Trump's Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance:
Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.
He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.
As the president wages a re-election campaign that polls say he is in danger of losing, his finances are under stress, beset by losses and hundreds of millions of dollars in debt coming due that he has personally guaranteed. Also hanging over him is a decade-long audit battle with the Internal Revenue Service over the legitimacy of a $72.9 million tax refund that he claimed, and received, after declaring huge losses. An adverse ruling could cost him more than $100 million.
The tax returns that Mr. Trump has long fought to keep private tell a story fundamentally different from the one he has sold to the American public. His reports to the I.R.S. portray a businessman who takes in hundreds of millions of dollars a year yet racks up chronic losses that he aggressively employs to avoid paying taxes. Now, with his financial challenges mounting, the records show that he depends more and more on making money from businesses that put him in potential and often direct conflict of interest with his job as president.
The New York Times has obtained tax-return data extending over more than two decades for Mr. Trump and the hundreds of companies that make up his business organization, including detailed information from his first two years in office. It does not include his personal returns for 2018 or 2019. This article offers an overview of The Times's findings; additional articles will be published in the coming weeks.
[...] "Over the past decade, President Trump has paid tens of millions of dollars in personal taxes to the federal government, including paying millions in personal taxes since announcing his candidacy in 2015," Mr. Garten said in a statement.
With the term "personal taxes," however, Mr. Garten appears to be conflating income taxes with other federal taxes Mr. Trump has paid — Social Security, Medicare and taxes for his household employees. Mr. Garten also asserted that some of what the president owed was "paid with tax credits," a misleading characterization of credits, which reduce a business owner's income-tax bill as a reward for various activities, like historic preservation.
[...] Ultimately, Mr. Trump has been more successful playing a business mogul than being one in real life.
[...] In 2018, for example, Mr. Trump announced in his disclosure that he had made at least $434.9 million. The tax records deliver a very different portrait of his bottom line: $47.4 million in losses.
Also at marketplace.org and npr.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @10:19PM (23 children)
Trump paid only $750 in taxes? My 18 year old daughter paid $500k in taxes from her lemonade stand last year alone. Granted I told her to pay as much taxes as she wanted so she decided to pay 99% tax rate since she is in top 1% for her age group.
All the rich could learn a lesson from her.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @10:30PM (10 children)
They have! [fool.com]
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @10:48PM (9 children)
I don't see where that says Biden paid anything close to a fair tax rate. He is top 1%.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @10:55PM (8 children)
Biden paid $1.5m last year on income of $4.5m. He is hiding the actual sources of that lucre though, as he and Jill route their income through their corps called "Celticcapri" and "Giacoppa".
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @10:58PM (7 children)
When will you people finally have enough of always having to choose between psychopath A and psychopath B ?
And, more importantly, when will you finally realize/admit that it's your fault if it's always only psychopaths that make it to the top ?
(Score: -1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:42PM (1 child)
Are you claiming the bidens are psychopaths?! Because they use standard high-income methods, but paid approx a 1/3rd tax on income?!?
You're out of your mind!
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:44PM
Paying 30% on income is nothing to be proud of, that is like wearing the minimum amount of flair.
(Score: 2, Offtopic) by Mykl on Monday September 28 2020, @11:55PM (3 children)
Hey, don't blame me! I voted for Kodos!
(Score: 3, Touché) by Muad'Dave on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:42PM (2 children)
Last election I literally did write in "Kodos the Executioner". I couldn't stomach either pres candidate.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @06:07PM (1 child)
"either"? are you some kinda moooron? ever heard of voting third party? a Real American would have voted Libertarian.
(Score: 2) by Muad'Dave on Wednesday September 30 2020, @11:15AM
My ballot had exactly two choices.
As for being a "moooron" - I'm more of a maroon - perhaps even an ultra-maroon [youtube.com].
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by fustakrakich on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:01AM
Hey! How come I always get modded down for sayin' that shit? Everybody tells me I'm victim blaming.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @10:31PM (7 children)
Parent post should be marked as spam because it's a copy-paste from a post in Fusty's "As we suspected, he's broke" journal entry.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @10:47PM
Maybe, just far out there maybe, it could be "Fusty" posting it again AC...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:22PM (4 children)
No no, you get downmodded for speaking the truth and rightwing talking point spam gets modded up! Do you not know anything about SN?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:32PM (3 children)
That's interesting. I get downmodded relentlessly.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @04:02PM (1 child)
Isn't perspective interesting? The libs truly believe SN is a right-wing controlled thing. I'm quite independent and neutral, and from my observation, anything even unintentionally slightly possibly connected to anything conservative gets all possible downmods. And anything leftist gets high praise and upmods, even ACs. If I was a betting person, I'd say it's at least 10:1 in favor of lefties- righties getting 10 downmods for every 1 downmod on a leftist comment. You can't even make a neutral comment here without a downmod from lefties.
You're quite brave, or just don't care about karma...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @07:34PM
The thing is, if you wrong all the time and keep repeating it over and over you attract -1 votes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @04:43PM
Yeah yeah, it was a bit of hyperbole but my experience is my posts are very often modded troll only to later end up positive. I see a similar thing with other posts as well.
It is an ongoing problem, and troll mods should be reserved for actual trolling or at least factually incorrect statements. So I could see a troll mod for someone saying universal healthcare doesn't work, or for someone saying all conservatives are racists.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @11:23AM
Please don't abuse the spam mod. Spam is for excessive repposts, not a single copied comment from a journal.
If you absolutely must downmod it for something, use "Redundant" instead.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday September 28 2020, @11:58PM (1 child)
Heh, nice dupe, man! [soylentnews.org] Aged seven years so quickly! And two hundred grand more...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:09AM
Why wouldn't there be two daughters? The younger one looks up to the older one.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday September 29 2020, @11:03AM (1 child)
Trump still trumps your daughter [twitter.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @09:16PM
And he'll molest your daughter.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by PartTimeZombie on Monday September 28 2020, @10:56PM (16 children)
From what I have read, the reason presidential candidates have made their tax returns public is because Nixon's were leaked, and he had paid a similar tiny amount on more than $200,000 income.
Republicans were embarrassed by that, but times have changed, and republicans have lost their moral compass, and they all agree that this just makes Trump "smart".
(Score: 4, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:10AM (11 children)
If you're smart, you don't pay income taxes. [soylentnews.org]
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:31AM (10 children)
It is true, the democrats and republicans people have voted for every election have totally fucked up this country by discouraging productive work and encouraging financial and legal schemes.
You are stupid to fight against this force and do anything that well lead to an income tax. People are too dumb to stop voting democrat and republican.
(Score: 4, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:08AM (9 children)
Tax "loopholes" are mostly put there on purpose: to encourage certain behaviors like investment, or energy conservation.
I see a low income tax rate as the sign of a weak mind: someone who lets the tax laws tell them what to do with their money. Or a liar, or cheater, often all three.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:32AM
Ok, well they see you as sheeple paying for your own shearing.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Tuesday September 29 2020, @10:16AM (5 children)
> to encourage certain behaviors like investment, or energy conservation.
or claiming your business is based in the Bahamas despite the fact that 99 % of your customers are based in the USA, or buying and selling property and paying capital gains tax rather than income tax, or claiming that your house is actually a home office, etc
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:51PM (4 children)
The liars and cheaters should also include successful corruptors of the tax code that give themselves loopholes.
Instead of Gerrymandering our intrepid lawmakers should be engineering ways to expose and expell that form of corruption - but where's their incentive?
TIATA - Transparency Is Always The Answer.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Tuesday September 29 2020, @02:59PM (3 children)
Without sufficient demand, it won't happen. What is discovered is that the corruption begins in the home. There is a logical reason that corrupt politicians win reelection for 40 years. They *bring home the bacon*. Transparency would ruin all of that.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday September 29 2020, @04:27PM (2 children)
For a minority, the majority should see it and vote out the corruption, so that the majority benefits from the end of the corruption - not to mention the satisfaction of it all.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday September 29 2020, @06:00PM (1 child)
The majority still has to make the demand for transparency. They won't get it by voting for the incumbent
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday September 29 2020, @06:42PM
I feel like transparency should be a significant platform plank for every campaign, unfortunately issues like border walls and gun control seem to be more what the candidates are willing to discuss.
The one thing I know for sure: it doesn't matter enough to me for me to consider getting involved in politics and running myself.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:36PM (1 child)
Or bribery.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:53PM
Or bribery.
Corruption, blackmail, etc. I'm sure it's all there.
TIATA - Transparency Is Always The Answer
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @08:31AM (3 children)
It is smart.
Republicans have lost their moral compass, but that isn't a factor here. Literally zero people anywhere voluntarily pay more taxes than necessary. The fact that Trump can legally pay essentially no tax means the system is broken, not that there's something wrong with what Trump did.
It does appear that Trump might have bent the rules in places - funneling money to Ivanka as a "contractor" is a no-no, and he might have to pay a penalty for that, but he's not guilty of large scale tax evasion, and there's nothing damning in there about Russia or whatever. Frankly, I'm not sure what the big deal was. It seems almost as if he refused to release his taxes simply because that's what everyone else does, and he didn't want to be like everyone else.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @09:00AM
Why do I read your post with a Russian accent?
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday October 02 2020, @12:07AM (1 child)
I pay to the state monopoly power company the "green" tariff which is more expensive during work/peak hours, ans more expensive at other hours too. This is done on the understanding that the extra money is invested in R&D for sustainable energy sources.
Being a monopoly and a necessity, I cannot avoid some payment to the government this way, so it's effectively a tax. And yet I voluntearily pay more than necessary.
In return, I get to display a green frog logo on my company website, and the knowledge that in a country with good accountability (Americans would be shocked, it's probably more accountability than you can even imagine) my money is being invested in improving the futurw.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 02 2020, @03:29AM
Pura vida, brother.
But the USA'ians can't even wear masks or restrict war weapons. If they can't stop themselves from hurting other humans, why could they stop themselves from hurting entities they see as lesser - the environment, humans-to-be, nonhuman species and beings?
It's sad - but it's not surprising - that not imposing externalities on others would be so incomprehensible to USA'ians.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday September 28 2020, @11:06PM (93 children)
https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/09/28/nyt-puts-a-stake-thru-the-heart-of-its-own-claim-of-what-trump-paid-in-taxes-lets-other-disturbing-info-slip-out/ [redstate.com]
I haven't seen the returns, and it would probably take a lot of time for me to figure them out if I did see them. But, the bare claim that "Trump only paid $750 in taxes for $year" appears to be a blatant falsehood. Face it, Trump didn't sit down with a box of pencils, and figure his taxes all by himself one night. He has accountants who do all that for him. If there is tax fraud to be found, you can bet there are accountants to be hung.
Is Trump a con man? Well, of course. Would he cheat on his taxes? Only if he thought he could get away with it. But, NYT's claims appear to be false. They should have done a better job of smearing the president.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:08PM (68 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:14PM (10 children)
All you have to do check one box then you get half off your taxes, do you know that box?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:56AM (9 children)
Capital gains?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:58AM (8 children)
Nope, that is a different form. It is just a box you check.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @02:01AM (7 children)
Um, disabled veteran? Health-related bankruptcy? Foreclosure? It's gotta be to be some hippy bullshit from the Dems, amirite?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @02:19AM (6 children)
Nope, anyone could do it. You just have to know to check the box.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @02:24AM
Unmarked phat envelope into correct mailbox
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @02:41AM (3 children)
Is it that one weird old box on the form?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @03:22AM (2 children)
It's got text explaining what it is next to it, it's just really small font.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @08:34AM (1 child)
Cut your taxes in half with this one weird trick they don't want you to know about!
Don't feed the trolls.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @07:38PM
Oh come on, this a fun game.
I'm guessing: "Agricultural farming subsidy."
(Score: 2) by rcamera on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:17PM
is it "married, filing jointly"...?
doesn't actually cut taxes in half, but can increase allowable deductions. unfortunately, the amount of allowable deductions has been severely reduced the past few years.
/* no comment */
(Score: 0, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Monday September 28 2020, @11:16PM (31 children)
Nice way to misrepresent what I said, at the same time ignoring the quote.
In the two years BEFORE the two years in question, Trump overpaid more than 5 million dollars in taxes. In the two years in question, Trump applied portions of that overpayment to his taxes due. It seems that his tax liability in both years were covered by his previous overpayments, but for accounting reasons, he still paid in $750 in each of those years.
The whole point is, we can't expect that the NYT or Trump is giving us all the facts. NYT is happy to smear Trump, and they don't need all the facts to do so. Just enough facts to help you draw incomplete conclusions is all they want.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:26PM (13 children)
Regardless whether you care about his taxes, it is now known that Trump has personal loans totalling $421 million and is a national security threat. I'll give you a hint, it invovles your favorite *gate scandal! You think Trump tried to pull out of Afghanistan because he cares about the troops or peace in the middle east? Please reconcile that with his massive sale of weapons to the Saudis, and his lack of condemnation for Putin's US soldier bounty program =)
Best of luck boomer.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:33PM (8 children)
$421 million isnt a lot of money and is no kind of threat.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:36PM
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/news/netflix-1b-bond-sale-worries-182118721.html [yahoo.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:51AM (5 children)
Wow. Sometimes I see some really stupid, poorly thought our defences of Trump, but that one might be the stupidest.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:07AM (4 children)
Well, if you think that is stupid that means you are ignorant about the world around you...
So I don't feel too bad. Raising $400 million is nothing for these large organizations when interest rates are near zero. It is a non-issue.
(Score: 5, Touché) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:32AM (3 children)
It's such a tiny amount of money that no American bank will loan any of it to him, due to him being such a deadbeat, so it's down to Deutsche Bank.
You know, that bank that keeps getting prosecuted for money laundering for Russians (among others) and is in such a bad state that it might not be able to loan him the $400 million he is going to need.
But go on, tell me again how great it is to have this guy as the president of your country.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:37AM (2 children)
Where did you get "no American bank would loan any of it to him, due to being a deadbeat" from?
Is there a transcript of these meetings somewhere? Lol, no we both know you fell for fake news from anonymous professional liars once again.
(Score: 2, Informative) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday September 29 2020, @02:44AM (1 child)
Glad you're holding your president to such high standards. You must be so proud.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @03:06AM
I have no expectations for the president, if it were up to me the average person could completely ignore what's going on at that level with no negative impact on their life.
But it's more than obvious you just believe random bs you read online just because you like orangemanbad porn.
(Score: 2) by epitaxial on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:54PM
It is if you're worth $421 million.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:29AM
So, Pizzagate is back again?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:31AM (2 children)
nipplegate?
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @03:22AM
nope...more like pussy gate or golden shower gate. all arranged by his favorite dictator.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @06:41AM
I think you mean Storymygate and my god what I would give for that to have been the depth of his scandals.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:12AM (16 children)
What?!? Sanity check yourself. They released the documents. Do you see credible "right-wing" media that have skin to lose - not just mudrakers, inciters, and trolls ...
Ok tangent. I'm serious here Runaway. The link you posted, which btw calls for the "heads" of NYT editors, which is ridiculous and makes them look childish and foolish - really for real, that was a shit link bro, do you read before you paste links? If so how did you fail to notice the huge fallacies? Do you not read critically when you feel the author is "on your side"? If so how do you ever have confidence in your positions and beliefs?
If you answer the above honestly and forthrightly I might be able to understand your position. So please do.
/tangent
...ok do you see any "right" media that have skin to lose if they publish inaccuracies that have claimed the NYT are lying? No? I'll tell you why: it's because the NYT phrased things in ways that are truthful - even if they are biased! - and their claims are not falsehoods.
This is not bloomberg and grain-of-rice-chip "sources". This is "here are the tax papers, which nobody is claiming are forgeries."
(Score: 4, Informative) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:57AM (9 children)
The fact Runaway reads redstate.com, believes it, and then posts links here and thinks that makes a point for him ought to tell you something.
There has been a huge drop in the quality of evidence people are posting here to back up their arguments. Fox News is bad enough, but I've see unironic links to Breitbart.
(Score: 3, Informative) by helel on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:35AM
Most of the time people don't even post sources at all these days. It's disappointing, to say the least.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:38AM (4 children)
Heh and the troll squad started modbombing my comment - it was at +3 from you and azuma in part I would guess, and now is back down to 1, with no comments suggesting any reason it wasn't a fruitful contribution! Lame!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @02:05AM (3 children)
If you bitxch about the audience again, immediate -1
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @05:23AM (2 children)
Oooh did your feelings get hurt because I criticize downvoters who don't comment saying why the downvote? Your poor feelings! How dare I have an opinion that's not yours, that must sting!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @07:39PM (1 child)
Look at you with 0 votes over all your posts bitching about the down-mod oppressors. Sad.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 02 2020, @03:31AM
Oooh look at you coming back for more. Hm, seems I still wasn't bitching. Does it still sting to be ignored by everyone except me, who laughs cheerily at your expense? I hope not. Naw, actually I don't care. :)
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:48PM (2 children)
I'm being slightly tongue-in-cheek here, but only a little. The sources you named and those I named have all shredded their credibility as conveyors of facts and have descended into a murky, spurious realm as purveyors of spin, innuendo, and rumor. All of them can only be considered to hold a little water if they post a story that contradicts their sacred cows, ie. if CNN were to post a story about how Trump did something virtuous, I'd be more inclined to believe it actually happened. For every other case it only makes sense as evidence if it's from a non-aligned source like the USGS or something, and even then it's recommended to read it with a critical eye.
But if we want to be really honest with ourselves, most people, even intelligent ones, don't really care about sources and evidence, because it's cheaper and easier to go with emotions. Demanding evidence(!) is usually a rhetorical ploy and not an honest request for information that might change our minds if only we could see it for ourselves...
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @05:51PM
I'm innocent I tells ya, and the evidence that says I'm not is just a partisan ploy anyway, so don't pay it any attention.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 02 2020, @03:39AM
You're wrong to think that swapping redstate/nytimes is sensible. Because the redstate link had no supporting evidence, and the NYT link has documents that nobody is denying.
Wrong. When they present evidence that nobody disputes, if there are people who could prove it wrong and would benefit by that, it suggests they are not doing so because the evidence is true. We have evidence nobody is arguing about. Why wouldn't Trump disavow these sensational claims for major points? If you don't see how this contributes to strength of evidence you should re-examine until you see it.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:20AM (3 children)
He is insane. Look at his post history. Even a couple of years ago he was practically jizzing in his Depends over the prospect of a civil war, specifically so his "grandkids won't be slaves to make brown and black people happy." I have a journal entry that quotes the entire thing. The guy threatens to shoot government agents who "come for his guns," very clearly wants Civil War 2.0, and constantly flirts with domestic terrorism. Some of the three-letter agencies might want to know about him.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:29AM (2 children)
I mean, your TLAs do know about him. He's not got opsec.
But I am genuinely curious how he reaches these results. And does he have the capacity to recognize how bullshit that link is, or the self-awareness to examine why he was at first lulled by it? Is he one of those unfortunates who are disabled logically in the way that some people are dyslexic or colour blind - no judgement, just don't have them edit your essay nor paint your house? I don't get how "there are documents that nobody credible is doubting and front page headlines ditto, everyone is downplaying not denying" is easy to doubt, and extraordinary claims require more evidence than a random webpage that cites other randoms on twitter, all using "obvious" and force of emotion arguments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @03:29AM
he is a paid russian troll.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday September 29 2020, @04:05AM
It's very simple: he's gone all-in RWNJ. He's the textbook case of Fox News Dementia. It's almost galling how stereotypical the guy is and the things he does are.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @04:03AM
Maybe he may be able to answer fortnightly, maybe not, but "forthrightly" requires a reaction speed his mind is no longer able of.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @05:28AM
Well runaways' posted on other things and not here so I guess he won't.
Shame.
Time to toss him into the "troll" bin. Sad. I hate the feeling of accepting badness in others.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:17PM (23 children)
Instead of talking about nebulous "sleazy" behavior, point out the criminal activity or tax errors.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:18PM (2 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:20PM (1 child)
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:58PM
I'd buy that for a dollar! [thehustle.co]
(Score: 5, Troll) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:03AM (19 children)
Is that the standard you hold your president to? Because that sounds like a shitty person you have running the joint.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @02:03AM
This should convince us Trump is only now in floribus.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by slinches on Tuesday September 29 2020, @07:08PM (17 children)
When it comes to taxes, yes. Trump didn't make the rules, he's just playing by them. Only paying the minimum taxes necessary is not "sleazy", it's normal. How much have you intentionally donated in extra tax money to the federal government?
By the way, if you're looking for someone to blame for the tax laws being set up to allow Trump to pay what he did, maybe look at the candidate that spent 44 years in the Senate and as VP making those tax laws.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday September 29 2020, @07:25PM (11 children)
Yes, I understand he may well have done nothing illegal, but having a president who refuses to release his tax records could be seen as an attempt to cover something up.
He is the leader of your country and I would have thought you would hold him up to a higher standard, but I suppose not.
(Score: 2) by slinches on Tuesday September 29 2020, @08:00PM (10 children)
Even the President deserves a presumption of innocence. It's a fundamental part of our legal system and should be a fundamental part of how we treat each other in our daily lives. In general, people behave how you expect them to. So presuming malintent sets that as the standard of behavior. It's not just about making sure the innocent aren't punished for crimes they didn't commit, it's about establishing a society where the majority of people are trying to be honest and just in everything they do.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday September 29 2020, @08:25PM (8 children)
As I pointed out somewhere else, the reason your presidential candidates release their tax records is because Nixon was an embarrassment when it transpired he paid a tiny amount of tax on more than $200,000 in income.
People from his own party were embarrassed by that in 1970, but here we are in 2020 and you're arguing "presumption of innocence" when no-one is saying Trump shouldn't get that, even though he lies about why he won't release his own records.
(Score: 2) by slinches on Tuesday September 29 2020, @09:17PM (7 children)
You contradict yourself. You can either presume his motivations are as he says or claim he's lying about them, not both.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday September 29 2020, @09:39PM (6 children)
Where did I presume his motivations? I am not saying he's lying about his motivations either. I'm repeating what the head of the IRS said, when Trump lied about why he can't release his tax records.
It would be very interesting to see his entire tax records, and every other presidential candidate since Nixon has released them, but not this guy.
What should we assume from that?
(Score: 2) by slinches on Tuesday September 29 2020, @09:51PM (5 children)
Nothing. Because it isn't evidence of anything.
There's plenty of actual stuff that Trump has said and done to complain about. Why make up more with no basis for it? It only undermines the real issues.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday September 29 2020, @10:26PM (4 children)
Of course it is evidence of something, how could it not be?
If you're OK with your president acting like that, then fine.
(Score: 2) by slinches on Wednesday September 30 2020, @08:16AM (3 children)
And this is why the presumption of innocence argument is lost on you. You believe that someone must be hiding something bad if they don't want others to see.
Maybe I can give an example that demonstrates the concept in a way you can relate to: Do you want a publicly streaming webcam in your bedroom? Maybe you're okay with that, but do you think someone must be doing something illegal in there if they don't want one? Even when it's something less intensely personal like a tax return, it's still up to the individual to choose what they are willing to disclose. Someone taking it upon themselves to dig up personal info and post it publicly is called doxing and is a huge violation of privacy. That is what the NY Times did and it is never acceptable, regardless of the target.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday September 30 2020, @07:17PM (2 children)
You're conflating a webcam in every bedroom with your president refusing to follow a political agreement that both of your parties have followed for 50 years.
Those two things are not close to being equal.
(Score: 2) by slinches on Wednesday September 30 2020, @07:44PM (1 child)
I didn't say they were equivalent. I said it was an example to illustrate the underlying principle. They aren't equal, but that doesn't change who has the right to disclose such information.
Also, there is no agreement to disclose tax returns. It is something that many politicians do, but that doesn't mean it's obligatory or that withholding them is a sign of anything other than a desire to maintain the privacy of private matters.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday September 30 2020, @07:57PM
Yes there is, and Trump is the only candidate to refuse in 50 years.
Even Trump has never used that excuse, instead he has repeatedly said he will release his tax returns after the IRS finishes their audit, or they're "too complex" and people won't understand them, or "there's nothing to learn from them". But I don't really care, if you're happy with a candidate who lies as much as Trump does, feel free to elect him.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 02 2020, @03:42AM
They get that presumption in a court of law but not in public opinion.
When a politician publicly does something suuuuper sketchy, it's ok - as individual voters! - to think less of them, even before a judge officially pronounces them guilty of bribery or whatever.
(Score: 2) by dry on Wednesday September 30 2020, @03:57AM (4 children)
Has a Judge actually said that? Things like paying family members huge consultancy fees are usually frowned upon. The thing with taxes when playing at this level is often it is really hard to say whether it is legal or not, hard enough that 2 different judges may come to different conclusions.
Here in Canada, what started quietly happening is the tax man would tell a rich person/corporation that they think there is cheating going on. The rich person or corporation would say no, my accountant is just really good. Then the tax man would say, you can pay half what we think you owe or go to court, the rich person would answer deal and pay up. Due to all the ambiguity in the law, it is a win for both, the tax man might lose the case and get zero or he might win and get 100% plus penalties, rich person doesn't have to gamble on court and even if he wins, it looks bad and if he loses it's worse.
Now it seems that Trump has been being audited for the longest time and fighting it, so it can't be that clear cut that he is perfectly legal, but until there is a trial, we don't really know if paying family large fees is legal or not. Precedence does say probably not.
(Score: 2) by slinches on Wednesday September 30 2020, @08:34AM (3 children)
That's all beside the point. It wasn't up to the NY Times to decide whether Trump's tax returns should be published publicly or not. The appropriate people to make that assessment had them and are in the process of performing the audit. Outside of that, it should be the individual's decision whether they want to release that info to the public. Essentially, the NY Times doxed someone and people are cheering it on instead of condemning that sort of behavior because it happened to be someone they dislike.
(Score: 2) by dry on Friday October 02 2020, @03:57AM (2 children)
While generally you are right, in the case of a public servant, perhaps their employers have the right to know? Especially when it is a security risk? Here, there's been a movement to publish all public servants financial stuff, don't like it, don't become a public servant.
(Score: 2) by slinches on Friday October 02 2020, @05:12AM (1 child)
If that was what the law was, then yeah that would be how it works. Except that isn't the law now. So they should write up a bill and get it passed or abide by the candidate's decision on what they want to release. Either way it was wrong for the NY Times to take it upon themselves to dig up info someone isn't compelled to release and doesn't want to be public then release it against their will, no matter who that person is.
(Score: 2) by dry on Saturday October 03 2020, @03:51AM
It's a good point. On the other hand, the press has often published stuff that is in the public's interest to know, even when the subject didn't want it posted. It seems to be a gray area, especially if everything published is true or clearly labeled opinion. Public figures have also traditionally not had the same right to privacy as John Doe.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @05:46PM
What jave you actually done to change the system? If nothing, vote for trump because he at least will give you a better position to do nothing from (provided you are american)
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:13PM
Gold metal gymnastics performance, right here.
(Score: 5, Informative) by sjames on Monday September 28 2020, @11:41PM (11 children)
If 5.2 million covered his taxes from 2016 to present, he's either lying about his business acumen or he's paying at a VASTLY lower rate than any of the people he claims to sympathize with.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:12AM (10 children)
The last 4 years his job was President of the United States of America. A job for which he donates his entire salary dumbfuck. Donate your whole salary then use your turbo tax to figure out how much taxes you owe.
(Score: 5, Informative) by sjames on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:20AM (9 children)
His businesses and other investments continue to make him money. You don't have to be very smart to understand that, but it seems to have eluded you.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:28AM (8 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:36AM (4 children)
Finance/accounting/taxes is a very precise business. You dont even bother with correct punctuation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:43AM (3 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:05AM (2 children)
Not really. If you want people to listen to you on a topic like that take the time to write clearly. Perhaps your info is good, perhaps not. But the heuristics say not.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:08AM (1 child)
The claims are solid BTW, just so you don't make an idiot of yourself in public (you know, not pseudo-anonymously).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:41AM
Keep attacking people who give you friendly advice, I'm sure it is a great strategy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @02:30AM
So you're saying the billionaire with multiple hotels and the like is making less than a million dollars? Pack it in boys, our esteemed PhD in Bullshitonomics has already swallowed Trump's massive load.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @02:35AM
That just isn't true. The $75k/year threshold isn't just earned income: it's investment income too. If you earn no income, and realize $75k in gains, that's all at 0%. After that it's taxed at 10%, then climbs as you realize more and more.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday September 29 2020, @06:26PM
If true, 0% would certainly fall under VASTLY lower rate, don't you think?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:49PM
Please explain
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 28 2020, @11:50PM
I'm not an accountant but I do books.
You didn't read TFA even. I did.
That analyst's conclusion is not supported by the (presumed) facts he states.
Literally for about a decade, the net taxes Trump paid were roughly zero. When he prepaid $1m and $4.2m he got it effectively put 'on account.' Transferring in this way is making a deposit/investment, not making a payment. Then that
You are extremely wrong. "Line 56" could not be more clear. He owed $750. He also handed over more which was then applied to other debts he had to the government. That is not paying personal taxes over $750. Trump did as is legal - he minimized his tax burden - but the bare claim of $750 paid in taxes, those two years, is extraordinarily accurate and clear.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Revek on Tuesday September 29 2020, @12:24AM (3 children)
We need a idiot moderation.
This page was generated by a Swarm of Roaming Elephants
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:00AM (2 children)
yes, but it would be used where 'disagree' and 'insightful' could be applied (depending on the moderator's bias)
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 4, Informative) by Revek on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:21AM (1 child)
It was a joke. Not as big a joke as the guy who posted that but still a joke.
This page was generated by a Swarm of Roaming Elephants
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:35AM
Honestly I'd like "-1 factually unsupported", "-1 logically inconsistent"
(Score: 2, Disagree) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:12AM (4 children)
NYT knows what they are doing, I suspect they smeared the president just exactly as effectively as they wanted to - probably with an intentional snap-back effect targeted at swing voters to sway them in whichever direction most benefits the NYT and the people they are colluding with.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @01:17AM
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @04:33AM (1 child)
Actually, that's a far more accurate description of Senate Republicans' efforts to smear Joe Biden [nytimes.com]. In fact, numerous witnesses testified that Joe Biden did not alter US policy in any way because of the actions of his son.
By the way, if the NYT reporting about Trump's finances is inaccurate, Trump can make this all go away. He can provide the same level of transparency as every other modern presidential candidate by releasing his tax returns and disclosing who the $421 million in personally guaranteed debt is owed to. If the NYT has smeared Trump as you claim, Trump has the ability to set the record straight. In fact, he's had years to get ahead of this by releasing his tax returns and other important financial information. The American people deserve to know about which foreign creditors are owed debt personally guaranteed by Trump. Why has this information not been disclosed?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 30 2020, @01:21AM
Headlines: "no tax paid in years X, Y and Z, $750 paid in A and B" buried on page 3, oh, well, he paid 4 or 5 million here or there, and as a result the following years owed nothing...
How you present information in the age of the soundbite is more influential than the whole story.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 29 2020, @05:48PM
If this is the best theyve got, vote trump 2020