Craig Murray of Information Clearing House writes about his observation at Westminster Magistrates Court:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/52433.htm
Before I get on to the blatant lack of fair process, the first thing I must note was Julian's condition. I was badly shocked by just how much weight my friend has lost, by the speed his hair has receded and by the appearance of premature and vastly accelerated ageing. He has a pronounced limp I have never seen before. Since his arrest he has lost over 15 kg in weight.
But his physical appearance was not as shocking as his mental deterioration. When asked to give his name and date of birth, he struggled visibly over several seconds to recall both. I will come to the important content of his statement at the end of proceedings in due course, but his difficulty in making it was very evident; it was a real struggle for him to articulate the words and focus his train of thought.
Until yesterday I had always been quietly sceptical of those who claimed that Julian's treatment amounted to torture – even of Nils Melzer, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture – and sceptical of those who suggested he may be subject to debilitating drug treatments. But having attended the trials in Uzbekistan of several victims of extreme torture, and having worked with survivors from Sierra Leone and elsewhere, I can tell you that yesterday changed my mind entirely and Julian exhibited exactly the symptoms of a torture victim brought blinking into the light, particularly in terms of disorientation, confusion, and the real struggle to assert free will through the fog of learned helplessness.
I had been even more sceptical of those who claimed, as a senior member of his legal team did to me on Sunday night, that they were worried that Julian might not live to the end of the extradition process. I now find myself not only believing it, but haunted by the thought. Everybody in that court yesterday saw that one of the greatest journalists and most important dissidents of our times is being tortured to death by the state, before our eyes. To see my friend, the most articulate man, the fastest thinker, I have ever known, reduced to that shambling and incoherent wreck, was unbearable. Yet the agents of the state, particularly the callous magistrate Vanessa Baraitser, were not just prepared but eager to be a part of this bloodsport. She actually told him that if he were incapable of following proceedings, then his lawyers could explain what had happened to him later. The question of why a man who, by the very charges against him, was acknowledged to be highly intelligent and competent, had been reduced by the state to somebody incapable of following court proceedings, gave her not a millisecond of concern.
Now tell me some fine arguments justifying the legality and justness of such person destruction methodics, I wish to hear them.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday October 28 2019, @09:32PM (28 children)
Here's a brutal argument: fuck legality and justness, might makes right.
This is exactly what is happening and, believe me, it can be worse using the same argument.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday October 28 2019, @09:40PM (17 children)
Might makes right seems to be what is going on here, but the UK Supreme Court will presumably rule on this case at some point, and they seem to be less inclined to take their marching orders from the US government, so maybe there is some hope for justice.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @09:43PM (13 children)
I'll believe that when I see it, and not a moment sooner.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday October 28 2019, @10:08PM (12 children)
I am basing my view of the UK Supreme Court on the fact they followed the law, instead of doing what Boris wanted when they ruled on the prorogation of Parliament recently.
I could be wrong of course.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 28 2019, @11:41PM (7 children)
Like every other court in the world, they get some things right, and other things wrong. The US has already ramrodded a couple of extraditions through the UK government, no reason right now to think they won't get their way again.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:20AM (6 children)
You might be right.
It seems odd to me. If there is one country in the world that ought to feel safe telling the US to bugger off, I would have thought it would be the UK.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:31AM (5 children)
Snowden is in Russia, not UK. Just sayin'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Tuesday October 29 2019, @11:35AM (4 children)
TFA is about Assange, not Snowden. Just sayin'.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday October 29 2019, @11:57AM (3 children)
Yeah, but the fact that Snowden is in Russia not UK does say something about the idea of UK being the country "that ought to feel safe telling the US to bugger off", dontcha think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by toddestan on Wednesday October 30 2019, @02:47AM (2 children)
Russia can certainly tell the US to bugger off, and they very well might get away with it too. But I wouldn't call it a sure thing. The US has imposed sanctions against Russia. The US claims it's not about Snowden, it's up to you if you want to believe that or not.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday October 30 2019, @03:00AM
"Safe" doesn't necessarily means "for free", just that "I can afford the price without running into perils".
I'm not sure UK can put now enough on the table in terms of "advantages to US" or "resilience without US" to safely piss US off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 30 2019, @08:20AM
Well maybe 99.9% Snowden and 0.1% Crimea?
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @11:47PM (3 children)
Boris is trying to get done what the people voted for and the elites hate, so of course the UKSC overruled him. That ruling will be perfectly consistent with doing what other elites want with respect to Assange.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @12:10AM (1 child)
Elites financed the Leave campaign and people voted based in a £350M promise. Elites hate what they pushed... makes no sense, unless the game is seeing go get more feet blown. Boris is not getting that money, it was a lie.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-350m-brexit-nhs-misled-uk-statistics-authority-the-telegraph-sir-david-norgrove-amber-a7951711.html [independent.co.uk]
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:24AM
£350 per week no less! When Boris lies, he goes all the way baby.
It works too, as the useful idiot above proves.
(Score: 3, Informative) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Tuesday October 29 2019, @11:57AM
That's a pack of lies.
The people DID NOT VOTE FOR NO DEAL [theguardian.com]. In 2016 all the people now pushing us toward the cliff-edge were holding their hands up in feigned horror saying "heavens no, nobody would be so foolish as to suggest we might leave without a deal." Then they spent 3 years gaslighting and moving the goalposts to the point where they present it as SUPPORT CATASTROPHIC NO DEAL OR YOU'RE AN UNDEMOCRATIC MONSTER.
The "Elites" driving this are soulless Eton-educated ERG autocrats like Johnson, Rees-Mogg and their lobbyists who are waiting in the wings to strip mine our economy and country.
AC you are some combination of shill, liar and idiot. Go join Johnson in his ditch.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday October 28 2019, @09:53PM
Yeah, well, seems like the mighty is pleased with the "at some point" as long as the high pressure is maintained - works fine for its purpose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday October 28 2019, @11:06PM
Define justice? - At this point no amount of reparations will amount to personal justice for JA, maybe for his cause, maybe before he dies he can see just progress toward his goals, but his life - no amount of money and/or freedom will make up for what has already transpired.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday October 28 2019, @11:09PM
In the meantime, Ozland is sliding deeper into mass-surveillance [wikipedia.org] and, for now, only the newspapers protested publicly [bbc.com].
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @11:19PM
Something like this [righttoknow.org.au] (exchange following a naive FOI request):
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Nuke on Tuesday October 29 2019, @12:03AM (8 children)
The legality is that he is in a British prison for jumping bail granted by a British court. There cannot be any argument about that, and jumping bail is a serious offence by anyone, and there is no reason for Assange to be given special treatment.
As for being ill, that is not a reason to release someone from prison. People do get ill in prison as they do outside, and they get treatment by prison doctors - any evidence that Assange is not getting medical attention? I very much doubt that the UK government would want the embarassment of Assange dying in prison, so they will do thier best to keep him alive.
It is not a magistrate's job to be a mental health nurse to anyone. She was correct to follow procedure and leave it to his lawyers to act for him if he was incapable of doing so himself - that is what your own lawers are for. WTF do people expect the magistrate to do? For those who don't know, a magistrate is quite a junior figure in the UK judicial system, cetainly not with powers of releasing someone from a prison sentence whatever they feel about it personally.
Assange is losing hair; so am I. Plenty of men lose hair because of stressful jobs. Assange opted for a particularly stressful line of work with Wikileaks, and while he might not have forseen this particular outcome, anyone could have seen that it was going to be a bumpy ride one way or another. If he was not prepared to suck it up, and have the mental and physical stamina for it, then he should have run a website about crossword puzzles instead.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @01:54AM (1 child)
"Here, have an aspirin and don't fucking die and embarrass us, you hear? I'll let your lawyer to explain to you what to do with that aspirin."
Just from curiosity, what's your explanation for Assange's torture-like symptoms, in spite of the good (prison) doctors offered by the benevolent (but slightly offended) UK govt?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Sally_G on Tuesday October 29 2019, @06:20AM
Living in near isolation, and surrounded by people who are hostile to him, for years. Now that he has lost his fight to avoid extradition hearings, he has basically given up, and lost hope. If asked, Julian would probably say that he is a walking dead man.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Sally_G on Tuesday October 29 2019, @04:01AM
No, the magistrate can't turn Assange loose. But, she could have postponed the hearing, and instructed all concerned to get Assange whatever medical and/or mental help he needed. Kowtowing to those fine gentlemen "in the back" is most certainly not her job.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by driverless on Tuesday October 29 2019, @04:29AM (1 child)
Not just that, look at the writeup:
And it gets even crazier after that. I think I'll wait to hear reports from some sort of vaguely credible source before I decide whether I need to get outraged or not.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @05:08AM
*Sigh of relief* - your outrage (or the lack thereof) has so much impact on this world that I thanks $DEITIES you refrained from a hasty decision.
(point: yes, it's OK to wait for more information if you need to make your mind, but the reality is that your reaction is already inconsequential for the world, even more so in the future.
The way you put it implies outrage is the only reaction anyone can naturally have, and that everybody who chose to believe the available news are just prematurely outraged. "Oh, silly them! (then, pointing to the strawman): See how much better I am?"
Your badly disguised air of superiority pisses me off).
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @07:23AM
Yes, and Jeffrey Epstein killed himself...
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @07:43AM
Of course Mr Assange isnt getting special treatment, it's quite normal for bail jumpers to end up in solitary confinement at Belmarsh...
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday October 29 2019, @12:56PM
Ironically, he would have had a better chance before the US courts before Trump stacked the Supreme Court. Now? Screwed.
Then again, he would also have been better off fighting the rape charges - except that surreptitiously removing your condom during sex (aka "stealthing") IS sexual assault.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: -1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @09:33PM (8 children)
Less likely that others will commit treason when they see what happens. #CrookedHillaryKillsAnother
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @10:13PM
Fuckwit von stupidstick!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Tuesday October 29 2019, @05:47AM (5 children)
Treason you say? Did he commit the crime in the USA? No. Is blowing the whistle on a corrupt government an offence? No. Has Assange signed the Official Secrets Act, or the US or Australian equivalents thereof? No. So under what jurisdicition is he guilty of committing a crime? If he had disclosed Chinese or Russian secrets would he still be guilty of treason in the USA? No, he most certainly would not. This is not to dissuade others - it is purely to show that the US can get anybody on any pretense anywhere in the world. This is about stifling journalists from doing their job both in the USA and abroad. Land of the Free and Freedom of Speech - don't make me laugh.
We discuss how China enforces it's will illegally on its own people and on others - and we decry such actions. But now we are expected to view the way Assange is being treated as fair and just. No matter what he did his only proven crime is that he skipped bail and I had hoped that the UK would have treated him with the same rules as all other bail jumpers are treated.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday October 29 2019, @06:04AM (1 child)
If the idea passes through, can you imagine what the American sheeple will think?
"If a fucking furiner got convicted of treason:
1. I'd better not do anything remotely the same, they'll break no sweat in grabing me
2. we are the one and only measure for the whole humanity. Betraying our interest is treason, not matter what nationality you are. Amurica, fuck yeah...!!"
Now, do be honest: given the possible gains, do you think it is absurd and unthinkable for the USian political class to even try? And twist whatever rules necessary just to make it happen?
They only need one "Emmanuel Goldstein", hated enough by the citizens to allow a gross injustice to happen, and they will establish a legal precedent!!
Just watch out how the "ad hominem"s will flow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday October 29 2019, @08:19AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @08:36AM (1 child)
US courts have a long history of regarding their jurisdiction as infinite.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday October 29 2019, @09:59AM
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Sally_G on Tuesday October 29 2019, @09:11AM
Julian Assange could commit treason against Australia, if he chose to do so. Not being a citizen of the US, he would have to first immigrate to the US, then become a naturalized citizen before he could commit treason against the USA.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday October 29 2019, @12:59PM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 4, Touché) by RamiK on Monday October 28 2019, @09:55PM (20 children)
Well, as far as kangaroo courts in tyrannical regimes goes, he still got a full set of teeth, finger nails, appendages, eye balls, nose, genitalia, family members with the aforementioned body parts that are still in one piece that have (yet) to be raped, a lawyer and a public
trialexecution.That's like, about the same as China and only half way to Boko Haram. So you see, still leaders of the free world.
compiling...
(Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @10:39PM (1 child)
half way to Boko Haram
Yeah, he is a whiter shade of pale...
(Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Tuesday October 29 2019, @12:45AM
I had that exact reply typed in.
I'm guessing more than just myself, too.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Gaaark on Monday October 28 2019, @10:55PM (6 children)
And JFK had the protection of the Secret Service against a lone shooter....no...wait, a bunch of shooters, but there was no conspiracy and there were multiple shooters at that one spot but they weren't acting together and Oswald was the killer even though he had a shite rifle and couldn't hit a brick wall let alone a moving target and there was no government cover up....wait, there was, but there was only one shooter...wait, there WERE multiple shooters but Oswald was NOT a patsy, but wait, the police allowed him to be killed before there could be ANY kind of investigation but there is no cover up and no conspiracy and you can trust the US government.......
.....and the US government had NOTHING to do with Assange being tortured and probably poisoned... You can trust the US government...
/...oh wait, you can't:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/05/cia-long-history-kill-leaders-around-the-world-north-korea [theguardian.com]
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/17/opinions/us-assassination-attempt-maier/index.html [cnn.com]
The US wants I'm gone: maybe a little quid pro quo got him gone..... Just..maybe. Nah; CERTAINLY!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 3, Informative) by RamiK on Tuesday October 29 2019, @12:12AM (5 children)
Dude, I get sarcasm doesn't pass well through the written word, but I've just suggested the US conduct in this kangaroo-trial to be more befitting that of China and that it's just short of Boko Haram by virtue of not yet chopping and/or raping Assange and his relatives. If most read it as commendations rather than condemnation, it's probably too late.
compiling...
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday October 29 2019, @12:48AM (4 children)
Sarcasm also doesn't pass well to the autistic.
I apologize.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Tuesday October 29 2019, @11:16AM
Nah it was meant to be slightly ambiguous so by the time it's re-read you'd get the sarcasm in an Oh! moment so my poor delivery was likely to blame. Probably should have compromised on style and tone and went with "So you see, still leaders of the free world! WOOHOO!" or the likes.
Well, spilled milk...
compiling...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 29 2019, @11:34AM (2 children)
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday October 29 2019, @04:44PM (1 child)
Spend some time with my son: and try to get some sleep. And sanity. And work done.
....and internetting done.
Oh....and ...........kill me.
:?
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 30 2019, @01:37AM
Inability to detect sarcasm is a universal problem on the internet. Autism is not.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:50PM (10 children)
leave it to a zionist to go full moral relativist
Ramik believes everyone is just assholes and everything is dark grey, morality has no point etc.
Zionists believe as long as someone has ever done it in the past history of the universe, they can do it too and it won't be that big of a deal.
Or if that person isn't a zionist, it's open season.
It is a way of thinking based on moving the goalposts(and borders), so it is basically the worst place to look for a moral compass.
The only way this has happened is through corruption of the United States and the UK by israelis who have for decades wanted to undermine the UN and europe to the point they cannot stand in the way of their termination of the palestinians. China is taking a free ride at the same time, an actual genocide of uigurs and the 'never again' israelis are twiddling their thumbs, plotting more proxy wars.
Any defense of assange would establish a precedent for the hundreds of actual palestinian children in israeli prison right now.
Im a real american, I have watched this happen my entire adult life, this has been their plan all along. Israelis are destroying western civilization and their news media in our countries is blaming it on the refugees created by their expansion plans.
Get it through your head. Israel is not an ally to anyone and we all have the same problem.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 29 2019, @03:43PM (2 children)
I've kinda wondered where you buy your compasses.
(Score: 2, Funny) by DECbot on Tuesday October 29 2019, @08:53PM (1 child)
Let me introduce you to WonderCompass! Do you ever get tired of your compass conforming to stereotypical norm of always pointing north? Tired of keeping lodestone or strong magnetic fields handy to keep your compass non-conforming? Then WonderCompass is the compass for you! Our patented algorithm driven needle is guaranteed to never conform. WonderCompass operates in two modes, the first mode it can be set to your heart's content. Whether it is the nearest cafe selling avocado toast or the girl your crushing on, WonderCompass will show the way. The second mode, WonderCompass can be set to never point the same direction twice. When you need a new direction in your life, WonderCompass can point the way. WonderCompass is available in your app store for your Apple or Android device! Let your compass set you free--to wherever you want to be!
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 29 2019, @09:09PM
We've done it! We have reached apotheosis! We are wherever we want to be!
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Tuesday October 29 2019, @09:30PM
I don't know if I should be mortified or proud. One thing is clear, I can't stop laughing my ass off... :D
compiling...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 30 2019, @01:48AM (5 children)
Now, Zionists are allegedly exercising the usual levels of human hypocrisy and that's somehow destroying western civilization? Not buying it either.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Wednesday October 30 2019, @05:34PM (4 children)
Clearly with Assange there are a lot of bad actors and institutions making it this way.
But in the United States right now anyone who is not capable of realizing the threat of the zionist lobby and centralization of tech admin and production in israel is really not worth my time to artue with. There are dozens and dozens of data points, trump is one of them.
And it isnt just me, I am not the only one who sees it, I actually am only talking about it because a lot of other people arent doing their job.
You do know that nbc and the new york times actually conspired to help Harvey Weinstein keep raping people right?
is he just a 'normal case of white privilege' to you? Do you see anything degenerative to the United States about this, or the epstein event?
Now there are 3 points, Weinstein, Epstein, Assange, does it look to you like things are going well for the rule of law, human rights and health of institutions? Do you see any patterns there if you think very hard?
And do you have anything else you want to project onto me to suit your worldview, that youd like to throw at me from the safety of anonymity?
And are you too a zionist? Please, share your analysis of the situation. I want to learn how wrong I am, how great things are going, how happy I should be for a foreign country to be freely bribing my government and threatening to call all of bernie sanders supporters nazis.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday October 31 2019, @12:51AM (2 children)
I'm pretty capable. You're just not providing the evidence. Trump, for example, certainly is not such a data point.
His behavior is irrelevant to your expressed concern. Nor is such hypocritical alpha male behavior unique to a Zionist supported by parts of US media.
Not as evidence. And no, I don't see your alleged "patterns".
Aside from you exhibiting some of the same behavior you claim that your conspirators display - like blaming their enemies for their own actions?
Things actually have settled down. There's no invasions of Israel anymore so on that narrow front things got better. Things are getting better worldwide. And Israel/Zionists are only of many players who manipulate US politics. It's not great, but it's not a conspiracy of a single group either.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Thursday October 31 2019, @04:41PM (1 child)
The evidence at this point is self-evident, it is in the open, it is on SN headlines today with more NSO group bullshit.
More hasbara bullshit in ITT thread, weinstein is just a standard alpha male, everybody infiltrates the US just like israel, everything is getting better, stole another 140 houses in east jerusalem just yesterday.
gtfo if you arent getting paid to be ignorant you should consider it as a full time job, youre good at it
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday November 01 2019, @12:10AM
I consider appeals to "self-evident" as signaling that you have extraordinarily weak support for your position. If it's "self-evident", then it's probably pretty damn obvious for any attempts at rational argument. That hasn't been happening.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 31 2019, @11:19PM
Man! There must be some kind of Hitler *Horcrux* nearby that's fucking up your head! Or is it, the *Ring*? To rule over all the others? You are definitely bonkers! Or a poorly disguised anti-Semite!
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday October 28 2019, @09:55PM (6 children)
So, what happens to wikileaks? Does it die with him? Or does it wake up to double its efforts?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @10:04PM (2 children)
The moment he dies, all the world's secrets held by WikiLeaks get leaked. That's right, they are even going to email a full listing of the porn on your hard drive to your mother (and wait until you see what she has on hers).
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Gaaark on Monday October 28 2019, @11:03PM (1 child)
What's on Hillary's?
"You wanted a 'pizza', didn't you Mrs Clinton?"
"Oh, yes....a 'pizza'. With black 'olives' but no 'kvelte fish'....a large 'pepperoni' with huge nipples...errr...I mean huge 'pineapples'....yes...."
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @11:38PM
Are you sure it's not Mr. Clinton? Either one fits that description.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday October 28 2019, @10:57PM
I remember a time when 4chan was the birthplace and a (safe)home for the Anonymous Collective [wikipedia.org].
Looking at it now, no longer techies, not even script kiddies running wild with LOIC. Only stupid meme generator pricks running wild with a vacuous sense of vanity.
Oh, well... I wouldn't be surprised if the same happens with Wikileaks (I only be a bit sadder, but I'll survive) ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:16AM (1 child)
IIRC, Wikileaks has "insurance files." My guess is that if he dies, then some watchdog somewhere won't get kicked and the key to those files will be sent to a bunch of places or those with the necessary number of parts under a Shamir's Secret Sharing or Blakley's Secret Sharing scheme will reconstitute the keys.
In addition, his crappy internet access at the embassy has also meant that he is not involved with the day-to-day running of the site anymore. My guess is that even if the above doesn't happen, there will be some sort of embarrassing release for the guilty parties and another round of interest in the site.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:29AM
I doubt it is anything so automated. Probably a few volunteers somewhere holding the keys and instructed to release them if shit hits the fan. This is an organization that let Daniel Domscheit-Berg destroy a bunch of leaks on his way out, and all of the leaked diplomatic cables were released because of passphrase mismanagement. Funding and support for WikiLeaks has dwindled. Where are all the personnel? On a shrinking watchlist.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @10:28PM (4 children)
All that time he was in that embassy he was the same smug and arrogant ass that he had always been, but it seems when he finally wore out his welcome, then suddenly he is afflicted with a mental condition. This sudden health affliction does seem to strike many just as they go to trial, so yes, indeed, you can call me a skeptic. But perhaps it is real and his head broke when he realized that it isn't quite as pleasant being on the other side of things. It's one thing to encourage people to go to jail for you and your ego, but quite another thing when it is you. He would garner much more sympathy if one got the feeling that he believed in his cause rather than just using it as a vehicle to feed his ego and desire for celebrity.
Yes, yes, fight the power and all that. (Just as long as they're not Russian, that is)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @10:44PM
https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/04/politics/kfile-trump-wikileaks/index.html [cnn.com]
The bigger concern is the people who have called for his death, directly or indirectly.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:24AM
One can sacrifice a lot when he knows he can still make a difference and bring whatever value they think they can (speaking of value: don't tell me that Assange's position wasn't a rather rare/unusual when compared with all this world population).
Mental conditions will happen with most intelligent people** when they realize they lost any control over what matters to them in life.
---
** Absolute consumers don't need to apply, but it will happen to them too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Coward, Anonymous on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:44AM
How can we tell if Assange is just acting? His father was an actor. The 1000-yard stare and slow, slurred speech would not be hard to fake.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 30 2019, @01:53AM
Sounds like you'd be in a similar situation, should someone toss you in the slammer. So what?
Again, so what? What is the crime here?
But not from you, right?
The real question is does this make the world a better place? I'd have to say that yes, Wikileaks and Assange's activities did, no matter the motive for them.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @10:44PM (10 children)
He wouldn't be in gaol right now.
In fact, had he not done so, even *if* (and that's a big 'if') he'd been convicted in a US court [cornell.edu], he'd likely have completed his sentence and been released from prison years ago.
Whether you support the work of Wikileaks (I do) or not, Assange wasted all those years in the Ecuadorian embassy.
Had he not violated *British* law (not US law. He's in gaol right now for violating *UK law* -- jumping bail), he could have been fucking Swedish girls bareback (note I did not say 'rape') all day, every day for the last five years or so.
Just sayin'.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 28 2019, @11:07PM
He was acting in self defense.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. Wikileaks never did help prevent the election of fascists around the world. May as well turn off the lights
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Gaaark on Monday October 28 2019, @11:16PM (3 children)
Osama bin Laden used to be friends of the US government, but when it was convenient he became enemy #1 and he was 'eliminated'.
Can you not see the same or worse happening to Assange? Or Snowden?
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @07:04PM (2 children)
Nope. I can't. Assange is *accused* of violating the CFAA [wikipedia.org], a civilian US law. The additional charge of violating the Espionage Act of 1917 [wikipedia.org] is absurd on its face, especially since no journalist has *ever* been prosecuted under that law. Every single conviction has been of US government officials and foreign intelligence agents.
bin Laden was classified as an "enemy combatant." Whatever you may think of such a classification (I find it to be reprehensible), different rules apply.
Assange, whether it was ten years ago or next year, will be tried in a US Article III court [wikipedia.org] and will be subject to incarceration and fines based on the CFAA [wikipedia.org] which specifies fairly stiff (for individuals, at least) fines and jail terms of *up to* 5-10 years (5 years max for a first infraction is baked into the law).
What's more, the idea that the US would effect a drone (or cruise missile) attack on on a UK prison [wikipedia.org] is laughable at best. Even more, once Assange completes his 50 week sentence for bail-jumping, he will most likely be transported to the US by US Marshals [wikipedia.org] and held pending trial at a Federal detention facility [wikipedia.org].
Assange will have his day in court, just as he would have before he sought refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy.
If you want to engage in ridiculous conspiracy theories, go right ahead. But that doesn't make you right. I guess we'll just have to see, won't we?
I suspect that once Assange is serving his 2-5 year sentence, you'll make some other ridiculous statement. You go, girlfriend!
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday October 29 2019, @08:29PM (1 child)
So, you can't see the American government poisoning him?
You can't fathom the idea that they may eliminate him somehow?
You can't have any thought that they may try to kill him?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/05/cia-long-history-kill-leaders-around-the-world-north-korea [theguardian.com]
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/US/Assassinations_since_1945 [wikispooks.com]
You seem to have a very tiny mind. You should read more and open your mind to other ideas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden [wikipedia.org]
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @08:48PM
Like I said, you go girlfriend!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 28 2019, @11:52PM (3 children)
I can understand him jumping bail. I can't understand him holing up within the UK. Were I in his position, I'd have been hauling ass to the continent, and to points beyond the EU. Of course, I can't discount the possibility that he had similar plans that fell apart, and he landed in the embassy instead.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @12:07AM (1 child)
At least it wasn't the Saudi Embassy.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Tuesday October 29 2019, @12:21AM
That would have been headless of him ....
(Score: 3, Informative) by johaquila on Tuesday October 29 2019, @08:58AM
The Ecuadorian embassy was under heavy police surveillance 24 hours/day. Even if he had managed to leave it without being arrested at once, due to the electronic surveillance inside (and the complicity of the Spanish company hired to guard the embassy), this would have been found out almost immediately and he would have had next to no chance to leave the UK.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Tuesday October 29 2019, @12:24AM
When Assange jumped bail:
- Chelsea (then Bradley) Manning had been in prison, almost entirely incommunicado, without charges under conditions Amnesty International considered torture. For the same crime the US was after Assange for.
- A substantial percentage of the US national security apparatus, and even then-senator Joe Lieberman, had worked tirelessly to try to cut off Wikileaks' funding, solely because they didn't like what Assange was publishing.
- Among the information that Wikileaks was publishing was about the US's international network of military prisons where they were having people tortured and killed. Assange, being neither a US citizen nor a prisoner of war, had few legal protections against that treatment beyond Australia sending a letter complaining about their citizens' treatment (but other than that probably doing nothing else).
- Several US officials had called for Assange to be imprisoned or even executed without trial.
- The Swedes had refused any deals that would involve promises that Assange would not be immediately sent to the Americans for $DEITY-knows-what treatment.
It would be reasonable for Assange to have concluded, as a UN human rights panel would years later, that to go to Sweden to stand trial would be basically walking willingly into being tortured to death over a period of years. And however unpleasant jumping bail might be, it was preferable to that.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @12:29AM (21 children)
Women don't give a fuck about men, and we are ruled by them.
I pray for the destruction of the woman's society: the west.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday October 29 2019, @12:39AM (17 children)
You're delusional. Die mad, incel. If this were truly a womens' world, most of this shit wouldn't be happening.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday October 29 2019, @01:08AM (4 children)
If you exclude the deplorables like Hillary Clinton.
My wife would have peace on Earth as her main goal: Hillary.....hmmmm...I don' thin' so.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @03:26AM (3 children)
You hang out on too many US edge lord sites. She's a pretty standard dynasty type politician, but where's your venom for the even worse pig fuckers? Seems conservatives are just seriously triggered by women.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @09:32AM
Actually, conservatives like some women. Margaret Thatcher was pretty popular with conservatives. Why don't you provide a list of women in politics, and we can run through it to see who is popular with conservatives, who popular with neocons, who popular with liberals, who popular with progressives, and who appeals to centrists. We could have some fun with that, couldn't we? The most popular woman in recent memory among conservatives was Sarah Palin. But, it's your list - go for it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Gaaark on Tuesday October 29 2019, @04:49PM (1 child)
Wow...calling me conservative is like calling Hillary a woman... I am not conservative.
I used to be, but big business has too much power now: capitalism is now profitism, ....or at best, givemeanotherdolloarism.
The reason there is such a backlash against capitalism is that the rich have used their money to exploit the system to their profit. There is now a rise of the people against them. If the rich were TRULY intelligent, they would realize this and give back.
Seems there isn't a lot of intelligence in the rich.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday October 29 2019, @07:13PM
That anon is broken. Don't give it too much thot.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:21AM
Yes, corruption can't happen because women are perfect.
Makes perfect sense.
(Score: 5, Touché) by Coward, Anonymous on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:26AM (3 children)
What is it with people who think it's appropriate to speculate publicly about the sexual habits of others? So weird.
(Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @03:29AM
Almost self-aware, so close.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @08:11AM (1 child)
There's a line somewhere in one of my paper books that I can't be arsed to look up, but which goes along the lines of 'since the demise of the powers of the churches, denouncing your enemies as heretics with the aim of silencing them has fallen out of favour, these days, we publicly question their morals or sexuality...' (either a Victorian or Edwardian book, if memory serves me right..)
In other words, yet another human analogue of chimps screeching and throwing shit at each other..ain't evolution fun...
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 30 2019, @02:34AM
Oh me oh my, have I hurt someone's feelings? But I thought feelings were weak silly things only weak silly people like us women have! Not big strong rational mega-brained alpha males! Hmmm...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @04:06AM
you really do hate men - especially those you can't manipulate
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday October 29 2019, @06:15AM (5 children)
Because all men are evil and all women are good?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 30 2019, @02:24AM (4 children)
Oh for fuck's sake. I shouldn't even be dignifying this trolling bait with a response, but...women attempt conflict resolution and cooperation more than men do. At the very least, this would lead to longer times between wars, no? Even if there would be a hell of a lot of heads of state "not talking to one another."
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday October 30 2019, @12:41PM (3 children)
It's not trolling, Azuma. You clearly have not been involved with PTAs or school boards. Women are not the benign, cooperative creatures you make them out to be. They are as human and as prone to good or evil as men are.
The insidious gender stereotype you have (probably reflexively) repeated here corrodes our collective social cohesion. If you took a step back, you'd see that saying what you said rings the same as a person saying, "Blacks are criminals" or "Jews are duplicitous." It just doesn't seem the same to you at first blush because you're in concert with the current tide of gender bigotry.
Please don't be a toxic feminist.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 30 2019, @11:32PM (2 children)
From my own experience, women do cooperate more. Look, I was one of the unpopular ones, I KNOW how toxic women are. I am a woman and I date them, and holy fuck is there ever a lot of drama in lesbian dating. And yes, I've seen the PTA/school board thing. You know what? I have two men as bosses and prefer working with them to any of the women I have as co-workers...but that's been the exception, not the rule, in spite of all the above.
And no, there isn't a proximate cause here like there is for the seemingly high rates of black criminality (that's a proxy for poverty, nothing to do with race) or supposed Jewish duplicity (THAT is a centuries-old stereotype, blood libel on stilts). You can see the differences all the way back in our nonhuman ancestors and relatives; look at the differences between chimps and bonobos. I'm not idealizing the bonobos of course; the fact that they have so much conflict resolution implies that there's a lot of conflict to begin with, but between P. troglodytes and P. paniscus I know which strategy I'd prefer.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, Mr. Manly Man. Don't drag me down to your level.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday November 02 2019, @02:28PM (1 child)
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, Ms. Womanly Woman? If you can dismiss men's objections tritely, then so can they yours. If women want men to take gender equity seriously, then women need to take gender equity seriously. Stating categorically than one gender is better than the other gender will get you hoisted on your own petard, as it should.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday November 03 2019, @02:43AM
Where did I say women were overall better? There are differences in dynamics commonly seen in the two genders which would lead to a lot less war (though possibly more trade isolation, which has its own set of issues...), that's all. You're reading things into this that aren't there, and that kind of kneejerk global defensiveness speaks to deep insecurity.
And don't you dare, don't you motherfucking DARE, try to pull that "women need to treat men as equals" horseshit.
If we "treated you as equals," we'd have been able to control your ability to manage your own money and credit cards until perhaps 50 years ago. We'd have prevented you from voting until less than a century ago. We'd have been able to keep you out of higher education in any meaningful capacity until maybe 150 years ago, practically 100, more practically 50 or 60.
If we treated you as equals, we'd have been allowed to rape you whenever we want in the context of marriage until 1993 in this country.
Back off, catch your breath, and try again when you're feeling more rational and less emotional (ironic, no?).
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @12:54AM (2 children)
Laaazy. Be the change you want to see in the world.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by c0lo on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:28AM (1 child)
Hmmm... so a choice between a women serial killer or sex reassignment?
I wonder which one would the OS(hitty)P will take?
(large grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 29 2019, @02:33AM
Sex reassignment... into a gamma male.