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posted by janrinok on Thursday May 10, @01:02PM   Printer-friendly
from the what-a-difference-a-few-weeks-make dept.

Two bits of news from Asia, widely covered elsewhere. However, are we beginning to see a peace dividend as a result of the thawing in relationships between North and South Korea?

American prisoners held in North Korea on their way home after Pompeo visit, Trump says

"Three American prisoners held in North Korea have been released and are en route to the U.S. after a surprise diplomatic mission by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, President Trump announced Wednesday. " foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/09/american-prisoners-held-in-north-korea-on-their-way-home-after-pompeo-visit-trump-says.html

[Ed Note: They should be back in the US by now although I have not seen any direct reporting of this at the time of editing this story. Anyway, welcome back guys!]

Update: North Korea summit: Trump greets freed US detainees

China, Japan, South Korea open three-way summit

"China, South Korea and Japan have begun their first trilateral summit in more than two years.

[...] They are expected to take up the recent flurry of developments on the Korean peninsula. North Korean leader Kim Jong Un met Moon on April 27 and Chinese President Xi Jinping earlier this week.

Abe said he hopes North Korea will give up its nuclear weapons in a complete and irreversible way.

Li said China is willing to work with Japan and South Korea to maintain regional stability.

The three-way summit is supposed to happen annually, but hasn't been held since November 2015 because of tense relations between Japan and China." foxnews.com/world/2018/05/08/latest-china-japan-south-korea-open-three-way-summit.html


Original Submission #1Original Submission #2

Related Stories

North Korea Pauses Plans for Summit 45 comments

North Korea warns it may cancel summit with Trump if it has to give up nukes

A senior North Korean official warned Wednesday that Pyongyang may cancel its summit meeting between Kim Jong Un and President Trump scheduled for June 12 in Singapore, if it is going to be pushed into giving up its nuclear arsenal.

If the Trump administration pressures Pyongyang to unilaterally abandon its nuclear weapons, North Korea would have to reconsider the summit, Vice Foreign Minister Kim Kye Gwan said in a statement carried by the official KCNA news agency.

[...] The news came hours after the North canceled a high-level meeting with South Korean officials that was scheduled for Wednesday, citing a joint military exercise as the reason. In its earlier statement, KCNA claimed that the U.S. and South Korea's joint air drill, which began on Friday, was "a bid to make a preemptive airstrike at the DPRK and win the air."

See also:

Previously: Peace Dividend?


Original Submission

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  • (Score: -1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @01:34PM (31 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @01:34PM (#677838)

    Don't be mentioning that Trump might have pushed North Korea towards peace with his bellicose rhetoric. That will make our snowflake millennials' heads explode. They need to keep their righteous indignation anger peaked. After all, our Nobel Peace Prize president only managed to get Jack Shit from North Korea.

    • (Score: 1, Redundant) by Gaaark on Thursday May 10, @01:42PM

      by Gaaark (41) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 10, @01:42PM (#677843) Homepage Journal

      My thoughts exactly: Obama won because.......

      Trump should win as much as Obama.

      And THAT isn't really saying much.

      --
      --- That's not flying: that's... falling... with more luck than I have. ---
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @01:49PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @01:49PM (#677845)

      What have you got against righteous indignation?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Righteous_indignation [wikipedia.org]
      "In some Christian doctrines, righteous anger is considered the only form of anger which is not sinful, e.g., when Jesus drove the money lenders out of the temple (Gospel of Matthew 21)."

      My prediction? Trump will grandstand, but after a few years (possibly after the next US presidential election) it will become clear that nothing really changed except that the USA wasted some more money in Asia. Little Kim has all his skin in this game--for the long haul. Trump not so much.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @08:55PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @08:55PM (#678115)

        My prediction: Kim will get to keep his nukes, and Trump will get to build golf courses in North Korea. A win-win situation!

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by isostatic on Thursday May 10, @01:52PM (7 children)

      by isostatic (365) on Thursday May 10, @01:52PM (#677848) Journal

      So your argument is that Trump played a game of chicken, and that forced China to step in and push for a return to more cordial relations not seen since 2010ish?

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by bzipitidoo on Thursday May 10, @05:56PM (6 children)

        by bzipitidoo (4388) on Thursday May 10, @05:56PM (#678026) Journal

        Richard Nixon pulled that one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory [wikipedia.org]

        It's dangerous as hell. What do you do if the adversaries call the bluff? Back down or double down? What if the adversaries keep pushing until the only choice is "put up or shut up"? The scariest part is that with all the blustering and lying, a fatal misunderstanding would be all too easy to make.

        Another instructive bit of history is the insecure manner of the George W. Bush administration. They knew they had a bunch of posers among them, such as "heck of a job Brownie". Even the Dunning-Kruger effect, strong though it was among the dimmest witted of them (such as George Deutsch), wasn't enough for them to feel like they could do the job. They feared they would not be taken seriously, were very touchy about that, and reacted by doing all kinds of damage of which the biggest was the 2003 War in Iraq. The way Rumsfeld ran that show is revealing. He wouldn't listen to cautionary notes that he was asking for too much, kept insisting he was right and the military could do more with less. He's the kind of asshole who would completely overlook the fact that Iraq fell in a stunningly short "shock and awe" time of just 3 weeks, fast enough to make the German blitzkrieg of Poland in 1939 look a bit slow by comparison, grumbling that the military was too slow. Rummy got away with his audacious shorts during the invasion, but it blew up on him during the occupation, when he insisted 100,000 troops was enough to occupy all of Iraq in the face of advice that it would take 500,000. Even after that, they were still breast beating and needed to be reassured that the world did indeed believe that if they wanted to, they would go to war again.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @06:30PM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @06:30PM (#678040)

          The USA is uniquely capable of maintaining a high-functioning economy without outside help. We have significant imports and exports in an absolute sense, but relative to our economy they are not so big. Most nations have a much stronger need for imports and/or exports. We are a highly diversified economy. From oil to computer chips, we do it all. China isn't like that. China would be in deep trouble without us.

          We're pretty damn good at war too. There are only 2 potential adversaries, Russia and China, that would give our war machine a case of mild indigestion. Everybody else is trivial to mow down.

          The alternative to what you claim is "madman theory" is certain failure. Obama couldn't negotiate worth a damn because every opponent knew his cards.

          • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday May 10, @06:43PM

            The US has lots of fabless semiconductor firms but not many fabs

            --
            Remember: Soggy Jobs is your one stop shop for fake jobs that don't exist.
          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by isostatic on Thursday May 10, @08:07PM (3 children)

            by isostatic (365) on Thursday May 10, @08:07PM (#678086) Journal

            We're pretty damn good at war too. There are only 2 potential adversaries, Russia and China, that would give our war machine a case of mild indigestion. Everybody else is trivial to mow down.

            India, Pakistan, North Korea, UK, France, Israel all have nukes. That's somewhat more than a 'case of mild indigestion'.

            • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday May 11, @12:10AM (2 children)

              by Thexalon (636) on Friday May 11, @12:10AM (#678196) Homepage

              Some people are under the delusion that they are likely to survive an all-out nuclear war. They are very wrong about that.

              Even with, say, India and Pakistan going at it, they have enough firepower to cause nuclear winter, which interrupts everybody's food supplies, which means we're all likely to be dead. And no, you are not likely to have access to a shelter sufficiently supplied to keep you alive, and if you do have access to such a shelter you can be pretty well guaranteed to be attacked by at least a few thousand of the desperate people that don't have anywhere to go and nothing to lose by trying.

              --
              A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of bad gravy.
              • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Friday May 11, @12:58PM (1 child)

                by isostatic (365) on Friday May 11, @12:58PM (#678342) Journal

                And even if you had such a shelter, and it was well defended or remote that nobody would get there, what kind of life would that be?

                Forget the nuclear winter, just a dozen nukes on the eastern seaboard would cause a massive change in lifestyle for the U.S.

                You don't win a nuclear war, at most you lose less than the other site.

                • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday May 11, @06:44PM

                  by Thexalon (636) on Friday May 11, @06:44PM (#678520) Homepage

                  Part of my point is that the US doesn't even need to get close to being hit in order for nuclear war to be a big problem for USAians. As another example, if Israel nuked Iran into the ground and nobody retaliated, that would also do enough to trigger serious problems for everybody else.

                  --
                  A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of bad gravy.
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by quietus on Thursday May 10, @01:56PM

      by quietus (6328) on Thursday May 10, @01:56PM (#677852)

      Let's see which lessons we can take away here.

      1. If you want to avoid invasion, get nukes.
      2. Once you start your WMD program, never, ever, stop it -- agreements with the West to stop such a program can be overturned at any moment.
      3. If you want to avoid invasion and avoid crippling trade embargoes, make sure you demonstrate something like ICBM capability to reach the United States.
      4. Round it off with a bit of applause by releasing a couple of foolish tourists.

      Congrats, you are now a valid member of the nuclear anti-proliferation community!

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Thursday May 10, @01:57PM (9 children)

      by takyon (881) Subscriber Badge <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Thursday May 10, @01:57PM (#677853) Journal

      Trump is a liar [bloomberg.com], and so is Rocket Man.

      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/991843153953964033 [twitter.com]

      This is not the first time North Korea has released hostages. They sent Otto Warmbier [wikipedia.org] back to Trump in a coma. Bill Clinton got Euna Lee and Laura Ling released intact back in 2009. Kim may just be sacrificing a couple of pawns in order to stall longer and make the peace talks look genuine.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @02:13PM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @02:13PM (#677859)

        From the Bloomberg link -- Trump tweeted:
        > As everybody is aware, the past Administration has long been asking for three hostages to be released from a North Korean Labor camp, but to no avail. Stay tuned!
        8:53 PM - May 2, 2018

        Bloomberg > The problem? “Of the three prisoners only one, Kim Dong-cheol, a South Korean-born American pastor, was detained during the previous Obama administration.” The other two were detained last spring when Donald Trump was in the White House.

        Trump lies all the time. This one strikes me as unusually insidious, however. To begin with, there’s something concrete and specific about it. It’s one thing to say that the economy sprung to life after Trump took office, even if statistics say that there’s not much change since the late Barack Obama years; one can certainly make a case for it, even if it requires a little cherry-picking of the right indicators. It’s a little different and worse to say that Obama failed to win the release of “three hostages” when two of them weren’t detained until he left office.

        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @04:32PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @04:32PM (#677979)

          It’s a little different and worse to say that Obama failed to win the release of “three hostages” when two of them weren’t detained until he left office.

          B-b-b-but! He should have done more to get them released! Alex Jones said so!

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday May 10, @06:22PM (2 children)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday May 10, @06:22PM (#678036) Journal

          Not to mention the fact that Obama got 2 hostages released in 2009 and took a bunch of crap from the right over it because he was "negotiating with terrorists." [mcclatchydc.com]

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by cmdrklarg on Thursday May 10, @09:27PM (1 child)

            by cmdrklarg (5048) on Thursday May 10, @09:27PM (#678130)

            Obama could have walked on water, cured the sick, and turned water into wine and would still have taken crap from the right.

            --
            THE SOFTWARE, IT NO WORKY!
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @10:33PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @10:33PM (#678152)

              Jesus did all of this. And the right could care about the poor as Jesus would. The right are so far from Christ it isn't funny. They cloak this with a feeble anti abortion push. But many fetuses naturally abort and shows God doesn't worry about fetuses. No verse in the bible does either.

              So if Barak did all of that and is half black (insert a southern ladies gasp here) oh the horror.

              To bad Barak wasnt change and did none of those. Including giving a rats ass about the poor.

              We won't do Christ justice til the narrative changes and the poor are seen as possible to save. All of them.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @02:33PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @02:33PM (#677882)

        A room with one person and a mirror contains 2 lairs.

        • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @03:40PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @03:40PM (#677922)

          What is in the other lair, a lion perhaps?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @04:21PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @04:21PM (#677966)

            Never trust a lair. Never.

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday May 10, @06:18PM

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday May 10, @06:18PM (#678034) Journal

        Bill Clinton got Euna Lee and Laura Ling released intact back in 2009

        "Despite decades of bipartisan U.S. rhetoric about not negotiating with terrorists for the release of hostages, it seems that the Obama administration not only chose to negotiate, but to send a former president to do so,"

        "The reporters' arrest, show trial and subsequent imprisonment (twelve years hard labor) was hostage taking, essentially an act of state terrorism,"
        "So the Clinton trip is a significant propaganda victory for North Korea, whether or not he carried an official message from President Obama.”

          --Trump's National Security Adviser John Bolton, who doesn't seem to mind propaganda victories anymore

    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday May 10, @03:54PM (1 child)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday May 10, @03:54PM (#677938) Journal

      He only managed to put the brakes on a far more credible nuke program in Iran. What an asshole!

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @04:53PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @04:53PM (#677991)

        ... where by "put the brakes on" we mean "legalize and fund it."

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @04:10PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @04:10PM (#677953)

      Oh you poor idiot stuck neck deep in a hate filled swamp. I'll pray for you and your family.

    • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by VLM on Thursday May 10, @04:20PM (2 children)

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 10, @04:20PM (#677965)

      It is kinda of humorous that the only opposition to Trump in the entire world seems to be out of touch Massachusetts liberal cat lady archetypes. And they don't even have the self awareness that the more they publicly hate him, the more the entire rest of the world likes him because of who hates him.

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @05:44PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @05:44PM (#678019)

      Don't be mentioning that Trump might have pushed North Korea towards peace with his bellicose rhetoric. That will make our snowflake millennials' heads explode. They need to keep their righteous indignation anger peaked. After all, our Nobel Peace Prize president only managed to get Jack Shit from North Korea.

      Who the fuck modded me Flamebait? This was clearly a Troll post and a damn successful one too if I might add. Thanks to all for playing.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @06:28PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @06:28PM (#678038)

        Don't get mad when your shitty trolling is taken seriously, roll with the punches and lament your own ability to impersonate the crazies around here.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @09:02PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @09:02PM (#678120)

      As far as "credit", I believe the change is because NK's weapons actually work now. The first impact of that is that NK has more negotiation power now.

      Second, the West can threaten to starve their population to stop WMD's without looking like heartless jerks. The counter-threats thus also carry more weight.

  • (Score: 5, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Thursday May 10, @01:50PM (5 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 10, @01:50PM (#677846) Journal

    So, these guys have been in captivity for awhile. They don't get newspapers delivered. No interwebs. No radio or television. Nada.

    Official, "Welcome aboard, guys, we'll be back in the States in a few hours. Some things you need to know. The President will be there to greet you."

    Former Prisoner, "OHH, just who IS the president?"

    Off, "Donald Trump is the president now. . . .

    FP, "Huh-uh! You're pulling our legs! Who is really the president?"

    Off, "I told you, Donald Trump is president."

    FP, "You mean, 'The Apprentice' Donald Trump? Or is this someone we've never heard of?"

    Off, "That's the guy, 'You're Fired', with the orange head and the skin condition."

    FP, "So, there was some kind of catastrophe, and every single person in the United States who might have been qualified to hold the office has died?"

    Off, "Oh, no, Trump beat out a dozen or so Republicans for the nomination, then beat Hillary Clinton in the election."

    The former prisoners look at each other. "There had to be a catastrophe if the two biggest ass-clowns in the world were competing for the office of president. We might want to turn around, and go back to North Korea."

    --
    #eatyourliver #WalkAway #CTRLLeft
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @03:10PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @03:10PM (#677899)

      Off, "Donald Trump is the president now. . . .

      Kim Hak-seong and Kim Sang-deok: "Still?"

      Kim Hak-seong and Kim Sang-deok, both working as academics at Pyongyang’s University of Science and Technology were arrested last year on suspicion of “hostile acts” during heightened tensions with Washington over North Korea’s rapidly advancing nuclear and weapons programmes.

      (source [telegraph.co.uk])

      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @04:26PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @04:26PM (#677971)

        Off, "Donald Trump is the president now. . . .

        Kim Hak-seong and Kim Sang-deok: "Still?"

        Tut, tut, tut! You are trampling all over alt-right talking points. You should be ashamed of yourself!

    • (Score: 4, Touché) by Thexalon on Thursday May 10, @04:09PM (2 children)

      by Thexalon (636) on Thursday May 10, @04:09PM (#677952) Homepage

      Can't help but be reminded of this conversation:

      Doc Brown: Tell me, Future Boy, who's President of the United States in 1985?
      Marty McFly: Ronald Reagan.
      Doc: Ronald Reagan? The actor? Ha! Then who's vice-president, Jerry Lewis? I suppose Jane Wyman is the First Lady?

      Of course, now we have Biff Tannen as president.

      --
      A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of bad gravy.
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Thursday May 10, @04:24PM (1 child)

        by takyon (881) Subscriber Badge <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Thursday May 10, @04:24PM (#677968) Journal

        According to BTTF, if a time traveler fixes this timeline, we'll all cease to exist.

        Therefore, long live God Emperor Donald "Mad Dog Jesus 2.0 Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Tannen" Trump.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @05:31PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @05:31PM (#678016)

          Hey don't bring Camacho into this, that guy actually gave a shit about his country.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @05:05PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 10, @05:05PM (#677996)

    The US is making it clear that they don't want to deal with conflicts between China, Japan, the Koreas, and Taiwan. The next step for everyone involved is to nuke up. That is the only way for South Korea and Japan to defend against North Korea, and for Taiwan to prevent a Chinese invasion.

  • (Score: 2, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Thursday May 10, @10:25PM (1 child)

    by realDonaldTrump (6614) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 10, @10:25PM (#678149) Homepage Journal

    To the three released prisoners I say: You're welcome. Go out and give a big Thank You to President Xi Jinping of China who your release possible and, HAVE A GREAT LIFE! Be careful, there are many pitfalls on the long and winding road of life. Enjoy! pic.twitter.com/hISaCI95CB [t.co]

    By the way, the HIGHLY anticipated meeting between Kim Jong Un and myself will take place in Singapore on June 12th. We will both try to make it a VERY SPECIAL moment for World Peace!

    --
    #StopTheBias [twitter.com]
    • (Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Friday May 11, @12:25PM

      by realDonaldTrump (6614) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 11, @12:25PM (#678327) Homepage Journal

      (cont) We want to thank Kim Jong-un, who really was EXCELLENT to these three incredible people! They are really three incredible people. And the fact that we were able to get them out so soon was really a tribute to a lot of things, including a certain process that’s taking place right now.

      --
      #StopTheBias [twitter.com]
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