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posted by Fnord666 on Thursday October 12 2017, @07:23AM   Printer-friendly
from the oink-I-say dept.

Newsweek has this article on America's skewed definition of terrorism:

What is terrorism? According to the FBI, animal activists who stole two piglets from a farm were terrorists. As of now, Stephen Paddock, who killed 58 people at a country music concert in Las Vegas two weeks ago, has not been labeled a terrorist by the federal security organization.

In a viral story posted on The Intercept, journalist Glenn Greenwald details an account of federal agents investigating animal activists and scouring farm-animal sanctuaries to find two missing piglets that allegedly had been stolen from a farm. The FBI devoted such resources to finding these two piglets because their alleged theft and the capturing of undercover videos of the farm's conditions count as terrorism.

Why is the piglet theft classified as terrorism, but not the Las Vegas shooting? The distinction is rooted in the definition of the term. In spite of the emotions the word "terrorist" might elicit, the definition is not "mass killer" or "Muslim extremist" or "very bad person." The legal definition of terrorism is "the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property in order to coerce or intimidate a government or the civilian population in furtherance of political or social objectives."


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by looorg on Thursday October 12 2017, @07:47AM (16 children)

    by looorg (578) on Thursday October 12 2017, @07:47AM (#581023)

    Greenwald is making himself stupider then he is. But it's because the (militant) "animal rights" people have been doing this for decades, stealing two piglets is part of on ongoing organized campaign and isn't some one time event as the LV-shooter incident. Same as all those other eco-terrorist that go around burning shit to the ground to "save mother nature" or whatever their excuse is.

    In some sense the definition of terrorism have become popularized. Now almost everything criminal can also be considered terrorism, at least by some people. After all most crime fulfill at least half the definition by using violence as a tool to in some way shape or form influence people or entities. They also probably have an agenda they are trying to advance. It's like the terrorism slippery slope.

    Was Charles Whitman a terrorist? For those that can't remember him he was the man that climbed the University of Texas tower and started sniping off people for about an hour and a half, he killed only a fraction of what Paddock managed but that is besides the point. It circumstances wasn't identical. But still he managed to kill something like 10-11 people from his vantage point back in 1966. Can't recall him being labeled as a terrorist either. We can probably have a whole list of lone gunmen here that doesn't get the terrorist label.

     

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by sjames on Thursday October 12 2017, @09:18AM (5 children)

    by sjames (2882) on Thursday October 12 2017, @09:18AM (#581043) Journal

    Taking two piglets already left for dead (no commercial value) isn't terrorism either. Taking video isn't violence. Gaining employment under false pretenses and then taking video isn't violence. Thus, not terrorism.

    The LV shooter is also not a terrorist. Plenty of violence but no discernable agenda and no attempt to cause political change.

    Note that even if healthy, a piglet goes for $35 retail. Can you imagine someone stealing $70 worth of stuff from you and the FBI going on a multi-state hunt for your property? Can you imagine more than a very bored cop very reluctantly filling out a report to be filed and forgotten? Treating it as a felony and a terrorist act is itself an act of state terrorism.

    • (Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12 2017, @01:57PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12 2017, @01:57PM (#581125)

      It's obvious that all they heard was "these terrorists have kidnapped two pigs". Automatic reaction on the part of the cops when they thought two of their own were missing.

      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12 2017, @04:30PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12 2017, @04:30PM (#581203)

        This is funny not informative... sometimes I really worry about the mental state of fellow lentils.

        • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday October 12 2017, @07:54PM

          by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday October 12 2017, @07:54PM (#581315) Journal

          This is why I have been advocating for an "insightfunny" mod forever now. Sometimes a post is both and needs to be recognized as such. In fact, all things insightfunny should be highlighted because humor when used to further truth, makes the truth go much farther and deeper.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12 2017, @05:17PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12 2017, @05:17PM (#581226)

        children of cops, or just freshly minted officers just off being called 'cadet'? :)

    • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday October 12 2017, @05:28PM

      by bob_super (1357) on Thursday October 12 2017, @05:28PM (#581230)

      In the old days, son, they woulda hung you from a tall tree for stealing cattle.
      Threatening Farm business, especially Big Farm Business, ain't no laughing matter around these parts, boy...

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12 2017, @10:23AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12 2017, @10:23AM (#581066)

    FWIW I don't consider the mass shooting a terrorist act either unless there was some message or demand.

    But it's because the (militant) "animal rights" people have been doing this for decades, stealing two piglets is part of on ongoing organized campaign a

    If those people stealing a pig were doing terrorist acts before stealing a pig then they're a terrorist whether they stole a pig or not. e.g. knowingly joining a terrorist group makes you a terrorist even if you haven't done anything yet (e.g. signing up with ISIS).

    If the terrorist robbed the farmer of his pigs then yes it's a terrorist act - since there's violence or threat of violence and it was part of the terrorist campaign. But if a terrorist secretly steals a pig without threats or violence, it should be considered stealing a pig not a terrorist act.

    I don't think that all crimes committed as part of terrorist campaign should automatically be considered terrorist acts. The crimes should still be considered crimes and potentially add to their sentence if they get caught. But to consider all such crimes as terrorist acts seems a dangerous and a slippery slope.

    Anti-terrorism laws tend to be rather powerful, so let's not make it easier for those in power to use them or expand their coverage and scope.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 13 2017, @04:13AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 13 2017, @04:13AM (#581544)

      That word means that violence was used or threatened.
      That didn't happen.
      I challenge you to produce evidence that violence against humans has -ever- been used by the animal liberation folks.

      TFS was a tiny part of the article.
      (I read TFA before it was submitted here.)
      The really good stuff was omitted from TFS.

      There was no one around attending the animals.
      It appeared that had been true for some time.

      The piglets couldn't be sold as pets because they were in such poor condition.
      It is unlikely they would have made it to market as meat because of their poor health: either they would have died or an inspector would have rejected the diseased animals.

      ...and there were other piglets nearly who had died and their corpses were rotting.

      If these critters had been dogs, this would have been called a puppy mill. [google.com]
      (Don't support this business model. Don't buy animals from pet stores.)

      Next time, RTFA.

      terrorist

      Use of that word also requires violence or the threat of violence.
      You are way off the mark.
      Again, I'm willing to see your evidence to the contrary WRT this lot.

      -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

  • (Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Thursday October 12 2017, @12:05PM (5 children)

    by LoRdTAW (3755) on Thursday October 12 2017, @12:05PM (#581092) Journal

    But it's because the (militant) "animal rights" people have been doing this for decades, stealing two piglets is part of on ongoing organized campaign and isn't some one time event as the LV-shooter incident.

    This is the key point. It's a somewhat organized campaign waged for decades. The Vegas shooter didn't have any motivation beyond some sort of psychosis. The key word here is organized.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12 2017, @01:02PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12 2017, @01:02PM (#581114)

      But just being organized doesn't make it terrorism. The Mafia definitely is organized crime, which even includes killing people, but I've never heard anyone claim they are terrorists.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by LoRdTAW on Thursday October 12 2017, @01:11PM (3 children)

        by LoRdTAW (3755) on Thursday October 12 2017, @01:11PM (#581116) Journal

        The difference is the mafia commits crimes to enrich itself. It has no agenda to push. The so called eco-terrorists commit their crimes to push an agenda.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12 2017, @08:22PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12 2017, @08:22PM (#581326)

          Mafia has an agenda: to make money. So if the acts are in pursuit of money, it is not terrorism. If the acts are to prevent someone from pursuing money, it is a candidate for terrorism(?)

          The terrorists label is over-abused, and mainly by those that want more power and limit civil liberties.

        • (Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Thursday October 12 2017, @09:19PM (1 child)

          by Joe Desertrat (2454) on Thursday October 12 2017, @09:19PM (#581351)

          The difference is the mafia commits crimes to enrich itself. It has no agenda to push. The so called eco-terrorists commit their crimes to push an agenda.

          Caring for something besides stuffing money in your pocket regardless of who or what gets hurt or destroyed is a terrorist act if it prevents someone from stuffing money in their pocket? The "eco-terrorists" are so labeled because they oppose the self-enriching agenda of profit driven, environmental consequence ignoring, law in their pocket big industries, not because they harm things on a vast scale.

          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Friday October 13 2017, @12:46AM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday October 13 2017, @12:46AM (#581462) Journal

            because they oppose the self-enriching agenda of profit driven

            Which, in a culture that puts money ahead of anything else, is an attack that goes against the very core of the society.

            It won;t happen in cultures for which money is just another mean for a purpose.
            Look at the Scandinavian societies and you'll see them happy to pay high taxes because they get something they value more than the money they spend.

            (yeah, sure, that's heresy! No, more than that, it's BLASPHEMY! How could anything else than money be more important. That's socialism or even communism, the incarnation of all evil...
            TMB and some others are righteously entitled to shoot-from-there-hip to anyone who thinks otherwise, no extra thinking needed, knee-jerk reaction is so much easier).

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by urza9814 on Thursday October 12 2017, @06:40PM (1 child)

    by urza9814 (3954) on Thursday October 12 2017, @06:40PM (#581272) Journal

    Greenwald is making himself stupider then he is. But it's because the (militant) "animal rights" people have been doing this for decades, stealing two piglets is part of on ongoing organized campaign and isn't some one time event as the LV-shooter incident. Same as all those other eco-terrorist that go around burning shit to the ground to "save mother nature" or whatever their excuse is.

    The entire part about the LV shooter comes from Newsweek, not Greewald. Greenwald's article doesn't mention it at all, it's mostly about factory farming practices.

    In some sense the definition of terrorism have become popularized. Now almost everything criminal can also be considered terrorism, at least by some people. After all most crime fulfill at least half the definition by using violence as a tool to in some way shape or form influence people or entities. They also probably have an agenda they are trying to advance. It's like the terrorism slippery slope.

    Yeah, I think that's kinda the point of the article. Sure, "Terrorism" has a strict legal definition. But that definition often doesn't match the popularized definition used by the general public. So when Congress declares that they're giving $x billion to fight terrorism, people support it because they think that money is being spent hunting down ISIS cells and mass shooters. They don't expect it to be spent on recovering abandoned farm animals, even if that *might* technically better fit the definition. The article isn't about what gets classified as "terrorism"; it's about where the big anti-terrorism funding is really going vs where people *think* it's going.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 13 2017, @04:30AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 13 2017, @04:30AM (#581554)

      I saw an article the other day where a sex worker said that Stephen Paddock would take her to a casino, lose a bunch of money, and pay her to have violent sex. [google.com]
      The dude had a loose screw, not an agenda.

      The Texas Tower sniper was mentioned upthread.
      Charles Whitman had a brain tumor. [google.com]
      Again: Not ideological; just nuts.

      (Thanks for shutting down all the mental health facilities, Ronnie Raygun--and thanks for the push-start, Jimmy Carter.)

      -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]