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Politics
posted by janrinok on Monday January 27 2020, @05:46PM   Printer-friendly

Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:

Political polarization among Americans has grown rapidly in the last 40 years—more than in Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia or Germany—a phenomenon possibly due to increased racial division, the rise of partisan cable news and changes in the composition of the Democratic and Republican parties.

That's according to new research co-authored by Jesse Shapiro, a professor of political economy at Brown University. The study, conducted alongside Stanford University economists Levi Boxell and Matthew Gentzkow, was released on Monday, Jan. 20, as a National Bureau of Economic Research working paper.

In the study, Shapiro and colleagues present the first ever multi-nation evidence on long-term trends in "affective polarization"—a phenomenon in which citizens feel more negatively toward other political parties than toward their own. They found that in the U.S., affective polarization has increased more dramatically since the late 1970s than in the eight other countries they examined—the U.K., Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, Switzerland, Norway and Sweden.

"A lot of analysis on polarization is focused on the U.S., so we thought it could be interesting to put the U.S. in context and see whether it is part of a global trend or whether it looks more exceptional," Shapiro said. "We found that the trend in the U.S. is indeed exceptional."

Using data from four decades of public opinion surveys conducted in the nine countries, the researchers used a so-called "feeling thermometer" to rate attitudes on a scale from 0 to 100, where 0 reflected no negative feelings toward other parties. They found that in 1978, the average American rated the members of their own political party 27 points higher than members of the other major party. By 2016, Americans were rating their own party 45.9 points higher than the other party, on average. In other words, negative feelings toward members of the other party compared to one's own party increased by an average of 4.8 points per decade.

The researchers found that polarization had also risen in Canada, New Zealand and Switzerland in the last 40 years, but to a lesser extent. In the U.K., Australia, Germany, Norway and Sweden, polarization decreased.

More information: Levi Boxell et al, Cross-Country Trends in Affective Polarization, (2020). DOI: 10.3386/w26669


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  • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday January 27 2020, @11:42PM (33 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 27 2020, @11:42PM (#949663) Journal

    It seems to me that the assumption being made by TFA is that we should all learn to just get along a bit more. Is that really a fair thing to ask when you have someone like Trump in office?

    Yes, it is fair.

    The man actively sows discord and creates conflict because that's the game that he's most comfortable playing. Little wonder that the USA is becoming more partisan when the President has been leading the partisan movement for years now.

    So, the fact that you (usians) are so prone to play into the discord game has no bearing in the consequences, right?
    All is needed is to find an "escape goat"** and you are suddenly as innocent as a lamb, real life is something that's just happening for you, you don't have any control over it; you can even forget to consider your part of the responsibility for the result, much less do something about it.
    Did you ever ask yourself what will happen after Trump is no more?

    ---

    ** Even better if the goat is not as innocent as the definition of the term imply.

    --
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  • (Score: 5, Touché) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:34AM (32 children)

    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:34AM (#949700) Journal
    No, it's not fair. The only way to deal with either a bully or a psycho is to stand up to them hard, fast, and frequently. Anything else is seen as weakness to be exploited.

    The same game theory that gave us MAD clearly shows this is the only way. Anything else shows they are right - you ARE weak and deserve to be bullied and exploited. They see their lack of empathy as a strength, even a superpower.

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    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:50AM (23 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @12:50AM (#949705) Journal

      No, it's not fair. The only way to deal with either a bully or a psycho is to stand up to them hard, fast, and frequently. Anything else is seen as weakness to be exploited.

      What is seen/perceived and what's the reality don't necessary overlap.

      No, it's not fair. The only way to deal with either a bully or a psycho is to stand up to them hard, fast, and frequently.

      Even when that's exactly what the bully asks from you?
      Would you react to "Fight with these kids in my gang or else..." with "My pleasure. When do we start?" Does this even sound rational to you as a solution?

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 3, Informative) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @01:37AM (22 children)

        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @01:37AM (#949728) Journal

        No, it's not fair. The only way to deal with either a bully or a psycho is to stand up to them hard, fast, and frequently. Anything else is seen as weakness to be exploited.

        What is seen/perceived and what's the reality don't necessary overlap.

        In this case, it does. Both theory and experiment say so - and that's reality.

        The only way to deal with either a bully or a psycho is to stand up to them hard, fast, and frequently.

        Even when that's exactly what the bully asks from you?

        Would you react to "Fight with these kids in my gang or else..." with "My pleasure. When do we start?" Does this even sound rational to you as a solution?

        It's not only rational if you have no other choice, it's the best way to deal with bullies. Take on the biggest and hit them hard. Sure, you'll get the crap beaten out of you, but that's going to happen anyway, so you might as well give them something to consider next time.

        Besides, every once in a while you get a lucky hit in. The school bully had me on my back on the school playground, was beating me, and I got in a lucky punch that knocked his front tooth out. Ended being bullied for a year - well worth it.

        Contrary to your apparent position (or at least what you're arguing), which is based on bowing down to tyrants and bullies. Nothing good ever comes of that.

        --
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        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:07AM (20 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:07AM (#949745) Journal

          In this case, it does.
          ...
          Take on the biggest and hit them hard.

          If you imagine that "violently discording with thy neighbor" is "hitting Trump hard", something is amiss in your ability to perceive the reality.

          Contrary to your apparent position (or at least what you're arguing), which is based on bowing down to tyrants and bullies.

          Never said so. I actually suggest that you conduct your life as if the bully doesn't exist.

          In this case, you stop your quarrel with thy neighbour 'in the other tribe' and start to look on what you have in common with her/him. I'm sure you a gonna discover a lot more than what Trump suggest as good reasons to stick your teeth in your neighbor's neck.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:20AM (19 children)

            by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:20AM (#949757) Journal

            You're making some serious wrong and unethical assumptions. Sometimes it's not possible to walk away from a fight. You're going to get the beats either way. So bowing down is the absolutely stupidest thing you can do. You not only have the legal right to self-defence, you also have the moral obligation, because if you don't stand up to a bully, they will also go on and bully others.

            In the case of Trump, he should have been impeached long ago. That congress waited so long gave the appearance that there might not be much of a case. So yes, hitting Trump early, hard, and repeatedly, with multiple impeachment charges, was the way to go according to the best science we have.

            You can't let a bully get away with it or you're complicit in every act of bullying they go on to do thereafter. That's reality - you might have been able to stop it and you didn't.

            The same applies to Randy Andy and Jeffrey Epstein, Donald Trump's sex and financial crimes before he was elected, and every racist out there. It's not enough to say "I'm not a racist." If you're not actively anti-racist, you're complicit by your quiet acquiescence. Same with anti-lgbt bigots.

            --
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            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:40AM (18 children)

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:40AM (#949772) Journal

              Sometimes it's not possible to walk away from a fight.

              So? Have it with minimal effort and, win or lose it, get ahead with your life together with the people that surround you.
              Just make sure the one you fight is the actual enemy.

              So bowing down is the absolutely stupidest thing you can do.
              ...
              In the case of Trump, he should have been impeached long ago.

              And your permanent in-fight with your neighbor, who you have a lot more in common than in difference, is gonna solve Trump's impeachment... exactly how?
              How are you contributing to a solution to your problem?

              Hang on, given the stubbornness you continue to accuse me that I'm bowing to the (Trump?**) bully, I wonder if you can see what the problem plaguing both you and your neighbor-in-the-other-tribe actually is?

              You can't let a bully get away with it or you're complicit in every act of bullying they go on to do thereafter. That's reality - you might have been able to stop it and you didn't.

              Yeah. One of the unmistakable flavors of the savior complex - you may the one that are destined to save the world, if you even dare to sleep until the world is not saved then you are a traitor of some kind. Nevermind the responsibility of the others for their own "salvation".

              "Road to hell and the good intentions", maybe you may want think a bit about.

              ---
              ** I'm not even American

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:18AM (12 children)

                by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:18AM (#949807) Journal

                I am not in any sort of permanent infighting with any neighbour - that's your strawman argument. I am doing my best to ignore the neighbourhood alcoholic who keeps trying to hit on me. Not the same thing at all.

                And your arguments ignore behavioural science and real-world experience. MAD works. It actually preserves the peace, but only if the other side knows you're ready to go to the mat if necessary. Fight if necessary, but not necessarily fight.

                Personally, I don't give a shit if Trump gets re-elected or not. The clock is ticking on the US empire, same as all past empires. Who cares the identity of the next Nero fiddling while Rome burns?

                And like more than 95% of the world's population, I'm not an American, so really, I'm sitting on the sidelines with popcorn at the ready. Same as Brexit. The Anglo-American empire is dying. I don't believe it can be saved, and I'm not sure it should be, since we're facing the biggest crisis we've ever faced, and Americans still don't believe in global warming and environmental degradation in sufficient quantities, and sufficient urgency, to do anything.

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                • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:42AM (11 children)

                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:42AM (#949823) Journal

                  I am not in any sort of permanent infighting with any neighbour

                  That's not what TFA says.

                  I am doing my best to ignore the neighbourhood alcoholic who keeps trying to hit on me.

                  Oh, come on, Barbara. You know very well I'm not talking about your "neighbourhood alcoholic". How about you start considering the S/N dwellers as neighbours and look who you quarrel with most of the times.

                  And your arguments ignore behavioural science and real-world experience. MAD works.

                  1. Can you prove that's the only solution to US internal problems?
                  2. Can you prove the equivalency between MAD and the corrupt and resource-draining-never-ending-dirty-electoral-campaign that is now the US political life?

                  Personally, I don't give a shit if Trump gets re-elected or not.

                  But you were (still are?) quick to push others to "resist the bully or else the world ends and it will be your fault", do I got that message it right?

                  You not only have the legal right to self-defence, you also have the moral obligation, because if you don't stand up to a bully, they will also go on and bully others.

                  If I got it, is this ethical?

                  --
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                  • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:22PM (10 children)

                    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:22PM (#950084) Journal

                    I am NOT in a permanent fight with my neighbours. I am not an American, so don't you DARE misconstrue American infighting (either purposefully or not) with my situation. That's what you've been doing, and it's disingenuous at the very least. What TFA says has no application whatsoever to my situation. It talks specifically about polarization among US citizens only.

                    I've made my views clear many times. Trump is the crook that Americans got because in a democracy you ALWAYS get the government you deserve (not that the US is a democracy any more, but that is due to voters wilfully ignoring what's been going on for decades and instead looking for people who will feed their hyper-partisan interests - which again just goes to show that in a democracy you get the government you deserve; too weak-willed and ill-informed to ensure it stays a democracy? Don't blame the media, or bigcorp - look in the mirror).

                    And yes, standing up to bullies is part of ensuring that democracy continues to be a democracy. But Americans have become too selfish, to short-sighted, to stand up to bullies, even when the opportunity is handed to them on a silver platter, as with the Mueller report. Meuller chickened out. He could have, and should have, laid charges. "Policy" is not an excuse to not do what is right, same as "I vas chust followink orders".

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                    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:20PM (9 children)

                      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:20PM (#950115) Journal

                      I am not an American, so don't you DARE misconstrue American infighting (either purposefully or not) with my situation.

                      Unreserved apologies for that.

                      And yes, standing up to bullies is part of ensuring that democracy continues to be a democracy. But Americans have become too selfish, to short-sighted, to stand up to bullies...

                      However, by your own admission, you have - legally speaking - no skin in the American's (correction: USians) political game.
                      Are you sure you can act as a "moral compass" for them? If they don't actually want to live in a democracy, if they traded democracy in exchange for their "temporary embarrassed billionaire"... who am I or you to say they must do otherwise.

                      (Note that I said I see their infight as irrational - a matter of personal opinion - not that they are not entitled to do it. Whatever float their boats.
                      The mainland Chinese seem to be happier with their govt, to the point of blaming Hong Kong for making such a fuss.
                      The Vietnamese seem to be happy enough with their still communist regime - many visit Australia and choose to go back.
                      Heck, the majority of Cubans made their choice too - as a fun fact, their life expectancy [worldlifeexpectancy.com] make them live under their regime one year longer than USians [worldlifeexpectancy.com])

                      He could have, and should have, laid charges.

                      You know the "Fiat justitia, pereat mundus"? In an approximate (tongue in cheeck) translation: "Rulz are rulz and if all break them, the entire civilization collapses anyway. Zo, let the mundus to pereat sooner if so it wishes, we are gonna uphold the rulz, 'cause that's what make us different from the barbarians". Do you really really want to fault him for that?
                      ...

                      And still propose that the rulez which you tabled are better and it is those that must be followed?
                      --
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                      • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:04PM (8 children)

                        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:04PM (#950144) Journal
                        At this point it's apparent that moral and ethical compasses are irrelevant to many Americans - they openly admit it. Can't argue ethics with people who have none and are proud of it. Can't expect them to base their actions on right vs wrong when the only right they acknowledge is their right to win at all costs. So the only tactic that can be used is the same one as dealing with bullies - because they will never fight fair.

                        People asked how it was possible for the nation of Germany to descend into Naziism. But Germans voted for Hitler, same as all hey voted for Trump. Both were opportunistic racists, and racism is a lever like none other. -

                        At least this time it will most likely not engulf the whole world. That's one benefit of the US's policy of increased self-isolation. But it's gonna be messy for everyone no matter where you live on the planet.

                        --
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                        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 31 2020, @11:51PM (7 children)

                          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday January 31 2020, @11:51PM (#952063) Journal

                          I just hope to fuck I can get out of this place before it all comes crashing down. Being poor and female and gay (and closeted, in meatspace...) does not make this an easy proposition, especially not given all the shit I'm dealing with.

                          --
                          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                          • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:29AM (6 children)

                            by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:29AM (#952083) Journal

                            Now that Trump will be acquitted and probably win election you're a prime candidate for refugee status in Canada. Persecution for being lgbt is often invoked by refugees.

                            With the way the refugee process is already backed up something like 5 years with appeals due to the huge influx of people coming illegally into Canada by just walking across the border at Roxton Pond, it's well known how easy peasey it is.

                            Walk across the border.
                            Nice cops arrest you, bring you and your baggage to a trailer park office
                            Say you're a refugee.
                            Do the paperwork.
                            Identity check to make sure there's no international arrest warrants
                            Get paperwork showing you're eligible for free health care, public assistance
                            Brought by bus to temp shelter if you don't have anyone to go to.

                            In by 9, out by 5

                            https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/refugee-claimants-forced-to-turn-to-welfare-as-work-permits-stalled-in-federal-bureaucracy-1.4769385 [ctvnews.ca]

                            Bring documentation of education and work experience and you'll probably be working within a month - we have a severe worker shortage,

                            Or just apply for a work visa. Like I said, huge worker shortage, government is actively holding job fairs in other countries.

                            --
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                            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:37AM (5 children)

                              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:37AM (#952088) Journal

                              Think I should get PTCB certified first? Would having the shiny expensive piece of paper that tells the HR grindbots I know what I know make a work visa easier?

                              --
                              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                              • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:58AM (4 children)

                                by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Saturday February 01 2020, @12:58AM (#952095) Journal

                                You can do it on the job here - or maybe not even bother. I know my sister worked for years as a lab tech - but her husband owned the pharmacy. Either way, education is WAY cheaper here. I think someone with refugee status pays the same as a local - sometihing like 5-10% of what an education costs in the USA for a degree.

                                --
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                                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 01 2020, @02:25AM (3 children)

                                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday February 01 2020, @02:25AM (#952127) Journal

                                  Oh, it's a corporate cert, not an accredited education program. It's like CompTIA A+ for people who put pills in bottles instead of RAM in DIMM slots.

                                  --
                                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                  • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Saturday February 01 2020, @02:35AM (2 children)

                                    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Saturday February 01 2020, @02:35AM (#952131) Journal
                                    Okay. Then you won't need it. I've asked my sister what the route is for such things here - explained that with Trump now likely to be re-elected there's going to be a lot more illegal refugees coming to Canada. The labour shortage up here is crazy - we even have government programs encouraging foreign restaurant workers to immigrate because restaurants can't find the staff. Complete with free second language courses if needed.
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                                    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:14AM (1 child)

                                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday February 01 2020, @03:14AM (#952153) Journal

                                      Helluva world we live in, huh? :/ I'll have a year of outpatient experience this June; with that and the PTCB cert I'll be attractive enough to come in on a work visa, no?

                                      --
                                      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                      • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:06AM

                                        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Saturday February 01 2020, @04:06AM (#952174) Journal
                                        You probably already are. Like I said, we've got shortages - it's on the news pretty much every night as employers complain to the government to do something more
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              • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:07PM (4 children)

                by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @03:07PM (#950077) Journal
                What "permanent fight with my neighbour?" Never happened, so stop with the bullshit strawman arguments.
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                • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:23PM (3 children)

                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:23PM (#950116) Journal

                  Ok, ok. My fault for not noticing you trace moral rules for the people living inside from the outside the system.

                  --
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                  • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:18PM (2 children)

                    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:18PM (#950151) Journal

                    Why not? There's a reason why the Universal Declaration of Human Rights uses the term "universal." I don't see any reason to suspend judgment of what is moral or ethical just because of a border. Racism, homophobia, transmisogeny, sexual violence, slavery, child exploitation, rape, men telling women what we can and can't do with our bodies without giving us equal domain over theirs, animal cruelty, re-education camps for religious minorities, environmental destruction, FGM, attempts to change someone's sexual or gender orientation, torture, etc don't become okay just because some country says that it's part of their local customs.

                    Neither human, animal, or environmental rights stop at borders. The reality is that reality ignores borders anyway - just ask the coronavirus patients. What goes around comes around whether we like it or not.

                    --
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                    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:02PM (1 child)

                      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:02PM (#950264) Journal

                      There's a reason why the Universal Declaration of Human Rights uses the term "universal."

                      There's also a reason for which the document is not called "Universal Declaration of Human Obligations".
                      The declaration give you the right to speak you mind, yes. But when they are giving away their rights by themselves, I believe the same declaration give them the right to do so within their borders.

                      --
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                      • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:22PM

                        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @10:22PM (#950278) Journal
                        Actually, signatories are required to protect those rights as one of their obligations. Treaties give rise to both rights and obligations.
                        --
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        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:18AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 28 2020, @04:18AM (#949861)

          I'm very much a pacifist, but once in 2nd grade I had a moment like this--

          Besides, every once in a while you get a lucky hit in. The school bully had me on my back on the school playground, was beating me, and I got in a lucky punch that knocked his front tooth out. Ended being bullied for a year - well worth it.

          In my case I gave the bully a major bloody nose with a lucky swing. By the time the master arrived, I was in tears, sorry that I hit the bully, and there was some confusion as to what had transpired!

          That bully and I went all the way through high school together and he always left me alone. He became a really big guy, think he played tackle on the (American) football team. A few times I overheard him telling other bullies "watch out for that red head, he's got a mean hook".

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:10AM (7 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:10AM (#949933) Journal

      The only way to deal with either a bully or a psycho is to stand up to them hard, fast, and frequently.

      Who's the bully/psycho?

      he same game theory that gave us MAD clearly shows this is the only way.

      Sounds like you need different game theory then.

      Sorry, c0lo is right here. Bullying/psychoing is behavior not a person. Second, I find it bizarre you think this works. Trump got in because he was able to take stances that got other politicians ostracized, like an anti-immigration stance. His bullying was rewarded not deterred.

      • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:15PM (6 children)

        by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @02:15PM (#950061) Journal
        And you too demonstrate your usual wilfully lacking understanding. No nuantwith you, is there. Fighting a bully doesn't make you a bully, any more than trying to stop someone from stealing your stuff makes you a thief.

        You always have a right to stand up to aggression. And we know what history says about appeasement, and about standing by and not intervening when an aggressor attacks someone else. Think of how yesterday was the 75th anniversary of auschwitch, and how the bystander effect permits crap like that to happen, as everyone waits for someone else to intervene.

        Bullies must be confronted, even when they're bullying someone else and not you. Just because you're a spineless coward doesn't mean everyone has to be.

        --
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        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @05:53PM (5 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @05:53PM (#950140) Journal

          Bullies must be confronted, even when they're bullying someone else and not you.

          Even when they're not bullying? Polarizing doesn't just happen because someone else is doing something wrong. It happens when more of everything that is done by others is perceived in a worse light.

          • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:36PM (4 children)

            by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:36PM (#950161) Journal
            If they're not bullying anyone, what's your point? It's certainly not consistency of language. "Stand up to bullies " means exactly that and nothing more. If they're not bullying, then they're not bullies. If they start bullying again, stand up against them again. Is that really too hard for you to figure out, or is your oppositional defiance disorder kicking in again?
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            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:45PM (3 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @06:45PM (#950166) Journal

              If they're not bullying anyone, what's your point?

              You're still standing up to them. Good behavior is treated the same as bad behavior.

              "Stand up to bullies " means exactly that and nothing more.

              Except, of course, when it doesn't mean exactly that.

              • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @07:01PM (2 children)

                by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @07:01PM (#950181) Journal
                How is good behaviour treated the same as bad behaviour, except in your warped little mind?
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                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 28 2020, @07:24PM (1 child)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 28 2020, @07:24PM (#950192) Journal
                  Because you made no such distinction. You have yet to speak of non-bullying behavior from Trump, the other side, etc. It's great to say that you'll reward good behavior and stand up to bad. But irrelevant if you see all behavior as wholly good or bad. That latter is part of the polarization effect. My tribe can do no wrong. Your tribe can do no right.
                  • (Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday January 28 2020, @09:20PM

                    by barbara hudson (6443) <barbara.Jane.hudson@icloud.com> on Tuesday January 28 2020, @09:20PM (#950240) Journal

                    Again, that's an assumption that's entirely on you. Also, Trump has always been a bully, enabled first by his father bailing him out repeatedly (bullies don't learn that there are consequences for their actions) and then by a crooked deal with Deutch Bank backed by guarantees from Putin as well as Saudi Arabian money.

                    You don't get to say you're not a bully if you act like a bully every day. Same as you don't get to say you're not a liar if you stop lying for 10 minutes.

                    Trump voters are very much aware he's a bully - it's one of the things they like about him. They're living their secret power fantasies vicariously through him. They too would like to be able to buy sex without repercussions, be openly racist, openly misogynistic, lgbt-bashers - he's their wet dreams come true.

                    Too bad about the collagen implants in his face not holding up, but they'll overlook it, same as they overlook his huge bald spot. Because he's giving voice to all their inner most deep-rooted hate. Same as Hitler did. And they both got elected ... about the only good thing to say about Hitler is that he killed Hitler. Hopefully Trump will do likewise.

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