from the Quis-custodiet-ipsos-custodes? dept.
Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:
Hackers from the Dutch intelligence service AIVD have provided the FBI with crucial information about Russian interference with the American elections. For years, AIVD had access to the infamous Russian hacker group Cozy Bear. That's what de Volkskrant and Nieuwsuur have uncovered in their investigation.
It's the summer of 2014. A hacker from the Dutch intelligence agency AIVD has penetrated the computer network of a university building next to the Red Square in Moscow, oblivious to the implications. One year later, from the AIVD headquarters in Zoetermeer, he and his colleagues witness Russian hackers launching an attack on the Democratic Party in the United States. The AIVD hackers had not infiltrated just any building; they were in the computer network of the infamous Russian hacker group Cozy Bear. And unbeknownst to the Russians, they could see everything.
That's how the AIVD becomes witness to the Russian hackers harassing and penetrating the leaders of the Democratic Party, transferring thousands of emails and documents. It won't be the last time they alert their American counterparts. And yet, it will be months before the United States realize what this warning means: that with these hacks the Russians have interfered with the American elections. And the AIVD hackers have seen it happening before their very eyes.
The Dutch access provides crucial evidence of the Russian involvement in the hacking of the Democratic Party, according to six American and Dutch sources who are familiar with the material, but wish to remain anonymous. It's also grounds for the FBI to start an investigation into the influence of the Russian interference on the election race between the Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton and the Republican candidate Donald Trump.
Translated by: Lisa Negrijn
It's quite an interesting read.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @02:51PM (43 children)
... influence, then maybe your system is crap and shouldn't exist in the first place.
A vote given to a person for free is going to be vote that isn't spent wisely; make people work for their right to vote in any given election.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @02:58PM (33 children)
Doctors have to prove that they remain competent; maybe voters should have to prove the same.
Perhaps voters should have to complete "Continuing Education" every 4 years or so, showing that they retain a knowledge for how the system works, who has been elected so far, what the deficits are, etc.
Of course, a bad doctor also goes out of business. Maybe the right to vote should similarly be tied to one's economic productivity.
This is why we cannot have nice conversations:
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @03:13PM (11 children)
That's a genius idea that has never been tried before and has never been used to suppress minorities. How can we possibly trust whoever makes these tests to not abuse this power to try to suppress the votes of groups they do not like?
Your bias is already showing. What does "who has been elected so far" mean exactly? And why is knowing trivia like the deficit relevant to whether or not you should be allowed to vote?
Well, this idea is unconstitutional, anyway.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @03:31PM (10 children)
Your rebuttal could be said for doctors.
I guess when it comes to knife against flesh, people take things a bit more serious, and thank goodness that they do.
Also, "It's unconstitutional" is irrelevant; the very discussion is about the nature of the existing system, and how it could be changed.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:00PM (9 children)
False equivalence. Testing doctors will not lead to the suppression of certain groups of people, and nor are there any obvious motivations for doing so.
Voting tests have always been used for suppression of groups deemed undesirable. If you're at all skeptical of the government - which you should be - then you already do not want it to have the power to forbid people from voting based on the results of some tests that it itself would create. Sounds like Big Government to me.
I find it even more laughable that the knowledge you suggested people should have before being allowed to vote reveal why voting tests are such a bad idea. You could choose just the right questions so as to suppress people who are unlikely to vote for a particular party.
It's at times like these that I'm glad it's difficult to change the Constitution.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:36PM (8 children)
Let's start there. Answer me that.
And, please, no snide "Your type".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @05:34PM (4 children)
Oh, you're the guy who always starts his posts in the subject field. My mistake. Congratulations, I guess.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @06:45PM (3 children)
He's been hoist by his own petard.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:29PM (2 children)
Yes, your reputation follows you. You may not have an account but you've shitposted here long enough that I often suspect you're in a thread and then you confirm it with some of your more drastic positions. Like putting half our comment in the subject line. Others have done it, but paired with your general block headed nature it is probably a 97% accurate assessment.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @04:12AM (1 child)
The thing that amazes me about our anarcho-capitalist anon is how he's able to just keep on going, and going, and going, and going, and going....
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 30 2018, @05:39AM
He's able to do that because he doesn't put any actual thought into his posts. I see this with apologists too; they don't need to invest much in their posts because the thinking, and I am using the word very generously here, has already been done for them. They just have to sit there and squeeze, pardon the imagery...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @10:08PM (2 children)
If you are dumb, you shouldn't vote. We ought to have a high standard for this, probably without a sharp cutoff. For example, votes get weighted according to intelligence percentile. Throw a few IQ questions on the ballot.
If your family contains anybody who has ever been here illegally, you shouldn't vote.
If you have no investment in the future of the country, you shouldn't vote. This means you need children or, if over the age of 60, you need grandchildren.
If you believe in the supremacy of a non-constitutional form of law, you shouldn't vote.
If your family doesn't pay more in taxes than you receive in benefits (including government employee salary) then you shouldn't vote.
If you hold any non-USA citizenship, you shouldn't vote.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @01:21AM (1 child)
My Gawd you are dumb if you think being dumb disqualifies you from voting. What are you, white or something?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @04:06AM
wut?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday January 29 2018, @04:12PM (13 children)
Do the words "poll tax" ring any bells? How long has it bloody been since fourth grade civics for you anyway?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:43PM (9 children)
Given your history of comments, I'm pretty sure you live in a hay bale.
Suck a cock, you trash website.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday January 29 2018, @09:32PM (8 children)
That isn't a straw man, you stupid motherfucker. Crack a goddamn history book for once in your life, assuming you can read beyond a kindergarten level.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @12:07AM (7 children)
No, the OP's statements don't imply a poll tax either, and they certainly don't imply the shenanigans that occurred around any poll tax.
So, try again, Mr. Haystack.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @12:17AM (2 children)
Sure there is a slight difference between a "voting license" that requires some sort of civics test and a "poll tax" which is a financial barrier, but the concepts are similar enough to convey the idea that putting barriers in front of voting only serves to disenfranchise specific groups of voters. Poll taxes prevented the poor from voting, a "voting license" will be abused by counties to make some people fail and not get a vote. History is full of this crap, so what is wrong with your brain huh?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @04:09AM (1 child)
... disenfranchised, no?
So, either you think everyone should be able to vote (if only for having been born in a certain geographical location), or you don't; which is it?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @05:54PM
Wow you are stupid. No one should be barred from voting, not even felons. The impact any single person can make is miniscule, the impact voting restrictions have is wide and general with no care for accuracy.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 30 2018, @05:32AM (3 children)
One, it's Miss Haystack, and two, as the AC below you pointed out, suppressive measures to prevent "the wrong sort" from voting always hit the poor and the undeserving of it rather than whoever they're supposed to keep out.
Why don't you register an account and face me head-on, coward? We know it's you; no one else posts AC and starts the post in the title. Janrinok has your VPN's number. What kind of weak-sauce basement-crawling needledick has to sink this low?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 30 2018, @09:34PM (2 children)
Actually, martyb and I are the only ones with access to unhashed IP addresses that've spoken in IRC today. Jan's got super-mega-honcho edity powers on the website but not admin access to the underlying architecture. He'd need it to tell the webserver to start running an access log because rehash only stores it already hashed that I've found.
Side note: The girl my mother warned me about had safety pins in her eyebrow, the sides of her head shaved, strategically ripped jeans that fit her extremely well, and quite often bruises acquired whilst kicking someone's entire ass. If that's you, it's an absolute shame you play for the wrong team.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 30 2018, @10:38PM (1 child)
I've had the bruises acquired by kicking, as you put it, peoples' entire asses, but haven't cut my hair for almost 25 years and would never scar myself up with DIY piercings. I basically look like a six-foot Caucasian yuurei in black jeans and steel-toed boots.
And who says I'm playing for the wrong team? :) If people could actually choose to be straight or gay, trust me, eeeevery single woman out there would be U-Hauling.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday January 31 2018, @01:32AM
If everyone could choose who they were attracted to, you'd be absolutely correct; there would be zero straight men for straight women to want. It's undoubtedly a genetic thing. Not difficult to see the absolute necessity for it either.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @05:25PM
Given your history of comments, I'm pretty sure you live in a hay bale.
Suck a cock, you trash website.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @06:43PM (1 child)
Given your history of comments, I'm pretty sure you live in a hay bale.
Suck a cock, you trash website.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:50PM
Please stop using this trash website.
Sincerely,
Oscar
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday January 29 2018, @05:43PM (3 children)
The real fix is not some kind of voter qualification test -- as tempting as that sounds. That would be subject to massive manipulation as bad or worse than pole tacks, jerry meandering, or other mechanisms to prevent or erect barriers for otherwise qualified individuals to vote.
The real fix is edumacation. Make sure all the chillin's is edumacated. As George W. Bush said: "Rarely is the question asked, is our children learning?".
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Monday January 29 2018, @06:40PM
The real fix is edumacation.
I don't think so. Lots of "smart" people are still voting for republicans and democrats. Evidently they are just as easily manipulated by propaganda as anybody.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by Arik on Monday January 29 2018, @07:48PM (1 child)
Sorry I just thought that was adorable.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @12:19AM
Damnit Jerry this is why we never invite you on adventures. You're a worthless piece of crap, go meaaaander into the daycare center.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Monday January 29 2018, @06:13PM
I sometimes doubt your reading comprehension.
You are probably using a VPN to help mask your identity. The same IP address has been frequently used for bad posting and, as it quite clearly informs you, it has been temporarily disabled. The problem is PEBKAC [wikipedia.org] at your end.
You have made the choice that your anonymity is more important than your ability to have your point of view heard. If you log in, you will probably not see this message. Either change your VPN or learn to live with your choices.
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Tuesday January 30 2018, @03:26PM (1 child)
No, they should not. Unsurprisingly for an AC, you don't understand what you're talking about. Democracy isn't all about picking the best politicians.
Half the point of democracy is that everyone who is governed, gets to vote on government. This gives rise to a sense of legitimacy that other systems of government lack. If you try to tweak the system to disqualify parts of the populace in the name of getting the system to elect better politicians, you're going to introduce a societal cost and instability that easily outweighs any advantage that you might win (and I doubt there'd be any).
Also, politicians would be encouraged to discount the interests of those disqualified people, as they don't count when it comes to voting time. This further worsens the sense of disenfranchisement that you'd get.
Beyond that, the idea is so open to abuse that it would be a terrible idea even if the aforementioned issues didn't arise.
If you want to tweak democracy to get better politicians into office, look to voting systems, which can make a real difference. Your idea of disenfranchising subpopulations (I'm sure you would still be allowed to vote, right?), is utterly misguided.
That's just stupid. I'd be hard pressed to come up with a better way to bring about a civil war/revolution. Maybe you're just trolling; it's hard to tell with ACs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @06:43PM
It really does start to feel like it is a massive troll campaign. Maybe Aristrachus is playing a twisted sort of Devil's Advocate, spewing forth the worst anarcho-capitalist crap to get good arguments against it.
(Score: 3, Funny) by turgid on Monday January 29 2018, @03:01PM
Q: Do you promise not to vote Democrat or any other kind of pinko commie?
A: If you insist.
Q: Congratulations, citizen, your voting license is renewed for another four years. God bless America!
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by tizan on Monday January 29 2018, @04:36PM (7 children)
Huh that is the whole point of an election...people get influenced to vote one way or another.
But they are supposed to be influenced by politicians and news pertaining to issues that matter to them. Whether they are morons in your point of view or
geniuses ...is immaterial. The people make the decision with their own capacity or non capacity ...no prerequisite test of anykind (money in bank account, color of skin, number of years in school etc) ...that is the constitution.
It is illegal for a foreign entity to invest in advertisement to influence the election in the US and that is what happened....it is not just "unwanted", it is illegal influence (including further illegal activity of hacking and stealing emails)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:59PM (2 children)
For this discussion, it's totally irrelevant what the Constitution or the wider law says.
The system as currently set up is brittle and reactionary.
Voting in an election is, as with every human interaction, a question of how society's resources should be allocated; why should this question be answered by giving unequal minds an equal say? Why should people who have made poor choices for society get as much of a say as people who have made good choices for society?
We actually have a really good system for choosing how much say a person should have over society's resources: Capitalism. The better your choices, the more say you have, and the worse your choices, the less say you have. Perhaps, then, as much of government as possible should be re-configured to work under capitalism instead of democracy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:55PM
Capitalism: the system that has resulted in sequestering humanity's wealth into the hands of the few. Said wealth is then used to purchase legislation, which is obviously a branch of corruption not Capitalism, therefore any problems resulting from Capitalism will be ignored because REASONS!
Get help you troll, stop trying to spread your Putin fanboi-ism.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday January 29 2018, @09:36PM
Were you born this way or was it a lifestyle choice? I am genuinely curious.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Monday January 29 2018, @06:34PM (3 children)
Not in Russia. And what happens when the advertising is done all outside of the US? Web browsers don't stop us at the US border.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Monday January 29 2018, @08:45PM
Ultimately a bad idea anyways. Essentially suppressing the expression of views, which also happen to result in foreign economic contributions. The former is antithetical to American values, the latter is very much in line with American Capitalism.
There are two things here with the election that matter. Hacking, and Influencing. Hacking is something we should consider an attack on our sovereignty, but that hasn't been proven anymore than massive voter fraud. Hacking in the context of "gaming" or manipulating the votes is widely practiced by everyone in the US anyways. Influencing should be completely legal and protected by the 1st. Let Kimmie buy airtime in San Francisco espousing the values of Juche. Who gives a shit? American company got paid. Maybe 1 or 2 crazy marginalized people decided to defect to NK.
My feeling is at this point, if we were manipulated like that and we voted for Trump, we're responsible. It wasn't hacked, I actually cast my own vote.
What concerns me is fake news, and by that, I mean the promulgation of shit known to be false and created simply to manipulate people with falsities. That is handled by slander and libel laws I would imagine, and the state could possibly sue somebody for spreading a lie that could cause harm. The point being we have ways to deal with people spreading lies already. What greatly concerns me is that it seems Trump did collude with the Russians, and he never disclosed his interests. So more conflicts of interest concerns than that we convinced Cletus, a Deplorable, to vote for Trump by spreading lies about Hillary's evil kiddie porn basement.
Perhaps the greatest lesson from all of this is that a good percentage of us are just plain stupid and can be controlled via social media and their handlers, the shinies.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by tizan on Tuesday January 30 2018, @01:14AM (1 child)
Not being able to enforce the law does not make it legal.
Non US citizen financing advert meant to be seen by US citizens in the US....is still illegal in my understanding (but I am not a lawyer etc....)
Now the question:
What would happen if it were porn advertisement...why don't we see porn advert, in our browsers which cannot be stopped at borders, in the US hosted from an oil platform say ?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 30 2018, @03:00AM
I don't see it that way. I see it as making the activity in question quite legal.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 29 2018, @03:07PM (26 children)
Any time anyone wants to interfere in our elections by spilling the dirty secrets our politicians are hiding, they have my eternal gratitude.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @03:16PM (23 children)
Hear, hear! The truth does not become a danger to our democracy, even if it's our geopolitical opponents that let the secrets out.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @05:40PM (22 children)
Except if The Donald doesn't like the truth. In that case it's called fake news spread by the unreliable media.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 29 2018, @06:15PM (14 children)
I'm curious. Why would anyone bother to virtue signal as an AC?
I mean, it has to be virtue signaling because it can't be meant as a joke. Jokes are meant to be funny and, since most of the nation do not suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome, it's not.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @06:28PM (4 children)
Maybe because not not all people are attention whores like Trump obviously is?
Just guessing... Different ACs will have have different opinions & reasons.
(Score: 3, Touché) by fustakrakich on Monday January 29 2018, @06:47PM (3 children)
Maybe because not not all people are attention whores like Trump obviously is?
Oh please! What does that have to do with the price of rice?? Who is making you give Trump any of your attention?? What, is the channel knob broken? Well, maybe you should give it a little polish...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:58PM (1 child)
If a comment has 40% validity and 60% stupidity will you be unable to hear the criticism of the 60% due to your ego attaching itself to the 40%?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday January 29 2018, @08:36PM
If that is your choice...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @01:26AM
What is this "channel knob" of which you speak, and what is it used for?
"Trump the Loser Precedent"
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Monday January 29 2018, @06:35PM (3 children)
(Score: 2, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 29 2018, @10:03PM (2 children)
That's a really good point. I completely neglected to take into account the fact that Trump Derangement Syndrome almost exclusively afflicts those already suffering from severe narcissism.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @06:17PM (1 child)
Ooooh, ok. This explains why you hop in every trump bash-a-thon in a perverse type of defense and offense. "I think the guys is a total turd, but let me defend him for a while. Oh, and he did this thing over here which I prefer over crooked hillary!"
Heh, your issues go deeeeeep.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 30 2018, @09:37PM
I also don't like Pepsi very much but I prefer it to Diet Coke. Care to take some utterly illogical digs at that?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @06:45PM (4 children)
(Different AC)
Or, it could be true, you know.
It's gotten to the point where if Trump says "fake news," I automatically assume it is true. Typically if he has a real counterargument, he presents it, rather than acting like that annoying 2nd grader "I can't hear you, lalalalala."
I'll admit that my rule-of-thumb is not 100% accurate, but if you were to list everything, I'm guessing it's about 75% accurate. Everything from "largest crowd ever, in a non-rainy inauguration" to the arguments between him and Congressional leaders behind closed doors. I'd challenge you to compile a list [mediamatters.org] and check for yourself [axios.com].
Would you still call it Trump Derangement Syndrome when it is actually true?
(Score: 2, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday January 29 2018, @09:38PM
He will, because he's deranged :) And I am being dead serious here: projection, hypocrisy, willful ignorance, and utter amorality are the tools of the trade for anyone who wishes to retain the kind of worldview he does.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 29 2018, @09:43PM (2 children)
Which would make saying so redundant, what with it being said every tenth breath by anyone who does have Trump Derangement Syndrome.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @06:23PM (1 child)
And the point of your comment is...?
Oh right, no point. You're just a trump sucking cock lover with a serious case of closet mothballs.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 30 2018, @09:39PM
Did a regressive shitstain just go full-on homophobic on me? Why yes, I believe one did. So much for your ideals.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:03PM (6 children)
The thing is that The Donald just so happens to be right, just not for the reasons he thinks he's right. He doesn't go far enough either. It's mostly the stopped watch effect.
After watching the press over the past year push for World War 3, I came to the conclusion that it's all fake news. I believe we used to call it "propaganda" before everything had to be brought to a 3rd grade reading level. (Remember when we had more than just "bad guys?") The press is consistently focusing on tempests in teapots instead of issues that matter, such as 52% of white women who voted for Trump, such as the suicidal choices the DNC has made against its progressive base since November 2016 that will almost certainly hand the R team a huge victory this November (which is necessary to get World War 3 started).
That movie, The Post, is an excellent and timely propaganda piece meant to make us think that the news media of today is the same as the news media of the 70s.
Remember, #pizzagate happened, and we were all told that we had to clamp down on "fake news" because some idiot (who was likely a CIA plant anyway) took a "loli haet pizza" meme seriously. We were told that InfoWars and Breitbart were what "fake news" looked like. What we weren't told by the mainstream was that what fake news really looks like is progressive news sources such as World Socialist Web Site, CounterPunch, Black Agenda Report, Consortiumnews, MintPress News, etc.
Why are these news source "fake news?" Because if you start reading them, you'll start to question why we need World War 3 and why the USA is becoming a 3rd world country.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @08:04PM
lolololol
That has to be the best explanation as to why the infowars/breitbarters are such die hard morons. Please note that I am not saying your list of liberal sites is wrong, there is undoubtedly some fake shit rolling through there as well.
But god DAMN!
"Why are these news source "fake news?" Because if you start reading them, you'll start to question why we need World War 3 and why the USA is becoming a 3rd world country."
Sell someone a line that THEY are the chosen few who see the TRUTH and you have the start of a great cult following. You have been suckered, you are in a cult being played for chumps.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 29 2018, @09:55PM (4 children)
You seem to be confused about who was poking a bear and who's currently poking a small dog.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @04:25AM (3 children)
The only sides here are the elites and the rest of us.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 30 2018, @04:49AM (2 children)
Ask yourself this and then see how it affects that opinion: Does Trump play at all well with others?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @06:08PM (1 child)
Yes. Yes he does. He plays very well with people he wants something from.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 30 2018, @09:40PM
Compared to a rapist, I guess. Not to any civilized human being.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @06:07PM (1 child)
Yeah, this particular case is not hacking the election. It's "illegal investigative journalism" ;)
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 29 2018, @06:17PM
Personally, I hope they do it every four years from now on. And I hope western Europe does the same for the Republicans.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @03:12PM (1 child)
Went through the European press a few days ago. Chances are it is fake because:
1) The supposed workings of the Dutch security services would not have been released to the unwashed masses.
2) The US security services own the Dutch services, they already know what they are working on.
I am so glad Trump was elected. There were better candidates, but something has gone right when the plans of shadowy global Hillary supporters were foiled.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @03:24PM
bad troll is bad at trolling.
On the off-chance that you legitimately think your assertion has merit: nothing was released to unwashed masses by the Dutch, the US did that.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Monday January 29 2018, @04:00PM (16 children)
Oh, look, another story about interference and cheating in our elections. Trump is so cooked, but the Republicans won't stick the fork in. The wing nuts, racists, and fascists won't abandon him until the world is falling apart. The crooks will stand with him as long as there's more loot to be grabbed. Let's see, wing nuts, crooks, and uh, what other parts of the Republican party are there? The Free Market Kool Aid Drinkers? Holdovers who are still blind to the radical changes in the Republican Party, the complete 180 flip-flop in so many positions the Party Formerly of Lincoln has made in the last 50 years, you know, the whole Southern Strategy?
I suppose there are still a few sincere, principled Republicans, the ones who believe in personal responsibility and restraint with the free handouts and similar philosophies. And, oh yeah, the Rule of Law.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday January 29 2018, @04:05PM (5 children)
You forgot to mention the Log Cabin Republicans.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday January 29 2018, @04:13PM (1 child)
and Hitler.
Gotta Godwin by Godwinning.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 30 2018, @09:41PM
Well Godwin does have "win" right in the name...
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday January 29 2018, @04:13PM
The Log Cabin Republicans make no sense. It's like having a Black Caucus of the KKK (well, okay, BESIDES Clarence Thomas).
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by digitalaudiorock on Tuesday January 30 2018, @12:51AM (1 child)
He also forgot that growing group within the Republican leadership that seems hellbent on outdoing the history of Watergate by actively participating whole-hardheartedly in the cover up and the diversion. For me it's been a rather amazing thing to witness. I'm thinking that history will just those folks...the likes of that scumbag Devin Nunes...in a manner that will make Joseph McCarthy look like a fucking saint.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 30 2018, @05:37AM
That assumes there are any surviving historians. I have been feeling a horrible wrenching on the timeline over the last couple of weeks, like the bastards KNOW they're going down and they're going to take every last one of us with them...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:45PM
You keep using that word, "fascism". It does not mean what you think it means.
(Score: 1, Troll) by khallow on Monday January 29 2018, @05:05PM (4 children)
And look who then rants about Republicans for the rest of their post. Kool aid drinkers only care about interference and collusion when it happens to the other side.
Where's the evidence? I'll note the key problem - no evidence of illegal collusion (note that some forms of collusion would be legal, BTW) between the Trump campaign and anyone on the Russian side.
There are two points to bring up. First, it's easy to insinuate illegal collusion, but hard to show. Contacts with Russians are commonplace. They're a big country and most of the people involved would meet with a number of Russians routinely as part of their jobs. Similar links can be made to the Clintons, for example, a speaking engagement [snopes.com] by Bill Clinton which netted half a million dollars, was used as the basis for an accusation that Hillary Clinton was colluding with the Russians. Given that significant money was actually exchanged in Russia, that seems a somewhat less vapid basis for accusation than what's been geared against the Trump administration.
Another example is the infamous ATF "gunwalking" scandal [wikipedia.org]. Superficially, it's almost 2000 high quality weapons and perhaps more importantly, unchecked smuggling of said firearms (including who knows what with those firearms) into Mexico mostly to the Sinaloa cartel. Further, there probably have been dozens of contacts between the Sinaloa cartel and agents who were managing the gunwalking program over the two or so years it was in existence. Does that mean that some in the Obama administration was colluding with the Sinaloa cartel? While it's hard to show that Obama officials would have profited from such an arrangement, it's not hard to see how they would do so, via bribes or political advantage (for example, if it weren't for the blowback of a border agent dying in a firefight involving two of these weapons, the situation might have been used to rationalize gun control legislation).
There are more where those came from. One probably can find similar examples from any administration going back to the dawn of the US.
Notice the jump in logic that happens in each of these three cases. We have this vague sense of connection between political opponents and some outsider who benefits or might benefit from actions of the opponents. If that were enough to jail people, we would have sent a number of Obama officials to jail. It's not. Therefore, you need more than that in order to put people in prison for the alleged illegal collusion. Perhaps, this can be done though I see that no one has succeeded so far. The people currently indicted [wikipedia.org] have been either for actions they allegedly performed before becoming part of the campaign and subsequent administration or for lying to the FBI. (The two that have been charged with lying to the FBI have plead guilty, but not the rest.)
Past experience with such scandals indicates that they are unlikely to go anywhere. It's certainly not an adequate basis for a Trump supporter to change their mind.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @08:10PM (3 children)
Nice to see you ignore the last part: "I suppose there are still a few sincere, principled Republicans, the ones who believe in personal responsibility and restraint with the free handouts and similar philosophies. And, oh yeah, the Rule of Law."
Hey, how else would you justify yet another wall of bullshit? Perhaps instead of fighting the good (partisan) fight you should hear the valid points and incorporate them into a larger discussion where you can make your own valid points about scandals. We need to unearth the baddies, not fight each other.
Woops, I forgot, Khallow IS one of the baddies. No amount of logic and reason can fight a person's choice to be bad. You'll have to work doubly hard to convince anyone otherwise. Well except the other RWNJs that mod you up.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 30 2018, @03:10AM (2 children)
Of course, I did. It's just more of the same.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @06:15PM (1 child)
Which is the same reason we trash your nonsense over and over.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 30 2018, @11:48PM
And since the last bit wasn't sincere nor furthered any rational discussion, it should have been ignored. I then did so.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @12:10AM
Fascism sprung from Marxism; it's Leftism.
Do you people not know your history?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @04:14AM (2 children)
Fascism sprung from Marxism; it's Leftism.
Do you people not know your history?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @06:47PM (1 child)
Lookit this asshole, wants to kill all the left handed people.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 30 2018, @09:42PM
Well, they are pretty sinister.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @05:30PM (1 child)
The Netherlands has landed super deep discounts on next gen American military hardware. These discounts are to be subsidized by U.S. taxpayers. The Pentagon declined to comment, but laughs and whitehouse jokes could be heard from behind closed doors. Later the DNC returns from the Pentagon after promising to halt existing audits, and is rumored to be in desperate need of chapstick.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @08:14PM
You realize that in this case it is the GOP that has been sucking the MIC's cock? All I can hear is Putin's laughter as he makes his favorite worm squirm.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @08:02PM
If "hacking of the Democratic Party" is "interference with the American elections", then we can conclude that the democratic party has improper control of the American elections. Messing around with an individual party is not supposed to be able to affect the vote tally.
Of course, given how the votes went in Florida's Broward county, one might suspect this to be the case. If so, then the fact that democrats messed with the vote counts is a far bigger issue.