The CHAZ Has Become America's Fascination
The Stranger describes it as an "anti-capitalist police-free Vatican City inside Capitol Hill." The New York Times deems it "part street festival, part commune." President Donald Trump alludes to it, via tweet, as a bastion for "anarchists" who "must be stooped [sic]."
Seemingly overnight, the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone—or, "the CHAZ," as everyone's calling it—has become a local and national fascination. It was only Monday that the Seattle Police Department loaded up trucks and ditched the East Precinct at 12th and Pine, the site of tear gas-clouded confrontations between officers and Black Lives Matter-inspired protesters in the days after the Minneapolis police killing of George Floyd. Protesters have since barricaded and transformed a cluster of city blocks into a mostly peaceful enclave of free food, face coverings, resistance art, educational town halls, and even some live music. Seattle Police Department chief Carmen Best says she's heard of armed people patrolling the area and businesses having to pay "protection" fees, but as of this writing, no formal police reports related to either situation have been filed.
At a time when cities are mulling the defunding and, in a few cases, abolition of their police departments, some people might be looking at Seattle's police-free movement with a mix of amusement and genuine curiosity: Is this communal version of the American experiment a blip, or is it a preview of what's to come in other population hubs this summer? For many, however, the questions are more fundamental: How long will the CHAZ (or the People's Republic of Capitol Hill, or Free Cap Hill, depending on your sign preference) stick around? And what are its aims?
Raz Simone, a local rapper, has apparently taken a leading role in declaring a several-block area of a residential Seattle neighborhood to be an independent revolutionary state called the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (The CHAZ). Simone and a few friends, armed with several guns and a megaphone, have declared themselves the new police. He came to national attention on Wednesday when a video of him assaulting someone over graffiti came to light online.
[...] The president tweeted Wednesday and Thursday morning that the area has been taken over by a "Terrorist Warlord" and "Domestic Terrorists."
See also: The Future of Capitol Hill's New Autonomous Zone Is Predictable
Businesses Extorted? Armed Checkpoints on Capitol Hill? Yes, and Also Mercer Island Is for Sale
An Exceedingly Chill Day at the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
Related Stories
Fox News published digitally altered and misleading photos on stories about Seattle's Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ) in what photojournalism experts called a clear violation of ethical standards for news organizations.
As part of a package of stories Friday about the zone, where demonstrators have taken over several city blocks on Capitol Hill after Seattle police abandoned the East Precinct, Fox's website for much of the day featured a photo of a man standing with a military-style rifle in front of what appeared to be a smashed retail storefront.
The image was actually a mashup of photos from different days, taken by different photographers — it was done by splicing a Getty Images photo of an armed man, who had been at the protest zone June 10, with other images from May 30 of smashed windows in downtown Seattle. Another altered image combined the gunman photo with yet another image, making it appear as though he was standing in front of a sign declaring "You are now entering Free Cap Hill."
[...] The image, as displayed on the Fox News website, was spliced with other photos, including a photo of a smashed retail storefront in May, making it look as though the scene was all playing out concurrently in the autonomous zone. "It is definitely Photoshopped," confirmed Ryder. "To use a photo out of context in a journalistic setting like that seems unethical."
[...] "I think it's disgraceful propaganda and terribly misrepresentative of documentary journalism in times like this, when truth-telling and accountability is so important," said Kenny Irby, a photojournalism ethics educator and consultant. "There is no attribution. There is no acknowledgment of the montage, and it's terribly misleading."
Akili Ramsess, executive director of the National Press Photographers Association (NPPA), said ethical standards clearly prohibit alteration of photos in news accounts.
Previously:
(2020-06-12) Seattle's Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ)
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @05:37PM (3 children)
There's a Harry Potter marathon on the SyFy channel.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @05:39PM (2 children)
Can't wait for the South Park episodes about this clusterfuck of a circus.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:58PM (1 child)
There will be many cheering, and there will be some who fear.
Both these emotions are useful, but not too much of either.
We are undertaking the most tremendous move ever made by LABOR in this country, a move which will lead
- NO ONE KNOWS WHERE!
We do not need hysteria.
We need the iron march of labor.
LABOR WILL FEED THE PEOPLE.
Twelve great kitchens have been offered, and from them food will be distributed by the provision trades at low cost to all.
LABOR WILL CARE FOR THE BABIES AND THE SICK.
The milk-wagon drivers and the laundry drivers are arranging plans for supplying milk to babies, invalids and hospitals, and taking care of the cleaning of linen for hospitals.
LABOR WILL PRESERVE ORDER.
The strike committee is arranging for guards, and it is expected that the stopping of the cars will keep people at home.
A few hot-headed enthusiasts have complained that strikers only should be fed, and the general public left to endure severe discomfort. Aside from the inhumanitarian character of such suggestions, let them get this straight -
NOT THE WITHDRAWAL OF LABOR POWER, BUT THE POWER OF THE WORKERS TO MANAGE WILL WIN THIS STRIKE.
What does Mr. Piez of the Shipping Board care about the closing down of Seattle’s shipyards, or even of all the industries of the northwest. Will it not merely strengthen the yards at Hog Island, in which he is more interested?
When the shipyard owners of Seattle were on the point of agreeing with the workers, it was Mr. Piez who wired them that, if they so agreed -
HE WOULD NOT LET THEM HAVE STEEL.
Whether this is camouflage we have no means of knowing. But we do know that the great eastern combinations of capitalists COULD AFFORD to offer privately to Mr. Skinner, Mr. Ames and Mr. Duthie a few millions apiece in eastern shipyard stock,
RATHER THAN LET THE WORKERS WIN.
The closing down of Seattle’s industries, as a MERE SHUTDOWN, will not affect these eastern gentlemen much. They could let the whole northwest go to pieces, as far as money alone is concerned.
BUT, the closing down of the capitalistically controlled industries of Seattle, while the WORKERS ORGANIZE to feed the people, to care for the babies and the sick, to preserve order - THIS will move them, for this looks too much like the taking over of POWER by the workers.
Labor will not only SHUT DOWN the industries, but Labor will REOPEN; under the management of the appropriate trades, such activities as are needed to preserve public heath and public peace. If the strike continues, Labor may feel led to avoid public suffering by reopening more and more activities,
UNDER ITS OWN MANAGEMENT.
And that is why we say that we are starting on a road that leads - NO ONE KNOWS WHERE!
(Anna Louise Strong, February 4th, 1919 [marxists.org])
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by khallow on Saturday June 13 2020, @04:41AM
(Score: 3, Disagree) by UncleSlacky on Friday June 12 2020, @05:49PM (29 children)
Relevant Existential Comics: https://i.redd.it/ndhaniyx4a451.jpg [i.redd.it]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday June 12 2020, @05:57PM (22 children)
Legitimacy of government goes hand-in-hand with a monopoly on violence.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Friday June 12 2020, @06:14PM (21 children)
The government doesn't have a monopoly on violence. They simply have a much larger supply of it in stock.
The thing about landline phones is that they never get lost. No air tag necessary.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Thexalon on Friday June 12 2020, @07:02PM (19 children)
In general, the more the government has the support of the people they're governing, the less they rely on or even have a supply of violence.
For instance, in Norway, cops basically never kill people, the government there abolished the death penalty a long time ago, and while they have a military and a defense strategy they've been at peace ever since they kicked the Nazis out. And one reason they don't have to use force much at all is that Norwegians are regularly in the running for the happiest and best-off people on the planet, and their government is on average quite responsive to their people's demands, so they can use the "carrot" approach rather than the "stick" approach for controlling their population to the degree that they need to.
By contrast, in Nicaragua, the government is routinely "disappearing" and killing its own citizens without trial, and that kind of thing has been common for decades. And one reason they have to use force a great deal to maintain control over their area is that the situation in Nicaragua has sucked for a very long time, and the government routinely ignores the peoples' demands while lining its own pockets, so they only have the "stick" approach for controlling their population.
The US is somewhere between those two, and what experience of the US government you get depends on a lot of factors, most of which are completely out of your control.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @07:32PM
Tropical Fish: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Orange-lined_Triggerfish3.jpg/1024px-Orange-lined_Triggerfish3.jpg [wikimedia.org]
North Atlantic Fish: http://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/5634851/il_fullxfull.231280060.jpg [etsystatic.com]
Arctic Fish: http://www.arcodiv.org/Fish.html [arcodiv.org]
Notice anything? That this fish get less colorful and more practical as you move north and food becomes less prevalent?
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @07:52PM (12 children)
Nicaragua didn't end up being a hell hole on its own. The disappearances, torture and death squads were initiated by and supported by Ronald Reagan and his administration. Nearby in Guatemala, "Reagan the Butcher" sponsored a genocide against the indigenous. Reagan's administration also illegally closed the border to the fleeing Guatemalan refugees-- deporting them without a hearing. Sometimes the refugees were executed on the tarmac of the airport immediately after the US planes deporting the refuges were unloaded. Reagan was responsible for the displacement, torture, rape and murder of millions of innocent people including many many children.
It is good to put a face to evil. The revisionist history that Reagan's supporters are peddling needs to be countered-- most people who were not alive in the 80s are unaware of Reagan's crimes (the above is just a tiny subset of his crimes).
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Saturday June 13 2020, @12:35AM (10 children)
Reagan didn't start the School of the Americas [wikipedia.org]. The horrible Republicans Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman did. The SoA trained officers from Latin American countries, several of whom went on to stage coups in their home countries and set themselves up as dictators. The United States tolerated that as long as participants were anti-communist.
The Cold War was going on at the time. The fear of communist infiltration and subversion of countries around the world was real. The Domino Theory it was called. It was not a purely American obsession, either. NATO was tightly bound together to defend against the Warsaw Pact. The Five Eyes, and other alliances, did likewise in different spheres of the world.
So, since it was a war, people died. It was mostly proxy wars fought in client states, but people on both sides died. Yes, even in Central America.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @03:42AM
Supporting fascists because they're on your side means you need to reevaluate your decisions and ideology, not that it's OK because communists.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Joe Desertrat on Saturday June 13 2020, @03:45AM (5 children)
Was the "fear" real? It seems to me it was always just another manufactured scapegoat used to justify the funneling of vast sums of money to supposedly fight this. Make no mistake, none of that money went to help struggling people. Democracy was certainly never the goal, Democratically elected governments in Chile and Iran were overthrown ostensibly because they were led by or partnered with communists. If there was fear, it was entirely based on fear of communist success. That is why we continue to have punishing economic policies in place with countries like Cuba and Venezuela, if they are to succeed they will have to overcome a great deal of negative bias first to do so.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Saturday June 13 2020, @12:14PM (1 child)
Yes, it was. Countries around the world were falling to communist revolutions. Stalin murdered tens of millions of his own people [wikipedia.org]. Mao murdered tens of millions of his own people [wikipedia.org]. The Khmer Rouge murdered millions of their own people [wikipedia.org] (one quarter of their population at the time). The Comintern was constituted and funded by the Soviet Union and its allies to foment further revolution and death around the world. The Soviets put missile bases on Cuba to enable a first strike against the US before the US could react.
There were Western oil companies that advocated for Mossadegh's removal out of greed and self-interest, but there was also a larger strategic concern that allowing the Soviet Union to draw in Iran as a client state would endanger the oil supply from the entire Middle East, a key strategic concern then, and now. Cuba and Venezuela are vestiges of the Monroe Doctrine and the Cold War struggle to keep communist influence out of the Western Hemisphere. You may disagree with those reasons, but they are real reasons that can engender real fear. Of course, if you are a communist the idea of brutally murdering millions of your fellow citizens is not a bug, but a feature, right?
Those are just a handful of the hard facts that entirely justify fear. If you're old enough to have lived through the Cold War, shame on you for whitewashing what communism is and has done. If you're too young to have experienced it, go back to a real school and get a real education on modern history.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @06:21PM
maybe by the lower level people(like presidents), but at the very top of the pyramid, it's the same people running the communists and the capitalist states, funding both sides of the wars and maneuverings between them.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @06:17PM (2 children)
On top of the peer comment here I'd also suggest observing what happened to the nations in question. Communism is a very appealing ideology for many people because it promises basically you can get everything for free and that no man need ever go without. But the actual implementation of it is probably simply impossible. That's not because of complexity but because it requires everybody (or at least the majority of people) to play their role more or less selflessly. And we're just not wired to work that way on a large scale. Some of the self sustaining hippy commune projects are awesome, but there's a huge difference between a dozen or two super ideologically/ethically/morally/etc homogeneous folks working together in a tiny environment and this working on a scale with hundreds of millions of people, invariably with many of whom will end up disliking other subgroups for whatever reasons.
But this makes communism very dangerous because the promise is so appealing, but the cost is extensive only to ultimately culminate in failure. Russia's success, then and now, in various technical fields such as rocket science, mathematics, etc emphasizes that they have some of the best minds on this planet but their country has not really developed in accordance with that. And I think a big part of that is because they spent nearly a century under communism which severely retarded their country's economic and industrial development. There's a joke from the old Soviet Union - The capitalists may have the biggest skyscrapers, but we have the biggest transistors!
It's the same deal now a days except that our government has become completely devoid of any ethics. Imagine either party was given a magic deal where they'd be guaranteed to have a majority and the presidency for the next 20 years if they let all rapists out of prison immediately. Would either reject such a deal? I very much doubt it. It's all become so extremely Machiavellian. And so even if the politicians understand behind the scenes that e.g. communism may likely lead to collapse of the US, they'll never oppose it if they can think it's politically beneficial.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @06:36PM (1 child)
Eh, I don't think you can consider the economic system as a sole reason for collapse. The US has always used economic means such as trade embargoes and sanctions against any communist country they couldn't overthrow through force alone. Would Vietnam or Cuba be in the situation they are today without US embargoes and constant interference?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday June 13 2020, @11:28PM
Creating nations of slaves is another reason for the collapse.
Sure would.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @04:02AM (2 children)
WTF are you smoking boy? Pure acid? Did you mean Teddy Roosevelt maybe? FDR was famously a DEMOCRAT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt [wikipedia.org] Although to be fair, today's Democratic party is almost nothing like the 1930s Democrats.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday June 13 2020, @12:15PM
It was a rhetorical inversion meant to emphasize that they were NOT Republicans. The School of Americas was started by Democrats. The parent was laying all of it at Reagan's door, which is historically incorrect.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @06:23PM
you're an idiot.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday June 13 2020, @06:09PM
The current Nicaraguan death squads are being run by Daniel Ortega, who was mostly a fighter against the Reagan death squads. And while I absolutely agree that Nicaragua didn't get this way on its own (and the history of US military interventions and coups there goes back to long before the 1980's), I also hold him responsible for his actions.
What is absolutely true is that *every* poor country has had a period of European or American colonization, and generally have their resources taken from them at discount prices with the threat of a US-backed invasion or coup to back up the multinationals. And invariably, the US has preferred fascist dictatorships over left-leaning democracies: Recent US targets in Latin America for electing leaders with the "wrong" policies include Brazil, Venezuela, Bolivia, and Honduras, to varying degrees of success.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by istartedi on Friday June 12 2020, @07:53PM (2 children)
You're Comparing countries near the poles with countries near the equator [cnn.com]. Anecdotally I've always noticed that the hot spots tend to be "hot spots", and it looks like there might be some science to back that up.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 1, Disagree) by istartedi on Saturday June 13 2020, @05:20PM (1 child)
Mods on crack. Remember, there is no "disagree" mod, and this is most certainly not "off topic". If you disagree, don't mod. Comment.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 2) by istartedi on Sunday June 14 2020, @12:00AM
What? Really? Soylent devs added a disagree mod. Not sure if I like that or not, but at least it's appropriate moderation this time.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Saturday June 13 2020, @12:21PM (1 child)
You cited Norway, Thexalon, so it's mete to point out that a lot of Norway's social spending is funded by North Sea oil. When you're flush with oil money you don't need to use the stick at all. Historically Norwegians were a lot meaner before oil came along. They used sticks and many other implements a lot.
Norwegians are not constitutionally kinder or gentler than others.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday June 17 2020, @05:56PM
I never claimed Norwegians were never mean - of course they were, from the Viking Era to when they tried to hold off the Nazi invasion in early WW II. I said their government doesn't need to use much violence today, and it's in no small part because the government has been using its money to fund social programs that Norwegians like.
You can say the same thing about Sweden, which doesn't have the same oil revenues but has a similarly happy population, and it seems to be the result of the government fulfilling John Locke social contract theory. Swedish political leaders routinely go about their lives without being surrounded by bodyguards, for instance.
Oil money alone isn't enough to make the difference, unless Saudi Arabia turned into a democratic paradise when I wasn't looking.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @07:34PM
They have a monopoly on *legitimate* violence. Where legitimate means whatever is condoned by the community, ie is not necessarily good. They can also perform illegitimate violence as well.
Also, the term "aggression" would be better than "violence".
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:39PM (5 children)
Do people really think this is what happens, like at all?
Here [twitter.com] is a slightly more realistic clip of what happens when you get into anarchy. For those who don't like watching Twitter clips - it's a video of the now self declared 'warlord' of the CHAZ trying to get somebody to stop spraying graffiti on the home of some guy who's aligned with them. The "artist" ignores them, so the new-found CHAZ law enforcement become violent. Isn't ironic, don't you think?
And that's within just a matter of days with a group that's about as ideologically homogeneous as you can get. This [zerohedge.com] one directly relates to your comic: "ALERT#2: the homeles people we invited took away all the food at the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone. we need more food to keep the area operation. please if possible bring vegan meat substitutes, fruits, oats, soy products, etc. - anything to help us eat". It's a copy of a Tweet since the guy has since set his account [twitter.com] to followers only, but he's very much a part of their organization.
Now imagine a 'CHAZ' that had hundreds of millions of people, many of whom *really* *really* didn't get along. Welcome to what a country is, and it's absolutely remarkable how peaceful we've remained, for the most part. It doesn't take much for society to descend into anarchy - there are only 3 police per 1000 people. And anarchy is not some place you want to go. It's not a peaceful flourishing commune - it's a violent power vacuum where the next government is decided not by vote but by force. After all, all a government really is is the group who has a monopoly on violence.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by meustrus on Friday June 12 2020, @10:15PM (2 children)
Yup, that's what happens in every revolution. Running a government is hard.
Thing is, revolution happens. Especially when a large number of people start to feel like trying their chances in a revolution. We all know revolutions are dangerous. Sometimes it's the least dangerous option.
Rather than point out the obvious flaws of revolution, maybe we should be more responsive to the people before they start revolting.
Of course, if the protests were always peaceful, always orderly, always deferential to the authorities, then the authorities could simply ignore them indefinitely.
We should want the threat of revolution to be ever-present in the minds of the ruling class. They'll figure out how to run a better government, but only if the alternative is CHAZ.
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @11:53PM (1 child)
Really? You WANT that? Are you welcoming a counterrevolution?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @03:46AM
I'm pretty sure we could do the same thing where I live, and it would work, because I don't live in the middle of a concrete wasteland. Not sure if it's a great system for places that produce nothing "real".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @06:27PM
You mean "chaos", not "anarchy". "Self rule" does not necessarily mean "chaos", even if it sometimes can be.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday June 13 2020, @11:39PM
The ideological extremes actually get pretty diverse. But of course, there's plenty of other reasons for interests to diverge than ideology. Not every ideology is equipped to deal with divergence of interest.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday June 12 2020, @05:55PM (9 children)
To steal a comment posted somewhere else, "Mommy is letting the kids build their pillow fort before Daddy comes home and sends them to their rooms."
But such freecloud-style anarchist paradises have existed before. A good example was the Kowloon Walled City [wikipedia.org] and you can see it every day in the favelas of Brazil (want power to your new shanty? Pay Joao a few bucks to tap off the nearest power line).
If it weren't so damn inconvenient to everybody around them I'd actually find a perverse pleasure in seeing how this social experiment plays out. I think it'll end like in the movie Pinocchio where all the boys on pleasure island start literally turning into jackasses. Better Seattle than San Diego.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:08PM
https://twitter.com/icanhazaspergrs/status/1271103852151013377 [twitter.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:15PM (2 children)
North Park is San Diego's CHAZ.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday June 12 2020, @06:37PM (1 child)
Total horseshit. The closest you're gonna get is East Village, maybe Barrio Logan.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14 2020, @11:36PM
Heeyyyy, you got EF quaking in his boots. He is super duper scared some hippies will start enjoying themselves and spreading their message of condemnation for people like him RIGHT outside his own DOOR!
We're comin' for ya EF, you're gonna have to watch people having a good time while condemning your shitty world view. What a gift for Sunday, God must have taken on some overtime ;)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:12PM (2 children)
Neat that you mentioned Kowloon. Interesting to note, the Triads operated in Kowloon and kept order. They were in effect the police, and didn't just police Kowloon, collect protection money, and conduct drug trafficking operations. Social programs existed, and they were operating places caring for the old and disabled. Documentaries on Kowloon often mention government like services that organically emerged from the people.
In the absence of government and police, a hybrid developed between organized crime and socially progressive government.
-- 791
(Score: 4, Touché) by darkfeline on Friday June 12 2020, @10:37PM (1 child)
I'm confused, what's the difference between organized crime which occasionally provides social services and a government?
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @11:01PM
Federal, State, Local, or Mafia tax... All the same.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @10:05PM (1 child)
Also the Paris Commune [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by driverless on Saturday June 13 2020, @02:52AM
That was the Parisian rabble, that's going to end badly no matter how they're organised. Have them sit under a tree singing kumbayah and within a day they'll be lynching people for singing out of tune.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @05:58PM (35 children)
This renewed BLM thing won't amount to much.
The US is still sharply divided tribal fashion, and armed populace means cops gonna continue "warrior" cops.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Friday June 12 2020, @06:27PM (19 children)
"Still"
There is a certain political movement which is making everything worse. Things were improving until Identity Politics really took over. Seriously, the endgame of Identity Politics is race war. That's what you get when you divide people up by skin color and say those with color RxGxBx are all angels and those with RyGyBy are all devils. Eventually, even those who don't buy the Identity Politics bullshit are going to have to choose to either be a subjugated boot licker or team up with their color. Equality is not an option. It's the most brain dead movement ever and so illogical -- Identity Politics is the source code for white nationalist groups ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity [wikipedia.org] ) -- and it seems the woke left is totally buying into that whole framework. These are the some of the dumbest morons to ever exist.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:58PM (8 children)
It is a helpful movement. It helps you identify idiocy and the weaknesses of centralized platforms.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @07:56PM (7 children)
But, we already knew hemo was an idiocy?
OK, Boomer!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Friday June 12 2020, @09:05PM (6 children)
Keep going. Right now I'm a common formulation of GenX liberal (*) with a lot of disappointment in the old (Boomer) and new (Millennial) hippies who've moved from merely annoying woowooshit into fanning the flames of racial division and tribal war, but if you want to make me an enemy rather than listen to valid criticism -- if you want to force me to choose a side -- then don't be surprised if I don't choose your side because when I do the math, when I look at cancel culture and all the rest, the woke left looks way more dangerous than your average Republican (and the ones I know, are not the social issue dinosaurs you lot try to make them out to be).
So you can take your pussy hats, your knitting wars, your Raz Simones, your suppression of speech, your twitter mobs getting people fired for wrongThink -- and just stuff it where the sun don't shine.
(*) pro-freedom, pro-gay rights, pro-choice, atheist, anti-war, anti-surveillance state, equality for all -- probably not the majority of GenX but not rare -- the type who once subscribed to Skeptical Inquirer and such.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @12:04AM (1 child)
Looks like all your beliefs are right there on the "far-right" Libertarian political platform [lp.org]. Probably the Green platform [gp.org] as well.
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Saturday June 13 2020, @03:13AM
I've voted both Green and Libertarian, more Green. I do part ways with the woke-left and the libertarians/greens on open borders.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @04:56AM (3 children)
Cancel culture is a nonsense phrase, that is called "freedom of association." If some business no longer wants anything to do with some asshole that is not your business to decide whether their choice is right or wrong.
Suppression of speech? Please cite these instances of people being prevented from publishing their opinions. All I see are platforms enforcing their terms of service for PR reasons. I don't always agree, but their freedom to moderate their own platforms is their own. Amazing how these protestations only manifest when conservatives are getting the axe. Never heard such complaints from you during other such instances of institutions biased against minorities/gays/etc.
You claim to be a GenX liberal, however you're only getting bent out of shape now that bigots are getting booted from platforms. What about all the minorities jailed unjustly? Non hetero sexuality harassed? These are still real issues. Did you protest the kids in cages? Cause that is 100% more of an issue than some racist assholes losing their twitter account, or getting fired for being hateful pricks.
Maybe you should research the paradox of tolerating the intolerant. As long as Constitutional rights are not violated there is no problem, just angry assholes trying to stir up righteous anger for terrible reasons.
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Saturday June 13 2020, @10:04AM
Well, I never voted for Obama. First time because I didn't believe he was the peace candidate he claimed to be. Second time because he proved he was the warmonger I thought he would be. Nor did I vote for Trump. So yeah, I've never voted for kids in cages.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @06:32PM (1 child)
oh now the Bolsheviks believe in freedom of association? what about anti-discrimination, affirmative action laws?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14 2020, @11:42PM
I've never been a big fan of those either, but until we fix some of the other systemic issues they really don't bother me. There is very little impact on "white" people, other policies like H1B visas and outsourcing are way bigger so go yell at some "kings of capitalism" and advocate for worker protections and then we can talk.
Til then you're just another conservative hypocrite.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @11:07PM (8 children)
Are you fucking kidding me? Identity politics was created by racist fucks now called Republicans. YOU have been the ones using identity politics to demonize the black community, virtue signal so hard that only Christians have a chance in politics. Segregation was the ultimate identity politics you twisted fuck, and the systemic racism in the US has always been about identity politics. Affirmative action was required just to give minorities a chance at success because ASSHOLES like YOU would discriminate against them while telling yourself all sorts of pretty little lies to hide that bias you so desperately don't want to acknowledge.
The real identity politics is when the color of your skin determines your chances of SURVIVING a police encounter. Police brutality has been around for a loooong time, you old fucks are only just recently starting to realize that the black community was not exaggerating in the slightest. Assholes LIKE YOU downplayed their plight, pretended it was their own fault, pretended that the systemic racism and abuse since slaves were freed has not been THE driving factor behind their community problems.
Nixon, Reagan, and even Clinton WAGED WAR on the black community, flooded them with drugs, flooded their communities with racist and abusive police.
You fucking twats think the PC movement is to blame? Hell no, that is just an excuse to make your anger and bigotry feel justified. I'm not saying you are a racist, but when you nod your head to the reporter saying how terrible the black person was, what a drug dealing criminal they were and that is why the cops ended up MURDERING them, well then you become complicit and guilty.
This is really fucking simple stuff, but you FUCKING PRICKS refuse to open your GOD DAMNED BRAINS to the truth and keep hiding behind whatever helps you maintain your psychological status quo.
Go watch the videos of Eric Garner, George Floyd, and Philando Castile being murdered without cause.
And here you say "choose to either be a subjugated boot licker or team up with their color" like the most ignorant asshole in the room? Thanks for trying to start a race war you piece of shit cock sucking conservative dipshit. Ex liberal my ass, you race baiting fuck. I can't believe you have the gall to try and inspire a race war while crying about how it is someone else's fault. You're truly a piece of shit, but I'll gladly retract my opinions if you can open that narrow minded brain of yours and realize what an ass you're being.
Black Lives Matter.
If that statement makes you upset then you are a bigoted moron, full stop.
(Score: 1, Troll) by hemocyanin on Friday June 12 2020, @11:35PM (4 children)
Back in 2016 when I was at the Democrat County Convention as a Bernie delegate from my precinct, I remember a point when the organizers were divvying up some sort of position and they were saying stuff like "we need X females, Y peoples of color, preferably female, also need Z indigenous" blah blah blah -- you really don't understand how divisive and ugly that looks do you? As if the sum total of our worth can be summed up by skin color and whether you have an innie or outie between your legs.
You also forgot to include how Obama's bailing out of the banksters and stomping of the people in the financial meltdown, had a big impact on black home ownership rates.
Anyway, I'm not an "ex liberal" -- my views have remained the same -- but the danger I see to unity, equality, opportunity, prosperity and peace, comes more from the woke left. Given that, I'm sure as heck not voting for you lot or anyone adjacent, and though usually I vote 3d party and my conscience, it is starting to make sense to vote lesser evil and actively vote for your direct opponents. It's a really gross place to be, but that's where we are at.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @01:44AM (3 children)
Nice crafted persona, now fuck off you disingenuous dog whistling twat.
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Saturday June 13 2020, @02:58AM (2 children)
Winning hearts and minds yeah? You should include a trump donation link to make it even easier.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @10:16PM (1 child)
Lovely, your response to the hard truth is a threat?
We already have all the hearts and minds we need. Now if only we could fix all the electoral processes the Republicans have subverted then democracy could actually work.
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Sunday June 14 2020, @12:37AM
Threat? It's self defense.
You come from a tribe that is destroying people's lives over the most ridiculous things. You scream and swear, call everyone racists and nazis, accept weird shit on blind faith and crusade against others who point that out. Yes, you are dangerous. Yes, that means I may make temporary alliance with those who are less dangerous. I doubt I'm the only one, but keep screaming and burning (figuratively and literally) and don't be surprised if people give you the reputation you deserve.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @06:54PM (2 children)
I admit my bias in private matters, including enterprise, and at the same time i don't support unfair, and unconstitutional excuses for state violence and oppression like the illegal drug war and the prison industrial complex that profits from it. I would rather live in an ethno-region/limited state, but that doesn't mean i support unfair actions towards other races in this current multicultural carcass of a nation. Politicians and business people of my own race are largely to blame for the problems my race faces, not other much less influential people. The descendants of African slaves that were brought here against their will and who prefer to live among their own should be given free passage back home and/or given their own state on the continent, perhaps with a non-agression and mutual protection pacts offered. Al Sharpton says "let us succeed or fail, but get the boot off our neck"? i agree, as long as they get their straw out of our smoothy, as well. Give parts of the southwest to the Mexicans who have all but reconquered it through breeding. Have one region for people who actually want to live in a multicultural USA. I don't think the international criminals that run the world will let the remaining Aryan people have an ethnostate without a fight, but if something isn't done soon, race war/civil war will break out in the USA and China will own the west coast of the USA and Canada.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @08:41PM (1 child)
LMFAO. White is not a race. It's a skin color. Are you Iranian? Why the hell are you calling yourself Aryan then? Go back to Germany and join AfD, GTFO of the melting pot if you don't like it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14 2020, @06:07PM
No, i'm not from Iran you retarded fuck. I am racially related to the Aryans that remain there. Caucasoid->Aryan branch. (Last i checked the Cultural Marxists at Wikipedia haven't censored that info yet. You can go read it for yourself.) This is what is commonly referred to as white. It can be both a skin color and a designation for a specific race. It's called a "word" and words can have more than one meaning.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Saturday June 13 2020, @04:44AM
Yep, those racist fuckwits whose entire ideology IS identity politics are going to get us all killed!
(Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 12 2020, @06:45PM
Big majorities support protests over Floyd killing and say police need to change, poll finds [washingtonpost.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:48PM (13 children)
BLM outed themselves in a rather overt way. This [blacklivesmatter.com] is their site. Go click on donate. It takes you straight to an Act Blue page that sends your money straight to Act Blue charities. Act Blue charities are little more than political organizations to get DNC candidates elected. Sending money to BLM is literally no different than sending it to the DNC.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @07:31PM (7 children)
Right. And that's a surprise because?
The GOP has become the party of white supremacists.
Are all Republicans white supremacists? No.
That said, if you're going to make common cause (and the leader of your party employing a white supremacist [independent.co.uk] definitely counts as making common cause) with such people, that makes you at least appear to be complicit.
If you're a Republican and not a hateful, racist bigot, why do you support such folks?
I'd point out that while allowing folks to express their views, as repugnant as they might be, is a time-honored tradition which should be applauded and supported.
However, bringing such folks into paid, influential positions in your political machinery and using their rhetoric to obtain/maintain power isn't simply allowing them their free speech rights -- it's implicitly supporting that point of view.
As such, it's absolutely no surprise that folks who are fighting racist behaviors don't support the major political party that *welcomes* those who advocate such policies.
And that, in a nutshell, is why BLM folks aren't supporting the GOP. That's not so hard to understand, is it?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:06PM (1 child)
Not a republican, but knowledgeable about electoral mathematics.
The current electoral system in the USA heavily favours two large, broad-based parties. What they call big tents.
Aside from a few fringe groups, and the utterly disaffected or disenfranchised, everyone is going to fit somewhere into these two big tents.
Racists of various stripes will fit into one or the other. It used to be the democrats, then the republicans, now some of each. Various forms of economic insanity crawl under the tentflaps of each.
Or did you want to hear a colonoscopy result of the democrats? I'm sure that would entertain somebody.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:15PM
Yes. I do. I'm all about transparency, especially WRT elected officials, regardless of party affiliation.
I was actually pretty heartened to see that Steve King was defeated in his primary [axios.com]. That's some progress.
You'll note that I did *not* say that all Republicans were racists. In fact, I said just the opposite.
I said that it was unsurprising that BLM folks overwhelmingly support the Ds and explained why I thought so.
Do you disagree with that assessment? If so, why?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Saturday June 13 2020, @12:45AM (3 children)
The Democrats have re-taken the crown as the racists in chief. All these police killings, all the segregation, all of it is happening in deep, deep blue cities where nary a Republican is to be found, and it has been that way for 50 years. Sure, the Democrats will sing up and down all day long about how much they CARE about minorities, how SORRY they are for their privilege, and then they turn around and pass an ordinance or re-zoning that strips minorities of all they need materially to find their footing and advance. They think that as long as they say it with double extra feeling that they'll fool the minorities into continuing to vote for them.
Very sadly, they have been right.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @01:46AM (1 child)
"deep blue cities where nary a Republican is to be found"
You need to get out more
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday June 15 2020, @05:35AM
I have lived in Brooklyn for 20 years. Where do you think I need to "get out more" to?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @03:10AM
Rudy Guiliani and Michael Bloomberg would disagree.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @04:49AM
Hello? All of these places where this nonsense are happening are, for the most part, democratic strongholds. Minneapolis has had 50 years of uninterrupted democratic rule. All of this "systemic racism"? Yeah, it's been happening exclusively under democratic rule. The democrats are just using blacks for political gain as has been the case since the parties earliest days.
(Score: 2) by tizan on Friday June 12 2020, @07:44PM (4 children)
Sadly ...gay, women, minority rights have become a political issue with one party doing opposing and one for....
How many elected republicans you know is supporting minority rights (like not getting killed for sleeping in an apartment while cops decide they believe there are drugs there...surprising in 2020 we have to state that as being a right !!)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @11:12PM (2 children)
Can you state any law that prohibits minorities from enjoying the same rights as the majorities?
Or anytime President Trump, a Republican, has implied that minorities have less rights than majorities? (And no, "arresting looters" doesn't count. Protests are legal, and many say protesting is a right. But once that protester turns into a looter, he is becomes a criminal, a thug, a gangster, a thief, and a crook, and police have a RIGHT to detain and arrest that person, and society and citizens have a RIGHT to expect the police to control the looting because everyone has a RIGHT not to be robbed. If the looters happen to be mostly black, so be it.)
(Score: 2) by legont on Saturday June 13 2020, @03:37AM (1 child)
Hold on. Citizens do have rights. Police, on the other hand, has an obligation to catch all the looters. Until every one is off the street police can not stop.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @03:49AM
After the looters, let them come for the rapists. We'll catch all those blacks one way or another.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14 2020, @05:31PM
I don't entirely understand if people really believe this or straw manning has just become the norm. Republicans are perfectly fine with every group you mentioned. The major difference is in how both parties want to treat people. The republican party wants to treat everybody the same. The democrat party wants to give special privileges and treatment to certain groups. Imagine these protests were labeled 'get rid of no knock warrants' instead of 'black lives matter'. I suspect you'd find much more cooperation and support. Nobody likes that shit. For conservatives it's a clear example of government getting too big, for democrats it's something that's going to lead to a lot of 'special group' deaths.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:03PM (12 children)
I used to be in favor of demilitarizing the police, but this is an example of why we need them after all.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:33PM (11 children)
So zero reports of violence, let alone military grade weaponry. You're stupid.
Also, isn't this the sort of citizen group action 2A supporters are always defending? But now that some liberals are doing it in defiance of police brutality it is suddenly super dangerous and deserving of military style crackdown?
Lol, this is great seeing the conservative ideology melt down under the harsh light of reality. As usual the liberals are the brave, the conservatives are the cowardly boot lickers LARPing it up, to the amusement of everyone else.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @11:31PM (8 children)
Since when are automatic weapons not considered military grade?
The Chaz, Chuz, Chex, whatever, have guards with automatic rifles at the entrances.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday June 12 2020, @11:32PM
They should be using zorchers.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Saturday June 13 2020, @01:20AM (4 children)
could you provide a citation to support that claim please?
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Saturday June 13 2020, @02:46AM (1 child)
Here's a photo of a CHAZ 'border guard' with what I presume is a semi-auto. Close enough.
https://klch.q-mediadigital.com/partner-news/dispatch-from-chaz-tweets-call-for-guns-gatorade-and-cigarettes-as-cops-struggle-to-figure-out-whos-in-charge/ [q-mediadigital.com]
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @04:28AM
(Score: 3, Informative) by Kalas on Saturday June 13 2020, @06:53PM (1 child)
*("fake news" as those sorts are so fond of both saying and consuming)
(Score: 2) by Kalas on Saturday June 13 2020, @07:08PM
And here I wish I bothered reading all the hidden replies first. Looks like I was beaten to the punch in pointing this out, but sure enough I was right about exactly what put the idea in the guy's head.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @03:18AM
I'm not a supporter of Chaz or Raz, but I would be extremely shocked if they carried automatic weapons. It is almost a certainty that they're carrying semi-automatic weapons.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @07:00PM
you're a fucking moron.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by qzm on Saturday June 13 2020, @03:50AM
I wonder how you would feel if your residence or place of work was inside the zone.
Let alone if you (gasp) owned anything in there..
If they had gone out to some national park and set up their 'autonomous zone' it could be different.
Or are you full communist, and believe property is theft?
I am betting that these 'protesters' would be less than happy if, after going home, they found all their personal property looted and gone.
It took them one whole day to ask for charity 'oh dear, the homeless people took all our food, could someone PLEASE send us vegan meat substitutes and tofu!'
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14 2020, @09:49PM
https://twitter.com/htrtu_/status/1272275016688775184 [twitter.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by hemocyanin on Friday June 12 2020, @06:04PM (30 children)
It's more amusing than threatening, though Raz actually is on tape beating one guy and getting into some kind of low-level-physical altercation with a woman (maybe girlfriend) and other protestors are pissed and outing him.
There's a farm which is a thin 20' disc of potting soil dumped on some cardboard with a few potted plants and flowers. Farmville makes it look so easy!
I did watch a live stream of one of the organizing sessions. The first guy who spoke said that many of the people who live in the area get their medications by mail, that trash pickup is on Thursdays, and that they needed a way to shop for food or have it delivered, and respectfully asked that the organizers consider those topics. After that there was a 3 hour period of rhetorical speeches and self-aggrandizement and not once was a practical issue discussed. That's how these things are -- endless blah blah blah. I went to an occupy event once and it was the same thing -- speaker after speaker talking words and nothing of any concrete meaning ever discussed, except for a whole lot of time discussing the structure for having discussions and "building community" -- I hate that term more than any other right now.
Anyway, a bunch of LARPing and before long, the internecine differences will tear at social cohesion, Juneuary ( https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Juneuary [urbandictionary.com] ) isn't even half over and sleeping in tents pitched on concrete isn't super comfy, the food donations will peter out -- people are still out of work -- and when they do get back to work, they will have real life on their hands again.
I would bet that by this time next month, the circus is over without any outside influence. If it isn't, then it may be worth looking into other measures.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:19PM (28 children)
What hemocyanin said, plus the following points:
The first thing these open border activists did was build a wall and start policing their border. Days after these "defund the police" activists took control, Raz Simone declared himself the police and began attempting to extort protection money from local businesses. After they allowed homeless people to take all their food they began soliciting for donations of vegan meat substitute on social media. As for their farm, Lysenkoism revisited and we'll know they achieved "real communism" when they start starving.
It's an fabulous advertisement for civil society without being a reality TV show. Tucker Carlson did a fantastic
news segmentcomedy skit [youtube.com] on the worlds newest nation the other night. What a time to be alive.(Score: 4, Interesting) by looorg on Friday June 12 2020, @07:22PM (7 children)
So ACAB until you are in control and then among the first thing you do is to wall yourself in and start policing your area? One just can't help but to laugh at the logic and contradictions.
So is everyone on the "inside" ok with this or are they in essence being held hostage or thrown out of their homes by these cultists? Have they been disconnected from the postal-, power- and sanitation services yet? Since they are technically then not part of the city or "our" society anymore.
With support from the outside I guess they could make it thru the summer, unless it turns into a sanitary issue that risks spreading. But come winter this little science experiment will most likely be a thing of the past.
So if there is no law enforcement how long will it take for the druggies and hookers to set up shop inside? What is the goal? To become some sort of Christiania?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @08:25PM (6 children)
Where was that sentiment during armed insurrection [wikipedia.org]?
I find it quite interesting that you weren't so concerned when armed insurrectionists took over public lands, yet mostly unarmed folks are a threat to our society.
You can't have it both ways.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by looorg on Friday June 12 2020, @08:49PM (5 children)
How do you know what I thought about that event? Stop putting words in my mouth to fit your agenda.
But since you brought it up -- when can we expect the feds and the police to come in and clear the CHAZ? Otherwise why can only the "mostly" unarmed (insert whatever they are) occupy land in the middle of a metropolitan city without LEO coming in and restoring order? Is that just reserved for white people that likes guns out in the boonies?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:04PM
Well, based on the statements of the duly elected mayor [twitter.com], I'd say "never."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:05PM (3 children)
So. What *did* you think about the armed insurrectionists taking over Federal land?
Please. Do tell.
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:42PM
Sounds like another episode in the long-running dumbasses vs assholes soap opera.
Copenhagen is a food group, right?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by hemocyanin on Friday June 12 2020, @11:01PM (1 child)
I'm not him, but my thought was that it was quixotic, moronic, and lame. That said, there are some differences to note between Malheur and Capital Hill:
-- The Malheur occupation maybe displaced a few workers but my understanding was that the buildings were unoccupied, certainly not used for permanent habitation.
-- CHAZ is impacting approximately 500 residents. In these days of cancel culture and mobs, I would expect them to not say anything negative about the occupiers lest they be branded "literal nazis" just because they want to get their mail delivered and trash removed.
-- The Malheur occupation ended in a death which many on the woke left cheered but appears to be an instance of trigger happy cops starting shit.
-- The violence out of CHAZ is internal and though not so severe as that at Malheur, assaults and domestic violence are not exactly minor either.
-- Malheur aint exactly nowhere, but you can see it from there.
-- CHAZ is in WA's largest city.
So, on the continuum of actions, from helpful to horrendous, Malheur is somewhere past the midpoint on the way to horrendous, and CHAZ is quite a bit farther past it.
We can also look at a different commune the rioters set up as a "sanctuary" -- It's like a tornado went through. https://twitter.com/maxnesterak/status/1271186315476860928 [twitter.com]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @05:02AM
"I would expect them to not say anything negative about the occupiers lest they be branded "literal nazis" just because they want to get their mail delivered and trash removed."
I guess you don't realize you are outing yourself as an idiot. Best of luck with your continuing idiocy and your belief that you're a liberal. CHAZ is a weird and possibly troubling development, but your approach to them is simply out of touch. Maybe you were a liberal boomer, however now you're just a moderate conservative.
Not racist, not filled with hate, but definitely stuck in the past and prioritizing the wrong things.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @07:36PM (12 children)
To whom, *exactly* are you referring? What *specific* statements advocating for "open borders" have the *specific* people (name names here -- and they better be residing within CHAZ *right now*) made?
Come on. You made a specific accusation. Do you have any evidence to back it up?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @08:15PM (11 children)
Meet Antifa [youtube.com] defense for CHAZ is provided by the John Brown Gun Club.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @08:36PM (10 children)
What? Are you accusing the Washington State Legislature [wa.gov] of advocating for "open borders"?
I'd point out that at *most* there's one state legislator that represents the Capitol Hill area. What's more, the state capital is in Olympia, not Seattle.
Besides, nothing you posted has *anything* to do with "open borders" (and no one supports that anyway, despite the propaganda/cowardly panic fantasies of Alex Jones and Rush "Where are my opiates!" Limbaugh).
So I'll ask again: who, currently residing in "CHAZ", advocates "open borders"? Let's have names of individuals and references to *specific* published calls for "open borders." I know you'll just post more bullshit, but it just serves to give the lie even more to your disingenuous garbage.
You're talking out of your ass and it smells that way too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:34PM (5 children)
Don't know about open borders, but their list of demands did explicitly touch the whole abolish ICE thing, along with the whole bit about policing.
They're not exactly border-friendly, by the looks of it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:45PM (4 children)
I can't speak to the specific claims made, but personally I'm against imprisoning children [vox.com] in conditions that would trigger serious legal repercussions if an adult prison treated their *convicted* (remember, these are *children* not even *charged* with a crime) inmates the way these children have been treated.
Whether or not the solution is to get rid of the agency perpetrating these flagrant human rights violations or reforming that agency to make sure it stops, I don't know.
Regardless, making the abuses of ICE an issue is certainly reasonable, and taking an extreme position is pretty normal when you're trying to start a dialogue/negotiation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @10:20PM
No, there would be no legal repercussions. Most county jails are just as bad.
(Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @10:59PM (2 children)
Look at my bold text I must be saying somethiing important without ever mentioning that the child cages were built under Obama. 'tard!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @11:10PM (1 child)
Where was there any mention of any particular administration? And it doesn't matter. Abusing children is wrong no matter who does it.
Invoking whataboutism doesn't change the fact that those conditions are flagrant human rights abuses.
I'd also note that it's been more than three years since the Obama administration left administration of such abuses to others.
Want to blame Obama, fine. At the same time, you should credit him with deporting more undocumented folks than any president before or since.
But it wasn't *just* the Obama administration now was it? But you don't want to talk about that do you. 2016 is long over and the moron *you* elected is now responsible -- she lost a long time ago -- get over it!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @11:45PM
If you want to charge Obama with flagrant human rights violations, take him to court.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @10:56PM (3 children)
You are the one talking out of your ass. I provided evidence, you provided whataboutism and evasion. Antifa is not a horizontally integrated organization, it's vertically integrated like al-queda (literally "the base" - a database of militant Islamist groups according to UK Hansard records). Antifa can be tracked and will be tracked, guess that's bad news for you sweetheart? Enjoy the sedition charges!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @11:13PM (2 children)
Then you should have no problem naming specific names. What's more, you should be able to identify specific individuals *currently within the boundaries of CHAZ* who have made such statements.
You have done none of those things. And so I repeat myself for the last time: You're talking out of your ass and it smells that way too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @11:48PM (1 child)
You claim the ACAB crew are individualists but they are collectivist, bend and grab your ankles on the way to the nearest shower comrade.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @03:17AM
I didn't *claim* anything.
I asked for clarification and more specific information about claims made by someone else.
Specifically, I asked who made certain *public* statements. Full stop.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @07:51PM (5 children)
Has Raz started imposing taxes yet?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:29PM (3 children)
The security fee some have said he was trying to get businesses to pay.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:46PM
[Citation needed]
Who said that? Be specific and provide references.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @10:03PM
How many communists are there in the Department of Defense?
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @12:30AM
Could it be, . . .
(Score: 2) by legont on Saturday June 13 2020, @03:59AM
He is presumably in talks with the governor about extending the territory and some form of recognition, wich he already got, it seems.
What I wonder about... what stops president Putin from recognizing the new republic? He also could provide some help.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Reziac on Saturday June 13 2020, @02:48AM
If they're actually autonomous. why are they still leeching off city services, like power and water? Well, we'll see what happens when they refuse to pay next month's bills...
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:37PM
Sounds like a more useful and less hateful Trump rally!