#550773) Journal

      I can only hope that more sexist conservatives will be encouraged to write memorandum like this expressing the depths of their discontent in the modern world. It is good to know who they are, and what they believe. So if you are one of these, please come out of the closet, make your views known to all and sundry. You will feel better for it!!

      --
      #Free{nick}_NOW!!!
      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:17PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:17PM (#550776)

        Not only is the Universe objectively sexist, but there's also nothing more sexist than putting resources behind the promotion of a particular sex.

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Justin Case on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:19PM (7 children)

        by Justin Case (4239) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:19PM (#550777) Journal

        If you'd read his memo, you'd know that he was calling out Google's blatantly sexist policies such as offering training sessions only to members of favored groups.

        • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:07PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:07PM (#550789)

          He did it as diplomatically and scientifically as possible, even if his work wasn't perfect, and anyone who ACTUALLY READ AND UNDERSTOOD IT, meaning nobody at google who was denigrating to him over it (since their very comments indicated they didn't understand either his terminology, nor his references, despite both being pushed under formal scientific essay's rigor.)

          The scientists in related fields/who were quoted even said while they had some complaints about its method of discussion that most of the facts were incontrovertible at this time.

          • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @06:38AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @06:38AM (#550977)

            AC, sorry to break it to you, but you are full of shit. The science proves no such thing. And yes, we understood it. Poor conservatives, the ground has shifted under their feet, and they cling to their guns and religion. But of course, you can't do either of those, and work for Google, now, could you?

        • (Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Wednesday August 09 2017, @06:56AM (4 children)

          by cubancigar11 (330) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 09 2017, @06:56AM (#550983) Homepage Journal

          Remember some words that can help you navigate yourself to safety: "backlash", "kitchen", "60s", "40s", "20s", "sexist", "misogynist". The moment you encounter any of these words from someone who you are engaging in a argument, know that argument is over and whatever you say is not going to be heard. Acknowledge that the debate has moved away from your arguments and into the favourable territory of public shaming. If you understand feminism, let me put it you in feminist speak: logic is masculine, emotion is feminine, the debate has moved from toxic masculine power structure to a feminist structure and no normal person can say that it is bad - only woman haters will say feminism is bad - and now if you want to fight and win, you have to do it in a feminist structure. But remember, you will be constantly reminded that you have to man-up.

          In my humble experience it is best to move-on, as when the discourse is all about public shaming, debate can only be won by changing the public.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:20AM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:20AM (#550989)

            cubancigar42, you are a pickerel. There, it had to be said. Now deal with it. Pickerel. Logic is feminine, insane persecution complexes are masculine. Men are all about shaming, belittling, trash-talking, rolling coal, buggery and tea-bagging. Women are, well women are people and not little boys. I hope you are suitably asshamed. If not, I can drive my Mustang past your house, just to make you feel weak.

            • (Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:50AM (2 children)

              by cubancigar11 (330) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 09 2017, @07:50AM (#550999) Homepage Journal

              I do identify as a pickerel. How did you know? Did you see my Facebook profile?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @08:33AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 09 2017, @08:33AM (#551019)

                It was the simularity of a pickerel to a cigar. Dead giveaway, male inferiority displacement complex. Freud wrote quite a lot about this. But he also said, "Sometimes a pickerel is not a cigar." So there is that.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Bot on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:31PM

      by Bot (3902) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:31PM (#550798)

      > Because they know a non-trivial number of employees voted anonymously on the poll attached to the memo

      o look a honeypot

    • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:54PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:54PM (#550832)

      We reviewed the record and it seems the tally is 189 verified instances of jmorris bullshit being called out, and 3 instances of jmorris being vindicated. The record also indicates that jmorris only acknowledged his vindications and couldn't find enough of his spine to admit when he is wrong.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by inertnet on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:04PM

    by inertnet (4071) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:04PM (#550768)

    My first thought was: that's an interesting way for an empire to start failing before eventually falling apart.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by looorg on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:20PM (16 children)

    by looorg (578) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:20PM (#550778)

    Guess one shouldn't be all to surprised at the outcome, since the twitter-outrage-culture of the today demand that all the heretics must burn! There was a few interesting perspectives on it today tho.

    The memo got it's own webpage (0), where it actually contains all the notes and links compared to most other news stories about it that just seem to conclude that he hates women and is a horrible horrible person.

    A few actual scientists in various fields of psychology got together and had a bit of a read and concluded that the science part of the memo all checked out with current understandings in the field (1), this wasn't really all that much of a surprise. One of them wrote a somewhat more lengthy piece about it for the Globe and Mail (2).

    So he seems to have had a pretty solid science argument. Which I guess is why the Google headhunters and CEO cut him down for violating their code of conduct instead, as Pichai put it “violate our Code of Conduct and cross the line by advancing harmful gender stereotypes in our workplace.”. So I guess Google is all about the feelings and anti-science these days. I wonder if this will make future potential recruits take a moment to think about if they want to work in the Goolag or not, since it's quite clear by now that to work there you need to agree with their ideological views or just learn to keep your mouth shut forever. Which I guess wouldn't make them all that different from most other places.

    I wonder if the employees that outed Damore and cried about it also violated some code of conduct to or are they all going to be safe? There was clearly some less then pleasant tweets and comments made about him. They seem to have come a long way from "Don't be evil", or they spent a lot of time redefining evil.

    The code of conduct (3) seems to quite clearly state that "Employment here is based solely upon individual merit and qualifications directly related to professional competence.". So why would they need to have diversity hires? Unless being of a certain color or gender is now a form of qualification or merit. "Google prohibits discrimination, harassment and bullying in any form – verbal, physical, or visual", so the people that outed Damore should all be disciplined or have their employments terminated to. Interesting Google also discriminates against Cats - animal racism? Are not all the animal equal!? Is Google like Animal Farm? Clearly they are on so many levels. Interesting to note they updated the CoC on August 7th. Did they add or remove something?

    And remember… don’t be evil, and if you see something that you think isn’t right – speak up!

    ... and your employment will be terminated.

    (0) http://diversitymemo.com/ [diversitymemo.com]
    (1) https://archive.is/z6xxP#selection-347.36-347.46 [archive.is]
    (2) https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/no-the-google-manifesto-isnt-sexist-or-anti-diversity-its-science/article35903359/ [theglobeandmail.com]
    (3) https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html [abc.xyz]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:44PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @09:44PM (#550783)

      These days, it's unfashionable to have a lengthy foretext—readers lose interest at the thought of so much verbiage rolling off their tongues.

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:19PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:19PM (#550794)

        These days, it's unfashionable to have a lengthy foretext

        So... all CoC's should be circumcised?

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday August 09 2017, @04:14AM

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 09 2017, @04:14AM (#550941) Journal

          Circum*scribed* surely...eek.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:15PM (7 children)

      by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:15PM (#550791) Homepage Journal

      There was a time I wanted to work for Google in the worst way. I've had several interviews but always failed because my degree is not in computer science, so I'm weak in algorithm design.

      I decided a while back that I don't want to work for them because Google forgot all about "don't be evil".

      --
      "Every time a bulbous dickhead helps the employers by running a job board for them, employers win." -- AC
      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:02PM (4 children)

        by kaszz (4211) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:02PM (#550813) Journal

        Yeah, this will initiate the disinvestment in Google or any other organization that are a PC lapdog. Seems like they don't understand that they have seriously shoot themselves in the foot and global observers will deliver the bullet(s).

        Any suggestions to other employers that provide college type environment, free food, washing machines, massage etc on campus? and interesting challenges? Good salary doesn't hurt .. ;)

        • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:42PM (3 children)

          by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:42PM (#550826) Homepage Journal

          the whole office looks just like a bomb went off in a computer factory.

          --
          "Every time a bulbous dickhead helps the employers by running a job board for them, employers win." -- AC
          • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday August 09 2017, @12:29AM (2 children)

            by kaszz (4211) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @12:29AM (#550849) Journal

            Google offices are that chaotic?

            • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Wednesday August 09 2017, @12:39AM (1 child)

              by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Wednesday August 09 2017, @12:39AM (#550854) Homepage Journal

              There are grocery store-style refrigerators here and there which are kept stocked.

              The lunchrooms have no cash registers - lunch is free of charge for employees. The food is quite good, and I like to eat good food so for a long time I wanted to work there just for the lunches I'd get.

              Here in Beaverton Oregon, I buy a chili and iced tea from Wendy's for $4.28.

              But it least my clients aren't evil.

              --
              "Every time a bulbous dickhead helps the employers by running a job board for them, employers win." -- AC
              • (Score: 3, Touché) by kaszz on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:13AM

                by kaszz (4211) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @01:13AM (#550867) Journal

                You have to arrange so you get free lunches and get freedom from clients ;-)

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:09PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:09PM (#550816)

        Same here, though not for quite the same reason.

        I interviewed with them a bunch of times, for different jobs, and every single time they took so incredibly long that I was already hired by the time they were trying to organise round however-many.

        I finally called them and told them to stop calling me.

        Then, months later, they tried again. I had to explain to their poor HR drone (I mean, come on, not HER fault their HR system sniffs glue) that I was not accepting any job from Google because I wasn't willing to put up with the pain of their hiring process even if I weren't employed at the time (which I was). She was a little incredulous, and started to talk about their bennies, and I told her I'd only consider it as a high dollar independent contractor - which they wouldn't do, so don't bother calling.

        • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:58PM

          by kaszz (4211) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:58PM (#550834) Journal

          Have an number identifier phone answering machine that if google calls redirects them to a message that tells them this number is no longer available. BUT.. you will happily accept their calls on your 900-premium-rate telephone number. Where you will discuss the pros and cons of (maybe) working at google for hours..

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:17PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 08 2017, @10:17PM (#550792)

      The code of conduct (3) seems to quite clearly state that "Employment here is based solely upon individual merit and qualifications directly related to professional competence.". So why would they need to have diversity hires? Unless being of a certain color or gender is now a form of qualification or merit. "Google prohibits discrimination, harassment and bullying in any form – verbal, physical, or visual", so the people that outed Damore should all be disciplined or have their employments terminated too.

      Exactly, their VP of diversity is obviously in breach of the CoC too. Job title should be changed to "VP of meritocracy" instead. <sarcasm>Feminists always end up being fucked by CoC's in the end.</sarcasm>

      A liberal being fired for speaking up in favour of diversity but against "affirmative action" or discrimination in the name of anti-discrimination. The only way to win against SJW's is to insist on a meritocracy based upon individual merit, exactly the case Damore was making.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by kaszz on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:52PM (3 children)

      by kaszz (4211) on Tuesday August 08 2017, @11:52PM (#550829) Journal

      Quick TD;LR: (I found this story a bit confusing when I first read about it)
        * A Google employee writes a politically incorrect but scientifically correct posting (0) on a internal Google message board.
        * Google engineer: James Damore - Writes memo scientifically analyzing differences between people and career outcome with remedy recommendations.
        * CEO: Sundar Pichai - sends out a company wide note that portions of the memo violate the code of conduct.
        * New vice president for diversity, integrity and governance: Danielle Brown - sends a statement to staff condemning James.

      So the motto:
        a) Don't be evil .. updated ^H^H Do the right thing [9to5google.com]
        b) Except when there is a profit to be made. Short for moaahr moooney.
        c) Except for profit when government demands exception to do more spying.
        d) Except for money and except for government spying when political commissar [wikipedia.org] demands exception to deliver "special treatment" to heretics.
        e) If you think anything, then let our political commissars think for you.

      Reference list (by looorg):
        (0) Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber [diversitymemo.com] original [diversitymemo.com] Backup: https://archive.is/H3fK8 [archive.is]
        (1) The Google Memo: Four Scientists Respond [quillette.com] ; Lee Jussim is a professor of social psychology ; David P Schmitt Professor Ph.D. in personality psychology ; Geoffrey Miller professor in evolutionary psychology ; Debra W Soh a PhD in sexual neuroscience ; Backup: https://archive.is/z6xxP [archive.is]
        (2) No, the Google manifesto isn’t sexist or anti-diversity. It’s science [theglobeandmail.com] written by Debra Soh with a PhD in sexual neuroscience. Backup: https://archive.is/fEckf [archive.is]
        (3) Google Code of Conduct [abc.xyz] Backup: https://archive.is/RPOtr [archive.is] archive.org versions [archive.org]

      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday August 09 2017, @12:17AM

        by kaszz (4211) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @12:17AM (#550843) Journal

        Btw, I can recommend anyone to read the James memo [diversitymemo.com]. It has some pretty good analyze and suggestions for remedy.

        Is Google ready for the FuckedCompany list? ;^>

      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday August 09 2017, @08:36AM (1 child)

        by FatPhil (863) <reversethis-{if.fdsa} {ta} {tnelyos-cp}> on Wednesday August 09 2017, @08:36AM (#551020) Homepage
        I think we've found the smoking gun... Google are clearly racist to the core:

        """
        Dog Policy

        Google’s affection for our canine friends is an integral facet of our corporate culture. We like cats, but we’re a dog company, so as a general rule we feel cats visiting our offices would be fairly stressed out. For more on this, see our Dog Policy.
        """
        --
        Life is a precious commodity. A wise investor would get rid of it when it has the highest value.
        • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday August 09 2017, @05:14PM

          by kaszz (4211) on Wednesday August 09 2017, @05:14PM (#551196) Journal

          Time to bring the cat to work. Just to annoy them.. ;)

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