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posted by Fnord666 on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:39AM   Printer-friendly
from the bigger-scissors dept.

Despite criticism and complaints, MIT won't cut ties to Saudi Arabia

MIT won't sever its financial and research ties to Saudi Arabian government groups over the brutal killing of a journalist, despite the urging of many faculty and students, and complaints by some of the university's female researchers that they face more restrictions than their male colleagues when working in the Saudi kingdom.

On Wednesday, MIT president, L. Rafael Reif, denounced the behavior of the Saudi regime for violating human rights but rejected calls to unilaterally pull out of engagements in the Middle Eastern country.

MIT needs to provide faculty autonomy to decide whether they want to remain on the current projects and can't abandon those in Saudi Arabia, including alumni, who are trying to modernize the kingdom, Reif said.

"MIT utterly condemns such brutal human rights violations, discrimination and suppression of dissent, including the murder of Jamal Khashoggi," Reif said in a message to the MIT community. "Nevertheless, I hope we can respond to present circumstances in a way that does not suddenly reject, abandon, or isolate worthy Saudi people who share our principles and are doing good work."


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  • (Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:13AM

    by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:13AM (#797689) Homepage Journal

    He knows what's good for him. Great decision!

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:31AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:31AM (#797694)

    That's right. Neither will Israel.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @12:23PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @12:23PM (#797719)

      That's right. Neither will Israel.

      Israel's relationship with the Sauds is complex.

      Do I think they'd like to be rid of them? yes, as they're under no illusions about them and know that they'd knife Israel in the back at the same time as they're busily shaking their hands, but hey, as a family they've proven over the past 150 years or so that they're easily controlled if you shake enough shekels at them, better the devil you know (and can bribe) than the ones you don't, as they say..

      So, as it stands, they're a 'known quantity' and nominally 'allies', (and I'm sure various security services have their useful dossiers on the antics of various members of the Sauds abroad since the 70's...what goes on in Thailand stays in Thailand, eh? oh! guardians of the holy mosques....).

      The fact that the Saudis are the ones financing the spread of global Islamic fuckwittery doesn't exactly hurt Israel (See!, see!, our ancient enemies the sand niggers hate us!, poor little Israel!), let's be realistic, if things got really nasty, Israel can turn both Mecca and Medina (and many other targets) into puddles of gently glowing glass in the sands if they choose to do so, and I don't think they'd pay much heed to the lamentations of their circumcised slaves in the West in these regards..

      As to the MIT statement, I was particularly amused by '...who are trying to modernize the kingdom..' suuure they are...there's modernising, and then there's modernising...all I see here are idiots greedy for oil money putting 21st century technologies into the hands of a people and culture who, despite their modern looking trappings, still have a 18th century mindset at best (6th century at worst*). Now, what could possibly go wrong with that?

      *I mean, WTF?, It's the 21st century, people nowadays normally don't go about sending teams of assassins abroad to behead their enemies and getting one of them to take the head back to you in a nice shiny case on the first available flight (to enable you to do what?, gloat?, very classy, very modern..).

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @02:40PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @02:40PM (#797769)

        In the 1980s, Israel was BFFs with the shady states of the day, Taiwan and South Africa. Today it is Saudi Arabia. The kind of company they keep doesn't change.

        • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:00PM

          by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:00PM (#797990)

          In the 1980's (and 1970's and 1960's etc) there were two teams "us" and "them".

          "They" were evil, brutal dictators, while "we" were freedom loving democracies.

          That is why Israel (and every other country on our team) supported the freedom loving democrats that ran Taiwan, South Africa, Indonesia, South Korea, Vietnam, Spain, Portugal, Chile,... (you can add to this list if you like).

          Oh look, nothing has really changed. Some of our friends are still arseholes.
           

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:59AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:59AM (#797717)

    But on the other hand at edX's MIT were quick to suddenly reject, abandon, and isolate worthy students (allegedly because were students from US trade embargoed countries like Cuba, Venezuela or Iran) and denying them even the free certificates after completing their online courses.

    You know, free or peanuts in one hand, bloody petrodollars on the other. Decisions, decisions.

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday February 07 2019, @03:25PM

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Thursday February 07 2019, @03:25PM (#797791) Homepage

      Where in living fuck did anybody claim that MIT was altrustic? They've been by far one of the biggest, if not the biggest bootlicking anti-freedom organizations in history.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @04:11PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @04:11PM (#797819)

      Just to clarify, students from those countries can follow the courses.
      It's only after they complete the courses that edX gives them the finger and denies them their worthless certificate of completion.

  • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @01:11PM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @01:11PM (#797730)

    It's not exactly like they are good guys.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @02:00PM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @02:00PM (#797758)

      Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday February 07 2019, @03:55PM (4 children)

        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Thursday February 07 2019, @03:55PM (#797807) Homepage
        When your conscience says law is immoral, don't follow it.
        --
        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @04:47PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @04:47PM (#797838)

          Then you'd better prepare to accept the consequences.
          We don't live in a society where people can ignore laws if they feel like it. Imagine the result if everyone did that... One's effort, unless he is an idiot, is better spent in getting the law changed so that a real and lasting effect is produced. I have little sympathy for Shwartz. His actions were stupid, needless, and cowardly -- the opposite of the smart and brave lionization he has received.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @07:03PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @07:03PM (#797886)

            Imagine the result if everyone did that...

            And there it is: The slippery slope fallacy that is often used in this kind of discussion. 'But if some people ignore unjust/unconstitutional laws, they should be punished because otherwise everyone would ignore all laws!' Of course, it makes the assumption that people believe that all laws are equal, which is simply not the case. Many laws are blatantly unjust and unconstitutional, and should be treated as such (i.e. ignored).

            You're going beyond just saying, 'If you break the law, you might be punished.' You're actually opposing breaking certain laws, whether they are unjust or not. That makes you a government bootlicker and an authoritarian.

            One's effort, unless he is an idiot, is better spent in getting the law changed so that a real and lasting effect is produced.

            Civil disobedience is one way to get laws to change. Ignoring the laws on a massive scale and making life hell for those who try to enforce them is another.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @01:40PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @01:40PM (#798281)

              since you are pedantically criticizing my post, I must point out the flaw in yours.
                slippery slope does not apply. I said imagine if everyone did that. slippery slope would apply if I said we must not let a single person do that.

                The reason I phrased it this way is because the person I was replying to said that ignoring laws that you don't agree with is a general valid solution. it is not.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:16PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:16PM (#797940)

            fuck you and your law, you pig loving motherfucker.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @04:07PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @04:07PM (#797818)

      So sad. Until the past century MIT was a real hacker, maker and tinkerer paradise, but after 2000 lost its ways.

      Then afterwards in less than 10 years they proved, carved in stone, that now MIT was an hostile environment for altruists hackers with what they did to Aaron Swartz.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @05:18PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @05:18PM (#797849)

      When Gamergate happened MIT Media Lab slurped up all of the identities of the people discussing it on Twitter and sent their info to Qatar.

  • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Thursday February 07 2019, @03:21PM (6 children)

    by RamiK (1813) on Thursday February 07 2019, @03:21PM (#797787)

    Torture... Child execution... Racist and gender discrimination in the justice system and economic sectors... Should they buy a ship and teach from there? The Saudis are just targeting different minority groups using different methods. Some of those methods are more barbaric. But then you have the US keeping single digits percentages of its population behind bars for slave labor based on the skin of their color and political affiliation.

    --
    compiling...
    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @04:53PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @04:53PM (#797843)

      Your last sentence is complete bullshit and mars the rest of your unrelated comment.
      The VAST, VAST majority of people in prison are there because they legitimately committed a crime and deserve to be there. Don't let the tiny number of wrongful convictions mislead you about the truth for the overwhelming a majority of prisoners.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @07:07PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @07:07PM (#797889)

        The VAST, VAST majority of people in prison are there because they legitimately committed a crime and deserve to be there.

        So people deserve to be in prison for possession of drugs, for example?

        Don't let the tiny number of wrongful convictions mislead you about the truth for the overwhelming a majority of prisoners.

        Taking into account the plea bargaining system, and the fact that prosecutors almost never care how many innocents they convict as long as they get their promotions, we can't even be sure of the exact number of people who didn't commit a crime at all who are in prison.

        Your faith in the system is foolish and unsurprising, authoritarian.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:19PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:19PM (#797942)

        what a stupid motherfucker. having a plant in your pocket is a crime? well fuck you and your slave state.

      • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:31PM

        by RamiK (1813) on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:31PM (#797947)

        The VAST, VAST majority of people in prison are there because they legitimately committed a crime

        No they're not: https://www.innocenceproject.org/dna-exonerations-in-the-united-states/ [innocenceproject.org]

        And as the other anon said, if you just google "drug war nixon blacks" this will explain the underlying issue: http://www.aei.org/publication/the-shocking-and-sickening-story-behind-nixons-war-on-drugs-that-targeted-blacks-and-anti-war-activists/ [aei.org]

        And when you add up the fact almost no one bothered covering this [wikipedia.org] you start realizing the US choice of allies befits its moral character much like how people make friends whether it's Britain, Saudi Arabia or Israel.

        And btw, this is coming from a guy who happens to support Israel and the US in most cases since I acknowledge the other side of the equation is Russia and China and they're just more of the same.

        --
        compiling...
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:22PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:22PM (#797945)

      economic sectors? you mean private businesses? none of the state's business who i hire or associate with. fuck your "good authoritarianism".

      • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:04PM

        by RamiK (1813) on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:04PM (#797968)

        economic sectors? you mean private businesses? none of the state's business who i hire or associate with.

        The US employs a form of affirmative action / reverse discrimination that been shown to harm to the lower-income classes it claims to aid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States#Class_inequality [wikipedia.org]

        And since those classes are largely populated by racial minorities... Yes. Everyone who takes part in the economy is complicit to systematic racial discrimination. Only reason I left out the public sector is because the police's hiring are restricted to mid-low classes from the get go so affirmative action works there. Of course, that's like complimenting the inquisition for their fair wages policy... Not so much a drop in the bucket as it's the spark that set the fire.

        fuck your "good authoritarianism".

        Good authoritarianism? I'm laying out the kind of arguments that justify a "lets chop down the 1% heads" type of bloody revolution here... Only reason I'm against such an act is because Trump has managed to galvanize everyone against this status quo to such a degree I honestly believe the next administration will have enough of a moral mandate to correct most of this. And, as mentioned in the other post, the Chinese and Russians are even worse.

        --
        compiling...
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Thursday February 07 2019, @05:48PM

    by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Thursday February 07 2019, @05:48PM (#797858)

    Talk about timing, saw this on a bumper sticker yesterday:

    "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. -Desmond Tutu"

    The blacks in South Africa had more rights under Apartheid than most people, especially women, have in Saudi Arabia.

    --
    "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
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