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The Trump administration has rolled out a new questionnaire for U.S. visa applicants worldwide that asks for social media handles for the last five years and biographical information going back 15 years.
The new questions, part of an effort to tighten vetting of would-be visitors to the United States, was approved on May 23 by the Office of Management and Budget despite criticism from a range of education officials and academic groups during a public comment period.
Critics argued that the new questions would be overly burdensome, lead to long delays in processing and discourage international students and scientists from coming to the United States.
Under the new procedures, consular officials can request all prior passport numbers, five years' worth of social media handles, email addresses and phone numbers and 15 years of biographical information including addresses, employment and travel history.
Officials will request the additional information when they determine "that such information is required to confirm identity or conduct more rigorous national security vetting," a State Department official said on Wednesday.
The State Department said earlier the tighter vetting would apply to visa applicants "who have been determined to warrant additional scrutiny in connection with terrorism or other national security-related visa ineligibilities."
(Score: 5, Insightful) by KilroySmith on Saturday June 03 2017, @07:33PM (35 children)
Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to just stop making the rest of the world hate us?
(Score: 2) by BsAtHome on Saturday June 03 2017, @07:47PM (1 child)
That would be sensible, possibly cooperative and a sign of weakness. No, you have to squeeze harder and harder for optimal effect. For optimal job market opportunity, you assign one guard for each visitor and get the visitor to pay. Then when nobody wants to come anymore, you start to force people to come (by invasion of the neighbors, of course) and assure they pay for the privilege.
The new motto: You will like us, whether you like it or not.
(Score: 2) by davester666 on Saturday June 03 2017, @08:07PM
and you will give us all your money.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 03 2017, @08:11PM
I am in the rest of the world. If you stop being needlessly violent I am sure you will have less haters, but you won't eradicate terrorism nor the thirst for other nations to take your place as a superpower. First and foremost because the system is already one but feeds on internal conflict: no enemy, no justification for control over citizens. Second, because wars happened for mere excuses in the past, why should there be only valid reasons now?
Help desperate ones => remove terrorists has already be disproven by terrorists who were potentially already integrated. Help because it makes you a good nation, instead.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 03 2017, @08:27PM (28 children)
No.
I'm going to drop the political correctness and focus on the pink elephant behind all of this. That is of course Islamic immigrants. So the notion is if we just stop our militarism in the Mideast, perhaps they'd finally just leave us alone. Let's look at things realistically here. Muslims have been killing each other for about 1,400 years now. Why? A disagreement over succession that happened in the year 632. Literally, that is the one and only point of contention between Sunni and Shia. And that contention alone is seen as justification for one side killing the other. Even Islamic nations that people don't generally associate with radicalism like Indonesia can't seem to step away from radicalism. In the 60s as the US was going through its sexual revolution and civil rights movement, Indonesia was engaging in mass murders [wikipedia.org] of hundreds of thousands of its citizens seeking to kill off all "communist sympathizers, ethnic Chinese and alleged leftists." The death toll estimates range from 500k to 3 million. For comparison, in the entirety of WW2 and the holocaust it's estimated that about 6 million Jews were killed. Contrast that against our (from our perspective) absurd Red Scares which amounted to little more than some political witch hunts, deportations, and very limited imprisonment. For that matter even contrast it against our absolutely horrific lynchings and other sorts of violence. That is a massive stain on our past, yet it doesn't even remotely compare to the actions of this 'moderate' nation. It's only out of ignorance that we attribute positive characteristics to these nations.
If they haven't decided to stop killing each other after 1,500 years there is literally a 0% chance that anything we could ever do will make these countries stop hating us. I mean there are now terror attacks even in Germany. That country, perhaps more than any other, has absolutely gone to every single possible length to try to help and embrace these people. This does not mean I support our actions in the Mideast. Obviously, our militarism is stirring the hornet's nest. But these countries' and individuals' problems and issues go well beyond militarism. I don't know what the proper course of action is (or even if there is one...) but thinking everybody behaves rationally is, sadly, inaccurate.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday June 03 2017, @08:38PM (22 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1, Troll) by TheGratefulNet on Saturday June 03 2017, @08:41PM (4 children)
christianity is NOT islam!
nothing like it. not even close.
some similarities, but only cursory.
islam has, as its ROOT mission, to convert the earth to their religion. PERIOD. if you do not understand that, you understand nothing about that religion and how it 'works' with the 'infidels'.
folks, this is not - by definition - winnable. they won't change and so nothing will get better.
perhaps SLOWLY, over 2-10 generations, they might mellow out. but in our lifetime? not a chance in hell.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 5, Touché) by FatPhil on Saturday June 03 2017, @09:19PM
(And to the spectators out there, I'm sure he didn't expect that. Then again, noooooooone expects....)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 03 2017, @09:20PM (1 child)
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
-- Mark 16:15-16
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
-- Matthew 28:19
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Sunday June 04 2017, @01:24PM
Oops... sorry, this message was hidden and I didn't read it before I just posted. Sorry to duplicate info.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Sunday June 04 2017, @01:23PM
Um... Jesus's last words [biblegateway.com] on Earth before ascending into Heaven after this resurrection:
Or, another gospel account [biblegateway.com]:
Now, we can argue about the methods modern Muslims to use for their evangelization vs. the MODERN Christians. (Historically, Christians were often happy to massacre pagans who refused to convert too.) But you cannot pretend that the FOUNDATIONAL message of Christianity wasn't the conversion of all people to that religion.
That was, perhaps more than anything else, what differentiated early Christianity from Judaism. Jews had a traditional "tribal" God, who belonged to THEM, not others. The Christian God instead insisted that the message be spread to the entire world -- and if it wasn't, those people would go to hell.
Islam inherited the evangelical mission from Christianity.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Saturday June 03 2017, @11:14PM (16 children)
You assume that the two religions are alike. One was established by a man who said to love thy neighbor, and turn the other cheek. The other was established by a man who said to cut off the heads of infidels. The first was established by a man who said to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's - the other doesn't recognize the authority of any Caesar. I could go on, but that is more than sufficient to demonstrate that the two are not alike.
In it's early days, Christianity spread almost spontaneously. Islam has never been established anywhere except at the point of a sword.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @02:41AM (6 children)
In it's early days, Islam spread almost spontaneously too. In fact it was often driven out at the point of a sword, just like christianity.
Yeah. all those arabs conquered Malayasia. ::rolleyes::
In fact Islam was spread through out africa and south-east asia almost entirely by traders. [oureverydaylife.com] When it was spread by force it was usually on the back of conquests by people who just happened to be muslim. They weren't fighting crusades, they were fighting for stuff like nearly every other war. Also muslim slaves traded by christians. Sometimes the christians forcibly converted their slaves to christianity, like the 20%-30% of slaves in america who were originally muslim. [theroot.com] But some times their masters did the christian thing and let them keep their own religion like the dutch in south africa.
And yet, by nearly 2:1 christians in america see themselves as christian first and american second. [cnn.com]
Ted Cruz even campaigned on that.
Meanwhile Mo made this promise to christians: [jewishpost.com]
I'm sure you could. There is nothing easier than running your mouth about something you don't know jackshit about.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Sunday June 04 2017, @12:15PM (5 children)
"In it's early days, Islam spread almost spontaneously too. In fact it was often driven out at the point of a sword, just like christianity."
Uhhhh, which part of "sword" do you not understand? Mohammed was a CONQUEROR. There is nothing "spontaneous" about driving a sword through a man's throat if he won't agree that your god is the only god. Please don't post such silliness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_of_Muhammad [wikipedia.org] 28 separate expeditions, made by Mohammed personally. Are you suggesting that he won all of those battles without a sword, and that his followers didn't carry swords for him?
Islam is more like Judaism than it is like Christianity, but it doesn't even resemble Judaism very much. The Jews killed a lot of people, but they never forced anyone to become a Jew.
"Meanwhile Mo made this promise to christians: [jewishpost.com]"
Promises? Yes, promises that the Christians would be used as Islam's tools - "Be good to the Copts of Egypt; you shall take them over, but they shall be your instrument and help. Be Righteous to God about the Copts."
How many different ways can you say that you intend to enslave a people?
Tell me something: Why do you feel it necessary to apologize for Islam? Are you a Muslim? Islam's actions speak far more loudly than it's words - just as is true of Christianity and Judaism. Islam respects no one, and nothing, that is outside of Islam.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @01:27PM (3 children)
> Tell me something: Why do you feel it necessary to apologize for Islam?
Tell me something: Why do you feel it necessary to constantly lie about people who aren't part of your tribe?
(Score: 0, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Sunday June 04 2017, @03:23PM (2 children)
I don't lie - I read history. You have been lied to, when people claim that Islam is a "religion of peace". Islam only knows the peace of the grave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1dgpU [youtube.com]
Allahu akhbar!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @06:35PM
Half truths are just the lies of cowards and you buddy are one of the biggest cowards on this site.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @09:59PM
Yes, you misconjugating Runaway, you "read" it. Or at least something purporting to be history.
But most of what you link to is not history, it is fear-mongering propaganda, and is flat out wrong. So while you may read what you think is history, and doubtless some of it actually is, you do not understand it enough to distinguish the actual history from the attempt to manipulate your tiny brain. So please, please, just shut the fuck up on matters you understand nothing about.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Sunday June 04 2017, @01:34PM
"Never" is a long time [wikipedia.org]. But yeah, you're right that in general the message of Judaism is fundamentally different from Christianity and Islam: Judaism is a tribal religion. Christianity and Islam both express the idea that their religion MUST be spread as part of their foundation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @03:00AM
Ahhhh, nothing like the smell of fresh crusading in the evening!!
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday June 04 2017, @11:52AM (7 children)
Both attempt to control society through threats of damnation, promises of paradise, and belief in big angry sky fairies who tell them what to do, say, and believe.
> One was established by a man who said
"If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one"
What did "Saint" Erik use to bring Christianity to the Finns - yup, a sword. Pop over and visit Uppsala Cathedral some time, and see the glorious mural documenting the murder of the pagans who refused to adopt the religion that was being imposed upon them (it's on the wall to St. Erik's chappel, IIRC, a huge thing, probably 50m^2 you can't miss it). Your ignorance of the history of Christianity is palpable. And to be honest, quite painful to read.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Sunday June 04 2017, @12:29PM (6 children)
I did say "early days". Within the lifetimes of Jesus and his disciples, no form of force or coercion was ever used to spread Christianity. Within the lifetime of Moo, it seems that a couple million were killed. No - I don't intend to research his campaigns to see how many were killed. Suffice to say that he personally led 28 expeditions. That is one hell of a lot of soldiering. That's not 28 battles, that is 28 separate expeditions, each of which had at least one battle, and likely several battles in each expedition.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday June 04 2017, @04:53PM (5 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday June 04 2017, @05:30PM (4 children)
You make a point - but, the most revered man in one religion actually taught peace, and the most revered man in the other religion was a warrior who taught war. Take your pick. Peace, or war. And, no, you don't get to go back to the Old Testament to make comparisons between Christianity and Islam. The Old Testament is Judaism. You're stuck with comparing the New Testament with the Quran. One teaches love and life, the other teaches death, slavery, and submission.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @06:39PM
Seems like you haven't read your own bible.
The Book of Revelation is chock-a-block with bloody, vindictive violence, more so than any book of the old testament.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday June 04 2017, @08:15PM
Strange. All the (christian) bibles I have (about 6 different versions) have an old testament in them. In what way is the old testament not part of the christian canon? If they thought it wasn't part of their bible, like the protestants and the apocrypha, they'd not include it.
Your affinity for proposing losing arguments should be telling you something at this stage. Something about holes and digging.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @10:02PM (1 child)
The Prophet, peace be upon him, was no warrior, he was a merchant. What else do you not know about Islam?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday June 05 2017, @03:01AM
And, AC is an outright liar. Moo commanded troops in the field. Merchants don't do that.
(Score: 5, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday June 03 2017, @09:34PM (3 children)
After what happened in Orlando, and we all know what happened in Orlando, I called upon President Obama to immediately resign in disgrace. Because he was afraid to mention the words radical Islamic terrorism. Now that I'm your President, I've gone to the Middle East and I've made a great deal for you, my American workers. It's a great deal for our fine defense industry. We've got great people working in defense. And it's a great deal for the Saudis. They're great people, the Saudis, one of the best in the Middle East. I also talked to the Sunni countries about the Shia problem. The biggest Shia problem, as you know, is Iran. They understand that too. The Sunni countries understand it. That Iran is a problem. And with the deal I've made with the Saudis, we're finally going to see some progress. Against the Shia. President Obama made a very bad deal with them, with Iran. And as bad as it is, they're not living up to the spirit. Not even living up to the spirit. Look at who they elected, in Iran. Well, that's going to stop. The Iran deal. I'm stopping it. Like I stopped TPP. I'm renegotiating NAFTA. I'm stopping the Paris accord or I'm renegotiating it. And I'm renegotiating the Iran deal. Or stopping it. And NATO. And that thing we're doing with the Koreans. Great people, but they're not paying their share. I like people who pay their share. U.S.A.
(Score: 2) by Entropy on Sunday June 04 2017, @07:01AM (1 child)
So what you're saying is Trump should be more xenophobic? I agree actually..but I'm surprised you do.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday June 04 2017, @08:17AM
Every day I'm working to keep my promises to you, the American people. I've gone to the Middle East. I've gone to Israel. I've gone to the Vatican. And I've gone to Germany. Making the best deals for you. Because when I make deals, America comes first. Always, always first. And you know, folks, the deal we have with Germany is a bad one. Really bad. They're killing us on trade. Very unfair. That's going to change. That's going to stop. Or renegotiate, going to renegotiate. Like The Apprentice. I renegotiated and now I'm the President. Nobody can make deals like I can. I'm really, really great. Believe me. Look, we've got to get control over our borders. But judges are a problem. That Mexican judge in Indiana was a problem and so was that judge in Hawaii. On an island in the Pacific, I'm told. But he was a problem, somehow. Amazing! Very hard to ban Muslims, because of bad judges. I mean, not banning Muslims. It's not a ban. It's an executive order. Hard to do it, because of those judges. To do it legally. So we're doing this, the phones and the email. And the wall. To control our borders. Because if we can't control our borders, what are we? Look at what happened in Sweden tonight. They lost control of their borders, and look what happened. I think Islam hates us. There's something there that - there's a tremendous hatred there. We can’t allow people coming into this country who have this hatred of the United States. So we're checking their phones, and email. And their Twitter. I've got tremendous support on Twitter, over 60 million followers. Just a hint, for anyone wanting a visa. So we're using the phones, the e-mails, and the Twitters. To stop the hate. To stop it right at the border. To make the U.S.A. a safe place. To keep out the hate. #MAGA
(Score: 2) by Common Joe on Sunday June 04 2017, @07:33PM
I haven't laughed that hard in a while.
Very well done. Frighteningly well done. But well done. Great comment.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @01:05AM
Summary of parent post: "They do bad stuff too so we should not hold ourselves to a higher standard nor should we strive to be(come) better over time"
(Score: 0, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Saturday June 03 2017, @11:47PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40147164 [bbc.com]
Maybe not?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @02:08AM
They're going to hate us.
irrationality is like that. compounded with religion... it's never going to end.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @09:29AM
Muslims have been hating the US for centuries. The US used to pay millions to muslim pirates who enslaved, killed and raped people. This is why the US built their own navy. It will not end until one side is totally defeated.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 03 2017, @07:38PM (6 children)
What if people don't have any?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 03 2017, @07:58PM
T E R R I O R I S T
(Score: 2, Informative) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday June 03 2017, @09:04PM (4 children)
Honestly, it's 2017. I'm getting ready for 2020. Don't be a loser. Hop on and follow me. I know some of you are still on Blackberry. Blackberry is junk. It's junk for losers. Get a good phone and hop on Twitter. The chink Twitter if you're in China. Believe me, I know all about China. I know the score and it's not pretty the way China has been beating us. They kill us. President Xi, by the way, great guy. Great golfer. We had cake together at Mar-a-Lago, the winter White House. It was the most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you've ever seen. As good as pussy. Maybe better. With missiles. Go hop on Facebook, if that's all you have. If you don't have Twitter. I'm telling you, Zuckerberg is a smart cookie. Smart little Jew. Jews are great people, one of the best. But what he wants isn't best for America. It's not what's best for American workers. And I always, always put American workers first. Believe me. But hop on Facebook if it's all you've got, and I know a lot of you only have that. I don't need to tell you, don't bother with the Google thing. But hop on Twitter if you can. Follow me and like. Then we can get on with the vetting. Because we're vetting extremely. Whether you're a student or a tourist. An immigrant or a refugee (I call them terrorists). Or an H1B. We're going to do something about the H1Bs, I'm telling you. But don't be a loser, hop on. Follow me and like. Also follow @IvankaTrump. If I wasn't her father I'd still follow her. Not just on Twitter. #TrumpResorts
(Score: 1) by marknmel on Saturday June 03 2017, @11:06PM (2 children)
, but I like my BlackBerry....
There is nothing that can't be solved with one more layer of indirection.
(Score: 1) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday June 04 2017, @03:16AM (1 child)
Mark, I'm sure you're a great guy, but you've got to know how it looks. Coming to the U.S.A. with a phone that's not from the U.S.A. And Blackberry isn't. Isn't from the U.S.A. I'm sure you know, Hillary had one. Had a Blackberry. Instead of the phone she was supposed to use, she was on her Blackberry. She was on her Blackberry in Vietnam. She was on it in Brazil. And in South Korea. You know, Mark, I always say, I would never have invaded Vietnam. We shouldn't have been there, but once were there, we probably should have stayed. The soldiers in Vietnam, they had no leadership. They probably didn't know what they're fighting for. It's hard to say they're cowards, but they had nothing to fight for. It's a disgrace. We can't rebuild our own cities. Look at how much equipment we left behind for the enemy to take, millions in equipment. And I met their Prime Minister, Nguyễn Xuân Phúc. Phúc's a great guy, totally normal. Amazing! I hosted him at the White House. The one in Washington, not the good one. Not Mar-a-Lago. Not Trump Tower. The one they want me to use. Let me tell you, Mark, the golf isn't great. Not like Mar-a-Lago or Turnberry. Or Trump National Golf Club. Great courses, the best. So, Hillary, tough lady. Not tough enough. She liked her Blackberry. Like you, Mark. And she wasn't President. So she got in trouble. Because her Blackberry, not secure. Very important job she had, but she didn't use the phone she was supposed to. Not the one they wanted her to use. Not the secure one. And I know why. Because the secure phone is not great. Very hard to use. Doesn't do what I want it to do. Not even good as a flashlight, as a reading light. Not good for 'taping.' I'm telling you, Mark - and Mel - someone - and he knows who he is - had better hope I wasn't 'taping' with my other phone. So you can keep your Blackberry, but it doesn't look good. And we're going to vet it. Extremely. Get a phone you can work with, Mark, and follow me. And @IvankaTrump. Follow and retweet. And don't follow ISIS, they hate the gays. Very hateful, as bad as Kathy Griffin. Almost as bad. I love the gays, believe me. They're great people, some of the best. Elton, great guy. Played at my inauguration. Good luck, Mike. Good luck, Mel. Have a great life. #Trump2020
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @09:38AM
I got two phones, one for the bitches and one for the dough.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @01:10AM
It's uncanny how much this could actually come from dumb-smurf. Uncanny I tell you...
(Score: 2, Disagree) by jmorris on Saturday June 03 2017, @07:45PM (13 children)
The better question we should be asking is why the Hell we haven't been doing this sort of serious background checking since Sep 12, 2001? Really? Why have all of this computerized crap if we aren't going to actually use it for productive purposes?
Getting into this country is a courtesy, not a right. Why shouldn't we do due diligence on people, especially from areas with double digit support for suicide bombers and double digit support for using that tactic against the U.S.? Could somebody have the balls to actually make the counterargument in public?
(Score: 5, Informative) by Justin Case on Saturday June 03 2017, @08:13PM (8 children)
Innocent until proven guilty?
Math problem: There are one million people in Country X. There is one terrorist in Country X. What are the odds that a given person from Country X is a terrorist?
Jeopardy question: The truth.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 03 2017, @08:23PM (2 children)
Shouldn't it be:
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Sunday June 04 2017, @03:06PM (1 child)
Why not use for the example a much more accurate test with merely 0.05% false positive rate? And in addition, assume it never fails to recognize an actual terrorist. With those specifications, the majority of people could be easily convinced that everyone who tests positive must be a terrorist.
Yet on someone from your Country X, the probability that someone identified by the algorithm as terrorist actually is a terrorist would still be about 0.2%.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @03:31PM
Yep, it is the same deal as the diagnostic medical testing scam currently being implemented.
(Score: 3, Funny) by julian on Saturday June 03 2017, @09:34PM (3 children)
I sometimes feel like all it would take to convert a conservative into an intelligent person (at least on the issue of natsec/immigration) is to explain Bayes' theorem and the base rate fallacy.
(Score: 2) by Zyx Abacab on Saturday June 03 2017, @10:31PM (1 child)
That just might work for those people who, possessing basic reasoning skills, are able to listen to and internalize explanations.
I'm not as faithful about the rationality of most human beings—conservative or otherwise. But especially conservatives.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @02:56AM
Innumeracy is the load bearing beam of all bigotry.
But you can't reason someone out of a position they never reasoned themselves into.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @10:37PM
Have you met Runaway1956?
(Score: 1) by tftp on Sunday June 04 2017, @04:11AM
It's not particularly relevant how many people are in Country X. You need to look only at those who want to visit the USA. The percentage of terrorists will be higher in that group.
One would think that foreigners coming on a visa are not likely to be terrorists, however the 9/11 was done by them, and the shoe bomber [wikipedia.org] was one of them as well, and the underwear bomber [wikipedia.org], and a bunch more... It's a pretty straightforward act for any budding terrorist: to buy a ticket, go there and do something.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by ledow on Saturday June 03 2017, @08:27PM (3 children)
And the answer is:
Because it's security theatre that doesn't aid in stopping terrorists at all, but at ENORMOUS administrative costs. And because visa-applicants are - the VAST, VAST, VAST majority - just ordinary people. You're burdening them and yourselves for virtually zero gain. You mention 9/11 - how many of those attackers required visas?
Really, asking for Facebook and emails? Gosh. I guess I could just... say I don't use them. Or point you at a fake profile. Or literally make it up. Or give you someone else's. It doesn't provide you ACCESS to those profiles, after all. And I'm more likely to have, say, a Chinese social media account that you'll never get access to if I was Chinese. So what have you gained? What are you going to do, go through my Facebook and SoylentNews posts for the last five years and see if I'm condescending to Trump? What's that going to tell you?
The problem you have is that you think there's something special about the US here. There isn't. Every first-world country has the same problems, and sometimes because our ally (e.g. the US) invaded countries, bombed hospitals and supplanted the local government, not ourselves.
Visa applicants range from people fleeing terrorism, to people training to be doctors, to businessmen trying to find a US trade partner, to invited speakers from the world's scientific community. You just accused them all of being terrorists. Guess how likely they are to come to the US to do those things, even though they are ZERO threat to you?
The statistics in your paragraph are, additionally, absolute bollocks.
You are literally putting people off of even vacationing in the US with this kind of attitude, let alone attracting talent to do the things that your country doesn't have enough of (the reason you allow immigration in the first place is to fulfill workplace skills gaps that you can't yourself).
P.S. You come across as inherently racist, as you're lumping "immigrant" and "terrorist", even if it's done subconsciously. 99.999% of all immigrants are not terrorists.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday June 03 2017, @11:08PM (1 child)
Terrorist is a race now. Good grief. Maybe you didn't shoot yourself in the foot with that last, but you scared hell out of ratiional people when you shot a hole in the floor next to your foot.
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Sunday June 04 2017, @12:35AM
The funniest thing in the GP post is that he thinks the US government does not have access to social media accounts unless you tell them the password.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @01:13AM
If they be asking for your social network profile, you can be damn certain that everything in there, regardless of whether it is marked private or not, is available to the USG. Or in other words: that's a nice little fantasy you got going there, but if you repeat it long enough, you will believe it, won't you?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Justin Case on Saturday June 03 2017, @07:57PM (5 children)
Oh, yeah, I've been waiting for this one!
Bottom line: you better get awfully goddamn normal right the fuck now. No forget that, 15 years ago. Otherwise
(say it all together now!)
off to the slammer we go! Yaay, America, Yaay freedom!
(Score: 4, Informative) by Whoever on Saturday June 03 2017, @08:09PM (4 children)
You miss the point.
They won't do more than a cursory check on the these accounts. But, if for some reason, years later, they want to throw you out of the country, even if you later become a citizen, they will dig up some website that you registered an account with but forgot to include on your visa application and say "Ah, hah! You lied on your visa application 20 years ago. This means that all subsequent immigration actions are void and we can throw you out of the country".
(Score: 2) by Justin Case on Saturday June 03 2017, @08:15PM
Yeah, probably right.
In other words, bend over and try to keep a smile on your face. Welcome to amerika.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 03 2017, @08:52PM (2 children)
I doubt this. I think more than likely it will be an AI evaluation that creates an autonomous score based on various factors. For one example it's a given that most government agencies have a sort of 'hot list' of social media accounts that have espoused abnormally radical or threatening views. Most of us are probably going to be connected to these accounts to some degree thanks to a 6 degrees of separation type effect. Your average 'distance' from each of these accounts could be quantified and give an immediate numeric value of your relative tendency towards interacting with extremists or those closely related to extremists.
(Score: 2) by Justin Case on Saturday June 03 2017, @09:07PM (1 child)
And since neural networks can't explain why they reached a frequently-wrong conclusion, you're going to have people randomly singled out for suspicion just because the computer doesn't like them.
What system of justice does this fit within?
Meanwhile the terrorist slips through.
But hey, something must be done, and this is something, so we must do it. Right?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday June 03 2017, @11:25PM
"just because the computer doesn't like them."
Hey, if my dog doesn't like you, you're not coming in the house. My computer is almost as smart as my dog, I'm gonna go with the computer's judgement. /sarcasm
(Score: 2, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday June 03 2017, @07:59PM (1 child)
Folks, I promised to enact extreme vetting for immigrants and refugees. We gonna vet so much you may even get tired of vetting and you'll say please, please Mr. President, it's too much vetting! We can't take it anymore! I'm kidding. I wasn't kidding. Word to the wise, follow me. Also, follow @IvankaTrump and buy her shoes. You'll look fabulous in them. Donate to her fund big time. Wear her clothes and anything L.L. Bean sells. They're terrific and you'll look fabulous. When you get vetted you'll look great. Catch my drift. Boycott SNL and everyone in it, they're pigs. Totally biased, unwatchable. Also Kathy Griffin. She's disgusting! You know what to do to her when we let you in. If you're from Syria you know. Or, if you're not. Just do it. And Mike Dubke, you're still fired! U.S.A.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 03 2017, @08:17PM
Wow, clearly Saturday Night Live doesn't know what they're missing when they passed on you.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday June 03 2017, @08:01PM (5 children)
So if social media vetting is now part of the process, does it help or hurt to be an anti-social non-Facebook user (aka a good
terroristsoymiscreant who doesn't leave breadcrumbs)?[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Saturday June 03 2017, @09:23PM
Ooooh, you're in a heap of trouble...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday June 03 2017, @11:27PM (3 children)
Antisocial? You're fucked, man. You should do what I do - tell everyone that you're just an asocial asshole.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @04:46AM (2 children)
Funny, you've never said that on soylent.
I mean, you show it with practically every post.
But actually saying it? This may be the very first time.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday June 04 2017, @12:25PM (1 child)
You poor fool - try this: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Asoylentnews.org+asocial+asshole&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 [google.com]
If you need further assistance, ie, you can't figure out how to click a link on Google or something equally stupid, you can click these links to see it directly:
https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=19108&page=1&cid=497912 [soylentnews.org]
https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=17/02/08/0148233 [soylentnews.org]
Now, PLEASE, try to complete your education. It's embarrassing to be having a battle of the wits with an unarmed man.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @06:44PM
Oh little Derp, Derpaderpa, Derpita...
Why would you think that anyone wants to be educated about you?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 03 2017, @08:20PM (3 children)
What makes you think he cares about scientists and students?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday June 03 2017, @11:34PM (2 children)
You claim to be a scientist, but don't know what dihydrogen monoxide is? TERRORIST!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @01:19AM (1 child)
100% of people that are have been exposed to di-hydrogen monoxide (DHM) die, that's a fact! It's easily accessible and can be sprayed on people from a distance. When it hits the target, it will ricochet and form droplets that can land on bystanders. You can also transform it into a gas and expose people that way.
And the worst part, they won't let you take DHM on an airplane and then they will try to expose you to it while in-flight... your government is in cahoots with the airlines and poisoning you with DHM, people!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @02:13AM
I'll bet chemtrails have DHM!
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @12:20AM (2 children)
You lucky lot who had to come through airport immi line - i.e., non-citizens, tell us the best questions they put to you. I've heard some of them are downright hilarious.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @01:22AM
- Where's home?
- When are you leaving?
- Why are you here?
- How much money do you have access to?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 04 2017, @01:42AM
Why you coming here? To meet a friend.
Why you wanna mett your friend? The fucker owes me money.
Who's this friend? Raggamuffin bin Laden.
How d'you become friends with raggtamufin? While smuggling dirty bombs.
Warriors gonna fuck up Cavs, won't they? Curry 4 is dope.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Monday June 05 2017, @04:23PM
They've got some twisted and probably useless definitions of social media here...standard security theater fare I guess.
I mean, if you meet Jihadi John on Match.com, you don't have to report that. But if you go to the Verizon website and ask for tech support, THAT has to be reported...