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Politics
posted by martyb on Saturday November 07 2020, @07:10PM   Printer-friendly

Fox News (among many other outlets[*]) is reporting: Biden wins presidency, Trump denied second term in White House:

Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden has defeated President Trump, denying him a second term after a bitter campaign and dramatic, prolonged vote count in battleground states that sparked a flurry of lawsuits.

The Fox News Decision Desk projected Saturday that Biden will win the state of Nevada and the commonwealth of Pennsylvania, giving the former vice president the electoral votes he needs to win the White House.

[...] "I am honored and humbled by the trust the American people have placed in me and in Vice President-elect Harris," Biden said in a statement. "In the face of unprecedented obstacles, a record number of Americans voted. Proving once again, that democracy beats deep in the heart of America."

He added: "With the campaign over, it's time to put the anger and the harsh rhetoric behind us and come together as a nation."

Biden's campaign announced that the president-elect and Harris, his running mate, will speak at an event in his hometown of Wilmington, Delaware at 8 p.m. ET.

Joseph Biden would become the 46th President of the US; U.S. Senator Kamala Harris of California, the 49th Vice President.

Also at: NY Post, CBS News, ABC News, CNN, CNBC, and USA Today.

IMPORTANT: There are still votes to be counted, a recount has been requested in one state, and there are numerous court challenges launched by the Trump campaign. Further, nothing is official until the actual vote by the Electoral College.

See Also:


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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Saturday November 07 2020, @07:38PM (58 children)

    by hemocyanin (186) on Saturday November 07 2020, @07:38PM (#1074224) Journal

    The sooner we accept the outcome and work together ...

    Dominion Software.

    Trump Accountability Project.

    If you think everything is going back to normal with Biden -- exporting jobs and starting wars around the world -- you are probably right. If you think this country is coming together after the blatantly corrupt election process, especially with the woke regressive left running the show, then you're living in fantasy.

    Starting Score:    1  point
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    Extra 'Insightful' Modifier   0  

    Total Score:   1  
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 07 2020, @07:56PM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 07 2020, @07:56PM (#1074230)

    There is nothing stopping Trump from nuking North Korea on hist last morning. Then Trump says "see you!!"
    Or sales Florida to Cuba for a box of cigars,

    Yeah, right nothing will go wrong.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 07 2020, @08:38PM (7 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 07 2020, @08:38PM (#1074265)

      I imagine the prez can't just authorize a strike for literally no reason and he would be stopped. POTUS makes the final decision, but not in a vacuum.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 07 2020, @09:23PM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 07 2020, @09:23PM (#1074308)

        Have you seen inside the head of a "Stable Genius"?
        You give him too much credit.

        And yes he wanted to buy Greenland... First it is green like golf course. Second if climate warming... IT WILL BE GREEN! And got the land cheap.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Reziac on Sunday November 08 2020, @03:02AM (5 children)

          by Reziac (2489) on Sunday November 08 2020, @03:02AM (#1074516) Homepage

          Greenland has a shitload of natural resources. It would have been on par with the Alaska purchase.

          --
          And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
          • (Score: 2) by captain normal on Sunday November 08 2020, @04:14AM (4 children)

            by captain normal (2205) on Sunday November 08 2020, @04:14AM (#1074544)

            Except that we would have given up Puerto Rico for the deal. Let me see now: warm tropical climate and excellent rum for ice and snow and maybe a few precious gems and maybe some oil. hummm...I'l take PR any time.
            And did I forget some of the best ocean fishing on the planet.

            --
            Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts"- --Daniel Patrick Moynihan--
            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Immerman on Monday November 09 2020, @04:47AM (2 children)

              by Immerman (3985) on Monday November 09 2020, @04:47AM (#1075007)

              Greenland would have to be crazy to sell, and we'd have to be crazy not to buy if Puerto Rico was a significant part of the price.

              PR is a tiny tropical pebble, likely to be almost uninhabitable before the century, if not underwater, with only modest strategic value as a convenient foothold for maintaining our military influence over South America

              Greenland is 155x as large, rich in mineral resources, poised to become a new temperate zone, strategically located to provide a strong claim to rich Arctic oil fields and shipping lanes, and would provide immense strategic value in any future conflicts with Europe, Russia, or Canada. And if we cross the tipping point to a hothouse Earth, tensions are are likely to be high for several centuries.

              • (Score: 2) by captain normal on Monday November 09 2020, @06:28PM (1 child)

                by captain normal (2205) on Monday November 09 2020, @06:28PM (#1075263)

                1-Greenland is a territory of Denmark, and they are sure to drive a hard bargain.
                2-PR is not a coral reef. It is a volcanic island with mountains over 1000 km high. If it were to flood, you could say goodbye to Florida, most of Georgia, Alabama and petty much all of Mississippi and Louisiana as well as a huge chunk of Texas (say goodbye to Houston and Dallas). The whole Mississippi River Valley would be an inland sea. Not to mention most of the eastern seaboard...Washington DC, Philadelphia, New York, Boston etc. Audios to Chicago, Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland as well as Los Angles, Most of San Francisco, Portland and Seattle. But it's not going to happen in your lifetime, not your kids liftimes, or grand kids, or their grand kids.
                3-Are you expecting conflicts (war) with Europe and Canada? Maybe there will be conflicts with Russia, but Alaska (of course with out Anchorage and the North Slope) is closer to Russia than Greenland even though proximity does not seem to make much difference in modern warfare.

                --
                Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts"- --Daniel Patrick Moynihan--
                • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Monday November 09 2020, @11:25PM

                  by Immerman (3985) on Monday November 09 2020, @11:25PM (#1075385)

                  1) Like I said, they'd have to be crazy to sell, but if they sold so cheap that PR was a big part of the price, we'd have to be crazy not to jump on it.

                  I'd say war with Canada is a distinct possibility. As trigger-happy as the US government is, what do you expect will happen when our breadbasket goes to hell, while Canada's tundra becomes warm and fertile?

                  Europe will probably be too busy fighting each other, but no telling what will happen if political stability collapses. And while Alaska is closer to Russia's borders, it's close to the empty ass-end, most
                  of the interesting stuff is likely to happen in the more densely populated West. Plus, having control of two sides of the ocean would be a major strategic asset for controlling access.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:05AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:05AM (#1076480)

              Except that we would have given up Puerto Rico for the deal.

              Nobody will tow Puerto Rico away. It's an island, not a floating barge needing a captain. It'll always be there for you.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Saturday November 07 2020, @10:50PM

      by Grishnakh (2831) on Saturday November 07 2020, @10:50PM (#1074370)

      I think you meant "selling Florida to Cuba", because otherwise your sentence doesn't parse.

      Anyway, that still makes no sense. Trump has no such power on his own. Congress might be able to sell Florida to Cuba, after getting the President to sign it, and also having it somehow get past the Supreme Court. I imagine the legal challenges would be huge. Personally, I'd love to sell southern Florida to Cuba: it's going to be largely underwater in a century anyway, and we should build a wall to keep FloridaMan (and his buddy Trump) in southern Florida and out of the rest of America. But I don't think it's going to happen.

      I don't believe the President can unilaterally order a nuclear strike either. I'm pretty sure the DOD would stop that: there's numerous levels of command there, and while the military has been sitting back while Trump has made a fool of himself these last 4 years, that doesn't mean they're going to blindly obey an order that would set off WWIII. Heck, even if it were technically illegal to disobey such an order, they could do so, place Trump under arrest, and wait for Biden to be sworn in, at which time they'd surely be pardoned.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 07 2020, @08:56PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 07 2020, @08:56PM (#1074283)

    You can shut up now, fucking astroturfer. Unless you want to keep working for free, because the Trump money flow will soon dry out.

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 07 2020, @09:14PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 07 2020, @09:14PM (#1074300)

      Salty in victory. Gotta love it.

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @12:26AM (45 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @12:26AM (#1074434)

    Huh? Trump didn't do anything to stop the exporting of jobs or the wars we're already in. He could have ended the wars, but he didn't.

    If you think this country is coming together after the blatantly corrupt election process

    The election process that Trump tried (and is trying) to sabotage? He first tried sabotaging the USPS, and then constantly cast doubt on absentee ballots all the while. So, Trump doesn't support a fair election process.

    • (Score: 0, Troll) by hemocyanin on Sunday November 08 2020, @12:48AM (25 children)

      by hemocyanin (186) on Sunday November 08 2020, @12:48AM (#1074447) Journal

      I look forward to the new war in Syria, Comrade. Glad to be on the right side of history.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @02:58AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @02:58AM (#1074515)

        Don't be a fool

      • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Sunday November 08 2020, @06:38AM (9 children)

        by deimtee (3272) on Sunday November 08 2020, @06:38AM (#1074586) Journal

        As the AC says, they won't be going into Syria. They'll be going into Iran.

        --
        If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @09:35AM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @09:35AM (#1074607)

          C'mon! Dick "Dick" Dick Cheney is on his second decade on a stolen young man's heart, and his daughter does not qualify for a Wyoming fishing license for another two years, so the chance of the "Projection for aNew Amercian Centoblast" taking over again, is rather slime. Wolfowitz is still trying to get oral sex, so actual military action is not in his portfolio. And The most Clinton ever did, was a cruise missile attack on Al Quaida bases in Afghanistan, which is about what Trump did in Syria. So what was your point, again? If Trump attempts to flee to any country, we should declare a hot pursuit, legal under the current laws of armed conflict? Or, are you just an asshole Republican warmonger? Reagan: Grenada. Bush, GW, Panama. Clinton? Not so much. GW? Afghanistan, Iran, Somalia, and Florida. Republicans are less invasive? Not. Eisenhower: Honduras, Nicaragua, Guatamala, El Salvador. And, a left over, Cuba. Yeah, Trump is only like that because of bone spurs and being traumatized by a Miltiary Academy his father sent him to, after he caught him with a switch-blade. True! Look it up.

          • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Sunday November 08 2020, @01:25PM (4 children)

            by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Sunday November 08 2020, @01:25PM (#1074654) Homepage Journal

            With Grenada, the US was invited in by its head of state.

            • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday November 09 2020, @02:05AM (3 children)

              by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Monday November 09 2020, @02:05AM (#1074943)

              Grenada's head of state was dead when America invaded. [wikipedia.org]

              The overthrow of a moderately socialist government by one which was strongly pro-communist concerned the administration of US President Ronald Reagan.

              No surprises there then.

              Reagan claimed the new airport runway could be used by the Soviets to refuel military aircraft heading to Central America, despite that making no sense, and also being a lie.

              • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Monday November 09 2020, @03:58AM (2 children)

                by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 09 2020, @03:58AM (#1074979) Homepage Journal

                Grenada's head of state was its governor general. As such, he's the one with the right to call elections, but the government used its usurped power to prevent the election.
                That's when he (in exile) called on the US to invade.

                • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday November 09 2020, @08:28PM (1 child)

                  by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Monday November 09 2020, @08:28PM (#1075309)

                  It took me a little while, but you're right:

                  ...Scoon, acting through secret diplomatic channels, asked the United States and other Caribbean nations to intervene and depose the Coard government. He was well within his rights to do so, acting under the reserve powers vested in the Crown. After Coard was made aware of this, he placed Scoon under house arrest, but Coard himself was deposed by Austin on 19 October,

                  Reagan took very little convincing as he was always happy to kill some Communists. Margaret Thatcher was pissed off however. Not that Reagan cared what she thought.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Sunday November 08 2020, @07:23PM (2 children)

          by Thexalon (636) on Sunday November 08 2020, @07:23PM (#1074777)

          Not likely: Towards the end of Obama's administration, the US secretary of state John Kerry had done a lot to cool down tensions between the US and Iran, and Joe Biden was working in that White House helping him do that. Both Biden and the Iranians know that doing so worked out just fine for both sides of that. The people who got butthurt about the US *not* attacking Iran were the Israelis and the Saudis, but their interests shouldn't be driving US foreign policy.

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
          • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday November 11 2020, @06:01AM (1 child)

            by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday November 11 2020, @06:01AM (#1076075)

            The people who got butthurt about the US *not* attacking Iran were the Israelis and the Saudis, but their interests shouldn't be driving US foreign policy.

            Republican voters completely disagree with you. Defending Israel at all costs, no matter what Israel does, seems to be one of the Republican Party's platform planks.

            • (Score: 3, Informative) by Thexalon on Wednesday November 11 2020, @08:21PM

              by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday November 11 2020, @08:21PM (#1076288)

              For the Republican base at least, it's not really "defend Israel no matter what Israel does". The real story there is that they want Israel to conquer the remainder of what they believe are the Biblical borders Israel and have all Jews move there, because that's a pre-requisite for the Second Coming of Jesus (in which all those Jews will be slaughtered and sent to Hell). And barring that, the Republican base also wants Israel to just kill as many Muslims as they can because they think all Muslims are evil and need to be killed.

              A lot of this was also motivating the Republican base's support of the Iraq War. From their point of view, 800,000 dead Iraqi civilians is a good start.

              --
              The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 3, Informative) by PiMuNu on Sunday November 08 2020, @10:23AM (13 children)

        by PiMuNu (3823) on Sunday November 08 2020, @10:23AM (#1074621)

        Bush sr and jr invaded Afghanistan and Iraq (twice). Don't blame the lefties!

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by deimtee on Sunday November 08 2020, @11:47AM (6 children)

          by deimtee (3272) on Sunday November 08 2020, @11:47AM (#1074633) Journal

          Nobody is blaming the lefties. They are blaming the MIC, which both USA parties are now kowtowing to. I didn't like him, but Trump was the last politician who wasn't controlled by them. I fully expect that within two years the USA (and lapdogs like us in Oz) will be invading Iran.

          Not happy Jan.*

          *https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2akt3P8ltLM

          --
          If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @03:57PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @03:57PM (#1074706)

            > They are blaming the MIC, which both USA parties are now kowtowing to. I didn't like him, but Trump was the last politician who wasn't controlled by them.

            Try a search for:
            Trump connections to military industrial complex

            The pattern I see is typical Trump lies on the surface, but plenty of connections slightly behind the curtain. For example,

            How Trump Got Played By The Military-Industrial Complex
            https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-military-industrial-complex_n_5f89cbbcc5b69daf5e12d23b [huffpost.com]

            • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Sunday November 08 2020, @10:13PM

              by deimtee (3272) on Sunday November 08 2020, @10:13PM (#1074850) Journal

              The fact that he was "played by them" would indicate that he was not one of them. There is a difference between a politician doing deals to locate pork in key states and someone who would kill thousands to millions of soldiers and Iranians for profit.

              --
              If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
          • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday November 09 2020, @02:09AM (2 children)

            by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Monday November 09 2020, @02:09AM (#1074946)

            America is not invading Iran, with or without help from Australia.

            Iran is nothing like Iraq. Any president that asked the joint chiefs or whoever to get a plan going would be talked out of it.

            • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Monday November 09 2020, @02:54AM (1 child)

              by deimtee (3272) on Monday November 09 2020, @02:54AM (#1074959) Journal

              I hope AU and NZ don't go, but with or without us I expect the yanks to.
              The neocons want to. The Israelis want them to. The Saudis want them to. Trump didn't want to start a war, and his unexpected win over Clinton derailed the MIC's plans. I expect Biden to go along with them.

              "Anyone can go to Baghdad; real men go to Tehran."

              --
              If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
              • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday November 09 2020, @08:16PM

                by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Monday November 09 2020, @08:16PM (#1075307)

                Trump didn't want to start a war...

                That seems to be largely true, which is good.

                I still think wiser heads will prevail and the US will not invade Iran, because it would be worse than Vietnam, and the result would be the same, and the military will be well aware of that.

                New Zealand would definitely not send troops, and I don't think Australia would either.

          • (Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Monday November 09 2020, @09:02AM

            by PiMuNu (3823) on Monday November 09 2020, @09:02AM (#1075069)

            > I look forward to the new war in Syria, Comrade.

            My mistake - I took Comrade to be a reference to communism, as in

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comrade [wikipedia.org]

            but I could have been over-interpreting.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by hendrikboom on Monday November 09 2020, @04:02AM (5 children)

          by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 09 2020, @04:02AM (#1074981) Homepage Journal

          The first invasion of Iraq was under UN auspices to liberate Kuwait, which had just been invaded by Iraq. Bush withdrew when this mission was accomplished because
              (1) he had no UN mandate to go further
              (2) There was no viable exit plan if he *had* gone further.

          The second Bush, presumably to outdo his daddy, went and did the second invasion, which got mired in exactly the way the first Bush had predicted.

          -- hendrik

          • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday November 09 2020, @08:15PM (4 children)

            by Thexalon (636) on Monday November 09 2020, @08:15PM (#1075306)

            The second Bush, presumably to outdo his daddy, went and did the second invasion, which got mired in exactly the way the first Bush had predicted.

            I think it's significant that the key people who were involved in making the Iraq War happen (Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Powell) were all involved in the Gulf War as well. And I don't consider it an accident that the most hawkish of the lot were the guys that had never gotten anywhere near actual combat before. So I don't think it was W trying to outdo his daddy as much as the guys behind desks who like to get people killed halfway around the world getting mad that the Gulf War didn't end with a complete conquest of Iraq.

            --
            The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
            • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:09PM (3 children)

              by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:09PM (#1076552) Homepage Journal

              I have read that the day the second Bush took office he asked his advisors, "Can't we do something about Iraq?"

              • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday November 12 2020, @02:19PM (2 children)

                by Thexalon (636) on Thursday November 12 2020, @02:19PM (#1076576)

                More damning is the document Rebuilding America's Defenses [cryptome.org], written by the Project for a New American Century, a pro-war group that included Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld. Released in the year 2000, before Bush had become president and well before the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Which among other things suggests attacking Iraq the moment there's some sort of national crisis.

                --
                The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
                • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday November 12 2020, @04:54PM (1 child)

                  by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @04:54PM (#1076627) Homepage Journal

                  It's a very interesting document, but I don't see where it suggests "attacking Iraq the moment there's some sort of national crisis". The closest I see to it is this quote, from the section "Guarding the American security perimeter today – and tomorrow – will require changes in U.S. deployments and installations overseas."

                  In the Persian Gulf region, the presence of American forces, along with British and French units, has become a semipermanent fact of life. Though the immediate mission of those forces is to enforce the no-fly zones over northern and southern Iraq, they represent the long-term commitment of the United States and its major allies to a region of vital importance. Indeed, the United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein. In East Asia, the pattern of ...

                  Perhaps I just haven't found that advice, or perhaps it's in another document?

                  -- hendrik

                  • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday November 12 2020, @06:42PM

                    by Thexalon (636) on Thursday November 12 2020, @06:42PM (#1076680)

                    Once you take that out of bureaucracy-speak, what they're saying is that they want to control the Persian Gulf region (which, at the time meant replacing both Iraq and Iran with US-friendly governments), and they want to "resolve" the conflict with Saddam Hussein at first opportunity. Guys like this like to use technical-seeming language to advocate for monstrous acts, because it helps disguise what they're doing.

                    --
                    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by qzm on Sunday November 08 2020, @04:20AM (6 children)

      by qzm (3260) on Sunday November 08 2020, @04:20AM (#1074545)

      He pulled out troops from all over the middle east, and started to get actual agreements between countries.
      Unlike Mr Peace Prize before him, who increased the troops and drone bombed weddings..

      He also tightened up H1B rules hugely - probably one side of why all the big tech firms (who hate paying going rate wages..) are so against him.

      You may not like him, but the fact that he actually DID things is hard to argue.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @09:08AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @09:08AM (#1074604)

        The most things.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @09:36AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @09:36AM (#1074608)

          I mark them troll, when they lie, since we have no mendacity mod.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @11:49PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @11:49PM (#1074897)

        He pulled out troops from all over the middle east, and started to get actual agreements between countries.

        And yet we're still in the 7+ wars overseas that we were in when he came into office. He could have pulled us out, but he didn't. Obama also played with the troop levels; that means nothing.

        He also tightened up H1B rules hugely - probably one side of why all the big tech firms (who hate paying going rate wages..) are so against him.

        And we also saw massive numbers of jobs exported under his administration. That never stopped.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by PartTimeZombie on Monday November 09 2020, @02:20AM (2 children)

        by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Monday November 09 2020, @02:20AM (#1074950)

        Drone strikes make everyone look bad, so let's not talk about them, ok? [bbc.com]

        Like everything about Trump, what he said he did was probably a lie.

        You may not like him, but the fact that he actually DID things is hard to argue.

        What he DID was play golf. A lot of golf, and you should be angry about the amount of money that cost you. [trumpgolfcount.com]

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @12:40PM (11 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @12:40PM (#1074644)

      Sadly, not starting any new wars makes him a better President than any of the 21st century. For all the moaning about his covid response, he's probably still caused fewer deaths than either Obama or W.

      Literally, the only reason he doesn't appear to have been reelected is that he didn't lean in hard enough on the populist tones he struck in 2016. The people look at Trump and his antics, including the covid-19 response, and were still eh not sure which way to go. That's a damning indictment of how horrible Biden is going to be. The racist moron that wrote the crime bill and just expected various people of color to show up to vote for him without doing any work at all to earn those votes and just assumed that the left wing would show up to vote for him despite the fact that he was planning to stock his entire cabinet with Republicans.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @04:36PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08 2020, @04:36PM (#1074724)

        Trump had dropped more bombs than Obama, and Obama dropped more than Dubya etc as nauseum.

      • (Score: 2) by Mykl on Sunday November 08 2020, @09:42PM (4 children)

        by Mykl (1112) on Sunday November 08 2020, @09:42PM (#1074835)

        For all the moaning about his covid response, he's probably still caused fewer deaths than either Obama or W.

        The entire Vietnam War claimed 58,300 US lives. COVID has already racked up over 230,000 in the US in the past 9 months. Only a fool would claim that every COVID death is Trump's fault, however conservative estimates place the number of deaths that could have been avoided if the US followed the same basic procedures as many other Western countries at approximately 90%. On that measure it's worth "moaning" about Trump's COVID response, considering it's killed 2-3 x Vietnam's body count of US soldiers.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 09 2020, @03:01AM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 09 2020, @03:01AM (#1074962)

          The entire Vietnam War claimed 58,300 US lives.

          The Vietnam war killed an estimated 1,353,000 people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties [wikipedia.org]

          Of course, brown and yellow lives don't matter do they? And you call republicans racist.

          • (Score: 4, Informative) by Mykl on Monday November 09 2020, @06:08AM (2 children)

            by Mykl (1112) on Monday November 09 2020, @06:08AM (#1075028)

            Of course, brown and yellow lives don't matter do they? And you call republicans racist.

            Actually that was my exact point - brown and yellow lives don't matter to Republicans (and now it seems Democrat lives don't matter to them either).

            But let's play your game anyway. Vietnam lasted for 10 years, so let's average 135,300 lives per year lost of all colors. That's 100,000 less per year than have been lost to COVID in the US alone, and we're only 9 months in.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 09 2020, @01:23PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 09 2020, @01:23PM (#1075130)

              "The entire Vietnam War claimed 58,300 US lives."
              You are the one claiming that only US lives matter.
                Even if only by inference you are claiming that the other 1,295,000 people killed don't matter.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday November 09 2020, @01:36PM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 09 2020, @01:36PM (#1075132) Journal

              Actually that was my exact point - brown and yellow lives don't matter to Republicans (and now it seems Democrat lives don't matter to them either).

              I have to agree. You're the only one making that point.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by hendrikboom on Monday November 09 2020, @04:05AM (3 children)

        by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 09 2020, @04:05AM (#1074982) Homepage Journal

        What Trump failed to do was drain the swamp.

      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday November 09 2020, @09:35PM

        by Thexalon (636) on Monday November 09 2020, @09:35PM (#1075349)

        Sadly, not starting any new wars makes him a better President than any of the 21st century. For all the moaning about his covid response, he's probably still caused fewer deaths than either Obama or W.

        Assuming we're making presidents all directly responsible for US military casualties during their presidency: There were a total of approximately 49,000 US combat deaths in the last 2 decades. Most of them were during the George W Bush administration due to him starting 2 wars. According to this Congressional Research Service report [fas.org], Obama's military deaths was highest in 2009 and declined throughout his presidency. Under Trump, military deaths went up shortly after he entered office and remained higher than they had been in 2016.

        And if you're talking about the civilian casualties in the areas where the US is fighting: According to the UN [un.org], there have not been significant differences in civilian casualties in Afghanistan between Obama and Trump. If you look at Iraq [iraqbodycount.org], the Obama administration killed approximately 60,000 civilians there, which is definitely more than the 19,000 or so killed under Trump, but it's also worth noting that under the Obama administration there was a war between Iraq and ISIS with Iraq getting significant support from the US and it would be pretty easy to argue that without US action ISIS casualties would have been higher, whereas by the time Trump took over ISIS was mostly a non-threat. As for Yemen, there have been substantially *more* US drone strikes there under Trump than under Obama.

        Even if you add all those up, and pretend that Trump didn't kill anybody overseas, Obama's casualties abroad still come in under the 240,000 or so Covid deaths in the US alone. And you could also make an argument that Trump's Covid (non-) response influenced similar decisions from other governments such as Brazil and the UK, which has also killed more people.

        So I'm going to have to rate this "dubious".

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.