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Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot
California's 168-year run as a single entity, hugging the continent's edge for hundreds of miles and sprawling east across mountains and desert, could come to an end next year — as a controversial plan to split the Golden State into three new jurisdictions qualified Tuesday for the Nov. 6 ballot.
If a majority of voters who cast ballots agree, a long and contentious process would begin for three separate states to take the place of California, with one primarily centered around Los Angeles and the other two divvying up the counties to the north and south. Completion of the radical plan — far from certain, given its many hurdles at judicial, state and federal levels — would make history.
It would be the first division of an existing U.S. state since the creation of West Virginia in 1863.
Previously: Proposal to Divide California Into Three States Could Land on the November Ballot
Related: Secessionists Formally Launch Quest for California's Independence
California Secession Leader has Russian Ties
Calexit: the "Bad Boys of Brexit" Throw Their Weight Behind Move to Split State
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @09:56AM (11 children)
If this passes it will be a loss for everybody except the lawyers, a needless waste of time and energy at the local, state and national levels.
Trump will be for it.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @11:09AM (2 children)
The only way you could be for this proposal is if you're a hard-core Republican.
They see the Golden State as being a permanently Democratic state--which it is.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @11:28AM
Yes, everyone knows [mercurynews.com]
In other news, over One Million have left Venezuela for Colombia in the last 15 months [reuters.com] and Venezuela now has it's first Polio case in 30 years. [cnn.com] Perhaps the border wall should be built on the US side of California for when socialist libtards finally "Venezuela" their own state?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday June 14 2018, @10:17PM
That's the message here. Extreme wealth wants to pay less tax, and hive off the poor somewhere else.
Which ever part the rich get to keep will be a huge gated community. The poor will only be allowed in to clean everyone's pools.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @11:19AM (5 children)
How is Putin responsible for the leftist policies and impending bankruptcy of metropolitan areas?
(Score: 2) by pkrasimirov on Thursday June 14 2018, @11:41AM (1 child)
You could ask the same for Trump: how is Putin responsible for a conman and his performances? But yet he's leading the Free in their Land at the moment. Putin is not really pro- anything, he's just anti- according any opportunity. Breaking up California to pieces would be clealy welcomed as anything that harms others (read: not Putin).
People who are unable to create value are also unable to perceive/believe that some others can. Therefore for them the world is a zero-sum game where one's gain is inevitably another's loss. Therefore any loss for other players can range from no impact to them up to pure net gain.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @12:50PM
You've got this wrong. Sociopaths and socialists know others can create wealth additionally they understand their personal entitlement can only be met by depriving others.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by VLM on Thursday June 14 2018, @01:09PM (2 children)
His country abandoned communism and it's doing better; our local communists will never forgive. Imagine if the locals got the bad idea that leftism here is also a bad idea? Therefore guess who's the boogyman behind everything bad... Rained this morning? Goddamn Russians. Lost a game of Yahtzee? Goddamn Putin. Back when the Russians were commies, the Russians were our best friends, according to the same media people... Now that they voted for the "wrong" type of leader, they must be destroyed.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @03:44PM
Heh, gotta love how you crazies start foaming at the mouth over "leftism" every chance you get. I feel a bit sorry for you though, constantly living in fear and hatred.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday June 14 2018, @10:24PM
Why are you still pretending US politics has a left?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @04:50PM (1 child)
Russia has been backing the CA secessionist movement for years now. So yes, of course, Trump would be in favor of it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @06:01PM
California is in need of a shakeup. Between SF, LA and San Diego the representation of the common man outside of those regions is being overpowered by the voting capabilities of those cities. By reassessing the state into political/legislative regions that more proportionally represent the common man of the geography, it will help enable the smaller, poorer, and less advantaged regions of the state to enact laws, budgets, and public policies that better match their needs. Furthermore, it will help reduce the acceptable amount of spawn from the cancers that are the big cities, if the little guys know what is smart for them. There is only so much land you can trade for housing tracts and water utilities before the agriculture industry in California collapses, and we may already be past that point.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Thursday June 14 2018, @11:38AM (10 children)
So the winner will be ... Texas? That will become the largest, most populous and richest state? Yiha!
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 14 2018, @11:53AM (2 children)
Yep, those two Texan senators can whup ass all over the six from the Californias, until voting time comes.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @12:30PM (1 child)
I'd guess that most of California's money is concentrated in SF, LA and SD so might not make a difference.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @04:52PM
The Santa Clara valley is more commonly known as Silicon Valley. As of when I left in 1996, they were still pretty conservative there too (problem was pretty much all of California was conservative with the exception of the SF, LA and SD urban zones, but their population dwarfed the rest of the state.)
Efforts to break up California have been going on as long as I can remember (and I am 51.) As a kid, the rallying cry was from "tree-hugging hippies" who complained about LA (and the farmers in the central valley) "stealing our water" from the north. Back then this was the state that elected Ronald Reagan as governor, so its funny to see that even though the guys pushing for the breakup and the political majority of the state have shifted, the constant cries to break it up continue!
(Score: 3, Funny) by Whoever on Thursday June 14 2018, @03:35PM
It won't be the largest.
Question: what's the worst day in Texas history?
Answer: Jan 3, 1959: the day Alaska became a state and Texas was no longer the largest state.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @04:06PM (5 children)
I have a better idea. Split California into two states and sell Texas to Mexico. Then we wouldn't have to change the number of stars on the flag.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @04:20PM (4 children)
Don't forget to build the wall along the former Texas border too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @05:15PM (3 children)
Suddenly I'm on board with the wall idea!
j/k you Texas freaks!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @06:03PM (1 child)
We could push all the silicon valley types back to Texas where Fairchild and TI were from, then wall their sickness into Mexico where they will deserve each other.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @06:43PM
Half right.
Fairchild was a Silicon Valley entity.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @06:06PM
Texas will pay for the wall.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Thursday June 14 2018, @12:04PM (22 children)
The citizens of the more conservative areas of California don't like paying taxes imposed by the current Democratic-led government of California. Hence the secession proposal. In short, this is all about money.
That's one reason the boundaries between the various proposed states are drawn the way they are.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @12:16PM (3 children)
It's not just conservatives calling out the criminal policies of the criminal left. [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @07:12PM (2 children)
First, if all undocumented people are sent back to their countries of origin, the prices of your food will skyrocket.
It's their easily-exploitable labor that mans meat packing plants.
They also harvest your produce.
The cost of lawn care and child care and hotel stays and construction will also explode.
Again, their easily-exploitable labor is what keeps down costs in USA.
Next, the Dumbocrats aren't "Left".
I challenge you to point to EVEN ONE who advocates for a change in ownership models toward worker-owned cooperatives.
The Dumbocrats are NOT Anti-Capitalist.
The Dumbocrats are on the Right-hand side of the divide. [politicalcompass.org][1]
That big deal Dumbocrat congresswoman has even come right out and said "we're Capitalist." [google.com]
[1] ...and their chart is incorrectly skewed to the left.
Nader almost never mentions worker-owned cooperatives.
I have NEVER heard Kucinich mention worker-owned cooperatives at all.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Thursday June 14 2018, @07:42PM (1 child)
It's difficult to understand your position when you praise both easily-exploitable labor and worker-owned cooperatives in the same post.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @08:01PM
You misunderstand my position.
I'm just laying out the facts as they are.
If I had my way, The Workers would own the means of production and there would not be a separate Ownership Class.
...and a Socialist such as I am views all workers as an international brotherhood.
...not cogs in a machine to be exploited by Capitalists and disposed of.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday June 14 2018, @02:17PM (16 children)
There must be more to it than that.
I don't like paying taxes either. But I do like having well maintained roads, street lights, traffic signals, public parks, libraries, some artwork, etc. Surely conservatives benefit from such things too? (well maybe not libraries, art, or parks that don't allow guns)
There is more to this than just "because taxes". I don't know what, though.
Don't put a mindless tool of corporations in the white house; vote ChatGPT for 2024!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @02:31PM (3 children)
"I got mine (from you) and screw everyone else?" thats part of it.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday June 14 2018, @05:22PM (2 children)
But that would sound suspiciously like "wealth redistribution" wouldn't it? And I thought that was a liberal left wing thing.
Don't put a mindless tool of corporations in the white house; vote ChatGPT for 2024!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @07:22PM
It's only "wealth redistribution" depending on whether the first derivative of the amount of exploitation of the working class is positive or negative.
Nobody worries about the redistribution of wealth from the working class to the capitalist elites.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @07:34PM
The vast majority of welfare in USA is corporate welfare.
Further, around 1972, wages in USA flattened.
That was after the 1971 Powell Memorandum, sometimes used as the mark of the beginning of The Neoliberal Era.
Characteristics of Neoliberalism [soylentnews.org]
liberal left
That's an oxymoron.
Left and Right are ECONOMIC terms.
"Left" means Anti-Capitalist.
Liberals are NOT Anti-Capitalist.
Liberalism -depends- on redistributing the wealth of Capitalists.
It is -very- different from Leftism AKA Socialism AKA worker-ownership of the means of production.
The people you are referencing would properly be described as "slightly less Right". [politicalcompass.org]
That is called a Liberal Democrat (even outside USA).
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday June 14 2018, @03:23PM (4 children)
Part of the story may also be that the demographics [statisticalatlas.com]: Northern California would be substantially whiter and substantially richer per capita than current California. Southern California would be heavily Hispanic, and on average poorer than current California.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday June 14 2018, @05:29PM (3 children)
Ah, thanks! Now that is an explanation that makes sense.
It also fits with what I seem to observe that conservatives are deeply afraid of dark skinned or non European descent people who seem to be appearing in the US. God certainly did not make then with the same rights as I have! No way! It must say that in the constitution somewhere, or the bible.
On a more practical matter. The richer per capita Northern California might not like paying taxes if non white people, living anywhere, might benefit from it.
Don't put a mindless tool of corporations in the white house; vote ChatGPT for 2024!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @06:12PM
But for them, paying the taxes would be easier because they'll keep cutting the taxes to rev the economy.
Remember, you gotta cut money to make money.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @07:52PM (1 child)
You're not doing well with terminology today.
A Conservative wants to slow progress to a crawl.
“A Conservative is someone who stands athwart history, yelling STOP." [google.com] -- William F. Buckley, Jr.
Someone who wants to go BACK in time, e.g to erase the gains made by The Working Class, women, and people of color in the 20th Century, is a Reactionary. [google.com]
Those people are RADICAL.
Radical is the OPPOSITE of Conservative.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @05:17PM
Well, not quite.
You can have a conservative (slow, incrementalist) approach to reactionaryism as well as progressivism.
You can have a radical (quick, large moves) approach to both as well.
But you're right about the definition of conservatism.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @04:47PM (6 children)
In case you haven't been paying attention, these areas of California - the more conservative ones - are really quite poorly represented both at the state and national level.
They suffer from horrible, unconstitutional laws/restrictions about firearms, as just one example, despite being in rural areas where you actually do need rifles/shotguns for varmints. Hell, I'd never consider moving to California for this reason alone.
And yes, they're heavily taxed. Remember the rallying cry 'No taxation without representation?'
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday June 14 2018, @05:36PM (1 child)
I don't live in California. So your explanation, and others' here are helpful.
If they are unfairly taxed, then IMO they have a genuine grievance. But, somehow, I suspect that any taxes would be considered too heavy.
People in more densely populated areas suffer from horrible mentally ill people with firearms.
Now if only the two groups could get together and come to some reasonable compromises. I suspect at least one group is unwilling to do so. But I don't know for a fact. There are clearly some individuals who simply should not have firearms. If you live in a rural area, you might not meet very many of them. Or might be one of them, but that is pure speculation.
Don't put a mindless tool of corporations in the white house; vote ChatGPT for 2024!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @05:15PM
It's not just all about guns.
It's about urbanites and suburbanites forcing life decisions on rural communities, without knowledge or experience or exposure to the problems of those communities, but often with a lot of self-righteous, activist-driven opinions.
Do guns enter into that discussion? Sure. So do everything from construction regulations to water management.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday June 14 2018, @07:52PM (3 children)
> being in rural areas where you actually do need rifles/shotguns for varmints
Most Dems are ok with single-action long guns and shotguns. The varmints are not a valid reason to want to sell everyone a glock or an AR...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @06:14AM (2 children)
Semi-automatics are justified for fast-moving varmints.
I guess you could use very fast repeater actions such as pump or lever, but you might as well use semi-automatics.
Or, you know, just go banning things because it feels good, but let's not pretend that culling feral hogs with a single shot rifle is a good plan.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday June 15 2018, @06:24AM (1 child)
You're a shitty hunter. Your ancestors would like to smack you over the head, and leave you to die of starvation.
Do you bother to wonder how hunters and farmers deal with big wild game in the majority of countries where semi-auto long guns, and even pump-action shotguns are forbidden, and all you get to own is a breech loader?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @05:13PM
Speak for yourself. I've tracked shy game and hit them with longbow. I'm a well-practised countryman.
However, I'm also not an idiot, and I don't reach for bad solutions when good ones are available.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Thursday June 14 2018, @07:49PM
> In short, this is all about money.
Mostly.
But there's also the "get something on the ballot that will motivate my team to go to the polls", because the CA Dems will otherwise sweep the election.
(Score: 4, Funny) by nobu_the_bard on Thursday June 14 2018, @12:09PM (9 children)
I don't think we're discussing the most important thing, which is what would we name the new states. I'd like to suggest Top California, Best California, and Narnia.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @12:25PM
Jefferson, State of Engles and Mojave.
(Score: 5, Funny) by zocalo on Thursday June 14 2018, @12:31PM (3 children)
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday June 14 2018, @04:59PM (1 child)
Head, Heart, and Anus, as an exercise for the voter?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday June 14 2018, @08:46PM
New Asia, New Latina, and Old Whiteland
(Score: 2) by snufu on Thursday June 14 2018, @10:18PM
Steppes for horse tribes.
Riparian forests for elves.
Alpine passes to the east.
Volcanoes and cinder cones to the further east for Mordor.
The Undying Land off the western coast horizon.
You could paint middle earth in California and have desert landscapes left over for the lost unpublished chapter.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @12:36PM (1 child)
What's wrong with Ecotopia? A clever novel from 1975 --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Thursday June 14 2018, @03:26PM
The main problem with "Ecotopia" would be that I'm quite certain the people behind this are not trying to create anything remotely similar to the society described in that book. The Northern California that appears to be envisioned by this split would be more likely to be run by ruthlessly capitalist techbros, not socialist-leaning environmentalist hippies.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Informative) by VLM on Thursday June 14 2018, @01:17PM
Should be more "California" something like "New New Mexico" for the permanently unintegrated foreign invaders, "Peoples Republic of California" for the boomer hippie commies ironically most of whom have moved up the coast to ruin those states, and "Dune" for the unpopulated desert areas.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Thursday June 14 2018, @01:32PM
No, no, the northern state would be "High California"
It already is, in practice.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 2) by stretch611 on Friday June 15 2018, @01:44AM
Even if California voters agree to this.. it will requite a majority...
Then the governor, which in CA means a Democrat Governor in all likelihood) would need to approve it. And seeing how this is a big tax shift, it will not be easy for the govenor to approve.
If this happens, it needs to be approved by congress. With todays partisan bickering, what are the chances that the Senate will vote to add 4 new senators.... CA basically has 2 Reliable Democrat Senators now... the Republicans will fight tooth and nail to avoid creating two more reliable Democratic Senators for the unreliable chance of 2 toss up seats.
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P