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posted by martyb on Saturday October 09 2021, @08:43AM   Printer-friendly
from the it's-all-directed-into-your-head dept.

Biden signs bill to help victims of 'Havana syndrome'

President Biden on Friday signed into law a bill that provides financial support to U.S. government officials who have fallen victim to "Havana syndrome," mysterious health symptoms that have affected U.S. personnel in various parts of the world.

"We are bringing to bear the full resources of the U.S. Government to make available first-class medical care to those affected and to get to the bottom of these incidents, including to determine the cause and who is responsible," Biden said in a written statement Friday. "Protecting Americans and all those who serve our country is our first duty, and we will do everything we can to care for our personnel and their families."

Havana Syndrome: 'Attacks have stepped-up in their brazenness,' says national security expert

Frank Figliuzzi, a former assistant director for counterintelligence at the FBI, called for greater coordination within the U.S. government to combat the growing number of mysterious soundwave attacks against Americans dubbed as "Havana Syndrome."

"I still don't see the kind of coordinated, across agency, government-wide approach to this where there's a central medical review that's done, no matter which agency you're from, if you've been impacted, and look, these attacks have stepped-up in their brazenness," Figliuzzi said.

Figliuzzi, an NBC News national security analyst, gave examples of the increasingly flagrant attacks against high-ranking U.S. officials. One attack occurred during a trip to India in September with CIA Director William Burns. Another potential attack delayed Vice President Kamala Harris' trip to Vietnam in August.

U.S. investigators increasingly confident directed-energy attacks behind Havana Syndrome

The U.S. government's investigation into the mysterious illnesses impacting American personnel overseas and at home is turning up new evidence that the symptoms are the result of directed-energy attacks, according to five lawmakers and officials briefed on the matter.

Berlin police investigating 'Havana syndrome' cases at U.S. Embassy

In response to a report by the news magazine Der Spiegel, Berlin police said they had since August been investigating an "alleged sonic weapon attack on employees of the U.S. Embassy," but declined to provide further information.

Havana syndrome.

Also at NYT.

Previously: CIA Director "Fuming" After Havana Syndrome Strikes Team Member in India


Original Submission

Related Stories

CIA Director “Fuming” After Havana Syndrome Strikes Team Member in India 52 comments

CIA director "fuming" after Havana syndrome strikes team member in India

A US intelligence officer traveling in India earlier this month with CIA director William Burns reported experiencing a mysterious health incident and symptoms consistent with so-called Havana syndrome, according to a report by CNN. The officer received immediate medical care upon returning to the US.

The case raises fears that such incidents are not only increasing, but potentially escalating, unnamed officials told CNN and The New York Times. The new incident within Burns' own team reportedly left the CIA chief "fuming" with anger.

The director's schedule is tightly guarded, and officials do not know if the affected intelligence officer was targeted because the officer was traveling with the director. If the health incident was an attack carried out by an adversarial intelligence agency—as feared—it's unclear how the adversarial agency learned of the trip and was able to prepare an attack. It's also possible, however, that the officer was targeted for other reasons and without knowledge that the officer was traveling with the director.

[...] The incident is the second high-profile case in less than a month. On August 24, another so-called "anomalous health incident" affecting US embassy staff in Hanoi, Vietnam, came to light. It is still unclear how many staff members were affected in that incident, but NBC News reported that two US personnel were medevaced out of the country.

Previously:
US Embassy Employees in Cuba Possibly Subjected to 'Acoustic Attack'
U.S. State Department Pulls Employees From Cuba, Issues Travel Warning Due to "Sonic Attacks"
Latest Explanation for Cuban Embassy Symptoms: Microwave Weapons
"Sonic Attack" Recording Made by Diplomats is Actually a Recording of Crickets
Mysterious health "attack" cases rise to 130, US officials confirm


Original Submission

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  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @09:22AM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @09:22AM (#1185734)

    We eliminate the minimum age to hold senate an presidency positions, then allow citizens of voting age or not to apply as state and federal representatives. After Trump and now Biden, can the youngest generation really fuck up any worse?

    • (Score: 5, Funny) by Opportunist on Saturday October 09 2021, @09:43AM

      by Opportunist (5545) on Saturday October 09 2021, @09:43AM (#1185737)

      You know your country is shot when the old Soviet jokes work in it. Examples?

      What was Zarist Russia? The transition of power from grandfather to grandson.
      What is Soviet Russia? The transition of power from grandfather to grandfather.

      TASS report: "Today, due to bad health and without regaining consciousness, Konstantin Ustinovich Chernenko took up the duties of Secretary General"

      What are the new requirements for joining the Politburo? You must now be able to walk six steps without the assistance of a cane, and say three words without the assistance of paper.

      I am sure you have no problem adapting them slightly to work in this regime.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:13AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:13AM (#1185743)

      Think of the victims, you insensitive clod.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @11:17AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @11:17AM (#1185747)

      Yes, they can.

      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @02:10PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @02:10PM (#1185769)

        Proof: Ruby on Rails, twitter, gender proliferation.

    • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday October 09 2021, @02:39PM

      by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday October 09 2021, @02:39PM (#1185777) Homepage Journal

      Who let that twelve year old in here? And a not very bright kid, at that.

      --
      mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @03:18PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @03:18PM (#1185783)

      Yes.

    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday October 09 2021, @05:00PM

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Saturday October 09 2021, @05:00PM (#1185800) Journal

      After Trump and now Biden, can the youngest generation really fuck up any worse?

      Sure, just keep reelecting them... SNAFU

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10 2021, @02:50AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10 2021, @02:50AM (#1185882)

      The minimum age isn't a bad thing, although you could discuss what it should be. 35 for Prez is not unreasonable, and 30 for Congress and Senate seem ok to me. Kids can be idiots, and a bit of maturity is necessary.

      But there should definitely be maximum ages as well. Under 60 to stand for federal election, Prez, Congresscrittter or Senator. Politicians should have an interest in the future beyond the next year or two.

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by bradley13 on Saturday October 09 2021, @09:38AM (6 children)

    by bradley13 (3053) on Saturday October 09 2021, @09:38AM (#1185736) Homepage Journal

    Civil servants already have decent Healthcare. There's really no need for an extra program.

    Given the vagueness of the symptoms, this will just be abused.

    --
    Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Opportunist on Saturday October 09 2021, @09:46AM

      by Opportunist (5545) on Saturday October 09 2021, @09:46AM (#1185739)

      Given the vagueness of the symptoms, this will just be abused.

      You really sure that the future tense is the correct one to use here? I wonder how many really have some kind of symptom, how many just have them because they hear enough about it and how many just don't want to do any work.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @01:26PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @01:26PM (#1185763)

      The reason this was addressed is that this is not covered by any healthcare, because it is not a recognized malady.

    • (Score: -1, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @03:35PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @03:35PM (#1185786)

      It was caused by crickets and the main thing is that it's not a workplace illness, so whatever equivalent to workers comp applies to foreign diplomats probably wouldn't apply. I hadn't even realized that there were people claiming that this was caused by Russian magnet machines until a few days ago, the last I had heard was that it was most likely crickets.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10 2021, @01:31PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10 2021, @01:31PM (#1185917)

        People suffering from this have undergone MRIs and damage to brain tissue was found.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10 2021, @11:08PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10 2021, @11:08PM (#1186010)

          So? That doesn't rule out crickets, it's hardly unprecedented for sounds to cause seizures and other brain issues.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Tork on Saturday October 09 2021, @07:00PM

      by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 09 2021, @07:00PM (#1185813)

      Civil servants already have decent Healthcare.

      Ask the surviving 9-11 first responders about that.

      --
      🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:00AM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:00AM (#1185740)

    That would hinder counterintelligence and reveal methods used against "our enemies."

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:41AM (3 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:41AM (#1185744) Journal

      Yeah, maybe . . .

      Are we playing with something crazy, and hurting our own people? But it's so secret we can't let anyone even know that there is a secret. So far, the lame explanations I've seen are just too stupid to be true. Our adversaries have mounted microwave dishes to target our people so they can control our people's minds?

      Maybe that's why I feel drawn to the microwave in the kitchen. It's controlling my mind, forcing me to eat more.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @04:51PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @04:51PM (#1185795)

        The last I heard is that it was most likely crickets causing the hearing loss. Crickets can be quite loud, especially if there's a bunch of them. The rest of it, I only recently heard and is absolutely insane.

        https://www.livescience.com/64437-crickets-sonic-attack.html [livescience.com]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:11PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:11PM (#1185847)

          If the federal government is offering free money to people with this unknown nebulous syndrome I am just going to pretend that I have this syndrome and collect. I have crickets in my garage that I can't seem to get rid of. Perhaps a foreign government planted them there to drive me crazy. Yeah, that's what I will tell the federal government. Biden would probably believe it. He and Trump probably have the same syndrome, it would explain a lot ...

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:41PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:41PM (#1185851)

            If no one knows what it is or what's causing it then prove I don't have it or else pay me.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @04:07PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @04:07PM (#1185789)

      They have, it's just that the news media makes more pretending that it's Russians than admitting that it's probably just crickets.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by shortscreen on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:51AM (2 children)

    by shortscreen (2252) on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:51AM (#1185745) Journal

    1) They're making up stories.
    2) The fear mongering intended for the general public is now causing government agents themselves to have persecutory delusions.
    3) They're being haunted by the spirits of CIA torture victims.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10 2021, @04:09PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10 2021, @04:09PM (#1185936)

      4) Glowies are extracting more $$$ for themselves by making up fake symptoms. Probably money laundering as well

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday October 10 2021, @08:28PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 10 2021, @08:28PM (#1185972) Journal
      5) They figured it out and are now paying out for a US-caused problem. If they're paying, then someone doesn't think it's just hysteria. And the common factor apparently is being near an embassy.

      This may be as close to admitting guilt as the US will come until the real story comes out, say in a few decades.
  • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @11:12AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @11:12AM (#1185746)

    He thought he was signing something to do with Agent Orange.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @03:22PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @03:22PM (#1185784)

      Russian Agent Orange?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @08:35PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @08:35PM (#1185827)

      He couldn't let Agent Orange roam free curing everyone's COVID with super doses of Vitality C Majoris!1!!

  • (Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @11:45AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @11:45AM (#1185751)

    Luckily for me, Amazon has what I desire. Just search for yourself for inflatable sheep!

    * Apron Great for BBQs: https://www.amazon.com/OYSRONG-Comics-Cartoon-Kitchen-Cooking/dp/B01CDTAA7S [amazon.com]

    She is a beauty isn't she?

    * https://www.amazon.com/Naughty-Inflatable-Sheep-Backdoor-Pleasure/dp/B00N39DJO4/ [amazon.com]

    I think I'm in love! Swoons

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10 2021, @02:55AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10 2021, @02:55AM (#1185883)

      Ok, that's slightly funny. But if I was giving someone that apron as a gag gift I would put two googly eyes on it.

  • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @11:50AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @11:50AM (#1185752)

    Luckily for me, Amazon has what I desire. Just search for yourself for inflatable sheep!

    * Apron Great for BBQs: https://www.amazon.com/OYSRONG-Comics-Cartoon-Kitchen-Cooking/dp/B01CDTAA7S [amazon.com]

    She is a beauty isn't she?

    * https://www.amazon.com/Naughty-Inflatable-Sheep-Backdoor-Pleasure/dp/B00N39DJO4/T [amazon.com]

    I think I'm in love!

    • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @11:54AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @11:54AM (#1185753)

      they are jealous of your ability to wear that apron and give that sheep a great time!

      yes, she sure is a beauty. They don't make them like that in nature anymore, you have to doll them up.

  • (Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Saturday October 09 2021, @12:02PM (4 children)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Saturday October 09 2021, @12:02PM (#1185754)

    so they get their benefits in full and on time, before taking care of diplomats with inexplicably ringing ears.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @01:29PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @01:29PM (#1185765)

      Republicans keep blocking VA reforms. Vote them out first and a lot of beneficial changes for regular folk will be possible.

      • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @02:14PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @02:14PM (#1185772)

        LOL... Biden is a democrat, you idiot.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @04:47PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @04:47PM (#1185794)

          Your brain worm must be breeding.

    • (Score: 1) by Cyrix6x86 on Saturday October 09 2021, @05:15PM

      by Cyrix6x86 (13569) on Saturday October 09 2021, @05:15PM (#1185802)

      No reason they can't do both.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by looorg on Saturday October 09 2021, @02:11PM (1 child)

    by looorg (578) on Saturday October 09 2021, @02:11PM (#1185770)

    Waaaait. Wasn't it just a few weeks ago when that last senior stooge at the CIA got hit and they didn't even know what exactly the "havana syndrome" was or what caused it but now they are already offering up compensation for something caused by an unknown cause. Either they know, or they don't, but they are paying up for something with somewhat vague symptoms? Lots of analysts and employees that can probably have headaches and migraines and whatever other symptoms there are again for a sweet little extra payday or some extra vacation days.

    • (Score: 2) by loonycyborg on Saturday October 09 2021, @03:33PM

      by loonycyborg (6905) on Saturday October 09 2021, @03:33PM (#1185785)

      They definitely could use a less stressy work environment.

  • (Score: 3, Disagree) by mcgrew on Saturday October 09 2021, @02:41PM (8 children)

    by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday October 09 2021, @02:41PM (#1185778) Homepage Journal

    All the comments except this one are bad jokes and conspiracy theories. Did I go to slashdot by mistake?

    --
    mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Saturday October 09 2021, @03:03PM (7 children)

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Saturday October 09 2021, @03:03PM (#1185780) Journal

      Honestly, TFA itself is the bad joke and conspiracy theory. "Havana Syndrome?" What exactly is that, a headache and a serious case of collywobbles?

      Reality has become fiction.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @04:53PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @04:53PM (#1185797)

        Havana Syndrome is where a bunch of crickets create a noise so loud that it damages the hearing of diplomats. It's been solved ages ago, but it doesn't drive enough clicks to get covered.

        https://www.livescience.com/64437-crickets-sonic-attack.html [livescience.com]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @05:15PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @05:15PM (#1185803)

          Whatever it is, it's not cricket [thefreedictionary.com].

          --
          Who will compensate me for Hava Nagila [wikipedia.org] syndrome?

      • (Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Saturday October 09 2021, @07:04PM (1 child)

        by Dr Spin (5239) on Saturday October 09 2021, @07:04PM (#1185814)

        "Havana Syndrome?" What exactly is that, a headache and a serious case of collywobbles?

        Real Havana Syndrome is caused by excess of fine rum.

        This is happening in Embassies all over the world - its probably caused by inferior rum,
        or even inferior, but over-priced, bourbon.

        --
        Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:05PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:05PM (#1185845)

          In Havana? They were inhaling some fine Cubano cigars and got lightheaded and nauseous.

      • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday October 11 2021, @02:38PM (2 children)

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Monday October 11 2021, @02:38PM (#1186142) Homepage Journal

        I've seen reports of brain damage.

        --
        mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11 2021, @03:22PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11 2021, @03:22PM (#1186160)

          Too much coke and hookers.

        • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday October 11 2021, @03:59PM

          by Phoenix666 (552) on Monday October 11 2021, @03:59PM (#1186175) Journal

          Brain damage is known to be caused by excessive Blackberry usage, such as government employees do.

          --
          Washington DC delenda est.
  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday October 09 2021, @05:05PM (3 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Saturday October 09 2021, @05:05PM (#1185801) Journal

    Just change their diet to something more yummy [independent.co.uk], and they'll be fine

    --
    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by captain normal on Saturday October 09 2021, @06:35PM (2 children)

      by captain normal (2205) on Saturday October 09 2021, @06:35PM (#1185812)

      Are there the same type of crickets in India, Vietnam and Germany as in Cuba? I know there are lots of crickets in southern India and in Thailand and Malaysia (which are not that far from Vietnam). I have been in those countries and there were a lot of other things that made noise all night besides crickets, and the only headaches I had were from too much beer, gin or arrack.
      I do think that sonic weapons are a real thing.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_weapon [wikipedia.org]
      Also sonic weapons have been used as counter surveillance devices. I do think it odd that the U.S. State Dept. is signing on to the crickets cause. Maybe someone is using our own weapons against us or perhaps our own counter surveillance devices are causing the symptoms. Just maybe is as the old Pogo Possum comic pointed out, "we is our on worse enemy".
      https://theconversation.com/sonic-attacks-in-china-and-cuba-how-sound-can-be-a-weapon-97380 [theconversation.com]

      --
      When life isn't going right, go left.
      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday October 09 2021, @07:54PM

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Saturday October 09 2021, @07:54PM (#1185819) Journal

        Yeah, they're not talking. The "mystery" is a cover for something they're not ready to reveal yet, kinda like the early "stealth fighter" days

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
      • (Score: 2) by anubi on Saturday October 09 2021, @11:05PM

        by anubi (2828) on Saturday October 09 2021, @11:05PM (#1185854) Journal

        Can they use a spectrum analyzer in the audio/ultrasonic range to detect acoustical energy in the area? A little statistical analysis should indicate if anything is amiss.

        Here's a crude measurement device I've used for detection of unintended ultrasonic audio emission from SMPS ( magnetostrictive). Several years ago, I had built a SMPS that made several of my coworkers ill, as well as giving me headaches I thought were due to something else.

        Lesson learned... Check for ultrasound if it can possibly emit any. Saves embarrassing customer complaints. I discovered ultrasound annoys the hell out of young people, especially young women!

        https://aapks.com/download.php?dl=37127347 [aapks.com]

        Md5 / Virus total

        https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/4ff057d2a7fc407e54148c3d55b0ab86e430232a4770d8117019732f44d6594c/details [virustotal.com]

        --
        "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
  • (Score: 2) by Username on Saturday October 09 2021, @06:01PM (2 children)

    by Username (4557) on Saturday October 09 2021, @06:01PM (#1185808)

    I understand why embassies existed, but not why they're needed in the internet age.

    Also, WTF, a CIA Director went to a country that we are allied against, and what happened is a surprise?

    I am surprised they didn't just drone strike him, like we did to that Iranian guy in Iraq.

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 09 2021, @08:10PM (1 child)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 09 2021, @08:10PM (#1185825) Journal

      not why they're needed in the internet age.

      When the natives are chasing you, Indiana Jones style, it's hard to dive into an internet embassy to seek asylum. It's much easier to dive through the open gates of a physical embassy.

      • (Score: 2) by Username on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:19PM

        by Username (4557) on Saturday October 09 2021, @10:19PM (#1185849)

        Well, if you go to rome and don't do like the romans do, then you kind of deserve it. Probably shouldn't have been in rome. People shouldn't be using embassies to evade law enforcement. Just abusing the system.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by hendrikboom on Saturday October 09 2021, @08:13PM (2 children)

    by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 09 2021, @08:13PM (#1185826) Homepage Journal

    They are looking for *who* is responsible.
    Shouldn't they start out by finding to cause and only then assume that someone is responsible?

    • (Score: 2) by Tork on Sunday October 10 2021, @12:13AM (1 child)

      by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 10 2021, @12:13AM (#1185859)
      Why is this modal?
      --
      🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
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