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posted by janrinok on Monday January 27 2020, @05:46PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]

Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:

Political polarization among Americans has grown rapidly in the last 40 years—more than in Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia or Germany—a phenomenon possibly due to increased racial division, the rise of partisan cable news and changes in the composition of the Democratic and Republican parties.

That's according to new research co-authored by Jesse Shapiro, a professor of political economy at Brown University. The study, conducted alongside Stanford University economists Levi Boxell and Matthew Gentzkow, was released on Monday, Jan. 20, as a National Bureau of Economic Research working paper.

In the study, Shapiro and colleagues present the first ever multi-nation evidence on long-term trends in "affective polarization"—a phenomenon in which citizens feel more negatively toward other political parties than toward their own. They found that in the U.S., affective polarization has increased more dramatically since the late 1970s than in the eight other countries they examined—the U.K., Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, Switzerland, Norway and Sweden.

"A lot of analysis on polarization is focused on the U.S., so we thought it could be interesting to put the U.S. in context and see whether it is part of a global trend or whether it looks more exceptional," Shapiro said. "We found that the trend in the U.S. is indeed exceptional."

Using data from four decades of public opinion surveys conducted in the nine countries, the researchers used a so-called "feeling thermometer" to rate attitudes on a scale from 0 to 100, where 0 reflected no negative feelings toward other parties. They found that in 1978, the average American rated the members of their own political party 27 points higher than members of the other major party. By 2016, Americans were rating their own party 45.9 points higher than the other party, on average. In other words, negative feelings toward members of the other party compared to one's own party increased by an average of 4.8 points per decade.

The researchers found that polarization had also risen in Canada, New Zealand and Switzerland in the last 40 years, but to a lesser extent. In the U.K., Australia, Germany, Norway and Sweden, polarization decreased.

More information: Levi Boxell et al, Cross-Country Trends in Affective Polarization, (2020). DOI: 10.3386/w26669


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  • (Score: -1, Troll) by EJ on Monday January 27 2020, @05:56PM (119 children)

    by EJ (2452) on Monday January 27 2020, @05:56PM (#949434)

    Brown University. Stanford University. XYZ University.

    I think the entire world would be much better off without the Poison Ivy League.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 27 2020, @06:13PM (113 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 27 2020, @06:13PM (#949442)

      More like better off without a major news network that pushes bald faced lies and misinformation as a matter of course, and the sheep who would rather deflect and attack rather than admit they are wrong.

      The lack of outrage from conservatives about the literal nazi wannabes in Charlottesville, sorry, VERY FINE PEOPLE, was absolutely disgusting. The continued defense of a criminal liar is even more telling.

      But yeah, it's hose damn liberal academics we really gotta be afraid of! Pay no mind to the literal fascist in the White House.

      Get with reality you polarized nuts.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 27 2020, @06:51PM (110 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 27 2020, @06:51PM (#949464)

        "Nazi" is a epithet made up by Jews. There is no such group. The violence at Charlottesville was manufactured for political purposes. The Jews sent in operatives to agitate the conservatives, national socialists and other groups, including White Nationalists. The cops were there to make sure the two groups collided and the Jews got their "Evil Nazis" story. Heather's friends shouldn't have been attacking that guy's car, and she should have gotten her fat ass out of the way. Fuck that race traitor.

        • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 27 2020, @07:07PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 27 2020, @07:07PM (#949481)

          Aww the racist got triggered, should we throw a pity party?

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Monday January 27 2020, @07:13PM (105 children)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday January 27 2020, @07:13PM (#949484) Journal

          Remember when personal responsibility was a whole thing with conservatives.

          Now, literally every problem they have is some global conspiracy that means they're not responsible for a single goddamn thing in their life.

          How pathetic. Man the fuck up you whiny little bitch.

          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Monday January 27 2020, @08:55PM (104 children)

            by edIII (791) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 27 2020, @08:55PM (#949557)

            No fucking kidding.

            My whole life talking with conservatives, the problems with social programs came from people with "poor personal responsibility". You survived and thrived in a Capitalist world because of your personal responsibility, not blaming class warfare, or concerted efforts to create duress in market places, price fixing, corruption, you name it. They were against the "victimhood" psychology that dared to lay the blame against powerful bad actors. For instance, no homeless person in Sonoma County is a victim of the greed of the rich raising housing prices by 400% in 5 years while wages stagnated and wholly failed to keep up. Some conservative cunt here locally is raising hell about the homeless camps, complaining that "these people made the choice to not contribute to society and be lowlifes", while others believe they're being bussed in from other counties. Regardless of the actual data showing the average homeless person in Sonoma County lived there for over 3 years before becoming homeless, and during the same time period when costs of living raised up by over 400%.

            LOL! What do we get from the conservative snowflakes now, plus head snowflake-in-chief? VICTIMHOOD. They're victims of Soros, the Liberuls, the Committee of 300 headed by the Queen, the Rothschild, and the Colonel before he went tits up! It's the JEWS (from our white nationalist conservative contingents), and some liberal conspiracy to force diversity everywhere and the destruction of the White Race American Exceptionalism! The Republicans are under attack by the "Godless" in a heinous attempt to reverse the "will of the people" naming their dictator-for-life.

            Conservatives, and especially religious conservatives are the most pathetic people on the face of the Earth now. Zero personal responsibility, conspiracy theories, lies, and the complete and total moral impotence to take any corrective actions. Orange Anus could bugger a toddler on live TV before disemboweling the mother, and you would have the self-professed conservative leaders of morality defending his actions. I don't believe that is hyperbole at this point. Trump Derangement Syndrome is actually something Trump Supporters suffer from, and at its very heart lies victimhood. Nobody is a bigger victim than Trump.

             

            --
            Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
            • (Score: 0, Redundant) by slinches on Monday January 27 2020, @09:37PM (103 children)

              by slinches (5049) on Monday January 27 2020, @09:37PM (#949584)

              This type of partisan diatribe being modded up to +5 is emblematic of the polarization the story is talking about. edIII is vindicated in his hatred and it acts as an example to others that the best way to get attention is to call others names.

              • (Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Monday January 27 2020, @10:44PM (15 children)

                by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday January 27 2020, @10:44PM (#949625) Journal

                Yes, it is. One side is like "Nazis are totally cool now" and everyone else reacts in horror.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @05:59PM (14 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @05:59PM (#950141) Journal

                  One side is like "Nazis are totally cool now" and everyone else reacts in horror.

                  Which side is that? Last I checked both sides were still comparing the other side to Nazis and they weren't saying the other side was totally cool by that comparison!

                  • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday January 28 2020, @09:57PM (13 children)

                    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday January 28 2020, @09:57PM (#950261) Journal

                    The side with all the people who call THEMSELVES Nazis.

                    • (Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @11:29PM (12 children)

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @11:29PM (#950316) Journal

                      The side with all the people who call THEMSELVES Nazis.

                      Which side would that be again?

                      I find it interesting how you never actually state that side. Strikes me that your subconscious knows you're lying and that's why you can't say it.

                      Or maybe you'll doing the peeling the onion [soylentnews.org] thing and we'll find a dozen posts down the road that's it Moon Nazis controlling both of the parties through their Lizaroid allies and the Freemasons. But you can't let your true beliefs slip right now or it'd totally derail the thread - with laughter.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 29 2020, @12:34AM (1 child)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 29 2020, @12:34AM (#950345)

                        Hmm, your deflection away from the overly obvious is strange. Do you just hate being associated with Nazis and think it is unfair? Or are you gaslighting everyone with the "democrats are the real nazis" line?

                        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday January 30 2020, @03:47AM

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 30 2020, @03:47AM (#951018) Journal

                          Hmm, your deflection away from the overly obvious is strange. Do you just hate being associated with Nazis and think it is unfair?

                          I think everyone who's willing to associate me with Nazis is an idiot. That's all. Moving on, let's explore the onion technique a little. For example consider this little bit of racism [ricochet.com]:

                          Marketwatch posted a piece today listing the American cities where violent crime is most prevalent. The worst of the lot is Detroit, which was, 65 years ago, the wealthiest city per capita in the United States. Then comes Oakland, Memphis, St. Louis, Cleveland, Little Rock, Baltimore, Rockford in Illinois, Milwaukee, and Birmingham in Alabama.

                          The piece is an honest attempt to find what unites these cities. But it is skewed by its trust in the standard liberal cliches. So after specifying the crime rate, the population of the city, and the number of murders in 2013, it specifies the poverty rate — as if to imply that poverty is “the root cause” of crime. No other common denominator is mentioned.

                          And yet, apart from poverty, there is one other common characteristic uniting these communities — a characteristic that we are not allowed to talk about.

                          Spoiler: it's the blacks. Notice how he doesn't come out and say it? He has to creep up on it like a lion stalking a zebra.

                          Now for our former resident flat Earther. He starts out with the assertions [soylentnews.org] that there are photographic artifacts in Apollo mission videos from the Moon that indicate they were taken in atmosphere, along with the assertions that the Apollo program is faked and the Earth is flat. He spent much of that thread claiming he had conducted all sorts of experiments that showed the world is flat and non-rotating. Now you might ask, isn't claiming that there's a flat Earth pretty damn far out there? Well, it turns out that there's more layers to that onion than merely that the world is flat.

                          The next bombshell came a few weeks later when someone, perhaps me, asked why the several hundred thousand people working on the Apollo program never blabbed. It was fear of the Freemasons which kept them in line. Googling around, I saw that the Freemason narrative is that Satan is using the Freemasons to hide that the world is flat. Ok, so why is that important?

                          The final piece fell into place when the concept of "energian planes" was introduced. From a single biblical verse [franknelte.net] (2 Thessalonians 2:11):

                          And FOR THIS CAUSE God shall send them STRONG DELUSION, that they should believe a lie:

                          That emphasized part was in the original Greek "energian planes" (literally translated would be "working of delusion"). What this means in practical terms is that the entirety of science, not just the shape of the Earth or the structure of the Moon, is a deception sprung upon the wicked by God himself. Satan and the Freemasons are just incidental actors going along with it. That means every bit of science is subject to the same level of deception as our knowledge of the Earth and Moon. And of course, the righteous are the only ones who can see through this.

                          Once again, the same stalking upon the truth that dares not tell everything at once because otherwise, it'd just get laughed out of town on the first go.

                          So anyway, perhaps you will be insulted by this comparison to racist dog-whistling and flat Earth conspiracies. Good. I hope it will eventually spur you to change your ways.

                      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday January 29 2020, @01:18AM (9 children)

                        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 29 2020, @01:18AM (#950375) Journal

                        The side, you disingenuous walking abortion, that chants "You will not replace us," throws the heil, scribbles malformed swastikas all over the place, and thinks the number 1488 is sacred. That side. The side, you Hellbound sack of evil in a human skin, that aligns themselves with Nazis in belief and word and deed.

                        That side.

                        --
                        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                        • (Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Thursday January 30 2020, @03:51AM (8 children)

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 30 2020, @03:51AM (#951021) Journal

                          The side, you disingenuous walking abortion, that chants "You will not replace us," throws the heil, scribbles malformed swastikas all over the place, and thinks the number 1488 is sacred.

                          Which side would that be again, you bed-wetting imbecile?

                          I'm not surprised that you decided to waste a post on this. Here's my take [soylentnews.org] on this bit of looniness.

                          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday January 30 2020, @03:35PM (7 children)

                            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 30 2020, @03:35PM (#951206) Journal

                            Go to Hell. You know very well which side it is as they've been all over the news for the last nearly 4 years. Here's a free hint: I've never seen a liberal spraypainting a swastika anywhere.

                            --
                            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 31 2020, @12:45AM (6 children)

                              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 31 2020, @12:45AM (#951513) Journal

                              You know very well which side it is as they've been all over the news for the last nearly 4 years.

                              I've seen plenty of nazis all over the political spectrum. No particular side to them.

                              Here's a free hint: I've never seen a liberal spraypainting a swastika anywhere.

                              I haven't seen anyone spraypainting swastikas. But I have read about hoax hate crimes. Those occasionally involve spraypainted swastikas. .

                              • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 31 2020, @11:47PM (5 children)

                                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 31 2020, @11:47PM (#952062) Journal

                                Ah, I see your problem: selective attention. Sure, if you deliberately tune out what's happening in the world and just go looking for incidents that validate your pre-existing prejudices, all that will happen is reinforcement. That's dishonest, though, and makes you critically uninformed. It also means you have zero credibility in the wider world outside your own skull.

                                --
                                I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                • (Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:26AM (4 children)

                                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:26AM (#952187) Journal

                                  Ah, I see your problem: selective attention.

                                  I find it interesting how you went immediately from "I've never seen a liberal spraypainting a swastika" to "selective attention" after I gave the counterexample of hoax hate crimes. Nobody here projects harder than you do.

                                  Frankly, I don't care for your absurd concerns. There's laws against spraypainting stuff on other peoples' property: vandalism and trespassing. It's a solved problem once the laws are enforced.

                                  My take is that you're just another nutcase here like oh, the white nationalists or the flat Earthers. You have the same shoddy reasoning and the same filtering of reality. When your brain is engaged and you're thinking, you can be quite interesting to listen to. When you're off your meds, meh.

                                  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:07PM (3 children)

                                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:07PM (#952339) Journal

                                    I actually never have seen a liberal spraypainting a swastika, so that still holds. And "selective attention" also still holds, and is a serious problem among your kind. Why do you think, also, that one person committing a hoax suddenly makes all the real crimes become not-crimes? Take your worthless whataboutism and shove it up your ass so hard you choke on it, then die and burn in Hell. You are, in the final analysis, just as guilty as the ones who actually do the crimes, because you support and defend and deflect from them.

                                    --
                                    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                    • (Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Saturday February 01 2020, @05:40PM (2 children)

                                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 01 2020, @05:40PM (#952408) Journal
                                      And I've never seen anyone outside of movies spraying those things. Guess that means it doesn't happen outside of the movies, right? Because otherwise why is your or my perceptions relevant?

                                      Why do you think, also, that one person committing a hoax suddenly makes all the real crimes become not-crimes?

                                      Oh how the worm wriggles! False accusations! No, I didn't say such a thing. Nor is this some case of whataboutism. You made a broad claim. I provided a counterexample. Now you're saving face.

                                      Finally, the premise of this whole thread is ridiculous. A few people spray swastikas and sudden a whole "side" is alleged to be tainted. By that same poor logic why aren't you tainted because there are hoaxes somewhere in the world?

                                      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 01 2020, @11:04PM (1 child)

                                        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 01 2020, @11:04PM (#952544) Journal

                                        Because I'm 1) not speaking of the hoaxes and 2) specifically pointing out that there is no such thing as neutrality; even if you yourself are not goose-stepping and throwing the Heil, if you do not oppose these people, and if you keep posting shit in support of them, you are one degree of freedom/guilt away from them. Yes, it's guilt by association when you freely choose to associate with them.

                                        --
                                        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                        • (Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Sunday February 02 2020, @04:00AM

                                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday February 02 2020, @04:00AM (#952631) Journal

                                          not speaking of the hoaxes

                                          So what? I spoke of them. Good enough for me.

                                          specifically pointing out that there is no such thing as neutrality

                                          Falsehoods remain false no matter how many times you point them out.

                                          if you do not oppose these people, and if you keep posting shit in support of them, you are one degree of freedom/guilt away from them.

                                          Here's the straw man building again. If I don't engage in the Orwellian two minute hate then I "support" Nazis. That's such a stupid argument.

                                          you are one degree of freedom/guilt away from them

                                          Here's the only part of your post that has a sliver of truth to it. We're all one degree of freedom away from the unpopular assholes and freaks of society. It's easier to destroy their freedoms than ours. That's why I defend their right to be assholes and freaks. Because if I don't, I'll be next.

              • (Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Monday January 27 2020, @10:50PM (42 children)

                by edIII (791) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 27 2020, @10:50PM (#949631)

                Not at all. It's bipartisan, tripartisan, allpartisan, omnipartisan, whateverpartisan. You assume my "tribe" to be the opposite, and therefore partisan. That's faulty fucking logic, and emblematic of the problem.

                What do I hate again? Republicans? Conservatives? Far left liberals? Libertarians? No. TRUMP & CORRUPTION. That's what I hate, and what I lament about the morally bankrupt conservatives is the outright refusal to acknowledge and deal with reality:

                Trump is a fucking criminal, and a worthless piece of shit as an exemplar of Christian values. From day on of this fucking dumpster fire of an administration, it's been a reorg of the swamp, corruption at the highest levels, his demon spawn using our tax dollars to create more wealth, would-be-influencers spending tons of money at his properties, and the outright stated goal of destroying the government infrastructure we currently have with placements of corrupt wealthy donors with goals mutually exclusive with the mission statements of their departments. I could go on, but any reasonable person inside and outside of America can see the corruption. Especially outside, because those same problems have been pervasive in countries we derided previously.

                So when an entire group of people decide to deny reality, for deeply partisan reasons fundamentally associated with the deprivation of the others sides voice, I will call them out on their bullshit. There is nothing Christian about Trump, nor the actions of this administration, and Conservatives will have to deal with the loss of their respect for some time to come.

                You don't seem to have a handle on the magnitude of the loss that Conservatives are facing. That denial of reality means to the rest of us (all other tribes), that you've willingly abandoned all principles in order to win at all costs. Nothing could be a more abject failure to serve the people. Pick; Religion or Politics. Either one, Conservatives follow a fake and hollow leader that so very clearly embodies none of the traits they espouse as honorable and decent.

                The Emperors New Clothes is what this era will be referred to by historians.

                --
                Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
                • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday January 27 2020, @11:34PM

                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 27 2020, @11:34PM (#949659) Journal

                  What do I hate again? Republicans? Conservatives? Far left liberals? Libertarians? No. TRUMP & CORRUPTION.

                  Stop hating Trump, he's a transient nobody.
                  Hating corruption is enough and corruption will outlast Trump (letting aside that Trump didn't "invent" it, he is only using it).

                  --
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
                • (Score: 4, Interesting) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:29AM (29 children)

                  by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:29AM (#949696) Journal
                  The fact that so many who profess Christian values shows just how flexible their so-called moral standards are. A study by a Christian organization actually had the integrity to report that christians had the majority of abortions in the USA. The finding wasn't a surprise - sex is in the air at any Christian camp. What was surprising was they didn't suppress their findings.

                  The hey should be applauded for publishing the truth, it's so rare in Christian circles.

                  Planned parenthood needs to start going through their clients records and cross index them with voting registration lists. Republican, had an abortion - "hi, we would like to talk to you about abortion rights and your hypocrisy." Just the rumour that they have such a list might get some Republicans talking about how abortion isn't the evil they make it out to be for political reasons.

                  --
                  SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by deimtee on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:22AM (26 children)

                    by deimtee (3272) on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:22AM (#949811) Journal

                    Planned parenthood needs to start going through their clients records and cross index them with voting registration lists. Republican, had an abortion - "hi, we would like to talk to you about abortion rights and your hypocrisy." Just the rumour that they have such a list might get some Republicans talking about how abortion isn't the evil they make it out to be for political reasons.

                    So you are apparently fine with doxxing and blackmail?
                    You don't know the circumstances of any particular abortion, and group punishments are unequivocally evil.

                    --
                    No problem is insoluble, but at Ksp = 2.943×10−25 Mercury Sulphide comes close.
                    • (Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday January 28 2020, @09:51AM (10 children)

                      by sjames (2882) on Tuesday January 28 2020, @09:51AM (#949995) Journal

                      IO don't see any suggestions of doxxing or blackmail suggested.

                      Doxxing would be publishing the information publicly. Blackmail would be the threat to do so. Talking privately is neither of those things.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:01PM (2 children)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:01PM (#950025)

                        Blackmail is not done from a radio so get your head out of whatever ass's ass you have implanted it in.

                        • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:48PM

                          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:48PM (#950102) Journal

                          Blackmail is not done from a radio so get your head out of whatever ass's ass you have implanted it in.

                          No, blackmail and intimidation are now done via Twitter. Just ask Trump.

                          --
                          SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                        • (Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday January 29 2020, @09:32AM

                          by sjames (2882) on Wednesday January 29 2020, @09:32AM (#950565) Journal

                          Perhaps the ass you pulled radio out of, because certainly it wasn't being discussed here.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:04PM (6 children)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:04PM (#950076)

                        "Gee, sure is a nice life you've got here. Be a real shame if everyone found out about that abortion wouldn't it"

                        "Gee, sure is a nice building you've got here. Be a real shame if it burned down wouldn't it"

                        • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:05PM (4 children)

                          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:05PM (#950108) Journal

                          Hey, they aren't willing to practice what they preach, - "what would Jesus do?" - even Jesus publicly condemned the hypocrites. If they don't like it, they can always rewrite the bible again.

                          Or they can stop being hypocrites. Stand up for the rights of women to control their own bodies. Religions that don't allow that deserve to be publicly humiliated for their hypocrisy, same as politicians who publicly want lgbt to burn in hell but are themselves in the closet. Practice what you preach or STFU (stop preaching).

                          I can't believe how cowardly people have become. 10 years ago I was walking my dogs (this is post-transition but before my eyes went, so at 143 pounds and 5'7" I wasn't exactly an imposing figure). I turned the corner and saw what I first thought was a gang of people around one individual kicking a dog. Well, can't have that ...

                          As I got closer, I saw that it was a black guy pounding the crap out of another black guy, surrounded by about 20 other blacks cheering him on. So I got in the face of the guy doing the beating, while all the other white folk going home from the commuter train just turned their heads away as they passed by, studiously avoiding even being seen as noticing it.

                          What is wrong with you people? You only do right when it's at no personal risk? You won't intervene to stop violence because you might get hurt? Kind of stupid logic - someone else is getting hurt, wouldn't you want them to intervene if the situation were reversed?

                          Or is there also an element of racism? "It's just the way those people are." "They're not one of us, so I'm not getting involved." "We don't behave like that, so they deserve what they get."

                          Bullies always need to be confronted. When the cops showed up, they wanted me away from the mob, so I left, but what would have happened if I had done what cowards do and looked the other way because "don't get involved?"

                          Every white person who walked by without even stopping made me ashamed to be white. "White privilege" so quickly becomes "white cowardice."

                          --
                          SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                          • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Tuesday January 28 2020, @07:04PM (3 children)

                            by deimtee (3272) on Tuesday January 28 2020, @07:04PM (#950183) Journal

                            Hey, they aren't willing to practice what they preach, - "what would Jesus do?" - even Jesus publicly condemned the hypocrites. If they don't like it, they can always rewrite the bible again.

                            I will stand by my assertion that group punishments are evil. You want to punish women who got abortions, for what other, probably unrelated, people are doing. You are evil.

                            ...

                            As for the rest of your post, wow, I don't often see that level of unconscious racism. It's lucky you were there to take care of them poor darkies. /sarcasm.

                            --
                            No problem is insoluble, but at Ksp = 2.943×10−25 Mercury Sulphide comes close.
                            • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @08:47PM (2 children)

                              by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @08:47PM (#950217) Journal

                              Groups that commit the crime, do the time. You drive the getaway car, you're still charged with the murder of the bank guard.

                              We're social beings, and we understand collective responsibility. It's when collective responsibility collapses, as it has in the case of the hypocrites who push against women's right to get an abortion but themselves procure abortions, that the sense of collective responsibility collapses. It becomes "one law for me and mine, another for the rest of you dirty scum."

                              The best way to deal with hypocrisy is to expose it. All the anti-abortionists who like the thump the bible need to learn that Jesus exposed the hypocrites because he hated them with a passion. You simply cannot be a hypocrite and a christian according to the bible.

                              And if we throw away the bible, then where's their basis for undermining a woman's right to control her own body? There is none. Same as nobody is telling them that everyone has to get an abortion, nobody should be saying that nobody can have an abortion. It's my body, my life - abortion, euthanasia, sex change,sexual orientation, nobody else has a right to tell me what to do with my body.

                              People who have had abortions or procured abortions for someone they got pregnant and still say that others don't have a right to an abortion are hurting those who want abortions. We see it all the time with both anti-abortion laws and withholding funding for sex education and contraception.

                              The Hyde Amendment needs to go, as do all other anti-abortion laws. They are causing needless suffering. If exposing hypocrites is part of that process, "pour encourager les autres" to be a bit less hypocritical, hey, don't be a hypocrite. Be honest about why it was necessary in your case, and encourage compassion and abortion services for others in the same situation.

                              Or don't. But this is 2020 - do you really believe that anything can be kept a secret? All those fake "family planning clinics" that are there only to try to coerce women into not getting abortions by such devious tactics as showing other people's unltrasounds and saying "see - this is your baby, you're too far along to get an abortion anyway" are committing fraud.

                              On the other hand, since they're very careful not to go over the line into actually offering real medical care, they can sell their "client lists" - and if someone gets them one way or another it's not a HIPPA violation. So perhaps the best way to end that scam is to leak their client lists. Maybe that will get google to stop donating free advertising to them. At the very least, it will make people more aware that there are fake "clinics" out there who don't have women's best interests at heart, same as they don't have any other child's interest at heart after birth. When it comes to helping a woman and child, there are plenty of Christians who become ultra-libertarians. "Food stamps? Quit sponging off my tax dollars" - even though poor nutrition early in life results in a lifetime of extra costs to society.

                              The anti-abortionists are bullies, and deserve to be treated as such. That includes the women who, by their silence, encourage the curtailment of a basic civil right - the right to control your own body.

                              They're in the same boat as someone who sees violence in front of them and yet doesn't intervene, but still says they're against violence. They're not, not really.

                              Which brings us to your final innuendo. I was not wrong to intervene when I saw a mob beating on one person. The fact is, when it's black-on-black violence, most whites are chickenshit. The bystander effect [wikipedia.org] (better labelled as bystander apathy) kicks into high gear.

                              People are sometimes asked how they would act in hypothetical situations, such as when someone if being attacked. Oftentimes, it's "I would have acted differently." But that's just wishful thinking. I know I would act because I don't even hesitate to weigh out the pros and cons - and neither should anyone else. Someone is getting beaten up - you need to try to stop it, end of discussion. Same as if you're the one getting beaten up, you want others to try to intervene, not dither about whether it's too risky. When you dither, you put yourself at greater risk because you can't catch everyone else off-balance. You certainly don't want to give them the chance to assess the situation and realize that you're alone. And you don't want to give yourself the chance to be afraid and perhaps reconsider your options.

                              I intervene because it is the right thing to do. I learned as a kid that bullies will beat the crap out of you either way, so might as well do the right thing. It makes them think twice the next time they want to beat up on someone.

                              After all, bullies are the second-biggest cowards going. The biggest? Those who try to defend not intervening, because they know deep down that they would cut and run in a second.

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                              • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Tuesday January 28 2020, @09:34PM (1 child)

                                by deimtee (3272) on Tuesday January 28 2020, @09:34PM (#950244) Journal

                                That's a big wall of text, which entirely misses the point.

                                I don't care about the bible, and I am a pro-liberty, pro-choice, atheist.

                                I have an ethical objection to group punishments.

                                You are advocating ruining peoples lives for something other people are doing. Do you really think some young girl who was raped and had an abortion has any control over what the bible thumpers are doing? Your blackmail won't work because she doesn't have that control. So you want to out her and fuck up her life because you can't tell the difference between an individual and some nebulous group you object to.

                                Let's get a bit more personal here. You've repeatedly stated in the past that many transsexuals are sex workers. I don't know if it's legal where you are, but if it isn't, should the cops arrest you for soliciting? Or if it is legal, should we just call you a whore?

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                                • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:06PM

                                  by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:06PM (#950267) Journal
                                  No, only those who did it and lied about it, and condemn others for doing the same. It's a very specific group - anti-abortionists who have procured abortions for themselves or a family member. If someone got an abortion in the past or aided someone to, and still condemns others today, they are lying hypocrites. If they got or procured an abortion in the past and are now not against abortion, they are not lying hypocrites. It's only the hypocrites, who continue to deny others what they in secret had themselves, who merit being called out.

                                  You totally missed the point. There are two different groups, and only one are hypocrites. As for calling me a whore, I've been called far worse, and no, I've never been a sex worker. Though one of my sisters did say I dressed like a prostitute because I had the top 3 buttons of my top open in 90 degree weather. Or maybe it was the 2" hoop earrings? Probably both. My reaction? "Works for me." When it's 90 degrees in the shade I'm going to dress for the weather. Top and skirt. Maybe a sun hat. Sandals or barefoot in the grass beside the sidewalk.

                                  Hardly makes me a whore. But it also doesn't invalidate that many transsexuals engage in the sex trade. Two different groups - those who do and those who don't. Same as anti-abortionists who have procured abortions, and those who haven't. Only the first group are self-entitled hypocrites.

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                        • (Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday January 29 2020, @09:27AM

                          by sjames (2882) on Wednesday January 29 2020, @09:27AM (#950563) Journal

                          You're making assumptions not suggested by OP.

                    • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:13PM (14 children)

                      by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:13PM (#950081) Journal

                      I have no problem with "doxxing". I've posted all my contact information online in threads where people whine that they're "being doxxed" because someone published their address. They seem to have forgotten that we used to have a free book delivered to every door with everyone's name, address, and phone number in it.

                      People have become such cowards, afraid to stand up for what they believe.

                      Second, I did NOT say to publish th records, just to let the Republican voters know that they exist as a nuclear option and to back off if they don't want their hypocrisy exposed in fighting abortion when so many republican men and women have benefited from abortions.

                      Or are you against exposing hypocrisy and in continuing to put women's health and lives in danger? Are you, perhaps, someone who's taken a hypocritical stand. I've seen enough "abortion is wrong - but my case is different and God is okay with it because Jeebus" stupidity. I would have no problem exposing the leaders who engage in this crap.

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                      • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:17PM (13 children)

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:17PM (#950150) Journal

                        They seem to have forgotten that we used to have a free book delivered to every door with everyone's name, address, and phone number in it.

                        And you could get your name taken out of that book. Private numbers [wikipedia.org] are a thing!

                        People have become such cowards, afraid to stand up for what they believe.

                        Like standing up for the right to change their phone number when a bunch of idiots start calling it? Doxxing can result in your phone number becoming useless.

                        Second, I did NOT say to publish th records, just to let the Republican voters know that they exist as a nuclear option and to back off if they don't want their hypocrisy exposed in fighting abortion when so many republican men and women have benefited from abortions.

                        Even the threat would generate numerous felony charges from inappropriate use of medical information and blackmail, which is worse than some people being hypocrites.

                        Or are you against exposing hypocrisy and in continuing to put women's health and lives in danger? Are you, perhaps, someone who's taken a hypocritical stand. I've seen enough "abortion is wrong - but my case is different and God is okay with it because Jeebus" stupidity. I would have no problem exposing the leaders who engage in this crap.

                        This is an example of how polarization gets worse. The other side is so bad we must blackmail the voting public. Exposing the leaders is one thing - there are ways to do that which don't involve committing vast numbers of felonies. You went beyond that because you perceived the issue as being so important that a important rule could be broken.

                        So what happens when the other side of US politics now has that mass rule breaking as an issue to justify their next wave of shenanigans? This would just escalate the polarization.

                        • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:58PM (1 child)

                          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:58PM (#950179) Journal

                          Actually, you-had to pay to get your number removed from the standard phone book - But there were always other sources.

                          Also, we have caller ID, and you can tell your phone to not let through any call without a caller ID, or even just allow from a whitelist. It's not 1980 any more. My phone number is on the net - I haven't experienced a wave of crank calls - just the usual scams, and I make it a point to ask them what the weather is like in Mumbai or Hyalabad. Waste their time so they have less free time to call someone else. It's just me doing my civic duty to combat crime while having a bit of fun pissing off the scammers.

                          The only problem with that is eventually you get on assorted blacklists so the scammers stop calling, but I'm okay with that too.

                          As for the rest, people have been revealed to have had or procured an abortion, have AIDS, etc., and if it's not procured from a medical provider and the person voluntarily disclosed it, there's no violation of the law. In other words, those fake clinics that try to dissuade people from getting abortions are a prime source of such information. They don't provide any medical services, they know who has come through their doors, etc. The ultrasound images that they show people are fake, trying to convince women that they are too far along to get a pregnancy, and they don't have to meet HIPPA standards because they are not real clinics providing medical advice. They're very careful not to cross that legal threashold.

                          So your "vast number of felonies " just went down the shitter, since the fake clinics will sell the information quite legally, and thanks to "parallel construction ", even if the original source was a real clinic, if you get a second copy of the information legally, it's all legal. Ask the cops - they do it all the time. ,

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                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:09PM

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:09PM (#950269) Journal

                            So your "vast number of felonies " just went down the shitter, since the fake clinics will sell the information quite legally, and thanks to "parallel construction ", even if the original source was a real clinic, if you get a second copy of the information legally, it's all legal.

                            Sorry, it's not true in the US, medical information no matter the source is subject [cornell.edu] to HIPAA (a person, who knowingly gathering and maliciously revealing medical information that can be individually identified, can be fined up to $250k and 10 years in prison). I bet Canada is the same way.

                        • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @08:57PM (10 children)

                          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @08:57PM (#950224) Journal

                          By the way, remember the part in the Bible where Jesus was confronted by the Pharisees about an adulterous woman and he said "Let you who is without sin cast the first stone." After being bugged some more, he began writing in the sand, and one by one they left? He was listing their individual sins for everyone to see.

                          If it's good enough for Jeebus ... then it should be good enough for atheists to treat Christians that way too. Many are just modern-day Pharisees anyway.

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                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @09:57PM (9 children)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @09:57PM (#950260) Journal

                            If it's good enough for Jeebus ... then it should be good enough for atheists to treat Christians that way too. Many are just modern-day Pharisees anyway.

                            Well, how about you commit a few thousand felonies of that and tell me how it works out for you.

                            And what should happen if someone does that to you? Where your hypocrisy gets publicly revealed while theirs doesn't?

                            • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:19PM (8 children)

                              by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:19PM (#950275) Journal
                              As I pointed out, it's not a felony, so stop with the bullshit. In case you haven't followed the news in the last couple of decades, people have been outed for procuring an abortion for their mistress on the sly so their wives wouldn't find out,?the sources don't get arrested. Someone sees them going into an abortion clinic and takes pix, where's the felony. A client in the clinic sees her anti-abortion pastor accompanying a family member and tells the other parishioners, where's the felony?

                              Someone buys me clients list from one of those fake family planning clinics that actually doesn't offer any medical services because it's run by a group of anti-abortion activists and doesn't need a license to operate, just "offers counseling ". Where's the felony?

                              No laws broken at any point.

                              But now that many health care providers use google to store their data, you can expect to see all sorts of medical information to surface.

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                              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:55PM (7 children)

                                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:55PM (#950298) Journal

                                As I pointed out, it's not a felony, so stop with the bullshit. In case you haven't followed the news in the last couple of decades, people have been outed for procuring an abortion for their mistress on the sly so their wives wouldn't find out,?the sources don't get arrested.

                                Public figures have far less defenses against such things. And you are deliberately collecting medical information.

                                • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @11:56PM (6 children)

                                  by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @11:56PM (#950325) Journal
                                  That somebody went to a fake abortion clinic is not medical information. The fake clinics, by definition, don't treat patients. It's no more medical information than if someone went to a drugstore ore a movie theatre. Or aren't you clear about the concept of "fake" in the term fake medical clinic. They are not doing anything that comes under the definition of medical - they're just a bunch of anti-abortionists trying to deter people from getting to a real clinic, one that can actually provide medical treatment.

                                  Think of it the same as all those tv shows where actors pretend to get married. It's not real. They don't need to get a divorce from their current spouse to go through the fake wedding ceremony.

                                  And you could probably buy information from some internet company that gave you the information on anyone who searched for a real abortion clinic. That's not medical information either. Same as they were selling ads targeting suicidal people.

                                  Your searches are public information. You consent to that when you do a search. As well as your information being sold.

                                  Now if the republicans were in Europe they would have a certain "right to be forgotten ", but in the US freedom of speech applies to everyone who isn't a protected minority - and abortion is not a protected minority - thanks to republicans, including those who have procured abortions while trying to deprive them to others.

                                  And there's nothing to stop such a list being posted on wikileaks or a similar site outside the US. Russia would probably develop such a list just to have leverage. Anything to stir up crap.

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                                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday January 29 2020, @12:07AM (5 children)

                                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 29 2020, @12:07AM (#950332) Journal

                                    That somebody went to a fake abortion clinic is not medical information.

                                    Actually it is.

                                    It's no more medical information than if someone went to a drugstore ore a movie theatre.

                                    Drug stores are also subject to laws like HIPAA.

                                    They are not doing anything that comes under the definition of medical - they're just a bunch of anti-abortionists trying to deter people from getting to a real clinic, one that can actually provide medical treatment.

                                    It's still medical information and they're still subject to the laws of the land.

                                    And you could probably buy information from some internet company that gave you the information on anyone who searched for a real abortion clinic. That's not medical information either. Same as they were selling ads targeting suicidal people.

                                    The moment you link medical conditions to identifiable people, it becomes medical information.

                                    See the pattern?

                                    • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday January 29 2020, @12:51AM (4 children)

                                      by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Wednesday January 29 2020, @12:51AM (#950353) Journal
                                      Services provided by the pharmacist or technician are medical services. Buying a chocolate bar or a laptop aren't, and aren't covered by HIPPA even if the sale is performed by a pharmacist because the cashier hasn't come in yet. Neither is the fact that you entered or left the store. See the pretty security cameras? Try to shoplift a bunch of drugs, that video is not covered by HIPPA either.

                                      That you bought a box of Kleenex or Tampax or diapers is not medical information, even if bought at a drugstore. Even it it's linked to you, it's still not medical information just because it happens in a drugstore.

                                      Nothing the fake family planning shops do is medical information because they are not, by law, allied to perform any medical services. Non-medical services are simply not medical information. If they were, pro-choice folk could get them shut down for providing medical services without a license. But since they aren't medical providers and are very careful not to provide medical services ... their data is not protected by HIPPA. Find me one that claims to be covered by HIPPA and I'll happily forward the information to Planned Parenthood. They would love to shut the fakes down for medical fraud.

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                                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday January 30 2020, @01:56PM (3 children)

                                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 30 2020, @01:56PM (#951166) Journal

                                        Buying a chocolate bar or a laptop aren't, and aren't covered by HIPPA even if the sale is performed by a pharmacist because the cashier hasn't come in yet.

                                        Nobody said they were.

                                        That you bought a box of Kleenex or Tampax or diapers is not medical information, even if bought at a drugstore. Even it it's linked to you, it's still not medical information just because it happens in a drugstore.

                                        If you use that data to reconstruct medical conditions and identify those medical conditions with people, then you do fall under HIPAA. You know, what I've been saying all along.

                                        Nothing the fake family planning shops do is medical information because they are not, by law, allied to perform any medical services. Non-medical services are simply not medical information.

                                        Nor did anyone say they were. Awful lot of straw men in your post.

                                        But since they aren't medical providers and are very careful not to provide medical services ... their data is not protected by HIPPA.

                                        Wrong. Again, it's the handling of medical information not the providing of medical services that triggers HIPAA.

                                        Let me give you a real world example. As I've mentioned in the past, I do seasonal accounting work for a tourism/resort company in Yellowstone National Park. A number of years back, I decided to work winters in the park as well. That means working whatever is available. For about half a dozen years, that meant working security for a few months a year. Mostly that meant being a professional witness and shoveling a lot of snow.

                                        Every so often, in part because my location was barely high enough elevation to cause medical problems in some visitors and new employees, I would witness or assist guests and employees experiencing medical problems. To protect ourselves from liability, detailed reports of any such interactions were written up and submitted to my bosses. Even though I wasn't providing medical services, that information had to be kept under wraps more so than normal guest/employee interactions because of the medical information involved. And HIPAA was one of the big reasons why.

                                        In other words, you don't have to provide medical services in order to be subject to HIPAA. Selling candy bars or being a fake service doesn't immunize you from HIPAA requirements.

                                        • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday January 30 2020, @03:54PM (2 children)

                                          by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Thursday January 30 2020, @03:54PM (#951219) Journal

                                          Nope. If you are not a covered entity [hhs.gov], you are not governed by HIPPA.

                                          Text Resize A A A Print Print Share Share on facebook Share on twitter Share HIPAA for Professionals Regulatory Initiatives Privacy has sub items, Privacy Security has sub items, Security Breach Notification has sub items, Breach Notification Compliance & Enforcement has sub items, Compliance & Enforcement Special Topics has sub items, Special Topics Patient Safety has sub items, Patient Safety Covered Entities & Business Associates has sub items, Covered Entities & Business Associates Business Associates Business Associate Contracts Training & Resources FAQs for Professionals Other Administrative Simplification Rules Covered Entities and Business Associates The HIPAA Rules apply to covered entities and business associates.

                                          Individuals, organizations, and agencies that meet the definition of a covered entity under HIPAA must comply with the Rules' requirements to protect the privacy and security of health information and must provide individuals with certain rights with respect to their health information. If a covered entity engages a business associate to help it carry out its health care activities and functions, the covered entity must have a written business associate contract or other arrangement with the business associate that establishes specifically what the business associate has been engaged to do and requires the business associate to comply with the Rules’ requirements to protect the privacy and security of protected health information. In addition to these contractual obligations, business associates are directly liable for compliance with certain provisions of the HIPAA Rules.

                                          If an entity does not meet the definition of a covered entity or business associate, it does not have to comply with the HIPAA Rules. See definitions of “business associate” and “covered entity” at 45 CFR 160.103.

                                          Are you a health care provider, a health plan, or a health clearinghouse, or a worker or contractor for one of them? No? Then you are not bound by HIPPA.

                                          So threatening, say, a newspaper for violating HIPPA is ridiculous. Next time do some research before spouting off. You'll look less stupid.

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                                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 31 2020, @01:00AM (1 child)

                                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 31 2020, @01:00AM (#951521) Journal
                                            Not governed by explicit rules on handling medical information. I still think it's going to be jail time, if you play that game.

                                            Are you a health care provider, a health plan, or a health clearinghouse

                                            In your scenario the entity that collects medical data to shame conservatives counts as a health clearinghouse and hence, would be a covered entity.

                                            • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday January 31 2020, @02:39AM

                                              by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Friday January 31 2020, @02:39AM (#951588) Journal
                                              No it doesn't, because it's not a health entity, It's a fake. It's not licensed as a health entity, it doesn't employ doctors or nurses or other medical workers, and it doesn't provide health care. It's a front for anti-abortionists. Orf are you too stupid to look at the government's own definition of who is covered by HIPPA - can't even click on the link I provided?

                                              If are you just being stupid for the sake of argument yet again. You ALWAYS do this. Your reputation of arguing despite the facts is well known.

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                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:30AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:30AM (#949875)

                    Your thinking such a finding would be surprising is indicative of the bubbles in America driving everybody to absurd partisanship. More than 70% of the US is Christian. The only way Christians would not make up the majority is if there was some really huge number of non-Christians having abortions. Whereas far from it, blacks account for the plurality (and nearly the majority) of abortions and also have substantially higher [pewforum.org] rates of religiosity than whites (or any other group for that matter).

                    The reason an organization would report such a stat is to incentivize more Christians to argue from restrictions on abortion. Paradoxical if you don't understand. It's just in-group out-group stuff, like increasingly everything in America. If the out-group are killing their babies, who cares? If the in-group are, that's a different matter.

                  • (Score: 2) by Username on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:55PM

                    by Username (4557) on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:55PM (#950069)

                    Eh, this is where identity politics fail. Not all christians are the same. The catholic church is against abortion and considers it murder, a motal sin. The church also considers anyone who is baptized catholic, as catholic forever. Even if the person doesn't want to be associated with them. A lot of people do fake their catholic faith to get votes, like Joe Biden, only to attend church and get excommunicated since they support abortion and didn't realize what the church is about. He should have went to a protestant church, most of them support abortion.

                • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:48AM (10 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:48AM (#949883)

                  It starts with you. You're being hateful.

                  I think it is because you've been lied to. Trump really, truly, isn't corrupt.

                  Look at the supposed benefits. His fortune seems to have dropped from about $4 billion to $3 billion during his unprofitable adventure in politics. Every other politician is suspiciously getting rich: Obama, Sanders, Kerry, Clinton(s), Biden, many others, and even some republicans. Sanders is particularly interesting. He has never worked a non-elected job and has never worked a high-paying job, yet he owns 3 houses. Hmmm. At least we know where Trump got his billions from.

                  All the "dirt" on Trump has been piddly shit. He hired family, on lame-ass pitiful government salaries, taking them away from fancy-ass executive jobs that were raking in the money. (BTW, he donates his own salary) He DID NOT withhold aid from Ukraine, unlike Obama and Biden, so WTF on that one... and anyway it is his duty to pressure other countries into helping investigate corrupt Americans like the Biden family. That "emoluments" bullshit (what a fancy-ass word there to scare people) is trivial in size and anyway HE DONATES THE PROFIT.

                  • (Score: 4, Informative) by edIII on Tuesday January 28 2020, @05:56AM (7 children)

                    by edIII (791) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @05:56AM (#949923)

                    Yep. Those new clothes the Emperor is wearing sure are spiffy! Yes, sirreee.

                    Exactly what I mean. The complete inability to face reality due to partisan reasons. If you're not partisan, meaning a Trump supporter or conservative, than you're just simply oblivious and ignorant in the same fashion as Flat Earthers and those convinced Elvis is alive in a relationship with Ol' Squatch.

                    The emoluments clause isn't bullshit, and represents a core principal of my country. Yes, he very much fucking did, withhold aid from the Ukraine, as well as conspired to do so until his personal self-serving demands are met, and then finally delivered the actual ultimatum (quid pro quo) personally himself. That's only one of the glaring fucking issues too.

                    You're the perfect example of somebody suffering Trump Derangement Syndrome. What is the line? How bad does something have to be for him to do, before you find the moral and ethical impetus to admit he is the piece of shit that he is?

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                    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:52AM (6 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:52AM (#949951)

                      Can we at least find an example of Trump jaywalking? That would be worse than what he is accused of. Somebody could swerve to avoid him, and then crash into a parked car.

                      There is no emolument anyway. Trump does not take a salary from a foreign land. He doesn't even work for the hotels that foreigners are staying in; he just does brand licensing and investment. Can the man have an investment? Any normal 401K plan would include foreign shit; is that emoluments to you? Seriously, this emoluments claim is unreasonable.

                      Were you OK with Obama withholding aid to Ukraine? Obama never delivered the weapons. He blocked them until he left office.

                      Were you OK with Biden threatening $1,000,000,000 in aid to Ukraine, demanding that a prosecutor be fired (the one investigating Hunter Biden) immediately in exchange for the aid not being blocked?

                      It seems standard practice to withhold aid from Ukraine. Why is it suddenly an impeachable offense?

                      In the USA, our president oversees both the state department (foreign relations) and the federal prosecution. Both are under him in the org tree. He is our head of state. It is thus proper for him to assist his prosecutors by pressuring foreign leaders to cooperate. Not that Trump denied aid, but he had the right to do so. Trump also has the duty to ensure that prosecutors prosecute. In other words, if pressuring Ukraine with denial of aid would help to get the Biden corruption exposed for prosecution, then Trump has the duty to do it. The fact that Trump might personally benefit (not that he would... LOL, Biden???) is immaterial.

                      To make this clear with a non-presidential example: Suppose that Trump had been elected mayor of NYC. Suppose that 5th Avenue was torn up by a parade of heavy equipment. Trump lives on 5th Avenue. Is it corruption to fix up 5th Avenue, since Trump would personally benefit, or is the mayor actually supposed to keep the street in good repair? This is pretty much the Ukraine complaint... except that Trump is probably happy to have Biden win the primary.

                      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:04AM (5 children)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:04AM (#949998)

                        Can we at least find an example of Trump jaywalking?

                        That would be worse than what he is accused of.

                        Holy fuck.... Trump derangement syndrome right fucking there. The money was to be provided by LAW. But Trump stopped it in defiance of the LAW until his personal request was fulfilled.

                        This is like police officer would be ordered to escort your tax refund to you but then instead of giving you the money, they hold on to it until you do "a favor" for them instead. No favor, no fucking money. Then the police get caught and you are like "oh noes, poor corrupt police officer, so difficult life, why that asshole couldn't just do the favor instead?"

                        Were you OK with Biden threatening $1,000,000,000 in aid to Ukraine, demanding that a prosecutor be fired (the one investigating Hunter Biden) immediately in exchange for the aid not being blocked?

                        Yeah, Biden could have told Obama to veto the bill and the aid would be halted? That's per fucking law. Trump could have vetoed the bill too, but it was approved by everyone so his veto was worth fuck all.

                        The president has to follow the LAW. Trump has NO discretion about this military aid. But he fucking *defied* the law. And he *defined* the law for his *personal* gain. It wasn't for betterment of America, that's for fucking sure.

                        Can Trump name one fucking corrupt Ukrainian official?? NONE! That's exactly how much he cares about corruption. He fired the ambassador that was putting pressure on Ukraine to cleanup corruption in its institutions instead.

                        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:40PM (1 child)

                          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:40PM (#950162)

                          First of all, Trump derangement syndrome means an unreasonable obsessive hatred of Trump. That's you, not me.

                          Under the law, Trump can withhold aid. Fuck, he could drone people in Ukraine. He is the chief executive and commander in chief, in case you didn't know.

                          You really think it is just fine for Biden to abuse government resources (US aid to Ukraine) to stop an investigation into his own corruption? Come on. That is corruption on top of corruption. That, right there, is *personal* gain. It wasn't for betterment of America, that's for fucking sure.

                          Meanwhile, for betterment of America, we need to stop the Biden corruption. Trump has no *personal* gain from that, because it might make Biden lose the primary. It's personal loss. Trump would be happy to run against Biden. Anyway, since when is running for president an immunity from investigation? Obama investigated Trump, going well beyond what was legal. Of course Biden should be investigated, for the betterment of America, and it is a duty to make Ukraine cooperate.

                          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Tuesday January 28 2020, @08:36PM

                            by edIII (791) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @08:36PM (#950214)

                            You're definitely suffering from Chronic Trump Derangement Syndrome. You know how you can tell? Replace Trump with Obama and ask yourself if the Republicans wouldn't have been foaming at the mouth demanding Obama actually be shot for treason? Not just impeachment, but charges of treason.

                            The only reason why you're fighting so hard to justify criminal and corrupt behavior is tribalism. When that's pointed out to you, you're response is either tribalism too, or this amazing disconnect with reality where you spin criminal actions as positive ones. There are two responses to your insanity; Joining it in your retarded echo chamber of denialism, or stand back in horror as we realize you've all gone fucking insane.

                            You're so far gone it's impossible for you to see criminal and corrupt behavior for what it is.

                            --
                            Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
                        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:40PM (2 children)

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:40PM (#950163) Journal

                          The president has to follow the LAW. Trump has NO discretion about this military aid. But he fucking *defied* the law. And he *defined* the law for his *personal* gain. It wasn't for betterment of America, that's for fucking sure.

                          Two obvious rebuttals: Trump does have some discretion despite the claims to the contrary (such as, for example, the Ukraine doing things contrary to important US interests such as attacking the US). The issue at hand is whether Ukrainian failure to investigate a potential act of corruption by a high ranking US official, former VP Biden, counts as such an issue. I gather the Democrat position is no and the Republican position is a waffling yes.

                          And two, the two Bidens' actions being investigated lawfully are in the national interest even if the insistence on the investigation were done for Trump's advantage. We can't after all, expect Joe Biden's allies to call for the investigation. Such things are left to his enemies to do so. It would be nationally suicidal if we excused criminal activity if you could show some enemy had something to gain by any investigation and prosecution.

                          It'd be different, if Trump was being accused of violating the Bidens' constitutional rights for personal gain. But the Democrats have been very particular about not going there, perhaps because they don't want to risk there being some fire in that smoke.

                          • (Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday January 28 2020, @08:25PM (1 child)

                            by edIII (791) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @08:25PM (#950211)

                            Actually, you're a little wrong there. The real issue at hand isn't whether Trump can fight corruption, and can ask for an investigation. It's about how he did it. I agree that it's the President's job to do this, but not in a corrupt way.

                            Options:

                            1) Act like a strongman, deny aid, demand investigations into political rivals to receive aid.
                            2) Call a press conference. Announce that you are under the belief that an American politician acted improperly in the Ukraine, and that it's Biden. Publicly call upon the Ukraine to announce investigations where appropriate, the Department of Justice to conduct their investigations, and then bring up the matter before Congress asking them to investigate.

                            If he had properly delegated the job, and more importantly separated the job from the Congressionally mandated aid, and then stepped back and asked for the rest of us to do the job impartially to the best of our abilities... that would be one thing.

                            He didn't, and instead acted like a Mafia Don with threats and leverage. Which isn't really surprising at all giving the man's behavior, and such behavior is not appropriate for a US President. Ethically, Legally, or morally. This is not the foreign policy Americans should be proud of.

                            --
                            Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
                            • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:27PM

                              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:27PM (#950279)

                              Option 2 is gross and nasty. It is unmanly. It is impotent, weak, ineffective, and powerless. Such behavior is not appropriate for a US President. It would be an embarrassment for the nation.

                              Any president who would take option 2 is disqualified for holding office due to mental illness.

                              I damn well expect threats and leverage. Power is to be used. If you want an actor fag like Trudeau, move to Canada.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:21AM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:21AM (#949937)

                    "That "emoluments" bullshit (what a fancy-ass word there to scare people) is trivial in size and anyway HE DONATES THE PROFIT."

                    Bullshit law to prevent politicians from abusing their power for personal gain? Seems like a reasonable law to restrain the "most powerful position in the world." Hope he's not scamming those donations like every other venture he scams. Or did you miss his charity scam? Or his misappropriation of campaign funds?

                    Personally I don't care how trivial the size of graft is, he is stealing millions and millions from the American public. It is disheartening to see a fellow citizen believing the transparent excuses for corruption. Guess that is what happens when you tie your personal identity so closely that admitting fault in your idol will mean invalidating your own existence.

                    • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @09:01PM

                      by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @09:01PM (#950229) Journal
                      Sure he donates the profit. To his own charity, which then recycles the money back to him. That's why he was forced to close the charity - it was corrupt.
                      --
                      SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 27 2020, @10:51PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 27 2020, @10:51PM (#949632)

                But of course you only complain when THEY do it. If conservatives would stop whinging about snowflakes denying reality then maybe you wouldn't get those insults thrown in your hypocritical faces. I personally tried using facts and reasonable discussion, I've been blown off and insulted so much that I see no point in staying civil. Now I point out facts and send the insults back, fuck your double standard of civility.

                I'll retract my statements if you make a concerted effort to call out and downmod racist garbage and bipartisan callouts of ANY partisan diatribe.

              • (Score: 2) by Mykl on Monday January 27 2020, @11:26PM (36 children)

                by Mykl (1112) on Monday January 27 2020, @11:26PM (#949656)

                I agree that GPs posting was polarised. The question that was not asked by TFA though was - it is reasonable to be more polarised these days?

                It seems to me that the assumption being made by TFA is that we should all learn to just get along a bit more. Is that really a fair thing to ask when you have someone like Trump in office? The man actively sows discord and creates conflict because that's the game that he's most comfortable playing. Little wonder that the USA is becoming more partisan when the President has been leading the partisan movement for years now.

                The question I really find interesting is whether the partisanship is related to the 'ideological gap' between two parties. If we were to objectively (hah!) map parties on a scale between left and right (or conservative/progressive, or whatever you like), are the lefts moving more to the left, and the rights moving more to the right at the moment, or pretty much staying in the same place? Is the "affective polarization" growth in TFA in-line with any movement observed? In other words, is it just a matter of "x polarisation per unit of gap between ideology"? Would there be less polarisation if the two parties both moved toward the centre, or are the two parties now just basically football teams? Certainly in Australia, it seems to be that the two major parties are both moving toward the centre, so I don't find it surprising that affective polarization has reduced here (they both suck).

                • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday January 27 2020, @11:42PM (33 children)

                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 27 2020, @11:42PM (#949663) Journal

                  It seems to me that the assumption being made by TFA is that we should all learn to just get along a bit more. Is that really a fair thing to ask when you have someone like Trump in office?

                  Yes, it is fair.

                  The man actively sows discord and creates conflict because that's the game that he's most comfortable playing. Little wonder that the USA is becoming more partisan when the President has been leading the partisan movement for years now.

                  So, the fact that you (usians) are so prone to play into the discord game has no bearing in the consequences, right?
                  All is needed is to find an "escape goat"** and you are suddenly as innocent as a lamb, real life is something that's just happening for you, you don't have any control over it; you can even forget to consider your part of the responsibility for the result, much less do something about it.
                  Did you ever ask yourself what will happen after Trump is no more?

                  ---

                  ** Even better if the goat is not as innocent as the definition of the term imply.

                  --
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
                  • (Score: 5, Touché) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:34AM (32 children)

                    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:34AM (#949700) Journal
                    No, it's not fair. The only way to deal with either a bully or a psycho is to stand up to them hard, fast, and frequently. Anything else is seen as weakness to be exploited.

                    The same game theory that gave us MAD clearly shows this is the only way. Anything else shows they are right - you ARE weak and deserve to be bullied and exploited. They see their lack of empathy as a strength, even a superpower.

                    --
                    SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:50AM (23 children)

                      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:50AM (#949705) Journal

                      No, it's not fair. The only way to deal with either a bully or a psycho is to stand up to them hard, fast, and frequently. Anything else is seen as weakness to be exploited.

                      What is seen/perceived and what's the reality don't necessary overlap.

                      No, it's not fair. The only way to deal with either a bully or a psycho is to stand up to them hard, fast, and frequently.

                      Even when that's exactly what the bully asks from you?
                      Would you react to "Fight with these kids in my gang or else..." with "My pleasure. When do we start?" Does this even sound rational to you as a solution?

                      --
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
                      • (Score: 3, Informative) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @01:37AM (22 children)

                        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @01:37AM (#949728) Journal

                        No, it's not fair. The only way to deal with either a bully or a psycho is to stand up to them hard, fast, and frequently. Anything else is seen as weakness to be exploited.

                        What is seen/perceived and what's the reality don't necessary overlap.

                        In this case, it does. Both theory and experiment say so - and that's reality.

                        The only way to deal with either a bully or a psycho is to stand up to them hard, fast, and frequently.

                        Even when that's exactly what the bully asks from you?

                        Would you react to "Fight with these kids in my gang or else..." with "My pleasure. When do we start?" Does this even sound rational to you as a solution?

                        It's not only rational if you have no other choice, it's the best way to deal with bullies. Take on the biggest and hit them hard. Sure, you'll get the crap beaten out of you, but that's going to happen anyway, so you might as well give them something to consider next time.

                        Besides, every once in a while you get a lucky hit in. The school bully had me on my back on the school playground, was beating me, and I got in a lucky punch that knocked his front tooth out. Ended being bullied for a year - well worth it.

                        Contrary to your apparent position (or at least what you're arguing), which is based on bowing down to tyrants and bullies. Nothing good ever comes of that.

                        --
                        SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:07AM (20 children)

                          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:07AM (#949745) Journal

                          In this case, it does.
                          ...
                          Take on the biggest and hit them hard.

                          If you imagine that "violently discording with thy neighbor" is "hitting Trump hard", something is amiss in your ability to perceive the reality.

                          Contrary to your apparent position (or at least what you're arguing), which is based on bowing down to tyrants and bullies.

                          Never said so. I actually suggest that you conduct your life as if the bully doesn't exist.

                          In this case, you stop your quarrel with thy neighbour 'in the other tribe' and start to look on what you have in common with her/him. I'm sure you a gonna discover a lot more than what Trump suggest as good reasons to stick your teeth in your neighbor's neck.

                          --
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
                          • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:20AM (19 children)

                            by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:20AM (#949757) Journal

                            You're making some serious wrong and unethical assumptions. Sometimes it's not possible to walk away from a fight. You're going to get the beats either way. So bowing down is the absolutely stupidest thing you can do. You not only have the legal right to self-defence, you also have the moral obligation, because if you don't stand up to a bully, they will also go on and bully others.

                            In the case of Trump, he should have been impeached long ago. That congress waited so long gave the appearance that there might not be much of a case. So yes, hitting Trump early, hard, and repeatedly, with multiple impeachment charges, was the way to go according to the best science we have.

                            You can't let a bully get away with it or you're complicit in every act of bullying they go on to do thereafter. That's reality - you might have been able to stop it and you didn't.

                            The same applies to Randy Andy and Jeffrey Epstein, Donald Trump's sex and financial crimes before he was elected, and every racist out there. It's not enough to say "I'm not a racist." If you're not actively anti-racist, you're complicit by your quiet acquiescence. Same with anti-lgbt bigots.

                            --
                            SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:40AM (18 children)

                              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:40AM (#949772) Journal

                              Sometimes it's not possible to walk away from a fight.

                              So? Have it with minimal effort and, win or lose it, get ahead with your life together with the people that surround you.
                              Just make sure the one you fight is the actual enemy.

                              So bowing down is the absolutely stupidest thing you can do.
                              ...
                              In the case of Trump, he should have been impeached long ago.

                              And your permanent in-fight with your neighbor, who you have a lot more in common than in difference, is gonna solve Trump's impeachment... exactly how?
                              How are you contributing to a solution to your problem?

                              Hang on, given the stubbornness you continue to accuse me that I'm bowing to the (Trump?**) bully, I wonder if you can see what the problem plaguing both you and your neighbor-in-the-other-tribe actually is?

                              You can't let a bully get away with it or you're complicit in every act of bullying they go on to do thereafter. That's reality - you might have been able to stop it and you didn't.

                              Yeah. One of the unmistakable flavors of the savior complex - you may the one that are destined to save the world, if you even dare to sleep until the world is not saved then you are a traitor of some kind. Nevermind the responsibility of the others for their own "salvation".

                              "Road to hell and the good intentions", maybe you may want think a bit about.

                              ---
                              ** I'm not even American

                              --
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
                              • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:18AM (12 children)

                                by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:18AM (#949807) Journal

                                I am not in any sort of permanent infighting with any neighbour - that's your strawman argument. I am doing my best to ignore the neighbourhood alcoholic who keeps trying to hit on me. Not the same thing at all.

                                And your arguments ignore behavioural science and real-world experience. MAD works. It actually preserves the peace, but only if the other side knows you're ready to go to the mat if necessary. Fight if necessary, but not necessarily fight.

                                Personally, I don't give a shit if Trump gets re-elected or not. The clock is ticking on the US empire, same as all past empires. Who cares the identity of the next Nero fiddling while Rome burns?

                                And like more than 95% of the world's population, I'm not an American, so really, I'm sitting on the sidelines with popcorn at the ready. Same as Brexit. The Anglo-American empire is dying. I don't believe it can be saved, and I'm not sure it should be, since we're facing the biggest crisis we've ever faced, and Americans still don't believe in global warming and environmental degradation in sufficient quantities, and sufficient urgency, to do anything.

                                --
                                SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                                • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:42AM (11 children)

                                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:42AM (#949823) Journal

                                  I am not in any sort of permanent infighting with any neighbour

                                  That's not what TFA says.

                                  I am doing my best to ignore the neighbourhood alcoholic who keeps trying to hit on me.

                                  Oh, come on, Barbara. You know very well I'm not talking about your "neighbourhood alcoholic". How about you start considering the S/N dwellers as neighbours and look who you quarrel with most of the times.

                                  And your arguments ignore behavioural science and real-world experience. MAD works.

                                  1. Can you prove that's the only solution to US internal problems?
                                  2. Can you prove the equivalency between MAD and the corrupt and resource-draining-never-ending-dirty-electoral-campaign that is now the US political life?

                                  Personally, I don't give a shit if Trump gets re-elected or not.

                                  But you were (still are?) quick to push others to "resist the bully or else the world ends and it will be your fault", do I got that message it right?

                                  You not only have the legal right to self-defence, you also have the moral obligation, because if you don't stand up to a bully, they will also go on and bully others.

                                  If I got it, is this ethical?

                                  --
                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
                                  • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:22PM (10 children)

                                    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:22PM (#950084) Journal

                                    I am NOT in a permanent fight with my neighbours. I am not an American, so don't you DARE misconstrue American infighting (either purposefully or not) with my situation. That's what you've been doing, and it's disingenuous at the very least. What TFA says has no application whatsoever to my situation. It talks specifically about polarization among US citizens only.

                                    I've made my views clear many times. Trump is the crook that Americans got because in a democracy you ALWAYS get the government you deserve (not that the US is a democracy any more, but that is due to voters wilfully ignoring what's been going on for decades and instead looking for people who will feed their hyper-partisan interests - which again just goes to show that in a democracy you get the government you deserve; too weak-willed and ill-informed to ensure it stays a democracy? Don't blame the media, or bigcorp - look in the mirror).

                                    And yes, standing up to bullies is part of ensuring that democracy continues to be a democracy. But Americans have become too selfish, to short-sighted, to stand up to bullies, even when the opportunity is handed to them on a silver platter, as with the Mueller report. Meuller chickened out. He could have, and should have, laid charges. "Policy" is not an excuse to not do what is right, same as "I vas chust followink orders".

                                    --
                                    SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                                    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:20PM (9 children)

                                      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:20PM (#950115) Journal

                                      I am not an American, so don't you DARE misconstrue American infighting (either purposefully or not) with my situation.

                                      Unreserved apologies for that.

                                      And yes, standing up to bullies is part of ensuring that democracy continues to be a democracy. But Americans have become too selfish, to short-sighted, to stand up to bullies...

                                      However, by your own admission, you have - legally speaking - no skin in the American's (correction: USians) political game.
                                      Are you sure you can act as a "moral compass" for them? If they don't actually want to live in a democracy, if they traded democracy in exchange for their "temporary embarrassed billionaire"... who am I or you to say they must do otherwise.

                                      (Note that I said I see their infight as irrational - a matter of personal opinion - not that they are not entitled to do it. Whatever float their boats.
                                      The mainland Chinese seem to be happier with their govt, to the point of blaming Hong Kong for making such a fuss.
                                      The Vietnamese seem to be happy enough with their still communist regime - many visit Australia and choose to go back.
                                      Heck, the majority of Cubans made their choice too - as a fun fact, their life expectancy [worldlifeexpectancy.com] make them live under their regime one year longer than USians [worldlifeexpectancy.com])

                                      He could have, and should have, laid charges.

                                      You know the "Fiat justitia, pereat mundus"? In an approximate (tongue in cheeck) translation: "Rulz are rulz and if all break them, the entire civilization collapses anyway. Zo, let the mundus to pereat sooner if so it wishes, we are gonna uphold the rulz, 'cause that's what make us different from the barbarians". Do you really really want to fault him for that?
                                      ...

                                      And still propose that the rulez which you tabled are better and it is those that must be followed?
                                      --
                                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
                                      • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:04PM (8 children)

                                        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:04PM (#950144) Journal
                                        At this point it's apparent that moral and ethical compasses are irrelevant to many Americans - they openly admit it. Can't argue ethics with people who have none and are proud of it. Can't expect them to base their actions on right vs wrong when the only right they acknowledge is their right to win at all costs. So the only tactic that can be used is the same one as dealing with bullies - because they will never fight fair.

                                        People asked how it was possible for the nation of Germany to descend into Naziism. But Germans voted for Hitler, same as all hey voted for Trump. Both were opportunistic racists, and racism is a lever like none other. -

                                        At least this time it will most likely not engulf the whole world. That's one benefit of the US's policy of increased self-isolation. But it's gonna be messy for everyone no matter where you live on the planet.

                                        --
                                        SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
                                        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 31 2020, @11:51PM (7 children)

                                          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 31 2020, @11:51PM (#952063) Journal

                                          I just hope to fuck I can get out of this place before it all comes crashing down. Being poor and female and gay (and closeted, in meatspace...) does not make this an easy proposition, especially not given all the shit I'm dealing with.

                                          --
                                          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                          • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:29AM (6 children)

                                            by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:29AM (#952083) Journal

                                            Now that Trump will be acquitted and probably win election you're a prime candidate for refugee status in Canada. Persecution for being lgbt is often invoked by refugees.

                                            With the way the refugee process is already backed up something like 5 years with appeals due to the huge influx of people coming illegally into Canada by just walking across the border at Roxton Pond, it's well known how easy peasey it is.

                                            Walk across the border.
                                            Nice cops arrest you, bring you and your baggage to a trailer park office
                                            Say you're a refugee.
                                            Do the paperwork.
                                            Identity check to make sure there's no international arrest warrants
                                            Get paperwork showing you're eligible for free health care, public assistance
                                            Brought by bus to temp shelter if you don't have anyone to go to.

                                            In by 9, out by 5

                                            https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/refugee-claimants-forced-to-turn-to-welfare-as-work-permits-stalled-in-federal-bureaucracy-1.4769385 [ctvnews.ca]

                                            Bring documentation of education and work experience and you'll probably be working within a month - we have a severe worker shortage,

                                            Or just apply for a work visa. Like I said, huge worker shortage, government is actively holding job fairs in other countries.

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                                            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:37AM (5 children)

                                              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:37AM (#952088) Journal

                                              Think I should get PTCB certified first? Would having the shiny expensive piece of paper that tells the HR grindbots I know what I know make a work visa easier?

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                                              • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:58AM (4 children)

                                                by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:58AM (#952095) Journal

                                                You can do it on the job here - or maybe not even bother. I know my sister worked for years as a lab tech - but her husband owned the pharmacy. Either way, education is WAY cheaper here. I think someone with refugee status pays the same as a local - sometihing like 5-10% of what an education costs in the USA for a degree.

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                                                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 01 2020, @02:25AM (3 children)

                                                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 01 2020, @02:25AM (#952127) Journal

                                                  Oh, it's a corporate cert, not an accredited education program. It's like CompTIA A+ for people who put pills in bottles instead of RAM in DIMM slots.

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                                                  • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Saturday February 01 2020, @02:35AM (2 children)

                                                    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Saturday February 01 2020, @02:35AM (#952131) Journal
                                                    Okay. Then you won't need it. I've asked my sister what the route is for such things here - explained that with Trump now likely to be re-elected there's going to be a lot more illegal refugees coming to Canada. The labour shortage up here is crazy - we even have government programs encouraging foreign restaurant workers to immigrate because restaurants can't find the staff. Complete with free second language courses if needed.
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                                                    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:14AM (1 child)

                                                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:14AM (#952153) Journal

                                                      Helluva world we live in, huh? :/ I'll have a year of outpatient experience this June; with that and the PTCB cert I'll be attractive enough to come in on a work visa, no?

                                                      --
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                                                      • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:06AM

                                                        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:06AM (#952174) Journal
                                                        You probably already are. Like I said, we've got shortages - it's on the news pretty much every night as employers complain to the government to do something more
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                              • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:07PM (4 children)

                                by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:07PM (#950077) Journal
                                What "permanent fight with my neighbour?" Never happened, so stop with the bullshit strawman arguments.
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                                • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:23PM (3 children)

                                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:23PM (#950116) Journal

                                  Ok, ok. My fault for not noticing you trace moral rules for the people living inside from the outside the system.

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                                  • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:18PM (2 children)

                                    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:18PM (#950151) Journal

                                    Why not? There's a reason why the Universal Declaration of Human Rights uses the term "universal." I don't see any reason to suspend judgment of what is moral or ethical just because of a border. Racism, homophobia, transmisogeny, sexual violence, slavery, child exploitation, rape, men telling women what we can and can't do with our bodies without giving us equal domain over theirs, animal cruelty, re-education camps for religious minorities, environmental destruction, FGM, attempts to change someone's sexual or gender orientation, torture, etc don't become okay just because some country says that it's part of their local customs.

                                    Neither human, animal, or environmental rights stop at borders. The reality is that reality ignores borders anyway - just ask the coronavirus patients. What goes around comes around whether we like it or not.

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                                    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:02PM (1 child)

                                      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:02PM (#950264) Journal

                                      There's a reason why the Universal Declaration of Human Rights uses the term "universal."

                                      There's also a reason for which the document is not called "Universal Declaration of Human Obligations".
                                      The declaration give you the right to speak you mind, yes. But when they are giving away their rights by themselves, I believe the same declaration give them the right to do so within their borders.

                                      --
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                                      • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:22PM

                                        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:22PM (#950278) Journal
                                        Actually, signatories are required to protect those rights as one of their obligations. Treaties give rise to both rights and obligations.
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                        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:18AM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:18AM (#949861)

                          I'm very much a pacifist, but once in 2nd grade I had a moment like this--

                          Besides, every once in a while you get a lucky hit in. The school bully had me on my back on the school playground, was beating me, and I got in a lucky punch that knocked his front tooth out. Ended being bullied for a year - well worth it.

                          In my case I gave the bully a major bloody nose with a lucky swing. By the time the master arrived, I was in tears, sorry that I hit the bully, and there was some confusion as to what had transpired!

                          That bully and I went all the way through high school together and he always left me alone. He became a really big guy, think he played tackle on the (American) football team. A few times I overheard him telling other bullies "watch out for that red head, he's got a mean hook".

                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:10AM (7 children)

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:10AM (#949933) Journal

                      The only way to deal with either a bully or a psycho is to stand up to them hard, fast, and frequently.

                      Who's the bully/psycho?

                      he same game theory that gave us MAD clearly shows this is the only way.

                      Sounds like you need different game theory then.

                      Sorry, c0lo is right here. Bullying/psychoing is behavior not a person. Second, I find it bizarre you think this works. Trump got in because he was able to take stances that got other politicians ostracized, like an anti-immigration stance. His bullying was rewarded not deterred.

                      • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:15PM (6 children)

                        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:15PM (#950061) Journal
                        And you too demonstrate your usual wilfully lacking understanding. No nuantwith you, is there. Fighting a bully doesn't make you a bully, any more than trying to stop someone from stealing your stuff makes you a thief.

                        You always have a right to stand up to aggression. And we know what history says about appeasement, and about standing by and not intervening when an aggressor attacks someone else. Think of how yesterday was the 75th anniversary of auschwitch, and how the bystander effect permits crap like that to happen, as everyone waits for someone else to intervene.

                        Bullies must be confronted, even when they're bullying someone else and not you. Just because you're a spineless coward doesn't mean everyone has to be.

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                        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @05:53PM (5 children)

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @05:53PM (#950140) Journal

                          Bullies must be confronted, even when they're bullying someone else and not you.

                          Even when they're not bullying? Polarizing doesn't just happen because someone else is doing something wrong. It happens when more of everything that is done by others is perceived in a worse light.

                          • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:36PM (4 children)

                            by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:36PM (#950161) Journal
                            If they're not bullying anyone, what's your point? It's certainly not consistency of language. "Stand up to bullies " means exactly that and nothing more. If they're not bullying, then they're not bullies. If they start bullying again, stand up against them again. Is that really too hard for you to figure out, or is your oppositional defiance disorder kicking in again?
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                            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:45PM (3 children)

                              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:45PM (#950166) Journal

                              If they're not bullying anyone, what's your point?

                              You're still standing up to them. Good behavior is treated the same as bad behavior.

                              "Stand up to bullies " means exactly that and nothing more.

                              Except, of course, when it doesn't mean exactly that.

                              • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @07:01PM (2 children)

                                by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @07:01PM (#950181) Journal
                                How is good behaviour treated the same as bad behaviour, except in your warped little mind?
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                                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @07:24PM (1 child)

                                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @07:24PM (#950192) Journal
                                  Because you made no such distinction. You have yet to speak of non-bullying behavior from Trump, the other side, etc. It's great to say that you'll reward good behavior and stand up to bad. But irrelevant if you see all behavior as wholly good or bad. That latter is part of the polarization effect. My tribe can do no wrong. Your tribe can do no right.
                                  • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @09:20PM

                                    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @09:20PM (#950240) Journal

                                    Again, that's an assumption that's entirely on you. Also, Trump has always been a bully, enabled first by his father bailing him out repeatedly (bullies don't learn that there are consequences for their actions) and then by a crooked deal with Deutch Bank backed by guarantees from Putin as well as Saudi Arabian money.

                                    You don't get to say you're not a bully if you act like a bully every day. Same as you don't get to say you're not a liar if you stop lying for 10 minutes.

                                    Trump voters are very much aware he's a bully - it's one of the things they like about him. They're living their secret power fantasies vicariously through him. They too would like to be able to buy sex without repercussions, be openly racist, openly misogynistic, lgbt-bashers - he's their wet dreams come true.

                                    Too bad about the collagen implants in his face not holding up, but they'll overlook it, same as they overlook his huge bald spot. Because he's giving voice to all their inner most deep-rooted hate. Same as Hitler did. And they both got elected ... about the only good thing to say about Hitler is that he killed Hitler. Hopefully Trump will do likewise.

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                • (Score: 5, Interesting) by slinches on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:21AM

                  by slinches (5049) on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:21AM (#949692)

                  The way I see it, Trump is a symptom of the discord as much as he is the cause of it. If we had collectively decided that decorum, respect for an opponent and rational arguments should win out over trolling and emotional ploys then he never would have been elected. So, in essence he is doing what he was elected to do, be the troll-in-chief. I was hoping it would inspire a backlash against this sort of poisonous rhetoric, but so far almost everyone has just stooped to his level. Maybe it needs to get worse before it can get better or maybe we are all doomed. Either way, Trump is just accelerating us along that path rather than putting us on it.

                  That being said, I think the problem of political division is mostly one of perception rather than people really moving that much further apart ideologically. The "ideological gap" between random individuals may not be much different than it ever was, rather it just appears much bigger. When people who already know and respect each other talk about politics in person, it's amicable and more often than not they can at least find enough common ground to understand the other's argument even when neither side "wins". Now most political discussions have moved from face to face discussions with friends to open internet forums and social media sites. There we can choose to hide opinions we aren't comfortable with by assuming nefarious motives and block them in favor of being validated by others we agree with. This is the essence of the filter bubble effect that is pushing the most extreme ideas to further extremes while silencing moderating influences. Even when those moderate opinions are dominant, they are dispersed at the edges of multiple "ideologically pure" self selecting bubbles, which makes them appear less popular. So, the ideas can spread further apart even when the people who hold them don't.

                • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:11AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:11AM (#949853)

                  In the US, the Democratic party is a center-right party made up of corporatists, and neo-liberals. The Republicans are a far-right party made up of corporatists and neo-liberals, with a significant proportion of extreme-far-right fascist members. So, there is no left / right divide. It is more a reactionary-right vs. center-right squabble.

                  Those of us actually on the left have zero representation in most states, and haven't for decades.

              • (Score: 5, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:20AM (5 children)

                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:20AM (#949809) Journal

                He may be partisan, but he's not wrong. In fact, *your response* is the epitome of the partisanship the OP is decrying, not edIII's post.

                Why? Because instead of taking what he says and comparing it to observable reality, *you* immediately clap your hands over your ears and commit the genetic fallacy ("It's partisan, so it's wrong!").

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                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:43AM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:43AM (#949881)

                  ^ the only one getting tired of winning, being correct about humanity's horrors has got to wear you out!

                  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday January 29 2020, @01:10AM

                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 29 2020, @01:10AM (#950367) Journal

                    Like you would not fucking believe. I've seen and lived through some shit that killed better people, and I know because some of those people were friends.

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                • (Score: 2) by slinches on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:55AM

                  by slinches (5049) on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:55AM (#949952)

                  I didn't make any claim of right or wrong. I said his post was vitriolic and divisive, which is orthogonal to whether I agree with the sentiment or not. If you read partisanship into saying the that the tone he used contributes to the political divides, that says more about you than it does me.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @08:00PM (1 child)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @08:00PM (#950202) Journal

                  Because instead of taking what he says and comparing it to observable reality

                  Look at what EdIII is applying criticism to. So much of it is vague out-groups: "conservatives", "greed of the rich", "others", "conservative snowflakes", "Conservatives, and especially religious conservatives", and "self-professed conservative leaders of morality". There are only two explicit targets: Trump and "Some conservative cunt". He's more on the mark with those.

                  Having said that, I still think he's much improved over a few years back and there's way too many people generalizing in this discussion for me to single him out.

                  and commit the genetic fallacy ("It's partisan, so it's wrong!").

                  Well, that's what the story is about. Some degree of wrongness is baked in when you generalize, right?

                  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday January 29 2020, @01:09AM

                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 29 2020, @01:09AM (#950366) Journal

                    Oh bitch bitch bitch. When the generalities are that close to correct, I personally will forgive a little sloppiness on that measure. "Some degree of wrongness," sure, but not a hell of a lot.

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        • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday January 27 2020, @09:05PM (2 children)

          by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Monday January 27 2020, @09:05PM (#949567)

          "Nazi" is a epithet made up by Jews. There is no such group.

          Fuck that race traitor.

          Make your mind up.

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:45PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:45PM (#950290)

            Do you not understand what i was saying, or are you just spewing the same regurgitated lies like religious dogma? I didn't say i wasn't a racialist, or protective over my race's right to exist. I was pointing out that "Nazi" is a slur that means "hillbilly" or "bumkin", "rube", and that not all White Nationalists (or so-called conservatives) are National Socialists and to call everyone "Nazis" is just Jew/Khazar propaganda. There was no such thing as Nazi Germany, That in itself is propaganda. There was Germany under NSDAP rule. It's pitiful that the same people who are so worried about evil "Nazis" gaining a foothold, are simultaneously implementing National Socialist and other authoritarian policies and laws, and want to throw everyone in jail, or Jew-ordered Aryan forced labor/death camps like in soviet Russia, if they don't do what they're told.

            I should state that i don't hate all members of any other race/tribe, including Jews. I think they should have their own country if they can keep it. Regular Jews, while taught from birth that the barbarians are all out to get them for no reason, are ignorant of what their top 1-2% do, just like Aryans fund their governments' foreign wars and self-harming domestic policies, many times paying for and/or blindly volunteering to kill their racial cousins oversees based on lies and justified with PsyOps like Buchenwald. Here's some typical Jew propaganda about Buchenwald: https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/The-liberation-of-Buchenwald-The-first-glimpse-of-a-concentration-camp-574955. [jpost.com]

            That being said, the International Jew at the top of the pyramid, has made slave states of many nations and is involved in White Genocide, using various means, including Replacement Immigration. This is just a continuation of ancient wars between the tribes and races and the Aryans are actually being exterminated, like the Jews lied about being done to them.

            Some documentaries to watch, of varying quality, but each with interesting claims to research. This info is why the International Jew-dominated US congress is so interested in regulating Internet companies now. If people learn that they have been lied to about WWI, WWII and everything about their governments and financial systems, the slaves might revolt, and these international criminal parasites can't have that.
            -------------------------------------------
            Adolf Hitler: The Greatest Story Never Told
            Adolf Hitler: A Last Appeal to Reason
            Hellstorm: The Real Genocide of Nazi Germany
            Europa: The Last Battle (some overlap with Adolf Hitler: The Greatest Story Never Told)
            The Criminal Jews from Israel who Control Ukraine - Holodomor 2.0 Documentary
            We Need To Talk About The Jews
            Farmlands, and to a lesser extent Borderless, by Laura Southern
             

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @11:26PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @11:26PM (#950314)

              You need to drop the period on the end of that link for it to work.

      • (Score: 2) by EJ on Monday January 27 2020, @08:32PM (1 child)

        by EJ (2452) on Monday January 27 2020, @08:32PM (#949544)

        Where do you think they get their material? Who do you think pushes this garbage to them?

        I don't know why you brought partisan nonsense into this, but Republicans go to the Poison Ivy League schools too.

        It's just like the bullshit "reality" TV and social media that gets shoveled at people. They manufacture controversy to grab people's attention.

        This isn't some global warming or anti-vaccine conspiracy. I'm talking about the people who literally make up bullshit to get people stirred up so they buy into XYZ brand of bullshit instead of ABC brand.

        Politics takes its cues from Marketing 101.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 27 2020, @10:01PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 27 2020, @10:01PM (#949603)

          If it bleeds, it leads. And if it isn't bleeding, stab and pick at the open wound until it does.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by istartedi on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:18AM (4 children)

      by istartedi (123) on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:18AM (#949689) Journal

      I'm not sure why parent is currently modded "Troll". One of the things I found most disgusting about the 2004 presidential election was that *both* candidates were Skull and Bones men. I was going around saying, "What's it going to be? Our Skull and Bones man or theirs?". I don't think the Founding Fathers envisioned a process where people are groomed for high office from the time they're born. That's royalty. It's what they rebelled against.

      • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @01:41AM (3 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @01:41AM (#949731) Journal

        I'm not sure why parent is currently modded "Troll"...
        That's royalty. It's what they rebelled against.

        Let me try to explain.

        Because royalty is not inherently bad just as a presidential republic is not inherently good.
        Let me exemplify: Norway/Japan/etc. are not less democratic even if they are monarchies; just the same, graduating "XYZ University" isn't inherently bad.

        Letting aside the confusion (or intention to confuse?), the (G)P is dangerously close of saying "Graduate whatever University and you are automatically Poisson Ivy and an enemy of the people"

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        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:33AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:33AM (#949818)

          Skull and Bones didn't mean graduating from an Ivy league school. It is a very exclusionary club made up of the hereditarily rich and powerful, that operates within the Ivy league. You can't get into it just by applying, or being smart, or rich. You have to be part of the 'right' people.

          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:49AM (1 child)

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:49AM (#949828) Journal

            Skull and Bones didn't mean graduating from an Ivy league school. It is a very exclusionary club made up of the hereditarily rich and powerful, that operates within the Ivy league.

            With thanks for the "translation", I don't see any reference to "Skull and Bones" in the comment that was moderated as Troll, just a blanket "The world is better without the graduates of Brown, Stanford or a XYZ University".

            --
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            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:20AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:20AM (#949936)

              That was so far up the page I missed it. Was referring to istartedi reply where he objects to both candidates being S&B. I thought you were objecting to him comparing S&B to royalty.

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