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posted by martyb on Monday August 14 2017, @10:51PM   Printer-friendly
from the thugs-and-their-thug-accomplices dept.

We've had multiple submissions on the confrontation in Charlottesville, Virginia between white supremacists and counter-protesters. We lead off with a submission about the altercation which culminated with a car driven into a crowd which left 1 person dead and 19 injured. Then we continue with GoDaddy informing dailystormer.com — a white supremacist web site which called for the rally — that they had 24 hours to find another registrar for their site. They signed up with Google's domain registration service. Now there are reports that Google, too, has dropped the registration.

This story could very well cause a lot of heat, but it is my hope we can look beyond the details of this particular situation and focus discussion on the overriding questions of freedom of speech/publication raised by one of the submitters and the implications it may lead to. This saying comes to mind: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Terrorism in Charlottesville: 1 Dead, 19 Injured

ProPublica reports:

Police Stood By As Mayhem Mounted in Charlottesville, Virginia

At about 10 a.m. [August 12], at one of countless such confrontations, an angry mob of white supremacists formed a battle line across from a group of counter-protesters, many of them older and gray-haired, who had gathered near a church parking lot. On command from their leader, the young men charged and pummeled their ideological foes with abandon. One woman was hurled to the pavement, and the blood from her bruised head was instantly visible.

Standing nearby, an assortment of Virginia State Police troopers and Charlottesville police wearing protective gear watched silently from behind an array of metal barricades--and did nothing.

[...] the white supremacists who flooded into the city's Emancipation Park--a statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee sits in the center of the park--had spent months openly planning for war. The Daily Stormer, a popular neo-Nazi website, encouraged rally attendees to bring shields, pepper spray, and fascist flags and flagpoles. A prominent racist podcast told its listeners to come carrying guns.

[...] the white supremacists who showed up in Charlottesville did indeed come prepared for violence. Many wore helmets and carried clubs, medieval-looking round wooden shields, and rectangular plexiglass shields, similar to those used by riot police.

[...] The police did little to stop the bloodshed. Several times, a group of assault-rifle-toting militia members from New York State, wearing body armor and desert camo, played a more active role in breaking up fights.

[...] The skirmishes culminated in what appears to have been an act of domestic terrorism, with a driver ramming his car into a crowd of anti-racist activists on a busy downtown street, killing one and injuring 19 according to the latest information from city officials. Charlottesville authorities tonight reported that a 20-year-old Ohio man had been arrested and had been charged with murder.

[...] A good strategy, [said Miriam Krinsky, a former federal prosecutor who has worked on police reform efforts in Los Angeles], is to make clashes less likely by separating the two sides physically, with officers forming a barrier between them. "Create a human barrier so the flash points are reduced as quickly as possible."

GoDaddy Stomps 'Daily Stormer' -- Site Moves to Google

The Washington Post reports GoDaddy bans neo-Nazi site Daily Stormer for disparaging woman killed at Charlottesville rally:

After months of criticism that GoDaddy was providing a platform for hate speech, the Web hosting company announced late Sunday that it will no longer house the Daily Stormer, a neo-Nazi website that promotes white supremacist and white nationalist ideas.

[...] We informed The Daily Stormer that they have 24 hours to move the domain to another provider, as they have violated our terms of service.

— GoDaddy (@GoDaddy) August 14, 2017

[...] In the Daily Stormer post[1], [Andrew] Angelin characterized [victim Heather] Heyer as dying in a "road rage incident." He said she was a "drain on society" and disparaged her appearance. "Most people are glad she is dead," he wrote.

"@GoDaddy you host The Daily Stormer — they posted this on their site," Twitter user Amy Siskind said in an appeal to the Web hosting company. "Please retweet if you think this hate should be taken down & banned."

[...] GoDaddy has previously said that the content, however "tasteless" and "ignorant," is protected by the First Amendment. The company told the Daily Beast in July that a Daily Stormer article threatening to "track down" the family members of CNN staffers did not violate Domains by Proxy's terms of service.

[1] https://www.dailystormer.com/heather-heyer-woman-killed-in-road-rage-incident-was-a-fat-childless-32-year-old-slut/

After the incidents in Charlottesville it seems GoDaddy have decided, one can gather from and after a massive amount of pressure, to no longer provide Domain name access to the Daily Stormer. While a private company is free to do whatever they like, I wonder if there will or might be further implications. I think the interesting question here isn't what happened in Charlottesville or what kind of stories they provide over at the Daily Stormer -- they might be or are a complete shitfest filled with neo-nazi-news for all I know. The interesting aspect is if companies should now monitor their customers, which it seems the Daily Stormer has been one for years, and ban or block customers that no longer align with company beliefs or that other customers find offensive. It seems the Daily Stormer has previously posted "tasteless" and "ignorant" stories that one can only assume have not aligned with GoDaddy policy or Terms of Service, but this one was somehow over the line and the straw that broke the camel's back?

I'm fairly sure the Daily Stormer won't be knocked offline or anything, there will always be someone willing to host them somewhere. So today they try to knock a neo-nazi site offline, I doubt many people will lose any sleep over that, but who is going to be next? Is this part of the ramping up of the current online-twitter-socialweb-culture? Is there a slippery slope here?

Google Domains, GoDaddy blacklist white supremacist site Daily Stormer

Ars Technica is reporting that Google Domains and GoDaddy have blacklisted white supremacist site Daily Stormer:

The article prompted a response from the site's domain registrar, GoDaddy. "We informed The Daily Stormer that they have 24 hours to move the domain to another provider, as they have violated our terms of service," GoDaddy wrote in a tweet late Sunday night.

On Monday, the Daily Stormer switched its registration to Google's domain service. Within hours, Google announced a cancellation of its own. "We are cancelling Daily Stormer's registration with Google Domains for violating our terms of service," the company wrote in an statement emailed to Ars.

[...] A lot of outlets covering this controversy described GoDaddy, somewhat misleadingly, as the Daily Stormer's hosting provider. But GoDaddy wasn't storing or distributing the content on the Daily Stormer website. It was the Daily Stormer's registrar, which is the company that handles registration of "dailystormer.com" in the domain name system, the global database that connects domain names like "arstechnica.com" to numeric IP addresses.

GoDaddy has faced pressure for months from anti-racist groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League to drop the Daily Stormer as a customer. But until this weekend, GoDaddy resisted that pressure.

"GoDaddy doesn't host The Daily Stormer's content on its servers," the investigative site Reveal reported in May. "Because it provides only the domain name, the company says it has a higher standard for terminating service."

"We need to evaluate what level of effect we can actually have on the abuse that's actually going on," said Ben Butler, director of GoDaddy's digital crimes unit, in a May interview with Reveal. "As a domain name registrar, if we take the domain name down, that domain name stops working. But the content is still out there, live on a server connected to the Internet that can be reached via an IP address or forwarded from another domain name. The actual content is not something we can touch by turning on or off the domain name service."

But GoDaddy abruptly changed its stance on Sunday evening. What changed GoDaddy's mind? In a statement to Techcrunch, GoDaddy said: "given this latest article comes on the immediate heels of a violent act, we believe this type of article could incite additional violence, which violates our terms of service."

Reading GoDaddy's terms of service, this seems to support their stance that they could suspend the domain registration:

9. RESTRICTION OF SERVICES; RIGHT OF REFUSAL

[...] You agree that GoDaddy, in its sole discretion and without liability to you, may refuse to accept the registration of any domain name. GoDaddy also may in its sole discretion and without liability to you delete the registration of any domain name during the first thirty (30) days after registration has taken place. GoDaddy may also cancel the registration of a domain name, after thirty (30) days, if that name is being used, as determined by GoDaddy in its sole discretion, in association with spam or morally objectionable activities. Morally objectionable activities will include, but not be limited to:

  • Activities prohibited by the laws of the United States and/or foreign territories in which you conduct business;
  • Activities designed to encourage unlawful behavior by others, such as hate crimes, terrorism and child pornography; and
  • Activities designed to harm or use unethically minors in any way.

As of the time of this being written, it appears that the Daily Stormer domain (dailystormer.com) is still being hosted by Google:

Domain Name: dailystormer.com
Registry Domain ID: 1787753602_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.google.com
Registrar URL: https://domains.google.com
Updated Date: 2017-08-14T14:51:45Z
Creation Date: 2013-03-20T22:43:18Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2020-03-20T22:43:18Z
Registrar: Google Inc.
Registrar IANA ID: 895
Registrar Abuse Contact Email:
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.8772376466
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 14 2017, @10:54PM (25 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 14 2017, @10:54PM (#553874)

    it just make them look like the idiots they are

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 14 2017, @10:56PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 14 2017, @10:56PM (#553876)

      "I will defend to the death of an innocent woman your right to speak." Game over, Nazis!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:16AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:16AM (#554091)

        All I have to do to shut you and all your pals up is dress up like you and and kill one of your footsoldier enemies?

        Hm.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @08:46AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @08:46AM (#554171)

          We already have you in our sights, Rambo!

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by bob_super on Monday August 14 2017, @11:55PM (21 children)

      by bob_super (1357) on Monday August 14 2017, @11:55PM (#553905)

      I believe that there is already ample record on Nazi ideology.
      The only benefit of hearing it again, is to be sure those new idiots actually realize the ideas, ideals, and past actions of the assholes they so vehemently want to be the descendants of.

      Don't they have veteran grandpas to hit them across the head?

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by hemocyanin on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:05AM (19 children)

        by hemocyanin (186) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:05AM (#553979)

        You don't have to hear it again. But once it becomes so easy to silence assholes like this, it will become easier to silence any dissent, even that which is well reasoned and without violent under/overtones.

        https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/while-everyone-frets-about-state-censorship-corporate-censorship-tightens-the-noose-c357e3bdd95d [medium.com]

        ... Americans would flip out if their government ever started overtly censoring the First Amendment rights of any group, and then you’d have unrest throughout the nation with a risk of full-scale revolution from a large and heavily-armed populace. Much easier and more effective to use the private corporations that these same plutocrats own to censor speech which threatens their rule instead.

        In an article titled “Google Censors Block Access to CounterPunch and Other Progressive Sites,” CounterPunch reports that lefty outlets like itself and World Socialist Website have seen immense decreases in Google traffic due to the search engine’s new policies, as has the nonpartisan WikiLeaks. ...

        In a corporatist oligarchy, corporate censorship is government censorship, since corporate power is not separated in any meaningful way from government power. An extensive 2014 study by Princeton University showed that ordinary Americans have no influence whatsoever over the way their government behaves, but the wealthy have a great deal of influence due to legalized bribery in the form of corporate lobbying and campaign donations. The owners of gargantuan multinational corporations and banks dictate how Official Washington behaves, and if they own large chunks of media they help control the way mainstream America thinks and votes as well.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:56AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:56AM (#554024)

          There's a pending submission [soylentnews.org] about that. It's been pending since Wednesday.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Tuesday August 15 2017, @03:19AM (1 child)

            by hemocyanin (186) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 15 2017, @03:19AM (#554062)

            I have noticed that the Google News feed has degraded so much, that it is basically just the Washington Post RSS feed (I have the WAPO in my /etc/hosts).

            I'm in the market for new news aggregator to check in on for my news, because Google's has turned to absolute crap.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:23AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:23AM (#554093)

              Why? Isn't soylentnews.org... mmm... phantastic?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @07:27AM (8 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @07:27AM (#554150)

          It has not been easy, and they're still spewing murder and death threats and venom.

          STFU, go outside, and punch a white supremacist. Make them afraid to speak. They've initiated the violence, and you have a duty to defend yourself. The human rights that they're trying to remove from selected subgroups? If neonazis can remove their human rights, they can remove your human rights.

          • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:44AM (7 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:44AM (#554184)

            They've initiated the violence, and you have a duty to defend yourself.

            Antifa initiated the violence. That is what they do and they'll tell you themselves (1 [cnn.com] 2 [bbc.com])

            • (Score: 3, Disagree) by Immerman on Tuesday August 15 2017, @03:37PM (6 children)

              by Immerman (3985) on Tuesday August 15 2017, @03:37PM (#554285)

              As soon as anyone starts voicing Nazi rhetoric, the violence has already begun.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:01PM (5 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:01PM (#554433)

                So, you say words are cause for violence. Keep that in mind when you open your mouth to say 'hi' and get a punch in the face. Totally justified violence, according to you.

                • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Wednesday August 16 2017, @02:37AM (4 children)

                  by Immerman (3985) on Wednesday August 16 2017, @02:37AM (#554530)

                  Just words? No.

                  Publicly allying yourself with Nazis? Yes. The minute someone allies themselves with those specific ideals, they are declaring themselves an existential threat to anyone who doesn't fit their arbitrary ideals, and should be treated as such. Especially in the face of a president and administration that seems all too eager to feed that mentality for his own ends.

                  We've seen where this road leads, and many wondered how the Nazi's ever managed to take over Germany. Well this is how it started. We cannot let these seeds take root.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 16 2017, @08:52AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 16 2017, @08:52AM (#554615)

                    I repeat: It is OK to punch a Nazi in the face! Some times, that is the only way to get them to wake up! And, if the are swearing loyalty to the enemy (vanquished) of the United States, how is that any different than swearing loyalty to the Caliphate of ISIS? Punch them in the face. It is not "alt-left" violence, it is American patriotism!!

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday August 16 2017, @12:21PM (2 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 16 2017, @12:21PM (#554675) Journal

                    Publicly allying yourself with Nazis? Yes. The minute someone allies themselves with those specific ideals, they are declaring themselves an existential threat to anyone who doesn't fit their arbitrary ideals, and should be treated as such. Especially in the face of a president and administration that seems all too eager to feed that mentality for his own ends.

                    What's existential about that threat? Last I checked a few hundred Nazis were just a threat for property damage.

                    We've seen where this road leads, and many wondered how the Nazi's ever managed to take over Germany. Well this is how it started. We cannot let these seeds take root.

                    Perhaps they ought to look at history and see where the road actually led? While significant parts have been concealed from the public, it's still a fairly obvious trail. A key part that so frequently gets ignored is that Germany's government of the 1920s was imposed by victorious enemies and was part of humiliating and onerous restrictions imposed by those enemies in the notorious Treaty of Versailles. The Weimar Republic had little in the way of credibility as a result.

                    Further, Germany immediately broke the treaty covertly - such as maintaining a secret General Staff which coordinated new technology and strategy development (for example, the blitzkrieg strategy and the military gear necessary to implement the blitzkrieg such as tanks and dive bomber planes) and conducting black ops (one of the spooks, Kurt von Schleicher [wikipedia.org] who apparently was responsible for directing much of this black ops activity, including killing people to hide the violations of the Treaty of Versailles later became the Chancellor of Germany prior to Hitler).

                    Thus, there was massive institutional opposition to the Weimar Republic, from the military and much of the rest of the government. Similarly, there was cultural opposition to the Republic from business leaders and many of the general public (the latter who were highly receptive to the Nazis populist message that they would make Germany great again).

                    This opposition finally found a way to destroy the republic in 1932 with the combination of President Hindenburg and several collaborating Chancellors. First, they took over [wikipedia.org] the Free State of Prussia in 1932 under Chancellor Franz von Papen. When he proved too unpopular to be the strong leader that these anti-republic forces wanted, von Schleicher gave it a go. He turned out unsatisfactory as well. By this time (1933), Hitler had grown in popularity to become the obstacle to appointing any more Hindenburg favorites and thus, Hitler was able to contrive his appointment to Chancellor. He proved to be a sufficiently strong leader to destroy the Weimar Republic (in 1934) after Hindenburg's death and then completely take over Germany into his own warped image. And thus, the tool became the master.

                    It wasn't words that enabled Nazis to take over Germany, it was a combination of terrible economic conditions, a fully discredited government, and powerful interests working hard to undermine and overthrow the republic which did so. Hitler was fortunate in that he had enough political power to take over the government and country at this key transition point, but he didn't create any of the conditions that enabled him to do so.

                    Further, for most of the history of the Nazi party prior to their takeover of Germany, they were a persecuted minority. It was this very persecution that popularized them and enabled them. For example, Hitler was a ex-military drunk prior to his "Beer Hall Putsch" (an attempted coup of the Bavarian state government). It was his incredibly flawed trial for treason (and subsequent publishing of his autobiography, Mein Kampf) that catapulted him from a local, moderately influential protestor to a successful populist with a large and growing following. Further, the Nazis routinely fell afoul of libel and hate speech laws in Wiemar Germany. That didn't stop them, but instead provided more support and publicity for their propaganda as a besieged minority working to make Germany great again.

                    Top down state or society suppression of radical views doesn't work (and we see it not working in Europe today). It is far better to engage with superior argument and ideas. And maybe don't make an economic mess like with the span of time since the year 2000 in the US. That would help too.

                    • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Thursday August 17 2017, @05:31PM (1 child)

                      by Immerman (3985) on Thursday August 17 2017, @05:31PM (#555451)

                      One woman was killed just in this instance - they were clearly a pretty damned existential threat to her. And racial violence is everywhere in this country, and getting worse.

                      But yeah, a few isolated Nazi rallies would be of limited danger on their own. But perhaps you missed the part where this sort of thing is becoming increasingly common, while the freaking President, if not openly condoning them in as many words, is clearly in no hurry to condemn them, using language so gently couched that the Nazi, KKK, etc leaders have openly cited it as support for their cause - which he has likewise declined to deny.

                      Meanwhile, while even the Republican Congressfolk have declined to defend his statements, there's also precious little condemnation, of him or the movement, coming from that quarter. I'd say that's pretty F-ing damning right there. Signs are we're entering a point of societal flux here, and one that our leaders seem in no hurry to fight against.

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 17 2017, @11:17PM

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 17 2017, @11:17PM (#555614) Journal

                        One woman was killed just in this instance - they were clearly a pretty damned existential threat to her.

                        Last I checked the rest of the world wasn't endanger with her. And how does one death make current Nazis more existential a threat than lightning strikes or poisoning due to peanuts?

                        But yeah, a few isolated Nazi rallies would be of limited danger on their own. But perhaps you missed the part where this sort of thing is becoming increasingly common, while the freaking President, if not openly condoning them in as many words, is clearly in no hurry to condemn them, using language so gently couched that the Nazi, KKK, etc leaders have openly cited it as support for their cause - which he has likewise declined to deny.

                        What strong evidence for your concerns!

        • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday August 15 2017, @04:17PM

          by bob_super (1357) on Tuesday August 15 2017, @04:17PM (#554301)

          > Americans would flip out if their government ever started overtly censoring the First Amendment rights of any group, and then you’d have unrest
          > throughout the nation with a risk of full-scale revolution from a large and heavily-armed populace.

          Bullshit.
          The revolution was delayed to next Wednesday, because Monday night is football, and on Tuesday there's a doctor's appointment, softball practice, and binge-watch don't-give-me-spoilers the last three episodes of $popular_series.

          The Americans have been tamed with things. Too many have "too much to lose" to help a few gun-toting people have a revolution over censorship of unpleasant people.

        • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:33PM (1 child)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:33PM (#554344) Journal

          But once it becomes so easy to silence assholes like this...

          As far as I can tell there was only one person silenced by this shit-show. Her name was Heather Heyer.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 22 2017, @08:38AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 22 2017, @08:38AM (#557437)

            Fuck off with your useless emotional appeals.

        • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Thursday August 17 2017, @01:04PM (3 children)

          by urza9814 (3954) on Thursday August 17 2017, @01:04PM (#555270) Journal

          ... Americans would flip out if their government ever started overtly censoring the First Amendment rights of any group, and then you’d have unrest throughout the nation with a risk of full-scale revolution from a large and heavily-armed populace. Much easier and more effective to use the private corporations that these same plutocrats own to censor speech which threatens their rule instead.

          Seriously? This country has arrested government employees for publicly reading the Declaration of Independence. Ever heard of the Sedition acts? The McCarthy trials? This government has been enacting various restrictions on the freedom of speech since that amendment was first written, so where's that unrest and revolution?

          Sure, it's easier for them when they don't have to get their hands dirty, but don't pretend they *can't*, because they have in the past and they certainly will again.

          • (Score: 2) by martyb on Saturday August 19 2017, @01:14PM (2 children)

            by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 19 2017, @01:14PM (#556339) Journal

            Seriously? This country has arrested government employees for publicly reading the Declaration of Independence. Ever heard of the Sedition acts? The McCarthy trials? This government has been enacting various restrictions on the freedom of speech since that amendment was first written, so where's that unrest and revolution?

            Sure, it's easier for them when they don't have to get their hands dirty, but don't pretend they *can't*, because they have in the past and they certainly will again.

            You raise good points and, for the most part, I agree.

            I'm curious, though, about "arrested government employees for publicly reading the Declaration of Independence" as I'd not heard of that before... do you happen to have a link for that?

            No snark intended, I''m genuinely interested. Thanks!

            --
            Wit is intellect, dancing.
            • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Monday August 21 2017, @11:37AM (1 child)

              by urza9814 (3954) on Monday August 21 2017, @11:37AM (#556977) Journal

              Originally read it in a book many years ago, but this seems to reference the same case:
              http://missoulian.com/news/local/missoula-witness-to-history-of-industrial-workers-of-the-world/article_a80ba83e-9b67-11de-942e-001cc4c002e0.html [missoulian.com]

              A young logger stepped to the soapbox and started to read the Declaration of Independence. He was cuffed. A civil engineer for the U.S. Forest Service named Herman Tucker saw what was happening from the Forest Service office above. He rushed down, tried to continue the job and was arrested as well.

              • (Score: 2) by martyb on Monday August 21 2017, @10:57PM

                by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Monday August 21 2017, @10:57PM (#557263) Journal

                Originally read it in a book many years ago, but this seems to reference the same case:
                http://missoulian.com/news/local/missoula-witness-to-history-of-industrial-workers-of-the-world/article_a80ba83e-9b67-11de-942e-001cc4c002e0.html [missoulian.com] [missoulian.com]

                A young logger stepped to the soapbox and started to read the Declaration of Independence. He was cuffed. A civil engineer for the U.S. Forest Service named Herman Tucker saw what was happening from the Forest Service office above. He rushed down, tried to continue the job and was arrested as well.

                Thank you for that! I found it a fascinating read, and was quite impressed with their resourcefulness and planning... like arranging so they'd get arrested before dinner time, so the town would face the additional economic burden of feeding them.

                I wonder how a similar situation would be handled, today? Would the governor call out the national guard to protect the peace? Institute zones where the protestors were permitted to speak, and block them from speaking elsewhere?

                "The Times They Are a-Changin'"

                --
                Wit is intellect, dancing.
      • (Score: 2) by deadstick on Tuesday August 15 2017, @10:24PM

        by deadstick (5110) on Tuesday August 15 2017, @10:24PM (#554473)

        Don't they have veteran grandpas to hit them across the head?

        Those guys are dying out, which probably is not coincidental.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Monday August 14 2017, @10:55PM (40 children)

    by fyngyrz (6567) Subscriber Badge on Monday August 14 2017, @10:55PM (#553875) Homepage Journal

    Personally, I don't think it's the job of an ISP, DNS, or other intermediate party to block people's access to information, regardless if that information is distasteful to them.

    I'm not saying they don't have the right - private business and all that - but I am saying that I think this kind of thing is generally harmful.

    One more point: If you suppress the speech of the despicable, you won't hear from them. So you won't know what they're on about. I think the downside far outweighs the upside.

    YMMV, and I'd be interested to read why, if so.

    --
    The eyes are the windows to the soul.
    Sunglasses are the window shades.
    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 14 2017, @11:24PM (32 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 14 2017, @11:24PM (#553889)

      It's not, but SJWs will get their grabby hands on the levers of power and start misusing the power.

      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:03AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:03AM (#553913)

        ...currently held by Fascists.

        What Are Fascists? Are There Fascists In USA? --Vice President Henry Wallace (1944) [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [thomhartmann.com]

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:29AM (28 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:29AM (#553936)

        And idiots will see the bogey man everywhere after swallowing the latest bit of tripe from talking heads. "Public relations" has been around since forever, even animals will shun outcasts. What you are actually angry about is being at least somewhat on the wrong side of a historic shift in our world.

        I'll grant you that humans tend to get corrupted by power, so keeping an eye on humanity's trending power structure will always be needed.

        What needs to be cast aside is the concept of eugenics and racial superiority. The concept is flawed because genetically humanity is all the same, geneticists like to say that race is truly skin deep. Racism is dumb, time to get over that; and you moderates who crow about sjws need to start telling your friends with racist "tendencies" just how harmful they are.

        Hate begets hate, so all the "sjw" violence is actually a symptom of the racial/sexist hatred that has simmered all over, humanity corrupting itself. Haters everywhere, it's inevitable when hate takes too much of center stage. The best place for a cure to take hold is at the location of the wound, and as this event has shown it starts with the nazi wannabes who advocate genocide. Everything else is fallout from people telling such dicks to piss off and leave them alone. Y'know, friendly requests like "don't have a party to lynch my family on the nearest tree" and "please look into the prison system to find out why our sons and daughters are convicted at a much higher rate."

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:46AM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:46AM (#553962)

          "geneticists like to say that race is truly skin deep."

          sickle cell anemia

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @04:09AM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @04:09AM (#554079)

            The 2018 riots are coming. It's like that sound some tea kettles start to make a minute or two before whistling. Do you have a spare gas can? Stay away from major cities. If you haven't already, get out while you still can.

            The people who survived the year from hell often had some way or another of growing their own food. Infrastructure will be gone, and to some it seemed like the climate shifted. Even on an overcast day, solar panels still generate electricity, and the wind still blows. Of course, even then, there was not nearly enough to go around.

            UNLESS

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @08:11AM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @08:11AM (#554165)

              UNLESS

              The nazis and pricks who will stand up and show their faces make up about 2% of the population. The "riots" will last about 5 minutes when these shitstains get outnumbered 10-1 by counter protesters and need police escorts for their own protection. The great irony will be when they have to fall back on Obamacare and welfare when they find themselves unemployable.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @08:51AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @08:51AM (#554172)

                2%? There are 200 of them! And half of those are still in diapers, practically speaking! Yeah, race war! Guess we'll all have to adopt Charles Manson's plan, and team up with the Bikers [wikipedia.org], 'cause they really know how to rumble. Not. OK,it's over. Have the cops arrest all these wankers from the Facebook Facial identification ejaculation files.

              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:53PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:53PM (#554237)

                I think you'll find that George Soros' agents provocateur otherwise known as Antifa are inciting far more violence than a couple hundred wannabe stormtroopers.

        • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Tuesday August 15 2017, @03:26AM (10 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 15 2017, @03:26AM (#554066) Journal

          The concept is flawed because genetically humanity is all the same, geneticists like to say that race is truly skin deep.

          Even if that were true, and it's not, we still have the problem that there are a lot of desirable traits (key one being intelligence) that are at least in part genetic-based. So even if all "races" really were identical, we can manipulate genes in a variety of ways to improve these traits.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @08:54AM (5 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @08:54AM (#554173)

            khallow, sometimes I just want to fuck you in the ass for being such a racist. Now is not one of those times, but you are being a total idiot of a racist. Go sit in your corner until meal time, OK?

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:02PM (4 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:02PM (#554211) Journal
              You have a name?
              • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @04:46PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @04:46PM (#554315)

                Different AC, you're fucked in the head khallow and need to learn some more. Genetic engineering has a host of potential problems, especially when you try and target such a broad trait as intelligence. We've been warned of the dangers, but morons like you still think we need to "improve" humanity for some reason. Fucking nazi punk-in-training.

                I'm sure you don't see yourself as a nazi, but that is the path your thinking leads to so I'll call you out now.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:25PM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:25PM (#554444) Journal

                  Different AC, you're fucked in the head khallow and need to learn some more. Genetic engineering has a host of potential problems, especially when you try and target such a broad trait as intelligence.

                  So what? Everything has problems. And while the problems and ethical dilemmas of genetic engineering tend to be bigger, so are the potential rewards. Someone will do it.

                  I'm sure you don't see yourself as a nazi, but that is the path your thinking leads to so I'll call you out now.

                  And I'm sure that if you really thought about it, you wouldn't see myself as a Nazi either. Eugenics is just a quirk of the Nazi ideology. Their fundamental trait is a worship of power and the state. Eugenics and similar things were mere rationalizations of things that they would have done anyway and found some other way to rationalize.

                  After all, an impartial study of the relative intelligence of various ethnicities of pre-war Germany would have determined that Jews have significant intellectual advantages over any other identifiable ethnic group. Yet they became a big part of the "untermensch", those that the Nazis deemed genetically inferior. That's because Nazi eugenics wasn't about creating people with better genes or breeding, but about rationalizing Nazi bigotry and Nazi bigotry in turn was a means for rationalizing their naked pursuit of power.

                  My view is that eugenics will never become huge in the future, no matter how adventurous we are with the technology, because a cyborg will trounce a person with mere superior genetics.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:30PM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:30PM (#554447) Journal

                  but morons like you still think we need to "improve" humanity for some reason.

                  And the reason for the need to improve humanity should be damn obvious - life span and limited mental capabilities. Sorry, 80 years is not very long. And we spend way too much of that time just figuring out basic stuff.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 16 2017, @09:03AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 16 2017, @09:03AM (#554618)

                My NAME is GOD! You pathetic excuse for a human being! Bow down, khallow, or I really will fuck you in the ass! Now, what you said is just not true, and I should know, since I created the whole shebang! Intelligence is not passed on from parents to children. Just consider your own case! See? And also, for you to maintain that it does, is, you know, just a little bit racist, since we all know what you are getting at, and we really, really, do not like racists, because anyone who starts thinking they are "superior" looks 1) silly to me, being omnipotent and all, and 2)just flat out wrong, as in your case. So give me 20, khallow, and 10 Hail Maries, and 5 Our Fathers, and a donation to the Black Lives Matter Fund. God Commands you. You twerp.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:19PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:19PM (#554441)

            Even if that were true, and it's not, we still have the problem that there are a lot of desirable traits (key one being intelligence) that are at least in part genetic-based.

            [citation needed]

            Hint: you will first have to come up with a quantitative measure of "intelligence". Until then, you are just a Nazi wannabe.

            So even if all "races" really were identical, we can manipulate genes in a variety of ways to improve these traits.

            And you will have to come up with a precise definition of "improvement".

            Second hint: evolution and "survival of the fittest" care nothing for your teleological views. Adaptation is only about adapting species to a niche within the environment. Environments change and so do the traits most desirable for adaptation.

            Nuff said?

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:35PM (2 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:35PM (#554452) Journal

              Even if that were true, and it's not, we still have the problem that there are a lot of desirable traits (key one being intelligence) that are at least in part genetic-based.

              [citation needed] Hint: you will first have to come up with a quantitative measure of "intelligence". Until then, you are just a Nazi wannabe.

              A couple questions for you. Is the difference in intellectual capabilities between a human and a tree due to upbringing and environment? If not, then what is it due to?

              It's nonsensical to ignore that genes are what creates the profound differences that separate us from other species on Earth and then claim that intelligence can't be improved through changes in genetic makeup.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 16 2017, @09:08AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 16 2017, @09:08AM (#554619)

                A couple questions for you. Is the difference in intellectual capabilities between a human and a tree due to upbringing and environment? If not, then what is it due to?

                It is due to you being a Nazi, khallow! Why do you persist in your racist tendencies? Why are ravens like a writing desk? And why are you not a nice liberal progressive your parents can be proud of, instead of this alt-right monster they want nothing to due with?

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday August 16 2017, @12:30PM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 16 2017, @12:30PM (#554679) Journal

                  It is due to you being a Nazi, khallow! Why do you persist in your racist tendencies? Why are ravens like a writing desk? And why are you not a nice liberal progressive your parents can be proud of, instead of this alt-right monster they want nothing to due with?

                  Why do you think that is racism? I'll note, for example, two obvious counterarguments. First, I noted that cybernetics would be superior to genetic manipulation for making people smarter and such. Second, improving genetics is not exclusive to particular ethnicities. The "white race" is not somehow peculiarly suited to genetic improvement. Thus, my beliefs neither have a strong belief in the value of genetics over other approaches, nor favor particular ethnicities. Thus, it is not racism.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Tuesday August 15 2017, @06:34AM (10 children)

          ...Racism is dumb...

          Actually, it's a nonsense because there's only one human race.

          --
          It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
          • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:52PM (8 children)

            by Wootery (2341) on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:52PM (#554235)

            So you'd rather come up with a new word for the commonalities of genetics and heritage that make certain groups predisposed to sickle cell disease?

            Is there some reason 'race' isn't a good fit?

            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday August 15 2017, @02:39PM (3 children)

              by c0lo (156) on Tuesday August 15 2017, @02:39PM (#554267)

              So you'd rather come up with a new word for the commonalities of genetics and heritage that make certain groups predisposed to sickle cell disease?

              Do redheads make a new race?
              Among other traits, they don't tan, only get sunburnt.

              • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Tuesday August 15 2017, @03:33PM (2 children)

                by Wootery (2341) on Tuesday August 15 2017, @03:33PM (#554283)

                Could say so, sure. Biologically we probably should. It's one of those fuzzy things, much like dog breeds, or indeed the idea of species. The fact that it doesn't have 'hard edges' doesn't mean the idea doesn't exist.

                • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:01PM (1 child)

                  by c0lo (156) on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:01PM (#554432)

                  And, other than a hair splitting exercise, what good is distinguishing races bringing in the picture?

                  • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Wednesday August 16 2017, @08:56AM

                    by Wootery (2341) on Wednesday August 16 2017, @08:56AM (#554616)

                    hair splitting

                    Like the redheads? :-P

                    Depends what you mean by 'the picture'. The risk of sickle cell disease is race sensitive. Pretending that isn't true could only make you worse at being a medical doctor.

                    Redheads need more anaesthetic. [nih.gov] Again, I'd hope a medical professional wouldn't try to deny this in the name of being PC.

                    Of course, day to day, race doesn't matter a damn for 99% of us. That doesn't mean you get to pretend that race is just an incoherent idea, or that it is a matter of identity rather than biology.

            • (Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Tuesday August 15 2017, @11:00PM (3 children)

              Is there some reason 'race' isn't a good fit?

              Because, used in your example, people with blood type O would be a different race to people with blood type AB. There would be nearly as many "human races" as there are people*. Which reinforces the "nonsense" part.

               

              *An exaggeration, but a very slight one.

              --
              It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
              • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Wednesday August 16 2017, @08:51AM (2 children)

                by Wootery (2341) on Wednesday August 16 2017, @08:51AM (#554614)

                No. Dawkins knows more about this than you. 'Race' just means 'really extended family with certain attributes in common'. There is no need to obtusely pretend that the idea is incoherent.

                As I said elsewhere: just because it doesn't have hard edges, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's the same thing with dog breeds.

                • (Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Wednesday August 16 2017, @10:38AM (1 child)

                  by fido_dogstoyevsky (131) <reversethis-{moc.liamg} {ta} {eldnahexa}> on Wednesday August 16 2017, @10:38AM (#554648)

                  As I said elsewhere: just because it doesn't have hard edges, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's the same thing with dog breeds.

                  So do people with different blood types or different eye colour belong to different races?

                  --
                  It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
                  • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Wednesday August 16 2017, @11:11AM

                    by Wootery (2341) on Wednesday August 16 2017, @11:11AM (#554655)

                    You're being obtuse, nothing more. Do dogs of similar colour necessary belong to the same breed? No, of course not.

                    Seeing as how blood type and eye colour can vary even within immediate family, the answer to your question is No, of course not.

          • (Score: 2) by etherscythe on Wednesday August 16 2017, @02:14PM

            by etherscythe (937) on Wednesday August 16 2017, @02:14PM (#554716)

            There's only one human species. There are many, many human races.

            --
            "Fake News: anything reported outside of my own personally chosen echo chamber"
        • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:49PM

          by Wootery (2341) on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:49PM (#554234)

          geneticists like to say that race is truly skin deep

          Dawkins sure doesn't say that. [twitter.com] Heard of sickle cell anemia?

          There's a lot of silly doublethink about race, particularly on the left. I really don't see why - admitting that race exists doesn't mean we all suddenly become racists.

          Here's [the-scientist.com] a good example:

          while race itself is not a biological variable, groups that self-identify as a given race may share biologic characteristics that originated as a result of shared ancestry. For example, persons of African descent in the United States who self-identify as black or African American are more likely to have certain biologic traits that were ancestrally protective in Africa, such as heterozygosity for sickle cell disease

          It contradicts itself within the same paragraph! Is it not obvious that race is shared ancestry? Or do they seriously think that identifying with a race can make you more or less genetically disposed to certain conditions?

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by Gaaark on Monday August 14 2017, @11:25PM

      by Gaaark (41) Subscriber Badge on Monday August 14 2017, @11:25PM (#553890) Homepage Journal

      What gets me is their site: big, macho dudes and dudettes saying kill Jews, fatties, sluts and---

      ----"ooooh, Pokémon Go rare creature," (or whatever it is, I don't fecking play), "I just shit my PAAAANTIES!"

      WTF!?!?!

      Did I miss the girly sarcasm?

      I support freedom of speech, but.......

      --
      --- That's not flying: that's... falling... with more luck than I have. ---
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:24AM (1 child)

      by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:24AM (#553929) Homepage Journal

      ... he will know what the conservatives are up to. Quite a few times I've been visiting and listened to Rush Limbaugh along with him.

      Dave Johnson [seeingtheforest.com].

      Jimmy Carter reads his blog.

      --
      "Every time a bulbous dickhead helps the employers by running a job board for them, employers win." -- AC
      • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Tuesday August 15 2017, @03:02AM

        by hemocyanin (186) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 15 2017, @03:02AM (#554051)

        +1 informative link. Thanks.

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by jmorris on Tuesday August 15 2017, @02:16AM (3 children)

      by jmorris (4844) <{jmorris} {at} {beau.org}> on Tuesday August 15 2017, @02:16AM (#554036)

      Fine, but don't expect to maintain common carrier protection if you are exercising editorial control. Pick one. Pick wisely.

      And yes, if you are an ISP using a government granted monopoly you should be forced to remain a common carrier. I.e. government granted right of way, etc. See my frequent rants about how to properly break up the telco / cable / Internet monopolies such that this wouldn't be an issue.

      And if anyone wondered why Alt-Tech was becoming a thing, well now you know who was thinking ahead of the curve. Won't be long now until the Right will even have to build an Alt-Root after trying and failing to register a tld and none of the other top levels permitting "evil wrongthinkers" to register in theirs. But for now, gab, infogalactic and hatreon will need to be joined by a domain registrar and a hosting company within the next six months. Keep going guys, just keep making our point that you can't be reasoned with, you can't be coexisted with, that you are not our countrymen. Every day a few more of the neutral normies wake up. This is how you got Trump, this is how you got the Alt-Right and if it keeps up it is how you will find out what being on the losing end of a war looks like. Double down again, it is what ya do.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @04:54PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @04:54PM (#554320)

        You do realize you're aligning yourself with nazis right? All the rhetoric about "wrongthink" is conspiracy level paranoia, so you're either a bit of a nutter (no argument from anyone here I'm sure) or you're a nazi sympathizer. So, which is it bud?

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday August 16 2017, @12:40PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 16 2017, @12:40PM (#554681) Journal

          You do realize you're aligning yourself with nazis right? All the rhetoric about "wrongthink" is conspiracy level paranoia, so you're either a bit of a nutter (no argument from anyone here I'm sure) or you're a nazi sympathizer. So, which is it bud?

          A conspiracy would imply that something is covert. The overt is not a conspiracy. Just witness all the people here losing their shit just because someone puts forth the opinion that there are genetic differences between different ethnicities, intelligence has a genetic component, or ISPs and social media hosts can be incurring liability by policing their forums and connections for unpopular beliefs.

      • (Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:32PM

        by realDonaldTrump (6614) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:32PM (#554343) Homepage Journal

        We're losing a lot of people because of the Internet. We have to see Bill Gates and a lot of different people that really understand what's happening. We have to talk to them about, maybe in certain areas, closing that Internet up in some way. Somebody will say, oh freedom of speech, freedom of speech. These are foolish people. 🇺🇸

        --
        #StopTheBias [twitter.com]
  • (Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 14 2017, @11:02PM (34 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 14 2017, @11:02PM (#553878)

    Hitting participants in a counter-demonstration with a car at full speed is an expression and, as such, need to be protected.
    The right of free speech/expression will always Trump some unfortunate deaths.

    Discuss please.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 14 2017, @11:30PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 14 2017, @11:30PM (#553892)

      Think about the car you insensitive clod!

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:11AM (23 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:11AM (#553915)

      Hitting participants in a counter-demonstration with a car at full speed is an expression and, as such, need to be protected.

      Violence or incitement to violence are is not protected expression or speech. Which is something neither the left in general or the stupid fucker that rammed his car into a counter-protest understand.

      The alt-right shitheads had a federal permit for the rally and the ACLU went to court to uphold that permit while the counter protesters had no permits. Somebody gave the order for the police to stand down, this lead to the skirmishes that allowed the governor to declare a state of emergency, that lead to the legal rally being disbanded, that lead to to an illegal gathering that was attacked by a murderous terrorist. Who the hell gave the police the orders to stand down when known violent protestors from Antifa and BLM are descending on a constitutionally protected assembly? Why are these officials not being held culpable?

      Far-right, far-left and partisan public servants are all complete shits!

      • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:23AM (20 children)

        by c0lo (156) on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:23AM (#553927)

        to an illegal gathering

        Umm... what?
        I'm looking over Unlawfull assembly [wikipedia.org] and I don't see any mention of USA having specific laws.
        Would you like to provide details?

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:29AM (1 child)

          They're largely local laws that get around the 1A by saying they're not restricting freedom of assembly but regulating traffic and such. Me, I think if you have to ask permission it's not a Right anymore.

          --
          "Buzzy, you're probably the dumbest person I've ever encountered. Well, there is aristarchus, so make it 2nd dumbest."
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:39AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:39AM (#553951)

            Have an Internet Point!

        • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:42AM (11 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:42AM (#553957)

          Umm... what?
          I'm looking over Unlawfull assembly [wikipedia.org] and I don't see any mention of USA having specific laws.
          Would you like to provide details?

          I already did. The "unlawful assembly" that was used to invoke the state of emergency was the counter protesting far-left turds and not the far-right turds who had both a constitutionally protected right to freedom of assembly and a federal permit for their rally. Antifa are all about "bashing the fash", they started the violence and the police had a duty to keep them away.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:11AM (10 children)

            by c0lo (156) on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:11AM (#553986)

            The "unlawful assembly" that was used to invoke the state of emergency was the counter protesting far-left turds and not the far-right turds who had both a constitutionally protected right to freedom of assembly and a federal permit for their rally.

            Really now?
            How was the demonstration on Friday night [theguardian.com], then?
            'Cause the alt-right demonstration was approved for Saturday, not Friday, and I doubt the one on Friday got approval for the violence you see around min 34 [www.pscp.tv]

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:16AM (9 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:16AM (#553993)

              and I doubt the one on Friday got approval for the violence you see when antifa showed up

              Antifa are not your friend. [soylentnews.org] I don't like defending the far-right but like the ACLU, I take a principled stand towards legal rights for all.

              • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:55AM (8 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:55AM (#554023)

                I like the Antifa, because they saved my family when the Nazis were trying to round us up and send us to the death camps. You might say that they got a little carried away with things like the bombing of Dresden, and maybe even killed some Germans who were not really Nazis, but you know, that doesn't bother me at all, because they allowed racism to happen. So the Antifa are my friends.

                • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:26AM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:26AM (#554094)

                  I like the Antifa, because they [...] maybe even killed some Germans who were not really Nazis, but you know, that doesn't bother me at all, because they allowed racism to happen. So the Antifa are my friends.

                  So, you want to kill people over the mere perception of having supported racism. Eat hot lead, murderous scum.

                  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @08:59AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @08:59AM (#554175)

                    Yes, I did, and I still do. Eat 2000lb blockbusters, you Nazi sympathizing scum! I really regret it has come to this, that we have kill you, your family, and your cute little pets, but if only you had stopped the Nuremberg Rallies, or this Unite Fascists march in Charlottesville, we would not have to kill all. Too bad you did not think to build enough bombers before starting the whole thing. Or, IF YOU ARE A RACIST, remember, NEVER ATTACK AMERICA. We will kill you. Bombs or Jew Bears, we will kill you.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:31AM (5 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:31AM (#554182)

                  I like the Antifa, because they saved my family when the Nazis were trying to round us up and send us to the death camps.

                  Antifa didn't stop Hitler, their violence propelled him to power.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:07PM (1 child)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:07PM (#554212) Journal
                    The antifa of the 20s was Communism. And German society's fear of them was a significant boost to the Nazis. Personally, I think the US won't replay the Wiemar Republic of the 20s and 30s. But it might replay the failure of the Third French Republic who also built a wall [wikipedia.org].
                    • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Tuesday August 15 2017, @02:45PM

                      by jmorris (4844) <{jmorris} {at} {beau.org}> on Tuesday August 15 2017, @02:45PM (#554269)

                      Don't be too sure. We have made most of their mistakes, let the money printing we have already done finally (most economists still can't explain why it hasn't already happened) launch hyperinflation and with the simmering hatreds already being displayed things could get mighty ugly mighty fast. And if anybody can tell you how such a chaotic system will react under unprecedented stresses they are fools you may safely ignore.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:30PM (2 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:30PM (#554449)

                    The "Anti-fascists" were also referred to as "The Allies". Perhaps you have heard of some of them? The nations of Britain, the United States of America, and the Soviet of Socialist Republics. These are the "antifa". Violence? You have no idea! Unconditional surrender of fascists, that is the goal.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 16 2017, @01:07AM (1 child)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 16 2017, @01:07AM (#554511)

                      'Cause Soviet Russia turned out to be such a great ally to both USA/Britain/etc. and the Russian people...

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 16 2017, @09:19AM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 16 2017, @09:19AM (#554626)

                        You dare say this about a nation that sacrifices 20 million of its citizens to save the world from Nazism? I am thinking that these alt-right people are really, really stupid and ignorant of history. And disrespectful. No wonder they are so upset that when they march in real life, people don't like them. 20 million souls will be following you on your next march, along with a half million Americans who died fighting you and your type. Traitors.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:51AM (5 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:51AM (#553967) Journal

          Unlawful assembly is a bullshit term trotted out from time to time by officials who want to break up an assembly. Like yourself, I've never been satisfied with any definition offered. The constitution doesn't protect the freedom of association or assembly "when permits are issued". There is no mention in the constitution of permits. Meaning, I'm permitted to attend an assembly whenever I damned well feel like it. If/when that assembly turns into a riot, THEN the police have authority to break it up. Not one second sooner though.

          --
          #eatyourliver #WalkAway #CTRLLeft
          • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:02AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:02AM (#553975)

            Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly.

            Antifa's stated goal is "bash the fash", they forfeit all right to assembly. They have no legal right turning up anywhere. Turning up with violent intention towards political opponents is terrorism, Fields is being charged with second degree as police clearly have a problem proving premeditation.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:58PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:58PM (#554262)

              White nationalism has no peaceful intent, and there is no "civil discourse" to be had if your skin is different (or you oppose them). Don't lie.

              People who support American nazis gathering safely, who think nazism is just an opinion, are complicit in the murders.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @04:49PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @04:49PM (#554319)

              Awww, are the poor white fascists on the other end of the gun barrel this time? I feel so baaaaad for them.

              Start by condemning the long running group of hateful nazi fucks, THEN maybe we'll listen to your antifa whining. Otherwise you just come off as a nazi sympathizer, which I'm suuuure you don't want right?

          • (Score: 2) by etherscythe on Wednesday August 16 2017, @02:28PM (1 child)

            by etherscythe (937) on Wednesday August 16 2017, @02:28PM (#554724)

            This is pretty radical thinking. The Constitution spelled out the ideals of the nation, but it is up to Congress and the states to implement the fine details so that these ideas can be made to fit with reality. If the states decide that a permit system is the way to do this - then that's the legitimate law of the land until the Supreme Court says otherwise.

            I'm suddenly reminded of the way Christians tend to view evolution as antithetical to their beliefs because, for some reason, their God could not use evolution as a process to produce the world per their dogma.

            --
            "Fake News: anything reported outside of my own personally chosen echo chamber"
            • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Thursday August 17 2017, @01:59PM

              by urza9814 (3954) on Thursday August 17 2017, @01:59PM (#555305) Journal

              The Constitution spelled out the ideals of the nation, but it is up to Congress and the states to implement the fine details so that these ideas can be made to fit with reality.

              Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

              So yeah, Congress "implementing the fine details" is still unconstitutional. What part of "Congress shall make no law" is unclear? As the parent said, they can pass laws to break it up when it turns into a riot, or is no longer "peaceable"; but otherwise they are not permitted to enact any regulations. This now applies to state governments as well through the Fourteenth Amendment as interpreted in De Jonge v. Oregon.

              Worth looking into that De Jonge v. Oregon as well, because it fits this situation too. De Jonge was arrested at a Communist Party meeting, specifically for associating with the Communists who were considered by the government to be a criminal organization. The courts overturned the conviction because De Jonge himself was not engaged in any illegal activity other than attending the meeting. The local government passed a law declaring the whole meeting to be illegal, but the courts said that such regulation violates the right to free assembly.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @08:07AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @08:07AM (#554163)

        The word is "led" not "lead."

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday August 15 2017, @10:22AM

          by c0lo (156) on Tuesday August 15 2017, @10:22AM (#554193)

          Maybe so, but using lead will lend the matter some weight, some gravity...

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:13AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:13AM (#553918)

      Hitting participants in a counter-demonstration with a car at full speed is an expression and, as such, need to be protected.

      • Not all muslims - the left
      • All conservatives - also the left
      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:35AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:35AM (#553947)

        Incorrect, sorry you have such a persecution complex. You're confusing two similar topics.

        - Police your community: conservatives
        - No problems in our community no sir: also conservatives

        Conservative != Racist
        Racist == 90/10 probability conservative / liberal

        Prejudice exists in every nation, the US is called the great experiment. Where humanity all tries to live together. And fuck it all if it doesn't actually work pretty well!!

        Now playing the victim card over an incident like this? Makes you look like a dick.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:45AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:45AM (#553960)

          Didn't conservatives unanimously condemn the vehicular attack? Where are the left condemning BLM and Antifa violence?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:48AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:48AM (#554016)

      Worst car analogy ever.

    • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Tuesday August 15 2017, @03:05AM (3 children)

      by hemocyanin (186) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 15 2017, @03:05AM (#554052)

      You're the moron who also thinks money is speech I suppose. Here's an easy rule: if the "speech" causes physical harm to another person, it isn't speech.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:28AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:28AM (#554095)

        Please hurt me by throwing money at me. Preferably large, unmarked bills. I'll also accept gold coins, so long as I can grab my helmet first.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @04:17PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @04:17PM (#554300)

          Do you still accept the coins approaching at a relative speed of 2000 km/hr?

          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:44PM

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:44PM (#554353) Journal

            You'd need a railgun for that one I'm told. A scientific-like one.

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
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