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Journal by jdavidb
Yesterday I realized the left didn't originate virtue signalling. Ever heard the phrase "support the troops"? "Backing the blue"?
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Frankfort, Kentucky, makes it against the law to shoot off a policeman's tie.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @09:12PM
If you're interested in the topic, there are people that study the moral frameworks of liberals vs. conservatives and how this affects political discussion. These fundamental differences in values also affects how ineffective each side is at convincing the other (e.g. conservatives make ineffective appeals to authority and loyalty to liberals and liberals make ineffective appeals to fairness and protecting others).
Using gun control as an example:
Stereotypical conservative argument against gun control (loyalty, authority, purity) - Guns ownership is a fundamental right that America was founded on. The Founding Fathers were very clear on this topic and any deviation from this would be perverting what they stood for.
Stereotypical liberal argument for gun control (protecting others, fairness) - It is incomprehensible that the US has one of the highest gun-related death rates in the world. So many innocents are dying, preventable deaths, due to the high gun-ownership. Furthermore, these gun-related deaths are disproportionately affecting the poor and marginalized.
Atypical conservative argument for gun control (purity, authority, loyalty) - Real Americans know the value of gun ownership. We were taught how to properly use guns to put food on our table and to defend our homes. The Founding Fathers knew this and made sure that real Americans had the right to bear arms. If the Founding Fathers could see what has become of the people in this country, they would be disgusted. This country is full deviants, criminals, and people from "who knows where" - these people are not real Americans, they do not use guns to get food or to defend their families, they use guns to steal from hard-working Americans and even take their lives. We must prevent these deviants from having guns and ensure that guns are only available for the real Americans in this country.
Atypical liberal argument against gun control (fairness, protecting others) - We all know that many of the laws in this country unfairly target certain groups of people. We also know that even the few fair laws are unjustly enforced against minorities and the poor. It will be of no surprise to you that the "right to bear arms" was limited to white men. Did you know that Tennessee limited its constitutional rights of gun ownership from "freemen" to "free white men" after Nat Turner used guns to free the enslaved people of the state? Have you heard about "stop and frisk"? Gun laws are still used as an excuse to discriminate against people of color. Have you heard of the Black Lives Matter movement? Police do not even hesitate to murder unarmed black people. Gun laws do not protect us; gun laws are a tool used by oppressors to keep the downtrodden down.
Paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26445854 [nih.gov]
Netcast discussion with one of the authors: https://youarenotsosmart.com/2016/11/04/yanss-088-how-to-bridge-the-political-divide-with-better-moral-arguments/ [youarenotsosmart.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Friday February 24 2017, @03:53AM
I rather like your atypical liberal response. But, the thing is - it is the liberals themselves who target mostly black minority and black majority populations with strict gun control laws. The unspoken understanding is that blacks can't be trusted to legally own weapons. There have been a lot of discussions about gun laws being racist, but no one addresses the fact that liberals are the racists who would deny black people the same rights that white people enjoy outside of those black population areas.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 24 2017, @06:24AM
The unspoken understanding is that blacks can't be trusted to legally own weapons.
This is incorrect. The tacit implication is that Southerners cannot be trusted to have weapons. See: Civil War. Especially Arkansasianiacs. Totally untrustworthy. Bad shots, as well. And, they can't spell.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 24 2017, @03:43PM
I rather like your atypical liberal response.
That is part of the desired effect of decreasing political polarization. Political issues are not simply "good versus evil" or "right versus wrong" and neither liberals nor conservatives are "trying to destroy America". The vast majority of people want what is best for the country and they take political positions that are consistent with what they believe is morally correct or, at least, the greatest moral good. When people understand where the other person is coming from, then there can be some agreement on common ground and discussions can be be more productive.
it is the liberals themselves [...] liberals are the racists
What you are saying is too polarizing to be effective at convincing liberals that the implementation of gun control is unfair. You start off by framing your point as "us versus them", which is effective if you're preaching to the choir but ineffective otherwise. Accusing the other side of being "racist" is going to immediately put them on the defensive as it is not only a very emotionally charged term, but it is also attacking an intrinsic part of their identity and any acceptance of your view would force them to completely change their perceptions of themselves. It is best to only argue that the other side is not racist, but that specific actions or what they say can be considered "racist" because this allows them to concede that they were in the wrong without "racist" becoming part of their identity.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 24 2017, @05:58PM
Liberals do not want what is best for the country because they see themselves as "citizens of the world". It's nonsense of course, but they believe it. This effectively puts them on a path of trying to destroy America, though they wouldn't put it that way. They just want open borders, allowing the entire 3rd world to move here and get welfare.
(this ends badly for the liberals: thrown from buildings, stoned, beheaded...)
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Saturday February 25 2017, @03:27AM
They just want open borders, allowing the entire 3rd world to move here and get welfare.
Dr. Walter Williams used to always answer comments like that by saying "that's a problem of socialism, not a problem of freedom." And I presume he's Republican since he used to guest host for Rush Limbaugh.
Weird how Republicans want big-government border policies rather than to let the free market solve this problem.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday February 24 2017, @06:27PM
*cough*
Pretty much what the other AC said. The way-out-there crowd is constantly accusing those who are not-left of being racists. I don't WANT to find any common ground with that bunch. I want to expose them as the hypocrites that they are.
Let's put it this way - if George Soros and everyone who has ever taken his money, then done his bidding, were all to drop dead tonight, the world would be a better place. Soros funds, directly or indirectly, all of the craziest of the far left. Any compromise with Soros is a compromise with the devil.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 25 2017, @06:39PM
I want to expose them as the hypocrites that they are.
You will not be effective at convincing liberals that they are hypocrites when you use inflammatory phrases and you will also be much less effective at convincing centrists. If your goal is to troll liberals or to rile-up conservatives, then feel free to carry on.
[If liberals] were all to drop dead tonight
Whether you like it or not, people who consider themselves liberals make up 24% (conservatives are 37%) of Americans. Also, Americans that have liberal views on social issues have recently matched the percentage of conservative views (31%). I should also mention that both of those percentages have been growing since 1992 at the expense of the conservative numbers.
I don't WANT to find any common ground with that bunch. [...] a compromise with the devil
Perhaps you are not concerned about the future of the country. If you are, then finding common ground with moderate-liberals and negotiating with them in good faith will become necessary as obstructionism is not a viable long-term strategy with dwindling conservative numbers.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/188129/conservatives-hang-ideology-lead-thread.aspx [gallup.com]
http://www.gallup.com/poll/183386/social-ideology-left-catches-right.aspx [gallup.com]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 26 2017, @03:44AM
"moderate-liberals"
The moderates need to find better spokesmen then. The right and moderate-right rejected all of the party's selected spokesmen, and settled on Trump. Have you also noticed that the neocons who usurped the party a couple administrations back, have all but disappeared? The left needs to do something similar. The Bern appeared to be that something similar, until the party threw him under the bus. When the moderates find their voice, then maybe we can have a discussion, and find some kind of compromise.
The only left voices we hear in America today are toxic left voices.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Sunday February 26 2017, @01:34PM
The right and moderate-right rejected all of the party's selected spokesmen, and settled on Trump. Have you also noticed that the neocons who usurped the party a couple administrations back, have all but disappeared?
Trump still seems to be running the neocon playbook.
One of the most disappointing aspects of Trump’s immigration edicts is that he is clearly signaling that he intends to follow the same direction as his two predecessors, George W. Bush and Barack Obama. What Trump is essentially saying is this: “Under my administration, the Pentagon and the CIA will continue killing people, dropping bombs, and firing missiles in Middle East and Afghanistan, as they have been doing (obviously without success) for the past 25 years. But I promise to do my try to keep you safe from terrorist retaliation by banning anybody in or near those areas from coming to the United States and possibly doing harm to you.” [fff.org]
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 26 2017, @01:44PM
That's not the neocon agenda, actually. That is more the military-industrial complex, which Eisenhower warned us about.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/16/inside-ike-s-farewell-warning-the-military-industrial-complex.html [thedailybeast.com]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_complex [wikipedia.org]
It is easy to confuse the two different agendas, because they are run by many of the same people, to feed similar motivations of greed. But, while the membership may overlap, they remain separate. As a rule, corporations make more money during times of peace, but the military industrial complex makes more money during times of war.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.