Senate approves Syria, anti-BDS[*] bill
The Senate passed legislation on Thursday breaking with President Trump's Syria policy. Senators voted 77-23 to send the legislation to the House that includes a provision warning Trump against a "precipitous" withdrawal of troops from Syria and Afghanistan. It also asks the administration to certify that certain conditions have been met "for the enduring defeat of al Qaeda and ISIS before initiating any significant withdrawal of United States forces from Syria or Afghanistan."
[...] In addition to the Syria amendment, the bill also included sanctions against the Syrian government, increased support for Israel and Jordan and a provision that would let states penalize businesses that take part in boycotts or divestments of Israel.
Both the Syria amendment and the anti-BDS provisions sparked division among Democrats. [...] Democrats had raised First Amendment concerns about the anti-BDS provision, which splintered most of the party's 2020 contenders and caucus leadership. "While I do not support the BDS movement, we must defend every American's constitutional right to engage in political activity. It is clear to me that this bill would violate Americans' First Amendment rights," Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said in a statement last week.
[*] BDS: boycott, divestment and sanctions.
Also at NYT.
See also: Is the Anti-BDS Bill Constitutional? Yes, But...
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @07:38PM
make israel great again
(Score: 5, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Thursday February 07 2019, @07:41PM (49 children)
Then we must leave. Theoretically speaking of course. But, might makes right, so there ya go.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 4, Interesting) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday February 07 2019, @07:47PM (12 children)
I'm prepared to accept that Mr. Trump is always wrong about everything, but I would also like to see the US stop undermining countries whose governments they disapprove of, and in this case I probably can't have both.
Can anyone explain to me why there are still US troops in Afghanistan after all these years?
Have the lives of the average Afghan got better? Is their government able to manage the whole country yet? If not, why not? What is the goal here?
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:37PM
Give it a bit longer, we're still in the process of surrendering to the forces we invaded to oust ~20 years ago, and condemning our puppets to hang from the street lights sans testicles.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:43PM (1 child)
Trump is sometimes right, but he's right for the exact reason a stopped clock is sometimes right.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:18PM
The very few things Trump is right about could have trillion dollar implications.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Freeman on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:04PM (4 children)
"... I would also like to see the US stop undermining countries whose governments they disapprove of ..." That's not going to happen. Pretty much every president that's held office since I've been alive has done that. It definitely isn't a new thing. I mean, we did it nearly from the very beginning of our History, in Tripoli.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Arik on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:44PM (3 children)
The only two that seemed just a little skeptical of it were Carter and Trump. And the mainstream media turned on both viciously and attempted to hamper them at every turn.
"I mean, we did it nearly from the very beginning of our History, in Tripoli."
I don't think that part is accurate at all though. That was not going abroad in search of monsters to destroy. These were literal pirate states that had been extorting incredible sums of money from us. We did just what we had to - paid just long enough to build a fleet and then we quit paying. The Pascha declared war on us. I don't see any resemblance there to the wars we see now.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Friday February 08 2019, @03:56PM (2 children)
ISIS didn't declare war on the USA? The terrorists that attacked the USA on 9/11 didn't declare war on the USA? You can claim whatever you like, but the USA was definitely fighting a war. Just a whole lot more complicated war.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Arik on Friday February 08 2019, @04:58PM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday February 09 2019, @12:23AM
Don't get me wrong, I can see how you see parallels. There are some; they're particularly unsavory adversaries, particularly barbaric and inhumane, both profess Islam. But overall the situations are very very different. We were in no sense responsible for the existence of the Barbary states, we did our best to live and let live, we fought them when forced.
ISIS wouldn't even exist if not for US foreign policy. It wouldn't exist without the invasion of Iraq; the destruction of that country, and the resulting conditions gave it birth. That's a big difference.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by fustakrakich on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:49PM
Can anyone explain to me why there are still US troops in Afghanistan after all these years?
Oh hell! That's easy! [bbc.co.uk] No, wait... [nytimes.com]
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @04:01AM (1 child)
Perhaps more to the point, why are there still US troops in Germany and Japan? If you want to be consistent then you may wish to ponder that one as well.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 09 2019, @01:28AM
US troops are in Europe to prevent the reemergence of the Holy Roman Empire. What, you thought the war was over?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @07:20PM
Afganistan has large uranium deposits
The US wants to control those
(Score: 2) by richtopia on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:07PM (13 children)
Was the USA not invited? It is a civil war, so when would you identify a rebel group as a separate entity capable of inviting other states for support?
The USA backs the Syrian Democratic Forces: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Democratic_Forces [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Immerman on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:31PM (1 child)
Indeed. Heck, if we're being consistent, shouldn't France have stayed out of that little North American rebellion, rather than helping a bunch of terrorists overthrow the legitimate British government? And Mexico should have minded it's own business, rather than helping turn the tide of the American Civil War.
On the other hand, it would be *really* nice to see the U.S. limit itself to backing groups that actually agree with our supposed ideals of freedom and democracy, rather than the far more common trend of overthrowing those groups in order to install ruthless dictators willing to align themselves with prominent business interests.
(Score: 2) by RandomFactor on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:21PM
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100213154400AAisayB [yahoo.com]
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:32PM (10 children)
Invited or not, this is an unconstitutional war, like so many others.
And, of course, the warmongers jammed in some blatantly unconstitutional nonsense in with their warmongering bill...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:45PM (9 children)
Please clarify, why is it an unconstitutional war?
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:09PM (8 children)
Any war not declared by Congress is unconstitutional, and we are engaged in several such wars. They try to play semantics with the word "war" to get around this, preferring instead to call these wars something else.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:59PM (7 children)
Gray area. It is unfortunate that congress has abdicated much of it's authority to the president by passing the war powers acts. Ditto with immigration. Congress critters are far more interested in enriching themselves, than doing their jobs, so they grant powers to the president which aren't properly under his authority.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @04:16AM (1 child)
You seem to have forgotten what it was like to live through the Cold War. The war powers acts were passed so that the Commander in Chief would not have his hands tied in the event that the Soviet Union launched an all-out surprise attack that required quick action. The intention was that this would give the CiC a free hand to respond in real time to imminent threats; once the real time threat had been dealt with, the CiC was supposed to go to Congress to get approval for a longer term military engagement. (I seem to recall 60 days as being the time limit.) Of course, I do think you have a good point that, in practice, this has been used by Congress to abdicate it's constitutional authority. Sometimes, they do summon a modest bit of courage to push back against encroachment by the executive branch, but those moments are depressingly rare.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday February 08 2019, @04:39PM
That's almost amusing. 1961, I was five years old, and starting first grade. To register for school at Walmo Elementary, in Neshannock Township, Lawrence County, Pennsylvania at that time, new students had to see the school nurse, the principal, a couple different teachers, and pass a few small tests. The nurse was downstairs, in the basement. To get to the nurse's station, one had to walk past a chain mesh gate that protected the entrance to a fall out shelter. Food and water enough to feed ~ 150 people for some period of time, I think it was 3 months. That was my first inkling that there was a Cold War.
That Cold War lasted long enough for me to grow up, serve eight years in the military, and then to start a family.
No, I haven't forgotten.
It's CONVENIENT for one man to have all the power of the War Powers acts. That doesn't mean that congress acted wisely.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @07:12PM (4 children)
Not a gray area. Congress has the power to declare war, but doesn't have the power to give the president its own power to declare war. If you disagree, tell me where in the Constitution it says otherwise.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday February 08 2019, @07:42PM (3 children)
I'm too tired for this, but yes, it's a gray area. We can agree that the executive branch has the power and authority to react to an emergency, even in the absence of congressional approval? That much is certainly constitutional. He can't declare a formal war, but he can take (limited) action to address an emergency.
Problem is, how one defines "emergency". Like, civil war in Syria, we donate arms and funds to "rebels", then learn that those "rebels" are beasts of an entirely different stripe. So, terrorists are using our weapons and our money to create an army of jihadis. So, is this an emergency? Maybe. But, what do we do? We redouble our efforts to topple Syria's government. Stupid? How does that address the jihadi army? WTF? Tired or not, I've never seen any sense in any of that. But, emergency. The president can decide to put boots on the ground to address this half-imagined emergency of our own making.
And, in fact, the Senate has warned the president NOT TO WITHDRAW from Syria - despite the fact that there has been no declaration of war against Syria. And, we're all left scratching our heads, wondering WTF. So, the executive is exercising it's proper authority to react to a self inflicted emergency, at the behest of a congress/senate that refuses to declare war, but refuses to allow our troops to leave a sovereign nation. It's all kinds of gray here, if you ask me. There is no black, no white, no colors at all, just gray.
The War Powers acts just add confusion to the already sordid tale. Genuine constitutional scholars probably have problems deciding whether we've done anything right, or it's all wrong.
Overall, we have to give congress an FF. Not a mere F for failure, but an FF for fucking failure. Or, maybe TFF, the T for total.
The whole War Powers thing needs to be determine to be constitutional, or unconstitutional before we can address specific actions taken by the executive. With that out of the way, we might begin to see some blacks, some whites, and some colors. Until then, nothing but confusing grays.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @05:31PM (2 children)
If you're saying the military can wage war in another country without a declaration of war, then we don't agree. The army can defend what is inside US borders, but without a declaration of war, it cannot do more than that. So, the army invading another country without a declaration of war from Congress is out of the question. Period.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 10 2019, @05:53PM (1 child)
We're pretty much in agreement. By "emergency" I mean that the US and/or it's territories are under attack. But, then, there are some shady areas again. We have a ship, an army division, or some such, in a foreign land, on some peaceful mission. They're attacked, by some third party. Quite naturally, they have a right to defend themselves. The pres sends in air support, and reinforcements. Is that right, or should he have just evacuated our troops as quickly as possible? I can go on, but that should be enough of an example. There are times and places when an emergency might justify war-like acts in foreign lands.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 11 2019, @08:06PM
We're not just defending ourselves from immediate attacks, but waging war offensively. That's the difference. For Syria and all these others middle eastern countries, the answer is obvious: Pull all troops out immediately.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:07PM (17 children)
The USA shouldn't be the Earths police force, and not be the escape route (from the south) for those that don't even want to fight corruption in their home country. If you oppose the border wall, then remove your front door to let anyone into your house at any time.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:46PM (16 children)
The wall doesn't work. Most "illegal immigration" is visa fraud, i.e., overstaying a perfectly legal visa once already in the country. Ain't no wall gonna help with that. Ditto drugs: if we're serious about stopping the flow of drugs, we'd be beefing up security at ports of entry. There are ways to do border security right, but a literal stupid wall on the literal geographic border isn't one of them.
Passing legislation that liquidates any company found hiring illegal immigrants, now, THAT would put a dent in the problem right quick :) Buuuuuuut plenty of shady SOBs got rich that way, so that'll happen the day unprocessed bacon becomes aerodynamic.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:01PM
That visa fraud talking point is simply irrelevant.
Like GP said - if you oppose the wall, then you should remove all obstacles that prevent random people from walking into your home whenever they feel like it.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:02PM (13 children)
Does your front door keep criminals out? Did the great wall of china work? SJWs have an IQ lower than a rock. Build the wall.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:09PM (12 children)
Let me clue you in on something: doors, deadbolts, and similar are there to keep out the lazy, the stupid, and the weak. If a criminal wants into your place of residence bad enough, he *will* get in (and it's almost always going to be a he). Even I can think of a way to B&E very easily and cheaply that bypasses pretty much any form of mechanical lock that isn't a huge solenoid or full-door security system.
And, again: most of the drugs are coming in through ports of entry and a hell of a lot of illegals came here perfectly legally. There is an incentive somewhere to keep the flow of illegals, and I've named it: virtual slave labor, especially in the food industry, specifically in meatpacking and produce harvesting.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:23PM (5 children)
Really good contributions in this thread though. Thanks.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:46PM (4 children)
"A woman would rarely need to risk herself like that. She just sends some hapless guy to do the burglary for him."
So you admit gender is fluid?
(Score: 2, Funny) by fustakrakich on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:56PM
So you admit gender is fluid?
Well, we are 60% water, more or less
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:56PM (2 children)
She would send him to steal stuff for *him.* Things he REALLY needs, in order to be able to provide for her properly.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @01:09AM (1 child)
It was just a joke, but even your re-interpretation still doesn't make sense. Easier to fess up to a mistake then twist yourself in circles trying to avoid it.
(Score: 1) by Arik on Friday February 08 2019, @02:35AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @05:25AM (4 children)
Just playing devils advocate here, but aren't those the immigrants you don't want?
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday February 08 2019, @06:49AM (3 children)
...the point is that the ones who get through the wall are motivated criminals, man. It's by analogy with the fact that no standard residential front door will stop a determined criminal from getting in, and even I have at least one method I know works.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @07:15AM (1 child)
> ..the point is that the ones who get through the wall are motivated criminals, man.
Yes, with or without a wall the determined criminals will get in. The point was that a wall will keep out the lazy, the stupid and the weak.
They are just a drain on society, and without them, the criminals will find it harder to hide.
> It's by analogy with the fact that no standard residential front door will stop a determined criminal from getting in, and even I have at least one method I know works.
Yes, but I bet you still have a lock on your door because it does keep out the lazy, stupid and weak.
Damn, I've almost convinced myself that the wall is a good idea.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 09 2019, @06:04AM
In this case, to expand the analogy further, you're saying "well, criminals are still getting in even though you have a cheap, flimsy door. Make a better one." But then the data show that most of them are actually people I invited in as guests and gave a copy of my house keys to, and that the ones leaving drug paraphernalia in my house are actually dropping it in through the chimney rather than the front door.
Does that help any?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @05:37PM
You don't have to be motivated to use a ladder. Literally, there are videos of people using ladders are other simple tools to climb over the sections of the US border that actually do have walls. So, Trump's wall is also useless at keeping out the occasional intruder.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @07:26PM
Seems like a good reason to build the wall: lazy, stupid and weak are definately characteristics we don't want to import
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @06:25PM
Is it even visa fraud?
My understanding was that much of the visa problem stems from the fact that processing a visa extension takes more time than the visa or the extension. So much of the illegal immigration is actually people stuck behind red tape.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by DannyB on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:07PM (3 children)
That sounds so nice.
What if other major super powers hostile to the US don't obey that rule?
How long before they are on the doorstep of our allies? How long before they invade our allies? Think it can't happen? But then I guess there would be no more need for Brexit. And no more need for Freedom Fries.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:49PM
Please identify all those superpowers first, and then we will discuss one country after another. It's not like the planet is teeming with superpowers so much that they are hiding behind every corner and are ready to cross the border. Many may say that the USA is the only superpower currently.
In other words, who are you afraid of? Who may have determination and capabilities to attack the USA? Why will they do that, once the USA stops targeting those countries and intervening in their affairs?
Currently the US policy is like a bully who picks fights everywhere and needs more and more protection against the enemies that he made himself. The only winners here are the MIC and its propagandists in Congress, who authorize more weapons and more war to use the bombs up and immediately start making more.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:19PM
There aren't any of those, but there will be; China in particular is going to be too big for us to possibly contain soon. And when we criticize them for that, the hypocrisy of the criticism will be a gift. I'm sure they'll be appropriately grateful.
"How long before they are on the doorstep of our allies? How long before they invade our allies? Think it can't happen?"
Oh it absolutely CAN happen, that's the whole point. That's just *one* of the reasons why running around the world organizing coups and arming rebels and "color revolutions" and stationing troops wherever we please is a bad idea. It not only generates ill will quite effectively, it not only costs a lot of money at a time when we're deep in debt and our infrastructure is poor, it also repudiates and weakness that whole notion of international law as well.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday February 08 2019, @03:30AM
How long before they are on the doorstep of our allies? How long before they invade our allies?
They can call, or they can leave a message on Twitter. Prez probably doesn't have time to pick up the phone. I wonder if he can type fast like those kids do.
Point is, you don't go in uninvited, unless you can prove they present real danger outside their borders and the neighbors ask for help, or you got other plans. Pretty straight up.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @07:50PM (32 children)
Just elect him already, he is clearly one of the few politicians with principles and his stance here should convince you libertarians. Yes universal healthcare will mean more taxes, but it will eliminate the "benefits" aspect of employment and reduce small business overhead. Also, we pay the money to insurance anyway for worse care.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:04PM (6 children)
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:03PM (5 children)
Ah yes, let us cave to the idiocy of the masses. There is widespread support for universal healthcare and it doesn't help to lie about the taxes. The best way to sell it is to mandate that all medical benefit programs currently being paid by businesses will take that money and give it directly to employees. That would mitigate some of the financial impact.
"Besides, everyone knows that the tax monies will be misused, and when it comes to the healthcare, you will get a bandaid on your broken leg and sent home."
riiiiight
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:38PM (4 children)
Let's not forget that the money we pay to insurance companies (At least those of us 'lucky' enough to even be able to afford even that!) is already horribly misused. We pay insane amounts of money and get private death panels, where insurance companies will try to wiggle out of paying for life-saving medical procedures so that they can save a few bucks, which endangers lives and/or forces people into massive debt. We pay insane amounts of money and get inadequate care, where many important medical procedures and medications are simply not covered at all. We pay insane amounts of money, only for a relatively small fraction (compared to medicare) of it to go towards actual healthcare.
We can't afford to do single payer? No, we can't afford not to do single payer. Pretty much every study shows that we would net save money in the long run with single payer over the current system.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:34PM (1 child)
I'm in WA State an self-employed. There are fewer companies to choose from and prices keep rising and benefits keep falling. I'm paying near $1400/mo for the crappiest HSA plan out there -- if I do use a doctor, I just get a full bill for it several weeks later. It's the most useless waste of money.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:34PM
That's for me and my wife, but still, 700 each for nothing is a real scam.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:42PM (1 child)
Everything you described is caused by intervention into the healthcare market. More intervention is not the solution. Ending the intervention is the solution.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:54PM
And if you believe that I've got a fancy new stent for sale to help bridge that cholesterol blockage before you die!
(Score: 1, Troll) by Bot on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:10PM (11 children)
Universal healthcare means scrapping insurance, nationalizing everything pharmaceutical production included. If you merely focus on who has to pay for the existing system, you have just worked for the insurance, not for the health. Is Bernie good enough to fight deep state? how old will he be BTW?
Account abandoned.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:02PM
"Universal healthcare means scrapping insurance, nationalizing everything pharmaceutical production included."
Oh really?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:06PM (1 child)
You've spent the last two years championing the orange idiot who is destroying the country and giving handouts to the elites, yet somehow you've deluded yourself into thinking he is fighting the deep state?
I think my eyes just rolled out of my head.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Sunday February 10 2019, @03:37PM
What does Trump alias Berlusconi the second have to do with bernie fighting deep state?
Account abandoned.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Thexalon on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:09PM (6 children)
Only if you think Canada and Cuba have identical health care systems.
While the Canadian NHS isn't perfect, it's a heck of a lot better than what the US has, unless your goal is maximizing shareholder value rather than maximizing average life expectancy and quality of life of your citizens.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @05:57AM (2 children)
It’s so good U.S. citizens fly north for surgeries they need immediately!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @09:01PM
Over 10,000 people die a year in the US due to lack of access to healthcare. So, rather than flying north, they just die or go into massive debt.
You need to stop watching Fox News. For the average person, Canada's system is better than the one in the US. Though, there may be even better single payer systems out there, and it's all down to implementation.
(Score: 3, Informative) by dry on Saturday February 09 2019, @04:12AM
No, they also drive. It's a problem, Americans showing up, making up or borrowing a CARE (in BC) number and using our healthcare system.
(Score: 2) by dry on Saturday February 09 2019, @04:23AM (2 children)
Canada doesn't have a NHS, 14 individual health systems between the Provinces, Territories and Federal government. The Federal government does set minimums and transfer money around (and is responsible for veterans, natives and such), money that the Provinces don't get if they don't follow the feds guidelines. Healthcare actually started at the Provincial level and like America, the Federal government can't force the Provinces to do healthcare and the feds currently treat the territories much as if they were sovereign Provinces.
America could probably do similar and stay within your Constitution, I believe highway funding is already similar.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday February 09 2019, @07:06PM (1 child)
Ah, my mistake. I should have consulted with my Canadian friends before posting.
And yes, US federal highway funds do work like you think they do.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by dry on Saturday February 09 2019, @07:35PM
Even a lot of Canadians probably don't realize how it works, mostly as they don't think about it as it mostly just works and there isn't much difference in different parts of the country. OTOH, when outsiders talk about waiting lists and such, it's likely they're referring to particular Provinces. And the rising costs are a big problem nationwide.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Friday February 08 2019, @12:18AM
Huh? You talking about some specific proposals or generally about Universal healthcare? There are many countries with universal healthcare and insurance; insurance is still there to provide a better experience over the basic safety net for those that can afford it. They are not mutually exclusive.
Come now, don't be binary Bot!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:00PM (3 children)
Nice try, BernieBro, but no dice. It is Hillary's turn in 2020.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:36PM (1 child)
I don't know whether to mod you troll or funny -- there should be a funnyTroll mod that neither increases nor decreases the moderation score.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @03:46AM
As it should be. Correcting the record is, after all, a thankless task...
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @05:34AM
If the democrats are actually stupid enough to put Hillary up again you can look forward to another four years of Trump. The people who voted for him last time aren't that unhappy with him, and any defectors will be more than made up for by people pissed that the DNC didn't get the message last time.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by slinches on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:32PM (3 children)
Is it better to have someone in office that keeps to his principles if they are nearly the opposite of your own?
Besides, the problem with healthcare isn't who "pays" (in reality, we always pay). It's the high costs and complete lack of transparency in pricing. The health care and health insurance companies have effectively eliminated any means of open market competition with their insane billing practices. There's no way to know how much anything will cost until weeks or months after the service is rendered. We need to fix that. Health care providers need to publish their costs for various services and charge everyone the same. That way people can make informed decisions where to spend their health care dollars and the most cost efficient and effective providers can be rewarded with the additional business they deserve. Eventually, cost will come down as providers compete for business.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @05:48AM (1 child)
You need to decouple health insurance from employment. It was an anti-inflation dodge from WW2 and has fucked up your system ever since.*
Start by fixing the system that says employer-paid insurance is a business expense, but private must be paid for with post tax income. Simply make private health insurance a tax deduction and then start ramping down the deduction that businesses can claim when they pay it.
*It persists because businesses like it because it makes people reluctant to quit, which means they can pay lower wages and health insurance companies like it because it means they can just sign contracts with employers and don't have to compete for individual customers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @05:13PM
While I agree with you up to this point, I also think there are a couple of gotchas that need to be worked out. One of the benefits of getting your insurance through an employer is that you belong to a pool that has collective bargaining power. Unfortunately, getting insurance as a private individual makes you lose that collective bargaining power. If I protest that my insurance company should pay for a routine medical procedure it is very easy for them to ignore my pleas. On the other hand, if I am a state government employee it becomes much harder to ignore when the entire State of Arizona or New Mexico tells the insurance company that they will cover my medical procedure or they could end up losing the contract when it comes up for renegotiation in a couple of months. Just a thought.
(Score: 2) by dry on Saturday February 09 2019, @07:43PM
It's hard to have a free market in healthcare as too often the services are required right now, so no shopping around.
Still here (BC), when I go to the Doctors office, they have a price list posted listing those services that aren't covered, ranging from Drs notes (for absences at some jobs) at about $30 to physicals for some types of employment (truck driver etc) at about a $100. They all seem reasonable to me.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:00PM (4 children)
If I vote Democrat again, next election, it will be only for Tulsi. You can tell (((they))) don't like her because the schmear campaigns are already beginning, calling her a "dictator and Russia-lover."
Now what would really make me cream my jeans? A Trump/Gabbard ticket for 2020.
Democrats are playing a brilliant move with the rowdy female freshmen like Alexandria Occasio-Cortez. These supposedly "anti-Israel" women are controlled opposition and provide some hope for disgruntled sick-of-war-and-Israel Democrats, perhaps enough hope to keep them with the party. Hell, Trump may be controlled-opposition, too. But you get only one 9/11 before your people never trust you again, and Trump's 9/11 was his last State of the Union speech.
If Trump doesn't get his ass in gear and fast, his 2020 votes are going to go to Tulsi or some other moderate. Where is Strom Thurmond when you need him?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:01PM (3 children)
Get the fuck outta here, you truly are the worst piece of shit around.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/russia-s-propaganda-machine-discovers-2020-democratic-candidate-tulsi-gabbard-n964261 [nbcnews.com]
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/david-duke-endorses-tulsi-gabbard-2020-campaign/ar-BBTcLR3 [msn.com]
White supremacist and former GOP Louisiana state senator David Duke appeared to endorse Hawaii Rep. Tulsi Gabbard's 2020 campaign for president as other Democrats are being blasted by pro-Israel lobbyists and publications.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:27PM (1 child)
Russia is right. #Gabbard2020
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:49PM
Ha, and Buzzy Boy thinks this site is too small to be targeted by propagandists.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Friday February 08 2019, @02:19AM
Today I read an article about legal problems Alex Jones is having related to making shit up about the Newtown shooting. http://www.wtvm.com/2019/01/12/sandy-hook-families-win-court-victory-against-alex-jones-can-review-infowars-financials/ [wtvm.com]
Then on the way home, I heard some #RussiaRussiaRussia bullshit on a call-in radio show where the caller was talking drivel about how if Trump is afraid of the Russians they must have dirt on him. The dissonance struck me hard. Jones is a nut who is annoying to several people who suffered a personal tragedy, but not a worldwide catastrophe in the making. Reigniting the cold war with similar nut-case bullshit is an exponentially large number of orders of magnitude worse, and yet, here we are with MSM beating the drums of Armageddon and idiots everywhere buying in.
Fucking christ on a stick. Better start digging a bunker just in case Democrats win.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday February 07 2019, @07:56PM (2 children)
First we're leaving immediately. Then, we're staying indefinitely. [washingtonpost.com]
And no, the confusion is not caused by the "fake news," it's caused by Trump's flip-flopping.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:34PM
Trump is a beta male, unable to follow through with his promises because he's the establishment's bitch boy. He can super-serve the elites all he wants, but they will never really like him.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:13PM
Clearly, the current leaders have gone bed, bath and beyond lying to total incoherency. It's the effect of all that crack stupidity. It's worse than crack cocaine for frying brains like cooked eggs. They say listening to grunge music lowers your intelligence. Global Warming must be fake because there are more pirates on the high seas this decade. It's ... where was I going again?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Bot on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:00PM (24 children)
Attacking sionists just helps their cause, because their identity is based on antisemitism.
On the other hand I can't avoid mulling over a simple fact.
If they are actually the chosen people there are two cases.
1 the Christ is the messiah and they are anti Christ
2 the Christ is not the messiah and they are the few still faithful to the God of absolute power and justice
So what, you say? Well, the same god that parted waters and stopped the sun in the sky to defend them, now would give them power through tactics that are historically more suited to... the evil one. Strange.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:08PM (21 children)
Well, if they're actually the chosen people then by definition, Christ is not the messiah, right?
But, much more importantly: Criticizing the actions of the theocratic nation of Israel is not the same as criticizing Judaism itself or being anti-Semitic.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:15PM (18 children)
> Well, if they're actually the chosen people then by definition, Christ is not the messiah, right?
The timeline is this, God chooses the tribe of Abraham (given His hindsight, it is obvious He likes to play in hard mode), prophets write about the messiah, Christ arrives. so the two things are independent.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday February 07 2019, @08:35PM (17 children)
But the messiah is supposed to convert the chosen. That didn't happen. So either they're not the chosen or he's not the messiah.
(Or, god is just a liar and a douchebag. Which, if he existed, is what I would believe.)
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:00PM (10 children)
Ah! Religion is fun! Can we get some arguments about obscure symbolism?
So what actually happened is that Yahweh did not anticipate that Mary was already a Red Dress hybrid and one of Ishtar's as well. As fate would have it, Jesus gained enlightenment and transcended spacetime, becoming one with the Source, and so he is not really part of the conflict between Yahweh's Army of the Apocalypse and the Anunnaki Expeditionary Group (latter often identified with the "whore of Babylon," which seems to be Yahweh's Trumpian nickname for Ishtar).
Though of course people need to listen to what Jesus, Siddhartha, and the other spiritual masters throughout the galaxy have to say. (We can throw gender angst in here as well. An enlightened being is a being who has experienced millions of past lives, some male, some female, and so it would be incorrect to say that Jesus and Siddhartha are only complete men, because they are also complete women.)
See also the thing with the snake and Eve and original sin. It's another example of Yahweh's propaganda against Ishtar (snake == goddess worship) and the pretext for his systematic subjugation of human women to human men for thousands of years.
Still needs a few tweaks yet before I submit my manuscript to Atlus.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:08PM (2 children)
Forgot to back this up with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas [wikipedia.org]
also here http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html [gnosis.org]
It's a bit jumbled, but we have to remember who this remark was likely directed at: Yahweh's Red Dresses, the scribes and pharisees, the very people responsible for the historical subjugation of women.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:43PM (1 child)
If the amount of collective mental effort wasted on these religions was put to useful purpose, we'd probably have colonies on Mars or cold fusion or at least something other than impenetrable gibberish.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @12:04AM
Humans are still chimps, just now learning how to speak and write. Give us a few hundred thousand more years. We might even acquire NI (Natural Intelligence)
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:53PM (6 children)
The funny/sad thing is, that *still* makes more sense than the shit that Bot spews.
Also, if this is going to Atlus, make sure someone in your protagonist's party is capable of casting Megidolaon and someone else has Mediarama or Salvation. Several incarnations of the YHWH fight also include him being able to straight-up insta-kill a party member so be ready for that too.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:18PM (5 children)
In this instance he sent an angel, and 185,000 enemies just didn't get up after going to bed. 2nd Kings 19:30-35 "30And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall yet again take root downward, and bear fruit upward. 31For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this. 32Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the king of Assyria, He shall not come into this city, nor shoot an arrow there, nor come before it with shield, nor cast a bank against it. 33By the way that he came, by the same shall he return, and shall not come into this city, saith the LORD. 34For I will defend this city, to save it, for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake. 35And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses."
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:56PM (3 children)
[citation needed]
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Friday February 08 2019, @04:01PM (2 children)
Assuming, you're not just trolling, I included the citation, before the quotation.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 09 2019, @06:06AM (1 child)
...you. Cannot. Use. The Bible. To prove. Something. The Bible. Says.
EVIDENCE, Freeman. Archaeological or textual evidence. A massacre like that ought to have made waves through the entire region and left impressions on hostile historians.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday February 11 2019, @04:39PM
What makes you think, a ruler would want to record such an event? An event that would mark a blight upon their rule. https://listverse.com/2014/09/14/10-people-who-were-erased-from-history/ [listverse.com]
The only difference between taking a random etching on a cave wall as truth and taking the bible as truth is perspective. Nothing has proven that what's recorded in the Bible is false. Yet, to the contrary, archaeology has only proven that what has been written in the Bible is True. http://truthisfree.org/2018-biblical-archaeological-evidence-archaeology-findings-prove-bible/ [truthisfree.org] https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/110014/christian-archaeologist-battling-for-the-bibles-truth-in-israel/ [breakingisraelnews.com] https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/learn-about-the-scrolls/introduction [deadseascrolls.org.il]
Fun facts about the Dead Sea Scrolls https://www.history.com/news/6-things-you-may-not-know-about-the-dead-sea-scrolls [history.com]
Of course, you have the other side that is definitively against the Bible as Truth. "William Dever, like other academic scholars, uses the term B.C.E. (Before the Common Era) instead of B.C. (Before Christ)." https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/archeology-hebrew-bible/ [pbs.org]
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Friday February 08 2019, @03:59AM
Objection, hearsay!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @09:03PM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday February 09 2019, @12:15AM
>Israelites can always say that they haven't needed the conversion
And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:12PM (1 child)
You don't seem to see any other options?
He is the messiah, They are the chosen, They rejected their own messiah (at least the religious leaders did). But in the end they will recognize and accept him.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:27PM
There is no God but the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Anonymous Coward is his messenger.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:56PM
Are you just making stuff up, or what?
(Score: 2) by Bot on Friday February 08 2019, @03:27PM
> But the messiah is supposed to convert the chosen
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
but
The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”
also:
“Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’
also:
In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday February 07 2019, @11:36PM (1 child)
I don't know about JC, but Paul definitely wasn't the messiah. Or an honest follower of same. And let's not even talk about the way documentation of that period was altered. (See Council of Nicea for one example out of many.)
FWIW, the actual followers of JC were massacred by a Roman army lead by a "Christian" [i.e. Paulist] general. They were called the Nazarene, but don't confuse them with the modern church of the same name.
So any claim about what the authentic doctrine of Jesus of ? (It wasn't Bethlehem, that was one of the changes) is, is at best, dubious.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08 2019, @12:08AM
That is fairly obvious. Paul was the first rebel among them. Both were eventually written off by UNATCO, but only JC went through the final fight with Bob Page.
:-)
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday February 07 2019, @10:50PM (1 child)
Or 3), this Yahweh figure is a fairly standard Bronze-Age Baal archetype and what we have here is a bunch of humans doing what they always do: fighting over stupid stories.
Please tell me you don't actually believe the sun literally stood still. Do you have any idea what would have happened to the planet at every level from the oceans to the crust to the very inner core if that had ever happened? As a reminder, the earth goes around the sun, *not* the other way. Are you a fan of Velikovsky or what?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Bot on Friday February 08 2019, @03:40PM
> Please tell me you don't actually believe the sun literally stood still.
How is the dev of a videogame bound by the rules of the videogame?
Account abandoned.