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DNA Databases in the U.S. and China Are Tools of Racial Oppression
Two major world powers, the United States and China, have both collected an enormous number of DNA samples from their citizens, the premise being that these samples will help solve crimes that might have otherwise gone unsolved. While DNA evidence can often be crucial when it comes to determining who committed a crime, researchers argue these DNA databases also pose a major threat to human rights.
In the U.S., the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has a DNA database called the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) that currently contains over 14 million DNA profiles. This database has a disproportionately high number of profiles of black men, because black Americans are arrested five times as much as white Americans. You don't even have to be convicted of a crime for law enforcement to take and store your DNA; you simply have to have been arrested as a suspect.
[...] As for China, a report that was published by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute in mid-June claims that China is operating the "world's largest police-run DNA database" as part of its powerful surveillance state. Chinese authorities have collected DNA samples from possibly as many as 70 million men since 2017, and the total database is believed to contain as many as 140 million profiles. The country hopes to collect DNA from all of its male citizens, as it argues men are most likely to commit crimes.
DNA is reportedly often collected during what are represented as free physicals, and it's also being collected from children at schools. There are reports of Chinese citizens being threatened with punishment by government officials if they refuse to give a DNA sample. Much of the DNA that's been collected has been from Uighur Muslims that have been oppressed by the Chinese government and infamously forced into concentration camps in the Xinjiang province.
Related:
EFF to Supreme Court: The Fourth Amendment Covers DNA Collection
EFF Sues Justice Dept. Over FBI's Rapid DNA Plans
Kuwait Creating Mandatory DNA Database of All Citizens, Residents--and Visitors
San Diego Police Department Accused of Unlawful DNA Collection From Minors
Massive DNA Collection Campaign in Xinjiang, China
Study Predicts Appearance From Genome Sequence Data
GEDmatch: "What If It Was Called Police Genealogy?"
Bavarian Law Broadens Police Surveillance and DNA Profiling Powers
DNA Collected from Golden State Killer Suspect's Car, Leading to Arrest
Another Alleged Murderer Shaken Out of the Family Tree
Indiana Murder Suspect Found by Using Genealogical Website
Public Ancestry Data Can be Used to Narrow Down the Identity Behind an Anonymous DNA Sample
Rapid DNA Analysis Machines Coming to Police Departments
FamilyTreeDNA Deputizes Itself, Starts Pitching DNA Matching Services To Law Enforcement
Genealogy Sites Have Helped Identify Suspects. Now They've Helped Convict One
U.S. to Collect DNA of All Undocumented Migrants
US Court Let Police Search GEDmatch's Entire DNA Database Despite Protections
China Uses DNA to Map Faces, With Help From the West
Cousin Took a DNA Test? Courts Could Use it to Argue You are More Likely to Commit Crimes
Ancestry Says Police Requested Access To Its DNA Database
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday July 07 2020, @02:57PM (10 children)
National DNA databases will lead to tyranny and the loss of our rights as humans.
One solution would be for the United Nations to step in and seize all these DNA databases from nations which have them. That would put an end to this.
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 1) by PaperNoodle on Tuesday July 07 2020, @03:15PM (8 children)
I sort of agree with you but then I have to question if that position is a form of neo-luddism. What is the fundamental difference between a DNA database and what Alphonse Berillon [wikipedia.org] did? I could imagine a similar argument take place in the 1840's with the police starting detailed records of physical measurements and pictures of people used to prosecute criminal investigations. It's the beginning of a surveillance police state when what came before was so limited.
Maybe it's only the national aspect of it and it is acceptable to have local police do it? Again, I feel the need to agree but then I think of Alphonse Bertillon.
B3
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday July 07 2020, @03:27PM (2 children)
If the national aspect of DNA collection is a problem, why move DNA databases to the local police level where they cannot be consolidated? If we moved DNA databases to the global level, then they could be consolidated across nations. For our protection! Sort of like a benevolent older male sibling. Think of the children. We could collect DNA at birth and have a global registry. I nominate Facebook to operate it to ensure privacy.
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 1) by PaperNoodle on Tuesday July 07 2020, @03:49PM (1 child)
>If the national aspect of DNA collection is a problem, why move DNA databases to the local police level where they cannot be consolidated?
Local police have biometric records of suspects and criminals in their jurisdiction. There are federal crimes, investigations, suspects, and criminals that have biometric evidence that is recorded. Who should hold the biometric evidence for federal crimes?
Now let's say a suspect for serial murder is moving between states. New York has biometric evidence of crimes that look like they also took place by the same murderer in Mississippi and Texas. When does this interstate investigation fall under federal jurisdiction and can the FBI utilize the DNA databases of the 3 states to investigate? If the FBI has constant access to all State DNA databases, what is the functional difference than if there was a single database?
Like I said, I am inclined to agree with you but it's good to question your own positions and knee jerk reaction.
> We could collect DNA at birth
That's China. No thank you.
B3
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday July 07 2020, @05:59PM
(I didn't use any no-sarcasm tags.)
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 2) by Kitsune008 on Tuesday July 07 2020, @04:31PM (4 children)
I realize sarcasm is hard to detect online, but DannyB's comment history will give you a clue.
Hint: Usually when he posts a serious comment, there will be a 'not sarcasm' label displayed. Otherwise, consider 'unlabeled' comments as humorous/sarcastic benign trolling. :-)
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday July 07 2020, @04:37PM (3 children)
People who do this irritate me. If you're never going to take a conversation seriously, why are you acting like you're contributing to it in the first place?
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Kitsune008 on Tuesday July 07 2020, @05:53PM
Why are you asking me about someone else posting a comment? You do realize I'm not DannyB, or do you not?
I was just pointing out a pattern to DannyB's comments for the benefit of the poster I was replying to, not making DannyB's comments for him.
Go bother someone else, as I could not care less about what irritates you.
BTW, not all conversations deserve to be taken seriously, like this one you are trying to start.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday July 07 2020, @06:02PM (1 child)
<no-sarcasm>
Sorry to irritate you.
I feel like I am actually contributing, in some part.
The phrase "benevolent older male sibling" was perhaps a clue. (big brother)
If all national DNA databases were taken to a global DNA database, imagine the level of control, globally, that could occur. People could be tracked globally. And facial recognition.
</no-sarcasm>
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 08 2020, @09:10AM
It is contributing, to point things out whether directly or indirectly. Sarcasm is a tool. If you over-wield it, at least you are not a bullshitter - you care about the truth, and you point out your subjective feelings by phrasing the opposite in ways which seem ludicrous, so, good job.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday July 07 2020, @04:34PM
So instead of our governments having our DNA, now the U.N. does instead?
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @03:14PM (4 children)
I thought California at least was collecting DNA from any baby born there and inserting it into a database.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday July 07 2020, @03:30PM (2 children)
I would please like to know how to insert physical object such as baby into a database. To increase my proficiency.
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @04:49PM
Learn to English.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday July 08 2020, @06:15AM
I would please like to know how to insert physical object such as baby into a database.
In byte sized chunks
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 08 2020, @12:22AM
Only the pickaninnies... white parents can opt out for religious reasons.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @03:17PM (3 children)
How exactly is DNA different from fingerprints in this respect? Other than being newer technology and therefore scary?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday July 07 2020, @03:32PM
We're not supposed to see the point.
We only feel the point when their spear is at our back.
Please add a helping of facial recognition to global DNA databases. For our safety!
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 4, Insightful) by takyon on Tuesday July 07 2020, @04:00PM
Your appearance can be derived/predicted, genetic diseases you have can be identified, you can be cloned or your DNA can be used to make offspring in the future without your knowledge, and your DNA can be synthesized and sprayed onto a crime scene to frame you. All from a digitized full genome sequence that can be losslessly compressed down to a few megabytes.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @05:18PM
Same reason hoovering up data from the internet is scarier than wire tapping: scale. Targeted collection of information is fine, collecting it on society at scale is creepy. DNA is already kind of blurring the lines between targeting and scale because it can be connected between people. Your finger prints are yours - your DNA, by contrast, is connected to your entire family going back quite far. It is also collected vastly more easily. Collecting complete and clear fingerprint sample is a very conspicuous thing. Collecting DNA at scale can be done completely inconspicuously. For instance the way we found Bin Laden was by setting up 'vaccination clinics' in the region of Pakistan we suspected he was in. We mass harvested the DNA samples and then ran them against a sample from somebody else in Bin Laden's family. We got a hit and used it to find his relatives which led us to him. After we killed him, numerous local vaccine clinic workers were murdered under suspicion of being CIA informants/agents. Team America, fuck yeah!
Let me ask you a simple question. What are the odds of another bad guy along the lines of a Hitler getting into power? People might disagree on the answer, but nobody would ever genuinely say it's 0%. It will happen, sooner or later. And all of these systems we're building up today are going to be used in the dystopia of tomorrow. I mean there's some really terrifying scenarios in near future (if not present day) technology. Imagine things like an engineered virus designed to target a specific population group, yet have no effect on others. You create scenarios where the bad guys of tomorrow could engage in a genocide scale event without anybody even realizing, including the victims! Imagine if the virus is designed to simply impair fertility or otherwise result in a 'natural' genocide.
The Jews in Israel actually did this exact thing [independent.co.uk] in a much more primitive form by giving Ethiopian migrants birth control measures without their consent or knowledge. It was only discovered when people started to notice that the Ethiopian fertility rate was near zero.
(Score: -1, Troll) by VLM on Tuesday July 07 2020, @03:19PM (20 children)
Isn't it anti-science to disbelieve in evolution?
Try an inductive proof of oppression. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that we actually do punish black offenders more intensively than whites for the same crime. And in some parts of the country we've been doing that since the (first, so far) civil war, many generations. That should have a HUGE impact on behavior today if the cops historically gunned down the bottom dwellers of only one race for generations.
If we unjustly kill more black murderers than white murderers, for many generations, then murderers should be pretty well bred out of the black population, so you'd expect that black areas like Chicago would have negligible to zero levels levels of murder, whereas the unoppressed whites of rural WV would have staggeringly higher (in comparison) murder rates. I mean, yeah, you'll be told that poverty breeds crime and the crackers in WV are much poorer than the blacks in Chicago are, on average, so in this inductive proof rural WV must be an absolute war zone compared to safe Chicago, but OK lets just check the results.
So we'll pull up the crime stats, and the per capita murder rate for the entire city of Chicago not just the black parts, is five times the murder rate of the dirt poor crackers living in WV. Chicago is maybe one third black, so the black on black murder rate might be three times the five or about 15 times higher than the white on white murder rate. Which seems near-ish to actual FBI national crime stats.
Huh. I guess the inductive proof backfired and clearly we're not oppressing black criminals hard enough to evolve their behavior to a civilized level, or at least to raise them to the civilization level of rural WV.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @03:50PM
The genetic predisposition to sociopathy is believed to be stress driven and sociopaths do not display a monogamous mating strategy. Female sexual availability when a percentage of the male population is removed reinforces this. Trumps First Step Act which would reduce black male incarceration for minor crimes may go some way to ensuring stable black families (opposite to BLM "demands") and ending the vicious circle.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @04:06PM (13 children)
The whole of Australia was colonized by criminals. If crime was hereditary, as you seem to infer, then shouldn't criminality in Australia be, if not the norm, at least measurebly higher, statistically ?
And yet, it is not.
And one more thing: Racists always seem to bring out the "blacks are X times more numerous in jail than whites, while being only Y percent of the population" argument. They seem to have a hard time understanding the "correlation is not causation" concept.
Just one more proof of your average racist's intellectual inferiority.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @04:23PM
Poor analogy. Immigration continued into Australia for white people after it stopped being a destination for criminals, so you can't say it was a static population of criminals. American blacks, on the other hand, are essentially the same population as always.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @04:40PM (2 children)
I have a simple question for you. In the British Empire in the 18th to mid 19th century, what do you think the penalty was for most of any significant crime? I assume you can get the answer there right: death. So then what does that tell us about the convicts sent to Australia? Most people exiled were sent for generally minor crimes or were political prisoners. Those that were sent their for more severe crimes were generally sentenced to life, meaning they general did not procreate. It's not like Australia was a freezone for criminals - most were used as slaves. Consequently, Australia was primarily settled by lawful settlers and people convicted for some pretty minor things. There's a really neat page that gives you the historical records here [convictrecords.com.au]. Really fun to go through!
And no correlation does not necessarily mean causation, but all causal acts will of course also yield a correlation. Blacks, by most of every single possible measurement, simply engage in much more crime - and vastly more if we restrict it to only violent crime. And consequently end up in prison much more often. You'll even find in developed black majority nations, they also see crazy high crime rates. *shrug* It is what it is. Doesn't mean blacks don't deserve to live and breed as much as the next man, but it's only by accepting reality that one can ever hope to improve it. All this flailing and identity politics stuff just ultimately means nothing gets done and things only get worse. Pretty good show if you're after a dystopia, not so much if you'd like a better society for all people.
As an aside, I'd recommend reading this [wikipedia.org] interesting article on Wikipedia.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday July 08 2020, @12:36PM (1 child)
You're trying to use facts an reason against someone's religious beliefs. Its not going to work.
The best way to deal with irrational beliefs is to trigger them so they look like lunatics when they're in a violent religious frenzy. Like when I get called a skin suit and a nazi over some common sense obvious reality, that kind of language is making someone look bad, not me, LOL.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 08 2020, @06:17PM
Heh. What you say applies, and it's funny that you don't see that your own bigotry is akin religious beliefs.
Oh yes definitely not you. Definitely. (lol!)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @05:52PM (3 children)
Also, I'm curious about something. A couple of days ago in France there was a group of 5 "people" who wanted to board a bus that had a digital display indicating that masks were required. The driver would not let them board the bus without having masks on. So they beat him to death. The media reports [bbc.com] are leaving out any information on the suspects. France is about 85% European/white, 10% North African, 3.5% black, and 1.5% Asian. Who do you think did it? Since we know nothing, would you assume it's 85% likely to be a group of French "people"?
If you're being at all honest, you know exactly who did this. And it's so incredibly biased towards this group that the absurdly low numerical odds (based on demographics) don't even meaningfully change the odds. I think reality is on sort of a horse shoe. In the middle is reality. On one end you have genuine racists who see everything in an unrealistic fashion and think group [x] is inherently irredeemably awful. On the other end you have people who see everything in an unrealistic fashion and think group [x] is inherently absolutely fine with any issues solely being the fault of anything and everybody besides the group themselves. Both extremes are equally stupid and equally regressive.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @06:37PM (2 children)
Well, judging by the BBC article, in this case it wasn't the usual suspects. A-rabs don't usually take dogs with them when they go out.
Le Figaro quotes the police, that the suspects are the classic drunken hobo trash European cities had, even before mass immigration: https://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/bayonne-un-chauffeur-de-bus-en-etat-de-mort-cerebrale-apres-une-agression-20200706 [lefigaro.fr]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @07:58PM
Were they wearing red baseball caps with some motto embroidered on them?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 08 2020, @03:53PM
I'm sure within a few days their identities will be revealed. Beating a bus driver to death for telling you to wear a mask is something the vast majority of people are simply incapable of. It makes just no sense whatsoever. This is trademark 3.5%.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @05:52PM
Psychopathy is a hereditary [nih.gov] neurological condition. [newatlas.com] Sociopathy (PCL-R factor 2 [wikipedia.org]) is more complex. [thetech.org] It's not a nature Vs. nurture argument but an interaction of both. in-utero testosterone exposure [abc.net.au] will typically be higher when one parent has a high-conflict personality and during puberty [sciencedirect.com] based on environment.
To summarize a massive area of research: traits of criminality [jamanetwork.com] are often part hereditary and part environmental. [cambridge.org]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @05:53PM (2 children)
SoylentNews is filled with racist alt-righters.
Aristarchus was right all along. Hell, even TMB is jumping on the "fact" based racist bandwagon. So much anger about the fall of white hegemony, never in my life would I have thought it was so bad.
"Treat other people with respect."
"FUCK YOU SJW CUCK BOY!"
What a bunch of assholes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @06:16PM (1 child)
"facts are racist"
The dynamics of criminality are well understood by everyone except criminals. What does that say about the leftists who (as recent events attest) want only to gain power by exploiting perpetuation of the cycle? Sit this one out you moron!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 08 2020, @02:18AM
When the facts are generated from systemic racism well yes, yes they are!
You're a racist twat, go suck some more Trump mushroom penis you degenerate douche bag.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @07:55PM
This is why we cain't have no white superemeracy! White racists are just too stupid!
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @05:48PM
Ok racist fuckhead, time to crawl back into the sewer.
The alt-righters like you have taken on a new tactic of re-hiding your racism and working double time on radicalization. Only the most shallow logic is used by you deplorables to justify your prejudice with context being a word you reserve for excusing Trump's white supremacist garbage.
Truly we are in the worst timeline, I guess November will show us whether the Nazis come back or go into hiding for another 50 years.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @07:16PM (1 child)
Great! So have you just proven that there is no "murderer" gene? Because if there was one, it would have been bred out by now, right?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 07 2020, @08:52PM
No. [truecrimeforensics.com]
(Score: 2) by meustrus on Tuesday July 07 2020, @08:21PM (1 child)
Let me follow your reasoning here.
If a murder was more often punished by death in population A than population B, then you would expect after a significant period of time that population A would have less murder.
Population A has more murder. Therefore...the original premise holds, and it must be that murder isn't actually punished more in population A?
What? That's not how induction works.
Usually one uses this device when the idea lacks direct evidence. There's plenty of evidence that we do this, though. Even if your inductive argument was logically consistent, it would still be weaker than the evidence.
What your inductive thought experiment really proves is that unjust killings by the police do not improve crime rates, and may actually make them worse.
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
(Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday July 08 2020, @01:08AM
He's not arguing in good faith. VLM is one of the single worst sociopaths we have on the site. There is not a functioning human in there under the skin suit. Keep doing what you're doing here, but understand it's not for VLM's benefit; he's never, ever going to change, not in this lifetime at least. Rather, it's for anyone who has the misfortune of stepping in his effluent.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday July 07 2020, @04:30PM (3 children)
Next you'll tell me license plate readers are racist somehow, too?
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 3, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday July 07 2020, @05:08PM
They are. Try racing on streets with red-light cams and see.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 08 2020, @06:22PM (1 child)
If I set up license plate readers all around a predominantly-PoC community, and not around the "white" community, and then PoC are caught and punished for crimes that whites get away with, then ... yes?
Which is exactly what's happening here. Han aren't being sent to re-education centres, having forced live-in government officials, etc. Technology is a tool of racist oppression when it's wielded in that way.
Guns in the hands of Nazis - tools of racial oppression.
Next question?
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday July 09 2020, @01:09AM
The "just the facts" racists are hoping no one will point out sampling bias. So please do point it out at every opportunity.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 08 2020, @12:12AM (1 child)
Would DNA have helped catch the Black man who ran over the pink-hair transvestite protesting for #BLM in Seattle? Because that's some professional level irony there and that dude will cause a few SJW brains to strain themselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 08 2020, @01:10AM
The very definition of "don't play in traffic".