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posted by janrinok on Sunday May 13, @03:39AM   Printer-friendly
from the I-don't-agree-with-it,-but-I-will-defend-your-right-to-say-it dept.

[janrinok] For those of you who do not want to read about the 'extremes' of US politics (alt-right or left-wing) I suggest that you skip this story and wait for the next one. If you feel that we shouldn't publish any story that does not accord with your own, probably less extreme, views then perhaps you should remind yourself that we try to give everyone in our community the benefit of free speech and we do not intentionally censor or promote any particular view or political leaning. Of course, you are welcome to contribute your own comments in the subsequent discussion that will follow.

This MSNBC Guest Just Showed Why The Intellectual Dark Web Exists

On Tuesday, The New York Times’ Bari Weiss appeared on MSNBC’s Morning Joe to discuss her new in-depth piece on the so-called Intellectual Dark Web – an agglomeration of thinkers from all sides of the political aisle who have been cast out by political correctness and now converse with one another regularly and publicly (full disclosure: I’m a charter member, along with friends including Sam Harris, Eric Weinstein, Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, and others). The entire premise of the IDW is that many on the Left refuse to acknowledge good-natured disagreement; instead, all disagreement must be due to nefarious evil on the part of those who disagree.

Proving the point on MSNBC was guest Eddie Glaude Jr., chair at the Center for African-American Studies at Princeton. When Weiss cited the discussions between me and Sam as evidence for the diversity of the movement, Glaude responded, “What allows you to describe these folks as intellectuals of sort? Let me say it differently. They’re connected intellectually by what common commitments? So you might have different ideological spaces, but when you talk about Sam Harris and Ben Shapiro in one sentence, I can see the connection between those two.” Weiss responded, logically enough, “Which is?” And Glaude explained:

Having something to do with how they think about race, having something to do with how they think about diversity in the country and the ways in which diversity is talked about, right? The way in which they think about political correctness. Weiss responded, “Yeah, they’re anti-identity politics, for sure.”

To which Glaude launched into a full defense of identity politics: “Identity politics is a phrase that kind of is a red herring. Identity politics is just simply questions of justice, right?”

At this point, Joe Scarborough jumped in and hit the nail directly on the head:

Eddie, you have just made Bari Weiss's point, that you disagree with the way Bari Weiss views the world, so you're going to help her view the world more the way you view the world. The entire purpose of the exercise is to have honest conversations with people, and to not question their morality, or their wisdom just because they don't view the world exactly the same way that you do.

The "Intellectual Dark Web," Explained: What Jordan Peterson has in Common with the Alt-Right

Bari Weiss, an opinion writer and editor at the New York Times, created a stir this week with a long article on a group that calls itself the "Intellectual Dark Web." The coinage referred to a loose collective of intellectuals and media personalities who believe they are "locked out" of mainstream media, in Weiss's words, and who are building their own ways to communicate with readers.

The thinkers profiled included the neuroscientist and prominent atheist writer Sam Harris, the podcaster Dave Rubin, and University of Toronto psychologist and Chaos Dragon maven Jordan Peterson.

Some assertions in the piece deserved the ridicule. But Weiss accurately captured a genuine perception among the people she is writing about (and, perhaps, for). They do feel isolated and marginalized, and with some justification. However, the reasons are quite different from those suggested by Weiss. She asserts that they have been marginalized because of their willingness to take on all topics and their determination not to "[parrot] what's politically convenient."

The truth is rather that dark web intellectuals, like Donald Trump supporters and the online alt-right, have experienced a sharp decline in their relative status over time. This is leading them to frustration and resentment.

[janrinok] And another contribution from Ari reviews Amanda Marcotte's new book:

Birth of a "Troll Nation": Amanda Marcotte on How and Why Conservatives Embraced the Dark Side

Interview at Salon with author Amanda Marcotte:

I had no role in editing Amanda Marcotte's new book, which bears the amusing and highly appropriate title, "Troll Nation: How the Right Became Trump-Worshipping Monsters Set on Rat-F*cking Liberals, America, and Truth Itself." None of it previously appeared in Salon, to be clear;

But "Troll Nation" is not about the election of Donald Trump. Amanda and I have certain areas of cheerfully-expressed political disagreement, but I think we share the view that Trump was the culmination of a long process, or is the most visible symptom of a widespread infection. Amanda's analysis is, as always, calm, sharp-witted and clearly focused on available evidence. American conservatives, she says, used to make rational arguments and used to present a positive social vision. Did those arguments make sense, in the end? Did that "Morning in America" vision of the Reagan years conceal a vibrant undercurrent of bigotry?

[...] How we got from the supercilious, upper-crust conservatism of William F. Buckley Jr., the dictionary definition of an elitist -- the dude could read and write Latin, for God's sake -- to the delusional ignorance of Alex Jones and #Pizzagate, the small-minded hatred of Charlottesville and the unquenchable thirst for "liberal tears" is one of the darkest mysteries of our time. It's also the story of "Troll Nation."


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by idiot_king on Sunday May 13, @03:50AM (15 children)

    by idiot_king (6587) on Sunday May 13, @03:50AM (#679064)

    This thread is going to get really bad really quick.
    I just want to point out a few things first:
    1. The "Intellectual Dark Web" was a joke term coined by Eric Weinstein, one of the head cronies of Thiel Capital to distinguish between his loose-knit cabal of "intellectuals" that were essentially anti-PC, i.e., anti-progressivism.
    2. It is often times, and probably rightfully so, conflated with Alt-Right thinkers and the now-forgotten "Dark Enlightenment" thinkers of yore, and for good reason as most of them belong together for pretending to be provocative thinkers but really just being provocative.
    3. They are not really breaking any new ground as much as repackaging ideas and serving them via a capitalist-force-fed tube via high publicity talks a la Jordan Peterson/Dave Rubin and various YouTube/Patreon moneygrabs.
    4. They say they champion free speech but they are constantly playing the victim when it suits them. This is the most frustrating part as they can take a clip of an event where people are ACTUALLY fighting for equality and tar and feather them as caricatures and walking, breathing strawmen/ad hom arguments.

    • (Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @04:09AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @04:09AM (#679068)

      Everyone who disagrees with Me can just DIE.

      • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Captival on Sunday May 13, @05:20PM

        by Captival (6866) on Sunday May 13, @05:20PM (#679231)

        Hillary,what are you doing here? I thought you were in Australia grifting money.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by The Vocal Minority on Sunday May 13, @05:01AM (4 children)

      by The Vocal Minority (2765) on Sunday May 13, @05:01AM (#679079)

      OK I'll play. I've watched a lot of Jordan Peterson's material and some of Sam Harris.
      1. Even if this is true (i.e. the term was used by this person), who cares?
      2. Similar to your first point this is just an attempt to smear by labelling, "naturally they get confused with neo-Nazis because they are!". Also "pretending to be provocative thinkers but really just being provocative" what is this supposed to mean LOL!
      3. Not sure about Sam Harris but Jordan Peterson's work is very original. I'm somewhat familiar with the field and he takes a lot of contemporary psychology research and applies it to some of the more interesting psychology grand narratives, particularly Jungian psychology. I really like his model of the interaction of mythic storytelling with observed behaviour - it may not be wrong!
      4. I've not really seen this is in the material I'm familiar with, perhaps you could provide some links? Who are these people that are "ACTUALLY" fighting for equality?

      Frankly I don't think you have engaged with any of this material yourself and have simply formed a view based upon reporting in other media, but happy to be proven wrong.

      Also editors - I think there is a missing link to the first aristarchus article which I would like to read - can you please fix (if it is actually missing and I'm not just being dense)?

      • (Score: 2) by Fnord666 on Sunday May 13, @05:38AM

        by Fnord666 (652) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 13, @05:38AM (#679097)

        Also editors - I think there is a missing link to the first aristarchus article which I would like to read - can you please fix (if it is actually missing and I'm not just being dense)?

        Good catch. It was indeed missing and has been added. - fnord

      • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday May 13, @08:31AM (2 children)

        Woody Guthrie

        --
        "MICHAEL DAVID CRAWFORD IS A LYING MOTHERFUCKER."
        -- Anonymous Coward
        • (Score: 2, Touché) by The Vocal Minority on Sunday May 13, @10:07AM (1 child)

          by The Vocal Minority (2765) on Sunday May 13, @10:07AM (#679134)

          So when has Harris, Peterson, Rubin or Shapiro shown a video of Woody Guthrie so as to "tar and feather" him?

          • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:19PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:19PM (#679259)

            You don't follow his logic.

            He just pulled an older than most of us rabbit out of his hat.

            So I will repeat his logic again.

            Woodie Guthrie.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday May 13, @10:53AM (5 children)

      You've never actually sat and listened to any of the people you're shitting on, have you? There's nothing remotely alt-right about their views and they go into extreme detail on every position they hold and precisely why they hold it. They take it to the point of being boring as hell to listen to for more than a few minutes. Think about it a while and it should occur to you that this is far more in line with the definition of intellectualism than angrily condemning anyone who disagrees with them as being hatemongers.

      --
      Cobra Kai
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @01:19PM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @01:19PM (#679175)

        Does Jordan Peterson go into extreme detail on why he thinks fornication is destroying civilization? Why he thinks he's going to live happily every after in Neverland?

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kktI8-lZw8 [youtube.com]

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday May 13, @02:46PM (3 children)

          I expect so but he doesn't really need to. It's simple fact that being raised in a single parent home is an extremely strong indicator of future poverty. You though have obviously never listened to anything but other people reporting on him using out of context sound bytes.

          --
          Cobra Kai
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @04:00PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @04:00PM (#679212)

            Maybe the strong indicator is "single carousel riding urban poor women".
            Single parents with access to insurance money and alimony show no particular indication to not give their kids at least an average launch.

          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday May 14, @06:42AM

            by c0lo (156) on Monday May 14, @06:42AM (#679448)

            Does Jordan Peterson go into extreme detail on why he thinks fornication is destroying civilization?

            It's simple fact that being raised in a single parent home is an extremely strong indicator of future poverty.

            Ah, if we could only had some contraceptives available, so that sex outside marriage doesn't necessary ends in children raised by a single parent.
            I just can't wait 'til the 1960-ies and the sexual revolution, when those contraceptives will become cheap and available to the public.. I just can already for foresee it, there'll be 'Make love not war" all around.

    • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday May 13, @05:47PM

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 13, @05:47PM (#679238)

      This thread is going to get really bad really quick.

      Looks like we are both pleasantly surprised!

      --
      It's always my fault...
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Sunday May 13, @11:42PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 13, @11:42PM (#679363)

      Having been thru all this, you could summarize #1 thru #4 inclusive as pre-2010 small letter l libertarianism, where a large fraction of the population hemorrhaged out into somewhat diverse, newer viewpoints.

      Find a "new right" old timer and scratch them and you'll find an old small l (or large L) libertarian, often enough. Lots of stagnant infighting, this hasn't worked for decades, this just isn't going to work any time soon, so what should we do instead?

      Also all religions have a failure rate at indoctrination... plenty of former leftists who saw their indoctrination as BS and essentially some "new right" people are progressive atheists, in the sense of atheist from progressivism as a religious doctrine rather than the more popular legacy meaning of atheists from Christianity who merely coincidentally also happen to be progressives. There are no small number of new right people who have some kind of "I was a sinner then I came to Jesus" style of story where they were shitty rich with college kid antifa types and they finally stopped smoking pot long enough to realize it was BS so then ...

      Finally another large sector of New Right comes from the short term takeover of the Republican party by the neocons. The problem with neoconservatism is its a single issue party, Israel First, regardless of how much window dressing and PR is applied it is in reality a single issue group, and single issue parties always sink, stink, and repel everyone. So a couple endless wars in the middle east later, and you end up with /pol/ electing Trump, kinda sorta. Republican in the sense of 70s or 80s doesn't exist anymore, there's new right, there's some RINO cucks no one listens to except dying legacy media, and the "Israel First-ers" in the neocon wing, and thats it. So if you're not a RINO or willing to destroy America to save Israel, there really isn't anything remaining but the new right.

      I mean, what outcome would you expect other than the "new right" if you have a stagnant dying rebellion party, religious rebels against progressivism as a religion have no other place to go, and everyone vaguely Republican who wasn't a single issue "Israel First-er" got kicked out of the R party. These people are going to hang out and find a path of their own, which they've done a pretty good job of so far despite being heckled all the way.

      Old left legacy media always goes clickbait on "who are the new right" type of stories. Hopefully the above is an interesting viewpoint from the inside that isn't mere clickbait.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @03:53AM (12 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @03:53AM (#679065)

    Don't believe me ?

    Just TRY to have a reasoned discussion with a leftist SJW. You will discover they are less rational than the average house cat.

    *
    *

    Anyone who would attempt to claim that only "alt-right" people stifle intelligent discussion has an agenda, and if you don't recognize that agenda, you are ripe for being victimized by their bullshit propaganda.

    *
    *

    To everyone, I suggest a wholly different strategy :

    Accept only that which you can verify, and think for yourself rather than mindlessly gobbling up bullshit from some third party. Few if any "news" sources are unbiased, and as such they should be viewed accordingly.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Sunday May 13, @04:10AM (8 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 13, @04:10AM (#679069)

      So, instead of being part of the blame game, you're going to help her view the world more the way you view the world. The entire purpose of the exercise is to have honest conversations with people, and to not question their morality, or their wisdom just because they don't view the world exactly the same way that you do.

      I didn't edit this piece while pointing the finger at any one side - you did that. Only 2 posts in and we are already choosing sides and building the barriers. How about you construct a sensible, logical argument countering what has been written and then present it here, so that others can judge your opinions on their merits?

      --
      It's always my fault...
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by xhedit on Sunday May 13, @05:30AM (7 children)

        by xhedit (6669) on Sunday May 13, @05:30AM (#679091)

        It doesn't really matter how you edited it, the whole premise is going to cause left/right tribal warfare because it's about giving the alt-right room to maybe have a discussion instead of yelling NAZI at them.

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by jmorris on Sunday May 13, @04:41PM (6 children)

          Which is really dangerous. I am NRx / alt-right and I'm seeing a dangerous trend, have noted it several times here in the past. After decades of everyone on the Right being shouted down as Nazis by people who generally don't even really know what it means other than "enemy" or a synonym for "evil", it is losing it's power. Seriously, if Reagan and both Bushes are Nazis, if milquetoast Mittens "Yuppie personified" Romney is a Nazi, it isn't that extreme an insult. So while initially the Internet "Nazis" like Andrew Anglin's DailyStormer bunch were mostly "ironic Nazis" trolling people with Nazi imagery to get an overreaction; the Anime Nazis were jokes in poor taste. After realizing that it doesn't matter, if you aren't on the Left you are going to be called a Nazi, a lot of people went onto a spectrum of just not caring on one end and trying out the stylish Hugo Boss look as a way of saying "Fuck you." But it ain't ironic anymore; I'm seeing real Nazis now. Actual goosestepping guys who read Hitler's damned book not just to understand how it could have happened but to make it happen again. None of this could have happened without the Left renormalizing Nazis.

          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:42PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:42PM (#679267)

            Look at the Nazi lamenting how his preferred ideology is losing its bite. So sad.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @08:30PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @08:30PM (#679296)

              Poor jmorris! First was that girl in college, and now this. Even if you disagree with everything jmorris writes, you still have to pity him, and not just for his intellectual shortcomings.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @10:22PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @10:22PM (#679331)

                your effing dangerous... your helpimg converting a rational altrigthertr to a Nazi. He voiced a concern you retorted an insult

                • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 14, @02:27AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 14, @02:27AM (#679398)

                  your helpimg converting a rational altrigthertr to a Nazi.

                  And you, upstanding AC, are forcing us all to strain and exert ourselves with your atrocious typing! Of course, this is dangerous, but it is the only way to reach someone like jmorris. All these new rightists are not, as you erroneously claim, rational. They are emotionally reacting to the rejection of their values by society at large. At first they are surprised and shocked at this, like a racist hanging onto the "fact" that Blacks commit more crime, and not understanding why no one else understands the logical implications of his racism. But then they turn bitter, and double down. Rational discussion is gone at the point.

                  So here is where janrinok is making a mistake. The alt-right is a troll nation, and the only two responses to trolls are starvation (Do not feed!) and ridicule. Either of these tactics run the risk of further alienation and moving the deplorable to a more extreme position. Just look at Runaway, for gawd's sake! Used to be just a run-o-the-mill redneck. But once we get them to publicly threaten or engage in violence, then they are not just extreme, they are criminal. This has happened a lot since Charlottesville. And then we send them to the big house, so they can become a member of a nice prison-based white supremacist social club, and we can track them if and when they are released.

          • (Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday May 13, @10:28PM (1 child)

            by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 13, @10:28PM (#679332)

            All of my life, ALL Republicans have been "literally Hitler". So maybe uncle Adolf was not that bad?

            • (Score: 1, Troll) by jmorris on Monday May 14, @03:02AM

              Yea, that is the problem. If a critical mass go, "Fuck it! Nazi time!" things get real. And chimping out like that ain't likely to end better than the last time. If you have read history, it is pretty easy to see how Germany found itself in a position where they would see the Nazis as the lesser of two evils, but the point is when you make that choice you still get evil. Better to avoid getting into such a desperate position.

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @04:52AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @04:52AM (#679077)

      Wow. Where to start with this nonsense. I'm sure it's a troll, but hey, why not?

      Anyone, ANYONE, who uses the the acronym "SJW" immediately identifies themselves as a worthless piece of racist trash unworthy of recognition. Sure, take your free speech all the way to unemployment and social ostracization. But don't worry, white male, you can always get your precious guns and kill tens of others out of frustration that your small mind couldn't conceive the realities of life - that you're not special, that you aren't owed anything, and that, as a white male, all of the things that went wrong in your pathetic life are all your fault. That you, with the massive advantages afforded to you by your gender and skin color, were still an impressive failure in every meaningful way.

      I dream of the day that these stains on the fabric of humanity disappear back into the recesses of the earth to sulk in baths full of their white tears. Cry! Cry, as your hate and ignorance bring your downfall!

      • (Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @05:39AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @05:39AM (#679099)

        Honestly, I'm not sure on which side of Poe's law to fall for this one. It seems to be an accurate portrayal of a person who has allowed himself to be thoroughly brainwashed by left-wing authoritarian leaders, to the point that he seems blissfully unaware of the fact that because of the wealthy interests he represents, he is just a massive hypocrite any time the word "privilege" leaves his mouth.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by qzm on Sunday May 13, @10:30AM

        by qzm (3260) on Sunday May 13, @10:30AM (#679142)

        Idiot called bad people 'a worthless piece of racist trash unworthy of recognition' and then says 'But don't worry, white male' about those very people, being both sexist and racist.

        Really, you cannot make this shit up.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @04:10AM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @04:10AM (#679070)

    Plugging into the Dark Web.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @05:28AM (8 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @05:28AM (#679088)

      I wonder how long before Soylent gets an NSL or a friendly visit from the CIA? What about others who rent VPSes? Do we have ways of connecting to i2p or TOR in the event we need to traverse the Great Firewall of the USA?

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Sunday May 13, @07:01AM (2 children)

        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 13, @07:01AM (#679112)

        http://7rmath4ro2of2a42.onion/ - I think that is our onion address.

        --
        It's always my fault...
        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:11AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:11AM (#679115)

          OK, I am accessing the site via TOR now - that onlon link is good--JR

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Sunday May 13, @07:10AM (3 children)

        I'll help coordinate if we need to find or make a replacement.

        Not being detected or prevented from using the desired privacy technology is the first step.

        https://www.torproject.org/docs/bridges [torproject.org]

        XYZ details, such as an IP address, URL/onion, password, keys, whatever, can be swapped using public-key cryptography over public channel or insecure private messaging platform.

        Platforms to look at other than Tor and I2P include Freenet [wikipedia.org], IPFS [wikipedia.org], ZeroNet [wikipedia.org], Akasha [wikipedia.org], Bitmessage [wikipedia.org], Tox [wikipedia.org], RetroShare [wikipedia.org], Ricochet [wikipedia.org], and probably others. Some of these are already interconnected or could be made to do so.

        Meshnets [reddit.com] look like crap as always. Maybe IoT could be helpful for something: creating a lot of intercommunicating short-range nodes and distributing them by the billions, forming a possible foundation for decentralized networking. This is an extra, you would still want to use encrypted, obfuscated protocols.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday May 13, @07:34AM (2 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 13, @07:34AM (#679121)

          Creating a Freenet channel should only take minutes - I use Freenet fairly regularly but I am by no means knowledgeable about it - I am simply a user. Unfortunately it suffers from the same problems as TOR - everyone thinks it is just for porn and criminal activity.

          I know very little about the others that you have identified, with the exception of TOR. If I get any spare time (yes, I can dream can't I?....) I'll read up on them.

          I don't see us being the target of any government attention but it might still be prudent to have alternatives planned if we should ever need to use them.

          --
          It's always my fault...
          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Sunday May 13, @01:42PM (1 child)

            I'm not even saying we need to be targeted (or at least know we are being targeted). It's just going to be an inevitable move for many discussion groups.

            It's not hard to imagine discussions of chemistry, biology, malware coding, etc. being monitored for review. They want to know where to send the shiny black helicopters.

            --
            [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
            • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday May 13, @02:30PM

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 13, @02:30PM (#679191)

              Fair point.

              --
              It's always my fault...
      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @08:02AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @08:02AM (#679124)

        Both have centralized aspects of the services (guard nodes and seed servers) that are located primarily in the US/EU(primarily Germany.)

        Java I2P is controlled by 5 people currently, the primary ones pushing a pro-SJW agenda. They are also sitting on significant donations (I2P currently has over 5 million dollars in published assets(https://geti2p.net/en/about/hall-of-fame). All of them have their public identities revealed and are either US, German, or Canadian citizens. For someone with more time, credentials of these staff warrant further scrutiny as well as how the finances are being handled.

        The only feature-complete alternative is the C++ i2pd, which had a heap leak CVE (https://nvd.nist.gov/nvd.cfm?cvename=CVE-2017-17066) in the past year. This leak dated back many years and the main developers try and pretend concerns about it are just an attack by a rival fork while brushing over concerns about the security of their application, which they have been bragging heavily about as being both faster and more secure than Java I2P. Kovri, which is aligned/backed by Monero, was also affected by it, both being forks of code from an earlier developer who stopped maintaining the project. The primary developers for both projects are Russian, with a few ,mostly American, Westerners in the mix.

        Tor has fallen down a similar SJW hole since the Applebaum fiasco and leadership shakeup, and due to both its American centered leadership, primary infrastructure in 5 eyes signatories, and changes to increase circuit performance at a trade off in anonymity are causes for concern.

        After saying all this, the I2P protocol is still worth further development, but for that to happen a new project needs to be formed. The first step is taking the java I2P router and completing optional protocol features that were defined but never implemented, like payload padding to make actual traffic patterns less discernible. From there anti-Sybil protocol features need to be implemented/added to take care of ongoing concerns over services or users being deanonymized, as well as modifications to help improve multihoming support which could help both with DDoS prevention as well as anonymity of hidden services against targeted attacks. If the udp tunnel support currently in C++ i2pd was documented and ported to Java I2P, the SOCKS client tunnel type extended to include the optional SOCKSv5 UDP support, and volunteer outproxies were set up, with outbound throttling of UDP handled by the exit node, I2P as a platform would provide a much wider selection of benefits compared to Tor. But without a major change in leadership or a fresh blooded fork developing the features, it is destined to stagnate and die, as it has been doing for almost 10 years now, and almost 3 despite what should have been more than sufficient funding and demand.

        Whatever your politics, so long as you believe in free speech, the right to privacy, and the need for a secure internet platform free from government or organizational, the anonymity platforms need *YOU* to continue protecting us, both from corporate/government surveillance and extremist agenda groups; whether SJW, AltRight, or your regions equivalent ideological demographics.

        For the record, i2pd is the only thing that has kept I2P features developing the past few years, but has leadership flaws similiar to the java project that will hamstring it going forward for a variety of mostly technical reasons, some of which have security implications. At the same time, Java I2P itself is lacking in both sufficient and competent developers, especially cryptographers, to take the next series of steps in development and verification of the protocol.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @04:13AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @04:13AM (#679071)

    Total genocide is the only final solution to the human problem.

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @06:03AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @06:03AM (#679104)

      After you.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @12:48PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @12:48PM (#679168)

      It's called humanicide you nilwit.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Whoever on Sunday May 13, @05:05AM (26 children)

    by Whoever (4524) on Sunday May 13, @05:05AM (#679080) Journal

    Take the example of scientists who argue or discuss evolution with dyed-in-the-wool creationists. It's completely pointless.

    It's become clear since the election of Trump that there are many people like those creationists, but on political topics (actually, I would expect that most creationists would be Trump supporters): there is no point arguing with them because they feel that their ignorance deserves equal weight as verifiable facts.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @06:10AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @06:10AM (#679106)

      There’s no need to be antisemetic.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @06:27AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @06:27AM (#679108)

        I can't tell if you're joking...

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @08:32PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @08:32PM (#679299)

          No, he's just being anti-semantic. Which is what some of the Fine Articles are about.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:00AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:00AM (#679111)

      Take the example of scientists who argue or discuss evolution with dyed-in-the-wool creationists. It's completely pointless.

      The same thing with Trumsters and ISILs and other extremists. So what do we do with them? If you leave them alone, they'll just fuck up the world.

      The greatest enemy of the world are all the extremists. How do you know you are an extremist? If you think the world is against you, then you are part of the problem. Reality is the world is not against you - it mostly doesn't give a shit about you.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Captival on Sunday May 13, @05:22PM (4 children)

        by Captival (6866) on Sunday May 13, @05:22PM (#679233)

        Stock market: great
        Unemployment: great
        US Manufacturing: great
        NK/SK relations: great

        "The entire world will be destroyed" is leftist dog whistle for "them stupid minorities might realize they don't need us Democrats to lie and pretend to be helping them". Which is exactly why they came down on Kanye West so hard, to the point of threatening to kill him, all for the crime of disagreeing with them.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Bobs on Sunday May 13, @05:46PM (3 children)

          by Bobs (1462) on Sunday May 13, @05:46PM (#679237)

          And how much of this is was caused by vs. in spite of, Trump's actions?

          Frankly, there is a lot of inertia, and he hasn't almost nothing in terms of legislation.

          Basically, so this is basically the economy he inherited, except for a massive tax cut to corporations a few months ago.

          Basically, if Clinton had won most of the economic issues would be similar so far, except Congress would be investigating Clinton, vs. Mueller investigating Trump.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday May 13, @06:51PM

            "Almost nothing in terms of legislation" is what a lot of us want from a President. I'd be tickled pink if the next four years were spent doing nothing but repealing laws but just passing no new ones would put the office holder down as second best President ever in my book.

            --
            Cobra Kai
          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:58PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:58PM (#679278)

            Federal regulations have the force of law. Congress essentially hands over a big chunk of their power to the administrative branch.

            Trump has ripped out a stunning amount of regulation. His promise was 2 removed for every one added, but last I heard the ratio was around 20 or 30 removed for every one added.

            For business, this is huge.

            Trump also has a major impact on tariffs.

          • (Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday May 13, @10:41PM

            by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 13, @10:41PM (#679337)

            So simultaneously Trump has total control and will "fuck up the world." despite everything going freakin' great. while he also has zero influence especially over contemporary international negotiations, for example. Its a religious belief on the level of the triune god, although in this case the unshakable faith is peculiar eastern dualism ying-yang style where everything bad will be due to Trump and everything good is merely Obama inertia. Its interesting as a religious belief but not a useful model to describe or predict the real world.

            There's a mildly interesting Christian heretical doctrine of the god of the old testament, ye olde volcanoe god, also happens to be Satan at the same time. It was most popular about 1900 years ago and has varied over time. Much like the Trump thing, its theologically interesting in an academic sense but kinda weak at explaining, modeling,and predicting the real world.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by choose another one on Sunday May 13, @10:49AM (2 children)

      by choose another one (515) on Sunday May 13, @10:49AM (#679150)

      > Take the example of scientists who argue or discuss evolution with dyed-in-the-wool creationists. It's completely pointless.

      Disagree. I have debated evolution, more than once, with more than one full on young-earth creationist - two of them were colleagues (both very good technical people) and friends.

      Always perfectly reasonable debates and even if no one changed their minds as a result, both sides learned from those debates. Even if what is learned is just how/why the other person thinks what they do, that is something worth knowing - particularly if the person is someone you work with.

      None of the religious folk ever tried to shut down my argument or say that I was not qualified to speak simply because I was an atheist.

      With social justice extremists on the other hand there is far less point in starting a debate (if I am even allowed to enter into one) because I can be disqualified (by the other side) at any time due to being cis-white-male.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @06:40PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @06:40PM (#679244)

        With social justice extremists on the other hand there is far less point in starting a debate (if I am even allowed to enter into one) because I can be disqualified (by the other side) at any time due to being cis-white-male.

        This is the truth. If you're trans-white-female, you'll get shut down as well, because all your problems apparently come from the nebulous Emmanuel Goldstein called TERFs. Or if you directly contradict them with your lived experiences as an attractive woman (7/10 territory, soon to be 8/10 with infiltrator sheath upgrades), your argument is just automatically invalid because reasons. And if you're a heterosexual trans-white-female (attracted to men), you're also an incel because you haven't found a good reason to attempt to get a cisfemale you're not attracted to into bed.

        The word incel was when I knew rational discussion was over. Incels suffer from internalized misandry. Many might be homosexual men. Look at how vicious SJWs are towards homosexuals. Homosexuals got gay marriage, and intersectional identity politics said "Fuck you! You've got yours! Not happy? Fuck you. I've got mine!" If the SJWs wanted to have fewer incels in the world, they would stop trying to turn incels into women and start trying to help them find their inner Iron John. For the homosexuals, they would help them with self-acceptance. No, instead they inflame the internalized misandry and slam them back into a straight jacket, castrated gender role as nothing but an expendable sexual object.

      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday May 13, @10:49PM

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 13, @10:49PM (#679341)

        None of the religious folk ever tried to shut down my argument or say that I was not qualified to speak simply because I was an atheist.

        Because you're not in their group. For reasons beyond the scale of this post, I attend Catholic mass occasionally with extended family members, and one peculiar shared experience is reciting the Profession of Faith toward the end of the Liturgy of the Word section. If you're a Catholic you know thats just something you go along to get along and we do it together and its meaning does not extend much beyond waving cig lighters at concert, why the hell do people do that anyway? So having a rational discussion about theology with "the other" on the topic of what it all may or may not mean is not confrontational.

        With social justice extremists on the other hand there is far less point in starting a debate (if I am even allowed to enter into one) because I can be disqualified (by the other side) at any time due to being cis-white-male.

        You're a member of our weird civilization scale suicide cult by virtue of race or gender or education or whatever, how dare you not follow membership rules?

        Its the difference between talking to "other" about some not terribly interesting or exciting old tradition that usually means very little to most individuals other than "we done it that way for 2000 years, thats why we do it that way", vs sort of a "war of northern aggression" on people trying to escape the suicide cult, you're not allowed to secede from the cult we'd rather destroy you than let you leave like an insane murderous spouse. Thats pretty much how the New Right sees the Left.

    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday May 13, @11:05AM (13 children)

      You do realize you just advocated against rational discussion as a means to resolve disagreements between people. Are you aware that when you do that, all that is left is violence? And you think your side is the civilized one? Interesting...

      --
      Cobra Kai
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @02:54PM (10 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @02:54PM (#679194)

        Reading comprehension, can you dig it????

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday May 13, @03:30PM (6 children)

          ...there is no point arguing with them because...

          What part of that escapes you as being against reasoned debate? He has pre-judged (You know that's the literal definition of prejudice, yes?) all who disagree with him as having nothing of value to say and refused reasoned debate as a solution. The only thing left when you take away solving things with words is solving them with violence.

          --
          Cobra Kai
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @04:26PM (5 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @04:26PM (#679220)

            No. You could also ignore them.

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday May 13, @06:52PM (4 children)

              Yeah? I see how well everyone's managing that with Trump. Got any bridges you want to sell me?

              --
              Cobra Kai
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:51PM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:51PM (#679274)

                It is simply impossible for you to back down from your own absolutist statements. You made a "logical" step from "no point in having a discussion with some people" to "we must kill each other then!"

                I presume you're just triggered by the OPs singling out of Trump supporters, but there are liberals who it is pointless to have discussions with as well. Now I won't go so far as to say the discussions are completely pointless, at the very least you expose someone to different ideas so it is harder for them to say "only demon spawn believe such things!"

                So I don't have a bridge for you, but I am having a special on crow meat.

                • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday May 13, @08:05PM (1 child)

                  Do you have any way except violence or reasoned discourse to solve a conflict? I'd be interested to hear it. Just ignore them is not an option when two sides have diametrically opposed views of how the world should be. It's just a postponement of the conflict not a resolution.

                  --
                  Cobra Kai
                  • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday May 14, @06:47AM

                    by c0lo (156) on Monday May 14, @06:47AM (#679450)

                    Do you have any way except violence or reasoned discourse to solve a conflict?

                    How about not engaging in a conflict in a first place?
                    Yeah, I know, utopic... as utopic as resolving a conflict by "reasoned discourse" when the conflict was started, is based and is further fueled by emotions.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday May 20, @03:35AM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 20, @03:35AM (#681762) Journal

                  It is simply impossible for you to back down from your own absolutist statements.

                  Why would he need to or should do so? Maybe you ought to provide a compelling reason to back your feelings?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @03:37PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @03:37PM (#679207)

          Reading comprehension, can you dig it????

          It's sad when you see senility settling in. I expect there are a lot of 1960's and 1970's flower children now losing their faculties as a result from all the drugs though.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:47PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:47PM (#679269)

            It is even more sad to see a moron nitpick some slang and apply incredibly stupid judgments based on their own preconceptions. Can you grok that shit? Should I create a meme to make you more comfortable? Or maybe I'll just open a textbook and watch you run away screaming.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @09:21PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @09:21PM (#679314)

              Run away from a textbook? If you're going to mock someone, at least mock the positions they hold. Do you always trust information that comes in the format of a textbook? Remember that what goes into textbooks is determined by religious reactionaries in Texas. That couldn't possibly create a problem with trusting everything any given "textbook" says, could it?

              My favorite part of you SJWs being used by imperialist neoliberal capitalist elites trying to start World War 3 is how you demonstrate, in nearly every post (especially you, if you're who I think you are), that any discussion with you is pointless.

              You are a brownshirt.

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by arcz on Sunday May 13, @07:51PM (1 child)

        by arcz (4501) on Sunday May 13, @07:51PM (#679275) Journal

        The way things are going, violence is probably the only option to defend against SJW takeover.

        I for one, wont tolerate the racist and sexist actions of the left or right, including by "SJWs". While I have respect for free speech, actually doing these things is intolerable. Regardless of whether these actions are approved by our morally corrupt courts, they are wrong and immoral. If things continue to get worse, the time will come where I would personally take up arms. Civil war isn't very far away at this point.

        I wont accept democracy as an excuse for racist and sexist discrimination. If nessecary, I would shoot to kill the offenders. Hopefully we make a u-turn soon and that never has to happen.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 14, @08:40PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 14, @08:40PM (#679769)

          Good luck getting into law school, little arcz, when they link posts like this to you!

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by crafoo on Sunday May 13, @05:08AM (17 children)

    by crafoo (6639) on Sunday May 13, @05:08AM (#679082)

    I love the bit about identity politics in the summary. It so thoroughly highlights the intellectual blind spot of the new regressive left.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by xhedit on Sunday May 13, @05:33AM (15 children)

      by xhedit (6669) on Sunday May 13, @05:33AM (#679094)

      No kidding. Identity politics is about justice, really? The end result of identity politics is the creation of a shitload of division, so much so it seems engineered to do that.

      • (Score: 2) by Arik on Sunday May 13, @05:40AM

        by Arik (4543) on Sunday May 13, @05:40AM (#679100)
        It is a matter of justice in a sense. It's about two very different meanings being given to the word "justice," at any rate. Traditional justice is individual, 'social justice' seeks to replace the very concept with identity politics, so that it's impossible to even think of traditional justice without it sounding absurd and awful.
        --
        "If Evolution Is Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Evolve."
      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @05:43AM (11 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @05:43AM (#679103)

        In addition, if you look closely, you'll see that more and more people are finding that they're no longer middle class. They're working class now. And they're very, very pissed off about that. Identity politics excels at dancing around the issue of economic class.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Sunday May 13, @04:46PM

          by hemocyanin (186) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 13, @04:46PM (#679222)

          Identity politics excels at dancing around the issue of economic class.

          Probably intentionally so. Keeps us plebs busy so the 0.1% can keep hoovering up all the resources.

        • (Score: 2) by crafoo on Sunday May 13, @04:59PM (8 children)

          by crafoo (6639) on Sunday May 13, @04:59PM (#679225)

          They tried dividing and pitting economic classes against each other before. It's was called communist revolutions. It was such a universally evil, brutal, failure. The ideas (post-modernism) were repackaged around race & gender. It's a set of beliefs that discards objective reality. It's effectively a naked power-grab attempt that crushes critical thought and freedom in favour of elevating arbitrary groups of people based on victimhood points. Taken to its extreme it ensures violent confrontation.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @06:48PM (7 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @06:48PM (#679247)

            Then we need to improve on the ideas and try again. Stalinism is a dead end. Maoism is a dead end. I'm not very confident about Trotskyism, but at least wswswswswsws gives us decent reporting that's isn't far right wing whargarbl or CIA propaganda being pushed by neoliberal agitprop outlets such as New York Times and WaPo.

            In my infinite free time, I'm hoping to read more about libertarian socialism [wikipedia.org]. My gut is telling me that we need UBI to deal with class stratification and synergize with free market ideals. Organizing an economy top-down is a dead end. So let's not do that. Capitalism without socialism is quickly demonstrating itself to be a dead end. Let's come up with something better.

            • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday May 13, @06:58PM (6 children)

              Capitalism without socialism is quickly demonstrating itself to be a dead end. Let's come up with something better.

              The sky is a luverly shade of green in your reality, isn't it? Capitalism is the only national economic system that has ever done any good by its people. And when not overly burdened by well-meaning, socialist nutjobs, it has done astoundingly well by them.

              tl;dr If you're going to lie, even to yourself, do it about something without a trillion tons of evidence proving you wrong.

              --
              Cobra Kai
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:53PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:53PM (#679276)

                Ah to be as naive as you are, such a pleasant life I'd live.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @09:26PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @09:26PM (#679315)

                That's why we need to keep capitalism. There is no other system of economic organization yet discovered by humans that is able to raise the collective wealth of the planet so much.

                However, capitalism should not be our religion. It is not a complete solution.

              • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday May 14, @04:52AM

                by c0lo (156) on Monday May 14, @04:52AM (#679425)

                Capitalism is the only national economic system that has ever done any good by its people.

                This is why the social-democracy works so well in many places of Europe, right?

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday May 20, @03:41AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 20, @03:41AM (#681763) Journal

          In addition, if you look closely, you'll see that more and more people are finding that they're no longer middle class. They're working class now.

          Or upper class. That's happening more often [reason.com] than the working class version. Maybe it would be good some day to tune your narrative in with reality.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @08:47PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @08:47PM (#679301)

        Loss of unequal privilege can seem like that, to not-too intelligent members of the privileged classes. Sorry, bro!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @09:41PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @09:41PM (#679321)

          Identity politics is a sham. This "privilege" you want us to believe in is a completely fake simulation of privilege. It's not even a simulacrum any more. It has no relation to reality. The only place you'll find some semblance of reality is with blacks and Hispanics. Reality is that looking at economic class is where you'll find your privilege. Then you'll find that your handlers, being wealthy capitalist elites, have more privilege than the entire intersectional demographic of cisgender white heterosexual males. Protip: you'll want to use median in your analysis, not mean. If every capitalist elite (1%er) is a cisgender white heterosexual male, that does jack shit for the other 99% of heterosexual cisgender white males.

          Exercise: explain to me how the 99%'s privilege changes if you're a 99%er with any permutation of [(white|Oriental|Hispanic|Arab|American Indian|black)¹, (homosexual|bisexual|heterosexual|asexual), (cisgender|transgender), (male|female|bigender|androgynous)] in relation to a 1%er of which ever permutation you believe has the least intersectional identity privilege, in terms of absolute/total privilege enjoyed by the 99%er vs. the 1%er.

          I think you'll find that the privilege granted or denied by any given intersectional identity is at least an order of magnitude (so to speak, because how do we quantify privilege except in an economic sense?) less than the privilege granted by economic class.

          Except once again, I waste my time replying to a brownshirt.

          ¹ Keep in mind, according to geneticists, there is really no such thing as race. We're all human.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:00PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:00PM (#679253)

      I love the bit about identity politics in the summary.

      Yep, that does seems to be a bit of a alt-right dog-whistle, brought to us by Arthur T Knackerbracket, well known bot under Russian "Troll House" control.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Arik on Sunday May 13, @05:29AM (14 children)

    by Arik (4543) on Sunday May 13, @05:29AM (#679089)
    "To which Glaude launched into a full defense of identity politics: “Identity politics is a phrase that kind of is a red herring. Identity politics is just simply questions of justice, right?”"

    He didn't intend it to be but I think that statement makes about as good a litmus test for extremism in the USA in the 21st century as you'll find. Two groups of people agree with him - the regressive left and the genuine neo-nazi/fascist/ethnostate types.

    Justice requires individuals be treated as individuals, not as representatives of group identity.
    --
    "If Evolution Is Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Evolve."
    • (Score: 2) by BsAtHome on Sunday May 13, @06:08AM (7 children)

      by BsAtHome (889) on Sunday May 13, @06:08AM (#679105)

      It is not about justice at all. It is about /perceived/ justice.

      Since that is a totally subjective feeling and subject to extreme manipulation, we should be able to agree that nobody will be able to agree as long as interests do not align.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @06:58PM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @06:58PM (#679252)

        It is not about justice at all. It is about /perceived/ justice.

        So much this. When trans women were the intersectional identity class in the vogue, it was pure terror for me. Feminists came at me, because they're being fucked by transnational capitalism, and they figured that if they fucked me over (and after being so thoroughly fucked by feminists, how could I be an incel?! lol), they would get something out of it. The alt-right came at me, because they're being fucked by transnational capitalism, and they figured that if they shoved me around, they would get something out of it. (Though the alt-right wasn't successful in fucking me as hard and as long as feminism.)

        Then the feminists patted themselves on the back, because omg Chelsea Manning! Brianna Wu! Look at all that perceived justice! Meanwhile, the cost of my meds trebled. Sex change surgery is now something I won't ever have to worry about, because transnational capitalism fucked me too (and then hour of code and the disinformation campaign in the mainstream propaganda outlets such as WaPo in particular fucked me sideways with a razor dildo), and like shit I'll ever be able to afford it.

        Where the fucking justice in that?!

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday May 13, @07:49PM (4 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 13, @07:49PM (#679273) Journal

          Kurenai, if you want to be seen, log in. You get no karma bonus as AC.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @09:44PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @09:44PM (#679322)

            If I've posted something worth reading, I'll get modded up, and then I'll be seen. If I've posted crap, it will remain at zero. If it's scurrilous, only one person with mod points needs to be bothered to send it to -1.

            Did you have any actual response you wanted to add?

            • (Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday May 14, @04:30AM (2 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 14, @04:30AM (#679415) Journal

              Yes: quit being a selfish fucking asshole. Every goddamn post you make is all about you, you, you, even when it has little to nothing to do with the actual topic at hand. You are doing yourself worse than no favors and reinforcing the stereotype of the transwoman as a hysterical, self-obsessed lunatic.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 14, @01:56PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 14, @01:56PM (#679568)

                Except, of course, the posts that aren't. I can vent in that style and get your panties in a twist. You don't think I haven't gotten sick of selfish shit like that from you self-styled "superior beings?"

                Then I can watch the posts more in line with what needs to be said get modded up. Go head. Pick out a post I've made in this thread that doesn't include the requisite trigger words for your easy identification.

                Just remember. Even after you fucked over my access to local medical care, I was With Her. Then you "superior beings" went full reactionary retard. Frankly fuck you.

                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday May 14, @08:02PM

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 14, @08:02PM (#679746) Journal

                  How many times do I need to present my trans-inclusive bona-fides, damn it? Just because a few TERFy lunatics at the Michigan Womyn's Music Festival did you dirty does *not* give you the license to lump 50+% of the human race (cisgender women) together in the Disney Villain Bucket. We trans-inclusive types have for several years now been internally discussing what a problem the TERFs are both in and of themselves and for feminism in general; they've sold themselves and by extension most of us out to the very people who want us all barefoot, pregnant, and stupid in the kitchen for eternity. More than once the term "house negro" and variations thereof has popped up in these discussions.

                  I personally did nothing to "fuck over your access to local medical care," Kurenai, and I will thank you to stop blaming me for what others did to you.

                  --
                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 2) by shortscreen on Sunday May 13, @08:01PM

        by shortscreen (2252) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 13, @08:01PM (#679281) Journal

        Identity politics is about deflecting blame. The 99% are getting screwed by a system that is rigged to benefit the 1% (refine those percentages as you wish). We have to acknowledge that people are getting screwed, but instead of pointing out the injustice of the system we'll pretend that their only problem was being hispanic/muslim/trans/whatever. Then we can assign blame to everyone (but especially white males) for being too racist/sexist/bigoted. And the 1% can continue gathering wealth and power without opposition.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:07AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 13, @07:07AM (#679113)

      Justice requires individuals be treated as individuals, not as representatives of group identity.

      I'm sorry but no. If you are part of ISIL (or a NAZI), you are just as guilty as the rest of them. Why do you think there are RICO laws in place? Why do you think many nations have laws that make it illegal to belong to illegal organizations?

      the regressive left

      Yeah... not biased at all here, are you? US has such an infinitesimal size of "regressive left" that you can't even see it. And if you view a mostly right-wing party like Democratic Party as "regressive left", then maybe you are part of the problem.

      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday May 13, @07:20AM

        I'm sorry but no. If you are part of ISIL (or a NAZI), you are just as guilty as the rest of them. Why do you think there are RICO laws in place? Why do you think many nations have laws that make it illegal to belong to illegal organizations?

        Legal organization, website, group, etc. today, illegal tomorrow. Here, I'll use Russia as an example:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_undesirable_organizations_law [wikipedia.org]
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_gay_propaganda_law [wikipedia.org]

        Also, how does one become a guilty NAZI? Isn't that label applicable to hundreds or thousands of disparate groups with differing activities, beliefs, and objectives? Are they all "illegal" or committing crimes that require collective punishment?

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 2) by qzm on Sunday May 13, @10:36AM (2 children)

        by qzm (3260) on Sunday May 13, @10:36AM (#679146)

        Well, there have been no NAZIs for quite some time, I think what you think you mean in Neo-NAZI, and those are actually quite rare, and easily identified.
        They are mostly NOT the people who are being called NAZIs for not agreeing with someones personal 'justice for me, but only me' agenda.
        Interesting you bring up Illegal organisations, wouldnt ANTIFA be a pretty solid example on one right now?

        Actually I find 'regressive left', even though I have not personally see it before, an interesting and useful label.
        To myself I would see it as representing those on the left who actually believe that Marxism, Communism, etc are positive social solutions, against an amount
        of evidence now available that is simply staggering. They would be 'regressive' in that their wish is to try yet again an old and horrifically failed experiment.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday May 13, @11:11AM

          They also actively work, as part of their core identity, against equality. They tell groups they are special. They tell the rest of us the special groups must get special consideration. That is precisely the definition of privilege, so they are actively engaged in seeking to create privileged classes.

          --
          Cobra Kai
        • (Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday May 13, @11:06PM

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 13, @11:06PM (#679353)

          I think what you think you mean in Neo-NAZI, and those are actually quite rare, and easily identified.

          Every Republican President for my entire life has been "literally Hitler" so good luck with that.

      • (Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday May 15, @01:28AM

        by Arik (4543) on Tuesday May 15, @01:28AM (#679877)
        "Yeah... not biased at all here, are you?"

        I call it as I see it. I see calls from the left in favor of segregation, I call that regressive.
        --
        "If Evolution Is Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Evolve."
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