"Defense Secretary Jim Mattis’ resignation, which shocked Washington’s national security establishment and rattled America’s allies, was sealed in a fateful 18-hour period that saw President Trump resolve to withdraw troops from Syria – alarming Pentagon officials who see America’s role in the region as crucial." foxnews.com/politics/behind-the-scenes-of-the-mattis-bombshell-more-resignations-expected-after-protest-exit
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
Behind the Scenes of the Mattis Bombshell: More Resignations Expected after 'Protest' Exit
|
Log In/Create an Account
| Top
| 43 comments
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
(1)
(Score: 2, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 31 2018, @05:56PM (9 children)
Trump simply did what the puppet master Putin told him to do: withdraw your troups from Syria so I can reign supreme over this future new-USSR country and his "leader" Al-Assad, one of my other puppets.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by soylentnewsinator on Monday December 31 2018, @07:54PM (1 child)
BZZZT Orange Man Bad. More war!
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday December 31 2018, @11:18PM
Answer in the form of a question:
What is the most offered Trump comment on SoylentNews?
:)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 4, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Monday December 31 2018, @11:54PM (6 children)
I didn't vote for Trump, don't like Trump, and I'm not a conservative -- yet: good on him.
That said, those most opposed to ending our involvement in the ME quagmire seem to be Democrats (who also happen to be the most interested in rekindling the cold war over their unrelenting tantrum over losing to Trump).
If Democrats are going to continue at this level of warpigishness, I'll do like I always do and vote 3d party while hoping they lose again next cycle. I wouldn't mind experiencing again the galactic level schadenfreude I felt during the last presidential election. Honestly, to lose to Trump is self-verifying evidence of how out of touch Democrat politicians are, and I believe (or at least hope) their ridiculous level of bloodlust is out of step with rank and file Democrats.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday January 01 2019, @01:06AM (4 children)
I don't know how it makes sense to continue an American presence in Syria. It only risks dragging the US into a third war in the middle east in 20 years. The Turks want to beat on the PKK for a while and possibly re-establish hegemony in the region. The Peshmurga don't have any love for ISIS, Assad, or Turkey and want their own country for once. Assad wants to survive. The hairball of that region is going to go round and round and round like it has ceaselessly for thousands of years, so let them at it and let the rest of us walk away.
The position of the Democrats on this is more proof that we're living in upside-down world. They're the ones that want to restart the Cold War by going hawkish on Russia, a greatly diminished echo of what they were in that period? They're the ones who want more war in the Middle East? They have re-made themselves into a caricature of who the neocon Republicans were, except nobody can look at figures like Nancy Pelosi bristling with righteous anger and feel anything but the pity we all feel when we see Keith Richards squeeze himself into leather pants. That is, it's ridiculously fake. Further, it quite exposes who the Democrats work for, and it is not the American people at all.
It also exposes the top bureaucrats in DC who want war, war, war. They don't any of them serve the American people at all.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 01 2019, @02:59AM (2 children)
Just like it didn't make sense to continue an American presence in Iraq, until ISIS dragged the US into a war in Iraq and Syria?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 01 2019, @05:42AM (1 child)
...with USA [independent.co.uk] provided [bbc.com] weapons [wired.com]? Yeah, makes perfect sense.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 01 2019, @01:57PM
And it's worth noting here that US/Saudi Arabia-provided weapons don't have this magic power to force their users to attack US allies. ISIS would have invaded Iraq anyway because that is what they chose to do.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 01 2019, @06:27AM
And Trump is powerless to stop them when they have the military. Watch the Runaway.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday January 02 2019, @12:06AM
It totally has to do with just throwing a hissy-fit about Trump and nothing to do with their unwavering loyalty to Israel, them being AIPAC-funded and half of them having dual American-Israeli citizenship and all.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 31 2018, @06:09PM (1 child)
Link to the resignation letter:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/read-james-mattis-full-resignation-letter [pbs.org]
Wikipedia context:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Mattis#Tenure [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday January 01 2019, @02:11AM
They say immediate, we're not doing immediate. We're doing slow. I campaigned on getting out of Syria and other places. Now when I start getting out, the Fake News Media, or some failed Generals who were unable to do the job before I arrived, like to complain about me & my tactics, which are working. ISIS is mostly gone, we’re slowly sending our troops back home to be with their families, while at the same time fighting ISIS remnants. Just doing what I said I was going to do!
And by the way, thanks to General Kelly. In order to put any and all conspiracy theories to rest -- General Kelly is a tough, strong, four-star Marine. And a very elegant man. Who's done a very nice job. Good work. Like when he fired that dog Omarosa. When you give a crazed, crying lowlife a break, and give her a job at the White House, I guess it just didn’t work out.
John is a Great American and a Great Leader. He also did a spectacular job at Homeland Security. He has been a true star of my Administration.
But, all good things come to an end. As the great Pete Rose said. And for John and I it came to an end when I said, let's pull our brave soldiers out of Syria. And out of Afghanistan. Thousands of our guys -- and so many gorgeous Woman Soldiers too. Something I'd been wanting to do for a long time. And something the American people elected me to do. But John said, "oh, don't pull out too quickly, you might make a mess." Who wants to hear that, right? So I was very happy to get his Letter of Resignation. And hopefully Wednesday is his last day. Bye bye!!!
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 31 2018, @06:23PM (5 children)
Good riddance! Trump really is draining the swamp! Good for him. I'm starting to like the guy!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 31 2018, @10:42PM (2 children)
Don't know why you modded that down. He was a villain before Trump hired him, just like Comey and the rest. Now he's a victim?! God, really, who are the psychos around here?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 31 2018, @11:51PM (1 child)
Don't worry. wswswswswsws 'members. The resignation of General Mattis and America’s crisis of class rule [wsws.org]:
Prepare for unforeseen consequences (artistic representation [deviantart.com]):
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 01 2019, @03:53PM
It's also the language of protest. One has to look to real world action to distinguish what is what. If "intervention" means coup, then there you go. If it means instead that more people resign or protest, then it's not a coup.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 01 2019, @05:29PM (1 child)
Draining the swamp and installing a cesspool.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 02 2019, @03:11AM
No worse than the democrats leave every time they're in power. You still haven't figured why they can't win, have you? And don't give me your "gerrymandering" bullshit either. It's bullshit for a reason. The democrats just suck, simple as that. And they are crooks, very much like gangsters.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Spamalope on Monday December 31 2018, @06:31PM (4 children)
(trying to wash this of political partisanship to the extent I can, though there is surely lots of poo to fling all around)
The Saudis want an oil pipeline into Europe that'd have to pass through Syria.
The Iranians do too, an Syria is friendly with them.
The Russian economy depends on oil sales to Europe that'd be threatened, so they don't want a pipeline (or would want to control it).
Someone arms Syrian rebels.
The Saudis donated substantial sums to US politicians prior to that. Correlation isn't causation, but *shrug*.
That of course doesn't indicate what a new President should do with an existing mess, but does indicate it's likely to be a diplomatic mess and that odd actions may be the result of secret negotiations. (Possibly US pullout in exchange for Isis/Iraq stability / or backing off in the Ukraine?) US presidential policy has combined playground name calling with quiet diplomatic overtures so who knows.
Is the pullout breaking deals Mattis made to secure cooperation in the area? I'm curious what prompted the resignation and that's the type of possibility that'd worry me.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 31 2018, @06:41PM
I had read that the Kurds had recently declared Mission Accomplished over ISIS. The expected endgame then was that Erdoğan was going to turn against the Kurds. That would put the US between a NATO party on one side, and a partner of convenience on the other side. Turkey is much more important to US geostrategic politics, so the question was when the US would withdraw. If they withdrew during Turkish operations, the US' already minuscule credibility with oppressed peoples that could be used as insurgents in a conflict would have completely evaporated. So the least bad decision: leave Syria and a couple of weapons with the Kurds.
Obviously Mattis was against that, but I wonder who were contrary advisers in Trump's cabinet.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by bradley13 on Monday December 31 2018, @09:05PM (2 children)
"Someone" arms Syrian rebels? It's not even a secret - the US (under Obama) did. And those rebels in essence became ISIS in Syria. Why the US wanted to overthrow Assad is unclear, at least to me.
So now withdrawing because ISIS is defeated? That's entirely thanks to Russian intervention. Claiming any sort of US victory is just...well, it's the "big lie", because the US was responsible for creating the problem in the first place.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 2) by crafoo on Monday December 31 2018, @10:31PM (1 child)
Why did we want to mess with Assad? Pipeline deals. Look up the company and the people behind speculative pipeline deals that would pass through Syria. Surprise, I'm not surprised over the names that turn up.
A leader that puts his nation and people before outside banking and oil interests simply will not be tolerated.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 01 2019, @06:35AM
We?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 31 2018, @06:32PM (5 children)
I talked to a few servicemen recently, and they are not too happy about the decision to pull out. Kinda understandable, they risked their necks over there and after Iraq being exposed as a big lie, we now abandon the missions in Syria and Afghanistan. They respected Mattis and his stand.
But our military is luckily still under the control of the civil government. Yes, Mattis was a civilian, but President Trump has the final decision. If he wants to signal his displeasure at the decision, he can resign, as he did.
I just wish for the future that Congress will assert its rights to declare war, and will construe that to include any new deployment of US forces.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 31 2018, @07:48PM (4 children)
And, so, another generation of servicemen learn about the Big Lie. We left the Sunni Moslems in the lurch during/after the First Gulf War. It's what we do.
(Score: 2, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday January 01 2019, @02:42AM (3 children)
I had a very difficult Christmas. Because I spent it in the Combat Zones in Iraq. And Germany. Visiting our beautiful troops. It was a great honor for me. But incredibly dangerous. I had concerns for the Institution of the Presidency, not for myself personally. I had concerns for the First Lady, I will tell you, but if you would have seen what we had to go through, with the darkened plane, all the windows closed, with no lights on whatsoever, anywhere. Pitch black. I've been on many airplanes. All types and shapes and sizes. I've never seen that.
And in Iraq I asked my soldiers, are you still a believer in Santa? So many of you are young. But even so, it's marginal, right?
America shouldn’t be doing the fighting for every nation on Earth. Not being reimbursed, in many cases, at all. If they want us to do the fighting, they also have to pay a price. And sometimes that’s also a monetary price, so we’re not the suckers of the world. We’re no longer the suckers, folks. And people aren’t looking at us as suckers. We’re respected again as a nation. America First!!!
(Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday January 01 2019, @05:16AM (2 children)
Awwww, a difficult Christmas, he says. Just click the link, and scroll down to see the photo near the bottom of the page. https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday January 01 2019, @06:43AM (1 child)
It has the pictures of the folks that are donating to pay for our beautiful Wall -- many of whom are Mexican. You gave $100. And that's magnificent of you. Absolutely magnificent. I thanked you. And I thank you, I'm very grateful for that one. But we need more than the $18.5 million. We need $5 billion to complete the Southern Border Wall. But Brian is only asking for $1 billion. So he's very close to his goal. But, not so close to mine. Don't worry, we'll finish the Wall. And Mexico will pay for it, eventually. And actually, if every one of my 150 million Friends & Followers on Social Media -- Twitter, Facebook, Soylent News, Instagram, Snapchat -- would give $100, we could get that Southern Wall built very quickly. Although some of those wonderful Snapchat ladies, I would say are doing a tremendous service just by sending in their snaps. The booty snaps and the everything else. Maybe they're not getting the Wall built. But they're Making America Great Again!
And maybe we'll do Concrete Wall. South Korea built what they call Concrete Wall. They closed up their Border with the North. And I know some guys in New York City that are very big in the Concrete business. Some of our great Italian Americans. They're the best. You hire them, your project gets built on time. Every time. Because, no strikes. They keep their Workers very happy. So nobody goes on strike against them. Big reason why I'm the most successful Builder in New York. Winning!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday January 01 2019, @08:38AM
HINT: Don't take any New Yorkers to the border. There is a helluva lot of cheap labor right there. You hire them, have them put up the wall, then you lock them on the other side of the wall as they finish the job. Few if any people know concrete better than Mexicans. If you have a couple billion left over at the end of the project, you can hire those same Mexicans to put a nice adobe finish on the wall. Adobe weathers better than naked concrete.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Monday December 31 2018, @06:36PM (9 children)
To me, this is one of those "a stopped clock is right twice a day" things.
I'd like to see all US troops, ships, and aircraft along with all the gear it is even remotely practical to move brought back to the US. No jobs lost, just plop them down on US soil / borders / waters and let the money it takes to support them feed right back into the US economy instead of into foreign ones.
You want to have a sovereign nation, that's great. Good luck. If you want us to be your military muscle, here's the bill, all payments due in advance, thanks. Because, you know, there tends to be not a lot left standing after we... "help."
I still think Trump is 100% idiot, through and through; but here, for whatever reason has managed to make itself felt in his broken and confused mind, he's gone and done a small part of the very best thing he could ever do with our military.
--
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Monday December 31 2018, @06:52PM (8 children)
I agree with a lot of that sentiment, but I definitely question the idea that our allies would not be standing without our "help". For instance, the EU has the hardware and personnel to protect themselves from just about anyone trying to go after them, especially if the UK is helping them out, and they built most of that hardware themselves. The most powerful military in the Middle East, by a wide margin, is the Israeli Defense Force. Japan and South Korea aren't slouches when it comes to military preparedness. Neither is India. This idea that the US is the "protector of the free world" has been complete BS for a very long time.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Monday December 31 2018, @08:08PM (1 child)
Glad I didn't make any such claim, then. 😊
--
Knock softly, but firmly. I like soft, firm knockers.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday December 31 2018, @11:24PM
"Knock softly, but firmly. I like soft, firm knockers."
I like my knockers Al denté too!
:)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 31 2018, @10:04PM (2 children)
I definitely question the idea that our allies would not be standing without our "help". For instance, the EU has the hardware and personnel to protect themselves from just about anyone trying to go after them
You're nuts! They would be going after each other the moment the US steps out. It would be good old time feudal battles all over again with those people. Look at the crazy kooks they elect now. Europe is more tribal than Africa. Their 'civility' is a very thin veneer, painted on by an irresistible force.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 31 2018, @10:20PM (1 child)
> They [EU] would be going after each other the moment the US steps out.
Yep, the tribes of Europe live on, and on, and on...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 01 2019, @03:33AM
Not anymore. They have been invaded. Slowly they will be bred out.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday January 01 2019, @01:22AM (1 child)
That's theoretically true, but in practice it's not that simple. The EU has a lot of people, and all the economic and technical power needed to build a peerless military. But the nation most likely to lead them is Germany, and nobody likes the Germans. Also, the Europeans have never projected military might as a continent, by consensus. It's not in their experience. They can't even, as the EU, agree how to handle a handful of refugees from Syria (really, the EU could absorb every Syrian in the world and not even notice, so it's not a question of culture, numbers, or cost).
Japan spends a lot on its military, but its national will to project its military might has not returned since the humiliation of the Second World War. South Korea doesn't know where it's going at the moment, except that China's looking big and scary and that they still really hate the Japanese; oh well, let's listen to some more K-Pop.
India is a large country and has nuclear weapons, but it feels itself hemmed in by Pakistan and its new buddy China. That's its geopolitical preoccupation. They are not interested in protecting the free world at all. They couldn't even be bothered to take out the hapless Somali pirates by projecting its naval power over the Indian Ocean, which would have been a natural entree if they had any interest in hegemony.
In short, it's anyone's game. The US is tired of footing the bill for all its "allies." China is puffing itself up to be big and scary when the reality is they have feet of clay. Putin's playing a weak, weak hand. Everyone else is looking around, worried about their own restive populations, and wondering what's gonna happen next.
These are the times that historic locations are made of.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 01 2019, @03:03AM
Don't sell Putin so short. I don't think his hand is anywhere near as weak as he wants people to believe. He's probably quite happy that the eyes are on China rather than Russia - it gives him more maneuverability.
As for China's feet of clay? That's irrelevant, when that mudslide reaches you you're gone baby.
(Score: 3, Informative) by deimtee on Tuesday January 01 2019, @01:41AM
Do you have any idea how much of that is due to USA money and arms?
Even just read the first sentence: https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-looks-at-massive-military-aircraft-purchase-from-us-firm-boeing/ [timesofisrael.com]
Israel wanting more just because USA aids SA: https://www.timesofisrael.com/pm-says-us-agreed-to-boost-israel-military-aid-amid-concern-over-saudi-deal/ [timesofisrael.com]
Deal didn't go ahead at the time but, 20 free F35's was realistic?: https://www.timesofisrael.com/barak-claims-tense-netanyahu-obama-relations-scuttled-gift-of-free-f-35s/ [timesofisrael.com]
And from a non-israeli source, some sobering reading while contemplating your national debt: https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2018/03/understanding-military-aid-israel-180305092533077.html [aljazeera.com]
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 31 2018, @06:52PM
Damned if he does damned if he doesn't
(Score: 5, Informative) by fritsd on Monday December 31 2018, @07:52PM (2 children)
In other news..
In Syria's neigbouring country, Iraq, the Trumps and John Bolton made a surprise visit on 25 december.
Apparently overjoyed by Trump's sudden decision to withdraw his troops from their neighbours, Iraqi parliamentarians asked if the USA could now also please bugger off from Iraq:
Iraqi lawmakers demand US withdraw troops after surprise Trump visit [theguardian.com]
Unfortunately,
From another article [theguardian.com]:
Maybe they should have asked him to please, please, keep his soldiers in Iraq. Then they'd have got rid of them in a matter of days, and the soldiers would have had new year at home! :-)
The USA's allies in the region (except for Turkey) seem slightly flabbergasted by the sudden change of plan by the US government:
Avec leur départ de Syrie, les Etats-Unis prennent de court leurs alliés et comblent leurs adversaires [lemonde.fr]
It could be that the North Syrian Kurds fighting ISIS with the USA's help are now going to be butchered by Turkish troups. I don't understand who benefits from this except for ISIS.
Apparently it's an odd multi-ethnic region and they respect libraries and women and cooperatives:
DFNS [wikipedia.org]
Oh. Maybe a case of "the spice must flow".
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday January 01 2019, @01:25AM
That's one outcome, but it's not one the Turks want. They have targets on both those groups. Erdogan wants to reprise the Ottoman Empire's hegemony in the region. Turkey's bid to join the EU was rebuffed, so they're looking to build their security in other ways.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Tuesday January 01 2019, @05:10AM
Then let the warmongers declare war. I would love to pull out of Iraq, but I am content with Syria and 7k troops from Afghanistan. Warmongers gotta monger war.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam