Ankara has gone ahead with its purchase of the Russian defence system despite threats of US sanctions.
Ankara received its first supply of S-400 missiles in July, despite a warning by the United States about possible sanctions. The acquisition of the highly-advanced air defence system has led to a standoff between Turkey and its NATO allies, especially the US.
[...] The modular S-400 is seen as one of the most advanced missile systems in the world, capable of tracking several targets simultaneously and ready to be fired within minutes.
The US has repeatedly said that the Russian system is incompatible with NATO systems and is a threat to the hi-tech F-35 fighter jets, which Turkey is also planning to buy.
Washington has said Turkey will not be allowed to participate in the F-35 programme because of the Turkey-Russia deal.
The US has strongly urged Turkey to pull back from the deal - the first such move between a NATO member and Russia - warning Ankara that it will face economic sanctions under the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act if it goes ahead with the purchase, reportedly costing more than $2bn.
So far, however, Ankara has refused to give in to US pressure, insisting that choosing which defence equipment to buy is a matter of national sovereignty.
Previously: US Warns Turkey Not To Buy Russian S-400 Missile System
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The United States warned Turkey against moving ahead with plans to buy a sophisticated Russian missile defence system that the Pentagon believes would threaten its advanced F-35 fighter aircraft.
The State Department made the remarks on a day when the head of US European Command spoke to politicians on Capitol Hill and said Turkey should reconsider its plan to buy the S-400 from Russia this year.
"We've clearly warned Turkey that its potential acquisition of the S-400 will result in a reassessment of Turkey's participation in the F-35 programme, and risk other potential future arms transfers to Turkey," said deputy spokesman Robert Palladino on Tuesday.
The US agreed to sell 100 of its latest fifth-generation F-35 fighters to Turkey and has so far delivered two of the aircraft. But Congress last year ordered a delay in future deliveries.
[...] The S-400 can track a large number of potential targets, including stealth targets such as the US F-35 fighter jet. Other advantages included its high mobility, meaning it can be set up, fired and moved within minutes.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday August 27 2019, @04:20PM (11 children)
That will depend on how bad we need the money.
There's a way around the sanctions, just takes some courage.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @04:23PM (5 children)
In the past, we would have to remove Erdogan using the CIA. Now we have to wait it out.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @04:53PM (4 children)
You already tried this in 2016, but failed spectacularly.
(Score: 3, Touché) by pvanhoof on Tuesday August 27 2019, @05:43PM
Which is probably also why Ankara wants Russian equipment to defend its airspace (against its 'own' fighter jets).
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @07:44PM (2 children)
The U.S. isn't behind *every* coup attempt dude
(Score: 4, Insightful) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday August 27 2019, @09:04PM (1 child)
I love to point out the US's nasty work around the world, but in that case I'm pretty sure Erdogan was behind that particular coup.
Credit where credit is due and all that.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by tangomargarine on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:46PM
It's also entirely predictable that Erdogan blamed the U.S. for being behind the coup.
According to Wikipedia, the last 4 or 5 coups before this one were all by the Kemalists (people in the military trying to make sure Turkey doesn't regress to an Ottoman-style Muslim state, but stays secular), but all of a sudden *this time*, when Erdogan is doing the exact same thing, it's the U.S. and a former ally guy of his who got asylum in the U.S. who are behind the coup. How convenient.
It looks like the theory is that they were already planning a coup and E was about to purge a lot of the coup leadership so they had to move up the timetable and bungled it. Then like 2 days later he's got the complete list for the purge. Nobody's that efficient unless it was planned in advance.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 5, Touché) by richtopia on Tuesday August 27 2019, @04:53PM (1 child)
Given the history of the F-35 program, providing Turkey an out from the previously agreed upon purchase may be an incentive for more S-400s.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday August 27 2019, @05:33PM
Yes, it would be upon them to buy the better product
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday August 27 2019, @11:32PM (2 children)
Fighter-bombers are for use on 3rd world and developing countries, mostly on civilian populations. At least that's what's been going on lately. Attacking civilians is the way to win wars. Has been since the Allies changed from attacking German factories to cities.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:05PM
Once nation states happened, it has always been that way. The loss of ships and planes does not remove the will to resist, it is the killing of your baby and Aunt Sally, in sufficient quantities, that does.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 28 2019, @02:55PM
Well the Germans started the whole aerial bombing of cities thing in WW2.
London Blitz?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @05:01PM
The F35s are called индейка by S-400 operators crews, which means turkey.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @05:27PM (2 children)
" insisting that choosing which defence equipment to buy is a matter of national sovereignty."
those incredulous bastards! [shakes fist in the air]
(Score: 2) by driverless on Wednesday August 28 2019, @04:24AM (1 child)
Holy fsck, who comes up with the stupid law names in recent years? If the founding fathers used this naming scheme we'd have the Putting Small Coloured Pieces of Paper on Envelopes to get a Government Agency to Deliver Them Act, the Asking People for Details About Themselves to Create a Public Record Act, the Stamping Out Metal Discs with Monetary Denomimations On Them Act, the ...
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 28 2019, @01:49PM
Generally the law has to be some kind of gay acronym, because politicians use it for marketing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @06:10PM (6 children)
What are the actual reasons for Turkey pivoting towards Russia, or at least away from Nato in recent years.
I'm sick of trying to sift information from MSM drivel. WTF is going on exactly?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @06:51PM (3 children)
Turkey was never a real fit for NATO except in a very expedient Cold War way.
They are even less of a fit for the EU. Seeing that they were never going to be accepted into the EU, they started to stop tamping down their usual Muslim country tendencies and just embraced them. This, Erdogan.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday August 27 2019, @10:10PM (2 children)
That is too simplistic.
The religious right in Turkey has never really had much political power, unlike, say Saudi Arabia or Indonesia.
They still don't really, Erdogan is using them as useful idiots to gain and maintain power as they are a reliable voting bloc.
It is very similar to the way in which the Republican party in the US use the religious right as useful idiots to maintain their power.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @11:09PM (1 child)
I stand by my comments about NATO and the EU.
I think Turkey was getting tired of being almost promised things that never would happen.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday August 28 2019, @12:33AM
You might be right about that. I don't really know for sure, but I don't think Erdogan is terribly keen on joining the EU, as they are not keen on their members suppressing the opposition.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @06:52PM
The F35 is an expensive piece of useless shit and non-US models will have crippled software making it even worse.
Turkey wants a way out their contract to buy them.
The S-400 is a pretty good missile and can shoot down an F35.
Washington (MIC) doesn't want that demonstrated so if Turkey buys the S400 the MIC won't let them have any F35s to practice on.
Turkey buys the much cheaper S-400 and gets a good missile system and doesn't have to pay for useless F35's. Double win for them.
The MIC doesn't like this and wails and gnashes their teeth, but can't do anything much without demonstrating to every other potential F35 buyer just what a piece of shit it is.
The US propaganda department try to spin this in the media as 'punishing' Turkey for buying the missile.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @09:10PM
There are 3 main factors to that:
1. Turkey has the strongest military in NATO after the USA. Actually, it was the exactly Turkey for which the NATO was originally created by USA/GB. Turkey helped to win a Cold War (at least in the context of NATO ideology) and aspires for hegemony.
2. Turkey was declined to join EU recently. Mostly because European consider Turkish aspiration to hegemony a threat. Turks consider it an bad insult because of point 1.
3. Military coup d'état in 2016 managed by CIA for the purpose of replacing the current Brotherhood regime by some different puppet failed mostly because of Erdogan was warned benevolently by Russians. Saving some from losing their lives and properties can make them grateful, sometimes. Turks now understand they need an air defense against NATO/Israeli F35s, first of all threats. Without that, Turkey could become the second Yugoslavia, bombed to submission and accept territorial fragmentation. It is a matter of survival of the state.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @06:14PM
Remember Turkey shooting down a Russian fighter jet that flew over Turkish airspace? That was a few years ago. Predictably tension went up between Turkey and Russia. Being a NATO member, Turkey expected other members to back her up, but no, they effectively told Turkey that she's on her own, particularly European members that were reluctant to confront Russia.
Since then various things came to pass, particularly the Syrian civil war that drew in Russia, America, Turkey, France (who bailed out early, as usual), Iran, and so on, all at odds with each other.
So now Turkey is buying arms from Russia.
(Score: 4, Informative) by legont on Tuesday August 27 2019, @08:33PM (5 children)
One S-400 export limited system can track 100 targets and fire 384 missiles. Not sure what a domestic version capabilities are. The US aircraft carrier has 60 aircraft, if I am not mistaken. So, turkeys feels like a fair designation.
Jokes aside, I like these developments. I like an idea that offencive wearpons have no bite any more. Ideally, every peasant should have a technology to shoot down any incoming agressor.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by loonycyborg on Tuesday August 27 2019, @10:45PM (4 children)
It still will have trouble stopping a cruise missile barrage.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday August 27 2019, @11:40PM (2 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 3, Informative) by loonycyborg on Wednesday August 28 2019, @06:31AM (1 child)
A single S-400 is used to cover a large region so a potential enemy can dispatch a taskforce of missile capable ships and attack S-400 itself. Cruise missiles can fly low so any AA will have very small window to fire at them. Launches can be synchronized so that all missiles will arrive at almost the same time. That sort of barrage I had in mind.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday August 29 2019, @01:40AM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday August 28 2019, @12:26AM
Too lasy to check all of them, but say F-35 can carry 4 criuise missiles (with stealth lost). Even if all 60 are F-35s, that makes 5*60=300 (one per missile and one for F-35 itself) S-400 missiles required to stop the airplanes leaving 60+ for the carrier; just one system will do it.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 27 2019, @08:45PM
holy molly. next your arms-dealer is gonna tell you what you're allowed to shot at ...
looking at the bgi picture, europe is really getting singed at the borders.
it's as if someone used a burning piece of coal as marker, stuck the needle into the center of europe and drew a scorching circle with a compass; seems it got uneven when reaching the ukraine, so pivoted around to restart in good ol' england ...