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posted by martyb on Friday January 31 2020, @11:00PM   Printer-friendly
from the Brexit-Means-Brexit dept.

UK set for Brexit, as PM promises 'new dawn'

The UK [officially left] the European Union at 23:00 GMT, ending 47 years of membership.

[...] Pro and anti-Brexit demonstrations and marches are being held across the country, as the UK flag is taken down from EU institutions in Brussels.

Little will change immediately, as the UK begins a "transition period".

Most EU laws will continue to be in force - including the free movement of people - until the end of December, by which time the UK aims to have reached a permanent free trade agreement with the EU.

[...] The prime minister held a cabinet meeting at the National Glass Centre, a museum and arts centre in Sunderland, the city that was the first to back Brexit when results were announced after the referendum.

The meeting was held amid tight security.

[...] Mr Johnson told the Cabinet it was time to start a "new chapter in the United Kingdom's story" and end the division of the past three and a half years, according to a Downing Street spokesman.

The Cabinet discussed future trade deals, including seeking a a Canada-style free trade agreement with the EU, and Mr Johnson thanked Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay for the work of his department, which is being wound up.

The PM told ministers the government aimed to have 80% of the UK's trade with other nations covered by free trade agreements within three years.

[...] "This is the moment when the dawn breaks and the curtain goes up on a new act. It is a moment of real national renewal and change."

[...] A new commemorative 50p coin will also come into circulation to mark the UK's withdrawal.


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 31 2020, @11:27PM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 31 2020, @11:27PM (#952047)

    All this Brexit kerfuffle interrupted her time to play with the corgis.

    • (Score: 5, Touché) by ikanreed on Saturday February 01 2020, @01:16AM (8 children)

      by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 01 2020, @01:16AM (#952103) Journal

      Things that don't bother the queen:
      *Brexit
      *Her pedo son
      *The legality of actions taken by prime ministers

      Things that do bother the queen:
      *A princling stepping down from the royal family in a way that gives even the slightest hint that royalty isn't an innate feature of the universe

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by MostCynical on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:02AM (3 children)

        by MostCynical (2589) on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:02AM (#952147) Journal

        Wanting and abusing power is fine. (Phillip, Andrew, Charles, etc..)
        After all, they have a God-given right to rule.

        not wanting power confuses and confounds. (Harry)

        Also, I like to imagine this conversation:
        "Look, here's the DNA test results. You're not my grandmother, I'm not fifth in line to the throne, so I'm taking my wife and leaving"

        --
        "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:16AM (2 children)

          by Grishnakh (2831) on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:16AM (#952179)

          The problem with all of this is that Harry isn't just taking his wife and leaving, he's taking a bunch of money. He has a lot of wealth and privilege because of his royal status, and of course they aren't giving that all up to live as regular people. It's kinda like Superman in Superman II: he couldn't live like a human and marry Lois without giving up his powers. Harry and his wife seem to want to keep the money and privilege, but not the responsibilities that come with royalty.

          • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:47PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:47PM (#952358)

            Wait... are you telling me they didn't earn all those medals and awards the hard way?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @03:55AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @03:55AM (#952629)

            Meghan got her trophy husband and now can go back to acting. With her increased profile, anything house husband Harry supposedly owes the Commonwealth taxpayer is equivalent to the paycheck of her next movie.

            Tl;dr who cares?

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:16AM

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:16AM (#952154) Journal

        British royalty is a perfectly cromulent tourist attraction. Can you imagine if Mickey and Minnie left Disneyland for Knott's Berry Farm?

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @11:49AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @11:49AM (#952297)

        The little ginger Nazi "grandson" that probably isn't even her biological grandson is more important then most things or not. I guess she knows not to touch the whole Diana-issue so they all just keep pretending that Harry comes from Charles.

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by theluggage on Saturday February 01 2020, @11:55AM (1 child)

        by theluggage (1797) on Saturday February 01 2020, @11:55AM (#952299)

        *Brexit

        *The legality of actions taken by prime ministers

        To be fair, the constitution prohibits her from being bothered by those things. TL:DNR: The UK monarch is allowed to stay on the throne on the strict condition that they don't try to rule and just slap the Royal seal wherever the elected PM tells them to.

        Personally, I'd tell the lot of them to become self-funding - if they're such a boon to tourism maybe they should seek direct sponsorship from the tourist industry. Private sector royalty (e.g. the house of Kardashian, Queen Oprah and the First Lords of The Major League) seems to work well in the USA (although they haven't got the message about banning them from government).

        Still, I'm not sure it's a priority, and the royals probably do more good work that the typical idle rich. Even comrade Corbyn didn't include abolishing the monarchy on the second longest suicide note in history.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:51PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:51PM (#952360)

          The parts that are "self-funding" are the parts they keep for themselves - rents, land ownership. Don't you know Prince Charles earned $40m-odd this year? What a busy beaver! The rest is what we the people get to keep - maintaining the palace(s), grounds(s), yacht(s), hosting banquet(s).

  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 31 2020, @11:44PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 31 2020, @11:44PM (#952058)

    A new commemorative 50p coin will also come into circulation to mark the UK's withdrawal.

    Please grab some of these uncirculated so I can put them in my Brexit museum.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 31 2020, @11:45PM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 31 2020, @11:45PM (#952061)

    No more polish plumbers? Would it stop the mussies?

    On the bright side, London Stock Exchange will die off soon. Frankfurties must be dancing in joy.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:53AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:53AM (#952094)

      London Stock Exchange will die off soon.

      Why is that exactly? You're aware they were never on the Euro anyway, right?

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @02:53AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @02:53AM (#952140)

        Frankfurt Stock Exchange becomes biggest in EU because London is out. Different path to similar result: controlling EU important exchanges. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_17_789 [europa.eu]

        Also the two EU offices that were based in UK are being relocated to other EU countries, France and NL. Paris and Amsterdam will be happy to get some jobs, as well as extra use of hotels for anyone requiring to visit the offices. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/relocation-london-agencies-brexit/ [europa.eu]

        Just like Tesla picked Berlin, all this also applies to private business. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-gigafactory-germany-britain/brexit-drove-tesla-to-pick-berlin-over-britain-for-new-factory-report-idUSKBN1XN1HW [reuters.com] Probably any other multinational that operates in EU and wants to cut down workforce globaly will cut a nice portion, or even all, in UK branch.

        If EU gets serious about UK trying to become (more than already) tax haven, it could mean a nasty position. USA is already looking for a part of the British pie, like a "nice deal" with medicines (nice for USA, not UK), bully style. Go figure, maybe Russia, China and others will also try some low punches now that British are just 370M (>440M with UK). Scottland is trying to abandon the United ship (>5M), and we will see how the final deal affects North Ireland (2M).

        • (Score: 2, Funny) by khallow on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:50PM (3 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:50PM (#952309) Journal
          Sounds like you're trying to brag for some reason. But EU gets a monopoly on stocks and two bureaucracies. That's a pretty poor showing. Might be something to companies preferentially cutting workforce in UK.

          If EU gets serious about UK trying to become (more than already) tax haven, it could mean a nasty position. USA is already looking for a part of the British pie, like a "nice deal" with medicines (nice for USA, not UK), bully style. Go figure, maybe Russia, China and others will also try some low punches now that British are just 370M (>440M with UK). Scottland is trying to abandon the United ship (>5M), and we will see how the final deal affects North Ireland (2M).

          I count four different outside parties. It's trivial to play these off against one another.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:55PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:55PM (#952362)

            Trivial, not even.

            Liam Fox: EU trade deal after Brexit should be 'easiest in history' to get

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 01 2020, @06:24PM (1 child)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 01 2020, @06:24PM (#952420) Journal
              The UK has three other world powers to horse trade with, if the EU gets pouty.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @08:55PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @08:55PM (#952493)

                Saddle up time.

  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:05AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:05AM (#952064)

    I can see letting people out, but why let anymore in? All those phony "refugees" going to keep coming in until December? That sucks! Well, I hope Johnson can keep them from getting papers until then, and then he can boot them out. Let's make Britain Great again! A Britain for, by, and of the British!

    God save the Queen, and her fascist regime!

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:48AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:48AM (#952280)

      A Britain for, by, and of the British!

      Britain for the Britons!
      Anglos out!
      Saxons out!
      Britain for the Britons!

  • (Score: -1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:07AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:07AM (#952065)

    Russians have also blocked witnesses in Trump's impeachment. He will go free with zero witnesses giving evidence that he withheld aid from Ukraine unless they fired the prosecutor investigating the company paying his son $80k per month!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 04 2020, @02:21AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 04 2020, @02:21AM (#953377)

      What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with anything here.

  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:50AM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:50AM (#952091)

    Wish I cared. Should I?

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday February 01 2020, @01:04AM (7 children)

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday February 01 2020, @01:04AM (#952097) Homepage

      I do care. They are our Brothers-in-arms and although they will stay friendly with us for the foreseeable future, I'm not liking the degree to which foreigners like scumbag Pakis like Khan have infiltrated their society. Also, I found out that Boris Johnson is a Jew, which makes me wonder exactly who their new champion is really fighting for. Trump is at least doing a decent job at trying to curtail the hordes of orcs pouring in.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @01:13AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @01:13AM (#952101)

        Not sure how you can have some problem with Jews but be pro-Trump?

        Israel: Trump "the greatest friend" Israel ever had - Netanyahu
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGu2BzTXoVg [youtube.com]

        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @08:14AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @08:14AM (#952263)

          This sort of comment, or thought process, is precisely why we get sociopathic liars for political representatives. You don't have to like every single position of somebody to think they can be an acceptable representative. Because when you set that as a criteria you're basically going to get nothing but people who will lie to you to convince that they do.

          This is why parties are doubly idiotic. They give the liars a specific set of lies to stick to. Democrats are getting especially bad on this front as the party becomes more insular and homogeneous. So e.g. not a single democrat that believes we are going a bit overboard on regulations and bureaucrazy. Not a one... Yeah

          • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:39PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:39PM (#952508)

            "Democrats are getting especially bad on this front as the party becomes more insular and homogeneous."

            ???? There are many things I could accuse the Democrats of being but insular or homogeneous are not among them.

      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @01:21AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @01:21AM (#952107)

        Pipe down, cholo.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @08:34PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @08:34PM (#952478)

        i was originally in favor of brexit (from afar) so the brits would not be slaves to the EU, but now i wonder if this is just a run up to another jew slaughter of millions of Europeans in another world war. i'm also not overly optimistic the brits will be able to reclaim the UK from the invading hordes of musrats and Sub-Saharan Africans and the treasonous politicians that brought them in.

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:33PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:33PM (#952507)

        "Trump is at least doing a decent job at trying to curtail the hordes of orcs pouring in."

        He isn't doing that good a job of it if you're still here.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @10:59PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @10:59PM (#952540)

          "Some of these orcs are very good people."

          Racists for 2020! Who keeds democracy when you just cheat, lie, and steal your way in?

          Republicans are so fucking dumb destroying everything they believe in (supposedly) just to win a goddamn pony show.

  • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:01AM

    by RamiK (1813) on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:01AM (#952146)

    More like the first chapter to a poorly written prequel to a V for Vendetta knockoff; Coronavirus and xenophobia included.

    --
    compiling...
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:05AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:05AM (#952149)

    After the death of Boadicea, and the later invasions by the Angles, and the Danes, and Normans, no one has successfully invaded the British Isles. Spanish Armada? Fail. Did get the Dark Irish out of the deal. The Blitz, yeah, right, until Normandy (pay back for William). So once by sea, once by air, I predict the next one will be by land, specifically, invasion by Chunnel. One might think it would be a single point of failure, easy to shutdown, but that is just the problem, you would have to shut it down. Fortunately, the IMPOTUS of the United States has announced that war crimes involving land mines and blowing the legs off of children is now kosher. So, yeah, Brexit is gonna end well, with the French Conquest of England, finally. Once again, Monty Python is prophetic.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by Arik on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:53AM

      by Arik (4543) on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:53AM (#952165) Journal
      How could you forget William the Bastard?
      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:55AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:55AM (#952281)

      I missed it. When did Barack "opposed an international ban on cluster munitions" Obama get involved?

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by pTamok on Saturday February 01 2020, @10:22AM

      by pTamok (3042) on Saturday February 01 2020, @10:22AM (#952287)

      After the death of Boadicea, and the later invasions by the Angles, and the Danes, and Normans, no one has successfully invaded the British Isles. Spanish Armada? Fail. Did get the Dark Irish out of the deal. The Blitz, yeah, right, until Normandy (pay back for William). So once by sea, once by air, I predict the next one will be by land, specifically, invasion by Chunnel. One might think it would be a single point of failure, easy to shutdown, but that is just the problem, you would have to shut it down. Fortunately, the IMPOTUS of the United States has announced that war crimes involving land mines and blowing the legs off of children is now kosher. So, yeah, Brexit is gonna end well, with the French Conquest of England, finally. Once again, Monty Python is prophetic.

      There have been plenty of invasions of England since 1066 [wikipedia.org], only one of which was successful in that it triggered a change of power in England. You haven't heard of it because history was written by the victors and it is portrayed as a 'Glorious Revolution' [wikipedia.org], in much the same style as Chinese propaganda portraying successful takeovers of bordering countries as 'unifications' if the Central Kingdom.

      As Wikipedia describes the 'Glorious Revolution':

      The Glorious Revolution, or Revolution of 1688 (Irish: An Réabhlóid Ghlórmhar, Scottish Gaelic: Rèabhlaid Ghlòrmhor or Welsh: Chwyldro Gogoneddus), was the November 1688 deposition and subsequent replacement of James II and VII as ruler of England, Scotland and Ireland by his daughter Mary II and his Dutch nephew and Mary's husband, William III of Orange.
      ...

      With political support from allies in England, Scotland and Europe, a fleet of 463 ships landed William and 14,000 men in Torbay on 5 November. As he advanced on London, desertions reduced the 30,000 strong Royal Army to 4,000; James ordered these remnants disbanded and went into exile in December.[5] A Convention Parliament met in April 1689, making William and Mary joint monarchs of England; a separate but similar Scottish settlement was made in June.

      So, it was the successful replacement of a Catholic king with a Protestant monarch, which still has political consequences now. The invasion was so successful, it was basically unopposed.

  • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:53AM (36 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:53AM (#952163)

    Some people make it sound like democratic self-determination is a terrible thing.
    Why did Britain fight a war against Germany 60 odd years ago? Surely it would have more economically efficient to have just joined the Krauts...

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:55AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:55AM (#952166)

      Sorry -- almost 80 years ago.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:57AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:57AM (#952167)

      Sorry-- about 80 years ago.
      x
      x
      x

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:28AM (32 children)

      by Grishnakh (2831) on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:28AM (#952190)

      No one said self-determination is a terrible thing.

      But having the power of self-determination doesn't mean people can't criticize you for making utterly stupid decisions when you exercise that power.

      Basically, the UK deciding to leave the EU is a lot like New York (state--the whole state) deciding it wants to leave the US. Sure, it's a major part of the US, and has a lot of population (20M?), and at one time it was the top dog, but those days are past. NYC is horribly overpriced and has major infrastructure problems, and the rest of the state has a dwindling population (Buffalo for instance has a much smaller than in the past; it started falling in the 1960s and is now less than half its peak in 1950) and moribund economy. NY would be stupid to try to exist as an independent nation at this point. The fact that you can't get between New England and the rest of the country is also a huge complication (which is somewhat analogous to the Irish situation with the UK).

      And speaking of Ireland, what exactly are they going to do there? It looks like they're talking about having a customs border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK now, just to avoid having Troubles 2.0! Because putting a customs border between NI and Ireland would be a disaster, after all the violence they went through. They'd probably be better off just forcing Northern Ireland out of the UK and getting them to reunify with Ireland.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:32AM (5 children)

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:32AM (#952192)

        I forgot to mention: on top of all this, now Scotland is pissed (because they voted to Remain), after this coming right after their close vote against independence, so now they're probably going to want to re-vote on that, and this time they may very well become independent from England/Wales, leaving the UK in an even worse economic state.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @05:07AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @05:07AM (#952214)

          Meh, the city (of london) has enough money to buy the energy from the windfarms in scotland.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:06AM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:06AM (#952270)

          Ah but now you perhaps can see why UK left? Scotland did indeed vote to remain, but their vote means nothing - because they were overruled by the bigger players to whom they surrendered their sovereignty to.

          But I think you're rather mistaken on the economy of Scotland (and the UK for that matter). The UK spends more money on public services than the entirety of money it gets back in tax from Scotland. They of course gain many things in return though. Scotland is currently dirt poor and that may change in the future, meaning they could eventually become 'profitable.' And there are also obvious strategic motivations in assimilating all land on your 'island.' But should Scotland declare their independence, and actually manage to make it happen (which as Brexit showed are two rather different things), it would likely be a boost to Britain's economy.

          As for the UK's economy, they're currently doing literally better than ever.

          • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:05PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:05PM (#952302)

            As for the UK's economy, they're currently doing literally better than ever.

            By what metric? Because it's not true GDP-wise [countryeconomy.com]. The UK's per-capita GDP is currently at the same level as it was in 2005, and the years leading up to 2008 (banking crisis) and leading up to 2015 (brexit vote) saw a higher GDP than now.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:48PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:48PM (#952308)

              Fair point. I was considering the stock market which is at record highs. Somewhat peculiar that the GDP at market are out of sync. Curious what's up there since they tend to, at least broadly, follow one another.

              • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Lester on Saturday February 01 2020, @02:47PM

                by Lester (6231) on Saturday February 01 2020, @02:47PM (#952331) Journal

                Once I read a metaphor about the relation between economy and stock market.
                Economy is a man walking a dog without a lease, and the stock market is the dog. The dog may stop, run 100m up or down, left and right. In the long term the dog moves with the man, but watching the dog for a minute doesn't help to know where the man is going to.

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Saturday February 01 2020, @05:10AM (1 child)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Saturday February 01 2020, @05:10AM (#952216) Journal

        NYC is horribly overpriced and has major infrastructure problems

        What major infrastructure problems does NYC have? They just replaced the Tappanzee bridge with a brand-spanking new one, and also the Kosciusko Bridge connecting Brooklyn and Queens. They opened the first section of the Second Avenue subway. They're about to finish the New York City Water Tunnel No. 3 [wikipedia.org], its biggest capital project ever. Now that they have those nifty rapid asphalt resurfacing machines the Long Island Expressway is actually driveable. Bloomberg also put in a bunch of protected bike lanes.

        The NYC infrastructure is actually going gangbusters right now.

        As to New York State becoming an independent country, you're right that would never happen, but not because it couldn't do it. Third-tier cities upstate have more energy and dynamism than Canada's capital region in Ottawa. New York State has more going on than the entire country of Canada. Don't get me wrong, I love Canada and Canadians but man is that plenty wasted on them.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday February 02 2020, @11:42PM

          by Grishnakh (2831) on Sunday February 02 2020, @11:42PM (#952926)

          Tappanzee isn't actually in NYC, but I guess you can count it as it's in the metro area.

          Anyway, within the city, the subway is decrepit and hasn't had any major new construction in decades. Bridges aren't much use for a city where so many people don't have cars. And construction costs in NYC are 4 times as much as other major cities, mainly because the unions have way too much power and they have far too many people employed for any given project (most of them doing little to nothing). It's far cheaper to build tunnels and subways in western Europe or Japan than in NYC.

      • (Score: 2, Disagree) by Username on Saturday February 01 2020, @07:56AM (2 children)

        by Username (4557) on Saturday February 01 2020, @07:56AM (#952261)

        New York was never an independent country, it was always apart of the United States, and the United States is a sovereign country unlike the EU. Brexit is more like the US leaving NATO.

        • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @10:00AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @10:00AM (#952283)

          All thirteen colonies were "states" -- in normal parlance this means "country".

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:21PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:21PM (#952344)

            Not really. They were entities created by Royal Charter to be run by people appointed by the Crown. They were in no way "independent states" before independence. What their status AFTER the 13 American colonies won their independence from Britain would be was not established yet. They saw themselves in general as separate entities because they each had their own government which previously had reported to the Crown. It is true that after independence the states wanted to retain a high degree of autonomy while joining a confederation. Recall that BEFORE independence they were all part of the British empire. They were never separate countries.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @08:41AM (11 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @08:41AM (#952266)

        The UK was happy to remain a part of the EU when the EU was little more than a collection of equals engaging in mutually beneficial trade, friendship, and cooperation while also overcoming the bureaucratic hurdles that are inevitable in any relationship kept at arm's reach. But the modern EU has become something very different. You now have unaccountable politicians in the European Commission engaging in behavior that is increasingly out of touch with many of the views and values of various member states that is increasingly treating not as peers, or even as constituents - but as vassals. They not not only have formed the EU Commission but also the EU Courts and are now on about aiming to create the EU Military.

        This is not like New York leaving. This is much more like the American Revolution, fortunately sans a single life lost. The reason America left was because we felt that Britain had become arrogant and out of touch with our interests. Remember? No Taxation Without Representation. Britain of course knew this, yet it didn't bother them and they continued to take America for granted and treat it as little more than a vassal. So we left. I expect over the coming years the EU as a whole is going to collapse. They offer relatively little and ask a tremendous amount of "their" nations. And when nations disagree? Too bad. Cooperation need not entail servitude to a collective. The entire notion is absurd. We are stronger when we work together, but we are weaker when we create systems where we begin to impose our will upon one another. The EU begin as the former, and has become the latter.

        Oh, and by the way - the London Stock Exchange is skyrocketing [lse.co.uk] now that Britain has regained its independence, as anybody who can see lies for what they are should have expected. Organizations such as the EU do not strengthen their member states. They exploit the member states to strengthen the EU, which then uses that newfound strength to further impose its will upon its vassals.

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by pTamok on Saturday February 01 2020, @11:20AM (8 children)

          by pTamok (3042) on Saturday February 01 2020, @11:20AM (#952292)

          I see your point of view, and understand the basis of your arguments.

          There are arguments to be had of the level of accountability within the EU bureaucracy, but the plain fact is that the EU budget is roughly 148 x 109 Euro, whereas the total budgets of the member states is 7.52 x 1012 Euro - so the EU budget is about 1.97% of the total. People are fighting about accounting rounding errors.

          In return for that, as you point out, the members get vastly more efficient trade relationships, both within the EU, and with non-member states where they can negotiate better deals as a bloc. The gain in trade efficiency could well be greater than the EU budget contributions from each member. The UK has decided to give up that advantage, which is fine, and a very interesting experiment for economists to watch to see if their theories on trade bear up. Note that Norway pays a great deal to be part of the EU free trade area, but has very little influence in EU policy: the Norwegians are allowed to participate as observers in various working groups, but have no voting rights - even so, its a good deal. The UK may decide to take a similar route - at which point the UK has fought for the right to voluntarily follow rules over which they have (almost) no influence. It reminds me of the dialogue from The Inalienable Rights in the Life of Brian scene, with Stan (Idle), Reg (Cleese) and Judith (Jones-Davies) [wikipedia.org]. The UK wants the right to independently follow the EU rules and regulations...

          Joking aside, the usual way to change an organisation, barring revolution, is from within, by sensible argument, persuasion and other democratic means. Stalking off and saying 'Well, I'll go and play on my own then' is not really the best strategy. Of course, I could easily be wrong, and this is a wonderful decision. For various personal reasons, it would be likely be beneficial to me if I am wrong. It will be interesting to see how it plays out, and I hope that no-one is significantly negatively affected by this, especially the most vulnerable in society.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @01:41PM (7 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @01:41PM (#952319)

            From my perspective it's not primarily about the money, but about the sovereignty. The EU has become an incredibly political and partisan entity with a very distinct bias. That is what I think makes this issue so decisive. Those that tend to agree with their newfound bias either turn a blind eye to the imposition of their will, or do not even really consider what such imposition would be like if you did not share the EU's biases.

            However, I would also be opposed to the EU even if they were imposing *my* biases upon people who do not necessarily agree with them. The reason is pretty simple. In my opinion a multi-polar world is going to provide the best outcomes. The reason for this is easy to consider. Imagine a globalist world achieved it's ultimate end game - a single world government with extensive top-down power. What happens when this government becomes corrupted? Quite a disconcerting thought, even more so when you consider that history has shown that such corruption is not a question of *if*, but *when*.

            A global world can achieve unimaginable success when we are doing the right things. Yet when we start doing the wrong things we experience a comparably unimaginable failure. A multipolar world nominally works as just something in between the two extremes, but I think it's even better. What happens when one system is showing success? Free people, those capable of making their own decisions, tend to *voluntarily* adopt it. However that voluntary aspect also means that should such adopted systems start to falter, or perhaps other new systems seem intriguing, nations are free to try these new ideas -- you help reduce the power of inertia.

            For instance even in the United States today. If you explain the pros/cons of a proportional vs an at-large first-past-the-post voting system, I suspect something getting real close to 100% of people would support the proportional system. Yet it's very difficult to adopt that change, which would likely have a significantly positive impact on our political system, because of a mixture of inertia and the fact that our nation, though ostensibly democratic, is in reality controlled by a relatively small number of people who have the resources and competence that it takes to game electoral systems. It's certainly not like Hillary and Trump were anywhere near the short list of the most desirable presidents in this nation, if our electoral systems were at all driven by merit.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:23PM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:23PM (#952381)

              This is the usual waffle about "sovereignty" and "vassal states".

              What specifically are you talking about? The emperor's new clothes are going to be painfully visible to everyone now.

              • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @05:10PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @05:10PM (#952395)

                It's simple. People should rule themselves. This would imply no government, but that of course does not work. In reality there are plenty who seek power over others and will happily hurt others to get ahead. The strongest of these sorts would eventually claim power and would become the defacto government. So there is the reluctant necessity of a government, but this government should be as close to the people it rules as possible. That is both figurative and literal, as the two tend to be directly related in this case. The EU in times past did not matter. It was little more than a more formal agreement of cooperation. In modern times the EU is not only becoming an extremely active political body but overtly aiming to become its own super-country with nations as its states. I believe Britain should be ruled by Britons, not subject to whatever happens to the be politically en vogue among a collective of other nations.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @08:59PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @08:59PM (#952494)

                  Specifically what were your problems with the EU rules that will be fixed now that you will be ruled by Eton/Oxford heirs and landowners?

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @10:55PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @10:55PM (#952908)

                    The EU copyright directive
                    A stop on the literally ceaseless migration of "refugees"
                    EU leadership that is completely unaccountable to the British people
                    Return of UK fishing rights to the UK
                    Taxes to pay for the needless EU army
                    Candle wicks are no longer EU mandated to have a minimum length

            • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:48PM

              by Phoenix666 (552) on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:48PM (#952511) Journal

              Trump won the Republican nomination and election despite the uniform opposition of the Establishment. He has since survived multiple attempts by that same Establishment to remove him from office. He is an attempt by a portion of the electorate to depose the corrupt system. The jury is still out on whether that is what he will actually do, but the verdict is certainly in now on whether the keepers of the status quo want him in office.

              Britons underscored their determination for Brexit in the last elections. Labor got shellacked. There can be no doubt now that the British people meant what they said the first time.

              We'll see if the American electorate re-affirm their earlier choices also.

              --
              Washington DC delenda est.
            • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday February 02 2020, @11:49PM (1 child)

              by Grishnakh (2831) on Sunday February 02 2020, @11:49PM (#952932)

              For instance even in the United States today. If you explain the pros/cons of a proportional vs an at-large first-past-the-post voting system, I suspect something getting real close to 100% of people would support the proportional system.

              Oh bullshit. You could explain proportional representation to average Americans until you're blue in the face and they just wouldn't understand it. They simply cannot comprehend something like that because they've never seen it before and seriously cannot imagine a political and electoral system different from we already have. The fact that a bunch of other countries already have this system is irrelevant: to average Americans, anything outside their borders might as well not exist.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 03 2020, @04:30AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 03 2020, @04:30AM (#953016)

                There's been an interesting, but rather unsurprising, 'discovery' in America. The more extreme somebody's political orientation, the less capable they are of measuring reality and especially the aggregate views of others. It's a remarkably huge effect as well. There's a V-shaped perception gap. Those who are on either end of the political horseshoe have a perception gap upwards of 30 points! What that means is that you may expect e.g. 70% of people hold view 'y', yet it's probably more like 40%. This was initially 'discovered' in a social sciences paper which has in turn spurred on the Perception Gap Project [perceptiongap.us]. If you'd prefer an echo chamber source, even the WaPo has covered this [washingtonpost.com]

                The more time somebody spends consuming media, the radically less accurate their perception of others becomes. On the left this includes sites such as Slate, Buzzfeed, WaPo, and the New York Times. I'm not sure you realize it or not but you're indeed pretty far down on our political horse-shoe. I'd really encourage you to actually try to engage with more people you think you might ideologically disagree with. You might be quite surprised to learn that people aren't quite the same as the click-baiting yellow media tends to suggest.

                People, in general, are pretty rational especially once you split them off from their tribe. It's the same reason I'm happy to chat with you even though I doubt we could be much more different in terms of ideology.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @07:46PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @07:46PM (#952449)

          Oh, and by the way - the London Stock Exchange is skyrocketing [lse.co.uk] now that Britain has regained its independence

          If you're talking about the FTSE, most of the rises are because Brexit trashed the value of the Pound. Simple inflation means a share price goes up when its true value stays the same. The weaker Pound does help exports be cheaper but then imports are more expensive. The market gains are also down to the near zero interest rates. Any actual benefits or harms of Brexit won't start to kick in until the end of the transition period and may take years to fully take root.

          Also, if you count Friday as the day it gained its independence, the FTSE 100 actually fell on that day!

        • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday February 02 2020, @11:45PM

          by Grishnakh (2831) on Sunday February 02 2020, @11:45PM (#952928)

          The reason America left was because we felt that Britain had become arrogant and out of touch with our interests. Remember? No Taxation Without Representation.

          Taxation without representation is a core value of America, so it's entirely hypocritical for America to complain about it. Just ask anyone who lives in Washington DC.

      • (Score: 1) by pTamok on Saturday February 01 2020, @11:32AM (4 children)

        by pTamok (3042) on Saturday February 01 2020, @11:32AM (#952293)

        No one said self-determination is a terrible thing.

        But having the power of self-determination doesn't mean people can't criticize you for making utterly stupid decisions when you exercise that power.

        And speaking of Ireland, what exactly are they going to do there? It looks like they're talking about having a customs border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK now, just to avoid having Troubles 2.0! Because putting a customs border between NI and Ireland would be a disaster, after all the violence they went through. They'd probably be better off just forcing Northern Ireland out of the UK and getting them to reunify with Ireland.

        Umm, there's a majority in Northern Ireland that wish to remain in the Union with Great Britain. And while in principle the Republic of Ireland want a united Ireland (it is part of the Irish Constitution), in practice, it would be a significant drain on the Irish economy to continue with the level of support that Northern Ireland gets from other British taxpayers. On a point of principle, the Irish might be happy pour money into Northern Ireland, much like the Germans did, and continue to do, into what was East Germany, but it wouldn't necessarily be popular.

        One of the benefits of EU membership was pretty much removing visible signs of a border between the two states in Ireland, helping to reduce tensions. Putting a 'virtual border' in the Irish Sea is going to cause a lot of difficulties.

        • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:26PM (2 children)

          by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:26PM (#952348) Journal

          Putting a customs border in the Irish Sea is, indeed, going to cause a lot of problems. But they aren't the *same* problems that a land border would cause, and they are arguably much less.

          I think the whole thing is a really stupid decision, it was justified based on a pack of lies, and it has continued to be justified by lies. But we'll see if I'm wrong. Unless there was massive voting fraud (electing the Tories) people really *did* vote for the backers of this idiocy, though the alternative parties weren't much better. My suspicion is that they push behind this action is largely to continue the current money laundering, but if the EU enforces it's rules internally, this may not work. Though this may be why there is such interest in a set of treaties with the US. Perhaps the goal is to turn Britain into Cayman Islands Mark II.

          --
          Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:28PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:28PM (#952383)

            No, the goal was to "win". Probably some hypothetical Oxford Union debate between the land-owning aristrocrats heirs. Turns out Britain wanted to leave, toodley-pip - you win Randolph, there's your $1.

          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 03 2020, @04:43AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 03 2020, @04:43AM (#953018)

            Would you, assuming you are American, prefer to be ruled by American politicians or by a vote of a bloc of other countries? Try, if you can, to set ideology aside when answering this. What I mean there is that it's easy to ignore the EU's behaviors in recent times if you happen to agree with their biases. So imagine if you happen to support more open migration in nations that the EU was proposing sharp restrictions on such. This isn't even that difficult to imagine. For instance Sweden was once probably the most far left democracy in terms of social values. Increasing diversity however has had an interesting reaction. The Sweden Democrats [wikipedia.org] are now likely the largest party in the country. I say 'likely' only because we're relying on polls - the next general election isn't until 2022. Wiki gonna wiki but it's description of them as The "right-wing populist[2][16] or far-right,[10][17] national-conservative,[2][14] and anti-immigration.[2][6][18]" is not entirely inaccurate. Newton's Third applies as much in politics as it does in physics.

            It's easy to glamorize things like the EU at a distance, especially if you happen to agree with their policies. It's another to experience being ruled by mostly unaccountable politicians who are not even on the same landmass as you. That experience was a major part of the reason that Americans today are Americans, and not British.

        • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday February 02 2020, @11:54PM

          by Grishnakh (2831) on Sunday February 02 2020, @11:54PM (#952934)

          Umm, there's a majority in Northern Ireland that wish to remain in the Union with Great Britain.

          They're irrelevant. If the rest of the UK didn't want them to stay, then the fact that they want to stay doesn't count for much. It only counts if the rest of the UK wants to keep them, but I was positing a scenario where they don't.

          It's like your weird uncle John who's staying at your house in the spare bedroom in the basement. If you (the homeowner) decide you want him to move out, the fact that he doesn't want to go doesn't matter.

          Putting a 'virtual border' in the Irish Sea is going to cause a lot of difficulties.

          You think a land border between NI and Ireland would be better? That'll just bring back the Troubles, since it's exactly one of the main things that was agreed on with the Good Friday Agreement and putting a customs border there would be reneging on that agreement that finally ended the Troubles.

      • (Score: 3, Disagree) by rleigh on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:00PM (2 children)

        by rleigh (4887) on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:00PM (#952300) Homepage

        The major difference is that the citizens of New York state have elected representatives at federal level, directly accountable to them at the ballot box. The European Commission and Courts of Justice have zero direct democratic accountability. We can't remove them. We can't influence them. They have the ultimate power and are unaccountable to the citizens of the countries which appointed them.

        The individual states making up the USA have given up some sovereign rights in forming the Union, in exchange for certain things being done at a federal level. Like defence and foreign policy. But the USA has checks and balances in place to have democratic accountability at the state and federal level, and in courts of law. The EU does not have, and has never had, anything similar. It's modelled upon the Soviet politbureau, not exactly a bastion of democracy. It's been clear for years that the Common Law UK was fundamentally incompatible with Civil Law European states. Brexit was the only sane outcome to correct matters. The alternative was to have our freedoms trampled upon.

        I voted to leave the EU. It's the only democratic vote I've cast in my life which has had real meaning. It's one of those decisions which will change the course of history for our nations and the world. For better or worse? We'll see. Ultimately, this comes down to sovereignty and accountability. Today, for the first time in 47 years, our elected politicians are directly accountable to us for their actions. Their successes and failures are our successes and failures. The EU isn't there as a safety blanket or a scapegoat. The buck stops with them. Now that they again have full control over the running of our affairs, we can hope that the political lightweights are replaced by more serious and mature politicians who will run things effectively.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:43PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:43PM (#952306)

          The European Commission and Courts of Justice have zero direct democratic accountability.

          That's a bad argument. Following your "directly accountable" argument, the POTUS doesn't match the model you're arguing for either -- or we wouldn't have those discussions about the electoral vote every four years. And neither does the US directly elect federal judges or the Supreme Court, so in the US too, citizens do not have direct control over the institutions that have the ultimate power. You also conveniently left out the European Parliament, which is directly elected, just like the US senate.

          The EU does not have, and has never had, anything similar.

          That's astonishing. Your model of "accountability at the state and federal level" in the US is mirrored in the EU by national governments and parliaments. Are you really under the impression that the member states of the EU are dictatorships?

          It's modelled upon the Soviet politbureau

          Ah, you wear rose-colored glasses. Are you sure you haven't deluded yourself in a no-true-scotsman fashion into believing that only the UK and US represent functional democracies, and everything else is crap?

          I voted to leave the EU.

          No surprise there. If you cannot see the difference between different democratic structures and authoritarian rule, that explains both your attitude towards the EU and the state of the UK in ten years.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @11:04PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @11:04PM (#952910)

            While it's true that Americans don't directly elect the president, the president is still accountable to the citizens. This is not the case for the EU president and the EU commissioner. Member states are mandated to follow the laws passed by the EU and they have no recourse getting legislation modified or repealed. In America, there are ways for citizens to get US federal laws to be changed and even amend the US constitution. The checks and balances available in the US aren't quite mirrored in the EU.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @02:40AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @02:40AM (#952607)

        Your stupid example would be more like London leaving the UK, than UK leaving the EU. Once the USA-UK trade deals go through, the EU will be begging for scraps. Suck on it, communist scum.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @08:41PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @08:41PM (#952483)

      "Why did Britain fight a war against Germany 60 odd years ago?"

      Why did england instigate a war with their racial brothers/cousins? Because the International Jew told them to, because the Germans were getting independent from the International Jew banksters!

      Watch "Adolf Hitler: the Greatest Story Never Told" and "Adolf Hitler: A Last Appeal to Reason". .

  • (Score: 2) by looorg on Saturday February 01 2020, @11:52AM (6 children)

    by looorg (578) on Saturday February 01 2020, @11:52AM (#952298)

    Now the interesting time will start. If they can manage to get things right they will have created a proper recipe for actually leaving the monstrosity that is the EU. If successful and it doesn't turn out all horrible it's now just a matter of time before others start to leave.

    • (Score: 4, Touché) by pTamok on Saturday February 01 2020, @01:12PM

      by pTamok (3042) on Saturday February 01 2020, @01:12PM (#952315)

      If successful...

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:07PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:07PM (#952338)

      THIS is why the EU was so desperate to prevent the UK leaving: for showing the others it can be done.
      The EU is not inevitable and inescapable.

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:01PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:01PM (#952495)

        Article 50.

        Your point is a lie.

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @02:47AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @02:47AM (#952610)

          You are the one being disingenous.
          Sure there is a clause stating you can leave. But the EU made it very clear with its threats that there would be a very high price to pay (literally) if you dare invoke your right to do so. All this was done because the UK was the first country to have experienced EU membership and say, thanks but no thanks. We can do better as a free state. If the UK succeeds, others may follow its example. What then of the dream of the dissolution of individual countries into a single "Europe"? It will be killed.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @02:15AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @02:15AM (#952597)

      This is what Putin wants. The EU in chaos, the U.S. in chaos, and the UK in chaos.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 03 2020, @01:43AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 03 2020, @01:43AM (#952965)

        If Putin wanted the UK in chaos, all he had to do is encourage the UK to remain united within the EU.

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by VLM on Saturday February 01 2020, @06:34PM (2 children)

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 01 2020, @06:34PM (#952425)

    Why is the world still here? I was promised brexit would be the end of the world. Kinda like how I was promised Trump would fire up the gas chambers. Its almost like the propaganda in the media is all a lie...

  • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:56PM (5 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Saturday February 01 2020, @09:56PM (#952516) Journal

    This is a sharp reversal for the Post-War Consensus in Europe. The EU was meant to be an additional counterweight to the Soviet Union, an equal partner with the US in promoting Western democracy, freedom, and capitalism in the world.

    And here we are, with the whole project seeming to come undone because of un-democratic assumption of powers by Brussels and unchecked immigration forced through by Angela Merkel.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @10:43PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01 2020, @10:43PM (#952532)

      Russia / US induced crisis in the middle east -> millions of refugees -> disharmony in EU. I'm not sure they saw this ahead of time, but it certainly worked to destabilize the EU. Thinking about it, it happened to the Soviet Union so they perhaps knew. And perhaps the US encouraged that in the first place... so tinfoil hats on quick!

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @01:21AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @01:21AM (#952579)

        Hmmm, the "Colour" revolutions [wikipedia.org]? Velvet in Czechoslovakia, Rose in Georgia, Orange in Ukraine, Yellow in the Phillipines, Saffron in Myanmar, Green in Iran; What colour is Brexit? Oh, yes, of course, White! All brought to you by alphabet organizations.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 03 2020, @07:45PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 03 2020, @07:45PM (#953263)

        there's a russian author i saw interviewed who claimed that the US was doing this on purpose to weaken europe for it's benefit. If so, that's racial treason.

    • (Score: 2) by quietus on Sunday February 02 2020, @09:37AM (1 child)

      by quietus (6328) on Sunday February 02 2020, @09:37AM (#952680) Journal

      The EU meant as a counterweight to the Soviet-Union is kind of hard to imagine, as the Soviet-Union had been dissolved by the time ...

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @12:32PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 02 2020, @12:32PM (#952693)

        You pointed out an example of the type of thinking the pro EU fanatics do. They tend to think the EU is something that has been aroubd for much longer than it actually has. They literally can't imagine a world without it which leads them to outbursts of anguish when Brexit happens.

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