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posted by
martyb
on Sunday March 17 2019, @07:12AM
from the at-least-the-House-and-Senate-agreed-on-something dept.
from the at-least-the-House-and-Senate-agreed-on-something dept.
breitbart.com/politics/2019/03/15/donald-trump-vetoes-attempt-to-block-national-emergency
President Donald Trump vetoed a bill designed to block his emergency declaration at the Southern Border on Friday, in a ceremony at the White House.
“Today, I am vetoing this resolution,” Trump said. “Congress has the freedom to pass this resolution and I have the duty to veto it. And I’m very proud to veto it.”
Also at CBS News, CNBC, and USA Today.
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Donald Trump Vetoes Attempt to Block his Declaration of a National Emergency
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Do not use if foil seal is broken.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Arik on Sunday March 17 2019, @09:20AM (10 children)
IF that's true it's only because we've made that 'handling' ridiculously expensive.
And you're assuming it's effective. It won't be. A 10' wall just means increased demand for 12' ladders. And digging machines.
But in a sense it will be effective. Other forms of wildlife, some of them at least, will have difficulty. It might actually drive a few species extinct.
It's ridiculous, and it's theatre. They've got the entire border under 24/7 surveillance already. And 100 miles inland.
The last bit is what you should be worried about.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2, Flamebait) by physicsmajor on Sunday March 17 2019, @05:15PM (5 children)
You're pretty ignorant about the border, friend. The claim that it's already under 24/7 surveillance exposes it hilariously.
A physical barrier is imperfect, but serves a similar propose as the locks on your home: deterrence. Lockpicks are available, sure, but you still have locks don't you? So the least common denominator can't walk in any time. This is the purpose a wall serves. It does not have to be perfect to dramatically ameliorate the problem.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @09:27PM (2 children)
False analogy. Houses have ceilings and floors, and are much smaller than the southern border. Thus, tunneling under them or climbing over them with ladders would be ineffective, unlike with a giant wall in the middle of nowhere.
(Score: 2) by EEMac on Sunday March 17 2019, @09:32PM (1 child)
Walls worked for Israel [politifact.com], China [reddit.com], Hungary [breitbart.com] . . .
(Score: 2) by arslan on Monday March 18 2019, @05:55AM
There's also a big "wall" between North & South Korea... sure it is primarily a piece of land with fences on both sides, but it is what's inside that counts =)
When I saw Trump propose this in his election campaign, I though he was gonna spin this into a win-win... you know maybe build a golf course on top or at least a driving range - get part of the cover fee to employ those waiting to be processed to go collect golf balls or something. Do some tourism murica campaign to Asia about this new radical golfing joint - get all those govie and charity sponsored "workshops" & "offsite team building" events there. Win, win for everyone.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday March 18 2019, @07:40AM
I need to make a point for "the other side" here.
Yes, a simple wall, or even a simple fence, will deter the lowest common denominator to which you refer. But, the LCD doesn't even come to the border. The LCD's of the various populations to our south, stay home, and live their lives. You would have a hard time forcing them to walk a thousand miles or more, just to make a death defying walk across the desert, to climb over some Normandy Beach type barricades.
Those people who have made that thousand mile trek are pretty determined. If they know beforehand that they need a twelve foot ladder, then there will be a twelve foot ladder with the group - probably two of them, so that they don't have to jump down from the top of the wall.
You're right, we cut down on the number of people willing to make the trek, simply because they know there is a wall there. But, no wall is enough. We MUST patrol the wall, more effectively than we already do. We MUST install surveillance that is far more effective than we already have. We should know well in advance any time a group of five or more starts moving toward the wall. We have satellites that can scan in infrared, ultraviolet, visible light, and various forms of radar. We have all of that, and more that can be mounted on the fence. We can wire the fence for sound, to the point we can hear owls and bats gliding over the fence at night.
And, we have PEOPLE. I insist that there should be (at least) an army division regularly patrolling the badlands. We already have the army. We already have more than enough people in the army. All we need do, is decide to task a division with patrolling and securing that border. Unfortunately, we lack the determination to do so.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday March 18 2019, @09:32AM
The sonoran desert straddles the border and it's under intense surveillance. There are satellites, of course, there are also blimps. Some days they come down low enough you can spot them, if you know where to look, but even when they're so far up you can't see them, they are watching. Internet surveillance is constant and pervasive regardless of location, of course. Finally there are checkpoints, numerous checkpoints both at the border and far, far inland from it, for one more layer of surveillance.
The sensible crossing points already have walls, or at least fences, and more cameras. But even when folks detour way out into the sonoran and cross in the middle of the desert where there is no wall and no guards, you know what happens? Border patrol gets a call from the eye in the sky and they go out in the middle of the desert and pick them up. They bring water and medicine when they do this - that desert is mean and the folks they pick up are typically in bad shape and wind up being rescued as much as intercepted but the point is it happens. It happens because the entire area is under constant surveillance, even if you go around all the walls you don't get in that way. It just gets you a short stay in custody followed by a free bus ride back to the border. This happens constantly.
It's ignorant of you to not grasp this basic fact, something which is known and reported and easily verified if you wanted to do any research.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:43PM (3 children)
It's a 30' wall.
If you try to erect a simple 30' ladder, you will fail. Suppose your arms can reach up 7 feet. You can balance and rotate a ladder twice that length, so 14 feet. If it is longer, it strikes the ground before you can rotate it to be vertical. You can get maybe another foot of distance by holding the ladder off-center if you have very strong hands.
Clearly, you'll need a sliding ladder. Those are expensive. Well, the plain ones would be too, because a plain 30' ladder is not generally available on the market. With a sliding ladder, you need some overlap of the sections, so you still won't get 30 feet. You'd need a 3-section ladder. Those are really rare and expensive, and they are heavy as fuck. Lugging the ladder across the desert, to a place with limited border patrol, will be very difficult.
Then we confiscate the ladder. That was expensive.
I'd rather we push the ladder backwards with the illegals on it, but insane leftists don't see this for the violent invasion that it is. Anyway...
It just isn't practical for them to come in large numbers with ladders. Sure, it will happen. Some may even manage to build scaffolding or bore a deep tunnel. Other modern walls, in Israel and in southeastern Europe, have stopped more than 99% of the traffic coming through. It's a lot easier to shoot (OK, "apprehend", sigh) the remaining 1%.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 18 2019, @12:53PM
Dear Mr. Engineer,
More than one of us will carry the ladders, and more than one of us will raise the ladders. And then more than one of us will use the ladders.
And in case you think that we will build the ladders right in front of the wall within clear view of the US Border Patrol, you are mistaken. We will buy ladders near by because capitalism works on both sides of the border whether people as smart as you believe it or not.
Signed,
Desperate and Seeking Refuge
(Score: 3, Informative) by Nobuddy on Monday March 18 2019, @02:59PM (1 child)
https://www.wernerco.com/us/view/Products/Climbing-Equipment/Extension-Ladders/D6200-2/D6240-2 [wernerco.com]
(hint: look at manufacture location)
Thats gotta fucking hurt. That much ignorance being being both exposed and blown away by a simple link. Ouch. Will you need some therapy?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 21 2019, @08:15AM
That is the biggest ladder, extending from 20 feet to 35 feet. It goes for $500 to $800.
So, how do you erect it? Dangerously, you could use a step ladder. The point is that your hands will need to be about 10 feet above the ground if it isn't extended. A better plan would be to use a crane... but then you have a crane and don't need a ladder.
It's also too damn heavy to lug across the desert. Once we find it, we confiscate it. Overall, this is not a viable plan for millions of people crossing the border.