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posted by Fnord666 on Wednesday May 27 2020, @12:31PM   Printer-friendly
from the fact-checking dept.

Twitter adds label to Trump's misleading tweets about mail-in ballots:

Twitter said Tuesday that it added a label to President Donald Trump's tweets for containing "potentially misleading information about voting processes," a rare move that shows the social media company is taking a tougher stance against misinformation.

It's the first time that Twitter has displayed a label on Trump's tweets.

On Tuesday, Trump tweeted that "There is NO WAY (ZERO!) that Mail-in-Ballots will be anything less than substantially fraudulent," a claim that has been debunked by fact-checkers and news organizations. He continues his remarks in another tweet, stating that it will be a "Rigged election."

A label appears under both tweets that states "Get the facts about mail-in ballots." Clicking on the warning notice directs users to a page that states that fact-checkers say there isn't any evidence that mail-in ballots are linked to voter fraud. Trump also falsely states in the tweets that California will send mail-in ballots to "anyone living in the state, no matter who they are or how they got there" when only registered voters will receive ballots. States such as Oregon, Utah and Washington have long conducted elections by mail only, while states such as Nebraska allow any voter to request a ballot and vote by mail without having to provide a reason.

A Twitter spokeswoman said in a statement that the decision is in line with how the company approaches misinformation on its site, which includes adding warning notices and labels depending on the likelihood and severity of harm a tweet could cause.

Twitter's actions against Trump's tweets will also likely increase tensions between the company and conservative users, who allege that the social network suppresses their speech. Twitter has repeatedly denied those allegations. Earlier this month, Trump tweeted that the "Radical Left" is in control of Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and Google and said his administration is working on a solution.

In two tweets, Trump accused Twitter of interfering in the 2020 US presidential election.

"Twitter is completely stifling FREE SPEECH, and I, as President, will not allow it to happen!," he tweeted.

Also at BBC News, Ars Technica, MIT Technology Review


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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @12:49PM (98 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @12:49PM (#999587)

    A reality check [twitter.com] for Twitter's "head of site integrity" [twitter.com]

    • (Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:06PM (80 children)

      by PiMuNu (3823) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:06PM (#999599)

      For foreigners/uneducated, what do the different links mean?

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:30PM (79 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:30PM (#999617)

        They are both collections of screenshots. The first shows Trump's tweet about mail-in ballots with Twitter's added "fact check", the contents of the "fact check" debunking Trump's claim followed by a news headline relating to the arrest of a mail man for election fraud. [dailywire.com]

        The second link is a collection of screen-grabbed Tweets from a Twitter employee who would have been involved with "fact-checking" Trump's tweet showing a clear partisan and elitist bias. The arrested mail man changed D to R and if you scroll though the Twitter threads, you'll find video of Jerry Nadler making the same complaint Trump did about mail-in voting. The entire thing makes Twitter's "fact checkers" look stupid.

        • (Score: 1, Troll) by RS3 on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:16PM (77 children)

          by RS3 (6367) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:16PM (#999640)

          So we need to debunk the debunkers. Where will it end? What is a "fact" anymore? What even is "truth"?

          • (Score: -1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:16PM (7 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:16PM (#999684)

            Something really needs to be done about the democrat troll mod army.

            • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:18PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:18PM (#999686)

              Sweet baby jesus you're dumb.

            • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:03PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:03PM (#999729)

              Something really needs to be done about the democrat troll mod army.

              Poor victim!

              • (Score: 3, Funny) by Bot on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:19AM

                by Bot (3902) on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:19AM (#1000090) Journal

                When you see a perfectly feasible comment get modded troll, you already know something's up. If I don't get enough downmodding and ad hominems (ad botums really) it's sign I am doing something wrong.

                --
                Account abandoned.
            • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:46PM (3 children)

              by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:46PM (#999840) Journal

              Indeed. It feels like I'm perusing Twitter whenever SN posts anything remotely political.

              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @11:41PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @11:41PM (#999976)

                You should treat posts on political articles as entertainment- it's much more entertaining than trying to make a point that doesn't matter (here, at least) anyway.

                If things get slow, just go A/C and throw down a "Trump's right!!", or "Conservatives are all liars!!", and watch the extreme effort put into earning internet points that literally don't matter.

                I know it's trolling, but a bit more subtle than some I've seen, and certainly better to laugh at the screamers than to take the irrelevants seriously.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:14AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:14AM (#1000088)

                  > it's much more entertaining than trying to make a point that doesn't matter (here, at least) anyway.

                  Ha ha you think they matter somewhere else pfffffffffffffft!

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @05:54PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @05:54PM (#1000214)

                  Ah yes, trolling concerned people for the lulz.

                  And you asshats wonder why the country is turning to shit. People who care are shoved to the extremes, and lazy cynics stir the pot specifically to make things worse.

                  Nihilism is dumb, and $666 you consider yourself a Libertarian who loves South Park.

          • (Score: 1, Troll) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:46PM (67 children)

            by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:46PM (#999709) Journal

            In today's world, if you contradict a Democrat you are liar. If you distrust the FBI, NSA, CIA -- you are a liar.

            This isn't fact checking. It's naked propaganda.

            • (Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:54PM (37 children)

              by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:54PM (#999720) Journal

              Nope. You're a liar when you knowingly conflate a single anecdote as evidence of "significant" fraud, though.

              • (Score: 4, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:15PM (32 children)

                by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:15PM (#999744) Journal

                You really think this is the only example? Maybe you do, but there's a reason that the legacy media is continuing to bleed trust -- it is obviously partisan, which is fine in itself -- people like reading opinion pieces -- but what peeves people is opinion dressed as objective fact. As the media continues this game, it is inevitable that more and more people will run across a story presented as fact which, either through personal knowledge or by checking sources independently, is revealed as propaganda. From there it's a spiral into a default skeptical reaction rather than a default trusting reaction. Even you might find yourself there someday.

                • (Score: 5, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:39PM (5 children)

                  by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:39PM (#999756) Journal

                  You really think this is the only example?

                  It's the only one that was provided. How about you provide, say, ten more then we can talk about trends.

                  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Bot on Wednesday May 27 2020, @10:47PM (3 children)

                    by Bot (3902) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @10:47PM (#999958) Journal

                    Trend, republican states have less deaths, in absolute and relative terms, than democrat states. Yet Trump is the crazy one and dems are the saviors. Fact check this.

                    --
                    Account abandoned.
                    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Pslytely Psycho on Wednesday May 27 2020, @11:30PM (2 children)

                      by Pslytely Psycho (1218) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @11:30PM (#999971)

                      Less population, less dense population, lack of testing (not testing the dead) way underfunded health care. Many do have elevated death tolls this year. I would suspect undercounts due to lack of testing supplies, underfunding and possibly a political desire to undercount.

                      And yes, Trump is out of his fucking mind. No one sane lies that often, especially on things where the truth would of served him better.

                      But Dems are not saviors.
                      Perhaps marginally more sane...but savior is a word I hear much more from the right as a political weapon. You know, like how you just falsely used it or like socialism/communism (the right never learned their definitions and confuse them with regularity) religious rights (translation: Christian rights...why should they have more rights than I? Dammit, I want Atheist rights!) etc, etc....yeah weaponized words to cover ineffective, discriminatory policies or even trying to overturn that which they themselves created or approved (EPA) in earlier, saner times.

                      You really are a bot, in drastic need of logic circuits.

                      --
                      Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
                      • (Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:26AM (1 child)

                        by Bot (3902) on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:26AM (#1000091) Journal

                        Less population is irrelevant when we are speaking about percentage. Less dense population is irrelevant when lockdown is in effect, unless the lockdown itself is irrelevant, in which case having enforced it is a disaster.

                        I am not saying dems are the saviours, the mainstream says that. So basically you agree with everything I said.

                        --
                        Account abandoned.
                        • (Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Thursday May 28 2020, @10:02AM

                          by Pslytely Psycho (1218) on Thursday May 28 2020, @10:02AM (#1000113)

                          Agreeing with a portion is not the equivalent of agreeing in total. (As a left-leaning centrist, I don't agree in total with either side.)

                          And less population and density is by far not irrelevant. The horrid under funding of our medical system is a disaster. Cutting the office responsible for pandemic preparation in 2017 exacerbated the current problems.

                          Saying the D's are saviors is your biased interpretation of the mainstream.

                          And Trump is still the Lie-on king.

                          Good day to you, it's bar-b-que time! (what do bots bar-b-que? motor oil soaked circuit boards?)

                          --
                          Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
                  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Pslytely Psycho on Wednesday May 27 2020, @11:06PM

                    by Pslytely Psycho (1218) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @11:06PM (#999961)

                    Ok, here's a whole list of voter fraud cases provided by your friend and mine, The Heritage Foundation. I only researched for the most part larger or interesting sounding cases as there is no partisan filter and frequently no mention of party affiliation. There are far too many to research all of them, unless your a political addict or psychotic. So chance played a roll in what I found.

                    https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?combine=&state=All&year=&case_type=All&fraud_type=All [heritage.org]

                    Look at that! There's one or two every year in many states of individuals committing voter fraud! Taken all together, they might sway a dog catchers election in a small town!!!!

                    (changes filters to something with the potential of actual damage--criminal conviction plus altering the vote count)

                    https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?combine=&state=All&year=&case_type=24487&fraud_type=24511 [heritage.org]

                    And look at those numbers! FOUR! Democracy is doomed! Two were GOP defrauding the election, one was someone stealing an unsealed ballot box, but didn't get to the stage of changing ballots so political affiliation unknown and one was for a non-partisan private homeowners' association election.

                    (changes filters to something with the potential of actual damage--criminal conviction plus fraudulent use of absentee ballots)

                    https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?combine=&state=All&year=&case_type=24487&fraud_type=24489 [heritage.org]

                    Hmmm, very interesting results...You have to look up each case individually as they don't provide a partisan filter, but I looked up around twenty of the ones involving more that twenty or thirty ballots (that would only matter in the smallest of elections generally), and although most of the largest were GOP defrauding elections in places like S.C. or Alabama, many were non-partisan small town elections committed by businessmen looking for political favor and not party ideologies. Gee, businessmen are crooks? Who knew? A smattering of independent and DNC involved ones as well, but the minority OF THE ONES I RESEARCHED....

                    (changes filters to something with the potential of actual damage-OK, not actual damage, but one certain factions love to tout as the worst of the worst-criminal conviction plus impersonation fraud at the polls)

                    https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?combine=&state=All&year=&case_type=24487&fraud_type=24493 [heritage.org]

                    Spouses telling other spouse how to vote at poll, people voting in place of relatives, one or two of people voting for three or more relatives.....small potatoes and none large enough to matter as far as I could tell.

                    Now I did NOT look up each and every case in these lists, (I bar-b-q'ing Buffalo burgers later, it's beautiful outside and I don't want to waste all of it looking up stupid shit!) just some of the largest ones which since few stated any political bias in the descriptions means it's POSSIBLE I just stumbled upon more GOP and non-partisan "get my buddy elected so I get favor" fraud than DNC fraud.

                    There are also a lot of filters I didn't use, buying votes, illegal assistance, illegal registration and a few others. For example overturned elections were mostly Judicial Findings where handfuls of votes that were cast outside of districts, late absentee votes that were counted when they shouldn't of been, recounts and exactly four criminal cases where I did find two DNC, one GOP (this one involves a difficult to find information on the parties involved, and may actually be more of a personal gain than partisan) and one personal interest case involving taxation.

                    All of these cases are small, none seem larger than a regional or local problem and don't involve a national election, and even if they did their size would be insignificant to change the outcome. So screaming voter fraud at the top of their lungs seems at every damned election (until they win, then it evaporates...hmmmm) more of a preemptive excuse for losing an election than anything grounded in facts.

                    But then again, the one that yells the loudest about others crimes, is frequently only try to distract attention from their own.

                    --
                    Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
                • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:17PM (16 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:17PM (#999776)

                  That is only because Republicans have become so extremely rightwing that even lite conservativism like CNN etc. look partisan to you. As a liberal I can safely say that no MSM outlet comes close to my political preferences, they are all flavors of corporate conservatism.

                  You really should take a vacation and spend some time attempting to critically and objectively analyze conservative and liberal viewpoints. You might be surprised to find that conservatives embody most everything they criticize, in this instance your martyr "snowflake" complex. This COVID issue is also a great example, why are conservatives complaining so much about wearing masks and social distancing? Hardly a cross to bear compared to invading the Middle East with a good chance of dismemberment and death, but hey SUPPORT THE TROOPS, THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS AMIRITE?

                  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:00PM (13 children)

                    by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:00PM (#999798) Journal

                    I'm a liberal too but the type who feels backstabbed by the DNC. One can make peace with one's enemies or engage in temporary detente when interests align, but traitors, that's a different matter.

                    As for Republicans becoming super right-wing -- I'm not seeing that. I'm seeing a DNC permeated by FBI, CIA, NSA operatives, a strange newage McCarthyism, a fat hardon for regime change, in banksters back pockets, and a corporate friendly woke agenda that threatens none of those institutional players but does make people completely immune to considering other positions -- you don't negotiate with actual nazis, you kill actual nazis.

                    And just so we're crystal clear, the most fascistic right wing policy possible, is to execute American citizens without trial for the content of their speech. And that policy, that's on Obama. It was when I learned about due process free execution of citizens (and let's remember that Democrats excoriated GWB for mere due process free detention of foreigners (gitmo)) that my growing doubts about Democrats crystalized -- they don't care about evil policies, they care only that THEY get implement evil policy. Sorry, I'm not in that tribe. I don't care red or blue, I care about policy.

                    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:20PM (9 children)

                      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:20PM (#999811) Journal

                      Holy whataboutism batman!

                      Why is it OK for Republicans, such as Trump's press secretary [tampabay.com] and Trump himself [cnn.com] to vote by mail but not OK for us to?

                      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:35PM (8 children)

                        by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:35PM (#999823) Journal

                        Really? killing citizens without trial for saying stuff doesn't phase you one bit?

                        I would say everything else is whataboutism. There is no policy that is a greater human rights violation than that.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:44PM (6 children)

                          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:44PM (#999837)

                          I too was opposed to those, however, it could easily be argued that those people were enemy combatants as they were putting in with people that we were at war with (even if it was a largely undeclared war, it was authorized by congress under the AUMF, at least according to some legal scholars).

                          • (Score: 2, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:49PM (5 children)

                            by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:49PM (#999843) Journal

                            No such evidence was ever presented at a public trial as required by the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The ONLY facts we have, are that Americans were murdered by the Feds because they said stuff the Feds did not like. That's fascist. Pure simple authoritarian evil and there is no justification possible.

                            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @08:49PM (4 children)

                              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @08:49PM (#999907)

                              Believe it or not my left-wing ass agrees with you. Many liberals weren't huge fans of Obama, but he was better than most that came before him.

                              I find it strange that you would then go on to stupport the GOP, it isn't like US fascism hasn't been around for a good long time. Maybe the droning of a US citizen was what woke you up, but all I see from you is mostly conservative tropes. I would think the GOP senate declining to hear evidence in the impeachment trial would rile you up at least a little bit as much.

                              Ah well, strange times we live in where humans don't know who to trust or what to believe.

                              • (Score: 2, Interesting) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @09:05PM

                                by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @09:05PM (#999919) Journal

                                I believe the parties are in the process of reversing roles. It's happened in the past, for example with slavery/race issues. Going forward, I suspect the "right" (I don't even know what the correct word is anymore honestly) is going to be increasingly inclusive, it certainly is more willing to engage in discussion and entertain opposing viewpoints -- the left (if that's the right term) is all in on cancel culture and displaying every greater authoritarian tendencies. I see the DNC becoming the establishment party and the GOP is close to taking up the banner of counter-cultural rebels. Ten years will tell.

                                I'm neither Democrat nor Republican, but as I've said before, I used to be a Dem, I feel betrayed by them, and the deepest hatred is reserved for one's traitors, not one's enemies. And yeah, I'll admit it: if Trump wins, I will experience schadenfreude even greater than I did last time, even though I voted Green. I want nothing more than to see the entire Clintonian cancer on the DNC, utterly humiliated and excised so we can get to something decent.

                              • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @09:58PM (2 children)

                                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @09:58PM (#999936)

                                Many liberals weren't huge fans of Obama, but he was better than most that came before him.

                                I had big hopes for him. And he didn't get anything done at all. Things continued like under Baby Bush. Americans were droned, spied upon; Guantanamo remains open; we fucked up Libya and the Ukraine.

                                Perhaps he got a visit early on that convinced him not to interfere with the deep state.

                                • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @01:25AM (1 child)

                                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @01:25AM (#1000014)

                                  There is no deep state, just oligarchies doing their thing like in every country ever. All the buzzwords like terrorist, deep state, conspiracy, military action, those are all to create an air of mystery. To make people thinking something new and different is going on instead of the long history of the wealthy oppressing the poor.

                                  It is tragic how well the bullshit works.

                                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:18AM

                                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:18AM (#1000089)

                                    They employ gamekeepers whose job it is corral those even more unfortunate away from the important people.

                        • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Thursday May 28 2020, @10:06PM

                          by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday May 28 2020, @10:06PM (#1000298) Journal

                          Only a democrat would dwonmod a post that condemns a star chamber of the US Executive branch killing its citizens without trial.

                    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:22PM (2 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:22PM (#999813)

                      I agree, but I see republicans utterly decimated as a party. The religious freaks I hated have mostly disappeared from public view. The tea-partyers have evaporated. What does the republican pary still stand for? Currently all energy seems to go defending Trump, a refugee from the democrat party, from the relentless MSM onslaught.

                      The democrat party is not in much better shape, but they still have their core constituencies of the media elites and welfare recipients.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:29PM (1 child)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:29PM (#999819)

                        "media elites and welfare recipients"

                        Ho boy, I know that has been a conservative mantra for a long time now, but damn if it isn't the most clueless shit around.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:11PM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:11PM (#999858)

                          The first step is to admit the Republican party has a problem. Jared is re-writing the party platform in advance of the Republican National Convention at Mar-ol-Lager. "Some good people" expected to be in attendance. "Welfare recipients" is so pre-Clinton!

                  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:30PM (1 child)

                    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:30PM (#999820) Journal

                    Trump threatens to shut down social media after Twitter fact-checks him [chicagotribune.com]

                    And what would actually be unconstitutional government censorship is completely fine, according to all these censorship wolf-criers.

                    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @01:03AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @01:03AM (#1000004)

                      Thankfully Tim Pool gets it. [youtube.com]

                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by meustrus on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:52PM (8 children)

                  by meustrus (4961) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:52PM (#999792)

                  You really think this is the only example?

                  If you provide only one example, then there is only one example. It's your responsibility, not anybody else's, to collect facts supporting your own argument.

                  From there it's a spiral into a default skeptical reaction rather than a default trusting reaction.

                  It's unfortunate that the "default skeptical reaction" so often applies only to so-called mainstream media, and is not employed for partisan content one wants to agree with. "Fair and balanced" my ass.

                  The correct reaction to discovering that everyone has a perspective that can bias their reporting is to insist on facts. If anybody fails to adequately support their own argument, it probably means they haven't even properly investigated it for themselves. It's not your responsibility to collect their facts for them.

                  The worst thing you can do, though, is scramble about looking for somebody else to trust. Did you learn nothing from discovering CNN's media bias? Why would you think that any cable network is better? Why would you think somebody on the internet is more trustworthy? Just because the left lies sometimes doesn't mean the right never lies ever.

                  --
                  If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
                  • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:10PM (7 children)

                    by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:10PM (#999805) Journal

                    Sorry, this is a total cop out. If you want to pretend to be blind it's on you, but here some things to consider: Yellow cake. Russiagate (including the Flynn debacle). The differences in how sexual assault claims are treated when the target is a Democrat like Biden.

                    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by meustrus on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:07PM (5 children)

                      by meustrus (4961) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:07PM (#999853)

                      You're not sorry, but I get it. It's much easier to see the flaws in our opponents than it is to see the flaws in ourselves.

                      I'm not here to tell you that you're wrong. I'm here to tell you that other people are just as skeptical as you are.

                      When you see some people accept lies and half-truths from the New York Times, it's not that those people are incapable of skepticism. They are plenty skeptical of Fox News and the like. They just have a blind spot for people telling them what they want to hear.

                      Similarly, when you hear lies and half-truths from Fox News, you should pretend that it came from the New York Times. Apply your "default skeptical reaction" to everything, not just the news sources you have caught saying lies you don't like.

                      To come back around to my first point, though, it's important how you talk about these things. Don't just assume people know about "yellowcake". You have to go through the motions of relaying the facts yourself. Sometimes, you will find that the narrative you've adopted doesn't quite fit together. It's happened to me a few times that I didn't know I was wrong until I tried to convince someone else I was right.

                      The last thing any of us should want is for ideology to be more important than the facts. The facts are the only thing that you and I can both look at and agree on. They're the things that make your opponents squirm when they hear them. Use that. Stop trying to turn every argument into some post-modern bullshit about how there is no truth, so the only thing you can do is attack the liars. All that accomplishes is everyone involved believing they were right and everyone else is an idiot.

                      We all surround ourselves with information that supports our existing worldview. Google and social media do that to us now, too. It's entirely possible that if I search for something, I won't find the facts, because all my friends and Google search results have a particular bias. That's why it's especially important to make a complete and compelling argument to everyone you're talking to. You can't assume they can find the facts anywhere else.

                      --
                      If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
                      • (Score: 2, Touché) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @08:47PM (4 children)

                        by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @08:47PM (#999906) Journal

                        You presume SN is a place for discussion. It has devolved into a downmod hoard of Democrat partisans who have no interest in discussion because everyone else, even other liberals like me, is a literal nazi. They can take those terms and RTFG (because of course they wouldn't use DDG) but to hell with putting in any effort for them.

                        • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @08:55PM (1 child)

                          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @08:55PM (#999911)

                          Do you even listen to yourself?

                          I call straight up bullshit on your "liberal" identity. You are only ever harping on the liberals around here while there is plenty of conservative bullshit for you to bite into.

                          Get fucked asshole, YOU are the type of partisan fuckwad you are angry about but it is never a YOU problem. Gaslight Obstruct Project! Snowflake whiner.

                          • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Thursday May 28 2020, @10:09PM

                            by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday May 28 2020, @10:09PM (#1000300) Journal

                            You confuse (or conflate) liberal with Democrat.

                            Democrats are the avowed enemy of liberals. Not by words of course, but by their deeds they are known.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @10:01PM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @10:01PM (#999938)

                          who have no interest in discussion

                          Worse: Their goal is to prevent other people from seeing what someone else wrote, because the default squelch is +1.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:26AM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:26AM (#1000092)

                          Any yet this is about the 10th time you've said that - on this thread.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:09PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:09PM (#999856)

                      You act as though it is only the Left that is treating sexual assault differently when it is done by the Left.

                      Don't attempt to claim that the Right did not do the exact same thing when the shoe was on the other foot.

                      You will need to bring up something that actually distinguishes the two sides to have an argument for one or the other.

              • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:18PM

                by RS3 (6367) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:18PM (#999749)

                But that applies to everyone, right? In all ways, circumstances, right?

              • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:41PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:41PM (#999758)

                Here's a link https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud [heritage.org] to a list of recent election fraud cases in the US. Note they only list ones that are investigated or prosecuted. Oh, and they list sources for every single one.

                Even using such strict criteria, they have over a thousand cases.

                At some point, anecdotes are data, for a sufficiently large number of anecdotes.

                • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:44PM (1 child)

                  by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:44PM (#999760) Journal

                  Most of those are NOT mail in voting fraud.

                  So I guess we need to eliminate in person voting first since it results in more fraud.

                  • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:13PM

                    by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:13PM (#999808) Journal

                    Fraud is fraud. Kind of link how all the "*.onTheInternet" patents are extra-ridiculous ways of describing the same thing done, but with a computer. Voter fraud done by mail is just the evolution of voter fraud, just like paying the seller online is merely an extension of paying the seller in person.

            • (Score: 2, Insightful) by RS3 on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:24PM (28 children)

              by RS3 (6367) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:24PM (#999752)

              I got modded "troll", twice at least, for making a completely non-political statement. I'm starting to hate this site for its very broken mod system. Mod system abuse was discussed at length many times and yet it's unchanged. If one person can drop my post out of visibility to most who come here, then at the very least the system should 1) tell me who did it, and 2) force them to give a legitimate justification for the mod, or they themselves should lose karma, mod points, etc. No point in wasting my time here, trying to engage in some kind of intelligent discussion. Ironically (really) green site has been great, for quite a while now.

              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:13PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:13PM (#999774)

                Whiner

              • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:27PM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:27PM (#999779)

                So we need to debunk the debunkers. Where will it end? What is a "fact" anymore? What even is "truth"?

                That is hardly a post worth defending, and rather trollish.

                The only other post than the one I'm replying to has no negative mods. So you posted AC apparently. The mod system is what you get to deal with instead of users getting banned. It has many problems, but so far no one has come up with an effective solution.

                #1 is a good way to generate animosity and user wars
                #2 people will not bother modding if they have to provide justifications for their opinions, and besides who judges if the mod is appropriate? Right now the admins/editors supposedly only correct baltant mod bombing or misused mods, but encourage more of that and you get a new set of problems where admins/editors dictate acceptable speech.

                Maybe just don't get worked up about mod points, anyone can click on your post to see what it is. If you usually have decent posts that do not get modded troll/flamebait then a lot of people will click your post so they can read it.

                PS: you have no right to have your ideas pushed on to other people, and other people are allowed to criticize you. There is a certain irony about you complaining about mods in this story ;~)

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:51PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:51PM (#999791)

                  The mod system is what you get to deal with instead of users getting banned.

                  Oh, you own SN? We're supposed to be grateful that people who disagree with you don't get banned?

                  • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:37PM (1 child)

                    by RS3 (6367) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:37PM (#999875)

                    There is so much illogic in previous AC's post that it's not worth the time and effort to refute each point.

                    And to him, I did not post AC anywhere in this discussion, and very rarely do.

                    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @06:06PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @06:06PM (#1000218)

                      Your brain, it no worky good.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:19PM (19 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:19PM (#999810)

                Realize, Democrat (*) propagandists are everywhere, they are unwilling to engage in dialogue, they wish to advance their views by force, and they have no compunction about lying or fabricating agenda driven narratives.

                To combat:

                Step one: don't post with a karma bonus on because doing so allows up to -3 karma, not doing so only -2.
                Step two: Keep coming back for days and look for abuse and correct it. This is how I spend most of my mod points these days -- looking for comments marked troll etc., and then upmodding. I'll come back when my points recycle and get yours if I agree with it.

                (*) Let's detangle liberal and open minded, from the word Democrat. Democrats are as rational and open as 80s Evangelicals.

                • (Score: 2, Troll) by RS3 on Wednesday May 27 2020, @08:09PM (18 children)

                  by RS3 (6367) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @08:09PM (#999891)

                  Thanks for the insight and great tips. Frankly, unless the admins fix the mod system (and some great ideas have been set forth), I just won't waste my time here. There are many much better sites. I mean, other than the mod system, this site is great.

                  I occasionally do fix mod abuse, but it's so bad here, I'd need 200 points a day, and 4 extra hours.

                  I foolishly thought SN was a place for open-minded thinkers. I usually stay out of discussions like this due to the illogic. I'd have more luck going to a Jim Jones-type event and trying to convince the people to not drink the kool-aid. I still can't believe my original post here is downmodded. All I tried to say is that it's foolish to 100% believe anyone else. Go talk to the Jim Jones people. Oh wait.

                  Thanks again. As always, I wish I knew who you were, among the crowd of ACs. You know, there are some great ones, maybe they're all you? And there are some true idiots- probably a few known people who are too afraid to post in their accounts.

                  Time for another breakaway system...

                  • (Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday May 27 2020, @08:23PM (5 children)

                    by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Wednesday May 27 2020, @08:23PM (#999896) Journal

                    That's hyperbolic. You have nearly 50 karma at all times but a couple of downmods got your feelings hurt. Also:

                    Step one: don't post with a karma bonus on because doing so allows up to -3 karma, not doing so only -2.

                    Not true. The karma bonus is virtual. It doesn't allow a comment to be downmodded an additional time. AC deserves a wedgie.

                    --
                    [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
                    • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @08:55PM (1 child)

                      by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @08:55PM (#999912) Journal

                      Is it virtual? When I post at +2 I can see a post go to 1, then 0, then -1 after three mods. Are you saying only two count against Karma.

                      Here's one way the karma system can be made better -- let's say you have 50 points, make a post, you first get +1 insightful and -1 troll -- at the end of that you have 49 points because at 50 you've ceilinged, however, if the mod order is reversed, you stay at 50. Same post, same mods, different score. It seems it would make sense to apply the sum of a posts mods to Karma, rather than just blindly adding or subtracting as they come in.

                      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday May 27 2020, @09:15PM

                        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Wednesday May 27 2020, @09:15PM (#999923) Journal

                        The clear way to test it is to go here:

                        https://soylentnews.org/my/comments [soylentnews.org]

                        Change the karma bonus to 0. And note that you can change it from -6 to +6.

                        With the karma bonus set to 1, you will sometimes see a logged-in comment at Score: 0, you try to mod them down, but the mod point is not spent because they are already at -1, you just have the karma bonus modifier at +1. Likewise, comments may appear to be at Score: 5 but can either be at Score: 5 or just Score: 4.

                        --
                        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
                    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by RS3 on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:24AM (2 children)

                      by RS3 (6367) on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:24AM (#1000043)

                      > That's hyperbolic.

                      Which thing, my whole post?

                      > downmods got your feelings hurt.

                      Sorry Dr. Phil, your mind-reader is broken. Feelings are not the issue. How does that make you feel? :)

                      I, wrongly I guess, thought this place was founded by intelligent people who wanted a much better atmosphere than that of dank biker-bar sh%*fest, I mean slashdot.

                      Mod-system abuse has been discussed many times, and top admins have stated clearly that modding someone "troll", just because you disagree, is mod abuse. Stating it, and doing something about it, are 2 different things. It's okay, I'm learning. Too slowly I guess. I'm more of a naive nerd than street-wise wit-slinger, but I usually eventually get it and make adjustments.

                      • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday May 28 2020, @07:54PM (1 child)

                        by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday May 28 2020, @07:54PM (#1000263) Journal

                        Testify, brother!

                        • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday May 29 2020, @03:15AM

                          by RS3 (6367) on Friday May 29 2020, @03:15AM (#1000386)

                          Uh-oh, a kudo from Ari? I'm officially on the dark side? :) Look out idiots.

                          I started out with what I thought was a simple comment saying we can't be too sure of anything we hear or read. Simple, right? And it reflects most poorly on Trump, whose haters are 99.999% likely the idiots who downmodded me. I can be as, if not more, beastly than some of the best on here, but it's not who I want to be, and I resent the assholes here who push me to that. Didn't come here for that. Maybe that is the solution- increase the dark side numbers and destroy the idiots. Naaa, got better things to do, and much better people to spend my time with. But thanks for the kudo, and for staying strong and stimulating whatever the hell this place is.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @10:17PM (3 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @10:17PM (#999945)

                    Frankly, unless the admins fix the mod system (and some great ideas have been set forth), I just won't waste my time here. There are many much better sites. I mean, other than the mod system, this site is great.

                    It's what the green site had, but without the meta-moderation. Now, some sort of mod review could be helpful. As would be a check whether some are farming accounts to gain daily mod points.

                    But why get so frustrated? This site doesn't have an overwhelming amount of traffic, so I always (manually) set to -1. It's repetitive to have to do that, but it slightly frustrates the political downmodders' intentions and leaves the decision up to me what is troll and what isn't.

                    • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday May 28 2020, @02:52AM (2 children)

                      by RS3 (6367) on Thursday May 28 2020, @02:52AM (#1000036)

                      I'm not "so frustrated", Dr. Phil. No need to exaggerate. I'll admit I'm annoyed, or something. It's a matter of where I spend my time and effort. And, frankly, some (and it may only be a few) of the crowd here are people I'd be ashamed to be considered part of their group. [better explained further down]

                      This site has a lot of great people, including some ACs like yourself. I have many ideas for a great mod system that would encourage friendly, healthy, useful, spirited- all positive discussions, and would quickly shut down the ad hominem.

                      I might respond to Dr. Phil Takyon, but basically the sign out front says this place is a pleasant place to socialize, learn, have some snacks, and when you get inside you see it's a musty biker bar with beer, fists, and chairs flying (and occasional guns), orgies, the dankest smelliest place you've been in a long time, and the owners are happy with it. Okay, obvious exaggeration (it was my turn), but you get my point. Not sure if most here have their collective heads in the sand (see, I cleaned that up from what I maybe should have written) but a certain green site had to enact some pretty strong cleaning up and it worked. It can be done.

                      I will admit to being disappointed. This site was started by some great people who wanted to get away from the sh*#fest of green site. I foolishly presumed that meant this site would be populated by good people who were not going to let SN turn into yet another sh&(fest, and the admins would work to keep it a good environment. Too frequently I wonder if I'm just a rat in their maze.

                      Good point- this site doesn't have a lot of traffic, and I suppose they want it that way.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:50AM (1 child)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:50AM (#1000051)

                        No actually we came here because they moved our stapler. Fuck beta!

                        But then they got rid of anonymous speech, and the Slashcott was vindicated.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @04:24AM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @04:24AM (#1000057)

                          We've recently broken 1m comments!

                  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Reziac on Thursday May 28 2020, @02:37AM (7 children)

                    by Reziac (2489) on Thursday May 28 2020, @02:37AM (#1000033) Homepage

                    While we have two pretty distinct camps here, it's not difficult to ignore the "camp of idiots" (whichever you may feel that is). I don't worry too much about punitive mods, either, tho I spend a fair share of my mod points pulling good posts back up to visibility.

                    I do agree that downmods should be in some way expensive -- maybe cost two mod points instead of one, to discourage using Troll as a substitute for Disagree.

                    And I for one would be sorry to see you go.

                    --
                    And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
                    • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:14AM (5 children)

                      by RS3 (6367) on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:14AM (#1000037)

                      You, sir, are a true man, gentleman, and scholar. Thank you for your kind and uplifting words. I'm genuinely honored. I think I have some great ideas for a fairly different mod system. It would be hierarchical, downmods could be appealed, 1 mod would not move your post down 1 notch, who modded who would be public, etc. Someday when I have lots of time I might just try it. :) But maybe there are better ways to spend my time than fixing slashcode.

                      Honestly, I don't think there are any idiots, and I respect everyone's opinions. It's the mod system abuse that's been discussed many times, including by top admins, yet it continues unabated. I wish people would behave with more self-control, politeness, etc. I was raised that way, but society in general has degraded into everyone bashing everyone. Incivility. Spread much faster than COVID-19.

                      Human nature being what it is, on sites like this people behave much worse than they probably (hopefully) do in real life.

                      I have more to say about this system, downmods, mod-bombing, etc., but I don't want to make it public. I'll say this: the admins know it's a problem, and they've had to punish (such as it is) abusers. martyb himself (I think it was him...) wrote that modding "troll" just because you disagree with someone is mod system abuse. If it was up to me, said abuser would lose mod points for 2 weeks, karma would drop way down, ...

                      But that said, in my possible future system the downmodder would be allowed to state his case and defend his position, and we'd go from there.

                      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Reziac on Thursday May 28 2020, @05:45AM (2 children)

                        by Reziac (2489) on Thursday May 28 2020, @05:45AM (#1000065) Homepage

                        [bowing] Thank you too, kind sir.

                        The big reason for all mods to be anonymous is the potential for retaliatory mods. We're small enough that pretty much everyone knows everyone (it's not like Discus -- where downmods are under your own handle -- but with millions of comments, who matters?) and I think it would just be painting a target on yourself -- for downmodes OR upmods -- upmodding an unpopular position being just as likely to draw the ire of the True Believers In Contrary Things.

                        I think just making downmods more expensive (eg. two points each) would handle it, as best can be without unintended and perhaps even more unpleasant consequences.

                        Myself, I rarely downmod as it doesn't discourage idiots (shorthand for "people who believe things that are patently untrue, or who act like cunts") and I rarely find it useful; I have better things to do with my points, and I'm adept at skimming past garbage. Last time Buzzy (?) compiled mod stats, I was one of the least likely to downmod. I do sometimes upmod stuff I disagree with or even find wrongheaded, because it includes some point that deserves to be seen, or to avoid having a confusing gap in a discussion. I read here with default threshold at 0, and find a fair number of comments in the 0 rank that deserve a boost. I really like having the daily points and the ability to post and mod in the same discussion, as it produces a leveling effect (and if you think we're polarized, you should see how things are on the Green Site!! we're downright civil by comparison.)

                        --
                        And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
                        • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:36PM (1 child)

                          by RS3 (6367) on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:36PM (#1000179)

                          Thank you, all great points and insight. I also rarely downmod- only if it's true troll or flamebait.

                          That said, I could vote in favor of some new downmod types, but before I go on with that, I'd rather have NO downmods, except troll and spam. And anyone who misuses either gets punished. As I started to write in reply to janrinock, but just don't have the heart to spend time or thought on it, societies have had to form governments, laws, courts, punishments, to keep peace and civility. Much of my life I dreamt of a fairly free, open, mostly libertarian society, but there are too many very bad people so we need prisons. I'm writing today but I'll withhold future comments here until I see some changes to mod system abuse fixes.

                          Btw, I have no problem with people who believe things that are patently untrue. It's all about time and a timeline- we all just write the best of our ability and knowledge, right? Like my original post that got at least 7 downmods, well, it all dovetails into a lengthy philosophical discussion about what is fact or truth.

                          Hate to write it, but I've had a green site login since '98 or so. Rarely used it over the years (because it was so so bad), but green site is so cleaned up now that it's invigorating. I find brilliant comments and information there. And like you, I find it easy to skim past the garbage. Frankly, it's now the civil site, and SN is frequently a trainwreck / street riot. And you can always tell by the number of comments in a story. Green got tough and it worked.

                          • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday May 28 2020, @04:27PM

                            by Reziac (2489) on Thursday May 28 2020, @04:27PM (#1000190) Homepage

                            I must be looking at different Green articles... (I too go back to the Olden Times, being a middle-5-digiter from 1998) ...most comment chains that I peruse are loaded with vitriol of a caliber I've *never* seen here, not even from our habitually acrimonious types... and those I know from both sites are rather more bristly Over There. But I do like it better here and am rather more likely to click on and read down random articles here, as everything isn't so politically slanted here. And here I usually spend all my mod points; there I seldom do (tho there I seem to often have infinite mod points -- refills instantly after I use 'em up. Maybe it's a function of upmodding, or something.)

                            Had another thought relevant to the nominal topic:

                            Here, downmods are only done by Users. We might vehemently disagree, but downmods still reflect a broad spectrum of the community.

                            On the Dirty Bird, downmods (and tagging a post as Badthink or Wrong IS a downmod) are only done by the Site Authorities. Downmods are a decree from on high. (To be fair, I'd say the Bird has mobs, not communities.)

                            [I've had a Twatter account for about 12 years, but rarely use it, and I never just cruise new posts.]

                            --
                            And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:32AM (1 child)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:32AM (#1000095)

                        Hey don't neglect us idiots! Asshole.

                        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Reziac on Thursday May 28 2020, @04:31PM

                          by Reziac (2489) on Thursday May 28 2020, @04:31PM (#1000192) Homepage

                          LOL, okay, idiot AND asshole. Happy? :)

                          Back when Gab had downmods, there was a friendly competition to see who could achieve the worst negative score. (I think it got down into the mid-minus-50,000 range.) I had one follower who was in on that and made him very happy with a downvote every time I saw him. :P

                          You just gotta know your audience.

                          --
                          And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
                    • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:35AM

                      by RS3 (6367) on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:35AM (#1000049)

                      I'm not going to go, but I have limited time to spend, which is partly why I came here- smaller, more easily read discussions. But this site has become very heavily political. I can't help but notice the huge comment counts for anything remotely political, or that stirs political "discussion", and sadly sometimes zero comments for some great science (my strong interest / preference). So I'll check in here, try to up-mod anything that looks unfairly downmodded, as I've done all along, but I'll spend more of the available time in greener pastures. :)

              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:13PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:13PM (#999859)

                Troll!

              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Thursday May 28 2020, @02:21PM (1 child)

                by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 28 2020, @02:21PM (#1000161) Journal

                To an extent I agree with you - but it is pointless expecting an intelligent discussion on US politics on this site. Both sides have become polarised, entrenched and unwilling to take part in a reasoned discussion. I'll wait for the next story.

                • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:48PM

                  by RS3 (6367) on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:48PM (#1000182)

                  > but it is pointless expecting an intelligent a civil discussion on...

                  FTFY

                  I had many thoughts and had started writing them but what's the use. Thank you janrinok!

          • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by c0lo on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:06PM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:06PM (#999770) Journal

            So we need to debunk the debunkers. Where will it end?

            [Citation needed]
            1. What makes you sure the "debunkers"... ummm... bunk you? As in: can you plase demonstrate the need?
            2. Why do you need others to "debunk the debunkers"? Didn't nature give you a brain that you can use? Why do you need an "end" supported by others?

            What is a "fact" anymore? What even is "truth"?

            Boy, are you confused or what?
            Truth is what the nature will do to you whenever you stray away from the reality. You may get lucky a few times, but don't test it too many times, you won't be that lucky.

            Anything else if either not important (enough to assess the truth value of it) or a lie.
            For instance, the "injecting bleach cures corona" is a lie, as well as "economy is more important than (your) life".

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @11:31AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @11:31AM (#1000132)

          Notice that the mail man was caught. Rigging an election on a scale that can affect the outcome without being caught is notoriously difficult.

          You also see people trying to rig elections via ballot stuffing and other nonsense at voting locations. Does that mean that we shouldn't have in-person voting either? The reality is that mail-in voting isn't particularly insecure. Of course you're going to get some instances of people attempting fraud, but that doesn't mean it's not a viable voting method.

          The real danger lies with voting machines, which could be hacked in such a way as to leave little to no evidence of fraud. Destroying or stealing physical ballots (including mail-in ballots) leaves behind physical evidence and simply has far more risk.

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:17PM (16 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:17PM (#999641) Journal

      When I click a Twitter link, I get a silly blue tweety bird telling me "Something went wrong, but don’t fret — let’s give it another shot." I suppose it's because I don't allow them to run a bunch of shit scripts on my computer? And - people are dumb enough to think they should TRUST TWITTER?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:29PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:29PM (#999654)

        a silly blue tweety bird telling me "Something went wrong, but don’t fret — let’s give it another shot."

        Everybody knows tweety birds are yellow. Did it turn blue before or after you gave it another shot [wikipedia.org]?

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:20PM (12 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:20PM (#999687)

        Trump threatens twitter and you still are struggling to understand how he is fascist. Can't say I'm surprised, if youbdidn't get it by now it is because you're getting the kool-aid theough an IV, and your body is under the control of vampires.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:48PM (11 children)

          by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:48PM (#999714) Journal

          Twitter gets the safe harbor treatment immunizing it from about everything, but editorializes, and has become essentially a public square yet gets to be censorial and propagandistic due to being a private company.

          Time for regulation or stripping of the immunity.

          • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:12PM (6 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:12PM (#999740)

            Wake me up when you call for the same type of measure against Fox and Breitbart.

            Oh that will be never? Ok, crawling back in bed till you idiots die off.

            • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:25PM (5 children)

              by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:25PM (#999817) Journal

              Apparently you slept through the alarm because Fox and Breitbart have no immunity -- they are legally responsible for what they publish. If they defame someone they can be sued. Twitter on the other hand, saves gazillions in legal fees based on an immunity bestowed upon it by Federal legislation, but the other half of that legislation is that it is supposed to merely be a service provider and not engage in editorializing. If Twitter wants to editorialize, that's cool, but it should not also get to keep the immunity a non-editorializing service provider enjoys. Anything else is Twitter getting its cake and eating it too at the expense of Americans.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @09:05PM (4 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @09:05PM (#999918)

                Anyone can be sued for defamation. If Twitter has any protections it is simply that they can not be sued for the words of their users. It is clear from your posts today that you're a little unhinged in the realm of "liberal media elites" and "deep state" style conspiracies. Your opponents are always wrong and you will invent whatever excuse to keep your world view intact.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @10:14PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @10:14PM (#999944)

                  >> Your opponents are always wrong and you will invent whatever excuse to keep your world view intact.

                  Oh, jeez. Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle. You are! No, you are! No, you are!!

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @01:29AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @01:29AM (#1000015)

                    Better than you're whining about people arguing.

                • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:54AM (1 child)

                  by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:54AM (#1000052) Journal
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @06:10PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @06:10PM (#1000223)

                    Sigh, from your own link

                    No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.

                    In analyzing the availability of the immunity offered by Section 230, courts generally apply a three-prong test. A defendant must satisfy each of the three prongs to gain the benefit of the immunity:[9]

                            The defendant must be a "provider or user" of an "interactive computer service."
                            The cause of action asserted by the plaintiff must treat the defendant as the "publisher or speaker" of the harmful information at issue.
                            The information must be "provided by another information content provider," i.e., the defendant must not be the "information content provider" of the harmful information at issue.

                    So yes, if Twitter had included some defamation against Trump they could be sued.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:14PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:14PM (#999742)

            Kick Trump off Twitter.

          • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:41PM (2 children)

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:41PM (#999759) Journal

            Twitter gets the safe harbor treatment immunizing it from about everything, but editorializes, and has become essentially a public square yet gets to be censorial and propagandistic due to being a private company.

            Yep, they get freedom to say, or to not to say, whatever they want. Also know as freedom of speech.

            • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:32PM

              by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:32PM (#999821) Journal

              I have no problem with twitter editorialising and manipulating -- I just have an issue with them doing it on my dime. If they wanna do that stuff, strip the immunity. If they want the immunity, then just be a service provider. They shouldn't get it both ways though.

              https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/08/wikipedia-wins-dismissal-baseless-defamation-claim [eff.org]

              Note that the lawsuit was "baseless" because the law forbids it so long as the service provider is just a service provider.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:41PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:41PM (#999830)

              Commercial speech is not free speech. You and I can legally say "Tide Pods are tasty and nutritious" but a corporation forfeits 1A rights for "communication more likely to deceive the public than to inform it". When a 2005 bipartisan report singled out mail-in ballots and a mail man is arrested for election fraud in the same news cycle, then Twitter were clearly acting to deceive and misinform the public.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @12:38AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @12:38AM (#999993)

        Here is my crappy userscript.

        // ==UserScript==
        // @name        Twitter2Nitter
        // @version     1
        // @grant       none
        // @description Rewrite twitter links to nitter
        // ==/UserScript==

        var e = document.querySelectorAll("a[href*='twitter.com']");

        for(var i=0; i < e.length; i++) {
          e[i].setAttribute('href', e[i].getAttribute('href').replace(/\/\/(www.)?twitter.com/, '//nitter.net'));
        }

        Alternatively:
        A list of Nitter extensions [github.com]
        A list of Nitter instances [github.com]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @01:46AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @01:46AM (#1000020)

          Excellent, Runaway will be almost as relieved as Joe [nitter.net]

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday May 27 2020, @12:54PM (53 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 27 2020, @12:54PM (#999589) Journal

    "Twitter is completely stifling FREE SPEECH, and I, as President, will not allow it to happen!,"

    Errrr... really? President? Wouldn't Chairman, General Secretary or Fuhrer be more appropriate a title just because you want so?

    Look, there's no obligation for a private entity to promote (or not stifle) free speech.
    You want such an obligation, pass a law; I doubt tho' that such a law would pass the constitutionality test or that you will even like the many ways in which such a law can be abused against you.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:02PM (35 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:02PM (#999594)

      My history may be failing me here but were Chairman Mao or der Führer well known for promoting freedom of speech?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:04PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:04PM (#999597)

        My Hitler Youth scout master said Hitler did nothing wrong.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:06PM (24 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:06PM (#999600) Journal

        They were famous for promoting their free speech.
        As it is the present case too.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:18PM (19 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:18PM (#999607)

          That is the argument though, those of higher cognitive ability [psypost.org] understand that by opposing free speech for others they are ultimately censoring themselves.

          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:13PM (14 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:13PM (#999637)

            Is it really a violation of your free speech if, when using a companies assets to communicate, they append a correction to your statement?

            Is it not their free speech right to say, "no, Mr President, you are wrong."

            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:49PM (12 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:49PM (#999667)

              That's been a complaint from the left for a while, "conservatives want to speak without criticism" they say. Here we have a "fact-check" proven wrong the same week by an arrest for election fraud. Indeed, a bipartisan 2005 commission headed by Jimmy Carter concluded "Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud". What remains is that Twitter used their platform to contradict a sitting president and willfully mislead the public when following the president on Twitter is a constitutional right. [reuters.com]

              Twitter should stick their "fact check" as a reply like the legions of full time reply guys already do. A company can't place an incorrect, pseudo-authorative "fact check" on a constitutionally protected tweet and pretend like you're not interfering with freedom of expression. "Congress shall make no law abridging" but the inverse is not true.

              • (Score: 5, Insightful) by VanessaE on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:03PM (11 children)

                by VanessaE (3396) <vanessa.e.dannenberg@gmail.com> on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:03PM (#999676) Journal

                Twitter is not a part of Congress, nor any other branch of the US federal government. There is no law being made here, and Trump has no rights under the First Amendment to force Twitter to publish his remarks. Maybe there's some existing federal law regulating the publication of official presidential communications, but the First is not it, and I highly doubt that law applies to media like Twitter (versus, say, the New York Times).

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:36PM (10 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:36PM (#999701)

                  Twitter is not a part of Congress, nor any other branch of the US federal government.

                  Trump is the sitting president, citizens have a constitutional right to reply to him. Twitter have no explicit right to amend or editorialize his tweets, the Hudson test for "commercial speech" explicitly refers to "communication more likely to deceive the public than to inform it". Twitter and the "fact checkers" represent commercial entities and forfeit constitutional protection when they are wrong (as was the case here). It's very much about the 1st.

                  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:14PM (9 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:14PM (#999743)

                    If only you'd put this much effort into the problem of caging children and the like. Nope, you save it for defending Trump spouting fascist lies. Saddest timeline.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:00PM (8 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:00PM (#999767)

                      If only you'd put this much effort into the problem of caging children and the like.

                      You're referring to the "cages" built by former president Obama in his second term?

                      • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:35PM (6 children)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:35PM (#999782)

                        Bbbbut OBAMA!

                        lol, you fools are losing it so hard. I'm not sure what else to add here, your excuses and arguments have become so pathetic in the last year or so.

                        Anecdotally I think it was around the impeachment hearings. Reality was asserted, and the GOP went full-blown Bond villains. Somewhere in the recesses of your gray matter you know the truth, so this gibbering nonsense is the best your brain can come up with. Shitty attempts at correllation == causation, and other bastardizations of logic and reason. Hell, you can't even hang on to the basic morality of Jesus, so meh to you and your insanity.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:56PM (5 children)

                          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:56PM (#999845)

                          This. The partisan democrat. Blind to the log in his eye.

                          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @09:07PM (3 children)

                            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @09:07PM (#999921)

                            Gaslight
                            Obstruct
                            Project!

                            The idiot's way =)

                            • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @10:37PM (2 children)

                              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @10:37PM (#999951)

                              "Trump caged the kids!!" "Obama caged the kids!!" "There's a log in your eye!!!" "Idiot, fool, gaslighter!!"

                              Two utterly irrelevant neck beards shouting at each other across a picket line.

                              Don't stop- this is fun.

                              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @11:07PM (1 child)

                                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @11:07PM (#999962)

                                I enjoy watching their neck flaps quiver in rage.

                                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @01:31AM

                                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @01:31AM (#1000016)

                                  I thought you were one of those darn kids after me lucky neck meats! They're always after me neck meats dontcha know!

                          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @12:27AM

                            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @12:27AM (#999990)

                            Well I don't know about you idiots but I'm still pretty enthused about electing a female president, so I'll be voting Libertarian this year.... So now that I've established which political party has my vote in November...

                            The D team is laying the groundwork for heavy-handed internet censorship in the name of "correcting the record" or someshit. So that's not good.

                            Then we have the R team building the social base for an actual fascist movement on the one hand (which will give you heavy-handed internet censorship--listen to the Mises Institute), and on the other hand are antics like these that lend legitimacy to the D team's hard-on about controlling social media.

                            Both of you have logs in your eyes. It's why you can't see what the uniparty is doing to you. Heavy-handed internet censorship is coming one way or another. The frog is almost boiled.

                            As a test: what should we do with all that content on the internet that's corrupting our youth and turning them into trannies? Shouldn't we fact-check it? Shouldn't we correct the record?

                            feh

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:18PM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:18PM (#999861)

                        "Thanks, Obamagate!"

            • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:18PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:18PM (#999747)

              You have the right to free speech. You don't have the right to use My megaphone.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:32PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:32PM (#999657)

            Twitter said something about a Trump tweet.

            People seem to be opposed to it.

            So remind me, who are the ones opposing free speech?

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday May 27 2020, @08:09PM (2 children)

              by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @08:09PM (#999890)

              In my younger years, I got to experience a protest where some folks were attempting to drown out a speaker with shouts of "Free Speech! Free Speech!" Apparently, a lot of people have a rule of "MY speech should be free and amplified as loudly as possible, but YOUR speech has to be silenced".

              --
              The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
              • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:30AM (1 child)

                by RS3 (6367) on Thursday May 28 2020, @03:30AM (#1000047)

                Awesome post. I hate the underlying conundrum, but what a great dose of bitter irony. It's pretty much what's going on in society, and each side is getting louder and louder.

                Do they have political parties on Antarctica?

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:40AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @08:40AM (#1000096)

                  You should get out more. The only loud thing around this neighborhood is TVs.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:51PM (3 children)

          by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:51PM (#999717) Journal

          LOL -- you just described Twitter and the way it is moving toward only allowing approved speech.

          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:01PM (2 children)

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:01PM (#999726) Journal

            So what? Twitter is not Trump and Trump is not Twitter.

            Twitter is a private enterprise, you don't like it, you don't use it - if enough are doing it, Twitter will fail. From my side, I can't care other what Twitter does.

            Trump on the other side, is not a private person.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
            • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:58PM (1 child)

              by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:58PM (#999847) Journal

              Why should Twitter be treated as a service provider and get the immunity of the CDA, when it is acting as a publisher? If it wants to be a publisher, that's cool, it should not get the same immunity however that mere service providers do.

              • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:34PM

                by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:34PM (#999874) Journal

                IANAL.
                And neither are you. Whatever we state are opinions, not necessarily related with the reality, so it may very well happen that your premise of "is acting as a publisher" is wrong.

                --
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Tokolosh on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:16PM (4 children)

        by Tokolosh (585) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:16PM (#999639)

        "The policy of letting a hundred flowers bloom and a hundred schools of thought contend is designed to promote the flourishing of the arts and the progress of science". -- Mao Zedong

        • (Score: 3, Touché) by Aegis on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:40PM (1 child)

          by Aegis (6714) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:40PM (#999662)

          Better prohibit Twitter from publishing fact checks, then ,eh? Gotta trim those flowers to protect Trump.

          • (Score: 2) by Tokolosh on Sunday May 31 2020, @03:49PM

            by Tokolosh (585) on Sunday May 31 2020, @03:49PM (#1001392)

            I save this part for later. From Wikipedia: "The first part of the phrase is often remembered as "let a hundred flowers bloom". It is used to refer to an orchestrated campaign to flush out dissidents by encouraging them to show themselves as critical of the regime, and then subsequently imprison them."

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:04PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:04PM (#999677)

          You misunderstand, the blooming flowers were on the graves of those who died thanks to famine, forced labor camps and death quotas.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:20PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:20PM (#999863)

            You forgot death panels, and facemasks.

      • (Score: 2) by Aegis on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:18PM (3 children)

        by Aegis (6714) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:18PM (#999643)

        My history may be failing me here but were Chairman Mao or der Führer well known for promoting freedom of speech?

        He loved free speech, but only for Hitler.

        Hitler says something: Free Speech!i
        Someone say's "that's a lie." Gas Chamber!

        • (Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:00PM (2 children)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:00PM (#999724) Journal

          Free Speech but ONLY for Nazis....

          Want to go protest as a Nazi, Free Speech!
          Want to go protest against Nazis: You're a communist bitch [soylentnews.org] who deserved to die. [soylentnews.org]

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:37PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:37PM (#999826)

            that stupid, fat bolshevik bitch died of a heart attack and the driver of the car was just trying to get away from people who were attacking his car with deadly objects and most of you motherfuckers know it and would rather put an innocent person in jail b/c you don't like his politics and you want to use the lie in your propaganda.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:06PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:06PM (#999852)

              driver of the car was just trying to get away from people who were attacking his car

              If so, why did he not defend himself in court?

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Username on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:11PM (1 child)

      by Username (4557) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:11PM (#999603)

      While back Trump was sued for blocking people on twitter. The judge decided that twitter was a public forum, and Trump could not block access to his tweets based on first amendment grounds.

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Aegis on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:22PM

        by Aegis (6714) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:22PM (#999648)

        The executive branch is not allowed to silence people.

        Twitter did not block the President's tweet, though, so not sure how the comparison is valid.

        Twitter simply exercised their own free speech to call something a lie.

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:13PM (10 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @01:13PM (#999604)

      The obvious solution is to nationalize Twitter. Twitter won't be a private entity anymore. Your precious private entity loophole won't save you.

      • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:34PM (1 child)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:34PM (#999659) Journal

        Good luck with that.

        One wonders... if Twitter is such an essential piece for the public, why the govt didn't invent/setup a "Twitter service"? Isn't that dereliction of duty? (grin)

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @12:46AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @12:46AM (#999996)

          If he were to set up a Mastodon [joinmastodon.org] instance he would probably be blocked by the rest of the federating servers and the apps.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:25PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @03:25PM (#999693)

        How are consercatives so dumb and hypocritical? Seriously, you've lost all personal values and replaced it with the worship of false idols. Double points for much Trump loves gold.

        This shit is almost enough to make me belive in the supernatural, Trump being an actual demon would make more sense than millions of people suddenly becoming obedient morons with no morals.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:05PM

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @04:05PM (#999733) Journal

          They never had any personal values to begin with, it's been lies all along. It's just more obvious now.

          The debt has only ever mattered when Democrats are in charge.
          States Rights are terrible as soon as CA tries to pass emissions controls.

          This is just the inevitable conclusion to their complete divorce from reality.

      • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:09PM (4 children)

        by fyngyrz (6567) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:09PM (#999772) Journal

        The obvious solution is to nationalize Twitter.

        On first glance, the above quoted idea may be perceived as hyperbolic or extreme; but really, Twitter (and Facebook, and Youtube, and several other commercial entities), by virtue of their market penetration, which is extremely thorough, have become de facto public squares.

        Regulating and/or denying speech in what essentially amounts to a public square seem (to me, at least) to strongly resemble an effective and highly unfortunate end-run around the actual intent of US constitutional principles.

        I have no objection to appending commentary to content that presents misleading information (and commentary to that commentary, and so on as far down the rabbit hole as anyone cares to dig); but editing, and/or regulating, and/or denying the ability to post... that strikes me as a trip well down the wrong road.

        I understand that as a commercial entity, they (presently) have no obligation to allow what amounts to free speech; but you know, perhaps they really should be subject to such an obligation.

        I'd prefer just seeing the law changed so that censorship and access limitations are both forbidden to commercial entities maintaining forums that present user-generated content, rather than having them nationalized... but the latter is still preferable, in my view, to what is going on now.

        WRT earlier comments about moderation here, I tend to agree — moderation should exist and be visible, it's a form of commentary at that level, but I don't think user X's moderation should serve to hide user Y's post from user Z. If you want to block someone from your own view, that seems perfectly fine. But blocking them from someone else's... that really never did strike me as a good idea. It's far too attractive as a punitive enterprise for inappropriate reasons. If moderators were all honest, aboveboard, critical thinkers, and consistent, well, that'd be something else. But that is not the reality at all.

        --
        Even Chuck Norris stays off my lawn.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:16PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @05:16PM (#999775)

          I understand that as a commercial entity, they (presently) have no obligation to allow what amounts to free speech; but you know, perhaps they really should be subject to such an obligation.

          The phone company is a commercial entity that can't discriminate on a customer's political beliefs.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @12:51AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @12:51AM (#999998)

            True but I'll get a restraining order if you keep calling me with your dumb arguments, Richard!

        • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:11PM (1 child)

          by ilPapa (2366) on Wednesday May 27 2020, @06:11PM (#999807) Journal

          On first glance, the above quoted idea may be perceived as hyperbolic or extreme; but really, Twitter (and Facebook, and Youtube, and several other commercial entities), by virtue of their market penetration, which is extremely thorough, have become de facto public squares.

          No, they have not. If a public square is privately-owned, guess what? It's not a fucking public square.

          --
          You are still welcome on my lawn.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:22PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:22PM (#999864)

            If it's a private space then the owners set the rules and become liable for the behavior of their guests, including but not limited to Twitter's disgusting "MAPCommunity".

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @01:21AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 28 2020, @01:21AM (#1000010)

        If Trump is mad a Twitter why doesn't he just go use MySpace?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:36PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @02:36PM (#999660)

      FREE SPEECH, and I, as President, will not allow it to happen!

      I'm still waiting for the moment when all those 2nd-amendment zealots start defending the first amendment with equal zeal.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:02PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:02PM (#999850)

        You're behind the times. Those who support the 2A are far more likely to support them all these days. It's Democrats who are doing the picking and choosing.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:24PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 27 2020, @07:24PM (#999865)

          Go fucking clean your AR! It's filthy! What is all that goo all over it?

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 29 2020, @08:06AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 29 2020, @08:06AM (#1000452)

          Odd, because many second amendment supporters support the NSA's mass surveillance, the endless wars, the drug war, the TSA, etc. So do many Democrats, but merely supporting the second amendment doesn't make you a libertarian, that's for sure.

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