Thousands of "gilets jaunes" (yellow vest) protesters, often masked, riot in the streets of Paris and other major French cities for a third weekend. Hundreds have been arrested and injured (including police) in the often violent protests. Reuters documents the activities in some detail. This video shows a mob of protesters surround and attack a policeman (it's ok, he gets away, with help from one or more of the protesters).
The protests are over fuel taxes imposed to discourage fossil fuel use and help France meet its carbon emission goals under the Paris Climate Accord (which the U.S. is not party to.)
With the usual nod to common sense:
The U.S. embassy issued a statement urging citizens to be careful, saying that "violent clashes between police and protesters" continued in at least three of Paris's 20 districts, known as arrondissements. "Avoid all demonstrations, seek shelter in the vicinity of clashes, follow instructions of security personnel"
Chants and graffiti sprayed during the protests sometimes expresses frustration with the administration:
[Some] targeted the Arc de Triomphe, chanting "Macron Resign" and scrawling on the facade of the towering 19th-century arch: "The yellow vests will triumph."
And other times simply more general anarchistic statements:
Protesters smashed the windows of a newly opened flagship Apple Store (AAPL.O) and luxury boutiques of Chanel and Dior, where they daubed the slogan "Merry Mayhem" on a wooden board.
French President Emmanuel Macron commented Tuesday on the protests, saying that:
he understood the anger of voters outside France's big cities over the squeeze fuel prices have put on households. But he insisted he would not be bounced into changing policy by "thugs".
Those "conciliatory" words have no doubt improved the situation.
The protests enjoy widespread support inside and outside the major cities, including from many of the police even as they strive to keep order, and show no signs of abating.
Also at NBC.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @04:27AM (20 children)
I am curious, since mainstream media is often very weaslish about these things, in this case who are the demonstrators?
Are they trade unions? young anarchists? native French (i.e. white people?), recent immigrants / ethic or religious (i.e. muslim) groups? ...etc.? a potpourri of all these?
Can anyone actually there give the real story as to what is really going on? What I see in the news media doesn't make a whole lot of sense, which frequently means it has been 'politically corrected' somehow and the 'taboo' topic at the root of it cannot be talked about on TV..
Anyone actually in Paris care to comment as what this is all about / what is causing it / who is unhappy enough & why they are unhappy enough to riot like this?
merci!
(Score: 5, Interesting) by legont on Monday December 03 2018, @04:32AM (1 child)
Short answer - middle class. More precisely - former middle class.
As per political affiliations, yellow vests are moderates, but their are joined by ultra left and right.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by qzm on Monday December 03 2018, @09:24AM
The people who actually work to try and get somewhere, then see that being taken away by 'policy that is for their own good' and delivered to the elites and the troublemakers?
We have for some time had a rather 'interesting' form of capitalism in operation.
The elites get their cut because they own the political and media circuses.
The troublemakers get their cut so they dont rock the boat too hard - its the easiest way to keep them in check (and they are an easily controlled group, just thrown them a few more scraps).
Funnily enough, that also tends to be how real socialism works (except more people wind up dead or vanished, and the elites can get away with being a bit less subtle)
The middle class are always the ones who do the most and get the least, as unfashionable as it is to say that. they are the engine room, and it is a hot and hard place to be.
The problem is the ships officers are just looking out towards the promised world and demanding more speed, while the passengers dont even realise someone has to work to keep the ship running, so think its all a free ride ('government' money).
The only question is: what happens when the boiler expodes and wipes out all the working crew - how will the officers and passengers make the ship work?
For a country that took off the heads of their elites, and then replaced them rather quickly with a slightly different flavour, the French must be respected for their flair in protesting such things.
Unfortunately they tend not to carry through long enough - time will tell.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by c0lo on Monday December 03 2018, @05:24AM (14 children)
Agence France Press [afp.com]
The Guardian [theguardian.com]
"Le Guardian" [theguardian.com] again - opinion - maybe take it with a grain of salt (the social safety net are so much different between US and France).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Informative) by hemocyanin on Monday December 03 2018, @07:03AM (7 children)
The central purpose of an economic system is to allow civil society to flourish (or at least it ought to be). The people who wrote the bolded portion above are certainly smart enough to know that if on average, 10 people make $100k per year, that can mean 10 make a 100k AND it can mean 1 makes a million and 9 make zip. Governments for the last several decades have been devoted to ensuring that the latter case is true while pushing the narrative that we're all richer.
The future effects these globalist policies would provoke was extremely well laid out in this interview of Sir James Goldsmith by Charlie Rose (one dead, the other now made an irrelevant non-person). It's prescient: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwmOkaKh3-s [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday December 03 2018, @07:08AM
(I see. You took more salt than the average).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday December 03 2018, @11:52AM (5 children)
Poor socialists. They always flail about for excuses when there's not enough Other People's Money to go around.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @12:33PM (1 child)
For a change, how about you come with a definition on the main purpose of economy? Repeating yourself makes you boring.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @12:53PM
Economy doesnt have a purpose any more than eating and sleeping has a 'purpose'.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @12:54PM
How do you get socialism from that quote? The left and the right are protesting side by side, the majority of French people support the protests. France has tax at something like 48% of GDP while the European average is 36%. People aren't protesting for higher taxes are they?
(Score: 3, Informative) by hemocyanin on Monday December 03 2018, @05:40PM (1 child)
Watch the Sir James Goldsmith link above. He was a venture capitalist corporate raider type. The point you disagree with is his. Calling him a commie is a silly beyond my ability to analogize.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @07:30PM
Buzzy Boy silly beyond reason? Noooooo
Gotta fight the sword every chance! Woops, I mean S word.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @06:06PM
Might as well throw the wswswswswsws coverage here. Third “yellow vest” protest in France defies government crackdown [wsws.org].
(Score: 5, Informative) by nishi.b on Monday December 03 2018, @10:14PM (3 children)
Ok I'll try to give some context here (as a french).
Macron was the young finance minister from Hollande (previous president, socialist party). He did the standard (for about 20 years now in France) right-wing, "business-friendly" policy that included lowering taxes to companies and rich individuals, while easing laying off people and restricting worker's rights (e.g. an employer could not pay you the same for sunday work, now they can). Hollande was elected on a center-left platform and did mostly nothing except some right-wing reforms during his 5-year mandate.
Macron left the government a year before the election to avoid the usual "payback" that politicians in power get when they go back to the elections.
He presented himself as "beyond the right and the left" "not a professional politician" and all the "we are new and different from others, most of the candidates with me for the house will be non-politicians" and so on.
The presidential election was characterized by the absence of union of the left (so something like 6 parties competed on the left); Macron having the support of moderate socialists (that wanted to avoid the announced socialist party demise), centrist, and moderate right-wing politicians that did not like their own very conservative candidate (Fillon). Even though Fillon was the probable winner, but he was caught in a scandal over corruptions a few months before the election. Even though Macron was touted as "the only option against the far right", Macron got only 24% of the vote in the first run. As he was opposed in the second run only to the far-right candidate, he won because people from the full political spectrum considered him less dangerous than the far right.
Since the start of his presidency, his first decisions were to completely remove the overtax on the rich, remove 200 billions of taxes on companies and removing hundreds of thousands of government-supported jobs. He also froze all government employees pay and minimum benefits for retirees and unemployed (with inflation it means a net loss), increased a tax on retiree's revenue and said that all this would boost the economy and reduce unemployment (that did not work). He also continued a policy of reducing costs in the public service (hospitals, train lines, administration and so on), thus closing a lot of small structures like local hospitals in rural areas. At the same time he was boasting all the time, nicknamed himself Jupiter and gave the impression of taking all decisions without ever listening to anyone else.
Unemployment did not really decrease, but the rich got richer and the middle class got poorer. Since his presidency he already faced opposition from nurses, train company employees (privatization is on the way and he reduced the train worker's rights in the process), and unions opposed to his changes in worker's right (such as reducing the maximum amount a wrongfully discharged employee can get through the justice system).
He had a very popular ecology minister (former nature TV show presenter) that quit a few month ago after having all decisions taken against his wishes (pesticides, hunting protected species, pollution and so on) despise grandiose speeches on the subject.
A number of scandal from his party (a personal friend/bodyguard beating up protesters in the street, members of his party increasing their own pay to 5 times the average salary and so on)
Since a few months he increased another tax, the tax on gasoline. At the same time the prices were already skyrocketing due to worldwide petrol prices increases. And they announced that the tax will increase again in january.
A woman on facebook living in a small city said that she already had troubled making end's meet and that she could not pay for that increase just to go to work with her car, unlike people from the big cities who have public transportation, and that people should protest using the yellow vest that anyone must have in their car.
In France like in many other countries many people despise or hate unions and political parties since they form a kind of oligarchy where the friends at the top share public money and power and don't experience "ordinary life".
The call to protest was relayed by thousands but remains outside any organization.
It is thus really hard to say what "they" want because some were protesting immigration, ecological taxes, while others want more public service outside Paris, having more say in the decisions that are taken and so on.
Every time some people proposed themselves as representatives to go talk to the government they were violently rejected (death threats and so on) by other gilets jaunes.
During the whole thing, Macron and his prime minister said they would not cancel the next tax increase and basically rejected any dialog with the protesters.
Now about the violence, this is more violent than usual, but not that much, as it is very frequent to see violent clashes at demonstrations. Some wonder whether Macron wanted to repeat what he had successfully done in the past : let the violence erupt, have the media show the violence, and present himself as the stable president against the violent protesters so that the protesters become unpopular.
It seems this time this hasn't worked (yet ?) and it is extremely complicated now to respond to protesters that are not organized (political parties from all over are trying to be a part of it, but they are followers, not leaders).
Moreover, if I am to believe the french journals, many protesters are not used to protesting, many are retired, people from small cities and rural areas that feel their life degrading, and not the usual unions or suburbs-style rioters. Some find a lot in common between this and the start of the french revolution (protests against taxes considered unfair while the political elite lives in luxury) but I am not sure how much this applies.
I have no idea how things will turn out, but I hope that helps people outside of France understand a little more about this.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @10:28PM
Thanks.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Monday December 03 2018, @11:59PM
It's good summary.
I'd add that there's a chance the government is trying to wait out the end of Fall Strike Season (Sept-Nov, usually), and hope that some conciliatory moves during the Too-Cold-to-demonstrate winter months, will avoid a restart when Spring Strike Season comes.
Most people see, to agree that the "tax this behavior" approach of the French government has gotten borderline oppressive over the last few decades, vreating a giant burden on the working class.
The violence, however, is usually mostly from disenfranchised poor, who find an outlet for their boredom, frustration, or hate of systemic racism, by setting a few things on fire at the first excuse (penalties are pretty light). This case adds a few frustrated people worried to lose what they worked hard to get, and a sprinkle of extreme-right which would have preferred Marine Le Pen to win the election and want to delegitimize Macron.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday December 04 2018, @03:29AM
Many thanks, it's a clear coherent image now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 4, Insightful) by edinlinux on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:30AM
>The paradox is this is not a result of the failure of the globalised economic model but of its success.
Uh no.. its a failure then. A good economy has two parts:
1)Generation of wealth
2)Distribution of wealth among the people who produce it
part 2) above has clearly failed in most developed countries today, which is why you are seeing these riots, Trump in the whitehouse..etc..etc...
An economy that is even a bit less efficient at generating wealth, but distributes it much more equitably is far more preferable to what we have now..
(Score: 2) by driverless on Monday December 03 2018, @08:01AM (1 child)
The French. You need to understand how this works in France, demonstrations and strikes aren't the extraordinary thing they are in most countries but just an everyday fact of life. Politicians do things, there are strikes and demonstrations. Politicians don't do things, there are strikes and demonstrations. Then, after everyone feels they've done their bit, they go back to work again until the next time. France is the only country I've been to where you can have a strike over nothing more than that the strikers are worried that the government might do something they might object to in a few years time (really!). It's just the way things are done there. The fact that the reporting doesn't make much sense is due to the fact that non-French countries do things quite differently. Ask any French person and, yeah, these things happen, you apply Système D and continue with your life.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:07AM
My favorite one is that time when some group went on strike to get paid for the days they had just lost by going on strike.
Fighting for your privileges, squared.
(Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Monday December 03 2018, @08:32AM
They are really protesting that the tax is not high enough.
/s
(Score: 2) by legont on Monday December 03 2018, @04:28AM (5 children)
Most protesters are in their 30s and 40s.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday December 03 2018, @05:40AM (4 children)
Citation needed. Will be appreciated, thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday December 04 2018, @01:18AM (3 children)
I just searched "most protesters in 30s and 40s" for the last week. There are many mentions from wide political spectrum news sources; here is one: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/02/world/europe/france-macron-yellow-vest-protests.html [nytimes.com]
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday December 04 2018, @03:27AM (2 children)
The only place in which the linked mention the age bracket is:
So "the under 500 troublemakers arrested are in majority in their 30s and 40s" and not "the demonstration was made in majority by people in their 30s and 40s".
Back to you, maybe you'll find some better citations or adjust your mind in this regard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday December 04 2018, @07:04AM (1 child)
Well, it's even more interesting. The most aggressive of the protesters - the one actually violating the law, burning buildings and beating the police - are people from the most productive age bracket; people who usually busy at home mending children.
And you are a troll.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday December 04 2018, @08:51AM
All of the arrested are less than 500 in a crowd of 75,000.
Assuming all of them are in the age bracket we talk about, that's 0.6%. I can't consider such a percentage representative for the entire "most productive age bracket", I think that saying "99.4% of people are well behaved" is saying "the population is well behaved within reason".
Just to make sure: you don't actually want to blame 99.4% of well behaved people for participating in a civic protest for not being insteadd "busy at home mending children", do you?
How come? Did I misrepresent anything with the purpose of inflaming the readers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @04:33AM (5 children)
Macron is a piece of garbage.
Apparently he didn't read much history so he doesn't have any idea of what to expect when his government issues a hugely unpopular edict.
I reckon his piggish little head would look mighty fine dropping into a basket.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @07:04AM
Macron is France's Hillary. We dodged a bullet!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @12:00PM (2 children)
Wow, so "insightful"...
Except it wasn't his "edict". The fuel taxes are like a decade in the making... and yet somehow no one remembers even few years ago that there was no Macron at all.
How about yours?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @01:58PM
he's not wrong [twitter.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @05:00PM
how stupid do you have to be to be a macron supporter? lmao
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday December 03 2018, @01:34PM
If you just said: "Macron is a popularly elected politician in high office" that would have covered it with much more nuanced detail - being a piece of garbage is just one of many distasteful pre-requisites for high elected office.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday December 03 2018, @05:35AM (1 child)
seems the French managed one every 10-50 years, but now an "incident of civil unrest" (including burning stuff) [wikipedia.org] or just a plain old riot [wikipedia.org] seems to happen every year or two.
recurring issues: petrol taxes or prices, labour reform or deregulation, police violence.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday December 03 2018, @05:50AM
The last linky is "search for the needle in the haystack". Here's a better one [wikipedia.org] for France
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by looorg on Monday December 03 2018, @06:19AM (1 child)
Waiting for them to erect a Guillotine at Place de la Bastille, cause why can't they just eat cake and not worrying about the prices of gasoline.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Archon V2.0 on Monday December 03 2018, @04:19PM
> Waiting for them to erect a Guillotine at Place de la Bastille,
Some people aren't shy about talking about it. One of the people quoted for https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/24/paris-fuel-tax-protest-macron-france-poverty [theguardian.com] said "Macron is our Louis XVI, and we know what happened to him. He ended up at the guillotine."
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @06:31AM
If you've seen the news over the past few years, and still decide to go to Paris, then I hope you do get beheaded by ISIS. Less stupid people in the world, the better.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @06:43AM (7 children)
I've been semi-aware of these protests for about week, maybe two. I saw it online someplace. It finally got something like 30 seconds on CBS tonight. I would't go to NBC for information on this, as they're probably not much better. Journalism is dead, Dead, DEAD at the old networks. I only watch them out of habit, as background noise while I cook, eat, or wash dishes because... well... I'm getting just a bit old and set in my ways. I'm not dead though. They are. They literally air stories about dogs before they air stories about an entire European country in turmoil, and I don't meany "literally". I mean LITERALLY.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @07:06AM (2 children)
For something to listen to while doing chores, go audiobooks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @07:50AM (1 child)
I would actually want to pay attention to the audio book, whereas much of the evening news is drowned out by running water and dishes banging around in the sink. ie, the audio book would take too much attention away from what I'm doing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @02:43AM
With the audiobook method, you put in your earbuds and then actively seek out chores to prolong the listening.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @12:03PM
France is not in turmoil. France is france. People protest about nothing because they are french.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday December 03 2018, @12:54PM
Perhaps they don't want to give you ideas. Who knows? Maybe next time "Occupy..." will result in something, why take the risks?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday December 03 2018, @08:31PM
If the "news" doesn't suit the Agenda, then it is not spoken of, except maybe as a 2-second throwaway mention on an evening broadcast so that nobody will accuse the network of having buried the story.
Also, protests in France are near constant about something or other, so it's rather like proclaiming, "the sun rose in the east this morning." I don't know if the protests there are effective, but it is admirable that the French still believe in direct action instead of a half-watched election every four years that they may or may not bother to vote in. It is something from modern France we all would do well to emulate.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday December 04 2018, @01:31AM
250 fires, 120 burned cars, "a few" burned buildings in Paris. Not sure if it is one weekend or total.
I keep wondering what NY City cops would do if some "protesters" to burn "a few buildings" in Manhattan...
I walk by police station on 42nd every other morning. Each of the parked car out there - dozens of them - comes with two machine guns in the trunk.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @07:27AM (3 children)
In the USA it's the other way around.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @09:16AM
That is because the USA's government got infiltrated by the Jewish communists a long while ago.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @04:02PM (1 child)
Quite true. Look at the result of the "direct actions": In France, destroy a McDonalds or burn a highway tax gantry, and it's a couple thousand euro fine. In the US, the participants would be quickly sentenced to 60 years of prison on a litany of charges. As American demonstrators would be lining up for their next serving of prison loaf, their French counterparts are already organizing their candidacy for a European Parliament seat.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @08:59PM
This is why gun control makes no sense, the government is oppressing the people anyway so whats the point of taking their guns away?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 03 2018, @05:05PM (4 children)
"Hundreds have been arrested and injured (including police) in the often violent protests. Reuters documents the activities in some detail. This video shows a mob of protesters surround and attack a policeman (it's ok, he gets away, with help from one or more of the protesters)."
run, run little pig. what a suck ass you are, RandomFactor.
(Score: 2) by RandomFactor on Monday December 03 2018, @10:37PM (1 child)
I threw that in there so someone that didn't particularly want to see beat down porn would know it wasn't. Sorry to disappoint /shrug
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 2) by etherscythe on Monday December 10 2018, @05:12PM
I read it as such, and appreciated it. While there are definite problems with SOME police overstepping their authority and not acting in the public interest, there's no reason to wish harm on a random member of that group. Some of those folks are truly there trying to make the world a better place, and I think it's good to remember they're human beings occasionally worthy of compassion. Given the benefit of the doubt, this one was just trying to keep the peace: compare to participating in a no-knock raid at the wrong address. If we oversimplify our view, we make room for monsters to co-opt our message and justify atrocity, which leaves us partially responsible.
"Fake News: anything reported outside of my own personally chosen echo chamber"
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:05AM (1 child)
Policeman is a job.
Gotta love how many Americans idolize Servicemen who kill kids in other countries over dumb shit, while hating the cops who protect their own kids from drunk drivers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:53AM
I guess they only identify with the drivers and not the dead kids. Call it a survivors bias.