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Democrats want a truce with Section 230 supporters:
Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which says apps and websites aren't legally liable for third-party content, has inspired a lot of overheated rhetoric in Congress. Republicans like Sen. Josh Hawley (R-MO) have successfully framed the rule as a "gift to Big Tech" that enables social media censorship. While Democrats have very different critiques, some have embraced a similar fire-and-brimstone tone with the bipartisan EARN IT Act. But a Senate subcommittee tried to reset that narrative today with a hearing for the Platform Accountability and Consumer Transparency (PACT) Act, a similarly bipartisan attempt at a more nuanced Section 230 amendment. While the hearing didn't address all of the PACT Act's very real flaws, it presented the bill as an option for Section 230 defenders who still want a say in potential reforms.
[...] Still, Section 230 has been at the forefront of US politics for years, and some kind of change looks increasingly likely. If that's true, then particularly after today's hearing, a revised version of the PACT Act looks like the clearest existing option to preserve important parts of the law without dismissing calls for reform. And hashing out those specifics may prove more important than focusing on the policy's most hyperbolic critics.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday July 30 2020, @03:55PM (34 children)
Just remember, conservative who are cheering this on, SoylentNews is also protected by 230. And they also exercise editorial control over what gets published so if this gets repealed, and someone posts copyrighted material in a comment, this site can be sued out of existence very easily. YAY FREEDOM OF SPEECH!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @04:23PM (7 children)
Big tech companies have used 230 to become the richest most powerful corporations in the world. With a bait and a switch. "We like freedom of speech". Now? Removing communication from the government whether that be from Trumps twitter or dropping CSPAN on youtube because a politician said THE NAME THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED.
I don't think a corporation should be able to exert so much power and influence on the country at the expense of the people rights. Before it was Rober Barons and Company Towns. Now it's social media.
Whatever happens the result should be more freedom for people. I thought liberals stood for the little guy? When did they become the party of corporations?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @04:30PM
The democrat party? Probably when Clinton took control. The bleating sheep? I guess they're only there because of the brand's name recognition. Sort of like boomers watching CNN because they used to be a news channel.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday July 30 2020, @04:51PM (4 children)
Little guys like SoylentNews? Ones you're willing to sacrifice to satisfy your revenge boner for Twitter?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @05:28PM (3 children)
It is a shame that the big companies abused those protections that this has become an issue that threatens smaller players. Any change should maximize freedom and protections for those not abusing their positions to exert undue influence and control over nations and people.
Without addressing this issue we are on course for a social credit system implemented by Google and Facebook. They are private and can do anything they want. Cutting off your access to participate in society is just small cost to bear so that they can maintain their profits. Why would a bank want to do business with an unperson?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @03:55AM (2 children)
Google and Facebook and Twitter are *not* society. They're just websites.
They are completely superfluous and unnecessary. That many people flock to those websites doesn't make them the *entirety* of culture/society.
Maybe read a book or go to a museum or a concert instead. I guarantee you'll be much happier for it.
I ignore all that garbage and I certainly am.
And I'm currently reading Ian Banks' Culture Series [wikipedia.org] myself. It's a little uneven, but an interesting fictional universe. Or John D. McDonald's Travis McGee novels. Or Spengler's "Decline of the West." Or watch a movie. Or any of tens of millions of other things you could be doing instead of either inifinitely scrolling your FB/Twitter/Instagram/whatever feed, or whinging about how much that sucks. Get a life.
Doing that is much more enjoyable than looking at photos of some asshole's dinner or reading some in[s]ane screed about how Bill Gates wants to anally probe you and implant a tracking device in you.
Get a grip.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @01:50PM (1 child)
People are losing their jobs from social media campaigns. People have lost access to their lines of credit and bank accounts from social media campaigns.
It doesn't matter if you are on those platforms or not anymore because the mob is on them. The social media lynch mob uses them to coerce companies to stop any business with an unperson.
Facebook already collects information and has profiles for people not on their accounts. I wouldn't be surprised if google did something similar. They have already developed a social credit system for China. I don't find it a stretch to think that big companies and bank would outsource "safe" people searches and deny business with unpeople.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @04:08PM
Back in the early '90s, the company I worked for connected their email system to the Internet. When rolling this out, a memo was sent to employees about their policies WRT using external email.
The memo suggested (paraphrasing) that one should *not* put anything in an email that "...you wouldn't want to see on the front page of your local newspaper."
That was good advice then, and it's even better advice (and more important for "social media" posts) now.
Freedom of speech means that the *government* isn't allowed to retaliate against you for the things you say. That does *not* apply to individuals or private organizations.
Trying to get someone fired because they said something you don't like, outside of the context of their job is a dick move.
And while it's nasty and inappropriate, it's not a crime. If you think it should be, write your congressman.
Alternatively, take a page from those assholes and build support for getting *them* fired for being assholes.
The government may not censor your speech (although that's not absolute -- nor should it be -- either) or retaliate against you for your speech. In most other contexts (at least in the US), those restrictions do not apply.
That's the law. If you don't like it, work to get it changed.
What's more, there have *always* been assholes and busybodies (look up 'poison pen' letters for an example). In fact, I'm pretty sure that's been going on at least since we learned to speak.
The only difference is that instead of only your town or neighborhood potentially reacting to what you say, just about everyone can do so.
Is it right? I don't think so. But any *legal* mechanism that might restrict the assholes (a tiny minority of us) from speaking out also restricts the rest of us. And that's something I strongly oppose.
If you want freedom of expression to be a real thing, even malicious, nasty scumbags have to be allowed to speak too.
Heinlein, as usual, had useful things to say about this:
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/135412-the-correct-way-to-punctuate-a-sentence-that-states-of [goodreads.com]
But that's not enough in this context. The other side of the coin is:
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/3264-i-am-free-no-matter-what-rules-surround-me-if [goodreads.com]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Thursday July 30 2020, @06:53PM
Insightful grouping:
Robber Barons, Company Towns, Social Media
The first two are easily seen for the disgusting abuse they were. The last will be seen that way 100 years hence, and some will see it now.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @04:47PM (21 children)
A very fair point.
Most of the early internet was 'the gentlemans agreement'. Basically do not act like a prick and you are cool. The existing 230 basically put that into law. However, the DNC decided to dropkick the GOP off the internet. There are videos of insiders talking about exactly that. They have discussions on how to suppress speech that does not match their worldview. The 'gentlemans agreement' is basically broken at that point. They decided to act like a prick. Do you expect the other side to say 'ah no problem' or do you think they might maybe fight it?
I have been saying this for years. The whole tech speech thing is ripe for a "Title I" style law. Make no bones about it. Google and Facebook lead the charge in 2008. Obama himself called it a new way to run elections using Share Blue. The DNC was cool with that until they realized they had created a monster that the RNC can use too. Now they are trying government censorship by proxy.
When you have senators and congresscritters unable to run their own campaigns because they get marked down as 'hate speech' you are going to end up under a regulatory set of laws that will make Title I fines look like small pocket change.
It is funny as this is nearly the same reasons we ended up with Title I in the first place. Title II is about to get gutted and re-written if the DNC does not back off. FAANG and twitter is going to have to deal with that fallout. It will cost them billions. They will wage an information campaign and gaslight us how we are wrecking their free speech while on the other hand they suppress thousands of others.
Instead of removing these people. Give the people the ability to filter it. "I do not want to see anything from this person ever again". I use the hell out of that feature on any platform that has it. It makes things much nicer. When all the blue checkmarks went 'silent' for a few days twitter was actually kinda cool again. But they are right back at it.
Then on top of all of that. Getting rid of actual trolls and people just muckmaking will be a real PITA. All because the DNC has collectively stopped and said 'hey wait what if my ideas actually suck. Nope not possible they suck even harder and not only that they are evil so I am justified in this'. Discussion is impossible under these rules. They know it and they love it.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday July 30 2020, @04:54PM (13 children)
HAHAHAHAHA!!! Add that to the list of superpowers the DNC possesses. It goes under the mind control ray they used to force more people to vote for Biden in the primary.
*waves hand* this is not the website you are looking for [gop.com]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @08:42PM (10 children)
I can find vids of Obama praising it. I can find videos of top Google people crying about 'orange man elected'. I can find vids of internal people at facebook saying they are just deleting conservative posts.
Your pathetic sith tricks do not work on me.
Remember Twitter does not shadowban people. Because their GUI does not say 'shadowban'.
You for one second think the lady who hung out with Jim Jones does not control the DNC? She does not mind taking money from someone who humble brags about not quite being a Nazi but it being the best time of his life? The same guy who humble brags he nearly tanked the brithish pound? Pull the other one.
You think for one second that what they show you is true? This is the truth. This is what they have planed for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJSiV_R2uiI [youtube.com]
Pay attention to the one guy in the crowd yelling. He sees them for what they are and how they are fucking him over (again). How does he know? He lives their shit every day. Democrat run cities are crap holes because the democrats made it that way. NY we joked about walling it off and turning it into a prison until they elected a Republican to clean that shit up. 2 terms of Democrats and that joke is starting to be kind of funny again.
Add that to the list of superpowers the DNC possesses/I
They fucking censored the president of the united states. In what way is it not a super power? Explain please? Because we are all ears on how the DNC has not coordinated a full on attack on the GOP.
For their next trick watch them blame the riots on Trump. Watch how all the news orgs suddenly change what they say about 'protesters' to suddenly being 'agitators and white supremacists'. That is happening right now before you eyes.
The DNC has brought their A game out this time for persuasion. If it was not downright evil you could admire it.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @08:55PM
Links or it didn't happen.
What's more, Google/Facebook != DNC
The DNC (unlike Antifa) actually has an organizational structure, with Tom Perez at the top of that structure.
Evidence Motherfucker. Do you have any?
Note that typing "I saw it" isn't evidence.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @09:01PM (2 children)
Individuals being shitty is not a conspiracy. The rightwing pundits have turned you formerly reasonable people into hate filled sacks of propaganda. You generate a reality distortion field so intense that you actually LIKE Donald Trump. Wtf?
(Score: 2, Flamebait) by Phoenix666 on Friday July 31 2020, @06:24PM (1 child)
Individuals being shitty is not a conspiracy. The leftwing pundits have turned you formerly reasonable people into hate filled sacks of propaganda. You generate a reality distortion field so intense that you actually LIKE Joe Biden. Wtf?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 01 2020, @12:58AM
I see what you did there. Super clever but nope, pretty much no one likes Biden. We just like him about 10^23 times more than Trump. Next time don't set the bar so low?
(Score: 2) by meustrus on Thursday July 30 2020, @10:12PM (4 children)
When the American Wolf [washingtonpost.com] shows up, armed like cops, acting like cops, these 'agitators and white supremacists' will definitely be news. They will be the new most dangerous thing going on in America.
It'll be just like when Egypt was in trouble over the Muslim Brotherhood. People didn't like them. Enough were sympathetic to the military that the military was able to take control. Make things 10x worse.
Those 'agitators and white supremacists', and their sympathizers and apologists, will proudly proclaim the destruction of their enemies. You're doing it right now: you've named the DNC, accused them of pulling the strings on a massive conspiracy to...I don't know exactly, govern things incompetently?
It will sound just like the leftist protestors in your video, who themselves sound like Trump voters four years ago. Let's burn this down. Chaos. Rebuild from the ashes.
It's all the same, see? What you (and I) really need is some perspective.
Talk to people that don't care about politics. There's plenty of them. Ask them how things are going. Are they better off now than they were last year? Two years ago? Four? Eight? If we don't count this year, then it seems like everything has been...mostly the same.
Of course, a lot of people lost finances in 2008. But they didn't lose their lives. People figured something out and moved on, maybe a little less prosperous. What's really changed since then?
I guess there's more rioting now. Social media sucks worse and worse every year. A whole lot of rich people turned out to be objectively terrible human beings; can't say I'm surprised that's true, but I guess it's surprising we care about that now.
Are we more prosperous? Well, that depends on where we are. I've seen a huge amount of growth in my metro area for many years. I've also seen problems over the last few years with local industry, including my employer, due to...something going on with China.
But really, things haven't changed much. America is still America. You and I might be really pissed off by opposing politics, but in the end, it all washes out.
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @10:37PM (3 children)
Look at Russia. Imagine yourself in there. Realize that governing things incompetently enough is no laughing matter at all.
If Russia is still too tame for you, look at Venezuela.
There is no human creation so great that incompetent rulers and malicious hangers-on could not ruin in mere years.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @03:59AM (2 children)
As the last three years have proven in spades. Thanks other AC!
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Phoenix666 on Friday July 31 2020, @06:26PM (1 child)
Quite. Look at what Bill de Blasio has done to New York City.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 04 2020, @07:28AM
Well, while Billy Boy may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, he's a lot less of an authoritarian, undemocratic scumbag as the previous two.
I'll take that every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @10:33PM
He doesn't have to watch. DNCMonkey is already pushing that talking point.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @11:46AM (1 child)
That wasn't a mind control ray; it was just an endless amount of propaganda by corporate media outlets to try to convince the old voters who still stupidly watch their garbage networks to vote for Biden.
Is comparing Bernie's victory in Nevada to the Nazi invasion of France fair coverage? Is it normal to you to focus on the second, third, and even fourth place finishers in a primary instead of the actual winner (Bernie Sanders), but then turn around and endlessly talk about how amazing it is that Biden won South Carolina? They did endless propaganda for Biden after his victory in South Carolina, pushing the notion that that victory somehow made him more 'electable,' in a primary that was about perceived electability. There are reports that Obama got involved behind the scenes to convince Buttigieg and Klobuchar to drop out right before Super Tuesday and endorse Biden. Not surprising, but it also shows that the odds were overwhelmingly stacked against Bernie.
Now, why would corporate media outlets like MSNBC, CNN, and so on do endless propaganda against Bernie, bemoan all of his victories, and then take the first opportunity possible to relentlessly promote a seemingly viable opponent? Because they knew he threatens the status quo and their corporate power structures.
It's pure stupidity to say that these things didn't have an effect on the results of the primary. This is obvious to everyone but you, apparently. In the end, you're just a democratic establishment hack trying to normalize rampant corruption and distract from the massive issues the DNC has by pointing out that the RNC is worse.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Phoenix666 on Friday July 31 2020, @06:39PM
Yes, that is so. It is also no surprise this time because the DNC literally rigged the primaries against Bernie in 2016. The Democratic Party is a charade.
I said as much this time to a couple friends who were fellow Bernie supporters then. They really, really thought this time it would be different, that Bernie would win through. They got more and more excited the worse Biden was doing in the early primaries. They told me I was wrong, so wrong. Even when Biden started to turn it around they assured me Bernie would prevail in a contested convention. They are chagrined now. Yet, they will probably shut up and pull the lever for Biden anyway, like good little soldiers. Tribalism is a powerful force.
So I quite agree with you: the game is rigged. The only effective action to take is to vote with our feet and with our dollars.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @08:52PM
[Citation Needed]
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @10:17PM (5 children)
The fact that this comment is modded troll really highlights who the facists are. They cant have debate, they just suppress speech they dont like. This is why these things are changing. Tech and media are for everyone, not just little wankers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 31 2020, @01:10AM (4 children)
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday July 31 2020, @06:41PM (3 children)
Don't they know you are entitled to silence others because you are so moral, good, and perfect? Why don't they know you are so moral, good, and perfect?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 01 2020, @01:02AM
So down modding is censorship? Might want to tell TMB, he usually cares about that sort of thing and would be SHOCKED to find it happening on SN.
ps: can you be less stupid some day?
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday August 01 2020, @01:23AM (1 child)
You are entitled to free speech. You are not entitled to an audience or a platform. As we say in the old country, "Khrai sum moar!"
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 01 2020, @06:41AM
See subject: So "that was NOT me posting" https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=37033&page=1&cid=985641#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] which YES, you said when you LIBELED me publicly BEFORE it with YOU saying "So that's a "yes" to schizophrenia/schizoaffective disorder and a "no" to "am taking meds for said disorder" LIBELING ME then...?" per YOUR https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=37033&page=1&cid=982854#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] you stupid pitiful FAKENAME fuck online LIAR piece of fucking SHIT?
OR
Was it when I GOT YOUR REAL NAME & found you are a satanist/anti-god HERE https://redeeminggod.com/sermons/luke/luke_7_36-50/#comment-269796 [redeeminggod.com] also which most ALL you "LEFTIST" LOSER weirdos usually are (which YES, in THIS other exchange "Why do you assume that you finding discussion threads on other sites with me in them will scare me?" quoted from https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=38720&page=1&cid=1028402#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] you DID admit FINALLY to saying it was you - ESPECIALLY AFTER dozens of doctors RECENTLY seconded me on Hydroxychloroquin + Zinc (& Vitamin D3 imo along w/ other things I noted that are anti-viral + antibacterial like RAW GARLIC too)).
Do me a favor - DENY ANY OF THOSE, please & I will continue PROVING YOU ARE A SHITBAG LOSER, devil... as I already DID here https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=38720&page=1&cid=1028211#commentwrap [soylentnews.org]
The TRUE BEAUTY of SATANIST FUCKS like YOU (antigod assholes)? TRUTH & FACT DESTROYS LIBELOUS DEVILS LIKE YOU - just like I did you & OTHER AHOLES who doubted what I wrote on what is NOW PROVEN TRUE by DOCTORS, admitted in mainstream media etc. (as I showed in those links' exchanges above easily) & especially LATELY by DOZENS of doctors (I have proof from pros - NOT LIBEL like you did to me PUBLICLY & I can still FRY YOU FOR IT FUCKER, live in fear fuck) MINUS any psych pros backing you.
SAY 1 THING, YOU STINKING LIBELOUS FUCK & I will CONTINUE LEVELLING YOU PUBLICLY with facts - not libel as you tried on me, stupid "Marissa von DUMBO", lol - please, say 1 thing & the BEATING on you, PUBLICLY will continue in this thread where you will have a HELL of a TIME "downmod burying it" via downmod brigades doubtless ONLY yourself via multiple sockpuppet accounts etc. (downodding to HIDE it? FORGET IT vs. me - everyone sees you @ it now, lol - thanks, just as I SAID "your kind", demonic SWINE/antigod LOSERS, always do).
WHY SHOULD YOU FEAR LIBELING ME PROJECTING IT NOW, TRYING TO HIDE IT TOO?
TOUGH HIDING YOU LIED about LIBELING ME, especially via INHERENTLY DAMAGING STATEMENTS libeling me as you did see GOLDWATER RULE below too fuckface CUNT you are (wikipedia proof https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=37033&page=1&cid=985366#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] & you said "No jury or judge would back it" here https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=37033&page=1&cid=985353#commentwrap? [soylentnews.org] Ok - like I said earlier here which you TRIED TO DOWNMOD HIDE as I knew you HAVE to (everyone sees it anyhow) - TRY ME FUCKER - say 1 thing you COWARDLY STUPID LITTLE FUCK & we'll SEE what happens to you, fuckface CUNT you are).
As I said "DO YOU WANT TO BE SUED" for breaking the GOLDWATER RULE? See here again https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=37033&page=1&cid=985329#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] for YOUR (& everyone else's) reference of YOUR LIBEL of myself
APK
P.S.=> Oh, I am going to have a FIELDDAY on YOUR ASS fucker - catching you not ONLY IN LIES above, but also in the fact you are a GODLESS fucking LOSER - come on, say something, question the above where you LIED fucker ("it was not me saying it" but it WAS in those links calling me a nutcase essentially when YOU SAID YOU DID NOT (because it IS grounds for SUING THE LIFE OUT OF YOUR WORTHLESS ASS because your statements are NOT BACKED BY actual psychiatric pros in professional psychiatric grounds LIBELING ME)) - oh, you are NEVER going to LIVE THIS DOWN & believe you me - I am going to MAKE SURE you don't - live with your HUMILIATION loser... apk
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 30 2020, @07:58PM (2 children)
SoylentNews is a centralized platform and it will be destroyed eventually. Everyone will end up on decentralized platforms or give up on free speech. Killing Section 230 just speeds up the process.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday July 31 2020, @06:45PM (1 child)
Anything can be destroyed if we let it. Civilization is not an eternal state of existence. It can be destroyed quickly, too, if we let the totalitarians do it.
Those of us who cherish democracy and pluralistic society must defend them, if we want to keep them. An easy first step in doing that is to stand up to cancel culture bullies.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10 2020, @11:29PM
Actually the easy first step is removing the fascist pricks from power. Then reverse citizen's united, remove the electoral college, and creste new legislation to prevent a future fascist from committing the same crimes as Trump.
Says a lot about you that you think curttailing freedom of speech is the answer. Even the ACLU defended the KKK, you're just another totalitarian asshole gaslighting people with your false sense of righteousness.
(Score: 2) by slinches on Thursday July 30 2020, @09:35PM
SoylentNews editors do exercise editorial control of the stories that are posted. Although, the comments are not moderated by the administrators or editors at all. So any of the proposals so far wouldn't really impact this site unless the editors posted the offending material to the front page.
Of course that's all moot, really. If someone with an expensive lawyer wanted to get Soylent shut down (legally justified or not), they could sue and tie things up in the courts, forcing the legal defense costs to be high enough that a subscription drive couldn't raise the funds.