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from the the-enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend dept.
Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:
The view among the national security officials was unanimous: Military aid to Ukraine should not be stopped. But the White House's acting chief of staff thought otherwise.
That was the testimony of Laura Cooper, a Defense Department official, whose deposition was released Monday in the House impeachment inquiry of President Donald Trump.
"My sense is that all of the senior leaders of the US national security departments and agencies were all unified in their - in their view that this assistance was essential," she said. "And they were trying to find ways to engage the president on this."
Cooper's testimony was among several hundred pages of transcripts released Monday, along with those of State Department officials Catherine Croft and Christopher Anderson.
Cooper told investigators that, in a series of July meetings at the White House, she came to understand that Trump's acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, was holding up the military aid for the US ally.
[...] When she and others tried to get an explanation, they found none.
[...] She said it was "unusual" to have congressional funds suddenly halted that way, and aides raised concerns about the legality of it. The Pentagon was "concerned" about the hold-up of funds and "any signal that we would send to Ukraine about a wavering in our commitment", she said.
Cooper told investigators that she was visited in August by Kurt Volker, the US special envoy to Ukraine, who explained there was a "statement" that the Ukraine government could make to get the security money flowing.
[...] "Somehow, an effort that he was engaged in to see if there was a statement that the government of Ukraine would make," said Cooper, an assistant defence secretary, "that would somehow disavow any interference in US elections and would commit to the prosecution of any individuals involved in election interference."
For a handy reference to the documents that have been released concerning this, npr has posted Trump Impeachment Inquiry: A Guide To Key People, Facts And Documents:
Written words are central to the Ukraine affair. The significance of the whistleblower's original complaint and the White House's record of its call with Ukraine are debated, but the text is public. Here are the documents to refer to as the inquiry proceeds:
Texts and memos
- Call:The White House memorandum (Sept. 25)
- Aid:The Pentagon letter on military aid to Ukraine (Sept. 25)
- Complaint:The whistleblower complaint (Sept. 26)
- Texts:Batch of texts between diplomats released by House Democrats (Oct. 4)
The whistleblower's complaint has largely been corroborated by witness testimony, public statements and media reports. See how the document checks out — with a detailed annotation of the text.
Testimony released by Congress following closed depositions
- Christopher Anderson, former special adviser for Ukraine negotiations
- Laura Cooper,deputy defense secretary
- Catherine Croft, former Ukraine adviser on the National Security Council
- Fiona Hill, former White House adviser on Russia
- George Kent, deputy assistant secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs
- Michael McKinley, former State Department adviser
- Gordon Sondland,U.S. ambassador to EU
- William Taylor, acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine
- Alexander Vindman, top Ukraine expert on the National Security Council
- Kurt Volker, former Ukraine envoy
- Marie Yovanovitch, ex-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @10:22PM (15 children)
You are not in the USA. You're a snow-mexican. You voted an actor into power, something we haven't done since Reagan. (but Reagan gave a damn about his own country)
Being non-USA, your opinion on our wonderful president doesn't matter. If you were from a worse country, a negative opinion would be a bonus.
Unless you are a dairy farmer, you ought to like Trump. He tried to get you affordable dairy products.
It's sad that your country is rapidly going in a bad direction. Try not to go all islamist on us, eh? (for the unaware, Canada is rapidly importing people with 3rd-world values and there is no magic dirt to make them assimilate to traditional Canadian values -- but at least Snow will get polygamy)
The very idea that putting one's own country first is "nut-bar" shows just how far you've fallen. Your culture is going extinct, and you are cheering. All that leftist stuff will one day be gone, replaced by a Caliphate that chucks LGBT from rooftops and stones uncovered women to death.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Snow on Tuesday November 12 2019, @10:35PM (4 children)
Your dairy products are shit. A direct result of intensive lobbying by the industry. Canadian dairy is held to a higher standard with regards to hormones and white blood cell count (an indicator on the heath of the cow).
Ironically, your example of Trump helping Canadians is symbolic of what is wrong with your country at the moment. Trump (and the Republicans) seem to believe that there is nothing better than money. Environment? Fuck it. I want more money. Social support nets? Fuck it. I don't want to pay for it. etc.
The short slightedness of the states is disheartening. The current administration can't seem to think about tomorrow, let alone next decade. Your country is losing face. You standing on the world stage has taken a huge fall. Most of the world used to look up to the USA. That's not the case at the moment. It's really sad to see. I hope you can sort your shit out.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @11:15PM
If you think Canadian dairy is so great, then of course nobody would buy the American dairy. You have no need to exclude it from the market. Why bother, when it won't sell?
On the other hand, if that isn't correct, then why are you telling people they can't have dairy they can afford? People are watering down milk for their kids. People are substituting soy, which has hormonal and inflammatory effects.
Lots of Canadians are voting with their feet. You have a brain drain because productive people want out. They really don't want to pay for socialism, though I guess they can't vote after they leave so you win! You win the impoverished remains all to yourself.
You don't think about the next decade. If you did, you'd notice the ongoing population replacement. Your system of values will die. Assimilation is not happening. The immigrants might not be Christians, but the enemy of your enemy is not your friend. Wait... do you think that Islam is right about women?
Why would an American give a shit about "losing face", "standing on the world stage", and other globalist garbage? None of that helps us win bigly. We gain nothing from kissing your ass.
Grow some balls. Elect somebody who doesn't just act the part. Bonus points if his "eyebrow" (stage makeup) doesn't fall off, LOL.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @01:33PM (2 children)
I've also noted that the last two times we elected an R, we lost face in the international arena.
Its almost like Rs suck an international policy.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @02:15PM
I think you could leave it at every time we've elected a president in the past 4 decades or so we've lost face in the international arena. I think you're probably being overly influenced by media partisanship. Just look at Obama's presidency:
- North Korea became for more threatening, hostile, and capable.
- Bombed more nations than any president since WW2
- Started a new pointless proxy war, which we're losing, in Syria
- Fostered the emergence of ISIS and then flailed uselessly against them.
- Promised to shut down Guantanamo. It's still open. [If he want to believe he wasn't capable of acting, then he should not make promises he cannot possibly keep - same issue.]
- Passed laws regressing human and civil rights in America by decades. For instance his administration lobbed to ensure an indefinite detention law [wikipedia.org] (without charge, trial, or lawyer) could also be assayed upon US citizens.
- His "landmark environmental treaty" (as framed by the media) with China essentially said 'Feel free to pollute as you much until 2030, but then try to town it down.'
- Not only chose not to pursue justice against international bankers who crashed the world economy, but would then go on to accept $400k for 30 minute speeches from them after his presidency, repeatedly.
- And much much more. This isn't some copy paste list - this is just stuff off the top of my head in about 30 seconds of thought.
Obama is not a good person and was not a good president. The big difference between him and other presidents is that he is also unbelievably charismatic and has an incredible gift for speech. Beyond that charisma he was also the first democratic president to win the presidency since the media started becoming, defacto, little more than a branch of the DNC. Both of this combined together to create a situation where his image and charisma were given far more weight than his actual outcomes.
No need to compare him to e.g. Bush. I'd fully agree that Bush was also awful, as well as Clinton. My point is that all of our representatives have become crap. The only issue is that the ~25% of the country that votes democrats puts on the blinders for a D while the other ~25% put on their blinders for an R.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @09:27PM
If you don't "lose face", you're almost certainly screwing up.
The objective is to win, putting America first. That is fundamentally incompatible with your emasculated notion of what it means to lose face.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 12 2019, @11:02PM (7 children)
What the hell is this garbage about "magic dirt". I seem to recall that it cropped up in the comments about a sawzall defeating Trump's tremendously bigly beautiful wall. So, where is this coming from? You wouldn't happen to be one of those "blood and soil" types, would you?
Uh huh. So, just what do you think are the essentials of my culture? Go ahead and enlighten me. I dare you!!!!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @12:58AM (6 children)
It's a term invented by the right. It mocks an assumption made by the left.
The left welcomes immigration from places with very non-left values. (no rights for women, kill the LGBT, etc.)
The left likes to claim that these very non-left values will not be a problem. Diversity is a strength! We must not dare demand assimilation, yet somehow these immigrants will become enlightened and then willingly adopt our values.
It's crazy. Evidence shows that our values are not being adopted. We're being conquered. The idea that transplanting a foreigner to a modern nation would suddenly change values (why?) is the magic dirt theory. The theory goes that western nations are decent places simply due to location (the magic dirt) rather than due to the population that is being diluted and replaced.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @01:21AM (1 child)
You could improve our values by leaving.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @04:59AM
And where is a right-wing fascist racist douche-bag supposed to go to, these days? South Africa is out. Franco is still dead. Zanzibar coup by Brit mercs failed. Really no where in the world to go! Except, maybe, Hungary? Orban? Will you let our poor Nazi AC in? He's a refugee, you see.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @01:44AM (3 children)
Yeah? And? When my grandparents came to this country, they left behind their homeland which had recently been taken over by a bunch of thugs who thought that the world must be conquered by the "superior blue-eyed, blond-haired Aryan race"; some time later these thugs decided that all inferior races needed to be exterminated. No one in my family brought this ideology with them when they came to the USA. So, what's your point?
Again, what do you think my (our) essential core values are? You have made a bald claim without explaining what you think those core values are. Please be specific. Then we might be able to actually address your claim that the "evidence shows that our values are not being adopted".
So, yours is a "blood and soil" ideology. Sad, but unfortunately, not surprising to see. Fuck off, nazi!!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @09:37AM (2 children)
Presumably your grandparents did not immediately then setting about a micronation pushing for a blue-eyed, blond-haired super race? I don't really think people mind immigration at all. I used to think it was the lack of integration that's the problem, but that's also clearly not it. There are, for instance, Chinatowns are pretty much everywhere in major US regions and everybody's pretty cool with that. So what is it?
I think the issue is when people come from these regressive countries and then try to impose their regressive values on other folks. Pretty much everywhere you see a large Muslim population you start to see pushes for things like Sharia law being enshrined in legal law. It also frequently comes with separatist movements once the population reaches a critical mass. Islam of course also tends to be associated with some pretty radical terrorism. For instance in the US only 1% of the population is Muslim, yet that's enough to generate a fairly substantial list of incidents. For instance this [wikipedia.org] is a limited list of terrorism incidents in the US since 2000. Hasan's and Muhammad's should, all other things being equal, make up 1/100 incidents. In practice, those names are pretty much everywhere.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @07:10PM (1 child)
Did you actually bother to read the link you posted? While there are indeed some "Hasans" and "Muhammads" in there, your link doesn't quite support your claim that they are "pretty much everywhere".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @07:57PM
There are 87 incidents listed on that page since 2000. The expect Muslim incident rate, all other things being equal, would be a bit less than 1. They are dramatically over-represented. If we only consider the incidents where people actually die, they are even more dramatically over-represented.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 13 2019, @06:13PM (1 child)
We don't need magic dirt, we have a decent public school system. I'm serious, that's all it takes. Get rid of the other religious schooling options (Looking squarely at the separate Catholic system here, but sure let's ban Islamic, Jewish and whatever-the-fuck-else-schools while we're at it), ensure all children in Canada go through public school, and the problem solves itself. The kids will grow up a lot more like each other than they will like their parents.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Wednesday November 13 2019, @08:01PM
A few decades ago Quebec got rid of its religion-segregated school system (Catholic and Protestant; all other religions were subsumed under Protestant) and replaced it with a language-segregated school system (French and English; all other languages ended up enrolled in French schools, even though the English-based ones had better French-immersion programs).