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posted by martyb on Thursday April 13 2017, @01:03AM   Printer-friendly
from the it-is-not-the-law...-yet dept.

Alabama lawmakers have voted 24-4 to allow Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Birmingham to establish a police department. The church has over 4,000 members and is also home to a K-12 school and a theological seminary with 2,000 students and teachers:

"After the shooting at Sandy Hook and in the wake of similar assaults at churches and schools, Briarwood recognized the need to provide qualified first responders to coordinate with local law enforcement," church administrator Matt Moore said in a statement, referring to the mass murder of 20 first graders and six teachers at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut by a deranged man with an AR-15 style rifle just before Christmas 2012. "The sole purpose of this proposed legislation is to provide a safe environment for the church, its members, students and guests." The church would pay the bill for its officers.

[...] "It's our view this would plainly be unconstitutional," Randall Marshall, the ACLU's Acting Executive Director, told NBC News. In a memo to the legislature, Marshall said they believe the bills "violate the First Amendment or the U.S. Constitution and, if enacted, would not survive a legal challenge." "Vesting state police powers in a church police force violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment," his memo states. "These bills unnecessarily carve out special programs for religious organizations and inextricably intertwine state authority and power with church operations."


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  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @01:20AM (21 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @01:20AM (#493191)

    Funny, that a Christian church should be questioned when they want a police force - but Muslims aren't questioned at all. As has been pointed out multiple times, Islam is not a "religion", but a political, judicial, AND religious movement. By definition, Islam empowers it's own police force, it's own court, it's own judges. But, do you ask any rhetorical questions about Islam's presence in the United States?

    I agree - WTF are people thinking?

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @01:42AM (14 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @01:42AM (#493197)

    And Christianity is not a political, judicial, AND religious movement? 10 commandments at courthouses? "In god we trust" on all your money? Have you never heard an American politician speak? I admit they are hard to understand sometimes cause they are gargling Jesus' balls pretty hard.

    Full disclosure: I'm an Atheist and think people are free to believe in whatever nonsense they want, but no religion should be endorsed or given preferential treatment by the state.

    • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @02:14AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @02:14AM (#493213)

      You're not paying attention to history at all. At one point in time, The Church ruled supreme throughout most of Europe. At a later point in time, The Church ruled - but less supremely - throughout Europe and the New World. Since then, the authority of The Church has been eroded drastically.

      Now, if you're worried about a Christian church creating it's own police force, then you MUST reject the presence of Islam in the US, or you are a hypocrite. At least Christian churches have that "render unto Caesar" teaching. Islam has nothing similar. Islam DEMANDS that all governments submit to Islam and Sharia law. Islam does not recognize any government's legitimacy.

      Make up your mind here. Either Islam is permitted to subvert the American government, or they are not. The same decision must apply to both. Anything else, and you are a hypocrite.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @02:24AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @02:24AM (#493222)

      "Islam is a revolutionary faith that comes to destroy any government made by man. … Islam doesn’t care about the land or who owns the land. The goal of Islam is to rule the entire world and submit all of mankind to the faith of Islam. Any nation or power that gets in the way of that goal, Islam will fight and destroy. In order to fulfill that goal, Islam can use every power available every way it can be used to bring worldwide revolution. This is Jihad.” -- Sayeed Abdul A’la Maududi, founder of Jamaat-e-Islami.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Hairyfeet on Thursday April 13 2017, @04:13AM (11 children)

      by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Thursday April 13 2017, @04:13AM (#493247) Journal

      Christian nutballs have killed less people in 30 years than Islam dirtbags have killed in the last 6 months. When the Christians start racking up triple digits damned near every month? THEN you might have a point...oh wait except you wouldn't even then (which just FYI is never gonna happen) because the Christians all rush to CONDEMN the nutballs that kill in the name of Jesus, not cut a check to their families for their service to God and treat them as martyrs instead of the shitstains they really are.

      Why stupid fucking middle class white people can't seem to grasp this is beyond me, but its REALLY simple...the other religions grew the fuck up, Islam didn't. And this is a really big deal because when the other religions were stoning women and chopping hands off of thieves? The most dangerous weapon they had was slings and arrows, not Sarin gas and dirty bombs. Until Islam grows the fuck up like the other religions they need to be treated just like the communists were, they need to be isolated with as little contact with them as humanly possible. Let them keep their oil and sit in the sand and rot until they grow the fuck up and accept that other people have the right to not believe their bullshit and be left alone.

        Until the day comes when they are not stoning rape victims and throwing gays off of roofs? No contact should be the rule of the day.

      --
      ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @05:19AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @05:19AM (#493260)

        Christian nutballs have killed less people in 30 years than Islam dirtbags have killed in the last 6 months.

        Do we count the Irish Republican Army or the US Army in those numbers? Are we taking into account all of the civil wars in the Middle East where they mostly kill each other, mostly caused by the US destabilizing those countries? Or do we only count mass shootings and other "terrorist" attacks, which ones do we count, and which ones do we not since they are not caused by Muslims and are therefore "not really terrorist attacks, you know"?

        Looking from outside of the US, it sure looks like the most deadly, irrational, destabilizing influence in the world today is the US :/

        World police, my ass.

        • (Score: 2) by GungnirSniper on Thursday April 13 2017, @05:34AM (2 children)

          by GungnirSniper (1671) on Thursday April 13 2017, @05:34AM (#493263) Journal

          Not this fallacy again. Are the IRA or US Army killing people for the purpose of advancing Christianity? No.

          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @07:13AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @07:13AM (#493283)

            Not this fallacy again. Are the IRA or US Army killing people for the purpose of advancing Christianity? No.

            The Lord's Resistance Army sure the fuck is and the Pope just apologized for the catholic church's complicity in the Rwandan genocide.
            Don't forget the Bosnian genocide of muslims at the hands of christians either.

            Meanwhile ISIS is mostly killing other muslims, regular muslims who aren't killing anyone for the purpose of advancing anything.
            When the vast majority of muslims think ISIS are unislamic assholes, [pewresearch.org] deciding that they are representative of islam is just motivated innumeracy.

          • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday April 14 2017, @08:22AM

            by FatPhil (863) <reversethis-{if.fdsa} {ta} {tnelyos-cp}> on Friday April 14 2017, @08:22AM (#493874) Homepage
            Straw man - he was countering "have killed less" not "have killed for the purpose of advancing their religion less".
            --
            I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
        • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Thursday April 13 2017, @06:16PM

          by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Thursday April 13 2017, @06:16PM (#493529) Journal

          I'll just leave this here [youtube.com] completely debunking your argument but protip: The IRA didn't have diddle shit to do with religion, they didn't target civilians, and again killed less in 30 years than the Islamists do in 6 months.

          --
          ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @06:44AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @06:44AM (#493280)

        Christian nutballs have killed less people in 30 years than Islam dirtbags have killed in the last 6 months.

        Meh..ISTR Christians and their stooges directly killing about 100,000 people in the Iraq debacle, 26,000 in the Afghan debacle, if you want to talk figures deaths caused indirectly by the shit-stirring actions of your 'Christian nutballs', well, Iraq the total jumps to 250,000 or so, Afghanistan you get 91,000, by destroying Libya you get around 400,000.

        Point is, fine, followers of Islam are nutjobs, but so are Christians..I also feel the need to point you to 33,000 people being killed each year, something like 3 per hour shot dead in that fine upstanding Christian country that is the US, maybe because that's nominally-Christians killing fellow nominally-Christians in your eyes that's somehow 'different' or 'acceptable', maybe the last thought that goes through their head is 'well, thank fuck at least I wasn't murdered by a fucking Islamic dirtbag..'

        Christians all rush to CONDEMN the nutballs that kill in the name of Jesus...

        John 8:7, their book, and I don't see a lot of people in allegedly Christian governments practising that one...

        ...not cut a check to their families for their service to God and treat them as martyrs instead of the shitstains they really are.

        I refer you to the way you turn state paid thugs (aka Military) into 'heroes' when they get killed, and hell, they've even got a whole welfare infrastructure supporting them and their families as well.

        Why stupid fucking middle class white people can't seem to grasp this is beyond me, but its REALLY simple...the other religions grew the fuck up, Islam didn't.

        If we're going to play the 'grow the fuck up' card, it took Christianity 2000 years (give or take, lets round it) to get to this point, Islam started 700 years later (again, rounded date), so, lets see a summary of where Christian countries were 700 years or so ago... [wikipedia.org], well, lookie see, Christians killing other Christians, the church splitting, Jews getting it in the neck for being Jews..and, let's not forget, the rolling party that was the Inquisition started to pick up the pace, peaking somewhere in the 1500s and only finally ran out of steam in the 1800s..wasn't a good time to be a heretical Christian either.

        And this is a really big deal because when the other religions were stoning women and chopping hands off of thieves?

        Last heretic killed by the Inquisition?, 1826 in Christian Spain
        Last of the 50,000 or so 'witches' killed in Europe?, 1782 in Christian Switzerland.
        Historically speaking, not that long ago.

        The most dangerous weapon they had was slings and arrows, not Sarin gas and dirty bombs.

        Oh, look here [wikipedia.org] and here [wikipedia.org] FFS!, or track down some books on the subject..

        Until the day comes when they are not stoning rape victims and throwing gays off of roofs? No contact should be the rule of the day

        I refer you to the way rape victims are treated by the system in the west (Disclaimer: one of my sisters was raped, and not a fuck was given by the system, so I'm slightly bitter here), as for gays, I refer you to Alan Turing and his forced Chemical Castration, way back in the mists of time, or the 1950s if you prefer.

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Thursday April 13 2017, @07:40AM (4 children)

        by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday April 13 2017, @07:40AM (#493293) Journal

        I demand to know, who killed Hairyfeet? Obviously he has been killed, killed dead and non-existent, since the person posting under this nom-de-internet is clearly not the original hippy geek that enjoyed fixing computers for the straights. I prefer to think that Hairfeet is dead, than to admit that old age can so violently twist a liberal leaning normal person into a Right-wing _Nut-job. So, who ever you are, I suggest you relinquish control of Hairyfeet's account, and let him rest in peace. Because right now, even this Hairyfeet cannot pass the Hairyfeet Challenge.
        .
          Hairyfeet, you are dead. I know, since I see dead people, and they do not even know they are dead. But this is one of the first signs: if you find yourself agreeing with Bill O'Reilly, you may already be dead. They are just keeping you alive, technically, so you can vote in the next elections. Do not let yourself be used in this way, Hairyfeet! Next thing your know, necrophilia and spare parts harvesting. Did I not tell you to stay away from the alt-right? Poor bastard, Hairyfeet. If only he still had a Challenge. If you fail the Challenge, Hairyfeet used to throw you off the roof, no homosexuality required! Only not being a Micro$oft shill.

        --
        #Freearistarchus, again!!!!!1!!
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @07:46AM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @07:46AM (#493297)

          Even liberals can't ignore the San Bernardino and Pulse nightclub attacks. But I guess you didn't notice those particular 63 dead people.

          • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday April 13 2017, @08:33AM (1 child)

            by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday April 13 2017, @08:33AM (#493302) Journal

            Oh, dear, my precious AC! Yes, people have died. They sometimes die for really stupid reasons. You memory, however, is very, very short term. As a 2400 year old philosopher, let me remind you of some more recent atrocities, to allow you to balance your perspective.

            Just hearing a lot on the radio (Alright, NPR, you might not hear of this if you are listening to Hannity, but if you are, there is your problem) about Jim Jones and his People's Temple: 900 people drank the Koolaid. (Funny, the radio reports keep saying something like "dried powdered fruit punch": It was Koolaid, People's of the Temple! This is where we get the phrase "Drank the koolaid" as in "jmorris has drank the koolaid". And Hairyfeet? He drank the Microsoft Koolaid, and then he got "better", but it hasn't made a difference on his wacko political positions.

            .
            Speaking of Waco, The Branch Davidian! Koresh was the re-incarnation of Jesus, which as I understand it, means you were obligated to have sex with him, and stockpile automatic weapons. Alright, it was Texas, so to the neighbors it was not all that unusual. But still, a lot of folks, many of them children, died in the standoff, one that did not have to happen if the leader had not been batshit-nutjob-insane. 86 dead.
            .
            Oklahoma City, right-wing nut-job vet. 168 casualties. Evil bastard blew up a day care. Babies. Even the Donald recognizes that this is wrong.
            .
            Kent State? Only four.
            .
            Haymarket?
            .
            Homestead Strike? Pinkertons, the "Blackwater" of the day.

            .
            So what is your point, AC? A very few religious crazies have killed a very few number of Americans? Kind of like totaling up the Lord's Resistance Army's number of kill of abortion doctors, isn't it? Or as I prefer to do, the number of deaths of church groups in buses going to or from the casinos or whorehouses that are killed by some idiot Christian Texan in a Dually who is texting so hard as to cross the centerline? What is your point, AC? Do I have to come over there and point out to you that I will not kill you, today? But that God may well kill you tomorrow, for no goddamned reason. God is like that. Ask not, for he works in mysterious ways, and one of those mysterious ways may be just killing you, or giving our dear Hairyfeet some well deserved dementia. Helps him sleep at night, after he has got all those youngers off his damn lawn. And trust me, having been alive as long as I have, I have seen this go down many, many times. You should pray for mercy, so you do not end up like Hairyfeet. Poor, poor bastard.

            --
            #Freearistarchus, again!!!!!1!!
            • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday April 13 2017, @06:15PM

              by HiThere (866) on Thursday April 13 2017, @06:15PM (#493528) Journal

              Your rant would have been more impressive if it had been based in the same time-frame that you were responding to. And it could have been.

              --
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          • (Score: 2) by butthurt on Monday April 17 2017, @07:58PM

            by butthurt (6141) on Monday April 17 2017, @07:58PM (#495459) Journal

            Yes, and how can anyone espouse liberalism after the Charleston church shooting?

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @01:48AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 13 2017, @01:48AM (#493201)

    Yes, but unlike in Dearborn, MI, this time they actually can enforce Christian-branded Sharia law.

    I'm not aware of a Mosque that's managed to get a status like this in the USA.

    If you like bacon, run for the hills!

  • (Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Thursday April 13 2017, @04:14AM (4 children)

    by fido_dogstoyevsky (131) <{axehandle} {at} {gmail.com}> on Thursday April 13 2017, @04:14AM (#493248)

    ...Islam is not a "religion", but a political, judicial, AND religious movement. By definition, Islam empowers it's own police force, it's own court, it's own judges...

    In the US?

    --
    It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by aristarchus on Thursday April 13 2017, @07:57AM (3 children)

      by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday April 13 2017, @07:57AM (#493299) Journal

      In the US?

      Yes. But of course, it is not possible. But we have many cowards and pansies, like jmorris (I spit upon his buttocks!) and Runaway 1992 (may he be covered in paisley! ) who are so afraid of what they do not understand, that they think that another thing they do not understand (the US Constitution) would allow Sharia law to be imposed in the America, so that Runaway, for example, would have to get all gay married and wear a hijab, but as I said, these people are idiots.
      .
      Do you know who else has it's own law, and courts? Yes! Christians! The Bastards? These fucking Christians are trying to impose their law upon the rest of us, saying that if a Priest rapes a young boy, it is a religious experience (right? Runaway? Why did you runaway? You have only told half of the story. . . ), and that women cannot control their own bodies, and that if the Pope says a war is unjust, like Bush's adventure in Irag, then America is a war criminal. But we knew all of that already.
      .
            Did you know that the Church (not you, you pretend protestants! And especially not you, you Mormons who are not even Christian!) has it's own Ecclesiastical Courts, that follow Canon Law, which claims to have universal jurisdiction? You, jmorris and Runaway, are probably already condemned to eternal hellfire, just for not being Catholic. Of course, maybe th Mormons have baptised you into their own version of Church law, so you are alright, as long as you have never drank alcohol, used tobacco, or had sex with a horse. On the other hand, it could be that the Mormon Law, or the Canon Law, or the Sharia Law, have absolutely not standing as Law under the Constitution of the United States of America, so all your cowering cowardice is for nought, you pathetic coward.

      --
      #Freearistarchus, again!!!!!1!!
      • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday April 13 2017, @06:28PM (2 children)

        by HiThere (866) on Thursday April 13 2017, @06:28PM (#493539) Journal

        The point isn't that it's the Christians, but rather that it's the religions. The Christians aren't really any worse than the Muslims, they just have access to more power.

        That said, while I don't like the religions being in power, I'm not totally sure that they're any worse than the Corporations (or any other centralized economic group, so say companies, but these days that's usually the Corporations, but historically that wasn't true). Their abuses are different, but that doesn't inherently make them worse. Of course, you could consider the centralized economic power as the religion of Mammon. And the worship of centralized authority could be considered the religion of Jupiter. So most of the groups that I don't think should hold power can be attributed to one religion or another, if you're willing to be flexible about your definitions.

        The problem is that centralized power inevitably becomes corrupt, even in its own terms. And this is because the people in charge are self-centered. In society this is inevitable as those who are driven to seek power always have an advantage over those who aren't in the acquisition of power. So over time the top position becomes more and more frequently occupied by some loon whose main goal in life is to grab power. Sometimes for his own advantage, as thats the most sane reason to seek power, but also sometimes just to hold and exercise power. This is the main reason I think a lottery might be be near-optimal form of office selection. You'd need a bunch of safeguards to decentralize power, as occasionally you might get a real winner, but look around the world today and say that it would actually be worse.

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        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
        • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday April 15 2017, @07:14AM (1 child)

          by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday April 15 2017, @07:14AM (#494327) Journal

          The problem is that centralized power inevitably becomes corrupt, even in its own terms.

          Ah, Lord Acton: "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely!" (Look it up, Here. [phrases.org.uk]

          Usually, I like to combine this observation with that of Sir Francis Bacon, who said: "Scientia est potentia." Or he did not, but only something similar. [wikipedia.org] So we end up with a tag line that I have seen on the internets, so it must be correct:

          Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

          Such poetry, it could have been Steve Bannon!

          And this is because the people in charge are self-centered.

          I will have to disagree with you here, Soylentil There, I think that those who are merely self-centered are not nearly as dangerous as the "true believers". Take President Trump (please!!!), if he is just in this to make money, the entire downfall of the United States might just go against his own self-interest. And I am sure that Jared and Ivanka will explain this to him in words he can understand. But those who think that they are part of some great plan? Those who are willing to sacrifice themselves, and all the rest of us, for what they perceive as some absolute value, like VP Pence does? Those are the ones that are the most truly corrupt, the most dangerous, the least able to see their hubris and folly, and therefore the ones to keep far away from the levers of power. These are the Anti-social Injustice Deplorables, the AIDs, and they cannot be reasoned with, they cannot be dissuaded, they will just keep coming, and coming, especially if they dine alone with a woman who is not their wife.

          --
          #Freearistarchus, again!!!!!1!!
          • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Saturday April 15 2017, @05:42PM

            by HiThere (866) on Saturday April 15 2017, @05:42PM (#494498) Journal

            You are only considering the person at the top rather than the entire bureaucracy. But it's true that an ideology is a potent means of centralizing control. Still, consider the difference between Lenin and Stalin.

            --
            Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.